Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Daniel Goleman: Level Up Your Emotional Intelligence | E165

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

How do you react to challenging situations and interactions? Are you able to express empathy and understanding even when you’re feeling frustrated and unheard? If so, you might have high emotional intelligence (EQ). A high EQ is one of the most important skill sets you can have if you want to thrive in and outside of the office. People with high EQ are more likely to be effective communicators, problem-solvers, and more. If you think you have a low EQ and tend to react based on your emotions, don’t worry! Best-selling author and psychologist Dan Goleman knows that these skills can be learned! We can all harness our emotions and use them for our benefit. In this episode, Hala talks to Dan about IQ VS EQ, the link between mindfulness and EQ, the four aspects of an emotionally intelligent person, parasympathetic and sympathetic modes, the relationship between anxiety and performance, and gives actionable tips about how we can learn emotional intelligence.    Topics Include: - Dan’s Journey - The basis of his book Emotional Intelligence - IQ VS EQ - Learning EQ and neuroplasticity  - Link between meditation and stress reactivity  - Four parts of an emotionally intelligent person - Value of emotions  - Emotional Stoplight  - Cyber disinhibition - Types of brains and brain biology - Amygdala hijacks  - Steps to developing emotional intelligence  - Inner dialogue and how to speak to ourselves  - Parasympathetic vs sympathetic mode - Relationship between anxiety and performance - Self-motivation and purpose  - “The Good Cry” and why this phenomenon may not hold weight - Recipe for getting over an argument  - How to shift your mood - Three different types of empathy and how you use them - How emotional intelligence impacts society  - How EQ translates into organizational performance - Dan’s actionable advice to be more profitable tomorrow - Dan's secret to profiting in life   - And other topics…  Daniel Goleman is the author of the best-selling book Emotional Intelligence, as well as many other works in emotional and social intelligence, leadership, and education. He is also a psychologist, former science journalist for the New York Times, and co-director of the Consortium for Research on Emotional Intelligence in Organizations. Daniel co-founded the Collaborative for Academic, Social, and Emotional Learning at Yale University’s Child Studies Center. He lectures frequently to professional audiences, and is the host of the First Person Plural podcast. He holds a bachelor’s degree from Amherst College, and a PhD in clinical psychology and personality development from Harvard, where he also taught.  Sponsored By: Peloton - Visit onepeloton.com to learn more.  Indeed - Go to Indeed.com/profiting to claim your $75 credit before April 30th WRKOUT - Visit wrkout.com/yap to book a FREE Session with a world-class trainer and get 30% off your first TWO MONTHS with code YAP Jordan Harbinger - Check out jordanharbinger.com/start for some episode recommendations Constant Contact - To start your free digital marketing trial today, visit constantcontact.com 99designs by Vista - Head to 99designs.com/YAP to learn more and get $30 off your first design contest! Resources Mentioned: Dan’s Books: https://www.danielgoleman.info/purchase/  Dan’s EI Assessments: https://www.danielgoleman.info/ei-assessments/  Dan’s Podcast, First Person Plural: https://www.keystepmedia.com/first-person-plural/  Dan’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielgoleman/  Dan’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/danielgoleman Dan’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daniel_goleman_/ Connect with Young and Profiting: YAP’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting/     Hala’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/     Hala’s Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/yapwithhala/     Clubhouse: https://www.clubhouse.com/@halataha   Website: https://www.youngandprofiting.com/  Text Me via @SlickText: https://youngandprofiting.co/TextHala Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halla Taha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the

right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of XFBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhanced and productivity, had again influenced the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young and Profiting Podcast. This week on YAP, we're chatting with bestselling author and psychologist Daniel Goldman, most well-known as the number one expert in the world on all things emotional intelligence.

Daniel is the author of the New York Times bestselling book Emotional Intelligence, and he is credited for first introducing the term emotional intelligence to millions of readers across the globe, effectively bringing EQ to the mainstream. Daniel is also the co-director of the consortium for research on emotional intelligence and organizations, and he is the co-founder of Cassel, collaborative for academic social and emotional learning. In addition, he's also the host of the podcast, First Person Plural. Emotional intelligence or EQ is one of the most important soft skills you can have today. Having a high EQ means that you can build stronger relationships, regulate stress and

anxiety, and even solve problems more successfully. Emotional intelligence is crucial in and outside of the office. And guess what? EQ is totally learnable and Dan is here to tell us how. In today's episode, Dan and I will yap about why emotional intelligence matters. We'll learn about amygdala hijacks and how they can prohibit us to act rationally and think clearly in high intensity situations. And we'll also discuss steps on how to develop our emotional intelligence and so much more.

Having a high EQ is a quality that leaders, employees, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between needs to thrive in our current world. So if you're looking for a marketable skill that will improve all aspects of your life, you've come to the right place. Hey, Dan, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast. Well, thank you. It's really my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

I am super honored to have you on the show today to talk all things emotional intelligence. You are literally the number one expert in the world when it comes to that topic. And so we're going to go super deep on EQ today. But before we do that, I did want to get some insight on your background. It's pretty fascinating that you actually have a lot of interest in the Eastern world. And it impacted you as a child. And then later on in college and graduate school, you ended up traveling to India. And so there's no doubt that these different perspectives and getting exposed to meditation and mindfulness

influenced your perspective on psychology and your work later on. So, talk to us about how you first got introduced to Eastern studies and what it was like growing up for you. Well, I grew up, you know, my parents were college professors and my father's best friend was the founder and head of the Oriental Studies Department at Berkeley. He was a guy, fascinating guy, who had spent a lot of time in Asia. And I think, automatically, I got some interest there. He and my father had met in a Sanskrit class as graduate students.

So they had Eastern interests in common. And I think the big change for me was when I met Ramdas. I don't know if you know the name Ramdas, but he was a really important cultural figure from my generation. He had been a professor at Harvard, and with Tim Larry, he'd been a big prostitiser for psychedelics, and then went to India

and became Ramdas, not Richard Albert. I met him right after he returned and he had become a serious student of Eastern disciplines. And he got me to go to India. I ended up being there for two years and studying Eastern systems of thought and working with the mind as psychologists. And this was a really radical thing to do back in the day. Today maybe no one's going to blink, but when I was doing it, it was what? Well, you're like, you that doesn't make sense to anyone on my faculty, but my interest was meditation. And the generation of people who founded

like Spirit Rock and incite meditation society and brought mindfulness to America, like John Cabodzin, Joseph Goldstein, these are personal friends of mine from those days. And we were doing something by being interested in mindfulness and meditation then that seemed really Beyond the fringe. Yeah, cuz I was like the 1970s, right? And even just traveling to India I think was a big deal, especially for someone not young, right? So what was it like when you in the 1970s when you started So what was it like when you in the 1970s when you started meditating and all that? When I got to India, I found a lot of people like me, young Westerners, who mostly gone overland. It was like a thing. You did that in those days. And they were there because they had spiritual interest too.

A lot of them have been like lifelong friends. There's one guy you might have heard of, Krishna Doss, he's a famous singer now because he sings Indian, what are called, Budge and their chance at peak colonies. Very popular in the Yoga scene. He was a guy went to India with. So people who were in that first wave came back and started doing things like Yoga studios, singing Indian chants, mindfulness, meditation,

that then were like totally beyond the fringe and now our mainstream. Businesses are doing mindfulness. Schools are doing mindfulness. It's not a revolutionary thing anymore, but at that point, it was my dissertation. I went back to Harvard as a graduate student. My fellowship tenure was from Harvard, actually, and I did my dissertation on meditation and stress, very timely topic today.

Back then people couldn't understand why I would put those two things together, maybe no sense. But now it's been totally corroborated like, oh yeah, that was good idea. Well, yeah, now it's like totally normal. But back then in the psychology world, especially it wasn't well received like to talk about meditation and how it can change your brain and they just thought that was kind of hogwash, right? I was saved because it was one guy in the medical school, her Benson, who had done a study of blood pressure and meditation.

And he agreed to be on my dissertation committee. So because someone from the medical school said it was OK, then I got to do it. But it was a little nip and tuck there for a while. So when I graduated, I was really interested in theories of consciousness in the mind and Eastern theories, meditation, but there was nowhere in the world of psychology, faculty, that I belonged. So I went into journalism and I ended up being a science journalist. Before I wrote emotional intelligence, by the way, for the record, I didn't come up with

the phrase emotional intelligence. That's a friend of mine, Peter Salave, who's now the president of Yale. He and a graduate student wrote a little article in a very obscure journal called emotional intelligence. And at the time, I was in the science desk at the New York Times and my job was to read even obscure journals and see what was new and interesting. I thought, wow, what a great phrase. That was how I got to write the book of emotional intelligence. Yeah, and so I know that you weren't the one who coined the phrase, but you really made it popular. I mean, you wrote the book in 1995.

It was a New York Times bestseller. It was translated in over 40 languages. And I feel like the masses came to know about emotional intelligence from you. So you really set off a global movement there. How did that feel when you released that book? Did it take off right away or did it kind of build up to take off? In anticipation, I thought, I better sell another book before that book flops. I had no idea

it would be, you know, it was on the cover of Time Magazine. It got huge press because the people were ready for the idea that there's a different kind of intelligence than IQ that matters enormously for how well you do in life. That's a much of intelligence, how you handle yourself, how you handle your relationships. It makes all the difference. So if you, you know, if you look at engineers, for example, this is new data, and you ask engineers to read each other and how effective they are as engineers, it turns out there's zero correlation to their IQ and very high correlation to their emotional intelligence.

The person you work for, the boss you love is someone with emotional intelligence. The employee that you want is someone with emotional intelligence. They manage themselves well, they keep their eye on their goals, their positive, no matter what happens. They recover from stress, they empathize, they tune into other people, they get along with other people, they're great on teams. This is the kind of person you want in your organization. And by the way, it's the kind of person you want in your spouse. Yeah, 100 percent, I mean emotional intelligence is such an important quality, especially in 2022 and beyond.

I feel like as people are looking for soft skills and technical skills get automated, emotional intelligence is more important than ever. But let's rewind back to 1995 when you first put out this book. What was the history of emotional intelligence before that point? And also, why was it so innovative at that time? Sure. So the book of emotional intelligence is highly speculative. There was not really any research to speak of on emotional intelligence per se. There was converging data. Actually, I drew a lot on the decade of research before 95 on the brain and emotions, which was a new field then. And that was really the basis of my book. And I brought, I woven in every other finding I could

come up with, you know, or find. It took a lot of work to do. However, once I put it together, it struck a chord. And since then, there's a ton of research on emotional intelligence. In fact, I'm just agreed to do a book, pulling together 25 years of research on the topic, because there's a critical mass now that shows, yes, this is the kind of, this is the set of abilities that leaders need, entrepreneurs need. This is the set of abilities that you need to do well, no matter what it is you do. And this is the set of abilities that organizations need to encourage. As you say, AI is encroaching on human abilities, but I don't think it'll ever take over the emotional intelligence space. Yeah, it is very, very key as things go on.

So let's talk about the reason why you put out this 25th Anniversary Edition. You released a 25th Anniversary Edition in 2020. Why did you decide to do that? I know you wrote a new introduction. What had changed over 25 years that you needed to reintroduce the topic again? Well, a couple of things had happened in 25 years. That's a long time. First of all, business had embraced the topic. There's a mini-industry of consultants and testers and so on, and emotional intelligence. It's really everywhere. You mentioned that it's global.

I've been doing a lot recently, for example, in Brazil because the topic is taken off like crazy there, Latin America, Asia, Europe. It's all over. And that's new since nobody heard of it in 1995. Another place that I'm happy to say that it's really found footing is schools worldwide. There are many, many schools that now teach what's called social emotional learning, which is, you know, the four parts of emotional intelligence, self

awareness, managing yourself, tuning in to other people, putting that together in social scale and relationships. Kids are learning this in school, and I think that's, I think that's very important because there's a neurological window of opportunity. The emotional and social circuitry of the brain does not become fully mature anatomically until mid-20s, which means you can help kids shape

how, you know, that circuitry, get it right in the first place, instead of people past 25, if you want to get better, you can, but it takes a double effort because you have to overcome the bad habits you learn, and then replace them with good ones. That basically is possible, but takes a lot more effort than it would have if you had started this in kindergarten. Yeah.

So speaking of learning, it's pretty interesting to me that EQ, emotional intelligence, you can actually learn it. It's not something that you're just born with and you're stuck with like IQ is. So talk to us about the difference between EQ and IQ in terms of how you can actually improve your EQ? Well, IQ pretty much is stable throughout life. It's an index, some say, of how quickly you can learn something.

And people are born, you know, they have genetic differences. And some people inherit pretty quick speed. And some people have a less quick speed. And it may vary from math and language and so on. But basically, whatever your IQ is as a kid is pretty much what you'll have through life. However, emotional intelligence is learned and learnable throughout life. And that's, I find that very encouraging because, you know, let's say you're starting a

company or you're a manager somewhere and you realize that you know you need to get better at listening. Poor listening is like the common cool of Emily. People just like you're thinking too much about what you're going to say or you interrupt the person and take over the conversation. That's bad listening. So in order to overcome that, you need to be a motivated. Ask yourself, do you really care? Do you want to do this?

If the answer's no, give up. If the answer's yes, you keep going. And you come up with a specific plan. This is important because this is really have a change at a granular level. So you're gonna be mindful and every time you notice that you're about to take over a conversation or you're not really listening,

you remind yourself, oh no, I'm gonna do it better this time. So you're both inhibiting the habit that didn't work and you're encouraging a new way of doing it. And you wanna do that new way of doing it. And you want to do that as often as naturally occurs. It might be with your partner, it might be with your kids, it might be at work, it doesn't matter, the brain doesn't distinguish, but the more you practice and the more often you practice, the stronger the new habit becomes. And neuroplasticity is the name for this in neuroscience. The brain, sometimes it's called useter lose it.

The more you practice behavioral sequence, the stronger the neuronal connections for that become. That's what we're doing at a brain level when you practice a new way of being promotional intelligence and you can do it at any point in life? Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors. Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea but you don't know how to move forward with it? Going into debt for a four-year degree isn't the only path to success.

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And the best part, they offer a money back guarantee. If your dog's tail isn't wagging within 30 days, they'll refund your first order. No fillers, no nonsense, just nom nom. Go right now for 50% off your no risk two week trial at trinom.com slash app. That's trinom and om.com slash app for 50% off trinom.com slash app. And I have to imagine like what you're saying right now reminds me of what a lot of people say related to meditation. That meditation actually helps you create. It's like that neuroplasticity can happen with meditation. Can you explain the connection between meditation and emotional intelligence? I don't know if there's a direct connection. I would connect it in two places. One is meditation and mindfulness are applied self-awareness. Self-awareness is the first domain of emotional intelligence. You're getting to know yourself intimately. The second has to do with empathy and presence to the person you're

with, because it helps you pay full attention to the person in front of you, and that's the basis of rapport. If you don't have that attention, if you're looking at your phone, not going to have rapport with a person. So those are two ways, I think it helps, but there are others too. For example, my PhD work was on meditation and stress reactivity, and I found that people who meditated, wasn't that they didn't react to stress, but they recovered more quickly. And now it's been very well established over 25 years of studies, that people who meditate regularly don't keep that thing that upsets you in their mind, our later, a day later, or middle of the night later, they can drop it. And that's

one thing you practice in meditation. And I did a book called Altered Traits with a friend of mine from graduate school, Richard Davidson, who's now a neuroscientist at the University of Wisconsin, and we looked at all the best studies on meditation. And it's very clear that there's a dose response effect, meaning the more you do it, the better the benefits are. And we see that as being due to that practice effect. That is, the more hours you put in, the more strong of the circuits for meditating become. And basically, you're reshaping your brain.

And when he studied yogis, these are like Olympic level practitioners. He found that the brains actually operate differently than most people's brains in very good ways. Yeah, it's super interesting. Meditation is so useful in so good ways. Yeah, it's super interesting. Meditation is so useful in so many ways. So I do want to make sure that my listeners get a really good foundation of emotional intelligence. So how would you describe an emotionally intelligent person? Well, let's go through the four parts.

The first part is self-aware. An emotionally intelligent person has self-awareness, which means they know what they're feeling, why they're feeling it, how it's shaping how they perceive the world, what they do, or what their impulses to do. They also have a view of themselves that fits how other people see them. We find that people who have a big gap between how others see them and how they see themselves don't develop emotional intelligence well, but people who have very little or no gap turn out to be pretty emotionally intelligent.

Then the next part of it is how you handle yourself, self-mastery, if you will. And this has to do with dealing with stress, and today everybody is stressed out of their minds. Do you carry it with you? Does it multiply or can you drop it and leave it behind and go on to the next thing? That's the emotionally intelligent way of handling it. Are you able to stay positive no matter what happens? Do you see, you have a growth mindset, you see yourself from other people as able to get better, not just to dismiss yourself or others as you are now. And are you able to keep your eyes on your goals, whatever they may be, despite the distractions

of the day? Very important. You wouldn't be doing what you're doing now if you didn't have that, by the way. Correct? Yeah, I can self-motivate any time of the day, any minute, any hour. Exactly. You have a successful podcast, you need that drive to achieve your goals. Then the third part of emotional intelligence is empathy, tuning into other people. There are three kinds, cognitive, knowing what they're thinking, how they see the world, emotional, knowing what they feel because you feel it too. And then empathic concern, which means you care about them. It's not just that you know what

they think and feel, but you want what's good for them. And as I said earlier, this is what you want in your partner, and the people you work with, in your boss, and your employees, you want people to care about other people. You know, the brand me only me really doesn't cut it. It turns out to be selfish. Then putting that all together, how you manage yourself, how you see your awareness of yourself and other people into your relationship skills. Very important part too. Are you able to persuade and influence people to come around your point of view if you need to, can you inspire them to give their best effort by articulating from your heart to their heart a shared sense of meaning and purpose.

That's very powerful if you can do that. Are you a good team player? You know, do you get along well with other people? Can you say the the thing that needs to be said, even if it isn't pleasant just right now, by the way, there's a difference between being nice and being kind. And by the way, there's a difference between being nice and being kind. I think being nice just means do whatever will help you get along. And it's not actually that helpful. Being kind might mean bringing up that one thing that needs to be said, even though it's uncomfortable in the moment. And good teams, high performing teams, have that social contract with each other.

They can do that with each other, and people who are mostly intelligent will do that too, naturally. And then there are things like being able to help resolve conflicts. That's sometimes a tough one. So, you know, there are all these different aspects. I call them competencies that are based

in emotional intelligence, that actually research shows made people outstanding performers in the workplace. So if you're going to be an entrepreneur and start up your own organization, or if you're going to join an organization, be a manager, or you want to be on a ladder to leadership, these are the skills that you'll need. Oh, yeah, 100%. So I feel like some people get emotional intelligence a little bit wrong. They think of it as I need to suppress my emotions. Like emotions are bad. And I think some people think that if they just eliminated emotions, they'd be this like perfect, logical

human being and rational and make the best decisions. But emotions actually have a lot of value. So can you talk just about the value that emotions have? Let me say emotional intelligence is not being a robot. Emotions are important signals to us from ourselves. Memo, I'm getting sad. Memo, I'm a little anxious now. These are memos to ourselves. Memo, I'm getting sad. Memo, I'm a little anxious now. These are memos to ourselves. I'm getting angry. It's really important to know what your emotional reality is. On the other hand,

there's a critical choice point after you know and acknowledge the emotion, which is what you do and say. There you want to be skillful. So, you know, in these social emotional learning classes, SEL, one of the things I love is a poster that's on the wall of the classroom. It says, if you're getting upset, remember the stop light, red light, yellow light, green light, red light, stop, think before you act. Very important. That means take that choice point and think of what you, yellow light, think of a range of things you might do and what the consequence might be. Green light picked the best one and tried out. It was a good advice for five yearyear-old or 50-year-old, frankly. You know, life is full of those moments when we have this impulse to react, but you know, sometimes you're sitting at the keyboard and you experience what's called cyber-dissinhibition, meaning if you were face-to-face, you'd never say what you're about to send that person.

Happens too often, but because you aren't, the brand doesn't get a feedback signal from facial expression, tone of voice from the other person, you're going blind. So very often, we send things a text or an email that we regret. The hallmark of an emotional hijack, where your worst emotions make you do something, is that you feel bad about what you did.

You feel wealthy or regret or remorse. I wish I hadn't said it. I wish I hadn't done it. I wish I hadn't yet sent. So having that pause point, this is where mindfulness is very helpful, by the way, because that helps us recognize the pause point and give us an internal range of choice that we wouldn't have otherwise. Yeah, well, let's stick on this for a second.

What happens to our brain, like anatomically, when we're in distress, when we're super anxious, like let's say, but let's use that example. I just told somebody off in an email, I didn't think I just got angry, hit the send button, and now, you know, what happens to our brain in those moments? Okay, so let me get a little technical here. The emotional centers have a structure called the amygdala. The amygdala does many things, but one of it is that it's the brains right are for threat. In prehistory, the amygdala helped us survive. That rustle in the

bushes could be something that eats us, so we better run. Immigulate today has the same wiring. It has a privileged position in the architecture of our brain, so that if it perceives a threat, it can take over the thinking brain, the prefrontal cortex, the executive center, the boss of the brain, just behind the forehead. The executive center is where we make good decisions, where we comprehend, where we think rashly, where we plan. But the amygdala is just rife with anxiety and anger. It has the feelings that make us want to do something right away.

And if it thinks there's a threat, and by the way, today it's reacting to symbolic threats. This guy's not treating me fair. How could they, you know, leave me out of that or whatever it is? Those are the things that trigger us today. But we have the same biological reaction. So the amygdala freezes the prefrontal cortex and it often makes mistakes about whether or not there's a real danger.

And it has a hair trigger decision role. It would rather be safe than sorry. So it makes us do things like send that email because I was so mad, rather than realize that I'm really mad, pause and think, well, now what should I do? So we have this thinking and this feeling brain, right? So the feeling brain, I think people also call it the reptilian brain, right? Well, the reptilian brain is actually below them,

the male brain, which is where the emotional centers are in that model of the brain, but it doesn't matter. It's ancient brain. You know, the thinking brain, the neocortex, one-thirty-holes, is an add-on, it's accessory to the emotional brain, to help us survive. There's a different way of thinking about thinking. device. It was a different way of thinking about thinking. Because in evolution, the emotional brain is what helped us make it from day to day. Yeah, because you actually can learn from your different memories, right? Like, so if you touched a hot stove when you were a kid, you learned from that memory and you never did it again. And you remember the emotion tied to that memory, right? So here's another thing about a MiG-2L,

a hijax which I was describing to you. One of the things that shifts is your hierarchy of memory. So you're gonna remember the time you touched the hot plate as a two-year-old, more than all the things you can do right now that would have a better outcome. That's why you need to pause, because your impulse is going to be whatever the jerk response comes from that emotion. Yeah, so basically, even if the circumstances are changed, your gut reaction is going to

be, you know, stove is bad, even though, you know, stovies can cook your food. Exactly. See for interesting stuff. I mean, let's talk about how we can start to get a better handle of our emotions. What is the first step in developing our emotional intelligence? Well, I think the first step is what I was penching earlier, which is to assess your own motivation. Is this really a goal you care about? Because the reason it's important is it takes time

and it takes effort. I have a colleague, Richard Boyatz, his teacher is at Case Western Reserve. He has MBA students, and he takes them through a learning process for emotional intelligence, but it takes three to six months. However, if they complete it after three to six months, their automatic response is the new way of doing things, the better way of doing things. He's gone back and assessed them seven years later wherever are, and had people who work with them evaluate them to get an honest reading of how they're doing, and he finds that what they learn

back then is still the case. They still implement it that way. So emotional intelligence learning, if you do it right, really sticks. So the first step is to ask yourself, it's this matter to me. And if the answer is yes, then go ahead. Second step, I would recommend getting other people's reading of what your strengths are and where you're limited in this domain. The reason is that you can fool yourself by just evaluating yourself.

If you have a blind spot, you will not see it by definition. Other people can see it. And maybe you have a good friend or friends who will help you think this through. If you work in a company, they may have what's called a 360 assessment, where people who you choose will evaluate you anonymously and you'll get the data aggregated, gives you a profile of strengths and weaknesses. And by the way, I have an instrument for doing this. It's called the emotional and social competence inventory, the 360 for the competencies of emotional intelligence. But there are many, many 360s, many organizations have their own. But I would recommend that as a second step. And then look at the feedback. This is delicate.

Many people take it as a judgment or criticism. Actually, you should think of it as news to use. Almost never in life, you get a candidate assessment like this of what your strengths are and your limitations. So this is golden information, and you can use it to think, where would the biggest bang for the buck be for me? Maybe it's listening, as I said before,

in which case you would develop a specific learning plan. You do it one thing at a time. You don't try to take on the whole of your emotional intelligence, it's overwhelming. Do one at a time. You don't try to take on the whole of your emotional intelligence. It's overwhelming. Do one at a time. And so let's say you want to be a better listener and you have a plan, whenever the opportunity arises, I'm going to listen to a person out and then say what I think they said, then say what I say. That's the new habit. Once you were good listener. And then the last thing is you practice it every naturally occurring opportunity. Those then the last thing is you practice it every naturally

occurring opportunity. Those are the steps to improvement, I would say. Yeah, reps are definitely key in all of this. So a lot of this is about understanding your emotions, self evaluating. So what about inner dialogue? Is there a right way and a wrong way to kind of speak to ourselves when we're trying to understand our emotions and kind of self-regulate? I think the wrong way is to say, I'm stressed out, I'm anxious and I'm angry and frustrated and I'm a bad person because of it. In other words, the worst thing is inner judgment, self-judgment. The much better way to handle negative emotions

is to acknowledge them. I'm feeling anxious right now. What can I do? I'm feeling angry right now. What should I do? That's a much better way to react. So I would say self-playing, guilt, self-judgment is the wrong road to take. Acknowledging feelings.

Saying, okay, hello anxiety. Here you are again, my little friend. Here's what I'm going to do. And there are a lot of ways to handle anxiety. Many, many way. Meditation is one, you know, because one, find out what relaxes you. Another thing that your listeners might want to check out, I have an assessment of what are called stressors or hassles to refreshers.

Think about your day. What part of your day allows you downtime? Do you take your dog for a walk every day? Do you spend time with someone you love? Do you go for a walk in nature? These are all things that put you in what's called a parasympathetic mode, which is the body of rest and recovers, as opposed to the sympathetic nervous system arousal, which is anxiety, anger, frustration. And our days, the way things have gone have too much of that.

We need to have a balance. The body was designed for the balance. This is called the personal sustainability index. Maybe you can put it in your show notes for people that want to check it out. Yeah, I definitely will. And since you're talking about anxiety, I love a good productivity hack on young and profiting.

And I found out that anxiety and performance are actually related. Can you talk just about the upside down you and how anxiety and performance are interrelated? Well, I would say that you need to make a distinction right away between good and bad stress. Useful anxiety like anticipatory anxiety. I've got a test or I'm giving a presentation or I'm going on shark tank or something. That's stressful. But the anxiety about it mobilizes you to prepare. That is so useful.

That's absolutely essential to succeeding. However, if the stress becomes overwhelming, it's unremitting. You never have a chance to recover. Those refreshers I was talking about. You get emotionally exhausted, you burn out. That is bad stress. So the better, the good use of anxiety and stress is when you see it as helping you get ready for

a challenge. That's golden. The bad stress is when it's just wiping you out and it doesn't help you recover at all. That lowers your immunity. That makes you an anxious person, it makes you irritable, makes you do snap decisions that you regret later. So make the distinction right off the bat. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.

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Like bringing school, right? You got the test. Yeah. So a couple of more questions in relation to kind of self-regulation. How do we self-motivate? What are your best tips for that? I would zoom out from self-motivation and look at your sense of purpose and meaning. Does this really matter to you? That's the deeper motivation. If this fits your sense of purpose and meaning, and by the way, I just seen some really interesting data that suggests it doesn't matter what your job is or your role is. If you have a strong sense of your purpose, you'll find a way to make that job a role fit your purpose. Having a sense of what we call purposefulness is a great motivator, no matter what you're doing. The weaker motivators turn out to be things like salary, promotion, they'll give you a

little bit of a boost for a while, but then they don't really matter that much to you. So it's what's called an inner motivation, intrinsic motivation, is the best way to get yourself going. See how what you're thinking of doing helps you get to where you wanna go in the long run. That's the inner motivation. Yeah, that's super helpful. So another mood lifter, you talk in your book

that you actually say is kind of like an oxymoron is a good cry. So a lot of people think that you you know, you have a good cry, you actually feel better. Talk to us about why that might not be true. Well, there's another theory and data both ways, which suggests that the more you practice any behavioral sequence, like crying is a behavior, the stronger the pathways, the support it becomes.

So it may be that, you know, letting your anger out, giving yourself a cry, a good cry, may make you just more susceptible to anger and crying. So that's the way in which it may not work. On the other hand, there's a catharsis theory, and I'm not going to take a stand here. The catharsis theory says, let it out, have a cry, and then you'll feel better afterward. And I'm not sure that we really know which is right. So I think which is right for you, it's best.

Yeah, you're just going to have to see what works for you. I don't know. I feel like sometimes I feel better after a cry. Let's just get it all out. I think men and women are different about it, too. I'm sure. Something else that I want to talk about is how to actually recover from an argument.

So I think this is really hard for people. They have a bad argument and they want to just get over it. What's the best way to do that? I would say that the recipe for getting over an argument is the same as getting over any negative emotion, which is dropping it, acknowledging it, and letting it go. And you may need to sit with it for a little while,

but you don't want to stew in it. You want to go on. And going, this is very interesting. This is one way meditation helps you because in meditation, no matter what kind you're doing, the universal instruction is, as your mind wanders, bring it back, which means drop wherever your mind went. That's practice in dropping it. And remember, the neural principle, the more you practice something,

the stronger your ability for that becomes. So, getting over an argument, which may really shake you up, by the way, because you care about the relationship and the person, getting over the argument is a tough one. But I think it demands more of your ability to shift mood, which can be practiced and can be strengthened. And it's 15 moved by the way you can do in two ways. One is to replace it with something that makes you feel good. Like, okay, I had an argument with so and so, but I'm going to spend some time with my pet cat who always makes me feel better.

That's one way. The trouble with that is after drawing the cat, the argument may come back over and you can solve anything. And maybe the better way is to handle the emotion by acknowledging it and then letting it go, learning to let go. And I have to imagine, especially with relationships, empathy has a lot to do with being good at this relationship management. Let me say there's a third strategy,

which you just alluded to, which has to do with cognitive empathy, understanding the other person's perspective, saying, oh, well, maybe this argument doesn't mean he doesn't like me anymore. Maybe it's because of this thing or that thing that's happening in his life or her life. And this is kind of what's called cognitive reframing. And that can sometimes be very helpful, too. So talk just about the different, there's three different types of empathy as far as I understand. Can you tell us about the three different types and how you use them?

Well, I mentioned it earlier. Cognitive empathy means I understand your perspective. I know how you think about it. And it might be really useful in getting over that argument you just had. As you can think, well, maybe she got mad at me because of this other thing that doesn't have to do with me really, has to do with her. Emotional empathy means that I feel what you feel, and it's because the brain is wired to lock in and form an emotional bridge with the brain of the person you're with. It happens instantly and unconsciously, spontaneously.

You don't do it. It just happens. That makes you able to feel what that other person feels. And you may have a lot of emotional reverberation after that argument, because that person is upset, you're upset. So you want to be able to manage that emotional after effect better. And then there's concern, caring about the other person. So you had an argument with that person. You want to help yourself, but you want to help the other person too. If you really love that other person or you care about that other person, the answer

is probably yes. And this may help you come up with a strategy for mending the relationship in a better way. It's so interesting because you think about people who might not care and those are like the really bad people in the world, right? Who know all the ways they can manipulate people with emotional intelligence, but then they don't have that one piece of empathy in terms of they don't care about other people. You're talking about socioparies, really, that they have a defective emotional intelligence. They don't have true empathy.

They have a manipulative empathy. And by the way, there's a premium on that in politics. I'll say no more about that. All right, as we close off this interview, I'd love to understand from you why emotional intelligence is so important to society as a whole. Because I know there's some really interesting things in terms of crime rates related to EQ and just different ways that it can impact society in ways that people didn't necessarily think about before.

Well, my view is that a more emotionally intelligent society would be a better world to live in. Which is why I'm really a big advocate of teaching this in school to kids. So they get it right in the first place, because think about it. People who can manage themselves better, who can tune in and care about other people, who can get along with other people,

and help them as well as themselves, those are the kind of people you wanna go through life with. Those are the kind of people you want in your family as a partner. Those kind of people you want as a co-parent, the kind of person you want in your business, as your business partners, as your employees, as your bosses. So I think that it's emotional intelligence really is a recipe for better society. And then in terms of the data, how does EQ translate into organizational performance in areas like sales and leadership and things like that?

Well, yeah. Well, I'm just pulling together 25 years of studies and show that being emotionally intelligence makes people better in sales, for obvious reasons, better leaders, better team members, and organizations that have a culture of emotional intelligence do better by hard measures like profit and growth. Love that. All right, so I end all of my interviews

with the same couple of questions, and then we do some fun things at the end of the year with them. So what is one actionable thing our listeners can do today to become more profitable tomorrow? Manage yourself better. Keep your eye on your goal. Don't be so distracted. Ooh, I love that. And what is your secret to profiting in life? Care about other people. Be open, be empathic, but be caring.

Great advice. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do, Dan? Well, I do have a podcast. It's called First Person Plural. And I welcome you there. I have a newsletter. It's free on LinkedIn.

And I update what I'm thinking about on the newsletter. I have LinkedIn blogs and I just started a new organization called Goldman Consulting Group and you can find me there too. Awesome. So we'll stick all those links in the show notes. Thank you so much Dan for your time and your wisdom. Appreciate it. Thank you. A wonderful talk and do. what a pleasure. Wasn't that an amazing show? Daniel is awesome and I'm super thankful he took the time to chat with us on Young and

Profiting Podcasts about how we can all improve our EQ. And it is super incredible that we get to learn from the guy who is considered the father of emotional intelligence. In fact, I've had several episodes on EQ in every single conversation. We cite Daniel's work because he is literally the man when it comes to emotional intelligence. And we covered so much in this episode, from the history of emotional intelligence to its relationship with mindfulness and meditation, and we even dove deep into brain biology and how to emotionally recover from an argument.

This episode is certainly worthy of a repeat lesson. And I do wanna take a minute to recap some of the key takeaways. First off, Dan described the emotionally intelligent person as having four traits, self-awareness, self-management, empathy, and social skills. Number one, people with emotional intelligence are good at understanding their own emotions.

That's self-awareness. Number two, they're good at managing their emotions. That's self-awareness. Number two, they're good at managing their emotions. That's self-management. They're also empathetic to the emotional drivers of other people, social awareness or empathy. And lastly, they're good at handling other people's emotions, also known as social skills. If you feel like you're lacking in any of these areas, don't worry. Daniel shared that we can literally reshape our brains and improve our emotional intelligence. That's neuroplasticity. How fascinating is that? So let's review Dan steps for developing EQ. Number one, assess your motivation. Consider your goals and how

the situation will impact whether you achieve them or not. Number two, ask for people's honest opinions of your strengths and weaknesses. The fact is how you see yourself differs greatly from how others see you, and you can use this feedback to be the best version of yourself. And lastly, the third step is to practice. Repetition is key. The more you practice certain sequences,

the stronger the connections will become. So for example, if you practice letting your negative thoughts and emotions go, it will become easier and easier for you to do so. So give these steps a try and remember that repetition is key. And lastly, a new term that I learned in this episode and loved was cyber-diss inhibition. We sometimes say things online that we would never say to someone's face. And this is a result of not having that emotional face-to-face connection.

We hide behind our computer screens, keyboard, warriors, so to speak, and sometimes this means our empathy and restraint gets tossed out of the window. So as communication keeps creeping more and more into virtual spaces, just remember to pause before reacting out of emotion. You can even think of the image of Dan Stoplight, Red for Stop, Yellow for Think, and Green for Give it a try. Maybe even step away from your phone or computer and spend some quality time in the parasympathetic mode. AKA, get relaxed and get into a relaxation mode before you respond.

Just think of what a world it could be if we all worked a little harder to improve our emotional intelligence. We all need a little more understanding and support in today's world, and that starts with us young and profitors leveling up our EQ. So let's get after it. Hit that share button and send this episode to a friend and take a minute to drop us a five-star review if you enjoyed this episode.

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