You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Why Top Jazz Players Love Risk

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

It's risky business on today's episode as Peter and Adam chat about why taking risks is inherent to being an excellent musician.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Links From This Episode:Building Blocks of Bass - A new beginner level course from Open Studio that covers the basic, essential concepts of becoming a jazz bassistPentatonics and Playing Out - Adam Maness's new course shows you some simple practice techniques you can integrate to modernize your sound on any instrumentMonday's Open Studio Live Events:1:00 PM - Adam's Daily Guided Practice Session (for Members Only)4:00 PM - You'll Hear It Live on YouTube6:00 PM - Bass Guided Practice Session with Bob DeBoo on YouTubeFor the rest of this week's calendar, follow this linkLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Peter. Hey. You ever play the game of risk? I love that game, man, with the plastic thing and you drop the little coin. No, that's Connect 4. Oh. Yeah. Oh, you're talking about when you got the two teams.

Yeah, yeah. So you got two teams of two and then you bid on each hand and then you put the spades. I think it's spades. That's spades. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm risk. Oh, with the rooks and the horses and then you put the-chess. That's chess.

It's an ancient game. What is risk? No, risk is a game of global domination. Oh. Yeah. Sudoku? Sure. Okay.

I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear podcast. Daily music advice and inspiration coming at you. I feel like our intros are getting better and better, man. I'm not just saying that because we've been doing this for like three years. I feel like it's true. That's hard because I wasn't being authentic because I know what risk is.

I mean, I know, I don't really know. I never played it much. I've never played it. But I know what the game is. I had close friends in high school that had like a legendary months-long game going. Yeah. in their like one of my friends dining room tables that ruin their lives their personal lives. Well, it's crazy because it's like you start out with the potato head and then you put the hair on and then

that's not risk. Oh, that's not risk either? It's not risk. Okay, maybe I am confused on it. So why are we talking about risk today? The hippo where you put, will you try to eat? Hungry, hungry hippos. That's a fun game.

Not as much strategy involved. These are all from the same Milton Bradley, right? Milton Bradley. Okay, yeah, why are we talking about risk? Because jazz players, we talk about. the mindset of a jazz musician. And we were talking earlier and we're like risk, you know, you can't

be risk adverse in your playing to be able to play this music. I think we don't talk about this enough because we're talking about how to practice, hacks for how to practice, ways to tweak your practicing. And I think we don't talk about risk enough. And great jazz players

love risk. Now, I don't mean risk necessarily in their lives. Some people do some, you know, all different ways of looking at that. but specifically in the music, if you look at a great jazz player in their element producing great art, they are going to be on the edge of the ledge dancing around doing their thing. They're going to be on the tightrope without a safety net, you know, performing their art. And the audience is going to be right with them.

And like that's when you get the, I think the pinnacle of all the great things that jazz can be. Like if we think about, and I hate even bringing this up like comparing because everyone's always comparing jazz. the classical music and I hate that so I'm going to do it but it's like you know we think about specific things in classical music that are so great is like you can watch somebody a great virtuoso violinist execute you know a Mozart concerto that you know and it's like oh my god this is coming oh it's going to be so amazing and then they pull it off with this flare or whatever very different in jazz because it's like you're out there and you might know the song but a great jazz player is going to take some risks with that that you didn't even anticipate as a listener and

And that's one of the most thrilling things when they pull it off. And sometimes they don't pull it off, but then they come back around and pull it off the next time. Now, if you're assuming too much risk, and maybe we'll get into that, there is a tolerable amount of risk. But you've got to love some risk. And I think it's important to think about this away from just the performance situation and seek out situations. Now, this might be jam sessions where you're getting involved with some players better than you. That's a risky situation because you, but the risk reward on that is so great. What are you actually risking?

You're not risking death. You're just risking humiliation, right? Yeah, for sure. So let's define what risk means in this context. In the context of performing and specifically improvising like we do in jazz. Yes. What does risk look like? Are you saying painted done?

I'm saying painted done. Okay. So I would say risk is defining it clearly as a jazz musician, is playing something that you can hear to a certain percent, maybe 50 percent, whatever. Not 100 percent. It's not like so understood, but you've got an idea about it. Like you can paint it with some broad strokes at least. You know the color palette.

You know something. You've got an inkling. You've got a twinkle in your eye for something to be played. The risk is to go ahead and play it without working it out exactly how you're going to execute it without knowing exactly how it's going to sound. And most importantly, without knowing whether or not it's going to actually work. Like, is the audience going to be excited or edified or titillated by this thing that you're going to play? And I think this works on both the micro and the macro in terms of like the micro, a note or a short phrase, a riff.

But more importantly, on the macro, like the entire solo. Like the idea, the concept, like the entire performance in a way, you can break it down in a number of ways. But once you assume the mindset of acceptable risk, it's going to permeate everything you're playing to the appropriate level. Now, if you're playing a ballad and you're starting out, you might not be assuming a lot of risk in terms of like you're keeping it very straight, sticking, like really concentrating on tone and whatever else and just executing what the song is. But you're going to move then into a riskier part of your performance. But you've got to assume some risk. if you want to be a great player at some point, because that's really the hallmark of the most exciting.

I mean, can you name me an exciting jazz performance that was totally risk-at-verse? No, I've never walked away from a great gig as a listener or a player and been like, oh, that was just so safe. It was so nice and safe. Right. Exactly. Ever, not one. Man, they played exactly what they knew they could play

and they executed 100% on it. I knew everything that was going to happen, and it all happened. And it all happened. Right. So that's, and really this is just storytelling one-on-one, right? Sure. I mean, it's our jobs to set up expectations and then defy those expectations.

Right. And so we're doing this. We're not writing a script. Well, we are writing a script, but we're doing it spontaneously. That's the improvisational part about it. So there's an inherent risk to improvising anyway because we're not scripting it, except in real time. Yeah, there's always that. So depending on your skill level, that can be the first assumption of risk.

And I think that's why people, I mean, look, human beings, we are been bred over thousands or millions of years, how long we've been around to be risk adverse from certain situations like death, you know? If there's a line coming up on you, you're going to, you know, you're not going to be like, I love risk. Let me stick my head in there. You know, we just said, like, you know, getting to perform in front of people, that's not like death is on the line. But, you know, just to your point here about evolutionary biology. I've seen. No, but about evolution.

Have been to Albania? Those audiences are tough. Yeah, that's true. But just from like an evolutionary standpoint, actually, you know, embarrassing yourself, alienating yourself from the herd, means death. That's right. For human beings. Like we are herd animals, not herd animals, but we're village animals. And so if we do something that would get us alienated from the group, that has not just social consequences, but until about 10,000 years ago,

actual life and death consequences. Well, not just 10,000 years ago. If you've ever done a scientific study, if you stand outside of Smalls Jazz Club New York, and you count the number of young jazz players going into a jam session going down, not all of them come out alive. Just saying.

That got really dark. Sorry. That was a joke. That was a joke. I was taking a risk with that joke. Yeah, I mean, you got to do it. Jokes especially. So how can we practice?

It's easy enough to say you have to be willing to take risks when if you're going to be a jazz musician it's like you know to drive a car there's an inherent risk with driving an automobile but it's a lower level of risk if you're just driving around town and you're not getting on the highway or if you're getting on the highway in Italy and driving maybe a little bit more risk because they're driving a little bit more flamboyantly or if you're getting on a formula one or as they say in France formula oh speedway and you don't know what you're doing very risky But if you're out on a Formula One race with a bunch of pro drivers, it might seem risky. But to them, as long as everybody's pro level, not very risky, actually.

But they are still taking on risk because they're trying to go next level with it. So it's like, you know, the amount of risk that we can take it. That's why the better players, and we always come back to Herbie, because I think he's such a great exemplifier of a risky and extemporal. Explore it. Like he's that great intersection of risk and exploration in almost everything he plays. Like every time I hear him, I'm like, wow, he's really good, but he's not satisfied with just playing the stuff he knows he can play. Like he knows when to take that. Keep it stylistically within what he does. But then take the audience on a journey with his own risks and make it an exciting thing every time. So it's not like, oh, Herbie's back in town. I heard him last year. It's going to be the same old tunes. Never. It doesn't, well, it might be the same tunes, but it's never. going to be the same performance. Yeah, yeah.

He might have a key tar on him this time around. You never know. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, he'll take the risk that, you know, the sounds not even going to work because he's prancing around with the key tar. Sometimes just risk on some of those silk shirts. Is this your risky music? Yeah, I took a risk. I thought I'd try something new today and just kind of soundtrack our podcast.

So hold on. I have a question to you directly about risk. So if I'm not mistaken, though, it does not mean just sounding sloppy, right? No, no, no. Yeah, let's talk about some ways not to take risk. Because I could take risk here as I'm doing this and just as you're talking, just be like, bad people. That'd be a risk. And I'd be like, whoa, that sounds like crap.

Well, I'm taking a risk, man. Yeah. So how do we do, how do we know that our risk is within the spectrum of like acceptable risk? You know what I mean? Yeah. But that's also adding something. I think it, you know, sometimes taking a risk just means being more yourself. in the moment, being willing to risk showing what you're, like, you know, I would say just even doing this music here, I had an idea, I thought I'd go with it.

We could stop this. You could be like, never do that again. I could be like, ah, shoot, yeah, that was a risk. But if you got that kind of mentality that's like, you know what, I'm glad I tried it. Yeah. First of all, that's how you get to the good. See, now you get this some good stuff, you know. So it's like that's how, like you can't get to the good stuff before going through the valley of death.

I don't want to get a little dramatic now. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. But I like what you're saying about, like, being yourself, because you have to have an extreme amount of self-awareness to play this music successfully, I believe. And I'm taking that more as, like, a scientific study in that all the great players that I've come across

have a great level of self-awareness. They might have many flaws personally, but not that one. And so I think that that's when you have a high level of self-awareness about yourself as a musician, which really the more skillful you become becomes about yourself as a person and what your story is, then you're able to temper your risk because you know, like I can't take the risks that Herbie Hancock can because I'm not at that level. And I'm not Herbie, most importantly.

So if I try to take, and like you see a lot of people stumble in this way, if you try to put yourself in somebody else's, like that's the least amount of self-awareness when you're trying to be aware of yourself and you try to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and then take on their risk. Yeah. So you got to find where you are and then how far can you bend yourself? How far can you stretch yourself? So you go out on that ledge, but it's your ledge. You go out on that tightrope, but it's your tightrope.

It's not, you know, and you don't have to compare it with other people. You just need to make sure you know your tightrope. And then the other element that has to go with that is just extreme concentration. it. So just like somebody on an actual tightrope, like once you decide to take the wrist, you can't just be like, you know, oh, I'm going risky. I'm getting frisky. I'm getting jiggie with my riskiness. You can't do it. No, it's about going there and then saying, okay, now I'm going to zone in. Just like you go on that tightrope, it's like, okay, now it's time to work. Now it's time to take the wrist and execute. Now, luckily, as you said, it's not like we're in the tightrope business

without the net. We don't die. If we fail, we can get back up. Try again. I love it, man. I love it. This has been an inspiring podcast for me. I'm here to serve. So, folks, you'll hear it listeners. Think about taking some risks next time you play. We can practice this even so much easier to practice on a gig.

But play the tunes you're working on and say, you know what? What risks am I going to take? And when you fail, don't look at it as counterproductive. Look at that as productive. Be excited when you fail. Because you're growing, you know. You've got something to get back up and try again, to try that risk again. This is not brain surgery, so the risk is not going to kill anybody.

So be willing to take those risks. Because that's how we're going to serve others when we perform. That's how we're going to make this exciting to people. Because we're not playing something to date. We're not playing a Mozart concert that they know where all the artistries laid out for us. We've got to create that artistry. Shots fired to classical musicians there. No, big shout out to all my classical brothers and sisters.

Wolfgang Amadeus. Go to OpenStodiojazz.com to check out all of our courses, including the new course, Petotonics and Playing Out by yours truly in checkout. That'll give you some risks. I give you some material for rest. Playing out is always a risk. And then don't forget to check out Bob DeBoo's new bass course, building blocks of bass, awesome, targeted course for beginner and intermediate bass players.

Peter, you got anything else? That's it. Until tomorrow. You'll hear it.