Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Kelly Roach: The 5 Pillars of Conviction Marketing | Marketing | YAPClassic

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

Marketing and social media weren’t part of Kelly Roach’s world when she grew up just above the poverty line in rural Pennsylvania. She cleaned toilets to pay for dance lessons and learned early that hustle trumps circumstance. That same grit propelled her from an entry-level sales desk to the youngest vice president at her Fortune 500 company in just eight years, landing the “impossible” accounts her peers had chased for years. Instead of settling, she rose at 5 a.m. to build a coaching side hustle that became an eight-figure enterprise guiding founders from six to seven figures. In this episode, Kelly unpacks her five-step Conviction Marketing framework and three-tier pyramid that turns ordinary how-to content into a category-of-one brand. In this episode, Hala and Kelly will discuss: (00:00) Introduction (01:11) Kelly Roach's Humble Beginnings (05:20) Rising Through Corporate Ranks (09:27) Building a Business While Working Full-Time (10:16) The Importance of Sacrifice and Patience (20:19) Conviction Marketing: The Book (29:35) Identifying Industry Gaps and Building a Support Team (30:10) Introduction to the Marketing Pyramid (30:36) How-To Marketing (32:57) Hope Marketing (39:40) Conviction Marketing (51:05) Building Your Tribe Kelly Roach is the founder and CEO of Kelly Roach Coaching, creator of the Unstoppable Entrepreneur Program, and host of the top-20 marketing podcast The Kelly Roach Show. She is a bestselling author of four books, including Conviction Marketing. A trusted expert featured on ABC, NBC, Fox, and The CW, she equips entrepreneurs with the Live Launch Method, content marketing playbooks, and influencer marketing strategies to scale sustainably. Her work bridges the gap between Fortune 500 strategy and entrepreneurial agility, drawing from her background as an NFL cheerleader turned corporate executive. Sponsored By: Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠youngandprofiting.co/shopify⁠⁠ Airbnb - Find yourself a co-host at⁠⁠ airbnb.com/host⁠⁠ Indeed - Get a $75 sponsored job credit at⁠⁠ indeed.com/profiting⁠⁠   Microsoft Teams - Stop paying for tools. Get everything you need, for free at⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠aka.ms/profiting⁠⁠ LinkedIn Marketing Solutions - Get a $100 credit on your next campaign at⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/profiting⁠⁠ Bilt - Start paying rent through Bilt and take advantage of your Neighborhood Benefits™ by going to⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠joinbilt.com/PROFITING⁠⁠. Mercury - Streamline your banking and finances in one place. Learn more at⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠mercury.com/profiting⁠ Active Deals - youngandprofiting.com/deals       Key YAP Links Reviews - ratethispodcast.com/yap  Youtube - youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting  LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/htaha/  Instagram - instagram.com/yapwithhala/  Social + Podcast Services - yapmedia.com   Transcripts - youngandprofiting.com/episodes-new  Entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship podcast, Business, Business podcast, Self Improvement, Self-Improvement, Personal development, Starting a business, Strategy, Investing, Sales, Selling, Psychology, Productivity, Entrepreneurs, AI, Artificial Intelligence, Technology, Marketing, Negotiation, Money, Finance, Side hustle, Startup, mental health, Career, Leadership, Mindset, Health, Growth mindset, Marketing, SEO, E-commerce, LinkedIn, Instagram, Social Media, Digital Marketing, Content Creator, Storytelling, Advertising, Social Media Marketing, Communication, Video Marketing, Social Proof, Marketing Trends, Influencers, Influencer Marketing, Marketing Tips, Digital Trends, Content Marketing, Online Marketing, Marketing podcast

Hello young and profitors. Most businesses fight for attention, but the most successful ones command it. The secret is conviction. In this YAP Classic interview, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Kelly Roach, a powerhouse marketing coach that I look up to, who knows exactly what it takes to make a brand truly stand out in today's crowded marketplace. Kelly has helped countless businesses break free from generic cookie-cutter strategies by embracing bold, authentic messaging that commands attention.

She believes that the secret to powerful marketing isn't just tactics, it's conviction. In this episode, Kelly shared some actionable strategies for infusing emotion into your brand, creating marketing that deeply resonates, and building an audience that's not just engaged, but fully invested in your mission. Believe me, you don't wanna miss this conversation.

Here's my interview with the amazingly talented Kelly Roach. fully invested in your mission. Believe me, you don't want to miss this conversation. Here's my interview with the amazingly talented Kelly Roach. I want to take a step back and really talk about your childhood and your upbringing. So my team did some research and they told me that you were raised in a family of five. Your family was basically on the poverty line. You were always working to make ends meet. You were cleaning toilets to pay for dance lessons. After high school, you attended a local college and continued to work while you studied and danced. So let's

talk about this because obviously hard work was instilled in you at a young age. So talk to us about the value of hard work and who you are today and how putting in the reps really helped you as an adult. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, the number one thing that I learned, you know, in my life is that if there's something that you don't like, change it. And that hard work makes absolutely any dream achievable. And, you know, growing up, I had lovely parents. My parents are wonderful people but my dad worked for a non-profit my mom was a stay at home mom because there was five kids it would have been more expensive to put us in day care than it would have been

obviously to have her home with us. And my dad really had a false belief system that in order to make a difference serving for this non-profit you know that we basically had to struggle. He couldn't give back and make great money too. And I believe that that was a false belief system. And I decided to set out on a course in my life to both do good and create wealth. And that's what I've done for myself is what I teach other entrepreneurs to do. But you know, not having a fallback position, not you know. I'm getting a lot of nose growing up actually was the greatest service I ever could have because it really taught me the importance of not giving up and being willing to work

towards goals over a period of years you know I think one of the biggest misconceptions that really holds people back from accomplishing their dreams is this perception that success happens quickly or happens overnight, right? And I always say, you know, every overnight success is 15 years in the making. It doesn't matter whether you've been working towards that particular success for 15 years. There were so many things that you were working to become as a person that led you to that success. And that's why we have to make sure

that we don't get caught up in people's highlight reels. We need to like run our own race, you know, own the lane that we're in kind of thing, you know? Yeah, 100%. I love what you said around your mindset around money and how you kind of broke that generational curse that your parents had.

They meant well, but they just didn't have the right mindset about money. And a lot of people think money is bad, but money is good. The more money you have, the more you can give and help the world. Yeah, and I mean, that's just not a nice saying that you and I are tossing back and forth

because we run successful companies. I've actually researched it. I actually own my own philanthropic foundation that I use to give back that I'm able to now. When I was growing up, we were on the receiving end of charity all the time. We didn't have any money, so we couldn't do anything to help anyone else. Now I get to be on the other side of it because I've created wealth for myself. And if you research, it's the wealthiest people in the world that do the most good. Why? Why is that? Because they're the people that have disposable income

that they can use to give back and do things for others. If you're using every dollar that you make just to get by, then obviously it makes it pretty much impossible to do for others. And so we have to really shift this paradigm around money. And we have to really break this silo mentality of like you can do good or you know you can give back or you can have a lot of money you can focus on being a good person or you can focus on being

wealthy you know I believe that our generation is the first generation that is really showing like these entrepreneurs that are so dedicated to philanthropy to giving back to creating positive change in the world. But again, the reason why we're able to do that is that we've been able to create wealth for ourselves, which enables us to then serve and give back and be on the giving side of philanthropy. 100%.

I totally agree. So let's fast forward to you graduating college. You landed a job at a Fortune 500 company, and then you quickly rose up the ranks and became one of the youngest VPs of the company, or the youngest VP to ever work at that company. So talk to us about your experience in corporate, how you rose up the ranks so quickly, and why you decided to eventually start your side business, Kelly Roach coaching. Yeah. Kelly Roach coaching, sorry.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, graduating from college, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was like, I don't want to sit in spreadsheets. I love people. And I wanted to get into a big company because I wanted to create financial freedom for myself. And I knew I had the work ethic and the hustle I knew I could learn. So I was like, I'm just going to join this company, started in that entry-level position. And I was literally the first one in and the last one out every single day. I showed up for work, even in my most entry-level job

with no money, in a suit, hair and makeup, ready to take on the world every single day. And over a period of years, I was promoted seven times in eight years, and I ended up building a team of 100 people. So I started off with, you know, one branch with zero staff, zero database, complete turnaround, hired one person and then ultimately built a team of 100 across 17 locations. And, you know, we broke every record for growth in the company's history. And I had never claimed and will never claim to be the most talented.

I'm certainly not the smartest. I was like a B student and I tried really hard. I know a lot of cool entrepreneurs are like I never showed up for class and I was a horrible student and blah, blah, blah. I actually tried. I just wasn't very smart. I did math tutoring and like getting up at five in the morning to study. I just, some people have book to study. Some people have book smarts, some people have street smarts. I was always more of a common sense type person, but that has actually served me really well. So I rose through the corporate range, did that whole thing. My big dream was I want to be this corporate executive. I want to be in the boardroom and on the planes and running all the things. It know, it was an awesome dream

It was a great ride. I went through a lot I had a lot of people that were like who is this young kid that thinks she's gonna come in here So that was that was very interesting. It was not an easy rise I went through a lot including people that I personally like Mentored and promoted and really cared for like turning on me and stabbing me in the back. And that's all part for the course, right? We all go through that stuff. But you know, I've gone to the top and I had met Billy, who is now my husband, we've been together for 16 years now. And you know, we really started thinking about like, what do

we want our life to look like? You know, what do we want our priorities to be as a family? I got really clear I wanted to have financial freedom. I wanted flexibility. I wanted to be able to travel. I wanted to be able to put my family first. I was like, that's not happening working in a job for someone else. I decided to really look at what skills that I possessed. What was I good at? How did I feel like I could make a difference? And the number one thing that I had learned during my time in corporate was business growth strategy. Like I really understood better than anyone I had ever seen how to look at a scenario and identify the fastest most efficient way to take a losing situation

and make it a winning one. And I was really passionate about helping people reach their potential. It was really just those two things. And I was like, I'm going to go and bring this business education to small business owners, right? Because 85% of businesses still fail. Why do they fail? Not because the business owner isn't working their tail off.

Not because the business owner doesn't have a great idea, doesn't have the energy, the passion, but because most small business owners have no business education. I'm not talking about going to business class. I'm talking about real world business skills, the ability to understand the mechanics of how a well run company operates. I was like, you know, I'm going to do this. So I went to my boss and I said, listen, as a top performing executive in the company, and I said, Hey, listen, I'm not making enough money here. And I'm going to start my own company. And I said, I'm going to do it at night. And I'm going to do it

on the weekend. And I said, I'm going to continue to be the top performing executive in the company. And I said, you can fire me right now on the spot if you want to, because I understand you have the right to do that. I'm not gonna hide anything. But I said, this is what I'm doing. And he said, okay. So I stayed there.

I built my business at night on the weekends, built a business to pretty much the million dollar mark while still working full time as a corporate executive, and then eventually made the leap once the business was really successful, had a staff and all of that. Now a multi-figure company. But so many lessons. I mean, I think the biggest thing is just for anyone listening, if you're willing to

work at something over a period of years, you can accomplish anything. Patience is the number one thing that kills people's dreams. They're not willing to work hard enough, long enough at the same thing. We expect overnight sensation, overnight success. I had someone say to me the other day, I've been working at this thing in my business for three months and I'm just not getting traction. I actually started laughing.

I was like, and? Talk to me in a year and a half. What are you talking about? It was one of the things that really shocked me when I entered the business coaching space because I saw that there were so many people promising to teach people how to start and grow businesses in three weeks or less. They're like, six weeks, like laptop lifestyle, like, you know, whatever.

And I'm like, I don't think that's how it works, building a company. But yeah, so that's just a little bit about my story. Oh my gosh, so inspiring. And we have so many parallels to our story. I mean, my audience knows my story well, but I mean, I also, you know, when the corporate rose up the ranks, started my podcast and my business, didn't quit my corporate job

until I had 35 employees and was making 80 grand in revenue a month, you know, same thing. Like, just waited until there was absolutely no risk and worked morning, nights, weekends, lunchtime, anytime I could. But the key is, and you said it, is that you've got to work both jobs just as well. You can't go start a side hustle. If you're going to slack on your day job, that's not how it works.

You've got to do both equally. And to your point, if you're not willing to sacrifice in the short term, it's not going to work out. You're going to have to sacrifice, put in the time, if you do want to go this side hustle route, which is like the least form of risk when it comes to starting your own business. So I'd love for you to talk about that time sacrifice and how you managed your time working in corporate and building this huge business that you put together.

Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to circle back on your point there really quickly because, you know, there's this huge idea in the personal development world of like, burn the bridges, quit your job. Like look what's happening right now. The great resignation, everyone's quitting and no one has a job and no one has a plan and everyone's going to go spend their life savings and they're going to be broke and they're going to be even more depressed and they're going to be starting their life over

because they didn't put the thought into what's my plan. The best thing I ever did was keep my corporate job while I built my business. It's why I have this beautiful, robust, amazing company that I have today because I didn't have a sense of this desperation that you see in the online marketing world. I mean, people are so desperate. That's why they can't build a great company.

It's like, this has to work. This has to be, like, I can't tell you how many people I come across that wanna come into my programs that are like, and this has to work. This has to be like I can't tell you how many people I come across that want to come into my programs that are like and this has to produce and I'm like no, no. Like don't bring that energy up in here. But you are responsible for setting up a situation in your life that you can sustain. So I just want to point that out because you mentioned that Hala and I think that's really important. Smart people have a plan. Smart people have patience. You don't need to go burn the bridges. Oh, and by the way, and I'll mention one more thing. I am going back and facilitating as a guest trainer for the Fortune 500 that I worked at for 10 years. they now bring me back to literally do trainings

for their entire leadership team on the east coast from the most northern point down into the Carolinas. So, isn't that full circle? So, don't burn the bridge, don't burn the moat, have a plan, be patient, right? So, you asked about how I spent my time. So, basically I would do an hour to two hours in the morning before work.

I would go out on my little Jeep Liberty on my lunch break and I would literally make my sales calls on my lunch break and then I would do my client calls at seven and eight o'clock at night, every night. And then I would work on the weekends. And it's the best thing I ever did because it actually taught me how to build a million

dollar business while only working in my business about 20 hours a week. And it really taught me to be disciplined, to be focused, to understand where I should and shouldn't be spending my time. And it's really such a gift because now I have a family, I have a seven year old, now I run a multiple eight figure company and I have so much time freedom with my family because I built a business where I have, and you've done, our stories are like eerily similar. Very similar. You have a very large team, I do as well.

That was also a very intentional part of the design of my business and my brand, I'm sure with you as well. But like, I start my calls at 11 o'clock every day. Like, I can take off when my daughter is off. I go to the beach a couple times a week with my family. Now, I work my tail off. I'm not going to pretend for a single second and I don't want anyone to misinterpret what I'm saying. I work my tail off, okay? But what I'm saying is, is I have discipline around where I spend my time, which allows me to be intentional and allows me to put my family first.

And I was able to design a business that worked that way because I was working full-time in my job and because I sustained the position as the number one performer in my company while I was building my own business, which was a huge integrity thing for me to make sure that my results in my full-time job didn't suffer.

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Indeed.com slash profiting. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Oh my gosh. So many lessons that you're pouring out right now. Hiring, indeed, is all you need. Oh my gosh, so many lessons that you're pouring out right now. The one thing that I really hear is that you sacrificed in the short term for the long term, and you created freedom for yourself,

and you still work really hard, but the difference is that you can decide, I'm gonna take a vacation, I'm gonna work here, I'm gonna start late, I'm gonna go to my daughter's dance recital. You don't have anybody kind of telling you what to do and you're in control of your life. And you did that through sacrifice and calculated risk.

You didn't just jump the gun and just go for it and have no plan. And also the fact that you built a team. I'm sure even in that side hustle period, you were building your team and scaling and figuring all that parts out too. So I'd love to talk to you about how you built that team even when it was just a small business.

Oh, I started right away. Very much like you, I think I had like over 30 team members while I was still working full time. I don't even think they knew. But because I was so structured and so disciplined with how I was still working full-time. I don't even think they knew. But you know, because I was so structured and so disciplined with how I was doing things, like, and just so intentional about it. But to your point about sacrifice, so much sacrifice.

And the thing that's so interesting is people see people like us. I came from a family with no money, nothing, right? I came from nothing. Billy came from nothing, my head is bent. So we're like this like phenomenon in our family and people look at us and they're like, people change how they see you, friends, family, colleagues, even your clients as you rise through the

ranks and they make these assumptions about what your life is like or what your life must be like and you know, it's funny because I'll hear Billy talking to people all the time, and I'll be like, no, you don't understand. She was working at 5 o'clock in the morning every day for 15 years. This didn't just happen. Exactly. Exactly. This is 18-hour days.

There was no spontaneous combustion. This was sacrifice over years and years and years because I had my eye on the prize and I knew what kind of life that I wanted to create and build and Billy sacrificed too. I mean, he's been home with Madison since she was born. So we've been a one income family since Madison was born because our priority was we wanted her to be home.

We didn't want her in daycare. And it's amazing because even that sacrifice of like him, like really he's a musician. He completely put his career on hold, has been totally focused on Madison since she was born. And the payoff from that sacrifice has been massive because I see her and she is like confident. She is like, she's a leader. She speaks articulately. Like you can just see in everything about her being like, yeah, that sacrifice is going to pay off for the rest of her life. So you know, I just want to encourage everyone that's listening, like, you know, it can be terrifying and it can also feel, it can feel discouraging to make these sacrifices knowing that there's no promise of reward

in the near term. The biggest thing I want to say to people is these sacrifices that you make in the short term, the payoff is so much bigger and so much better than you can ever imagine. Looking back on my life now at the sacrifices that I made to get to where we are today, I would do it a hundred times over. I would not change a single thing. Every sacrifice is worth it. The times in which it's not worth it

is where you start down the path and then you quit because you just threw it all away. And that's what happens with a lot of people. It's like they'll sustain for the short term, but not the long term, but not the long term. And then that little bit of progress that they had made goes away. And it's like you start over from nothing. Right. So these are the distinctions that you have to think about your life in the long term of what you want your life to be like in five,

10 and 15 years. And you have to be making decisions today for 15 years from now. You know, and I know no one wants to hear that, but I'm a truth teller. And I'm going to be the one to say, no, you really, you really do because there's nothing you're going to do 15 years from now that's going to dramatically change what your life experience is in that moment. Those decisions are happening now. That's what we all have to recognize. Oh my gosh. Amen.

I totally agree with that. So let's get into your new book, Conviction Marketing, because I loved your book. I just ran through it. I'm a marketer myself. And so when I like a marketing book, I feel like it means a lot because I consider myself to be a great marketer.

Great job on the book. It comes out February 22nd. What was the genesis of the book? Why did you decide to write it? Yeah, I decided to write the book actually. It's so interesting. I started writing this book before the pandemic and things got so crazy the last couple of years actually that we had to push back the launch twice.

We actually, our company grew quite a bit over these last two years and so I needed to really focus on the team and the organization and everything. But I saw that there was just a crisis going on online with online marketers, like an identity crisis. And I started to see a lot of business owners just kind of flailing, like just flailing, not knowing how to anchor in to building their own brand. And that's a really dangerous thing because you'll take yourself out of business, right? There's a million people that can put up a bio in 30 seconds and say they do exactly what I do. They can do the same with you and with every person listening. And so I saw business owners really falling into these like dangerous traps to try and stand out whether it was

like copying other people's brands or just following the latest trends and fads that they're seeing on TikTok or Instagram or whatever the case. And I really want to emphasize like there's no right or wrong like in however you want to do the marketing for your brand. I'm not here to tell anyone, do this, don't do that. What I am here to say is, you have a unique calling. You have a unique why. Don't go position yourself as the second best version of someone else. That's the only thing you can do wrong,

is not honoring the DNA of your own business, not honoring the DNA of your own brand. And so I wanted to help business owners to understand how they could identify their poor belief system, their convictions, how they could really get clear on how am I different and what makes me different and how do I share that in an authentic and meaningful way that builds my legacy body of work versus doing stupid crap that you're going to regret later, right? I mean, just to be completely transparent. And, you know, obviously there's a huge what's in it for me because I teach business owners

how to scale their brands online. So I want my clients and my audience to be more successful at understanding how to build a category of one brand. I saw that pretty much everything that people were doing was great for short-term clicks and short-term conversions, but not great for actually building a business of substance and significance that will stand the test of time.

And so the goal of the book is to give a framework that people can follow to not build a brand that looks like mine, not build a brand that looks like yours, to literally walk away from the book like, holy shit, like I had a unique calling, a unique set of DNA, a unique set of beliefs and convictions, and I can do this my own way without compromise. Hmm. I have to say, I was reading your book and I was like, yes, yes, yes. Everything that I was reading, I was like, you are so right.

I never thought of it in the way that you outlined it in your framework, but I agree with everything that you say. And I can't wait to dive really deep on some of the steps to get to be that category of one. So let's talk about the five essential steps that you outline in your book. Can you walk us through them at a high level? Yeah, definitely.

So, I mean, let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start, right? The first thing is, I think you have to step away from the copy paste trap and you have to put yourself in a position to really say, I am going to be the best version of me and only me versus the second best version of someone else. So I would say like, first things first, let's just like set a baseline of like, we're going

to go to market in a unique way that represents who we are and what we're called to do. And as a part of that foundation, it's really about identifying what your core convictions are. You have to know what you believe in order to make every decision in your business about how you're going to stand out and what you're going to do in order to achieve your financial and impact goals. And I know everyone listening has money that they want to make and a difference that they want to create. And if you don't know what your anchors are, those things that you're going to burn up a stake for are, you know, it's going to be really hard to do that.

So the foundation is identifying and deciding that you're going to build your own brand, not someone else's. Right. And then marrying that with identifying your beliefs, your convictions. And I think then people always have the question about there's things that people do and don't feel comfortable talking about online. And so I just want to address that really quickly. I am a hugely private person. I don't share my opinions about a lot of my personal belief systems online. I don't share a lot of my personal life online.

I have a seven-year-old daughter. My family life is like my everything, and I'm not the kind of person that documents my lunch and does all that stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but I'm sharing that because I think that when people hear a conviction and when people hear beliefs, they're like, but I can't.

And it's like, no. You can have very deep convictions that are specifically related to the way that you do podcast production. You can have very deep convictions specifically about the way that you teach people to position their podcasts. You can have very deep beliefs about any area of your business, right? That does not put you in a space of being controversial or being afraid you're gonna get your account shut down or

talking about things that you're uncomfortable talking about. So I do want to put that out there because I know that's always a question that people have and you don't have to be controversial in order to stand out. You don't have to be controversial in order to be convicted, but you do need to have a belief system because otherwise, why would someone choose to work with you versus choosing to work with someone else? And that's the problem. Everyone wants to say, me too. Every marketer wants to say, oh yeah, like everyone in my space is doing this. Yeah, we do that too. And we do it better. No one wants to hear that. Like everyone's heard that a million times. Like, don't tell me that you do that

too. Tell me what you do differently. Tell me what you do that is completely unique. Tell me what your thought process is that's actually different than the rest of your industry that makes me say, oh, hey, like, yeah, I want to have a conversation and check out what you're doing. Right? Does that make sense? Let can pause there because I know I just kind of covered a lot. No, I think that totally makes sense. I feel like a lot of people don't understand that you need to differentiate if you want to succeed and you need to be the solution

for what people are looking for. And if you're out there saying me too, then you're just copying everyone else and not really differentiating yourself. So totally agree there. Yeah. And then you have to really identify the gap, right? This is something that I have been teaching for years. And I will tell you that the business owners that really understand how to identify the gap in their industry,

they become multimillion dollar successes very, very quickly. In every industry, there is a wide open gap, right? The best example that I can give that everyone can identify is the taxi industry. The taxi industry was off the rails with so many issues for decades. No one did anything about it. It was inconvenient. You could never get a taxi when you needed it. We could go on and on and on. So in came Uber. They filled the gap and it was just like spontaneous combustion. came over, they filled the gap and it was just like spontaneous combustion. And now look at that industry and people are even starting their own private car fleets where they have their own two, three cars that they're running out almost similar to like the Airbnb, VRDO industry where they're literally like running out their own cars because there's a gap.

And now, especially in like the luxury space, people want to, you know, they're going on vacation, right? Because there's a gap. And now, especially in like the luxury space, like people want to, you know, they're going on vacation, right? You go to the normal car dealership, you're like, I don't really want a Jeep Liberty on my vacation. I want like a Ferrari, right? So that's like an obvious thing. But the thing that's so interesting is that there is a gap in every industry. There are big issues that no one has taken the time, no one has taken the concern, no one has taken the money to innovate and create a solution to.

I saw it in the coaching industry. I looked at every single one of my peers, and what did I see? They were all running these massive programs where they were dumping people into a Facebook group, they didn't have any team to support them. People couldn't get their questions answered. Someone would post a question to Facebook group and there would be 100

comments that just said F. I didn't know what that meant. And then I found out that meant following. So it's the blind leading the blind. No one has any answers. Everybody's looking around. There's no coach to be found. And then we wonder why people are spending one hundred thousand dollars on coaching for their business and

they're right back where they started. So what did I do? I said, I'm going to build a full-time team of 30 support members. I'm going to have every single person that goes through my program have one-to-one support in addition to the program that they're going through. They're going to have accountability. They're going to have accessibility. I took the whole model, flipped it on its head.

My business exploded. There's a gap in every industry. It's not hard. It's just instead of you saying, how do I replicate what my industry is doing? You say, what are the issues in my industry? And how do I step up to fill them or to fix them? I love that. So let's move into your pyramid, if you wouldn't mind, because I feel like it's a good place to talk about it. So your pyramid is made up of three levels. The first level is how to marketing, and then it's hope marketing and conviction marketing. So from my understanding, the how to marketing is really the foundational piece that you got to start with to command credibility and authority. Talk to us about this how to marketing and how to do it effectively. Yeah, absolutely.

So how-to marketing is the most basic element of marketing. And it's typically the way that people enter your ecosystem. It's simple. It's easy to do. Anyone can do it. It costs you nothing. Record a quick video on your iPhone. Pop it on your stories.

Pop it on your page. Share it across different profiles. Boom, you're doing how-to marketing. This is literally a transfer of knowledge. It's where I'm showing you, hey, Hala, I know how to do something that I know you're interested in doing. I'm going to be your teacher. So all of a sudden, Hala watches my video. She spent two minutes with me. She's like, damn, I like this girl. She just taught me how to do something I didn't know how to do. All of a sudden, she's like, cool, okay, this is someone that I like. This is someone I

trust. You know, whatever the case. So how-to marketing serves a really important purpose because when people are scanning the airwaves and when they're looking for new accounts to follow and they're looking for new people to learn from, they want quick, digestible, instant tips. Easy. Okay. The problem is that's where most people stop. Now the problem with this is just like people are scanning the airwaves looking for a quick, easy, actionable tip, they're doing that all day, every day. It's called escapism, right? That's why people go online and scroll and scroll and scroll. It's escapism. So it's kind of like you got the girl, she said yes to

the date and now you're like, cool, I already had a date with that girl. Let me see. Oh, she's really cute over there, right? And then someone, right. So the problem with how to marketing is it's a great way to get people in your ecosystem. It's not a great way to keep them in your ecosystem. And we have to remember what's the purpose of marketing. The purpose of marketing is to attract so that you can nurture and finally convert people into paying customers. Well if you miss this middle section of nurture they never make it over here to conversion and that's what's happening to a lot of marketers. They pump out this how-to marketing and this is you know a lot of

people are doing their pointing and they're dancing and you know they're lip-syncing and all of those things and that's fine do you have a way to then bring them through that process and finally get them to convert okay so how to get some in it doesn't keep them there we want you to not just do how to but we want to elevate from okay I see you as a credible teacher I see you as an authority wonderful now let's elevate. Let's figure out how are we gonna get people to keep coming back?

Well, if you notice in the conversation that we're having here today, Hala, we talked a lot about stories, right? We talked a lot about experiences that I had experiences that you had, ways that we resonate with each other. We talked about failure. We talked about setbacks.

We talked about patience and sacrifice. What did we just do? Bring out emotions. Exactly. So the people that are experiencing this show are going to say, you know what, I've only been working at that goal for a year. I think I can keep going. Kelly kept going. Hala kept going. They both run these wildly successful companies now. Maybe there's nothing wrong with me that I wasn't an overnight success in six months. Maybe if I stick with it, I am gonna achieve my goals after all.

Okay, now we're on to something, right? And this is why, of course, podcasting is so powerful. It's such an amazing medium for hope marketing. So hope marketing is the biggest chunk of your pyramid and this is where you really connect with your audience in an emotional and a sensitive way where people are like you're not just a teacher you're not just an authority figure you are my friend you are my confidant you are my cheerleader you are the person that has been in my shoes you understand

everything that I've gone through. You understand everything I'm going through now and you cross the bridge the other side. So hope marketing is really about reaching down, grabbing your audience and like wrapping your arms around them and saying like no you're not quitting. You're coming with me on this journey. I'm going to support you every step of the way. I've been there. You can get there too and hope marketing is really what's going to keep people coming back. I call it like the sweetest factor of your brand. It's the thing that really makes people feel deeply connected to you as a person, not just as a marketer that can give

instruction, but as a human being that has feelings, that has emotion, that's been through some things. Right? Does that make sense? Oh my gosh, totally makes sense. And I can attest to this. I mean, when I go on a podcast, for example, and share my story, that's when I get all these people like hitting me up, asking to do business with me, and things like that,

because they feel so emotionally connected. They could see any sort of PowerPoint slides about my results or whatever, but that wouldn't seal the deal. It's about liking the person and feeling connected with the person that you want to work with, which is so key. So what are some other actionable ways that we can bring this emotion to our branding aside from the obvious ones, which is like social media posts and having a podcast where you tell your personal story? It's literally, you can do it with anything. I mean, you can tell stories.

I mean, for me, a lot of times, even when I do like Instagram stories or Facebook stories, I'm literally just giving encouragement. It's encouragement. It's sharing mistakes. It's sharing setbacks that you work through. I think one of the things that's most endearing when you're a teacher that wants people to want to work with you is not when you just show your highlight reel of all of

your greatness and all of your wonderful accomplishments, but instead when you say, listen, I failed at this and I failed at this and I failed at this and this is what I learned from it and this is who I became and this is why I'm successful today. And these are all the things that you can skip over that you don't have to go through because I did and I'm going to tell you what to do instead. So I think it can be in podcasts, it can be in live streams, it can be in videos, it can be in emails, it can be in posts on social media stories, right? It can be from the stage, it can be from behind the microphone, anywhere that you connect with your audience, it can be in a book, right? In a book any way you want.

But the bottom line is it's going from transaction, which is not emotional, and it doesn't have staying power, to relational, which now is what creates that desire, that stickiness factor in the brand for people to want to stay with you. Yeah, and then I think there's another mistake that people make in all

this is just focusing on hope marketing alone and not doing any of the informational how-to stuff. So talk to us about that. Amen and hallelujah. Yes. All the time. And that's why I wanted to actually give the illustration and the exercises in the book

about the pyramid. Because it's not about swinging the pendulum and the exercises in the book about the pyramid, because it's not about swinging the pendulum from one side to the other. It's about understanding how these things work together. There's so many people that it's like their entire brand is just fluff. And it's like, what do you even do? Why are we even like get out of my feet? Why are you even here? What is this? I don't understand what the context of this soft, like, just fluff is all the time. So I completely agree with you.

Like, there has to be an intelligence to your brand. Like, what is it that you teach? What is it that you do? There's a lot of people that go so deep in the wrong direction that literally you don't even know what their business is. If I go to your social media and I don't even understand what your offer is, what your business is, what it is that you do, that's a problem.

So again, the pyramid is about, think about it like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You work your way through the pyramid. You don't say, oh, I'm going to pull out this one piece of the pyramid and that's going to make me happy and fulfilled. No, right? Each of the pieces of the pyramid go together. So I'm really happy you brought that up, Paula. Totally. One more thing about how to marketing that I think is important. If you're going to do how to marketing, isn't it true that you should really focus on a couple things and not just do like how to's about everything in your industry because then nobody's going

to know what you're really about. Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. I mean, this goes back to what we were talking about, you know, at the beginning of the show, where this lack of patience is the number one saboteur for small business owners. I mean, I see so many businesses that one day they're marketing this. And then the next day you see them marketing something that has nothing to do with that other thing. And you're like, so now you're expert of nothing. You're literally expert of nothing. The more that you keep changing your messaging over and over and

over. And we'll talk about this also with the conviction, the top of the pyramid, but you keep changing what you're talking about all the time and you're doing how-to marketing on things that have nothing to do with the core anchors of your brand, of course that's gonna create a confused mind and a confused mind always says no, right? So that's a great point.

I totally agree. She is dropping bombs right now. I would advise everybody to go rewind that part back. And now we're going to move to the top level of the pyramid, which is like the elite level. You can't get to it until you finish steps one and two, how to and hope. And then you can be, you know, top of your field if you can get conviction marketing, right? So talk to us about what that definition is and what that is. Yeah, it's absolutely true.

So the way that you want to think about it is at the bottom of the pyramid, you're a teacher, right? You're giving tips, you're giving strategies, you're giving how-tos. You are demonstrating that you have knowledge and expertise that your audience does, and therefore you're in a position of authority. In the second category, now you're their confidant,

you're their friend, you're someone that they want to hang out with. They want to have a glass of wine, a cup of coffee, you know, they want to have a beer with you, they're someone that you like. So they know you now, they like you, right, and you're kind of like that cheerleader, that friend that they kind of want to stay connected to. But let's talk about how we get from the friend category, right, to the mentor, the trusted advisor category, because you're just going to give your friends money, right? to the mentor, the trusted advisor category. Because you're not just gonna give your friends money, right? You're gonna give your money to the mentor

that you believe is gonna change your life. And when you asked earlier about the people that are just focused on hope marketing, that's a big problem. That's why a lot of people struggle to convert, because they literally put themselves square in that friend category. You're not going to go buy from the person that you like the most.

You're going to go buy from the person that you think is going to change your life. It's going to solve your biggest problem. That's going to make the biggest difference that you're going to get the biggest transformation from. So conviction marketing is about stepping into that role of trusted mentor. It's about stepping into that role of your greatest advisor, right? When you think about the category that you're in, you want to own that word in the mind of your audience. You want to own that category in the mind of your audience. And conviction

is the only thing that's going to do that for you. Conviction is what's going to lead to conversions. I would write that down. Conviction equals conversions. What does it mean to be convicted? It means to be so strong and so powerful in a set of beliefs, right? It's about beliefs. And when you think about conviction, why is conviction important and why do so many marketers struggle to convert? Because they're not convicted. Because they're so worried about what everyone else is doing and the things that they're

saying aren't really their authentic message, they're someone else's message that they're trying to make their own. It's very difficult to have conviction when you're saying things that aren't grounded from like your heart and your soul, that aren't a part of who you are, that aren't so deep in your belief system that every area of your business, from your messaging, your marketing, the way that your offer is delivered, the way that you service your clients,

the focus of your programming, the result that you provide. Conviction marketing is about taking a set of core beliefs and infusing them in every single element of your brand so that when anyone interacts with you they understand that you believe above all else that these elements must be present and that they expect a certain experience, they expect a certain result, they feel confident that they are going to achieve a certain outcome when they open up their wallet and give you their credit card because you are so convicted.

You have such a high level of belief about the result that you're going to provide and the why of how you provide that result. And this is why in the book we start off with identifying your belief system and then talking about how that materializes in your brand, identifying the gap in your market and then really getting clear on how you're going to fill the gap in your market, and then really getting clear on how you're going to fill the gap in the market. Like these are actual exercises that you do in the book. Because you might have to do a little self work to do this.

This is about slowing down and killing the idea back a little bit. And I think that, and I know I felt this way when I first started in the online space, I felt a little scared to lead with conviction because I was no one and I had no clients and I didn't really know how the heck am I going to get someone to want to buy from me when I'm a nobody, when everyone else in my space is over here talking about this and doing this,

but it actually doesn't work that way. It actually works when people interact with you. The number one thing that they're saying is, do I believe this person? Like, do I believe this person? Like, do I trust you? Do I trust that linking arms with you is going to make my life better? Do I believe that by giving you my money,

this result is going to happen? It's all about believability. So if it's all about believability, you better know what your convictions are and you better be able to say those convictions with a level of confidence and certainty that is going to go from this warm and fluffy brand that people think, oh, I learn a lot from this person. Oh, I really like this person. They've been through a lot.

They really inspire me to know this person is pretty certain that they're the best in the world at what they do. And I believe them. So I'm gonna pull out my credit card and spend my money to work. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. Hey, young and profitors. I know so many of you are in your grind season.

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while you're talking is that if you're gonna move to the conviction marketing, you really actually have to be an expert of your industry because it doesn't allow you to not be an expert. I see too many people, for example, trying to make it in the podcast industry and they don't even know how the podcast industry works. I'm like, how are you even trying to succeed in this industry if you don't even take the time to understand it?

And to your point, understand the gaps and how you would fill them. So it forces you to really know your industry and really know your stuff. Whereas the other things you could get away with, like learning one little thing and like seeming like you know your stuff, you actually need to know your entire industry and the ins and outs of it to be good at conviction marketing.

And then I think a lot of people, if they are experts, they might go about it in the wrong way, where they just keep shouting from the rooftops what's wrong instead of shouting what they should be doing to make it right. So talk to us about that. I want to peel that back a lot because those are really great points. So number one, this is what I love about conviction marketing. You can't do conviction marketing if you're not an expert.

So you better either become an expert or you better get yourself into a business where you are actually an expert. I mean, just like you said, you see that with podcasting. I see that with business strategies. There's like teenagers that teach business coaching now. And I'm like, okay, God help me. But I'm like, it doesn't worry me. Because when you're talking about using this pyramid to create marketing that leverages all three of these capacities, you simply can't execute on what I'm talking about if you don't have the skillset to do it. It will show through.

It will be so obvious, right? So it's beautiful because it forces you either to get better or to understand why you are better. Right? One or the other, one or the other better. Right? One or the other. One or the other. You got to do one or the other. So I definitely agree with that.

And then yeah, I did address that in the book and I do have a concern about that. You know, I see a lot of people kind of get bitter about, you know, the competition in their space or about what they see going on with other people or about trends that they see in their industry. And they kind of have a lot to say about like what's wrong. And you know I talk about this in the book there's a whole chapter about this but like this isn't about like complaining and like shouting from the rooftops about what's wrong.

This is about like get off your butt and do something about it. Like this is about calling you out and saying, okay, you believe it can be better, you believe it can be different, how are you making it better? How are you making it different? What are you doing that's addressing those things? When I saw the coaching space and I was like, this isn't fair and this isn't right, that these people think they're going into these coaching programs and their life is going to change and then they get in there and they're totally lost. There's no one accessible. There's no one available. There's no one to help them. I didn't start creating all this content talking about like, the coaching industry sucks and

there's no support for people. And I didn't say a word. I literally was like, here's what I'm doing about it. And I did it. And then I sold what I was doing. And our business exploded. So this isn't about pointing out or calling out what other people are doing wrong. This is about identifying, well, what do you think could be done better or different? Go and do it and don't run your mouth about it. Share what you're actually doing. And so it is about critical thinking

and it is about going the extra mile. And I say this all the time at the extra mile Is so not crowded. It's crazy Like it's not crowded. So it's really really busy down here But like as you claim the ranks it becomes easier and easier to stand out because people are like there's nothing that compares Because most people aren't willing to go the extra mile, right? Mm-hmm. I totally agree.

So, okay, let's talk about how to actually come up with our convictions and talk about some actionable strategies to do that because from my understanding, it's really about identifying the gaps, then figuring out what's wrong, and then reframing that to how you're going to make it better. So can you kind of just walk us through some steps we should take? Yeah, the first thing to do is to really take yourself all the way back to the beginning of when you decided to get into business.

And the most important thing is, hopefully you are a consumer in your own space or have been at some point, right? So go all the way back to the beginning of your experience, doing what you do, and really ask yourself, what was the thing that compelled you more than anything to kind of throw your hat in the ring and say, I'm gonna start a business doing X, right?

Typically when we decide to go into a certain space, there's something that we believe to be true. There's something deep that's driving us that makes us feel that we can do something better or different or at least that can compete with all of the millions of other people that are doing the same business we're doing in their own way, right? And so it's really going back to the very beginning and saying, well, what compelled you to even start this business?

What made you to decide that you're going to dedicate your? What made you decide that you were gonna dedicate your life to doing this thing that you're doing? And that's a great place to start because there's usually a pretty deep why there for people. But what happens is we get into our business and we're like starry eyed and we're so excited and we're so optimistic and we have all these big ideas and we have this grand plan for what we're gonna do.

And then life like hits us like a map truck, right? Because we realize, oh my gosh, this is hard. And when we realize this is hard, that's when key people start to push aside their deep passion, their deep conviction, their big why, and they start scrambling to kind of like keep up with and do what's being done already because they want to be competitive. So scrambling to kind of like keep up with and do what's being done already because they want to be competitive. So you need to kind of like almost like clean your palate, I'll say, let go of those things and return to the very beginning of what compelled you to get started in the first place. What was your big why?

What made you say, I'm going to dedicate my life to doing this thing that I'm doing? That's your foundation. Beautiful. So I want to move on to the third step of your frame wipe, which we haven't talked about at all, and that's building your tribe. So I know we only have about 10 minutes left or less, so tell us about building your tribe and what are the components of that? Yeah, absolutely. So when you think about stickiness, which stickiness is the only way that you're going to get from the attraction all the way over to the conversion again. So what's the point of all of this? The point is we want to help

you to be more effective at attracting people into your ecosystem and ultimately converting them into paying clients. We want to help you make your dreams come true. That means that you need to be really good at creating a stickiness factor because it can take people sometimes three months six months nine months a year a year and a half. To work their way through your ecosystem some

some people are going to buy in a day some people are going to buy after studying you for years at a time right so there has to be a stickiness factor the stickiness factor a lot of times is the tribe that you created the community it's the brand. And this is about having common beliefs, common language, common ways that

you think about the world, common values, right? Which again, of course, go back to conviction. So you want to think about how are you creating community? What is the belief system of your community? What's kind of the code of ethics? How do you interact with each other? What's the language that you use? What do you believe in your community and what are the pillars of this community? Right? And when you think about that, usually in any really tight-knit community, there's something that people are raging against and there's something that people are fighting for Right. And so what you want to think about is what's the common language that you're going to create that you're gonna get everyone to kind of Use and operate with so it's like we have this thing between us that is common and sacred

What is it that you're going to be rallying against and what is it that you're going to be fighting for? And again, we're not rallying against people. is it that you're going to be fighting for. And again, we're not rallying against people, we're not discouraging other brands, right, or playing nice in the sandbox, you know, but you have to understand what it is that you're trying to create a distinction around. You have to be really, really clear. When I launched the live launch method and I started teaching that, what I really was rallying people against was the complexity of technology. I said, look, I'm going to teach you how to launch from your phone with no tech tools, no slides, no outside tech

team, no pre-recording, none of that stuff. You're going to throw it all out the window and you're just going to show up live for 90s and you're going to convert a million dollars. And that's what we were rallying people against is this complexity that was standing in the way of people being able to actually focus on connecting with their audience, which is why they couldn't convert because they're managing websites and pre-record and doing all these other things. So again, we're going to keep it clean. Okay.

We're going to keep it clean. You always want to think about building a legacy body of work that you'll be proud of five ten fifteen years from now But you have to understand the operating reality of your people What are you fighting against and what are you fighting for? right and make that a Common language and it common energy and you know get everyone in a space where they don't want to disconnect from you and they don't want to disconnect from your community because they feel a sense of belonging. They feel a sense of shared values.

They have common language. And again, they feel like their life is going to be enhanced as a result of staying connected to this community. Could you just give us a few examples of this language aspect that you're talking about? Because I just want to make sure that's clear. Yeah, it can be anything. It can literally be anything. So, like for me, I picked the word unstoppable. And I literally defined the word unstoppable.

And like people will refer to me and they'll say, she's the unstoppable girl, right? Because I started so many years ago talking about this word unstoppable and I defined it as you know you're unstoppable if you're a person that despite setbacks and challenges and chaos and turbulence and every reason that you can make an excuse to fail that you decide to keep fighting for your dreams anyway and you don't stop taking action until you accomplish them. And I literally talked about this hundreds and hundreds

and hundreds of times. I wrote a book named Unstoppable. I built the names of my groups around it. I built the name of my program around it. So it literally created this tribe mentality of people that suffered setbacks, went through the challenges, went through all these things,

but believe so deeply in their goals and dreams that they're making them come true anyway. You can pick any word, you can pick any language, you can pick anything you want. But again, this is about taking a step back and not trying to be or do or compare or compete with anyone. It is literally what are the words

that you wanna build your ecosystem around? What is the mentality that you wanna have as a shared mentality amongst you and ultimately your clients? What do you want that relationship to be? Yeah, and I think it also kind of makes it like exclusive because it's like only if you know, you know. Like for example, all my listeners are called the young and profitors. exclusive because it's like only if you know, you know. Like for example, all my listeners

are called the young and profitors. And so it's like, you only know that if you listen to the show and all the other young and profitors know that they're young and profitors, you know. So I feel like it's also that common language that kind of bonds everyone in the community so that it really feels like a tribe. So whether that's like some framework that you came up with

that has a specific name or phrase, so I totally agree there. Even your word conviction marketing is one of your tribe words, I think. So we don't have time to get into steps four and five of your framework, so everybody out there, make sure you go grab Conviction Marketing February 22nd. Is there anything you wanna round out

before we move on to the last question of the day? No, I would just say, yeah, absolutely. If standing out and becoming a category one brand is important to you, know that there's a framework to do it. It's going to take a little courage, right? But it's accessible to everyone. Love it. Okay.

So the last couple of questions that I ask all my guests is first, what is one actionable thing we can do today to become more profiting tomorrow? Connect with a human being about your business. I have too many times to ask business owners that tell me that they want to grow and I'll say, well, how many prospects did you actually get on video or send a message to or connect with this week and it's like zero? So just go talk to another human being.

Love it. Great advice. And what is your secret to profiting in life? Alignment. It's doing what I say I'm going to do and acting in alignment with what I want to experience. Very clear crystal answer. Thank you so much Kelly. I loved this conversation. I admire you. Thank you so much for your time. It was an awesome conversation and you guys can get on the waitlist for the book at convictionmarketing.com. Thank you so much for having me, Hala. Thank you so much, Kelly.