Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - AskHala: Launching A Podcast From Production To Marketing

Episode Date: September 16, 2022

Join Hala and YAP Media’s production manager, Jason Ames, as Hala dives into how she entered the podcasting space, how she landed big guests in YAP’s early days, and how to properly speak on air. She also gives marketing and branding advice to anyone interested in starting their own podcast.  Sponsored by: Shopify - Go to shopify.com/profiting, for a FREE fourteen-day trial and get full access to Shopify’s entire suite of features ClickUp - Sign up today at ClickUp.com and use codeUse code YAP to get 15% off ClickUp's massive Unlimited Plan for a year! The Jordan Harbinger Show - Head to jordanharbinger.com/start to get started today! Ethos - Go to ethoslife.com/YAP to get your free life insurance quote today More About Young and Profiting Download Transcripts - youngandprofiting.com   Get Sponsorship Deals - youngandprofiting.com/sponsorships Leave a Review - ratethispodcast.com/yap Watch Videos - youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting Follow Hala Taha LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Instagram - instagram.com/yapwithhala/ TikTok - tiktok.com/@yapwithhala Twitter - twitter.com/yapwithhala Learn more about YAP Media Agency Services - yapmedia.io/ Join Hala's LinkedIn Masterclass - yapmedia.io/course  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode of YAP is sponsored in part by Shopify. Shopify simplifies selling online and in-person so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash profiting. You're listening to YAP, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halla Taha, and on Young and Profiting

podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession, or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research

and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of XFBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, had to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast.

What's up Young & Profiters! We are kicking off our third edition of Ask Hala Anything. I'm here with my production director, Jason Ames. And he's got some questions prepared for me from my understanding. Today's show focus is going to be all about podcasting. And I am the podcasting princess. So happy to answer any questions about that topic today, Jason. Yeah, I'm excited. I always love talking about podcasting. And we got a lot of podcast questions.

When we first went out and we're asking people for questions and yeah, so I'm excited to jump into it with you here today. Cool. Cool. Let's bring the energy and get these podcast questions rolling. All right. So let's just jump into it here. You've shared your story quite a bit about So let's just jump into it here. You've shared your story quite a bit about doing the podcast, coming from Disney and all that stuff. I'm curious when you were first thinking about wanting to launch the podcast, like what went into that idea was, did you see this as an extension of the stuff

that you were doing previously on radio, or was it something you were just going to experiment with, or were you all in from day one? What was that transition like for you into the podcasting world? Is it your question or did somebody ask it? This was from ZIZ. Ziz. Ziz. Ziz.

Ziz. All right, Ziz, you want to know how young and profiting came to be and how serious I was about it? is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, interview like people like soldier boy and fabulous and talk about their relationship life and silly things and do like hot or not segments. And it was like really fun, but it wasn't very meaningful, right? And when I started a young and profiting podcast, I really wanted it to be meaningful. I wanted it to help people. I wanted people to learn. And basically what had happened is in my 20s, I was like really broke. I was a failed entrepreneur,

I was trying a lot of stuff and getting a lot of experiences, but not really making a lot of money. And then finally I got a corporate job at Hula Packard, and I started making my first six figures I got promoted one after the next in terms of my career climbing the corporate ladder. And I started doing really well, and I started kind of having all this extra time at work because I was crushing my job

I was already there for like four years and I felt bored and Actually what had happened is I was running a side hustle within Hewlett Packard and that's what actually triggered me to start the podcast So I was doing the thing called the Young Employee Network I was president of it for two years it took up a lot of my time Then I was the recruitment chair of the Global Young Employee Network. I was president of it for two years. It took up a lot of my time. Then I was the recruitment chair of the Global Young Employee Network

running like 7,000 Young Employees at Hula Packard. Then I was supposed to be president of that organization and they didn't give me the role. In fact, they didn't even put me on the board. So I found myself with like five hours of free time a day because I used to do my job in four hours and then run the Young Employee Network in the other four hours

I was at work. And so all of a sudden I had all this free time and I felt bored and I felt like, well, if I can't be the voice of the 7,000 young employees that you let Packard like I thought I was going to be I'm going to be the voice of 7 million people all over the world and and use my previous skills to launch Young & Profiting Podcast. So I remember it was New Year's of, it was turning 2018 and we were sitting, I was at Hulett Packard, we were having like a party before break, we always go on break for like 10 days when I worked in corporate for Christmas break.

And we were doing New Year's resolutions and I remember going around the room and this was January, December of 2017 and people were like, what is your New Year's resolutions. And I remember going around the room, and this was December of 2017, and people were like, what is your New Year's resolution? And I remember telling everyone, I'm gonna launch a podcast over break. I thought it would take 10 days. And I didn't, obviously,

and I took it very seriously, though, and I started on break, working on my podcast, and I didn't end up launching until April of 2018, but from that whole time, I was super consistent in planning my show. And then I launched my LinkedIn profile and the podcast at the same time. And really everything took off pretty much right away.

I mean, like, especially for podcasts at that time, I was getting a lot of super fans, I was getting downloads. Probably the first month I got like 4,000 downloads a month, which for a new podcast is great. And then it was like steady study. And then two years into it, we really blew up. So in terms of the question,

was I really serious about it? Yes, was I really intentional about it? Yes. Did that answer the question? Yeah, yeah, I have some follow up questions to that. So to me, having launched quite a few podcasts, your launch was definitely a success, right? Like you were able to get fairly big name people

early on and 4,000 downloads in your first month. That's really good for most people. What do you think it was that you did differently that enabled you to have that kind of early success? I think the biggest thing was I was such a good marketer. And I think the reason why I attracted so many listeners and even volunteers, so I think a lot of my listeners know this. By episode eight, I had 10 volunteers in a Slack channel

and they were all super fans of the show. It was people who literally reached out and was like, oh my god, I love what you're doing. How can I help? I want to, I want, this is important work and I want to help move it forward, right? And so I feel like I was so digitally savvy at the time. So this is five years ago.

I was video editing, I was making audiograms, I was putting out content that really stood out on social media and just going the extra mile. And then also I was just really scrappy and action oriented. So I remember emailing my favorite author of all time, Dr. Jack Schaefer. When I first had my first episode, it was, I knew it was going to be about first impressions, right? I thought that was such a cute idea for the first episode, first impressions.

They'll do an episode, you know. And I targeted 20 authors. and they were all top people. I started from the top. And I remember I emailed them, and I also sent them a LinkedIn message, and I told them about my track record. So I didn't have the downloads. I didn't even have a live podcast yet, but I was like, listen, I used to have a blog.

I was one of the most popular entertainment sites. I've had online radio shows previous to this. I've been in corporate and have not done this for four years, but I know all the elements to this. I'm going to promote it super hard. Like take a chance on me. I think you'll, you know, you won't regret it. And I put out those solicits and I asked 20 people

who were experts in first impressions and human behavior to be on my podcast. And two people said, yes, Dr. Jack Schaefer and Dory Clark and they were both on my first episode. But 18 people said no. But here's the thing, I kept reaching for the top. I never was like, well, 18 people said no, so I'm gonna start like lowering my expectations.

No, by episode five, I had David Allen, huge guy, 23, I had Chris Voss, right? 32, I had Stephen Kotler, I just kept leveling up, leveling up, leveling up. And then that helped me get names bigger and bigger, easier because I could be like, oh, Chris Voss came on, David Allen came on. And you know, at the time,

there wasn't that much competition, especially from a young girl doing a business podcast. And so it was pretty easy to land guests. It's harder now, surprisingly. Yeah, good stuff. And there one thing that stood out to me was just the volume. And like the ratio of reaching out to 20 people and getting two people to accept that. And I think it's easy to feel frustrated in the beginning when you're getting those nose and people feel like it's not working. When in reality, they just need to increase volume. Right? Like it could work. It's

just they're not doing enough outreach. Or change the messaging. I mean, we do this all the time at YAP. I'll do a camp, we do campaigns all the time, whether that's to get sponsors, whether that's to get guests, clients. And if we get no bites, my immediate thing is, who are we targeting and what is the messaging?

And oftentimes, the person who we're targeting is wrong or the messaging doesn't align with the person who we're targeting. wrong or the messaging doesn't align with the person who we're targeting. So everything needs to be right in order for it to work. And getting two yeses out of 20 is actually great. You know what I mean? Like your expectations, you need to realize that like, it's mostly gonna be nose.

Yeah, and something to keep in mind there too, is it's like a lot of those are gonna be nose and it has nothing to do with you. Yeah. Like a lot of those are gonna to be knows and it has nothing to do with you. Yeah. Like a lot of those are going to be knows and they just don't do podcast appearances or they're traveling or there's some other reason and not to take that as like a personal rejection or failure of the show. It's just you need to find those connections that are available. And by the way sometimes it takes years to get what you want. I remember I landed Charles DuHig and I reached out to him like month one, right? And it's so funny to go back in my DMs and see that like I'll reach out to these people

in 2018 and then I actually get the appearance in 2021 or 2022. It's so funny to look back, but sometimes you're just not at that level and you need to realize that too. Some people have criteria that you need to hit and they're not gonna engage you until you hit that criteria. And sometimes you get so big that those people proactively reach out to you later on. Like, oh, I remember you reached out to me back then,

I'd love to come on now and ha ha, now I'm too big for them, right? So. Some times it happened. You're like, yeah, maybe you'll receive. I definitely have a lot of people that are like, you'll be blew up. I remember in 2018, you asked me to be on your show.

And I'm like, yeah, sorry, I don't watch you anymore. I miss the boat. Do you know, like, which guest you spent the most time, or maybe the greatest length of time hunting down before, like, finally said, yes, to come on your show. Oh, that's a good one. So like Jim Quick, I just did the interview with Jim Quick and I feel like I've gotten intro to him so many times and it's just like never worked out and then finally we landed him.

It was so cute when he came on. He was like, congrats on your show. Like I've been hearing about you so much and that's because it's like, I've been putting you in people's ears to tell him about me So he's just like probably even think something bigger than I am because he's like man everyone's telling me about holla, right? So I don't have like a clear example of like somebody that I really Targeted but I can give you examples of like the types of scrapiness and like how like cut the road I can be I remember I saw Matthew

McConaughey get interviewed on LinkedIn by this girl who didn't even have a podcast. She just had look a LinkedIn live and my LinkedIn was like double her size and I'm like how the heck did she get Matthew McConaughey and why is he going on the show? That's not even real podcasts. He probably thinks it's a real podcast but really it's just a live show. So I sent him an email. I found the contacts for his team. And I sent a screenshot of my podcast ranking at the time I was number one. This was January of 2021.

I just got on the cover of Podcast Magazine. And so I was like, I'm number one in my category. I'm on the cover of Podcast Magazine as a podcast princess. You're going on shows that are much smaller than mine. I'd love for you to come on. Yeah. And it was a very short and sweet screenshots proof that I was bigger than the other shows that he was on. And they were like, yeah, let's do it.

And that's how I got Matthew McConaughey. And so I feel like I often use strategies like these. And I just leverage everything that I can. If I hit number one, I'm taking a screenshot and I'm using that to do guest outreach. If I get some sort of important press article, I'm using that to get bigger and bigger guests. So I think being scrappy and creative is where it's at. Back in the day, messaging people on LinkedIn was really innovative.

All these celebrities were on LinkedIn and nobody was DMing them. And so I would send them a personalized note in their invites. And then if they accepted it, send them a DM. And that And so I would send them a personalized note in their invites. And then if they accepted it, send them a DM. And that's how I closed Robert Green, Chris Voss, Stephen Kotler, like all these huge guests that I had in the beginning. Now, I don't think that strategy works because I think everyone is contacting them on LinkedIn.

You need to think of the next thing. I think it's Twitter because Twitter is sort of like dead right now and everyone's still on Twitter. So, reach out on Twitter DMs and see if that works. Reach out on TikTok. Like be innovative and different. You can't just do whatever. Now everyone is reaching out on LinkedIn, so I don't think it works. So I'm hearing in there like a lot of Holla's expertise to how you had success with your podcast. You're like, well, you know, I was already on

radio and like how to marketing background and all these things. So you were definitely well prepared to take on this challenge of launching a podcast. So I'm curious, someone who doesn't necessarily have the same background as you if they came to you, but they shared like that passion for launching a podcast. They really wanted to do it. Do you have any top suggestions? Like top three things you would recommend to them who's just entering the podcast space right now of how to go about launching a podcast? Yeah.

First of all, I'll say that I took a four-year hiatus in radio. So when I started again, I was really rough. I remember listening back and being like, wow, I need to better pronounce my words. So one tip off the bat for any new podcasters is that you need to over exaggerate how you move your mouth if you want to be super clear in what you're saying. So I remember my first couple podcast episodes, I would listen back and I'd be like, gosh, like I'm mumbling. I'm not being super clear. This is okay for day to day conversation, but not for a podcast. And so I do notice when I go on other people's podcasts that sometimes I'm like, gosh, I'm mumbling. I'm not being super clear. This is okay for day to day conversation, but not for a podcast.

And so I do notice when I go on other people's podcasts, that sometimes I'm like, wow, you need to move your mouth bigger because you need to enunciate everything that you're saying clearly and you do that by moving your mouth like overdoing it. You know what I mean? So you can be super clear. So that's one tip off the bat. Listen to what you sound like on a recording

and maybe you need to slow down your pace. Maybe you need to speak louder. Maybe you need to position your mic differently, and maybe you need to pay attention to your arms and your eyes and your likes and your nose, right? So just being a better speaker comes with practice reps and paying attention and being conscious of the things that you're not the best at,

and then figuring out solutions to help counteract those negative things, right? So one, listen to yourself, make sure you sound professional and super clear because people don't like to listen to people who are hard to understand. You know, it's just not a great listening experience and people are gonna avoid your show for that reason. So I think speaking clearly,

I think understanding your strengths and weaknesses when it comes to marketing. So I think speaking clearly, I think understanding your strengths and weaknesses when it comes to marketing. So I think everybody should learn how to use something like Canva, right? So Canva was a tool that even five years ago I used. They don't sponsor me or anything, surprisingly. But I would highly recommend learning how to make graphics on Canva, taking a few courses on design and understanding what good design looks like, being a little bit thoughtful about the types of content that you're putting out there and how to make it look professional and polished. In terms of videos, I used to leverage things like headliner.

It's an app back in the day before I had a professional video team. That really helped me also potentially outsourcing if you can afford it, especially international resources can be quite affordable, even at a part-time scale. So, really thinking about your marketing plan and what you're good and not good at, and leaning into that, because there's no point to put out a podcast that you're not promoting. It's a waste of time, and too many people I think are doing that, they're putting out episodes that nobody's listening to, and some of them have these shows for years and people don't listen to them, and so waste of their time.

So I would say really figuring out how you can level up your marketing skills or outsource them. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors. Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea but you don't know how to move forward with it? Going into debt for a four-year degree isn't the only path to success.

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Go right now for 50% off your no risk 2 week trial at trinom.com slash app. That's trinom.nom.com slash app for 50% off trinom.com slash app. I would love to hear more about like practical steps to marketing a podcast. I think one thing that I've heard often which I think is good advice and I'll put a pen to come back to this point later,

but I think where I always start people when they come to me and they want to launch podcasts is like the first thing that we have to do is get super clear on what your goals are and what success looks like for you because success and podcasting can look like a lot of different things, but if you don't clearly define that for yourself, then it's hard to know if you're moving towards the direction that you were trying to move. Like if you just have the rough goal if I want as many downloads as possible, that's always gonna be a losing battle

because everyone always wants more downloads and no matter what stage you are and like how many downloads you're getting right now. So we can come back to that, but the... No, I like this. I like this. I thought maybe I can kind of come up with the steps I would take. And this is off the top of my head, so it's not going to be perfect, guys.

But I guess the first thing that I would do if I was to launch a podcast would be first to come up with who I'm targeting and why. So who's the audience that I want to target? So before I think of the name or the format or anything, I would think of who's my audience that I want to target? So before I think of the name or the format or anything, I would think of who's my audience that I'm targeting and why. So for example, are you targeting people who will buy your book or buy your course? Or are you targeting women or men or millennials or Gen Z? Like, who's your actual target audience?

And then think about, how am I going to generate ROI from this show? Or do I care to generate ROI from the show? So for me, when I launched Young and Profiting Podcast, I was getting paid over six figures, not even 30 years old, at a corporate marketing job. I didn't care to make money, and I think that's actually what attracted so many listeners to me because it wasn't about the money,

it was about giving value to the world. I literally thought I would never make money on my show. And I didn't care about making money on my show. I didn't think about it from that approach personally because I didn't care about money. I just wanted to be a voice for the millennial generation. But I knew my target audience, which is why I called it young and profiting. I wanted to target professionals, which is also why it was young and profiting because typically it's young professionals that are young and profiting, right?

And so I knew my audience. So I'd say audience is number one. Who you're targeting, right? How are you gonna generate ROI? And there's a couple ways to generate ROI. It's through the people that you're targeting as the listeners of your show who might buy low-ticket items like a book or a course. And then it's the guests that come on your show who might be advisors or investors or high ticket clients, like for YAP media, most of our clients are people who guest on my show and then learn about our social services and podcast services and then end up becoming my client, right?

So I have like dozens of examples of that. So how are you generating our life on your show would be number two. And like, you know, the different audiences that you have, who are you going to be interviewing? I think it's part of this audience activity, you know, who are you actually interviewing on your show? If it's an interview show, then it's the title. So important. I think one of the biggest mistakes that I made was calling young and profiting, young

and profiting. Biggest mistake, also best mistake. I don't know how to consider it. I love the name and I love YAP. I wouldn't change it now, but back then, it was really hard to get organic SEO because nobody is searching for younger profiting. How do I call it, young entrepreneur or young professional?

I don't know, maybe I would have gotten more organic reach in the beginning, but whatever, I can't change the past, right? You more organic reach in the beginning, but whatever, I can't change the past, right? You just got to keep moving forward. If I was a new podcast, or I would think of a really good name that has SEO, meaning like people would type it in Google, or people would type it in the podcast app. So that means if you're not famous, you're not going to call it like the Joe Schmoh show,

right? You're going to call it like whatever you're doing to talk, like what is the action that you want your listeners to learn, is it like, I don't know, top entrepreneur podcast, that will do much better than the Joe Schmoh Show. So think about the keyword that you wanna put in your title. Then you wanna also think about your content

and your format, right? So is it an interview show? Is it a documentary series? Is it seasonal? Is it weekly? Is it daily? And all that stuff really matters because you need to have a good strategy that is realistic for you to keep up with

because the most important thing is being consistent, right? So if you don't think you can put out a weekly show, don't start a pot, like, you know, like you need to make sure that you know that you've got the time for it. There's, pod fate is real thing. Most people launch podcasts, they don't get any results, and they're done after seven episodes, right? So there's a millions of podcasts out there

that are just not like dead and inactive. So you wanna think that through and be consistent. And then marketing strategy. So in terms of launch, I would say launch like six to eight to 10 episodes off the bat, right? Have a backlog so that if you get sick or if somebody cancels on you, if you have an interview show that you're consistent, like I said, like releasing episodes on a consistent basis is how you're going to grow and retain an audience.

Because here's the thing, a lot of people think it's all about attracting a new audience. It's also about keeping your existing audience and you do that by being consistent. So I'd say launch six to eight off the bat. Part of the reason why you want to launch so many at one time is you want people to binge. So like algorithms and rankings have to do with download counts for the last two weeks or so. And so you want people to have more than one episode to consume if they like your show and kind of get hooked.

And then you want to consistently release some out of consistency schedule. So you might want to have like 10 episodes prepared so you can launch like six of them and then have four in the backlog at all times and then keep growing that backlog. So that would be my initial advice. Yeah, lots of good stuff there that I want to, I want to dig into, I think, starting with that target audience is really, really great. And gearing the content from the beginning towards that audience, I think a lot of times I'll do consultations with people and they have an idea for a podcast and it's like

That sounds like something you would really be interested in and listening to and maybe just you 100% yeah, and Yeah, it's happened to me so frequently where somebody comes to me with an idea. And basically, their idea for the show is it's going to be mostly solo episodes of me just sharing my thoughts and ideas with people. And that strategy is extremely difficult to pull off because you basically have to be like a content machine to be able to pull that off consistently.

And then you miss out on so many of the benefits of podcasting, which is like building relationships with the guests. And yeah, we could go further into that. I would be interested in exploring that. But I did wanna bring up the, what you said about the ROI. If, sorry, I'm laughing. I'm just remembering this consult that I did one time

where this kid was like desperate. I was like, I need this to work. Like I'm laughing. I'm just remembering this consult that I did one time where this kid was like desperate I was like I need this to work like I need money. I need to I need to grow an audience and monetize the podcast I Straight up told him it's not gonna happen dude Oh my god people are like how fast am I gonna monetize this show? It's like I don't know how hard you're gonna work Like you know, it's like hard work toize this show? It's like, I don't know how hard you're going to work. Like, it's like hard work to grow a show. It's not. Yeah, it's really hard.

And I think probably if I had to guess one of the things that allowed you to be so successful is the fact that you weren't focused on ROI. And like, yeah, you went into that from the beginning of, of this wasn't a means to another ends for you. Like the podcast itself was the end that you were looking for. Yeah. And by the way, I leverage other things

that are easier to monetize to invest in my show and grow it. That's the key. So at first it was my corporate job that I was crushing and making a lot of money at Hewlett Packard and Disney Streaming Services. I was funding YAP. Actually YAP cost me money the first two years. I probably spent 40 grand a year running YAP, whether that was paying my audio engineer, our marketing logos, or whatever, a spending 40 grand a year out of my own pocket to build this brand and invest back in the show. Then I made all that money back with sponsorships once the show blew up, but it took a while

of investing, investing, and the second way that I got money to really grow my show was the media agency. I think a lot of people know this story. The guests that would come on my show, they'd end at the end of it and be like, can you do this for me? I used to say no. Until finally, I said, yes, I can, I can I'll try. And then I started this whole marketing agency that very soon

gave me way more money than my corporate job. I ended up leaving my corporate job. But the real gift of this marketing agency is that suddenly I had like 20K a month in marketing that I could give myself for free. I basically would stand up teams for other people and they would pay for my marketing. And so instead of having a team of interns,

I had a team of six paid employees who were only focused on my social media, my show, and so it totally skyrocketed my podcast, my agency, and it growing is in perfect alignment of when my show blew up, and that's not an accident. It's because I literally had the money to invest in media buying, to invest in my marketing, and to proactively bring people to my podcast. Then I grew my podcast enough to get sponsorships, and I made all that money back.

So I think understanding that your show is going to need investment to actually grow and get sponsorships, but your show can be a lead generation tool for your business. And so that's how you can kind of use that money to invest back in the growth of your show to eventually get sponsorships. Yeah. So basically what I've seen with podcasting is I've really only seen three effective ways to grow show. And you touched on one of them and that was being willing to make a substantial investment in the marketing. That's like not what people want to hear, but it's probably the most, the best way to

do it if you can afford it. And it's not a small investment. It's like three to the best way to do it if you can afford it and it's not a small investment It's like three to five K a month Lee's if not like I mean I was trying to make it as reasonable as possible It depends on like how big you want to get so for example I had a billionaire client and he wanted to get as big as me He was getting 200 downloads in episode at the time. I was getting probably like 15,000 downloads in episode and to get as big as me. He was getting 200 downloads in episode. At the time, I was getting probably like 15,000 downloads

in episode. And to get him there, it took like six months of, you know, 20K investments. And then he became a huge show overnight, basically. So it's like, yeah, so you can basically pay your way to become a top podcast. And this is a real thing, right? So that's why people who are like TV celebrities

or like Oprah, they've got an advantage because they can just pay to become the top. Even then though, they have trouble because you need to have good content to retain those listeners. And you also need to have good media buying strategies because a lot of stuff out there is like BS. So you need to know what you're doing.

Yeah. And if you need help with that, you need to know what you're doing. Yeah. And if you need help with that, you can email Hala. Yeah. So the three different ways. One, being willing to make a substantial investment, you touched on a second one there, which is correlated with the other one, which is to already have a large engaged audience. Yeah.

Even then, though, it's very hard to pull people from social to your podcast so you need a strategy to actually funnel people to your podcast that's effective. Usually that's the dams. Yeah, and then the third one, which is probably the hardest one is to have a niche podcast on a hot topic that is searchable. Yep, so a great example, Millennial Investor, right? So Millennial Investor is, so this is a pod, he's been on my podcast, I think his name is Robert Leonard, right? And he's part of this, he had one slight advantage, he's part of the investor's network or some sort of network that was already really popular, but essentially he has no marketing, he has done no marketing.

He has no social media following, but his podcast name is Millennial Investor and apparently people search for that. And so he has a show basically as big as mine and has done no investment because he just had a really good name, really good niche and he owns that niche. Yeah. And we've definitely seen that even within our network, we have the Murdoch Family Murders podcast. And it's a very niche topic.

Like they're following a current event that's happening right now. And if you search Murdoch Family Murders, their podcast comes up. It's like one of the first thing that comes up. Yeah, so it's like a super hot news story right now. And so there's only one other podcast that talks about that. So it's like one or the other is where you're gonna get your fix if you want like a true crime story about the Murdoch family murders.

So that's a great example. And they're crushing. They're showing's doing better than mine right now. It's like, we're always in the chart. We're always in like the, the megaphone account. Like, wait, what the heck? How is it doing with that? Good.

Another example of that, one of my favorite examples is from Eric Jacobson who owns a podcasting PR company called Lemon Pie. And their podcast is called Brands that Podcast. And their target audience, guess who it is? Brands that podcast. Brands that podcast. their target audience, guess who it is? Brands up podcast. Brands that podcast. Do they do that?

Yeah, they crush. They do really good. Their clients are like fresh books and four signatic, like the mushroom tea company and cool company. They used to do, I met with Eric because they used to do podcast production and we've met a couple of times talking about podcast production, but they decided it was too much of a headache. They just do PR now.

Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with them and it's a headache. Ha, ha, ha. I mean, it's way better to honestly, like we've been doing this a while. Agency life is not the best model. It gets just not the best model.

It's based on talents, based on who's working for you at that moment based on the client relationship and what the client is like sometimes some people just never happy. And like that's just a very thinkless thing to have to deal with when people like they just put their problems on you. It's a very like person to person thing. And for me, I'm way more into like recruiting podcasts that are already producing their own shows and helping them monetize and grow because that's like more win-win. It's like, I make you money, you make me money, everyone's happy, rather than an agency where it's like, we do your work for you. And it's a little bit thankless because they might not see the ROI

directly. And then it's just, you know, it's a little bit more messy and slow-growing. So I like fast scaling things like our podcast network is very fast scaling. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. You hear that sound, young and profitors? You should know that sound by now, but in case you don't, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify.

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She was a former social client. She's a podcast client. And I remember when she came on Young and Profiting and she talked about her conviction marketing framework. It was like mind blowing to me. I remember immediately implementing what she taught me in the interview in my company and the marketing efforts that we were doing. And as a marketer, I really,

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Hey, yaap fam! As you may know, I've been a full-time entrepreneur for three years now. Yet media blew up so fast. It was really hard to keep everything under control, but things have settled a bit and I'm really focused on revamping and improving our company culture.

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is their audio mode to listen on the go. That way, I can multitask while I learn. Get unlimited access to every class and right now, as the app listener, you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com-profiting. That's masterclass.com-profiting for 15% off an annual membership. Masterclass.com slash profiting for 15% off an annual membership masterclass.com slash profiting. All right, let's see what else we've got here. Okay, so you touched on some things. I know you've covered

this in other areas. So maybe we can refer people out to the how to grow your podcast summit episode that you did. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was a good one. There's a lot of good content in there about how to grow your your podcast and different marketing strategies. And I know you have strategies around like following similar people and DMing them and stuff like that. So let's just refer people out to that as a resource. But maybe in just like a couple of minutes, you could give someone your go to something that they could start executing on right now. In terms of growing their show? Yeah, in terms of, and the way that I'm thinking about this, because marketing a podcast,

as far as I can tell, isn't terribly different from marketing any other product, right? It's like you have a target audience and you're trying to get your product in front of them. So if you have a podcast and you're clear about who your target audience is and you've identified who those people are, then to market to them, you need to get in front of them. And so I'm curious if you have any practical advice for people about how to get in front of their target audience. Sure, and to your point, we released the YAP replay on August 5th.

It was a little over 40 minutes. It's called Hala aka the podcast Princess Drops Wisdom at the Grow Your Podcast Summit. So if you guys want the full 40 minute long overview of how to grow your podcast, you guys can go there. So high level, the main message that I have to everyone is that you need to be targeting the podcast apps, right? This is marketing 101 for anything you're trying to brand.

You need to communicate and be visible where your target audience is hanging out. And for podcasts, that's in the apps. So the average person has like seven podcasts in their rotation, and you want to be one of those seven. And the other person on the street probably doesn't even listen to podcasts, or they watch on YouTube, or they don't even understand how to use podcasts. What I'm trying to say is a lot of people on the internet aren't even podcast listeners.

And so when you're putting out social media posts or email blasts or a website, it's like deaf ears because those people aren't actually your target because many of them do not listen to podcasts religiously, let alone podcasts in your niche or whatever it is. So be visible in the podcast apps. What does that mean? Number one, it means

guessing on other shows. Part of my job as a host and CEO now is guessing on other shows because you know what, a lot of those people who hear me on other shows, by the way, you're probably listening in and came to my show because you heard me on another show. I would say 50% of the time. So, guessing on other shows in particular shows that fit your niche. So, one of the first things that I would do if I was trying to grow my show is I would go on chartable and I would navigate to my category and I would see the top 200 podcasts and I would try to find out their contact information on Instagram or email. As something they want to do a swap, right? And a lot of the times you might have to pay for it. If you have a way smaller podcast, right, you might have to pay to get on their show,

but it would be worth it because you would be getting new listeners that you would otherwise have to acquire through other advertising means. So again, it's investing in yourself. If you have a show that has, you know, maybe you have some sort of leverage, maybe even email list, maybe you have a big social presence where even if you don't get a lot of downloads, you could be like, hey, I'd love to do a swap. Although we don't have the same amount of downloads, I have, you know, a huge Instagram presence and I'll do X amount of posts for you and, you know, promote it for a whole month or whatever it is. And you might get some bites and help grow your show that way, right? So being scrappy and creative in that way, the other way that's sort of similar is doing a commercial

on podcasts in your niche. So you can either go through an ad agency like Advertise Cast if you've got money and you can be like, Hey, I want all the marketing shows because I have a new marketing show coming out and I want to do a marketing commercial on these marketing shows. And they'll give you a rate based on downloads. It's usually based on CPM, cost per 1000 downloads.

And so it might cost 500 bucks to do a commercial on a big marketing podcast or maybe a 1000 bucks. And you can track that in chartable using smart promos. And you can see how many people went and actually downloaded your podcast as a result of that commercial. So monitoring it and tracking it is really important. I think that's probably level two in terms of advancement, but commercials, the other thing commercials that are interesting would be commercial impressions. Wops. Jason, are you familiar with this? Yeah. Yeah. So it's like basically if you're a smaller podcaster and you approach a podcaster like me, let's say, I'm not, I'm getting more than a hundred thousand a month, but let's

say for, for this conversation, I'm getting a hundred thousand downloads a month and you're getting ten thousand downloads a month, you would do ten commercials from I won and we would just track that and that's called a commercial impression based swap. The last way that you can be visible in the apps is actually advertising with the different players. There's about 70 players out there and all of them have different advertising opportunities. Maybe they send a push notification to their users. Maybe it's a banner within those apps, but you can make your podcast visible in those apps. And that works best usually if you have a broad audience. So like my podcast does really well because we have a pretty broad audience. But if you're just talking about

like pets or something, it might not be the best place for you to promote. You're better off targeting the pet niche podcast. We're in deadline now. I always say real estate and I was like, I don't want to use real estate. I was thinking about a podcast. It's just about parakeets. Is there one about pets? No, I don't know if there's one, but I was thinking of like super niche in the pet world. The thing is, if you're that niche, like people who love parakeets will probably find you. So long as you're SEO is. Yeah, I think it's so really well to those 10 people.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Last question is for you here. What would you do differently launching your podcast? No. That you've learned everything that you've learned over the last couple of years. Would you do anything differently?

Well, I made a few mistakes when I launched my podcast or like things that could have been improved. First of all, the name, like I already talked about, young and profiting wasn't searchable. I also did some really stupid things. One of the reasons why my Apple, I feel like took a long time to grow. So like, for context, I'm really huge on a lot of apps. Like I have 260,000 subscribers on cast box and like 3 million downloads. And I have all these different players. I have thousands of followers. Apple is pretty slow and that's because I was kind of deprioritized in the algorithm because I like fell for some

promo guy from Bangladesh who like did promo on my show and promised me that I would be like top one on iTunes or whatever. This is like five years ago. And it really hurt the algorithm on my show. So it's like, don't do stupid things. Like if it sounds good, too good to be true, it's probably is. And so I remember my show is being recommended with shows that were nothing like mine. And I got no SEO with an Apple for so long.

So to this day, I'm hurting. By the way, if you want to support me, drop me an Apple podcast review. Because till this day, I'm still not that huge on Apple. I think it's going to really take off in the next year or so, it already is, but that really hurt me. So it's like, don't do stupid things like working with promoters who say they're going to, you know, bring you to number one because it's usually like bots or like really unethical

ways. Like, you want real listeners, right? Like, there's no point to get like floated downloads. like bots or like really unethical ways, like you want real listeners, right? Like there's no point to get like bloated downloads. It's not sustainable and it doesn't actually help you in the long run. It hurts you in the long run. So don't do stupid promo things like I did.

The other thing is in the beginning, I wasn't consistent in terms of the frequency. I remember I had a very complex episode format. I would interview multiple people then chop that up and then narrate in between. I do that now, but now I have a team and it's interviews that I've done in the past that we kind of chop up and retroactively do this.

But back then I had no team who was by myself and I was doing all these interviews at once and I was sort of new to this because I had taken a four-year hiatus, and it would take me a month to put out an episode, and then I finally realized I needed to change my format because if I wanted to compete with other podcasters, I needed to be putting out at least two months

and then eventually four a month. And so that was a mistake, like, starting two complex and not really thinking through if that was sustainable. And would I be able to create a backlog and do this all on my own? And did I have the right resources to start such an ambitious project? I don't regret it though,

because people were hooked on my first and second episodes because they were so good and different. But in terms of sustainability, I did have to switch gears after, by episode four, I was already just doing the one-on-one interviews that I'm known for now. So I had to pivot that pretty quickly.

And things did take off significantly once I put out more episodes. What else would I have done differently? I think at the beginning, my colors were too bland. We went with like a very plain, like muted green and black. Things really took off when I changed my branding to more like neon bright colors that aligned with my target audience.

So I think like thinking through the branding a bit more and not and realizing that like standing out is better than, you know, looking cute or what I personally like, it's better to actually stand out. Yeah, I think I would just emphasize one of those points, just keeping it simple and sustainable, because you have to be consistent and podcasting it.

It's a long-term game, and so you got to do something that works for you, and it's kind of what I was alluding to earlier, and like, are you going to strategize every single week for new solo stuff, where you're solely responsible for all of the content? Or are you going to just find great guests who are gonna bring the great content to your show and then you have the opportunity to build those relationships? So, yeah, I would say if you're thinking about launching a podcast and you haven't done it yet, focus on doing as large a volume of as much work as you possibly can and get as many interviews done as you can. That's how you're going to improve. I always

hear the difference between, you know, your first episode that you recorded probably not going to be the first episode that you post if you even post that episode. Usually takes people depends on the talent of the person, but it can take as many 10 episodes for people to really be comfortable. So do a huge volume of work. You don't need to buy a bunch of stuff to start a podcast or a launch a podcast.

Guys, I interviewed Matthew McConaughey and my mom's basement. All right. I wasn't broke at the time, but still, it was my mom's basement. All right. I wasn't broke at the time, but still, it was my mom's basement. It was like a little webcam and like, you know, $200 mic. Yeah, and you don't need fancy equipment. We typically recommend, you know, like a $70 microphone, either the Samsung Q2U or the ATR 2100.

We like the Samsung for men and the ATR 2100. We like the Samsung for men and the ATR for women, but it's like simple and cheap and plugs right in and you just got to learn how to mic it properly. And yeah, recorded a bunch of episodes, load them up into Descript. It's a free program. You can download where you can listen back. And yeah, once you get some experience and you really decide you want to go all in on stuff, then you can start trying to figure out all the other pieces of like getting the artwork and the service provider and then editor and all those other things. But just get started. Do as much as you can.

And that's how you'll learn. Yeah. And I would say the other thing like to that point is really absorb yourself. If you're going to take on a podcast, there's a lot of competition right now. Absorb yourself in the industry. Sign up to pod news, which is the podcast email newsletter that every major podcaster is reading every day, just to stay abreast of the news. Really look into different marketing strategies. Read every single article and then eventually try to find a mentor, somebody who's like at my level or whatever who can really help guide you, but once you've already done enough work where you're

kind of eligible to be that person's mentor, you know, because I'm not going to help somebody who hasn't even done the work for themselves. But when I meet podcasters that I'm like, wow, this person has a lot of potential and seems to know a lot. I want to help them be better because I see potential in them. So I would say that's a key to you. Jason, one thing that I noticed is that we did really shout out many of the people who asked these questions. So like who asked some questions today?

Let's shout out. Oh yeah. My apologies, everybody. God, Jason asked it to you. Sleep it on that, sleep it on that. Yeah, we have Antonio, Zaptia, we have Brian Williams, Scott, Sealer, Zizzi. Zizzi?

Zizzi, I like that, I like Zizzi. Bill Plunk and Benjamin Custon made that. Custon made that. Thanks guys. All men, right? So many male listeners of Young and Profiting podcasts. I am so unique. It is not normal for a girl to have all these male listeners,

but I guess I'm bringing that masculine energy to all of you guys. Still embracing my femininity. So that's awesome. And then something that's like, I guess, new news is that I did shut down my text community. And so we don't have that anymore. And the reason why is because I have a really global audience

and a lot of my global audience kept complaining that they weren't a part of that community and I felt like it was alienating my audience. And then I also felt like a lot of the messages were just creepy and not productive. I got a lot of feet messages and like some weird pictures on it. So it's like, I feel like things just got a little weird.

And I just feel like there might be other ways for you guys to get in touch with me that's not necessarily the text community right now. I might resurrect it if you guys really hate that I shut it down. Let me know. I'd love your feedback. We can easily turn it back on if you guys want it. So let me know. Give me that feedback. But I think the best way to send in your questions would be to DM us. I've got a team that's constantly in my DMs and I'm also in my DMs. So DM me on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, at Yap with Hala, also LinkedIn, search for my name,

it's Hala Taha. Again, that's YapYap with Hala on Instagram. That's probably where most of you will catch me. Is that good for you, Jason? Are you good with them testing and their questions on Instagram? Yeah. Yeah. DMs work great. We can collect them from there. And I think we covered a lot of ground.

Yeah. Good luck to all you podcasters out there and, you know, wishing you the best from the podcast princess. Yeah. Send us your success stories. Well, I would love to just see progress updates from people who are working on podcasts and launching stuff. If you're launching a podcast, DM Hala, let us know what your podcast is so we can check it out. There were a couple of messages of people saying, I just launched a podcast or whatever,

but they didn't leave their names and I wanted to check them out and see how they were doing. And if you enjoyed this show again, you guys heard my story about Apple Podcast and how I made that boo boo when I was a baby podcaster. Help me drop a supply store review on Apple Podcasts or a comment on your favorite podcast platform. And don't forget, we're now on YouTube. So my YouTube channel is like on fire and popping right now.

I think I have almost 13,000 subscribers. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it kind of grew overnight. It seems like so really excited about that. Shout out to my YouTube team and hope you guys check us out there too. Bye guys! Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben

Podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness

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