You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - What Note am I thinking of?

Episode Date: March 25, 2022

In this episode of the Run it Back series we take a look at note application, scales, and why certain notes just don't sound right. All About Scale Note Choices5-Note Voicings - #25Why Don't "Pretty" Notes Work in Other Genres?Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

What's up? This is You'll Hear It. This is the Run It Back series with Caleb Kirby. All right. I'm so excited for today's lesson or series of lessons. So the clips I've got today are from three different episodes, all about note application. Now, I usually try to keep it a little bit more broad for these kind of best of run it back series type episodes. But this one, I think, is just going to be a really interesting journey. So note application, this first clip that's coming up here is going to be all about how to apply scales and how to work with modes. And are we thinking about that in real time when we play? Or are we just kind of getting used to the sound of certain scales and modes and applying certain shapes?

I think Adam and Peter do an amazing job of describing the difference between what you think about when you practice versus what you do in real. I was wondering if you could make an episode about the scale modes and their applications. Like, do you think of them about, I want this kind of vibe, so I'm going to use this mode? Or do you let chord changes guide you to which mode you have to use? Or I don't know, if you could just talk a bit about it. Thanks. Nice. Yeah, it's a good question.

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think, well, so I think there's two parts that he's saying, you know, do we do we use the chord changes to guide to which scale to choose and then to make choices within that scale, I think, is part of it? Or do we go straight to what the scale is? And I would say both at different times, you know, depending upon the situation. I think that when you're learning and depending on like where you are in your development, it's very important. to kind of break it down by chord. And then later on it gets a little more advanced when you're looking at maybe whole progressions

and possibly even taking one scale or a couple scales and floating them above that, which is a great thing. But we're working all that in together. And a lot of times it comes down to a stylistic thing and whether, you know, how quickly the chord changes are moving. I mean, if you're going like one, two, one, two, three, four, do-deen, do-deen, do-deen, do-dean.

And each one of those is two beats for a different chord. I'm just all diatonic. Yeah, man. You're not thinking about, I mean, you shouldn't be. Because if you're thinking about a different scale for each one of those, even if you can keep up with that, you're not going to be making choices. No. They're going to be making choices on you. They're going to make choice on you. But, you know, having, I don't know, is that kind of the way you see it?

This is a process. I think that's the important part. And if you don't know what scales go over what chords or what your options are for scales over what chords, you have to learn that first as much as possible. So that you have the language, you know. because at a certain point, once you sort of get to a higher level, you're not thinking about that at all. You're literally just thinking about the sound, the shape, the themes that you're working with, and you have all these options available to you for each chord.

And you're not really even thinking about the chord because you know that sound, that shape. You're literally just dealing with sounds at a certain point. Right. But you can't get those sounds unless you really do the work, practice running the scales over the chords and understanding the differences, between them, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And I think that certain scales, there's the harmonic component to them, you know, that harmonic vibe that they reflect when you play them in certain ways that is so important. You know, we always talk about not just running up and down scales and we don't. It doesn't mean we don't sometimes.

I mean, I know that I will say over like a five chord that's extended maybe for a measure, a couple measures, that's like a big alteration and say I'm using the altered scale over that. I may only play over that and do kind of scale fragments, maybe some shapes and things or whatever. But it almost becomes the choices of how to do that become based upon how I want that tension to come out, which is really a harmonic thing. But I'm using melodic improvisation within that framework. So yeah, I'm not necessarily thinking C altered scale,

but I am thinking of zones and shapes and things that fit into that. And that's a powerful thing. I almost think sometimes, especially in more traditional styles, and I don't mean like totally like beginnings of jazz ragtime traditional. I just mean more like, say, you're playing a solo piano ballad of a standard, that when you get to certain chords, you almost have to do certain scales. Not necessarily one scale. You have choices, and I know we're talking about scale,

note choices within scale, so you have several scales sometimes. But sometimes, depending on what you play before, you only have one really choice of scale. You set yourself up. Yeah. I mean, unless you're a genius. I mean, if you're like Herbie Hancock and you can come up with some other scale

for another like non-cord. Inventing scales on the fly. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, we all do that and try to do that, of course. But I mean, how it sounds is important. And normally that's going to bring more attention in. And so if you're doing that at the right time, then that becomes a good choice.

But you're still within a scale area. And then you're making choices based on, I think more melodic concepts as opposed to just technical scale. Yeah, I guess the answer to Miracost's question is yes. Like you are making choices about the modes, but you're not thinking about it like that, is what we're saying. You're thinking about it in terms of a broader concept.

Now, when you practice this and you're a beginner, you're an intermediate player, you need to practice this thinking about the modes over the chords. Right. No one gets out of here without knowing a little bit of what notes sound good over what chords. That's just, that's what we do. And that becomes a big part of the note choice, I think.

Right. So you know you have the choices of the whole scale. But not all those are the real. right choice. Not all those, and not at that time. I mean, any one of them at some time. There's no, like, bad note for any situation. Right. But how did Miles Davis always pick the most magical note for every situation? You know what I mean? Like, he understood that. And look, the bottom line is, especially when you get into so-called moldo playing and when, when there's a lot of space involved, you know, you're basically looking at the advanced level at the chromatic scale

as being your choice at all times. Because you can, you can figure out how to make that work. Yeah. Okay. Okay. This next clip is all about five note voicings. Now this is like a topic that I find extremely useful from this podcast because Adam and Peter are such good musicians and they're really able to play and describe how they think about simple voicings and how to enhance like a beginner's guide towards chord composition and you know accompanying the melody and just playing comping whatever it may be. This is like some great information. and sounds you can use when you're getting used to coming up with your own five-note voicings.

So what are some sort of, speaking of basic, what are some sort of beginner ones that people can jump on if they maybe don't know these voicings at all? Yeah, well, so I think that the ones that are all-force or all-forth with the triad, kind of second or first inversion on top of the best, and that's going to be your so-what voicings. So you're building up... Well, if we look at that one, you know, we're building up, looking at D-Dorian, just all-force with a major-third on top. Starting at the root. Yeah, starting at the root.

And, you know, the way you can think about it, I love, a lot of times people won't think about this as a triad because it's not root position. But in terms of the function and the sound of it and how we're going to be able to use it and even like kind of move it around, it's very much the triad's important. So what we're looking at is an F major triad,

which of course is the relative major of the D minor where we're dealing. And the reason that's second inversion is just because... So what's great about this voicing too? You have, here you have D. G, C, F, A, like you said, is that's a D minor seven. You can use as in like the sort of Dorian sound. But you can also use it as a B-flat major 13, right?

If the bass player is playing a B-flat in the root, it sounds great. You could also use it as an E-flat, Lydian. You know, those shapes work so well for so many different kinds of chords. And actually, I think typically I kind of use this the most for that B-flat major or for the F-major. Yeah, it's like a F-major. You know, six nine. And then also because then you can get into sort of diatonic movement, even if it's not strictly moving. It's just, and basically it just means, say, everything, if you're on the B-flap major,

and we thought about like a Lydian sound. And we're just moving up stepwise. Beautiful. And then you can open it up with fourths. So all I've done is take that same voice and then gone up to straight force. And then I'm moving diatonically, so I'm going to get some nice, you know, augmented force tritones in there. And these can also work over a straight major,

but a lot of times they don't, I don't know, they don't sound as good. So if I got... So you put in that natural. Yeah. Yeah, that's a little weird. That's okay. That's all right.

Actually sounds kind of good. More I play it. But yeah, but yeah, exactly. So the concept is, you know, these are open force, a little bit of thirds, that kind of a thing. Man, can I piggyback on this voicing and show you one of my favorite five note, two, three voicing.

Yeah, because I invented that one, so go ahead and piggyback. So if we do the same voicing but like a B-flat-6, right? Yeah. You know, let's say you're playing rhythm changes, where it's like B-flat, major seven, a B-flat-6 to like a G-7. I see where you go. I like where you're going. I like our destination.

Well, there's a few things you can do here. So here's our B-flat. This is the same voicing, but just up-a-fourth from what he did. So G, C, F, B-flat, D. And if I want to go to G-7, Yeah, buddy. That's all I do, right? Yep.

And that's some good voice leading there. That's great voice. Now here's another thing. Let's say it's, it's, uh, B diminished, like you're doing this thing. You know? One voice thing I love is, oh by the way, that G7, that was F, B, E, A, D. Yeah, that's straightforward. Starting on F, all white keys fourths.

Now if I take this same G7 voicing, but I flat the nine, so I take that A, Yep. This is a great diminished voicing. This is B diminished, F diminished, D diminished. And look what's right in the middle of that. Check that out. I love this. Yeah.

And you're just moving it chromatically up. And look what's in the middle of that, the three notes. Oh, an E tria. E tria. Second inversion again. You have that G7 flat nine. Yeah. And you're going to always get, I mean, not always, sometimes they don't work,

but you're going to often get some great symmetry. So, I mean, that's the thing I like about the five-note voicing. It's asymmetrical in terms of two and three, of course, because we don't have two and a half fingers in either hand. Yeah, yeah. But you get some nice setups for triads on top, bottom, or in the middle. So here, you know, that's a very well-balanced chord. There's also other, if you want to go sharp 11.

Yeah, yeah. And if you want to start breaking it up, you know, what we've talked about before in terms of voice leading, you can rhythmically break it up. But that's, yeah, that's getting into some. great kind of voice leading without even changing any of the direction. You know, that's a whole other thing we can do with the five-no voicing. Okay, and finally we have a throwback from a speak pipe episode about why pretty notes don't

exactly work in like rock music or popular music. Kind of a vague question, but I think Adam and Peter tackle it really well here. And it actually gets into some other really cool topics about when to use more I guess simplified sounding chord structures versus like adding a lot of texture and depth into the chord voicings that you choose so I really hope you enjoy this this time I have chances to jazz up Christmas songs and have thoughts how come those pretty notes don't fit for most rock songs what's the difference musically or melodically if you agree um so I think you know Christmas songs

songs, it comes in such a variety. I think you've got the ones that are like, you know, chestnuts, which to me is really just like a great standard. It's Mel Tourmet, right? I mean, it's just a beautiful tune with really interesting harmony and stuff. So there's a lot there to, you know, pretty notes, pretty chords, cool harmonic, you know, just like any other kind of standard where you've got these great opportunities to play interesting things around. something that's set there.

Whereas a lot of rock songs, I mean, look, we talk about rock songs. That's a big range there. But a lot of that, it's not giving you as much to use the same kind of a musical imagination we're talking about, right? There's, like, you have to work so much harder to find that. And to me,

it's not even so much about the complexity of the tune. If you were to do like, um, uh, like there's a not a lot to that tune. It's, you know, especially when you take away the lyrics,

it's just kind of, you know, but you check out, you know, Ella Fitzgerald or something singing. It's like they're able to find the nuance in that. Okay, now play that again, but try to hear it. I'm just kidding. Yeah, I'll just, I'll just add here to Noriko that for the sound of a lot of rock tunes, you know, ninths and 13th just don't fit with the sound. of the tune and that's totally cool you know if there if it's more of a triad based or even just seventh

chords things based uh you know that's that's also a sound actually that you can in a language amongst itself i know peter that like you've worked with our mutual friend brian owens a little bit when i play like with his band band right when it's like his stuff and it's straight in that soul music pocket yeah it's like he wants seventh but he doesn't want ninths exactly you know what i mean And so you have to be aware of where those are appropriate and not. It's a whole other thing. And so pay attention sometimes to, you know, how thick your chords can be. You know, if you're playing.

Yeah. I mean, if you talk about like, and I think Stevie Wonder's great when you get into like so-called pop music or rock music is a great reference. Because his music and the way he's played it over the years, like really runs the gamut. So you've got like, you know, I don't know, that's Joe Zavinal. What am I thinking about? What's his bird and born? And hard time. Mississippi.

Yeah. Like, that's a lot of blues in there, but there's not necessarily like Suss or Sharp 13 and all that kind of. So even 13, it's just like... But you've got that... And like, you can hear the way he phrases and sings it. But then something like, you know, that's Stevie tune. The melody is a dominant 13.

It starts on the 13. And it's a half step up. and then minor 11 sharp 11 and this is all stuff that's like within the melody there's just so much there you know yeah it's just so but you got to kind of pick pick where you know the style of what's happening within that so that's what to me makes stevie so unique because he really goes rock blues rnb jazz like all that is encompassed but not always at the same time i love for me i love to see what i can do with triads sometimes too i mean i think there's a the art to that, that, you know, even on a tune like the Christmas song, like how simple can I make things? Not all the time, but sometimes I feel like it's a nice change of pace for me. So something to think about Noreko. All right. Thanks for listening to the YOL here at podcast. This is the run-it-back series with Caleb Kirby. Now remember, if you like listening to this podcast, you got to like and you

get to subscribe. It's sponsored by openstitiojazz.com, where you can find the cool content to build the relationship between you and your instrument. If you're looking for a reference point to find these episodes and listen more in depth, I will have the links in the description, but until next time, happy practicing.