You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - What Peter & Adam Think About The Current State of Jazz - #133

Episode Date: June 12, 2018

In this episode, Peter and Adam discuss the current state of jazz. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Peter Martin. And I'm Adam Manus. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Daily Jazz Advice coming at you. Coming at you right now, in fact, right? Yeah, immediately coming. Oh, we're here. We're back at it.

Man, I missed you. Yeah, it's good to see you, man. I feel like we never do this anymore. That's right. So today we're going to talk about the current state of jazz. Oh, what is the current state of jazz exactly? Well, this is going to be so current that it's going to become out of date tomorrow. So I'm glad you guys are listening to this when you are.

Yeah, that's right. So we're going to talk about who's playing where. this weekend? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, I think, yeah, I mean, the current state of jazz, perhaps we could at least expand it to this year, right? Sure. If not this kind of era.

But what do you think about the current state of jazz? I like where jazz is at. I'm more in the jazz now than I have been in a while, man. It's great. Like, there's so much good stuff coming out. There's good music being made. There's exciting young musicians. It's where it should be.

I think so, too. I mean, I actually, you know, you always hear some people talk about the horrible state of jazz or this is a bad time, this is a bad year. Yeah. And I think that to me there's always so much, so much more interesting music that I hear about from reputable people that I haven't heard that I feel like I can't even keep up with enough of the good stuff. Right. You know, I mean, there doesn't have to be a, you know, Louis Armstrong Hot Fives recording, something that's seminal every year.

There shouldn't be, you know, for an art form to flirt. But I mean, if you have, you know, great live performances, great recordings, great videos now, just interesting things happening, especially like all around the world, to me, that's a very exciting thing. And that shows, you know, the, the, the, not only the tenacity of the music, the musicians, but of the music and the art form in general. I agree. You know, some people are down on the current state of jazz or just where it is. I feel like there's always going to be some kind of nostalgia for when you first really got. into it, you know, or where like, you know, it's never going to be 1959 again. Right. That was that time and this is a whole different thing. It's never going to be 1947.

Like, it's never going to be 1965. It's never going to be 1978. Right. And those were all great eras, but we're living in a time now where it's like... Oh, 78. That's all right. Sunlight. Herbie sunlight.

Oh, yeah, that's good. But, no, you know, all those eras had their own thing. And I think we get nostalgic for maybe, oh, well, It was this popular or whatever. I mean, you know, we talked about in an episode a couple of days ago that, you know, the last David Bowie record had all jazz musicians on it. Like young jazz musicians playing really hip, like modern sounding stuff. Cutting edge, I would say to.

And that says a lot about where jazz is in our cultural perspective than it does even in where like the music itself is, you know, within jazz. But how it's perceived as, I mean, it's perceived as a. hip thing again. And that's good for us. Yeah. And I think that, you know, the, the, the, the music has never been understood at the time for, you know, how interesting and edgy it actually is. I mean, like you talk about 1959, you know, 1947, those things, that, that takes the perspective of looking back on those times. Totally. First of all, those times were not all that great in general for a lot of people. So when we talk about the good old days anyway, but I mean, even specifically within the

music, nobody realized at that time how special it is. You have to have that perspective and even great recordings and stuff. I mean, I've been around long enough now to have been around with some really great recordings were released, but usually most people, including myself, didn't realize how interesting and seminal they were until several years later, if not a decade later. I mean, I think about the Kenny Garrett, what's the record where he has a songbook, you know, that recording with Kenny Kirkland on it. I think it's one of the best records of the 90s. but I was around in the 90s. I was even like, you know, around them and that band and heard them live a few years later.

So I didn't hear it right when it came out. Or maybe I heard it. It was like, oh, that's cool. You weren't feeling it like you are now. Exactly. You know, and I knew it sounded good, but it took a while for it to kind of absorb and a lot of other things happening, whatever. So I think that that's pretty typical with this music in general, you know. Yeah, it's really interesting, right?

Yeah, it makes me. I mean, their whole artists, even like, you know, monk. is more appreciated now, apparently, than he ever was in his own time, his heyday. The records that we love were not as well received as we received them. And I think really the way the so-called music industry and the media industry is set up now is actually better for jazz

because if you think back to the, you know, everything was about the record dropped on this date and you'd go to the record store and they would start playing it on the radio maybe two days before and then you'd have a hit of the summer and everything was timed out. for pop recordings, for the biggest selling, you know, the billboard charts and all this. And then it would be this sort of inevitable fade of the record, usually after a couple weeks.

If it was something special, maybe after a couple months, if it was something super special, maybe a year, you know, like a Michael Jackson thriller or something, where there was just so many hits on it and they spaced it out. But, I mean, that's really not the norm in terms of pop music. So for jazz during that whole era, we always kind of struggled because when a record dropped, first of all, there just wasn't that mass interest. And then there wasn't the ability to be able to absorb. We didn't really have singles usually either, except for maybe for some vocal records or whatever.

But in terms of jazz, it was something that really, in general, is I think created for the listener and accepted by the listener as something timeless. At least that's what we're trying to do. I mean, it's not like we make a masterpiece every time, but I mean, we're trying to make something relevant to today, but that's something that will stand up the test of time.

Yeah. And it's not trendy. So that kind of works against this strict time limit. So I think it's now that things are kind of released at different times and there isn't that old school, you know, things being driven by the radio and stuff really plays in well to jazz artists and that we can kind of release things just as they come out of us and then they can slowly have its beautiful life and hopefully flourish as word of mouth gets around and reviews and all these different kind of things.

and then to kind of become like this slow rolling hit. That's what I always thought about that record songbook, bringing that up again. Kenny Garrett, like that now it sort of acknowledges this really important record, but that took years for that to happen. That's funny, right? Same thing with Black Coals from the Underground,

1985. Sleeper. Yeah. I mean, for me, like, that was a big deal right when it came out, but I think I was the exception to that because I heard that band live and I heard Kenny Kirkland live for the first time

a couple of months before that record came out. So I was like anticipating. You were there with that. I was there with. I wanted to hear. hear that exact thing. Now you can, you know, before recording, you would even come out if you hear something live, which is still a great way to be introduced to music. You can usually go on YouTube and hear some other live concerts. I do that all the time. For sure. It's a lot of fun.

All right, so we kind of talked about the industry, the state of the industry of jazz. But what about the music itself? Oh, who cares about that? To me, you know, so much music that's being made right now, especially by younger musicians, is, I mean, you can really hear the influence of, of, of, of not jazz of styles that aren't jazz on their playing. I was just checking out this week, Logan Richardson's new album. And it's like, I mean, the influences that come through in that record are so amazing. I was thinking about our friend Ulysses Owens, Jr. He was just through town with his project that was, I mean, this is jazz, but like there's

so much coming out of that that's influenced by other music. And that seems to be, it's not a trend, but it's just how, I think it's just how jazz musicians are. That's what happens when you're an improviser is that whatever comes in comes out somehow. Yes. You know what I mean? So it's it's, that's a really fascinating thing right now that's happening for sure. Yeah, I think so. I think it's, I think it's enough of a kind of consolidated movement, if not super organized. But I mean, you're starting to hear it in enough different places, some similarities between the influences that it is sort of a loose movement. And I think it's great. You know, I mean, I know a lot of the old school jazz heads are like it has to have a specific kind of beat to be jazz.

And I just don't really believe that. I think to me, you know, the current state of jazz is great because there's a lot of great sounding music coming out. And to me, that is not strictly attached to one kind of a groove. It's more attached to one sort of mentality and spirit in the music that's really difficult for me. I mean, not being eloquent, nearly eloquent enough to talk about it accurately, other than to say the typical kind of stuff of like freedom and improvisation and and rapport between the

musicians, but mainly just kind of that, that impetus to create something that, you know, is part of the tradition of this beautiful big thing that we call jazz in any part. And we know how diverse that actually is. Whenever you start using the word tradition, people start thinking, okay, it sounds like Lewis Armstrong, the hot five, a hot set. That's just the beginning or not even, that's not even the beginning of the tradition. That's just early part of the tradition. And, you know, people were like, wow, this sounds super revolutionary

the way that they're hitting that backbeat in that. And, you know, what are they doing? You know, I mean, actually, the music wasn't even organized enough then probably to say that. Totally, yeah. There's always been times when people say, like, wow, that's not part.

You play jazz without a tuba? What is crazy? Exactly. You're not going to let the left hand play continual stride? The bass is going to take over. That's not jazz. Yeah. So I think that, you know,

To me, the only barometer is the listenability of it, really. I mean, we talk about the current state of jazz. I mean, we joke about maybe, you know, the way jazz musicians dress now has gone downhill. That's probably happened. But, I mean, look, they're still not paying us to see what we're wearing. That's true. They're coming to hear us. So, I mean, those other things can become cyclical.

But as long as there's, you know, good, I mean, and think about all the great young musicians now. I think that we're kind of at an all-time high. There's so many good players. Yeah. And it's so funny because, like, I came up in that young lions early, when was that early, 90s thing. There's more good players now, maybe. Way more. Like, now is the real young line. We might have had more oak tree suits, but they can definitely play.

I mean, there's just more really good players. There was some great players then, but there's just more of them right now. So, I mean, I think that if you're looking at that being the barometer for the current state of jazz, I think it's great. I like what you said about the spirit of it. It's kind of one of those things where you know where you hear it, right? It's like, how can you say, you know, Herbie's Headhunters doesn't swing? or isn't jazz.

You know, that's obviously jazz. And I mean, those kind of recordings were so great, so influential. I mean, just think about for us how much we listen to those coming up. And now the so-called kids, they still gravitate to those records, the same way we gravitated towards stuff

that was earlier. I mean, I was too young to hit head hunters in real time. So I was looking at that as an old school recording in the 80s. But it's like, or like Robert Glassford's Black Radio. Like you don't where you hear it. Those are jazz musicians

making that up. obviously. Absolutely. You know, and I think now it's kind of, it's like a golden age two for creativity with fusion music, kind of modern, you know, the truest sense of the word fusion where you're, if it's like hip hop and jazz or classical in jazz, all these, not necessarily what we think of coming out of the 70s as strictly fusion jazz rock funk. Right. But just taking different music and having collaborations.

Collabs. I don't know if you can. Collabs. Yeah. Hashty collab. That's right. Yeah. But I think, yeah.

I mean, this is, you know what? I'm going to start getting militant about this. I started out kind of positive like, oh, you know, I'm like, no, you better recognize this is a great state of jazz. Now I'm getting pissed off. You're like a conservative, but for the new school. That's great. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, but we'd love to hear folks' thoughts about this, right?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, you can always go to you'll hear it.com and leave us your comments. What do you think about the current state of jazz? Who are your favorite young players? What are your favorite new albums? We want your list as well because we need to check some new stuff out. That's right. And maybe people, are you on Twitter?

I'm on Twitter, yeah. Have we ever talked to each other on Twitter? I am. My Twitter game is sad, too, but I've been thinking about upping. So maybe we could throw out there, you know, and if people want to kind of talk back to us about, we could do hashtag state of jazz. Hashtag state of jazz.

I don't know if we're stealing that from somebody, but hashtag state of jazz, and you could be at, what's your Twitter? See, I don't even know. We never talked there. It's Adam Manus. Adam underscore Manus. Man, how did you get that?

I was new on Twitter, but I never have used it. I think I've tweeted seven times, maybe total. This will be a good thing. So tweet at Adam Manus, A-D-A-M-A-N-E-S-S-S. Yes, sir. One-N, two S is in Manus. And I'm I am Peter Martin, which is ridiculous, but that's what I am. At I am Peter Martin.

It's a true statement. It's a true statement because I couldn't get Peter Martin. I am Peter Martin. And you can just tweet at OpenStu. What are we? I don't even know in Open Studio. Yeah, tweeted us individually. It's not Open Studio.

I can't remember. but hashtag state of jazz and let's have a little conversation in the Twitter Twitter sphere. Absolutely. Twitter sphere? Twitter sphere.

Yeah, you can find Open Studio. I think it's, I think it is open studio. Open. It's not. It's not. No, it's absolutely not. Is it like something like, it's like,

keep jazz happening? Keep jazz live. No, it's, I think it's OS lessons actually. OS lessons? Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll tweet it out. Look for the hashtag State of Jazz. State of Jazz coming this week.

Yep. Are we going to get into a dispute with like jazz and Lincoln Center over who owns that hashtag. Yeah, I'm sure they say they have the state of jazz, which, you know, power to them. Big shout out. Big shout out. Yeah, so thank you so much for going to OpenStudio.com

and leaving your comments, your voicemails. We have the voicemail system there. You could also leave us a rating and review, a six-star rating and review. I don't care about that. Do it if you want. Oh, man, Pete's not into it anymore. He's so free.

Leave us our favorite, our favorite famous six-star rating and review on iTunes. We appreciate that. very much. We still have our special going on for the all access pass at 10% offer, you'll hear at listeners. We've had such a great response from this. We appreciate all of you reaching out about this. If you enter the

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affairs here. Yeah, we're getting way behind. Well, thanks very much, and as always, you'll hear it.