You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Why Do Jazz Pianists LOVE Roberta Flack?

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Tune in as we pay tribute to the incomparable Roberta Flack, who we sadly lost last month. From her 1969 debut album First Take (featuring Open Studio artist Ron Carter on bass) to her iconic collaborations with Donny Hathaway – we dissect why what Flack didn’t play was just as important as what she did. We’ll explore how this classical piano prodigy, who entered Howard at 15 and didn’t write her own songs, became the Quiet Storm Queen that influenced every soul, R&B, and jazz singer since. You’ll hear why her understated yet commanding vocals and that classic 70s kick drum made “Killing Me Softly” a hit, grooving duets like “You’ve Got A Friend,” and deep cuts that redefined ballads. Join us to uncover the genius of Roberta Flack.🟠 Open Studio Members → Nerd NookOG YHI episode on Donny and Roberta https://youtu.be/78mMufAqZScABOUT OPEN STUDIO------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As the premier online jazz education platform, with an ever-expanding course library and 20,000+ members, Open Studio (OS) has everything you need to excel and thrive on your jazz journey.Featuring everything from beginner to advanced lessons, engaging courses from A-list instructors, step-by-step curriculum, real-time classes and a thriving and incredibly supportive community, OS is the perfect platform to level up your jazz playing, whether you’re a total beginner, or an advanced pro-level improvisor.Try OS Membership today! → https://osjazz.link/aboutAll about YHIhttps://lnk.to/youllhearitYB

Peter Martin. Amen. For this Roberta Flack episode, why don't we do, let's do Feel Like Making Love, what do you think? Oh, yeah. Actually, I have an idea for that. Okay. Yeah. It's a bit fussy, isn't it?

A little ECM-ish, maybe. What about something like this? Like, uh, no? Is it a little corny? I'm not really feeling that. Yeah, it is kind of corny. But you know what? We have a very special guest artist, Mr. Jamal Nichols in the house.

Oh, we do indeed. Okay. Why don't we let him set it up. All right. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Music, Explored. Explored, brought to you the day by Open Studio.

Go to OpenStudio.com for all your jazz lesson needs. Is that on the worldwide web? It is on the worldwide web. Hey, before we get... Jazz.com. That's right. Got it. Yep, exactly.

Thank you, Al Gore. Before we get too deep into it, just shout out Jamal Nichols filling in for Bob the boo on the bass. Shout out Caleb Kirby playing the drums on the feel like making love. That was fun. That's a great tune. A nice little musical bed and segue for us to jump off into this great artist. And that might make its way into some of our category.

later. So we are talking about the great Roberta Flack, who we sadly lost as of today. This is March 2025. We lost last month in February. Roberta was born in 1937 in North Carolina and went on to become, I think, one of the more influential musicians of the late 20th century. It's actually hard to pin down, you know, after her, who hasn't been sort of influenced in one way or another by the music that she made the music she recorded. And the way that she took jazz and soul and everything and in this beautifully restrained sound. Yeah.

And her work in collaboration with Donnie Hathaway I think will resonate for years and years and decades and decades to come. I just want to note Roberta Flack from North Carolina. North Carolina, a state that punches above its weight in terms of producing master artists. 100%. Yeah. I'm thinking Thelonelonius Monk.

Oh, there's so many. John Coltrane, yeah. Roscoe P. train as well. No, I don't think he's from there. Definitely not. No, but that North Carolina, shout out North Carolina, home state of my mother and father. Well, let's go back to North Carolina and hear Roberta

in her own words about her musical beginnings. His memories are actually of my church experience. When I got in the church situation, in the little Sunday school programs and Sunday school teaching situations, and they needed somebody to play, Jesus loves me, this,

that was me, you know? had a chance not only to please myself, but to please my peers, which even at six or seven, as a performer, is a really hard thing to do. You know, you can resort to thumb-sucking in a minute. That's what I was doing at six. So getting her start, like many, many, many musicians we've talked about getting her start in church, playing the piano in church. She went on to fall in love with classical music, of all things. Can you just put a pin in the church thing? Because I'm always thinking about other artists that we know in the jazz world or, you know. in the, you know, Donnie Hathaway coming up in the, I mean, all these great artists.

What is it about that? Because I always thought, like, the knee-jerk reaction is the Lord has blessed them because they spent more time. Part of it, probably. But I think that as Roberta kind of alluded to there, there is a certain, well, there's a competitive aspect to it sometimes because there's other great musicians, singers, or maybe the drummer or whatever that you feel like, oh, I have to rise up to their level. Yeah.

There's certainly the competition of rising up to the level of the deep meaning. of being in a spiritual place, of course. I think there's community. I think there's natural apprenticeship that happens in a church community. Apprentice, that's important. And I think that's the biggest thing. You know, all of my relatives

that are musical were church musicians as well. Like some of my earliest musical, live musical memories are seeing my great-uncle Elze and my great aunt Imogene play at the Methodist Church in South St. Louis. She played the organ. He played the most beautiful Gibson acoustic guitar you've ever seen. And they were magical together.

And I remember, like, singing along to those hymns and I remember like, I know them and, like, you know, leaning over my Aunt Imogene's shoulder. And I think church is a great place for anybody to learn music because of that sort of like openness between generations. Yeah. You've got someone who's doing it very accomplished, doing it for a long, long time, and you have little tiny kids who are watching and learning. And it's on the weekend. And it's on the weekend. I think, too, there's that, there's a little bit of trial by fire. If you're like, oh, we need somebody on drums.

Hey, kid, get up there. And then you're like, oh, I just. I've got to keep up. I've got a group. Absolutely. And also talent, identification. Just a situation where you have access to instruments and voice and that kind of thing. Yeah.

So Roberta starts in church, which her parents were very encouraging of. And then she's, Roberta's also, by the way, super smarty pants person. She starts attending Howard University at age 15. She falls in love with classical music specifically Chopin. When did you start college? It wasn't 15. I'll tell you that much. But here's Roberta talking about her experience with the people.

piano on the classical level. But being a classically trained musician, that means as far as my piano studies are concerned, that I was taught by a person who was an expert when it came to Bach and music of the Baroque period, you know, Scarlet Heiden, she excelled at that. She was a black woman who taught piano at Howard University. and she had studied in Europe on scholarship.

Her name was Hazel Harrison. And she said to me, you know, if you can hold on to your love for playing the piano and play Bach this way. Don't play Bach like you're playing Chopin or Mozart. Play Bach like this. If you can do that, then we'll have accomplished something. So I learned to do that. I learned to cite-read those things at the Opera Club.

accompanying insight reading for opera students at Howard as well. A little more trial by fire. A lot of trial by a fire. She graduates Howard University and... Wait, are you saying that if you take a talented young person, expose them to music, in church, and then later on with a great teacher

that somehow they might flower into becoming a great artist? I know. It's bizarre, right? Oh, also just want to say Nina Simone came to mind, another North Carolina native. A lot of through lines with Roberta and Nina, actually. but then Roberta Flack goes on to not have a meteoric rise when she graduates college. She actually just starts teaching music in the D.C. public school system.

And it's not until she's almost 30 that she gets her big break. She's playing at a small club in Georgetown in D.C. And she's discovered by pianist and singer Les McCann. And Les McCann is most famous for this. hanging on we push a chub possession is the motivation that is hanging up the goddamn nation looks like we always end up in a run everybody now trying to make it real compared to what come on big great left mccann discovers young roberta flack but but not too young like i said she's been like paying a do she's been teaching music she's been

playing clubs. She just... You're in your middle age. She literally just starts singing like the year before. And within a year of this of Les McCann discovering her,

she's, you know, like on the Tonight Show. And she's kind of already made a big name for herself. Her... So you're saying I'm only one year, potentially. I'm saying a lot of things that are. I'm appearing on the Tonight Show,

me. If I can be discovered. My vocal abilities. We're going to get you that. We're going to get you that for one of your birthdays. It's a rolling one year. It's been rolling for 30 years. More than that, buddy.

More than that. So then she puts out what could be one of the great debut albums of all time. It's got to be in the conversation, right? Right. Don't hedge. Put it out there, man. First take, 1969. And look what's on this.

Look what's on first take. First track from her mentor. With possession is the motivation. Hanging up the whole day. Damnation looks like we always end up in a... I mean, so this is why we're talking about today the subtle restraint, right? The quiet genius of Roberta Flack. Her ability to pull some of the most heart-wrenching, soul-crushing vocals out of a very, very subdued style of instrument that she has with her voice.

She definitely has like a horn where she can, where she can, like, resonate. but a lot of it is just like couched really, really low and really subtle. It's really incredible. I just want to highlight, too, the rhythm section on this for our jazz fans here. Roberta Flacks playing piano on this whole album. Killing it. We got Bucky Pizzarelli on guitar. How about that?

We got the maestro himself, open studio artist Ron Carter on the bass. Ray Lucas, excuse me, on the drums and percussion. So, like, there is, you know, a really a through line here to a lot of jazz. And some of the tracks on all of our albums, she'll do extended improvisation or, like, vibey sections that definitely resonates for 70s jazz fans. Yeah, I mean, it's got the openness,

the space, the instrumentation of a jazz. I mean, I think this is jazz. I mean, I know that's a controversial take and we'll probably talk about some other forays I've had into, with that particular record, especially one track of defining that as one of the greatest jazz tracks of all time. But I'm going to put it out there?

Yeah. Sue me. So after first half, take, she puts out her second album and just, I could see your interest. We'll get to you. We'll get back to you. After first take, she puts out her second album called Chapter 2. Chapter 2 is also an incredible, I think it's, I hadn't really gone deep on Chapter 2, but check out Do What You Got to do from Chapter 2. Do what you got to do. This is Jimmy Webb composition. How it might be Foo.

I wanted you that I loved you and your own kids. Such an amazing storyteller. Yeah. I mean, it's really where she shines. Right. You know? She didn't write her own music. She sang other people's songs and, like, great song interpreters,

she's able to just, like, pull your heart out. Yeah. Let's do what you got to do from Chapter 2. Beautiful, beautiful song. So she's just on a run now. 69 is first take. 70 is chapter 2. 71, she puts out an album called Quiet Fire.

Three albums in three years. She's like going for it. And she's got a couple of heavy hitter songs on here, including Paul Simon's Bridgeover Troubled Water, which is, this is an incredible rendition. It is a great one. There's so many great renditions of this, but I put this right up there.

This is Quiet Fire. Again, Ron Carter on the bass. Sissy Houston on. background vocals on this. Hubert Law is on flute. I don't know about this track. Humacrackin on guitar, Bernard Purdy on drums, Chuck Rainey on bass. The piano playing too. Yeah. Peter, you know me. You know I love me some Garfunkel. Yeah. I love some Mark Garfunkel. Yeah. That's crazy next level right there. It's so great. And I think, you know,

what we hear in Roberta's piano playing is, like, there's nothing wrong with just loving her playing and being like, oh, that's so great, but I think to the average listener, that's what you should do. You're focusing on the voice and the story. Great storyteller, as you said, nuanced, you know, with her voice. But I can tell you, like, if you really listen to how she's playing the instrument, and if you ever tried to play that big boxing machine there, like, to do what she does so simply, like there's so many little things,

it's like, you know, I mean, it's like any great artist. They make it look easy. They make it sound beautiful. Like, it's what she's not playing. Yeah. It's how she's connecting those things. The restraint. The queen of restraint.

Queen of restraint. But like when you play like that, you actually expose, there's some technical challenges that that brings on to be able to keep it going. Like her just effortless, easy sense of groove on that where it's just like the groove is there, but it's like nothing, there's nothing unnecessary. Like it's such, I can't tell you how hard it is to actually play like that without adding anything else. I couldn't do it.

I mean, I can try it. And I have tried a duplicate her. I've certainly been influenced by her playing and other players. there's like her. But to me, it's a very interesting way to play the instrument. Yes, you hear,

like the kind of control when she talks about the classical training she has, it's kind of obvious when you kind of look back and you're like, oh, okay. But then there's the church influence.

There's like the harmonic influence. And then that's not even talking about that she's accompanying herself while she's playing, which is not an easy thing to do. And so it's just one of those things where it's like, there's nothing crazy, flashy about it

unless you're a pianist. And you actually listen to you're like, oh shit. It's really great. So it's always fun to hear this kind of playing, you know? Another single from Quietfire is another hit song from another artist. Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow? Written by Jerry Gauphin and Carol King.

Great tune. A lot of ballads on today's episode because Roberta is had the... The storm is a brewing. There's a quiet storm of Bruin. Don't give it away. It's a great song. Carol King. Yeah.

Brill building. to do a Carol King episode at some point. And I'll put the whole Brill Building scene. The Brill Building episode. Is that what it's called? Yeah. Sure. We're history podcasts.

So again, this is a second single from Quiet Fire. Great name for an album from Roberta Flack, Quiet Fire. Telling about all this stuff. Very focused. You know, my research leading up to this, I learned so much that I didn't know. And Roberta Flack talked about a lot, her classical background. And she said even when she was choosing classical repertoire, she would often choose things that weren't the flashiest things

with lots of blistering technique. She wanted to do melodic, beautiful, subtle pieces. That's what she's drawn to, and it carries over into her pop career. Absolutely. Man, she had some great musicians on this record. Joe Farrell, Hubert Laws, Les McCann, Bernard 30, Chuck Rainey.

Chuck Rainey, who was on a bunch of her records around that time. A bunch of killers on it. Okay. So now we're going to go backwards. because at this point in 1971, after this, in 1972, a movie comes out directed by Clint Eastwood called Play Misty for Me. And one of the songs on the soundtrack is from Roberta's first album in 1969, first take, and it's this, which becomes by far her most massive hit up to this point.

Three years later. Ron Carter, fifth. What a beautiful, patient hit. Queen of Restrain. Oh. A great song by UK songwriter, Ewan McColl. Oh, Ewan. And this was in the Kalaniswood movie, right?

Yeah. Actually, I don't know if Ewan was UK or Ireland, but... British Isles. Somewhere over there. Over the... In that island region. How gorgeous is that, man? And this wins, like, all...

the awards, it's a massive, massive hit. And it's from three years later, like she's just on fire from something that's three records ago, three albums ago, you know? Even then, I think that was very unusual. It's pretty unusual. It's pretty unusual. Films could do that.

Films definitely could do that. And, you know, Clint is a huge fan of jazz and play Misty for me. You don't know what I mean? It's the name of the movie. And things are about to even take off even more for Roberta Flack because that very same year, she releases the Roberta Flack and Donnie Hathaway album, which we actually have covered here on the podcast,

the full thing, and it's worth listening to that whole episode. We'll have producer Caleb put a link in the show notes to the original episode, but we can definitely listen to a couple of tracks because it yielded one of the biggest hats in the 1970s. This is Where is the Love from 1972. Chuck Rainey on Electric Face here. Bernard Purdy on drums.

A lot of crossover between a lot of Roberta Flack and Donnie Hathaway and Steely Dan album, I don't know if you've noticed that. St. Louis' own, Donnie Hathaway, ladies and gentlemen. And Chicago. At Chicago. You know, I think that Roberta's, like, restraint, Donnie, a little, I mean, he really had that kind of restraint element, but a little bit more in there. But for every, like this way of,

even though this is not a ballad, that kind of musical philosophy to like the space and stuff enabled so many cool things to happen on these tracks. And every time I hear it like Chuck Rainey's iconic lines on here and his very restrained playing,

but then at little places where he's don't in these little fields and purdy's just like right in there, but then these little details, that kind of restraint and space and architecture enables for all these little special class moments. I'm so glad you mentioned Chuck Rainey. He's all over, you know, a lot of these Roberta Flack. Ron Carter, Chuck Rainey or taking the base seat. There's a lot of Bernard Purdy on the stuff, too.

I think Chuck Rainy and Bernard Purdy, they set an archetype for a rhythm section in the 1970s that has been, frankly, replicated at nauseam by other folks and for good reason, because they're just incredible together, great chemistry together. So there's one other hit here from another Carol King song You've got a friend that I wanted to highlight one of my favorite all-time tracks in 1997

Do you like a heavy pan on your Fender Roads? I do. I think that's Donnie on the Fender Roads. So this album would start this collaboration which has become one of the most legendary

duo collaborations music history. I will be there To brighten up Even your darkest night You just call Out my name And you know

See like that little thing Yeah The little details Good to know that you got And she brings She just brings the flavor We talked about this On the episode about this album specifically

But I think their magic Sauce together is Donnie has this incredible powerful voice. Yeah, he's got this athletic voice. Can you know anything, any range, any dynamic. prodigious. Roberta has the restraint. Yeah.

Roberta grounds Donnie. And they, like, fit each other fire and ice kind of way. Just the greatest. That's you've got a friend. Carol Kings, you've got a friend from. And you can compare, like, Donny Hathaway's version without Roberta on the live, Donnie Live, I guess, Bitter End or whatever that, where he's doing the same. You've got a, like, he sings differently. It's great, too.

And, like, he's pushing in a way and there's more athleticism. It's busier. I mean, it's certainly great, just different. But, like, that's a really good contrast to hear that version with this. So from there, Roberta releases another solo album, 1973, Killing Me Softly. And the hit song from this is... This is with the Fugees, right? We'll get to that.

This is killing me softly with his song. This is a, man, I went on a little bit of a deep dive on the history. Controversial song. So written by Charles Fox and Norman Gimble officially. The inventor of the Gimble. Nope. But a young lady named Lori Lieberman claims to have been not just the inspiration, but they actually took this story from her diaries from her real life.

And they were arguing about this song until, I believe, Norman or Charles one of them passed in like 2018 like they are and I believe we just lost Lori a couple years ago There's some publishing royalties being Well she never got credit but The story goes is that

They were a Lori is an artist and she was the first person To release Killing Me Softly with his song And they went to a club in L.A. And they saw a singer-songwriter Don McLean Of American Pie fame You know bye bye-bye It's American Pie Got my Chevy on the levee

And Lori claims she wrote in her diary some inspiration for what would become killing me softly with this song, and then these two gentlemen... They were killing her softly with a lack of royalties being nailed to her. There was controversy about it. Now, Lori's version never really went anywhere, her original version. However, Roberta Flack heard this song and turned it into something magical. Singing my...

With his words, killing me softly. Eric Gale and guitar Ron Carter on the bass, Grady Tate on the drums. And so I can't see it's the greatest bass drum sound, man. 1973 bass drum sound is the peak bass drum sound. That's the kick. It's when the kick kicks. Right. Like you feel like you're getting kicked.

Gorgeous. This is where my awareness of Roberta Flack comes into play. So I'm in high school in 1996 and the Fugees, the score comes out. No, definitely. It did take you a while to graduate. I was born in 1920. No, I'm in high school in 1926. I remember Jailie Roll back in the 80s.

The 1880s. High school, the score comes out, the Fugis, and... I was a big record. It was a huge record, and I had, like, my first real, like, long-term girlfriend at the time. You were in high school in the 90s? Buddy. Late 90s, even. Really?

High school? I'm old. Wait a second. No, no, no. You'd be young then. 90s. I was in high school in the 80s, my friend. Yeah, I graduated in 97.

High school? Yes, sir. Really? Yeah. Okay. Wait, what do you mean my graduate? I know. That's controversial as well.

Me too. I had my first long-term girlfriend, high school sweetheart, and she would play the Fujis. She'd play this over and over again because her boyfriend, which was me, was like a musician.

Is this Heather or somebody else? No, this is way later. So this is the Fuji's version. Oh, yeah. That really took this song. I mean, this is a monster hit. This was a huge hit. Yeah.

Multi-months. But I remember asked, like, my dad saying, you know, they didn't write this. I know. Yeah. And playing me the Roberta Flack version. I love this version. Yeah, man.

It's slower, too. The intro is slower. But even when they go, it? It is, probably a little bit. Oh, there's that Brow-Bow-Bow-Bow. Yeah.

Refugee All-Stars. That's not Grady tape. That is non-Grady tape. Well, it could be a sample. It could be, yeah. It's not, though. No, it is a nice version. I like what they did.

here though. Yeah. They took the music out of the verse. Yeah. You know what I mean? I forgot about it. It's a good call. Yeah.

Lauren Hill. And she's really like influence and paying homage to Roberta, the way she sings this. Yeah, and actually there's video from Roberta's funeral last month. And Wyclef Jean and Lauren Hill sing this at her funeral

and is a really special moment. Very, very cool. So that was Killing Me Softly, 1973. We are going to, There's another important album that I definitely want to talk to, but we're going to save that one for our, I think, for our desert island. So we're going to skip ahead a little bit to 1977's Blue Lights in the Basement. I remember 77. And this is a bit of a reunion with Roberta Flack and Donnie Hathway.

This is The Closer I Get to You. This is by James M. Tume and Reggie Lucas. Did not. So good, the phaser streams. This is like Ford looking to early 80s. great pop ballads. We're getting there. Yeah.

We're getting there. Yeah, this was on the cutting edge. This is Quiet Storm. Yeah. It is. Long-ass intro. Can't do that anymore. In high school in 1977, but I feel like I would have danced, slow dance.

Oh, yeah. To this. Like when this comes on, all the boys hiding in the corner, like, all right, we got to dance with our girls. Right. Closer I get to you. So, so good. So, sadly.

I was in first grade. The Roberta Flack and Donnie Hathaway make another album in 1979. Donnie passes away later that year, tragically. And the last track I wanted to hit here is another duet where Roberta found actually enormous success in 1983 with a duet with People Bryson. I was just thinking about that. Speaking of like 80s ballads band, this might be. I was going to some dances.

You're probably dancing to this. I was the dude standing over at the side. And when this comes on, DJ puts on. I'm like, tonight I celebrate my love. You're like, Jennifer? I just want to sing like that. I could do that.

I said this with the Johnny Hartman thing. I gave all the money my banking off. The great tape bass drum was peak bass drum. This is not. Early 80s. We started to lose some stuff in the 80s. What we gained? That's true.

You can't have everything. And I just wrote down my first. first quibbara. There's another Jerry Gawthon tune with Michael Masser. Michael Masser. Yeah, you got to get them. Yeah, going in the voicing, yeah. Yeah, I think this was too, like Roberta was such a great dual vocalist.

Like that's a, what a big part of her heritage, of her lineage. I mean, not her lineage, just, you know, what she did. It was such a, it's so cool. I mean, like we talk about her piano playing, her beautiful singing, the restraint, you know, the accuracy and the musicality that probably came out of her piano playing, kind of be the leading force of her music and then the vocals coming later. But her ability to play to comp as a vocalist with others, the same way she could comp with herself in terms of playing. You know, this period, I love this Roberta period. This is when I first got hip to her just hearing on the radio and stuff and it dances, whatever. but it did like this as I started to learn her earlier stuff later and got into the Donnie and Roberta

record deep which was probably at least 10 years later this period I did miss her piano playing that was the main thing you know like a lot of like Nat King I mean all these great vocalist pianists and Roberta really deserves to be in that group of top 10 top 20 pianist vocalists yeah of all time I'd say top 10 but invariably they fall off with the piano playing because they become stars and you know Well, and what you lose a little bit, I think, in the 80s and beyond is some of the earthiness that I think she was so great at living in. I actually kind of hint at it here when we get to some of our categories, but like her sound in the 70s is so grounded. It actually reminds me of like my mom and my aunts in the 70s wearing like earth tones, like women like wearing earth tones and just a lot of like grounded earthiness. Like I don't know.

She feels like in the 70s it's like, have you been? here before? Like, how are you this young and, like, you feel like just grounded with life, you know? An authenticity, a confidence, but a organic, I mean, not USDA organic, but, you know, just... I understand what you know. It's not authenticity. Totally. And like... Maybe a little Mary Mechle thrown in. Yeah, and... In the digital age, you, I think you lose that a little bit. Like, we mentioned the kick drum in 1973. Like, there's something about it that... Oh, my God. When you hear it, it feels like there's a puff of smoke. Yeah. That comes out. And it could have been a puff of marijuana of smoke in the studio back in 1970s coming out.

You don't even like muggles, you... That was the Lewis Armstrong. Thank you. Reference to marijuana. We were all one of them. But yeah, I agree with you. And we'll talk about maybe more of that in quibble bits. So let's get into the categories, though, Peter.

Well, and it's just like the keyboard, like that was very much what you're talking about, that 70s earthy salt of the earth. Maybe I'm mixing my references now. Possibly. But the earth tones thing, the piano very much lends itself, the way she played the piano. 100%. But then this is kind of,

like, as beautiful and as nostalgic as this is with that DX7 sound is great, but it's kind of the opposite. It's like, it's not earthy. It's supposed to be terrestrial or something. Yeah. Extraterrestrial. Yeah, we're getting into like plastic clothing.

You know what I mean? We're well into the 80s where we're going in a different direction. Neon. Neon, exactly. No, it's true. It feels like spacey and, you know. We're going to go to the mall now.

We are going to go in the mall. So, Desert Island tracks. So here's what I got, man. Okay. So this is the album that we skipped over, 1975's Feel Like Make in Love. It was the song we played here in the intro, and this is the track I go to a Desert Island with from Roberta Flack.

I friggin love this song. This was written by Eugene McDaniels. So here's Roberta's version. Can we do that again? Can we do that again from the top and just like how they start? Yeah. There's no setup? The setup is the sprinkle of the road.

One more time. roads. One more time. Just that little roads, Fender Roads, if you don't know, Fender Roads is an electric piano, very popular in the 60s and the

70s and then became digitized in the 80s is now popular. Again, the acoustic versions or the analog versions, I should say, and this little sprinkle. A little sprinkly sparkly. But it's in time too.

It's like, did you hear? We got one more time. I never really noticed that. It's kind of in time, isn't it? One, two, three. I don't know. That's a pro. Who's playing all this?

So there's a ton of folks. So there's... On that electric. She's playing keyboards. Bob James is on this. That might be Bob. Leon Pendervass is on keyboards. Richard T. is on keyboards on some.

They don't specify what, but it could be Harry Whitaker is on keyboard. That's Chuck Rainey. That's Chuck Rainey. I don't know. There's no Chuck Raney on this. There's Anthony Jackson and Gary King. Oh, Anthony Jackson. The sound of

Feel Like Making Love, too. Yeah. Again, that 1975 came home. It's a little bit more advanced than 72 and 73. The thing's happening, high-fi-wise. The shaker?

Man, this was an error. Check out the shaker in the course. Like, like, mix. It's right over here. Yeah. Like, this was like, this is some dudes sitting around mixing for hundreds of hours. Like, wait, place it, let's get the detail right. By the way, this song also has an incredibly great cover from this, from another classic, all-time classic album. Yeah.

This is an all-timer. You know, these two together are like a 40-year handshake, 35-year handshake. DeAngelo from Voodoo. Are we ever going to do this right? We can talk about it. We're going to do Vudo. Voodoo's on the horizon. That's a good bass stream. We talk about high-fi. Quest Love or somebody. We could do a whole series on detail-oriented studio recordings that Slay.

S-L-E-I-G-H. Voodoo's got to be on the list for some deep research. You know, one thing I want to note here that, of course, you know, Roberta Flack, not known for writing songs. She didn't write Killing Me Softly that the Fuji's covered. She didn't write Feel Like Making Love that DeAngelo covered. There is no question that they're covering her version of it. Like those covers, DeAngelo's feel like Making Love

doesn't happen without Roberta. No. She owned the song. For sure. It's not even just the composition. It's she created a vibe that other artists want to include in their... Even on some of the other songs that were covered really well by a bunch of people, huge hits like the Carol King tunes and stuff like that. She's still like she stakes her claim, you know.

Peter, your Desert Island track. My Desert Island track. Well, let me find that again. Did we establish that? Oh, trying times. Okay, so let's play it and then I'll explain it. Should we play this on the way out too, probably? With the band?

Yeah. Ron Carter on the bass. Yes. I think Roberta's piano playing on here is just, what's the chef's kiss? This is just, man, the subtlety. This is from first take from 1969. The way she moves through each of these. Oh, the resolution to fours to the three.

Like, I don't know, man. It's just so. Her touch. This was written by Donnie. The pathway of the song, you know that? Yeah. And Leroy Hudson. This is Ray Lucas, right?

This man, the brushwork, and then when he comes in with the snare? Yeah, Ray Lucas. Oh, that one, what she just did? Yeah. That kind of thing. Ray Lucas on the drums. The drums here. Two.

Cross-stick. Oh. For voicing. So what voicing? She plays the major third, but sings the minor third? Oh. Mother against daughter. One note.

Yeah, I love this track. It's amazing. It is amazing. And like her choices on when to resolve that four and three and when not to. Well, it has such an emotional pull. So the whole thesis for this episode has been the queen of restraint. And I think this, you nailed this, that this really, really, it highlights that characteristic. Over to this ride somewhere.

I think this is jazz. Sue me. I'm telling you, man. I'm climbing up that hill and I'm going to die on that hill. Dude, you're not wrong. I mean, who cares, actually. This is why I think the term black American music can be very helpful when talking about this stuff. Exhibit A.

The musical philosophies are beyond some kind of like marketing guys genre from the 30s. You know what I'm saying? Incredible. And this was right in the era of wonderful, you know, politically active lyrics and songs being presented in a way. Not in 609. Yeah. I'm so sorry about that. We're going to London for our policy.

Oh, this is so bad. Apologies to our UK listeners. Shout out UK, our former listeners across the bone. Apologies. Played Austin hours for my teenagers this weekend. You know, all that playing at the beginning.

So, full disclosure, I do have this as my number one track of my 10 greatest jazz albums of all time. Most popular open studio video of all time. Very, well, I mean, I haven't checked lately, but it was well over a million

views. We'll link to that. But no, that was... By the way, he projects that stat on his house at night, so that when you drive by... No, my hand, it's always like, you... The thing about it, what's interesting, like, I have a bunch of controversial... It's a contrarian list. Sue me.

Literally, people are... I'm currently in litigation on that YouTube video. Deboisier... We're bringing back Debociate. Deboci and Deboci are hard at work for us. But this track, like, I got nothing but... Like, so many people were like, oh, my God, I've never heard that. Thank you.

So I love that. I love these like, so is it jazz? Is it black American music? Is it R&B? It's Roberta. It's Roberta Fleck. That's my desert island track. That could be on one of, like, that's my top five or ten jazz.

I'd be fine like to mix it up with that being my only track on the desert island. You know, I got to tell you something. As I get older, the whole, oh, if you get stuck on a desert island, it's not a stuck for me. It's more of like, is that a retirement plan? Could I get a few records and take them to a desert? I'm down with this. Is that a possibility? You don't, no one, don't come save me anybody.

So you're saying there's a record player on this desert island. Is that true? And that's all I need electricity for it. It's all good, man. Gilligan's Island style. Okay, so bespoke playlist style, if this title, if this was a bespoke playlist on Spotify or Apple Music, I've got a couple good ones and I've got to redeem myself. So I do have Earth's soul because, again, like, especially the 70s, early 70s, Roberta Flack,

there's a, there's an earthiness to the soul of the music. to me that feels just very grounded, very like, I've been here before, you know what I mean, just very authentic and connected to, I don't know, to the earth itself, to the ground itself. Like it feels like something that's always been here. One of those musical moments, you know, so important. I also have Rhodes pop. Roads Pop. Roads Pop. Like a Rhodes Scholar, but to a pop music. But like Rhodes Pop, like literally the Fender Roads Pop. Right, right, right. That's good. I'm a little late on this one, full disclosure.

Yeah, no. Greatest duos ever. Good. But that, well, good, not great. But now I'm thinking, too, ladies that slay singing and play. Sing and play. Oh, I can make this rhyme.

Ladies that slay, sing and play. Perfect. Because I'm thinking, like, who else would be? Ladies that slay, sing and play. Yeah. It's got a rhythm to it. No, because I'm thinking like Shirley Horn.

So this is a playlist in 2005, is that right? It seems like a 2005 title. Right. I'm sitting at home watching Entourage. with my father laughing and how topical all these jokes are and how even-handed they are between the genders.

No, no, I'm just thinking no, these are like, they really just couldn't, it's not just ladies, actually, the ladies are the ones I'm thinking that would be at the top of this list. I'm thinking Shirley Horn, what I'm talking about is like equal, or at least near-equal mastery as vocalist and pianists.

Got it. Right? Nina Simone, obvious. Obviously. Roberto Flack, obvious. Nina Simone, Nak and Cole. You putting Aretha in there? Great pianists. Yeah, Aretha.

Probably a little... Yeah, no, totally. Aretha. Yeah, so that's kind of a fun playlist because that's stuff I like to learn out about. Cool. Yeah. On an Up Next,

what do you think is like the preferred Up Next album if this was streaming? I have a couple. I have Marvin Gay's What's Going On. I think would stream really well next to this. And I also have for a little bit, a little bit more contemporary, who is Jill Scott

Oh nice Yeah I like that I think that would I think there's a sensibility That's similar Yeah I would say Donnie Hathaway extensions of a man

Yeah You know Just because of the connection With that and that record Being such a seminal thing Even though it doesn't have Roberta So maybe it's not his You know his Apex Mal

But solo records I would say Apex I'd say L DeBarge I'm thinking about Oh great And really just DeBarge in general Like early 80s song You son of a gun Yeah that's great

I'm so mad I'd didn't think of that. It's good. Ooh, yeah. Okay. Quibble bits. What do you got? Well, I mean, the only thing directly related with with Roberta Flack, or just

kind of what we've heard, and this is actually more of a quiet storm genre thing, which I actually think is a great, a lot of people kind of like treat quiet storm now like disco or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought it was a wonderful thing. I mean, talking about connecting people with emotion and like listening. I mean, you know, baby making music, as

we used to call it, whatever. Come on now. But I would say that the reverb of that early 80s sound and then what kind of became with a lot of the quiet storm stuff, the reverb, and we heard it from like the 70s record where it was a more direct, like when you have a vocalist like Roberta and Donnie, you know, he kind of missed that because he wasn't with us anymore. But when you start getting in the 80s,

like the vocal reverb just went bonkers, you know. Yeah, if there are. And with Peebo and her, like, and I heard them live. I know. So it's like, and same with Luther Vandross. Like great sound, but I don't know, to me, at the time I thought it was normal. Now I hear it and I'm like,

we have a very, we have a very smart and experienced listener base. I'm sure we've had, in fact, I know for a fact, we have some heavy hitter engineers in our listenership.

If you're an engineer, what happened in the 80s? Why do the vocals sound a bit cheaper, a bit thinner? The reverb is not as impactful as like in the early mid-70s when everything had this incredible depth to it. Tell us technically what was going on there.

Well, some of it is just digital, that's when digital recording started. I understand. But I'm sure there's some, like, nuance that it would be fun to hear. So put in the comments of the YouTube video. Go to YouTube and any engineers. Let us know what it was going on. But I would say some of this, some people are going to be like, no, that was just, that's, that was part of that sound.

And it was part of that sound. It's more of a person. Like, at the time, I loved it and thought it was normal because I'm hearing it on the radio. But now when I hear it, I'm like, I prefer her sound. But it's not like it's so much that it ruins the experience. But it's just different. It's very different. Snobometer.

What do you got on this one? Well, you do yours first, because mine is a direct reaction to yours. I'm going to do a three. I'm going to go 3.1. Yeah, I think. That is the cheapest, price is right move there is, buddy. That is the cheapest price is right. Bullshit prices right move that you could do.

I have no reference point. This could be one, that could be 10. On this kind of stuff, and basically everything at this point, let's be honest, the snobometer is broken, sir. Buddy, it's working better than ever. Well, you and my father, Bill Martin invented it. You invented the snobble meter. He renamed it the snobometer.

Shout out to Bill Martin. Great call on that. But bad call on this thing. It's a simple question, Peter. Ten is it's a snobby album. One is it's not. No. You've told me 10 means Ethan Iverson.

As much as we love Ethan Iverson and my aunt, Linda, we are abandoning that scale because it was caused a confusion. But snobby to who? That's a great question. I don't know. Okay, we'll have to read. Because we're snobs. Let's be honest now.

This whole podcast is about... Look, you're looking at front of an iPad, preloaded, with, you know, Roberta Flack and four pages of copious notes. You're not a snob? Sorry, my tank is broken here. I got to go ahead. Yeah, right. Okay.

Is it better than K-O-B? Is it better than kind of blue? Well, it's not a... I put N-A on this. This is not a... We're talking about an artist's, you know, life's work. The answer is no. No.

It's not an album for... I mean, like, Donnie, Don't remember what I said on Donnie and Roberta on that particular record. I think you might have said even. I might, yeah. I mean, to me, that's... like that's certainly a toss-up in some ways. Acutramus. I'm starting to sour on kind of blue.

I know, you're really, not a lot has... You know what? I'm bored. Acutramans, like the album cover or anything surrounding... Album covers? Album covers. I think they're great.

Yeah, I have a nine on that. I have eight just because I feel like I'm doing too many nines, but it's really good. Well, this was great. Peter, hey, listener. Hey! Hey, listener. Don't go anywhere. Listener.

Remember, leave us a rating and review. This is the time when people start going like, don't go to like... Don't go to that, dude. No, no. You don't want to give them ideas. I'm telling them, please stop, because we know that's coming. We got exciting stuff to tell you. So we get a lot of great ratings and reviews.

If you're on your Apple podcast app, please leave us a rating, five stars only. Seven stars, if you can, which is impossible, but please try for seven. And then leave us a review. Here's the review we got, and we'll read your review here on air. We got a review from Edward SV 1981. And right after we read this, we're going to be playing some. What are we going to play going out? What do you want to do?

Let's play the Trying Times. Oh, that's right. So this is a review from Edward SV. Do you have anything more you want to say before I? I'll wait until you. Okay, thanks. Edward, this is a review from Edward SV. Wait, sorry.

You got a chip on your shoulder there. I pushed it off. I got you. We're getting to this. Caleb, you taking notes? From Edward Sv. 1981, the gold, no platinum standard is the title of the review. Okay, you said that wrong.

I have to interrupt. It says the gold, no platinum standard. He's saying he or she is, he's saying, like he's starting to say gold, but then he's like correcting himself. How'd I say it? You said the gold, no platinum standard. No, I said the gold, no platinum standard.

That's kind of like... Where's the common in the sentence? It's right there. Ask me if I'm a businessman. Are you a businessman? No, I'm a business man. Shout out JZ. Okay, the gold.

No platinum. Standard. This is 100% my absolutely favorite music podcast, so much so that it persuaded me. to become an Open Studio Pro member. That's not nothing, Peter. Hey now. That's a great product in and of itself,

but focusing on the podcast, I'd like to express gratitude. I came back to music after a severe injury, likely took my favorite sport away from me. Open Studio, more than just about anything else, restored the joy of playing music for me. I'm inexpressibly grateful for that. It did so by taking a person

who lost art in his life and replaced it with extremely tangible and measurable interests and a similar profession. I was struggling with reconnecting to the simple joy of playing and listening to music versus trying to just grind on improving while feeling insecure about my abilities. It helped me re-see music, which has helped me re-see life as a journey and not a destination. It's helped me crawl out of a dark place, and I can thank Peter and Adam enough for that. I can't thank Peter and Adam enough for that.

Edward, buddy, that means more than anything else in the world. Thank you for that. And good luck on the rest of your journey. We're so glad that you're with us. Open Studio Pro. Open Studio Pro is one of the great music communities in the whole world. Yeah, live classes. Live classes every day. Filled with incredible folks like Edward who are on this musical journey.

And I love that you said that it's about the journey, not the destination. It's so easy to get caught up into like, I got to achieve this or I got to learn this. Or if I just had this part of my playing or if I just listen to these albums, then I would be good. Then I would be this. Then I would be that. And if I just did this and got this gig. And really, it comes down to living a musical life. That's what this whole thing is about.

If you want to be a musician, you've got to learn how to live a musical life, and that's really it. Music has to be part of your daily existence. Yeah, and what a joy when it is. I think we're preaching to the choir with that, but that is what Open Studio pros. Thank you, yeah.

That's the actualization. Oh, and it's not just for pros. Who's the idiot that named that Open Studio Pro, but it's not for pros? No, it's not, I forget, but it's not just for pros. You could almost call it. It's not even for pros.

I forget who wanted to call it Open Studio live, but that would have been good, too. Open Studio sessions. We're not Open Studio Ploos. Like, you remember Canal Plus? It's good. The station in France. Canal Ploose?

Do I sniff a rebrand happening? Canal Blues. Until next time. You'll hear it.