You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Why Have So Many Pros Come From the Suzuki Method?

Episode Date: January 24, 2020

Peter and Adam discuss why the Suzuki Method is so proficient at producing pro musicians. (No, it isn't about the best way to ride a dirt bike)Calling all pianists - get the Piano Access Pass today! Save money with this bundle featuring every piano course ever from Open Studio, including teachers such as Peter Martin, Geoffrey Keezer, and Helio Alves.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Peter, hey, Suzuki or Yamaha for your motorcycle? Samaha. Yzuki. I'm Adamannis. And I'm Peter Martin. And I'm Mattamanus. And I'm Red Up Knit Ram. This is the you'll hear of podcast.

Daily music advice coming at you. Coming at you today, sponsor by OpenStudio. Go to open studio, jaz.com to check out all of our courses. Peter, what are we talking about? We're talking about anagrams, banana grams. What do you call those when you do? That was quick. We got a backwards.

It was quick. I know. But we actually did two different things. We combined two words and then I screwed it up because I actually said my name backwards, which I believe is an anagram. Yeah, I don't... Is that what your name is backwards?

I didn't put that together. Because I just flip the two first letters of my name. Right, right, which is called, what is that called? It's not... I don't know. I don't think it's called anything. Yeah. So today we are talking about the Suzuki method.

Yes. I always think it's funny because there's the Suzuki method, which is music-based. And then there's Yamaha Pian. which are like 60% of the pianos I play on. Yeah, which is also music base. Which is also music base. But then both those words for in my mind, growing up in High Ridge, are also associated with dirt bikes.

Yes. Like motorcycles. So. And for me, kind of growing up in the city, they're both associated with sort of hot rod, you know, late night motorcycle races down on riverfront drive here. Yeah. I mean, hats off to the Japanese. We're really getting a lot of things right. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? What do you know about Dotson? That's before your time. No, I remember Dotson. for sure. Those were not the best looking cars. Well, the honeybee? Don't sleep on the honeybee. I'm going to look that up. The Dotson Honeybee. Dotson wagons. I learned to drive on a on a on a on a Dotson wagon. But we digress because what we're talking about today is wait, you think the honeybee looks good? Well, at the time with the with the actual bee on the side. Oh, that actually is pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So, okay,

what are we talking about today? We are talking about the Suzuki method, not the most. motorcycle method. So we were talking, you and I have had many conversations about how each other started. We don't have to get a huge history, but basically you started with Suzuki. Your mother was, is a Suzuki teacher. In fact, one of the first in our area. Yes. Yes. It's not the first. Yeah, I believe she was the first. Well, yeah, she brought the method to St. Louis. There was a gentleman named John Kendall, who was over at Edwardsville, Illinois, pretty close by here, that was actually like kind of the American pioneer of bringing it to the states. He went over. I believe before anybody from the States and maybe even Europe to study with Dr. Sinichi

Suzuki in Japan in Matsumoto like in the 60s, maybe even 50s. Yeah, yeah. And then brought it. He was at S.I.U. Edwardsville. And it's kind of a famous thing. He wrote some books to as well and really spread the word, almost like spread the good news like it was an evangelical type of situation. And I'm just, I'm in love with the method. It's been a lot of fun for me over the years to realize and.

to meet so many other pro players that came up in this method. So I'm, I think that the proof is in the pudding at this point. And, you know, now we've got a couple of generations of players. In fact, my mom is still teaching and she's teaching, I believe she's about to have a grandchild of one of her students, which I don't even know how that's possible. Wow, that's great. She definitely has kids of people that she taught when she was young, too. Well, it's because you could start so early, right?

So I did not start with this. I don't, I've actually wanted to do this episode because I have so many questions about what it actually is. I know kind of generally what I think it is, but I'd love to hear your experience with it. But one of the things I know, which is maybe why your mom can have a grandchild, is that you can start really young with this, younger than the traditional method. Yes, yeah. I mean, down to the age of, where really, there's no restriction, but commonly in the traditional Suzuki method, you see it at age two and at age three. Which you can't really with the traditional classical method of, no.

I mean, it's harder for sure. Yeah. And the main thing, I mean, I'll just say this. I've had a lot of experience with it, but I am not a Suzuki trained educator and expert on it, so I don't want to speak beyond kind of my experiences. But my mother was, you know, she went and trained with Suzuki himself in Japan several times. So I definitely come out of the more traditional. There's been different versions.

There's the American Suzuki version. There's ones in France and different things. And it has been changed sometimes for the better, sometimes probably not for the better. But the real traditional concept, the other thing is I study with a wonderful teacher here in St. Louis named Ako Kataoka, who played in the St. Louis Symphony for years. She's actually living back in Japan. Her and her husband played here. And I studied with her from when I was about, I don't know, seven or eight until I was like 12. And she actually studied, was in Dr. Suzuki's very first kind of experimental class in Japan when she was a child. And she's like my mom's age, you know.

So I really got it from the source from her as well. And the thing that really typifies this method is that you learn everything by ear at the beginning. And that's why... Number one is listen. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's why all the stuff we talk about and when I got into jazz

and playing different kinds of music, I was so intrigued by that. And that part of it kind of came natural to me because that's the way I originally learned music on the violin, even before piano. And so my Suzuki upbringing was so strict that, you know, we didn't... You know, AECO's students,

we didn't read music until much later. So at the beginning, you're really kind of too young to even be able to, you know, that's why traditional methods you normally start later because you're like learning the treble class.

Because you have to know how to read a little bit to get going in it. And just kind of long enough to be doing a couple things at once. But that direct connection that little kids have with wanting to play an instrument and stuff, Suzuki really harness that into,

okay, let's turn this into a disciplined approach but really wrap it around love with a parent and a child and the child's watching the parent learn first. I mean, it's a genius approach. So that maybe, that definitely has something to do with it, too. You could start young because it's by ear. You don't have to know how to read yet, which is why you started when you were two or three.

Two on the violin and then three on piano. And then this is something else I knew about it already, but maybe you can go into that further. Mom and dad are with you. Yes. They're like, they're learning with you. Right. And it's usually one or the other, or grandmother or caregiver or anybody, but it's usually one. It's kind of the primary.

And that must help for motivation. Yes. And then for, because hopefully adults could probably, in some cases, at least in the beginning, pick things up quicker. Right. And then you're modeling that for the kid. Exactly. And that's what it's about. So it's a couple.

It's, you know, when you're that age, especially the younger you are, you want to do everything that you see a parent or caregiver, you know, your loved one they're doing. And then, you know, if you have a lesson every week or whatever, all those other days, how are you, you're not old enough to practice on your own or everything. So you're doing it with, with the parent there. Right. So really, the parent has to stay in the traditional method, the parent studies for several months, sometimes even a year. Yeah. And all the kid does is sit there and watch. Now, think about a two, three, four, even five year old just sitting still to watch something in this day and age. What a great thing and what a great discipline. And can anyone still do that? I don't know. Well, I think that's the brilliant part about it. This is the only way they would do that is if is their mom or dad or grandma or something with them doing it. Yeah, because they're going to beat their ass if they don't sit. Oh, sorry. No, but it's true. So, okay, so I'm starting to see. hear why so many pros might come from the Suzuki method is because you start so early, you start

with ear training, which as any musician, that's helpful. But I think especially with jazz musicians, that's insanely helpful. You know, I mean, I started with that, but not with any method. I just started picking out songs off the radio, but I realized later how important that was to my development when I was younger. Yes. You know what I mean? I mean, we see this recurrent theme with great players picking things off the radio, learning to play in church without music, learning from the Suzuki but the things that are kind of common threads with all those is active

activities that foster active ear training that's coupled with the discovery of the joy of music. That's right. You know, it's not just this thing, oh, I have to do this or whatever, it's like, wow, I want to do this and there's no barrier of music or theory or anything in between, not until later.

So you have here now on your list of maybe some reasons why this works so well is attention to detail. Yes. Yeah, so that's a big part of the sort of traditional method and other methods as well, but it's kind of pushed down to an age

that's normally, you know, we kind of shortchanged younger kids, I think, thinking, oh, they're not ready for that. But because, especially because I learned on violin, and actually most of my experience with Suzuki method is on violin, not piano. I kind of learned, I did some Suzuki piano, but that was more kind of traditional

and some other methods. But in terms of the violin, like that instrument it's just so hard to play physically. Physically, it's awkward, yeah. And it's so hard, like it takes so long just to get a nice tone and then the intonation. You have so many different variables.

It starts out as a single-line instrument, so there's that simplicity, but to make something that's even tolerable sounding takes forever. Oh, my seven- and nine-year-old both play violin. I know. Yeah, I've noticed you, whenever it's time for the practice, you call me and say,

let's going to be to have a drink somewhere. Sazirac anymore? I mean, you know, both my kids played violin and play, are still playing. Yeah. And when they were young, actually the main, Even though I came up in Suzuki, they did Suzuki, but my wife Kelly did it with them.

Partly because I was like, I want, part of it is the kid watching the parent learn is so important. So like I kind of already knew it. And so I said it's not going to be great because I'm going to be in there not like great or anything. But you know more than you need to know. Yeah. And so they wouldn't get to see me discovery. So it worked out great with them watching her learn to play and discovering that. But I couldn't be around for those, for any of them, including her as they were learned.

I mean, it sounded horrible, you know. I mean, just from an incination standpoint. So there's so many details. I mean, you spend, like, before you even get a real bow, like, I learned it with chopsticks. That's like your bow, and you have to have your hand exactly right. And it can be a frustrating thing, especially because people's kids' attention span is so screwed up now because they're given three-year-olds. Phones and stuff, and they're used to being dazzled or whatever. Kids, quote unquote.

The kids today. The kids today are giving their kids. All of our attention spans are all messed up right now. What are we talking about? What's going on? I've got to check my Facebook. No, so let's talk a little bit about, so you also have graded nicely in here,

which sounds trivial and maybe a little frou-frew, but I think this is an important part of any, like, I think constructive feedback from a thoughtful and positive place is sometimes much more important, especially for young kids. Yeah. Than like a discipline taskmaster who's just going to browbeat you into submission.

You know what I mean? I totally agree with that. That's actually not what I meant by putting that. But that's interesting. Oh, I thought maybe that's what you did. No, no, no. I think I did. So I met graded.

I mean, the repertoire was set up in a graded, you know, like the progression of it. I thought you meant it was just like, you get a star sticker. Like great job. No, but actually you did. Yeah. No, once you started using the music and stuff, you would get in. Yeah, yeah. Totally.

But also there's, no, that's good. It works both ways. It also gives you like the built in repertoire. And I can still remember. Well, my kids did it too. That's why I remember. but you start with Twinkle, of course. Everybody knows the, you know.

And then you learn rhythm in such an organic way. So you've got, well, it's an A for the violin, D for the cello method is really good. But you start out with on the violin. Oh, interesting. Variations on Twinkle. And so that's the first rhythm. The second one is. Oh, a little.

A little syncopation. A little syncopation going a little short long short. And then. Buster rhymes. Yeah. And then is a little technical work, you know, Bop, Bop, B, B, B, B, you know, this Boeing. Stamina.

Yeah, so, like, it's so well, and Suzuki was a genius of this. I mean, it's just, you know, twinkle, twinkle. So you learn that, you're learning the melody. But then you're getting some of the technical things that you need to start to play the violin with Boeing. Like from the jump. From the jump. But you're also getting this really organic and intuitive approach

to playing with good rhythm. Yeah. And we talked about recently, you know, how to swing and stuff. It's like, this gets you in. in there doing it in getting those rhythms down without way before you're reading, of course. But I mean, the thing is little kids can feel rhythm if you give them a chance. So it lets you kind of connect with that. And there's no like, oh, no, you came in a half bar too early.

No, it's just you're listening and you're imitating. So I think there's a lot to be taken here. Like if you're just starting to learn like jazz piano or something like that, even if you're 35 years old, I think there's lessons to be learned from these kind of successful. Like a young 35-year-old kid? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, you know what I mean? Like, even if you're not a three-year-old kid learning to play the violin, I think that some of these, some of these, the reasons for some of these are just as important for our 50-year-old man learning jazz piano for the first time than it is for a three-year-old playing classical music. Like, things like combining ear training with rhythm from an early, from the earliest that you start can be so important. Like if you're having trouble, yesterday we talked about swing, right? Yeah. So if I were starting over again,

I would even more than I did start incorporating syncopation and swinging rhythms into my scale practice, into things like that, into like, as I'm absorbing what notes to play, I'm absorbing how to play them. And I'm practicing these variations because I'm sure you've had the same experience. I've had to go back over the years and like absorb swinging rhythms as I'm going. Kind of fill in the gaps. You know, you don't know what you don't know. But like if I were to start over again, even seeing this list of things like, you're going to be, you know, like ear training, attention to detail, starting with this sort of mixed system.

Yeah. I think it's super important. And then I love, too, just like choosing the right rep and an organic rep that is good music. Exactly. As you're learning. Like, I encourage my students not to just like, well, just don't learn the tunes because people tell you,

these are the tunes you got to know. You know what I mean? Like, start with tunes you love. Yes. You know what I mean? If you love, there will never be another you. Great. but don't just do it because I tell like because someone said you got to know that for the jam session.

I mean, eventually you'll learn it and you'll have to because if you want to go to the jam session or whatever. But start if you're just starting out, start with something that sounds good to you. Yes. And this, you know, a lot of those themes that you're talking about are built into the method, actually all of them, but it's also built into that repertoire. So but it's combined with because Suzuki was a big believer in having the highest quality music. And so it goes, there's 10 books. And it goes all the way up to book 9 and book 10. My younger son just finished book 10,

which is book 9 and 10 are both just complete Mozart violin concertos. I was going to say he's playing with all the movements. That's the whole thing, you know. That's so funny. But it takes you from this is the beginning of book one. And then, you know, I mean, it's funny because I think I went through book five or book six and you get into like Vivaldi concertos. Like it's in terms of like getting harder, but it's all good quality stuff.

I mean, there's a couple things that are kind of, there's like some sites concertos, which are more like by technique and they're kind of show pieces or whatever, but they have a very specific purpose. And I mean, it's just a really interesting thing. The other thing I would say, in terms of Suzuki really believing in high

quality music, there's recordings of everything, and now there have been several of them, but there's the original recordings, and I'd encourage anyone who has kids or is thinking about this method. Get the original Suzuki recordings with him playing it. He was a really good violinist. Now, there's been some maybe more heralded violinists that have performed, and you

can get the American, there's a bunch of versions. But it's really cool to hear Suzuki's version because you kind of get that direct connection. It's just with piano accompaniment. But they would always have back, I mean, when I was doing it, it was records and then tapes and then CDs and now it's streaming. But there's always a version with just the piano accompaniment so you can practice along with it. Oh, that's fantastic. All the way from the book one up to the Mozart concert. That's very cool.

Well, I think this was just, I learned a lot about Suzuki. Good, because we do this podcast for you, Adam. Well, sometimes I think we should as well. I'm saying tomorrow we're going to do I'm going to learn about how to how to turn a Suzuki or Yamaha bike into a dirt bike an off road but still street legal in high ridge we're going to do that I want to learn something I mean if we want to really go jump some stuff we got to go down to Cedar Hill or Dittmer but yeah let's do it let's do it in the meantime go to openstreview jazz.com check out all of our courses including our piano access pass which is every piano

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