You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - When Should I STOP Practicing??

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

When will it be over... well in this episode Adam and Peter share their thoughts on when it's time to stop practicing something and move on to the next thing! As well as a few other topics that come into play.Unlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Looking to drop a question? Want to listen to the audio pod? Look no furtherhttps://youllhearit.com/Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey, Adamanis. And I'm Peter Martin. Wow, get to it, buddy. Oh, sorry. Professional, professional. Let's do it. You're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. I feel energized.

Music explored. Energizing Music Explored brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJadogadogad. Oh, you jazz listen needs. Peter, why are we playing a blues in D flat? You're playing a blues in D flat. Shout out Adam Manus. He started in B flat right before we started.

And I said, oh, I think it's in D flat. He said, okay, cool. and we recorded that. I like that. You've got to be prepared to play. I was right about that. I think it's deep. I think it is, too. We're playing it in D-flat because we're honoring a new EP that was just released.

Sometimes we like to hit up some new music here, especially if it's people we're fans of. Yes. And there's a new EP out from two people who are definitely fans of. The first is maybe one of the greatest piano players on the earth right now, Sullivan, Fortner. And vocalists, Kurt Elling, Chicago's own, right up the road here from us in St. Louis, Chicago's own, Kurt Elling. They put out a new e-pearlane. They put out a new EP called Wildflowers Volume 1, which is like this duet thing.

Peter, I stumbled upon this this weekend, and I just want to play it for you. Yeah, because I haven't heard this. Yeah. Hold disclosure. We're going to do, this is going to be a bit of a mix-mash episode. I was about it,

but that's because you're excited about it. We're going to play this. I also, I anticipate lighting. I want to show you the Miles Davis clip that I found the other day. Oh, yeah, yeah. Talk about Miles in the 90s,

in the 80s. This is like a muckbang episode, right? It is. And then we're going to take some speak pipes at the end. But I just want to start with Wildflowers Volume 1. Caleb, can we bring the artwork up for this EP? Now, it's an EP because there's only six tracks, and I think there's going to be a volume 2

because it's called Volume 1. First of all, beautiful. Oh, wow. Beautiful cover. And I wanted to play the opening track. The opening track is the track called Paper Doll, and the lyrics are weird. But the, this is, I wanted to play this for you today, Peter,

because I think this is, and I know, man, I know we've, like, we've dapped up Sullivan for years here on the show. Yeah. But this is just some of the greatest piano playing I think I've ever heard. I mean, honestly, it's so beautifully... I just want to get your reaction to it. You might not agree with it. Love it.

Right? I'm going to buy a paper doll that I can call my own. A doll that other fellows cannot steal. And then the flirty, flirty guys with their flirty eyes, with their flirty, flirty eyes, will have to flirt with dollies that are real. It's weird. I don't listen all that.

She will be waiting. Be the truest doll in all this world. this world I would rather have a paper doll to call my fickle-minded I just so relaxed and effortless all the textures that are yeah still swam-o flashy I mean I guess I've had a million dolls or more I guess I've played the dog game oh I just called Rolled with shoe You're just like all dolls do

I tell you boys it's tough to be alone And it's tough to love a doll That's not your own I'm through with all of them I'll never fall again Say more What you're gonna do I can't call 30

We'll have to go The details of that Harry The details of that accompaniment are, I don't even know, I have nothing to compare it to. It's as if Art Tatum and Hank Jones, but also, like some incredible modern players

are commenting at the same time on something and it's all wrapped up in this amazing, relaxed, not hurried, not trying to impress kind of touch. It's just exquisite. It's just exquisite. is it. And I know Solomon is getting...

I got to do something first. Okay. I'm ordering, I'm on Amazon ordering a paper doll for prime delivery. I mean,

it's... He sold me on it. It's an in-cell anthem. But it's, the piano playing is unbelievable. Absolutely. Unbelievable. Peter, thoughts on that.

Because I know you know Sullivan a little bit from back in the Norland's days, but like... Yeah. Like his connection to the roots, but without it seeming rudy, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Forward thinking, but without it seem pretentious. Yes. It's like nostalgic and modern. It's like monk. It's like nostalgia and modern. There's definitely some monk.

Yeah. But he's just super like original. I mean, he's obviously, Sullivan, is deeply connected to the tradition of jazz piano in a way that is

immensely personal. Yeah. But also just super interesting, right? So it's like, like you said, Artatum, Errol Garner, you know, the felonious monk,

all these people, you conjure them up, but there's not like, there's no putting him in a box to be like, oh, look, he's doing his monk thing, oh, he's doing this, but he's connected in a way, Oscar Peterson. Bill Evans. Bill Evans. All of this stuff is there. Fred Hirsch. Like, that's probably, you know, in terms of, but he also studied with Fred, didn't he? So there's a direct, but I think he's just, you know,

I don't know Sullivan well, but I'm known for a long time since he was a kid. So it's been fun to see him, and then I've seen him perform live consistently over the years. I always think about him as a young kid. He's not anymore, but that's... 37 years old. Ooh, yeah.

But, I mean, to me, that's a fun thing, because as I get older, that's a young kid, 37 years old. I know. I'm elated, because it's like, he's, like, we're... I'm older than him, so hopefully he'll be around my whole life. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, he's just a very deep but fun and interesting and joyful person.

He's always been like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very authentic. His family is amazing. His parents, shout out, his parents, his sister, the whole family. And he's very connected with New Orleans. And, I mean, I could go on and tell for stories for days. There's, like, a lot of interesting things because he came up at a time with a lot of other great musicians right ahead of him and right behind him.

And, you know, super talented, you know. Yeah. Tramon Shorty. who became known as drama Shorty, Jonathan Battis, Courtney Bryan, who just won a MacArthur grant. Like,

that's kind of his contemporaries that he came up with at New Orleans Center for Creative Arts and just in New Orleans in general. Incredible. As well as in a bunch of other fantastic musicians who I'm even not thinking of their name.

But just to say that, like, he, I remember when he first started playing with Roy Hargrove, and I was like, I was so excited for that and to see what that was going to do with his playing.

So that was a big part of kind of the lineage of his playing. And then what he's done with Cecil Solvant over the last, what, 10 plus years. It's amazing. In terms of the recordings, but also seeing them live as duos and then with other groups. Staggeringly good. Staggeringly good combination. And he's become one of the best, I think, of, I mean, he's with this group of players

around his age, Emma Cohen himself, Christian Sands and Joe Clayton is a little older, I believe. But like something in that range. And I'm sorry, I'm forgetting some other great ones. Like, this is an amazing time for jazz. Youngish jazz pianists. I've been saying that for years. So super exciting with that. But I think he's kind of...

Not even considering like Aaron Parks, Taylor Ixtee, like that. Right. All of this generation. Absolutely. Glenn Zeleski. Yep. But I think he's differentiated himself in some ways in that he's such an astute and loving accompanies to a vocalist.

He's the greatest. Yeah. He's the... This combination is amazing. Yeah. And it's no surprise because when he's playing with Cecile, that comes out. He's a great singer himself. Yeah.

So he knows how to do that thing, but he enjoys it, too. Yeah. So I, you know, he's the whole package. There's no doubt. Let's check out one more track here. And shout out Kurt Elling. Sorry, we're just talking about. Well, we're going to be curdling some flowers on this.

Because, you know, Kurt riffs a scat solo here that is Facebook thing. This is things with any what they used to be. This is a good piano sound. I know, man. I know there's little drums again. They recorded this and like released a week later. It's so great. It's so great.

It's a be your mind complete. Oh, that's what. Okay. Now I get it. I told me the time was changing. Used to be you would kiss me sweetly but they'd be. You've been busy to bring your arranging. Woo.

So now I see Ain't nothing the same as it used to be. I'm stealing that. Yeah. Giants. Got it used to be I went for you and you for me. It used to be ain't nothing like that going on now.

Yeah. Oh, no, nothing going on now since you turn me away. You used to love me. Now you're cheating me because you turn me away. What Sullivan does with stride, like when he jumps up, when he leaves stuff out is really, really advanced. About as much as what he's not playing is what he is playing. I actually, in a pause real quick.

I went on, after I heard this record, I went on a deep dive of Sullivan this weekend on YouTube, and I saw some early stuff when he was with Roy doing some stride, and it's evolved so much since then. He has such an organic flair to like his stride playing. Yeah, it's, this is like, it's not cookie cutter. It's miles above what, it was a little

cookie cutter when he was younger. Obviously, he's learning, still learning all about it, but now he's got this freedom and fluidity to it. It's like, it's really masterable. Yeah. Heeding me because you lead me to ruin. Dude to love me. Now you're cheating me because it's me you're gonna do it

When you get love and you lose love Ain't nothing no one else can do That's the shake up you and she used to be Now there's a break up You get love And you lose love it Love split Ah

Top shelf Top shelf It's a great solo Yeah It's new from Kurt Elling and Sullivan Fortin It's called Wildflowers Volume 1 How many tunes are on here

Six tunes There's one with Cecil A Wish Oh And there's a I can't wait to you A Mumford and Sun's song After the Storm

Which is haunting After the sun is called That's an earthwind and fire But they should have done that After the rain is gone But yeah But yeah Please add that to your

playlist for things to listen to this week. Why did we play that at the beginning? Thanks a lot for telling me. I know. We look well. We did it first so that we don't, you know what I mean?

We can't do it after. It's like a bad appetizer. Then you get to the main course, which is super tasty, but you're sick from the... Okay, sorry. Apologies for... No, no, no, no.

I mean, but his solo on that is like... Oh, man. That's solo piano playing at the highest level. Like, there's so many details, exquisite details happening that take so much precision and work and knowledge and vocabulary and creativity and artistry.

It's really something. I don't want to speak out of turn here, but that, you know what that reminds me of? His solo playing on this and just in general, McCoy Tyner, not stylistically, but like with like that level. Interesting. McCoy was not always known as a great, I mean, he was always known as a great,

so he just didn't do it, I guess, a lot. But there was like a record, what was it? I think it was on Blueno when he came back to Blueno, like live at, not town hall, Merkin Hall, something. There's a couple interesting things. Merkin. Merkin?

No, that's kind of murkin. Like, M-E-R-K-I-N. I don't know what I'm thinking of. But there's a couple things that he did like in kind of the late 80s, early 90s more that was so like he, like, McCoy would play stride, but it wasn't like, oh, he's playing stride.

And then all of a sudden you realize, oh, wait, he's playing stride. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it was that thing of where you're not just going into it and you're like putting on a top hat and a bow tie going back and time. There's something very natural and moderate about it. And like the way that

he would go in and out of bass lines, so that's what reminded him in McCoy, the way Sullivan did that went to that walking baseline and then went back to the strike. It was so, like, that's so hard to pull off. To do it where it's like swinging in time. His time is impeccable. His time is impactful. His feel and dynamics are

unreal. And you know, the cliche about the piano is, it's the whole orchestra. But he really does have... Oh, his ranges. He really does have the high brass woodwinds. He's got the low bassist. He's got a cello section. He's got the clarinet section. He's got all of these things happening. And he knows what the, even like when, when Kurt was going down deep into tenor, almost into

base range, like, Sullivan didn't just do the obvious thing and go up high. He was right there, but he was like listening. It was right around it. He was right at the right place there, which is, you know, difficulty level 10. 10. Yeah, it's pretty special. Pretty special. Good. Well, thanks for exposing us to that. I knew you'd like it, bud. I knew like... You exhibitionist, you. Well, is there a guitar? Oh, God. Sorry. Ouch.

So next, Peter, in our grab bag episode today, we've got a great question. Is this mukbang? I've seen that. I don't know what, you know what mukbong is? Watch your mouth. We can't curse on the show. We can. You curse the muckbang.

Have you heard that term before, Caleb? My dating myself? I don't know what it is. A muckbang is an online audio visual broadcast in which a host consumes various quantities of food while interacting with the Okay, well, maybe not. Sorry. I mean, if that's what it is, I'm willing to go there.

I have been, there's a lot of different kinds of food. We're going to do a muckbang. I'm down, man. Let me loosen my belt. No, we've got some speak pipes here. I've got two great speak pipes on our muck bang. Reminder. If you'd like to leave us a question, we occasionally answer them.

Yeah, and you can go to you'll hear it.com, and you can leave us a question. You've got some great questions this week. We have some great comments on our episode about us about why does Adam want to quit the pod. We had some nice ones for that. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. But we got a good one from Benjamin. Why did you want to quit the pod? Let's not talk about. Here's Benjamin. Hello. A question from from Scotland. I love the podcast. Love you guys. I was just wondering in my daily practice, I'm a beginner, but working on fundamental concepts that are in your courses.

And I had a question about when is a good? good time to stop practicing something because the concepts you talk about they can never be perfected so I struggle to know when to move on when to know that you've got a good enough base or yeah trying to talk about that thing about perfection and what's good enough in terms of happy practicing thank you it's you know Benjamin It's a great question. It's also one of the most common questions that we get, I think since we started Open Studio, I think once you present people with information, they're like, well, I don't quite have it as fluent as Peter or Adam have it, so I should stick with it until I have it that fluently. And I think that's understandable that you would think that you would think that's absolutely correct. Do not move on until you play scales like Peter Martin. No, obviously that's not correct. And I think there's many ways we can talk about it. But Peter, I think the easiest way to frame this is like the language of music. and that music is a language. And so it isn't as if you're ever finished working on, say, your vocabulary, right?

Or you're finished working on your pronunciation or the little details or your grammar or if you're a poet of the creativity that you can use within a structure. All of that is ever evolving and never ending. So how good do you have to be at it before you move on? Well, you have to... What's that? A. No, you have to be plus.

I don't know. I think Benjamin, the more and more I get this question, the key for me is growth. It's like you want to be pushing to growth. And when you plateau, it's time to move on. And you can come back. I say it all the time. There's only like 10 things to work on. Yeah.

From different ways. Right. They're like offshoots of those, maybe even less than 10. You got melody. You got harmony. You got rhythm. You got repertoire. You've got technique.

You've got sound. Right. You've got forms. You've got all kinds. language, obviously, in the cultural aspects of everything you're doing. Artistry is one of them. That's nine. And so there's one more somewhere that I'm not putting together. But you know what I'm saying?

There's only like 10 things. We work on them in various ways. And there's ways to start combining as you get more advanced. 100%. There's ways to be combining those. They're always connected to each other. But like, yes, there's ways where you can even build bigger and bigger systems. It just takes coming back to it again and again.

So don't be afraid if you're feeling like that you're bumping up against a wall of growth. It might be time to move on to something else. You can always come back. And in fact, coming back is a must. You have to leave and come back to things to grow, to grow with them. For sure. Yeah. And I think one way to think about it, you know, kind of building on that in terms of growth, well, how do we know when we've grown enough? What are we growing towards? What is happy practicing? All these different kinds of things. Like a goal for us to be able to play, especially as improvising musicians. But just as creative souls

at an instrument, I would say. A goal is certainly to be able to play by feel, or play by ear, or just feel it, or any of these kind of more esoteric things where you're just like a blank slate, you're not a blank slate,

you actually has all this information, but in terms of how you're going to put together and make an edifying, hopefully edifying performance for the listener, that you can just create, just be, just create the masterpiece, you know. But to do it by feel, not to do it by wrote or to do it by formula or by math or by like, wait, I need to add more of this.

So that's certainly an admirable goal. And I think a realistic goal that, but it's also like, that's the apex mountain. That's the top of the mountain top, right? The pinnacle. The pinnacle. It's the pinnacle. So we're not unsuccessful on our journey until we get there. but we can see that and as we get closer it's still exciting

because you start to see some more clarity of that top of the mountain even though you're not standing on it and the dirty little secret is you never actually stand on it and that's why what you said is like we're always coming back to these things but I do think that we can also take the concept of doing something by feel as far as a goal

also to our practice so it's like how do we develop the ability to really have a feel for when we need to move on from something, right? Which is really what the question, who was the gentleman's name? I'm sorry, I'm forgetting.

Benjamin. Benjamin, from Scotland, from Scotland. What? That's not right? Sorry. Say it again? I'm trying. No, I'm not going to say it again.

But, like, how, I think what he's asking is, okay, that's all fine and good. I can't even see the mountaintop maybe, but like, how do I know these fundamental things, not when it's maybe ready to leave them forever, but like kind of law of diminishing returns. Like, and we probably make this, and a lot of more advanced players make this assumption that everybody can feel that.

And they can't. You know, it's like you have to develop that, but that's also a muscle that you can work on. That's true. And it's an important one. So, like, yes, we want to be able to play by feel, you know, Apex Mountain, but we also want to be able to practice by feel. And so I think that, like, when I think back to that development of that, like, so now, if I'm practicing something, I don't have to think about, well, like, how long am I going to practice scales? I do it by feel.

I do it by whatever feels, not whatever feels good, but whatever feels right. Because that's an accumulation of experiences and kind of intellectualizing, trial and error, not like perfecting anything, but getting closer to perfection of practice in terms of optimizing the time. Not in a tech bro way, but in a way of like,

okay, cool, I can move on now. How did you know? How many minutes was that? What did you accomplish to get there? I was like, well, I'm not exactly sure, but I feel like it's time to move on to the next thing. You know what can help with that actually, ironically, and I know this weird coming from me, but... Chat GPT?

Yeah. No. In order to be free, right? And to play by feel and to practice by feel. I love that idea of being able to feel your way through practice. I think that is something that we take for granted because we've been doing it all our lives now. And so I'm the same way. I don't have to track everything in my practice.

Yeah. But there was a time that I did. Right. And that can help... You've got to go through that process. That Benjamin can help big time. So you might track what it is you're working on. Yeah.

Like in a journal, we've, Peter and I have always consistently had practice journals and talk about it. And I still, when I practice, will use my journal to practice a little bit of the things I'm working on so that you can see later because you can't, you can't optimize what you can't track. Now, I'm not for, definitely not for everything needs to be optimized. But if you're on a certain part of your journey, it's like you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. So whatever you're working on, just make a note of what you're working on, the keys you're working on. the keys you're working it through, the tempos you're working it through,

the tunes you're putting it through, and then you're going to look back on that and be able to, like, adjust things and be like, oh, you know what, I should hit this in 3, 4, or I should do this scale in the key of B because I haven't really spent that much time in it. Then you track.

And then after several months, years, decades, whatever, you can get to the Peter Martin level where you know how this feels to be working just a little bit outside of your comfort zone, working on things that you're not quite comfortable with. You can feel what that feels like, knowing when you're up against the wall and it's time to move on, you can feel what

that feels like because you've tracked, you've seen results from that. So you might consider that starting your practice journal as a tracking tool so that you can really, you can really optimise your practice routine for now. And then later, this will develop into a natural feel that you can let go of that. I think it's okay to use the optimize because the ultimate optimization of a practice routine is to do it by feel. That's right. You know, it's like when the pilots have, you know, there's a pilot and a co-pilot on an airplane, and they go through certain rituals, right, checklists of things to do. The ultimate optimization of that is just doing that by field.

That's right. Now, that's another level. They still have to, like, I guess, legally go through certain checklist. But the ones that know it and can do it are doing it by field. But more importantly, like, if something's off, they feel that before the checklist tells them. Yeah. Because they have that experience. I think that taking that kind of thing to the practice routine,

I like this idea of tracking your practice and also tracking it at the end, like reflecting. Like there's a little bit of a journal element to it where it's like what energized me during that practice. That's right. Not what was easy, but what energized me and what sapped me of my energy. Not made me tired, but sapped me of my energy

because that's a different thing. Like you can have very productive and energizing practice where you're like auxiliary. Exilarated. Exilarated. With any. Like with the auxiliary jack that you're plugging into. I know we can like it.

Well, I still don't have it right. I don't think you do either. But that could even be difficult. Yeah. An exhilarating practice session. Yeah, it should be. It should be. It should be.

But the whole practice shouldn't be. Right. And that's why you track and you start because you can't, like, then it can become draining, right? And this is not a precise thing, but by keeping some notes on that, you can start to, like, change the order and different things like that. that kind of optimization, I think, is useful, up to a point. But it's useful to get you to start to do it by feel. You know what I mean?

You shouldn't always be doing that. And also, I think most people don't realize how much of a margin of error they have in practice. It's a lot bigger than you think. So when the time that you're worrying about, should I move on or not, it does matter, but it doesn't matter as much as you think. So, like, you can trust, in other words, you don't have to wait until you're at some magical pro level to be able to practice by feel. You can already do it some.

Just like if you're going to go out and become, say, I want to run a marathon. I'm going to start training for a marathon. But I can't run it all at first. So I don't know how to optimize my, or to train by feel. Well, yeah, you actually do know a little bit because you can probably go out and walk.

You might, if you had to, go out and walk an entire marathon. Yeah. That's not that. Like, so I mean, there's certain things you are. You're not starting from nothing. Right. And you, or you can start to run.

run and know when you're getting tired and you're going too fast or whatever. So take what you have, trust what you have, listen, learn, and also get feedback. That's an important thing. I think we do take for granted the fact that we can give ourselves feedback more than the beginner can. 100%. So you got to get feedback. You can do that yourself. It's easier to have a teacher or Open Studio Pro. That's, I think, one of the things we don't talk about enough at Open Studio Pro, the feedback you get from each other and from the teachers, especially in certain classes. Every class is an opportunity for some kind of feedback. And then we have direct classes. it's like feedback Friday, obviously.

We can play to get direct feedback. It's important. Yeah, because feedback is not about, like, it's not a binary thing. Like, you're either getting feedback all the time or you're getting none. A lot, I think the best kind of feedback is the kind that starts to teach yourself

how to give yourself feedback. Because I remember I had a great teacher that was like, one of my wonderful piano teachers growing up, and one of my Jane Allen, RIP, I remember her saying, like, something to the fact of, actually, no, maybe this was my dad that told me. Anyway, like I said, I had a lot of great teachers.

Same to. But the concept was that however much, if you're going for an hour lesson once per week, but you're practicing, you know, at that time I was doing three, four, five hours a day, you know, average. So, you know, 90 plus percent of your time, you're practicing on your own. And then even when you're in a lesson, it's not like for an hour straight, you're getting feedback. So that, but the feedback, if you optimize that time with someone that can give you feedback and is more knowledgeable and can open up pathways for you, it's not just about, oh, use this finger or whatever.

It's like how do you develop a good fingering? So that when you're spending all that other time, you've got the tools as opposed to just that one specific instance. That's right. So that's about being a good student and like taking the feedback and being able to optimize that for a bigger picture kind of thing. Yeah, and oftentimes to that point, when we do feedback Fridays and I'm coaching and giving feedback,

I often start with a series of questions because this is what I would ask myself after performing something. That's great. It's like, how did I feel about that? What was I intending with that? Did I feel like I reached my intention? If not, how did I not live up to that intention? And what can I do to fix that?

What can I practice to work on that? So that kind of... And there's one more question that's needed to. Which is... Who's your daddy? Who's your daddy? I don't know. I don't think I'm going to ask that.

But you know what I mean? But that's... I've been doing this for so long. That's just naturally where I go when I practice. It's like what... And I don't even think about it, but it's just like, how did that feel? Because it's like getting you into... a mindset for that particular situation, but also getting someone in a mindset for when they

go to practice, or when they need feedback and they don't have. No one's ever going to have, and you don't, in fact, it's not even healthy to always have feedback. It's like, well, if I could have, you know, the greatest marathoner in the world constantly training me every single step, it's like, no, because there's going to be a come of time when you need to do something on your, when you need to. So that's not even like what you want, but you want some, for sure. You need some. So Benjamin, you know, try to track what you're practicing, try to get some feedback. And then don't be afraid to move on. Realize that there's no finish line, as we talked about to any of this, and that we're only really working on 10 things maybe and that we're

going to come back to them again and again. And trust yourself on feel even now, even before you've really got the answers, at least in terms of your energy level, you're pacing the same, like take things that you do feel confident about in your life that you know how to do, maybe in your work or something, your family, something that you have a lot of experience, and pull that over that same feeling. Because that's when we talk about practicing by feel. Everything, that we can do well. Most people, when they go to drive, we have a friend who's just about to drive.

I mean, she's an adult. She's like 50 years old, and she's never driven. She's been living in Europe and she's living here. And she's like so scared. Like, I have to learn how to drive. It seems so crazy. It is. It's super dangerous in this city.

But you take that for granted because we all do that by feel. Yes. Right? So it's like, what are the things? Like, when are the times when you're paying more attention? When are the times when, like, I can relax and those kind of things, bring those things over to your music. good luck benjamin great question uh next day we've got one more speak pipe this is a nice one from grant

good afternoon gentlemen uh really enjoyed your uh basanova is is jazz a session um have a request the request is would you do one uh and you'll hear it on jobeam's harmonies particularly his progressions and voicings. Thank you very much. You guys are great. Thank you, Grant. Thanks for the kind words. Thanks for the great question.

We are great. So, Peter, I had an idea. Just to affirm that. We just did, he's talking about the gets gilberto. Gets Gillesberto. And I thought we could just take the first A section here that we have Joe Beam and and Astrid singing Quiet Nights and just analyze what's going on in the changes.

Talk about something that we might have learned from some of our Brazilian friends. But you can hear also with this intro, because it's just solo piano and Astrid, Joe Beam's voicing's a little bit and see if we can figure out some of that stuff. Let's have a listen. Hold on.

Coming soon. Here we go. Quiet nights of quiet stars. Quiet courts. I wish you told me this. before. I could have tried to figure it out, but we'll do it as we go. No. Yeah. I think I've got the top notes. So that's

just the intro. So this is quiet and I'd and he starts up with an E on top, which I think is what you would do for any singer to give them the note, right? And then immediately goes into this diminished. Yeah. And then on the, so it's A minor.

A minor six. A minor six is the first chord, which I want to put a pin in this because we had our, we had a friend here of the show, Fabio Torres. Yeah. Who had some really interesting thoughts on this. Then there's the G diminished. Also known as E7 over G sharp. I was going to say E.

I think that's a little easier way to... Then a G minor 7. Yeah. Which Jobim puts C on top. Yeah. To a C7. To an F-diminish. So let's just talk about that

That first thing. So this first, what is that, eight bars? Yeah, eight bars. Oh, thank you. Cordy, cordy. Courtney. So this first eight bars, I think, is hallmarked Joe Beam in that. So the melody has a continuous theme that is being moved around.

It stays the same at first, right, which is a Joe Beam thing of like changing the chord under a melody. So you got the A minor. and you've got a chromatic motion down. Also a Jobeam. Right, root movement. This root movement where the root moves down in half steps. You've got the E7 over G sharp. Could also call that G sharp diminish.

G minor seven, C7, F diminished. With a major seven. A unicorn shape of like F, A flat. My spear pierce. This is the sky. Yep. That's the unicorn horn. To this F major six.

Major 6 or F-13, right? Yep. So that alone is really interesting. What Fabio was talking about, who they, you know, the Brazilian, the Trucurente came here to our studio. And this A minor 6, he said Tom would describe, Tom Jobim, would describe as a D7 over A. And he would describe this as a D9 over A or just D7.

Yeah, like a D9 over A. Yeah. He called this a 251. He said this is like a G7 flat 9 inversion with the flat 9 of the bass. Right? Going to... Yeah. So that's how Fabio described.

Interesting. Right? Yeah. And then G minor. Or C-Suff. With C-7, yeah. Which I think is an interesting way to look at it. But if we look at what's happening here, Peter, in like the root and shell situation.

Yeah. So not only is the root moving down in half steps, But if we look at our A6, right? Move that down. A half step, please. Yep. Right? That's our G-sharp diminished.

That's why it's so important. It's like, it's not illegal to play A minor 7, but it's not really what the tune is. It's a six, yeah. Because it's different. And I think that is actually like a G-sharp diminished. And when you listen to his voicing, because I think he is doing this same unicorn voicing that he's going to do on the F-diminished is happening. there. Yep.

And then what happens there, G minor. Again, the B goes down to B flat. The F eventually goes down to E. Yep. Then you can delay that. Then we have our... Up to the ninth. And this is very show B.

is to start, like, where you're around more like chords, fifth, thirds, whatever. Now you're just the melody. I'm talking about sitting on some upper extensions, right? Yeah. So that's the fifth, and that's the fifth, or I guess it's diminished seventh,

technically. Fifth, I mean, that's the ninth, but it's seven to the six, and now up to the ninth. Right. And on the intro, I don't hear him go to a B flat,

I hear him. So he kind of keeps it on F minor seven the whole time. I'm doing a little bit of a substitution. And then an E minor. So this is like, like a phrygian sound, a phrygian sound, which makes sense. We're in the key of a minor C major. The A7 has this flat 13 plus on the top, he's got a sharp 9.

And this is, I think, a very Jobeen thing here where he's going to have the melody do that. The top note of his core is a B flat going to this natural 13 over D7, right? So he's got this. B13. this contrary motion, right? And then this D minor 7, G7. Let's listen to that one more time. Caleb, can we get the cordi off there, please?

Cordyless. Here it is. Quiet nights of quiet stars. Quiet chords from a guitar floating on the silence that's around. You got the C on top on the G minor. No C in the bass, either. But it is on top.

Quiet rocks by quiet street D flat 13 So again G flat's flat line And it's straight to the Yeah yeah So on the T minor 7

A on top G7 The flat 9 on top That is also another Joe Beam hallmark of these Again we saw it with the Using the chromaticism In this contrary feel

Yep Yeah That was interesting in that G minor he's got the 11th up on top. Doesn't he the C? Even though it doesn't go to the C sucks the first time. I think, considering what Fabio said about all this,

Fabio Torres, is great Brazilian pianist. About that, that this is like a D9 over A, and this is like a G7 over. Like, I wonder if in the Brazilian Jobim way of thinking about harmony, that this isn't just C7 over G. Right, right, right. Because he doesn't do a B-5. flat either. So it's just like an F minor.

Yeah. So this combination of like if this is D, then certainly this is C. Right. You know what I mean? That's some great harmonic fluidity there. It really is. But I think it's a nice, like speaking to Fabio about this was a nice like glimpse into how someone might think about

these things, not in a traditional sort of Berkeley School of Music, chord scale. I go to Berkeley. Well, I don't think they talk like that, but yes. but that sort of like in a box kind of thinking about not that Berkeley does that but you know what I'm saying

is like the sort of standard scale theory thing of like everything fits into one box I'm not sure if everybody's thinking about that especially these composers in this era or maybe they're just thinking about a different box you know like a little bit of a different system and plus there's multiple ways to explain things but there's also multiple ways to think about

and to hear things and that can lead to some interesting outcomes not right or wrong or whatever but that's always why I think music theory or the explanation, especially kind of assessment afterwards, it's good to kind of just stick with what you know and not like project into the mind of the composer too much. You know, it's like it is what it is. And this is one way of explaining. This is another way. That's why we don't like the like, no, it's this or it's got to be this way because there are

multiple ways. And sometimes it's just like a different way of taking the path that takes it to a different sound, you know, or even something like, is it, you know, E sharp or is it F natural? It's like, well, it doesn't matter, but sometimes it matters to some people because of how they're thinking about the leading tones getting up to that point. All right, I agree. Grant, thank you for the question. Yeah. Awesome insights. We killed those speed pipes. We certainly did. Caleb, so I want to go out here. I stumbled upon a little Miles Davis video. Have you ever done YouTube on your TV? I know I sound. Dude, that's all we do on our television.

I just started. Are you kidding me? No. You have YouTube preview, don't you? Yeah. Oh. I thought you just started that. I was going to be like, get out of our studio.

I was on a rabbit hole on YouTube. On my television. You're doing it through the Roku system. Yeah. Of course. How do we not talk about this? That is television to us at our home. Are you serious?

Yeah, I mean, we'll occasionally do a little bit of Netflix or something, but that's, and you know, fun fact, they just came out with some stats from the Nielsen monitoring organization. Okay. It still exists. No, but they were like, do you know that YouTube has more eyeball minutes on televisions than like Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon Prime combined? You're kidding.

Absolutely. Then I'm really late to the party. Well, it's all right. The party's waiting for you. I've never seen this Miles Davis video. Shame on me. So this is from 1988. By the way, my parents watch YouTube.

They watch this podcast. Do they really? On YouTube television. How about a Gala? If you watch this podcast on YouTube on your TV. Well, that's harder to. to give the, because you got to go over to your device. I love to comment. I love to tell people

how their facial hair looks. You can go multi-device, man. Come on. All right. Yeah. I don't know why I've never seen this video. Oh, this is amazing. I thought I've seen this. But what I... Man, I was just talking about this to someone because I saw Kenny Garrett last weekend.

Yeah. And I was just talking about this and how this period of Kenny Garrett, I actually saw in 1987 this band live on Long Island. Are you serious? Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't want to talk. I mean, I wasn't thinking about King and Garrett, but I love this video because, first of all, Miles sounds great. But he plays, it's like every, he'll play a phrase.

Yeah. And then he's got to do something else on stage. He's fussing. He's got to go fussy with his horn. He's got to talk into his mic. Yeah, yeah. He'll direct the band. He'll go take a drink of water.

He'll like, turn his back. Look at the audience. Look at Foley. It's a fascinating look at Miles in the 80s. And it was amazing because this is 1988. Oxal Foley also known as Eddie. Murphy is on here. No.

Just a joke. Good one. And there's a moment where they go into the melody where the band, there's no nod. Right. And it's not like he's like. Mike Stern on keyboards? It looked like him. I'm going to do something else.

Futson. He's just walking around. I love it so much. Jack is divine. This is special because you're like, what is happening? He turns it into this amazing experience. I got to watch. For those of you who are listening, between every five miles, he's fiddling with his horn, he's walking, pasting the stage, playing to the floor.

Yeah, his trumpet is... That was the cue of the head, by the way. Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah, his trumpet is vertical. Yeah, vertical. 180 years. He has sparkly pants on.

Hand shoes. Large shoes. He's a Martin trumpet custom Miles Davis edition. Martin brand. Wonder what happened to his sunglass collection. I think that might be from my mother's collection 10 years early. It's in the French. On bass.

Payson, now he's heading towards the back of the stage. Is this a rehearsal or the gig? Ooh, that's a Sinclair, I think. Is that? No. Get a glass of water. He's in no rush. He seems to be focusing more now. The trumpet is now

not past vertical. Yeah, it's 170 degrees now. I feel like the band might be terrified. Wait, do we go on? I know. I would be terrified. I'd be very much on my toes. You know what I mean? Close attention. I tight feedback loop with Miles. A lot of market correction.

He's about to market correct this whole box. Of course. Boots or shoes? Bobby, Bobby. What do you say? Bobby, Bobby, lay out. Into his microphone on the trumpet. To the house.

More water. He's really putting around. I mean, it's like you're watching a man work in a studio or something, like in an art studio instead of a concert. Mute-Sap. This is so killing, though. Sepidaciously. Neatuck in. So he's like forehead to forehead with guitarists.

Out of all that, fully staring at him, Miles is looking down, though, I think, right? Yeah. Who was that? The third on, he looked like it. mocking the audience here? How great is that? No. The showmanship, like, the comfort in your own skin,

but not giving anything about what anybody else is thinking or doing or trying to impress is on another level. Yeah. I mean, it's on an incredible level of, like, an earned level for miles at this point. Yeah. Of just, like I said, it's like you're watching someone in a laboratory. Just, like you said, like putter around. Right.

I'm not, I'd like some water now. I'd like to tell the keyboard player to lay out. I'm going to do it in my mic on the house. Oh, did he say Rob? Robert, Bob. He might have. I think it's Robert Irving. But isn't it something?

It's an amazing piece of foot. It's fascinating. Of all the clips of Miles, that has become my new favorite of just like watching someone who has been around for a long time and is just like doesn't care what you think or or what, like he's just doing. this to live in the moment. Right. You can watch if you want.

You can buy a ticket and watch. I'm here. Well, that was awesome. It was great, wasn't it? Yeah, that was so cool. All right. Until next time. You'll hear it.