You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - What Makes This Album Great: Nancy Wilson / Cannonball Adderley

Episode Date: April 25, 2024

In this installment of our "What Makes This Album Great" series we take a look at Nancy Wilson / Cannonball Adderley. Let us know in the comments what you would score this album!Unlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

So good. But one man's dream. The best. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear podcast. Jazz Explore. Explore today from Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJazz.com.

Start the free trial. Yes. People are loving the free trial. Well, it's a free trial, Peter. It's free 99. It's the greatest price ever. I know, but they're loving what they're getting there. We're so excited about this.

It's opening it up to so many new folks. And what a great community we have over there. It's pretty incredible. It's pretty incredible. So what are we talking about today? Well, we are going, we're delving back into what I think is kind of a little bit of a hit for us now. It's definitely a hit. Yeah, the new feature, what makes this album great is a hit.

And credit to you, Peter, begrudgingly credit to you. This was your idea. No, it's always a group effort. But I mean, this is, it makes sense that it's a hit because it's like one of the funnest things to do gathering around this music is talking about, I mean, a lot of times. And, you know, we may get into some controversial records at some point. I don't think this week is one. There's so many good records to listen to. I know.

And even great. But we will probably get to the point where some people are like, ah, that record's okay, but it's not great. I do. We got a suggestion that might be controversial, actually, which is our 10th category, is it better than kind of blue? We might consider tweaking that when we get there. I have an idea.

I have an idea to make it less. We got to talk about it today? Yeah, we can talk about it. Okay, good, good. So before we get going, a reminder of what our categories are, we have this broken down into 10 categories. Bespoke categories. Yeah, bespoke categories.

Sure. 10 bespoke categories, each one worth 10 points, starting with playing, vibe, compositions, sound, sequence, cover art, title, lore, snobometer, and is it better than kind of blue? Yes. Oh, and so number, oh, it's the kind of blue one you want to tweak. I think I want to tweak that one. And this is actually a suggestion from one of our listeners. Okay. So we take suggestions. We don't always adhere to them, but we're always interested in them. Definitely interested in them. Okay, so today we are listening to, um, Nancy Wilson and Cattleball are Atterley.

One of the greatest records. One of my favorite jazz records. I know one of your favorites. 100%. You know, several people in my family that are not musicians, but are huge music lovers, love this record. Yes.

But not just several. Millions of people around the world. I mean, this is like, to me, I'm going on a little bit of a limb here. And I'm not the skinniest gentleman. So when I go out on a limb, I have to balance myself. There's some jeopardy going to happen. There's a little jeopardy.

I'm going on a limb and say that it doesn't get any better than this. Oh, yeah. Well, okay. Strong words already from the start. Whether or not the scoring will reflect it, that'll be interesting because I've never really analyzed it in such a, like to me, this is such a viscerally enjoyable record. Agreed. It's such a joyful record.

And I think it's because you have so many, and we'll talk about that with the instrumentation. I mean, basically what we've got here is the cannonball, cannonball Adderly sextet of the early 60s, the legendary group, the dialed in, locked in group. of Cannibal and Nat Adderly, of course, the brothers on trumpet and saxophone. And then Joe Zavinole on piano, Lewis Hayes on drums, Sam Jones on bass, really probably one of the best rhythm sections. I mean, we talk about PC, Philly Joe, solid rhythm section. Louis-A. Sam Jones. Legendary.

Great, great, great rhythm section here. Great working quintet. And then you're layering in a young superstar in the making, amazing vocalist and musician Nancy Wilson. Incredible. Yeah, and then what I think is just a fantastic record. So how old was Nancy Wilson when she recorded this? Because she was pretty young, right? She was young. She was young.

This came out in 61? 62. Recorted in 61. And she was born in 37. 37. So that would make her 25. 24, 25. Yeah. Very cool.

And I mean, Nancy Wilson, an incredibly attractive voice, an incredibly attractive person. I got a chance to know her. I played with her one time. and actually lucky that was very lucky I played with her one tune one time she was a lovely person

just just a bright light as her voice her personality is like her voices you know and she had such a mature like reading

of these great songs and some of them like remain let's listen to a little bit of this let me ask you something okay with this interest you sir okay

wish on you it's just the greatest one of the greatest moments in music Why I'm so in love Get out of town One of the great entry, vocal entries for sure No one else in this world

The way she's Playing with pitch on that So that was one of the best vocal entries And background trumpets And now one of the best saxophone entries Run away If I were wise I'd run away

So amazing. But like a fool in love. If I were wise, I'd run away. Yeah. And where you say. Fantastic tune, fantastic lyric. Buddy Johnson. Yeah.

But I mean, such. I'm starting to score already because it's just so good. Yeah. But I mean, you know, Nancy Wilson's funny, 25, 24 years old. Like the maturity of her reading of this song, like the phrasing and the way, like her pitch is so good. But she's going in and out of the pitch, even from the. beginning. And then when she hits that pitch right on, it's so satisfied. Like she doesn't, there's a way of singing this that I know she could

have done even then where it's just like the pitch is right at the middle every note, but it wouldn't have that personality. And that's a very mature thing for a vocalist to have. I mean, it's like, it's the presence of an older person's combined with the vibrancy of a young woman's thing. I mean, it's, it's extraordinary. Am I overstating it? I don't think so. I mean, no, this is one of the cannons. And Cannonball's playing on this.

Okay. I'm not going to get, no, yeah, I'm going to get ahead of it here. How far are you going out? Let's start with playing. Okay? Yeah. I'm going to go, well, we already listen to some with the quintet as well. I'm going 10 out of 10 on playing.

I'm going 10 out of 10. Even if I'd only heard that, those first, you know, up to the bridge on this. Every musician in the band is a 10 out of 10. Yeah. All of them. And there was some stuff like Joe Zavinole, like the comping on that. Sam Jones, that line. I love this era of Joe Zovinole, by the way. I love his playing with Cannon Ball's band. And this rhythm section of Sam Jones and Louis Hayes is one of my favorite combinations.

And then, of course, the Adderly Brothers. And then of course Nancy Wilson, everybody is a killer. Yeah. And so it is a 10 out of 10. And for playing, I'm going to jump down to some of the Quinn's head stuff. That's 10 out of 10. Lewis Hayes. The swing is. Oh. Relax. Like literally the best quintet playing

you can have. The bounce, the cannibal and that I really had unparalleled. Yeah. They're so tight as well, like that giddling thing, you know?

Get out of here. Get out of here. Yeah, I mean, I think the only other, like, so Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie, maybe not Charlie Parker and Miles Davis quite on this level.

Maybe not. But Charlie Parker and Dizzy, like, different phrasing. Yeah. But I mean, like, that bounce, like, to have that kind of personality with two people playing, I mean, it just doesn't get any better than that. And then, you know, Nancy Wilson's great on this. I'm going to play one of our other tracks later. The weird thing about this record is not weird.

It's really kind of two records, especially the way that they butcher it with the CD. We'll get into that. Yeah. It's a quintet record and it's a sex set record. So there's like Nancy Wilson, Wilson, with the quintet, you know, making the sex set. And then so half of the tracks, there's basically, what is it, six tracks with Nancy Wilson, seven with the unreleased that wasn't on the LP, and then five tracks with just, four tracks with just an instrument.

Five tracks, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so excited. No, you are very excited. Can you do me a favor? Yes. When we do Vibe, can you do this? The Masquerade is over.

I was just thinking the same thing. So we're now going to go to Vibe. Check this out. Okay, first of all, that was a nice chord, Joe Zobinal. Don't shine. They used to shine. I mean, I think anybody who's ever recorded any kind of vocal album, any kind of ballad. This is what I'm shooting for every, like, that's the level that I want to be at.

Every ballad I play. Provide. Exactly. And think about your role, like our roles is pianist, but if you're a drummer, if you're a vocalist. Like, what do you need to bring to the table? Not to do it like them. The masquerade. Can I get a cognac and a cigarette, please?

leave. But really classy ones with the big plastic holder. But I mean the brushes. I'm so is love. Like what do you bring to the table to make the vibe? Your word. Yeah, that's a 10 out of 10 for us.

And Joe Zavinal kind of, I wouldn't say underrated because I heard him do it live and certainly in this era, but like he knew how to change. Not to a change, to adjust to the situation. Like he was a very flexible pianist even at a young age here. I mean, like that kind of accompaniment behind Nancy Wilson. and then with the quintess, I mean, it's great. It's great.

Compositions, Peter. Wait, what you do for five? Are we sharing yet? Oh, yeah. 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10 for five. Yeah. Compositions, there's a lot of great tunes on here.

I'm going to go, compositions nine out of 10. Interesting. I just, even before I heard you say the nine, marked out my nine and went to 10. You went to 10. I was going to do nine at first. Yeah, yeah.

There's some great, there's some great. They're all great tunes, but a couple are not as good as some of the other songs. Were you thinking this one by any chance? Yeah, what is that? That's why I was going to do nine, never will I marry. Yeah, that's right. The lyric maybe, but what they turn it into is that part of the composition?

I guess I'm letting the vibe and the playing. Maybe it is a 10 out of a 10. I know, that's what I'm saying. That's tough. And the arrangement? I'm sticking with nine. There's, I think there's better. There's one more notch above this.

But does Nancy Wilson and really the whole group, is the vibe and the playing on such a high level that they elevate this composition to the other ones? That's why the playing and the vibe is so great. So can we decouple the compositions? Okay, maybe we should. I'm trying to. I'm trying to.

I'm going to go with it. That was my original. But that's a stunning thing. The only other vocalist, I mean, there's many vocalists, I should say, but the one that's coming to mind now is Ella Fitzgerald's ability to transcend. Sometimes, you know, maybe not A-level material, like back and forth with great songs to, like,

jump to it. Maybe not as strong of a composition. and still bring the A game to it. So that's an interesting thing for Nancy Wilson, especially being so young too. Okay, sound. I'm actually going to go with an eight on this. Only because I'm not, I love, oh, God.

You know what? I could go 10 too. I'm going 10. Oh, you're going to say, okay. No, I got to go eight on this. I'm going. Really? Yes.

I'm going 10. Because the piano. It's perfect because it's perfectly mixed and balanced with everything else. It's not perfectly mixed. No, sir. Check this out. Check out on masquerade again at the beginning.

The piano with the rest of the rhythm section with Nancy's vocal, to me, is too... It's too... It's great. But this is what I'm saying. So for this, like with the conversation, don't get fooled by the incredible playing and vibe because that's...

The sound is a lot of this. But to me, again, the piano is not quite... But I think... I'm going nine. I think of its era... Only because of the piano. Of its era... it's a beautifully, beautifully, beautifully recorded album.

And the fact that it hits so hard in all of these things, the fact that we can hear these subtleties in her voice. Even the little... The vocal sound is 10. I'm not even talking about her singing. I'm talking about... To me, everything except for the piano.

But even the piano, I will take this over a lot of different... But 10 is perfection, sir. I think this is a pretty perfect sounding record to me. I wouldn't change a thing about how it's... But no, you would make the piano Just put it a hundred and go home Can we put it a hundred and go home? No, it's not quite, it's not quite

But it's going to be, I think for me it's going to be close I just think, I mean, let me listen one more time Especially with our new updated isn't better than KOPB Even with the little hissing there I don't mind the hissing there I mean the clarity and the warmth There's a little bit of warmth missing with the piano Like the bass I think is perfect

The drums perfect The horns for sure But to me the horns and the vocals Are just utter perfection So when you set the bar that high, I know what you mean. I'm just saying, I'm accounting for a little bit of era in this as well.

In 1961 is when this was recorded. Yeah. And for me, this is, it just sounds amazing. Yeah. Me too. Nine is still amazing. Okay. Sequence I have.

Can I just tell the little story about this first? Okay. And ask you a question. Are we going off the CD or the original LP? Well, this is why I have an eight for the sequence. And I might even go down to a seven, actually. Well, we need to clarify this first, because I don't want us to get off. But this is why, because the sequence is confusing.

because the original LP sequence is not what you're going to see on Spotify. No, but we're going to go by, I would put forth that we go by the original LP sequence. I'm accounting for however we might take this in. A lot of people are going to take this out. No, but we're saying, we're not saying what makes the streaming great. We're saying what makes this album great. It's true. We have to be consistent from album to album.

And the LP sequence is great, and the CD sequence is not as good. But remember last week, or whenever that was, we did Emprian, Imperial Islands? Imperion. Imperial. Imperial. Iles. Islands or Isles? We don't care. See, this is why that title is a seven. No, but we said we weren't going to go by the sequence on the streaming because it had the alternate take early. Remember, you were like, no, no, the album.

So we got to be consistent, sir. Okay, if that's the case, if we're going LP. Because it's not their fault in terms of like how they put this album together. They didn't know there was going to be a CD and a streaming thing. Oh, I hear, I hear. So the LP sequence basically alternates between vocal and instrumental track. Right, which I think is genius. That's why I'm giving it a 10 for sequence. I'm going to go with nine for that thing. Okay. I think I think the feel and it was

interesting because I first experienced this record on CD and I love the record, but it always felt a little weird to me that like you'd listen to all these great vocal tracks and then it kind of broke down. It was like the opposite of the way you'd hear this set. Like if you went to see Nancy Wilson with the with the Adirley brothers quintet, they'd probably play a tune or two and then they'd bring out Nancy Wilson or they might play three tunes and then bring her out. and then they play the rest of the set. And the CD's set up opposite to that. And the streaming is set up opposite that.

The album is set up in a very unique way. You know what? Am I going to go... No, I'm going 10. I'm sticking with my thing. Because I love the way the album sounds and the way that you turn it over. And it's bookended.

So Nancy Wilson's on the first tune and the last tune of the second. I'm going 10. 10 out of 10. Okay. I'm passionate by this. Cover art. Can we maybe...

Caleb for the YouTube folks, we put the cover up here. For me, this is also a 10 out of 10. 10. 10 out 10. I agree. I think it's beautiful. I think they look amazing. Like the, the, it's not, it's kind of like an off white eggshell. Nancy looks a little better than Cannibal. Let's be honest, but yes. It's an eggshell background, but the, no, but the silhouette that Cannonball strikes there with the dark suit and the white or off white silhouette behind him. And that is the most, you know, hats off to his tailor, because that's the most slimming suit I've ever seen. And then the,

the Nancy Wilson and slash Cannonball, the two different colors look amazing. The simplicity of it, This is one of those covers where as soon as you see it, you know what it is exactly. And it's like it captures a lot of the vibe. And even how it works in with the Capitol, the iconic Capitol Records logo, the bounce. For those of you can't say, she's wearing this amazing yellow dress and these yellow heels. And it's like striking against the backdrop. And Kennabell's in a dark suit striking against the backdrop. And they're looking at each other in a way that's very playful.

It's very playful. It's not creepy, which it easily could have been. like Cannibal, like, it's such a sort of great representation of what you hear in the music, the way they play together. She's kind of looking over, she's got her arms crossed and she's looking over her shoulder at Cannonball, and he's holding this horn and kind of smiling at her. I mean, this is the kind of thing like you could have seen, like kind of a Madman, Madison Avenue. It totally is like that. They give him like 10 different mockups and then, you know, John Hamm was like, that's the one. Let's go get some Canadian club whiskey.

It looks awesome. And then look at even the little shadows. Like all that's very intentional. the shadows from both of them. Oh, that's good. Great, great stuff. So that's 10 out of 10. The title, which is Nancy Wilson

slash cannibal out early. I put it as 7, Peter. I originally had it higher. But the more I think about it, with how vibey this album is, they could have probably come up with a more evocative title, something a little more poetic

than just the facts, which there's nothing wrong with the simplicity of just Cannibal, Nancy Wilson, Cannibal Adderley, but it would have been nice, I think, with some kind of more evocative title. So I give it an 8. I agree.

It could have been, I almost went with a 9, but yeah, I was kind of like, but I do feel like what they avoided, which was good, which is a little bit typical from that period too. It's like Nancy Wilson meets the Cannonball Adderley Quintet. Nothing corny like that. Yeah. So I think the slash between it maybe was a little bit.

It's almost like an HTTP colon, colon, slash, like they're ahead of their time with the World Wide Web. Nancy Wilson, Camel. And because of the record, yeah, and I maybe took a little point off because it, it, Nancy Wilson, Canterbury, whereas maybe Canterbury Adderly or Quintetton. Ted or Adderley, but I don't know, like, it's such a meeting of Nancy Wilson with this great group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but, I mean, look, just a little bit. The album's great. The title works great with the album cover. So there's that, too. And then the lore I put at an eight, because there's not much lore around here. That might actually, we might even go lower with that,

but there's not, I mean, she was very young and meeting with this very established band at the time, but there's no, I can't really find any great stories. The only reason the lore gets so high here is because of the lore this albums have since its release. That it's just, you know, very, very high in the canon of not just vocal albums, but jazz albums in general.

Yeah. So I'm actually going with a nine on the lore because of that part, the lore after the fact, which I do think we should include, and plus there could have been stories that maybe we don't know about or whatever. But I think that part of the lore is this sort of meeting

of an established group with the with a great young singer. And also, there was another part of the Lord that I thought, oh, the fact that it went to number 30 on the Billboard charts. That's a good one too, yeah. Which was not unheard of. Like not just the Billboard Jazz charts. No, no, yeah.

This was a hit album. So that's an interesting part of the Lord. To me, that pushed it up, pushed it up a little bit. And the fact that so many people I think during this time, well, I know from some of my family members, my wife's family, this was like one of those records, like a kind of blue, which might have even happened a little later, but like Dave Bruback, take five,

not take five, what's the right name, whatever I always call time out. Time out. Like these records that kind of check a lot of boxes in terms of really cool covers and names, hit the billboard charts, and like if you had a couple of jazz albums and you were classy at home that you'd have this as one of your records.

So to me that pushes up the lore o meter. The snobometer, now this is just, would do jazz snobs like this album. So I put this at an eight, which is not, it's medium high, because most jazz musicians I know love this record.

They love the whole album. album. But I could see some more like, you know, Coltrane heads or fusion heads not digging it because of the sort of like singer aspect of it. But I'm going to put it at 8. Refresh me on the snobometer. So it is. This is the most confusing of it. Do jazz snobs like the record. Do? So like, for instance, like the most snobometer. I would have to go lower then. But I hate that that's going to pull down the overall score of this record. Yeah. I feel like this is a 90snobes. 98, 99, 97's scoring record. Okay, well, let's, maybe we can rethink the snobometer for next week. But maybe, I'm, because I'm definitely compromising on what exactly this means. But I already have an idea of how to revamp a little bit of the K-O-B.

I thought it was Wood on Linda. That's what we said the first week. Yeah, and we revised that right after that. Every week I said, skip Antlin-A. So, would a jazz knob like this record? Depend, not even, not even with how. I think so, too, which is why I put it in an eight. but I do think that there are some jazz snobs

who don't like vocalists and all that stuff. You know what I mean? Who need it to be more outside or something like that. It's a weird snob. You don't like vocalists. There's some jazz snobs that don't like vocalists. I'm giving it a nine.

I mean, because I will slap a snobb that doesn't like this record. Slap a snobbometer. There you go. No, you know what I'm saying with that? We should definitely think about revamping the snobometer and listeners, if you have any suggestions. Because it's not fair like just because Aunt Linda likes this record

that would get a low... Wait, wait, you just said we're not having me do this. No, but that's what I'm saying. That's why the original, I think the original idea of the snobometer would be like, would a snob like it or would the general public like it and then that would get... There might be a way to score this. Well, the typical record that you would say a jazz snobb. First of all, are we

considering ourselves jazz snobs? Or do your listeners snob? I think that's in the eye of the beholder, but yes, I think a lot of people would consider stress... Okay, because I would say that like, what would Kenny G's song... What's it called songburn? That would be very low in the snobomber. Right. So, then this would have to be very high on the snobometer.

I agree. That's why I gave it an eight. Yeah. That's why I gave it an eight. Okay, cool. Like, yeah, something like, you mentioned timeout, that would be way lower on the snobometer because I know a lot of jazz decisions who don't really dig that record.

You know what I mean? That's true. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, speaking of controversy, walk me through how we're going to change this. So we've had this last category. Is it better than Kind of Blue?

Miles Davis is kind of blue. And we've had it be binary. If it is, it's a 10. If it's not, it's a zero. That was actually stupid. It was kind of dumb. It was fun. And we had a suggestion from a commenter in YouTube.

Thanks for this suggestion. You know who you are. That we should actually put this on the scale. So Peter, here's what I'm suggesting. I suggest that we put Kind of Blue is a 9. And we rate this, we rate whatever album we're talking about against Kind of Blue. So it's possible for an album to be better than Kind of Blue by one point because Kind of Blue is very, very, very good, right?

Great, even. But then we don't lose all the points if it's not quite as good or if it's equal to of blue. For instance, for this, I put this at 9, which is equal to kind of blue. And I think it is, I think it holds up to being equal to kind of blue. Interesting. So I have it at 9, but I did put in parentheses 10. It's a 10. Why that? Wait, can we do digital, digital fractions? Can I do 9.5? That's another thing I wanted to bring up. We could do 9.5. I'm going 9.5 on this. Because that's what that means, what I said 9 with a 10. You think it's just a little better than 9 than you know why? Because Nancy Wilson's on it. And to me, everything, I mean, kind of blue, as great as kind of blue is,

I think that the cannonball cannonball adderly, like, they check all the same kinds of box in terms of, it's the same time period, so you can kind of compare it. The rhythm section, the hot take, is just as good, or close. I mean, no, I mean, like, that is... Really? Yeah, on this,

I'm going 9.5, sir. I'm going 9. Okay. I'm going 9. Okay. Okay. Very close, so... Very close. Okay. So, but I like, I do think we should adjust. I appreciate this. Thank you, dear listener. And I do like this idea of not being binary. Because we were getting some, so you're going to have to forgive us some of our earlier.

We might go back and readjust those scores when we come back and do a, and maybe we can have a whole episode on readjust. But we've only done three. So like we're early days here. That's right. Yeah. So, okay. Time to add up our scores and pick our favorite track.

So let's do it. Okay. All right. Why don't you go first? All right. I'll go first. So my total score is a 90. and my favorite track is

Save Your Love for me. Okay. My total score is a 93.5. Decimals have entered the picture. That is a bespoke score for you, my friend. And my favorite track is this entire album. I can't do that, can I? No, man, you got to pick a favorite track.

And now you messed up the flow because Caleb's going to do a ding. Whole album. No, okay, ready? I'm going to do it again. Pick a track. Pick a track. This masquerade is over.

Okay, that's a great track. Yeah. I feel a little weird because by far on Spotify got the most number of plays. For Caleb and the edit, say your score and favorite track. Okay. Total score 93.5. Yeah. So, yeah, that's

exciting. That's a bespoke digital score. We already know the score. My favorite track, this masquerade is over. There we. Well, thank you, Peter. This is a great call. One of the greatest albums ever. Truly. And I think we, now we've

really dialed in the... I think we've got to dial in the snob a meter a little more, but I feel like we've dialed in... Is it better than K-O-B? And that's a good thing. That's a good thing. That's a good thing. And it's our thing. And, you know, dear listeners, we had a couple people in our last episode put their scores. So if you'd like to put your score in there, please do. And also, if you'd like to make a suggestion for what albums you would like to see us review and listen to, please put that in the comments as well. And let us know if you'd like us to review some lesser records or at least lesser records that because I think our plan was to

always bring in records that we love. But that's going to get boring, isn't it? So we need to start reviewing bad records? Not bad. I would just say lesser. Yeah. Well, I don't like this in average records. That's what I'm saying. There's so many great records. Are we keeping this in the A range?

Are we going to... So far, everything's been A plus plus. Yeah. Okay, cool. All right. It's like an F. You'll hear it.