Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Kevin Miller: Driven, Unlocking the Forces that Propel Us Forward | Entrepreneurship E237

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

Until his early thirties, Kevin Miller was an elite professional cyclist who ran several businesses on the side. But eventually his highly-driven lifestyle reached its limit, and Kevin was left wondering whether his drive for achievement had actually created the type of success he really yearned for or given him what he truly wanted most: peace. In this episode, Kevin will debunk today’s myths about “driven people.” He will teach us how to find clarity and conviction in what we authentically value, and he will break down the “five gears of drive” and how to unlock them in every area of our lives.   Kevin Miller is a former pro athlete, personal development guide, and host of the top-ranking podcast Self-Helpful, which has over 60 million downloads and is visited by today’s most influential changemakers. He is also the author of the newly released book, What Drives You. In this episode, Hala and Kevin will discuss:  - Kevin’s athletic journey  - His path to entrepreneurship - The genesis of his new book What Drives You - His definition of drive - Why there’s no such thing as a lazy person - Why some driven people are like addicts - Why your drive is just a thought away - The five gears of drive and how to unlock them - How emotion can drive us and not logic - Where to find our purpose zones - And other topics… Kevin Miller is a former pro athlete, respected personal development guide, top-ranking podcast host, published author, and father of nine who has devoted himself to helping people elevate their personal experience and improve the way they show up for others. Kevin hosts the Self-Helpful podcast (Glassbox Media), which has over 60 million downloads and is routinely visited by today’s most influential changemakers.  His book, What Drives You, challenges today’s myths on “driven people” and serves as a guide for clarity and conviction in what you authentically value and what truly motivates you. Kevin is often out on the Rocky Mountain trails riding, running, and competing at the elite level in his age group. Resources Mentioned: Kevin’s Website: https://www.kevinmiller.co/  Kevin’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinmillerco/ Kevin’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/kevinmillerco   Kevin’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevinmiller.co/ Kevin’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kevinmillerco Kevin’s book What Drives You: https://www.amazon.com/What-Drives-You-Motivators-Accelerate/dp/1264269765/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1NH6N139TNXMX&keywords=%22what%20drives%20you%22&qid=1671318821&redirectFromSmile=1&sprefix=what%20drives%20you%20%2Caps%2C121&sr=8-4  Self Helpful Podcast with Kevin Miller https://www.kevinmiller.co/podcast  LinkedIn Secrets Masterclass, Have Job Security For Life: Use code ‘podcast’ for 30% off at yapmedia.io/course. Active Deals - youngandprofiting.com/deals Key YAP Links Reviews - ratethispodcast.com/yap Youtube - youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Instagram - instagram.com/yapwithhala/ Social + Podcast Services: yapmedia.com Transcripts - youngandprofiting.com/episodes-new Entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship podcast, Business, Business podcast, Self Improvement, Self-Improvement, Personal development, Starting a business, Strategy, Investing, Sales, Selling, Psychology, Productivity, Entrepreneurs, AI, Artificial Intelligence, Technology, Marketing, Negotiation, Money, Finance, Side hustle, Startup, mental health, Career, Leadership, Mindset, Health, Growth mindset.

We look at people and think it's kind of like this lottery that some people are driven. You know, my buddy over here, you know, I wish I was driven like him. And I look at people and think, man, I see drive in most everyone. It exists there. What's really interesting is when some inciting incident happens, it's like zero to hero overnight. This seemingly not driven person in a moment becomes super driven. You know, you leave your home and you get out and you think, I'm free. And you're not. You're so programmed. And if we would get that and go, huh, let's do an audit.

What is my programming? What have I grown up with? Why do I think the way that I do? We put more thought into our, you know, annual vacation than we do our overall life goals and our vocational goals, our relationship goals. And I think that's why we see again, that increase right now that we're seeing in just apathy and lack of purpose. What is up young and profitors? You're listening to to Yap, a Young and Profiting Podcast, where we interview the brightest minds in the world and unpack their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. I'm your host, Halitaha. Thanks for tuning in and get ready to listen, learn, and profit.

Hey, Kevin, welcome to Young Improfiting Podcast. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. Thanks for having me. I am very excited to have you on Kevin. Young Improfitors, we're joined today by Kevin Miller. He's a former pro athlete, personal development guide, and host of the top ranking podcast, Self-H helpful, which has over 60 million downloads and is visited by today's most influential changemakers. He's also the author of a newly released book called What Drives You.

In this episode, Kevin will debunk today's myths on driven people, and he'll teach us how to find clarity and conviction in what we authentically value. He'll also break down the five gears of drive and how to unlock it in every area of our lives. So, Kevin, I want to get started with your story. I learned from my research that by the age of 10, you were a nationally ranked BMX racer. So what made your environment growing up different and where did your athletic drive come from? It's actually a great question. I didn't have athletic parents necessarily, but it's one of those things of exposure. You know, they talk about Bill Gates. Was he super brilliant? But he, I don't know, because he just had, I think it was Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers. He talked to you had access to it.

So they built a BMX track in my town. So it was a cool thing. a little town in Kentucky, I started racing. And that's all we did back then. It was ride our bikes around and goof off and started racing. And just, man, it was just a good fit for me for whatever reason and took me out of I was doing ball sports and whatnot, but found my groove in bikes. And then, you know, ultimately went on to cycling and endurance sports. And that's, I mean, even today, man, that's my love.

That's why I spent this morning doing out mountain biking in the woods and just, I love, I love that flow. Yeah, it's really interesting. We're going to talk about it later, but what drives you is often what you're exposed to. And sometimes that turns into what you actually desire or want. So we'll talk about that later. I'm glad that you sort of tease that out. I also learned that by 15, you started a window tinting business.

And you co-founded 19 startups. So you've always had an entrepreneurial drive. Can you talk to us and walk us through your career journey and then how you ended up now as such a prominent podcaster? I was handed business on a silver platter. It's all my dad ever did. He was, you know, they'd call him now a serial entrepreneur. That was my exposure, was running a business. And that was important to him that I understood how to run a business. And so I got to be a part as kids, as kids were playing on Saturday mornings, I was with him in whatever business he had helping and working. And so I was so fortunate. Even more than business, it just showed me the benefit of doing something you were interested in, something you enjoyed, and owning it and taking responsibility for that and all the benefits of that. So I never thought of anything different. And I think it fit me as well, even just my personality type. It's not like, I mean, gosh, me as an entrepreneur, I've got a lot of kids. It's not like everyone I'm going to go be self-employed. I've got some pursuing the academic route, you know, right now.

But I still appreciate the value of that. So yeah, I started working with him in businesses, started a window-attending business because he was in the car industry at the time. Oh, my gosh, my friends back then, I'm not going to date myself. Minimum wage was not that much. It was like $3.75 or something goofy. And I'm making like $50 an hour tempting windows. It was killer.

And that's what funded my cycling initially. But then, you know, went into cycling and became a pro-cyclist. But then even along there, it was always looking at opportunities. and I wanted to do them. I wanted to make them come to life. So that's what starting a business is. I still don't think of myself as that great. I don't think I am that great of a businessman. But if you got ideas and you want to pursue them, you become an entrepreneur, right? Whether you're a great business person or not. And hopefully, if you're not, you get help with your businesses. But yeah, so a lot of startups because it was just ideas that I had, things that I wanted to see happen. And it wasn't ever an effort to go, you know, let's start a business. And I should have

had more of a projection on what I actually wanted to do with the businesses, but I just wanted to see something come to life. I love that. I love that part of entrepreneurship. Yeah, we definitely have that in common just trying to start things and see what happens and not being afraid to start something new. So fun fact, you have nine kids. So that's incredible. I'm sure they keep you really busy plus this new book, your huge podcast. Curious, is your podcast now really your full-time thing? Because you've got a really big show. You're not just somebody who. as a podcast. You have a top podcast like myself. So is that really what you're doing full time? You should know. Yeah. I mean, it really, it really is. I mean, you always have side gigs that you're

working on in interest. But at this point, it is my primary focus, even with the book, which I mean, I'm excited about the book, but my promotion of what I'm involved in still tends to be around the show. I mean, that's the day-to-day thing. I love, I love doing it. As a matter of fact, I've still got a book behind me from a show I did a second part with Dr. Will Cole. He's Gwyneth Paltrow's doc, you know, great guy. And I got to have a conversation with him today. And it's just it's the same, you know, what I'd want to talk about with you too. Just talk about life, talk about what's important.

And I love doing it. So yeah, it's the full-time gig. Obviously, the book is a part of that. And we're starting a community up and whatnot. But it's all pieces of that. And it's just conversations around things we enjoy, which you're doing them too. It's interesting. I looked at your Instagram page today and saw, what is this, seven people real quick

that I've had on the show, Joshua Peck and Dan Pink, Guy Kawasaki, Ben Harding, keep going on. We have so much overlap. It's crazy. I know. What a gift that we get to talk to people like that, like you. It really, really is. Unlike you, Kevin. So let's talk about the genesis of your new book because you've had a lot of success.

And from my understanding, what drove you to write this book is that even though you had all of this success, you didn't necessarily feel complete. So talk to us about why you decided to write this book. Hala honestly came from the realization, I think lately, especially as we have such a mental health crisis and we see the diseases of despair increasing so much apathy and depression and things like that. And it just kind of dawned on me. What a gift. What a privilege, whatever you want to call it, that I wake up every morning with Drive. And I wish I could bottle that up and we could all figure it out, which is what I started to do then. What makes that?

And I'd have people on the show and ask, you know, you kind of wonder, why did they go this direction? Maybe they had a sibling who didn't, you know, who wasn't, quote, didn't seem at least driven. And I started wanting to unpack. What does, what is Drive really about? And it mattered to me. I'm so grateful for having it. I wanted it. I want my kids to be driven towards things that they're interested. You know, it's another way of looking at purpose. I mean, somebody finds purpose. They find

drive. But it did, it did bring up a really the best way to say it, how it's a frustration, that we look at people and think it's kind of like this lottery, that some people are driven, you know, my buddy over here, you know, I wish I was driven like him. Or we look at the celebrity or whatever and the athlete or whatnot and think, oh, I wish I was driven. And I look at people and think, man, I see drive in most everyone. It exists there. And what's really interesting is when some inciting incident, as Donald Miller, who you had on the show as well, some inciting incident happens. He's who brought that delight for me. And they become, it's like zero to hero overnight. They go this seemingly not driven person in a moment become super driven. That's why I use Ben Hardy,

who you also had on the show, had on your show. That's why I used him as my story because it was so profound to go from this aimless, it had nothing going for him at 19 years old. He kind of looks around just sort of has a realization, man, this is not a good place to go. I'm not on a good path. Something needs to change. And that was it. It was just a little thought. And boom, he changed. And of course, you know who he is today. It really kind of violated even some of my own perspectives on what makes drive, like how I want to instill this in my kids. But he didn't have any of this. And he's killing it today. So it really took me into the research on drive. I love that. And I have to say, Like I'm a really, really driven person and I have friends and even people that I've dated in the past where I've broken up with boyfriends because I'm like, where's your motivation? Where's your drive? How do you not want to jump out of bed every day and get something accomplished? And so for me, it's really hard to understand people who don't have that innately. But everybody is different, right? Everybody has like a different level of drive. Everybody grew up with different circumstances. And so it's really interesting that you're sort of unpacking this. And I,

I wanted to read a quote from your book that I found that I thought really summed up what I thought was your reason for writing this book. So you said, I was sorely missing the boundaries and peace. How had I been so blind pursuing achievements but not stopping long enough to really consider what I wanted to achieve and why? And not realizing that trying to be limitless is not an achievement but a myth. And so me and you are both really driven people, probably going after thing, after thing, after thing, after thing. Why didn't that actually result in you being happy and feeling truly successful? That's a great question. When we look at that, I mentioned that concept a minute ago.

You being a serial entrepreneur. And I sometimes look at that now and think, it's probably because you didn't really know what the heck you wanted to do. That's where we get serial entrepreneurs. Once I find those, you know, quote, not all of them, but serial entrepreneurs. stop being a serial entrepreneur when they kind of figure out what they want to do and that they stick with something. And quote that I use in the book is from Yogi Berra. The story that was said to have happened, he's driving along with his wife to the baseball Hall of Fame. And she says, you know, Yogi, you're lost. He says, yeah, but we're making great time. That's the other side of drive.

I mean, that's one of the, you know, the one myth that I talk about that's so big is that some people are driven and others are not. I think we all have it in us. It just needs to be triggered. The other one is that drive alone is the big cahuna. And you know that. It just is, I mean, you've seen a lot of people who are really driven and they're driving themselves to hell. And you can drive to places. We know that climbing up the corporate ladder, the ladder success and realizing it was leaning against the wrong building or whatnot. You know, that concept has been around for a long time. But it really is. We applaud people who are driven and we almost expect collateral damage. And we think that that's okay. And yet in their person's life, it's not okay. And so here I was with a lot of things that,

and my values did keep me somewhat in line. I mean, I didn't go way off the scale, but I found, yeah, I'm just going after the next shiny object. And I didn't always consider where am I going towards what and why? And that's why I would do one business and then ended up going somewhere else to the next one. And I was really blown away with myself that as the guy who's thought of as super driven, super disciplined, goal-oriented, and I kind of dawned on me that, man, I've been chasing after a lot of stuff, and I never really considered why. It was just an idea, an opportunity, it was inspiring. I went, and I never really asked why. And again, great achievements that I have had, some that I'm so proud of, but some collateral damage

that I'm not and some wasted time and some hurt relationships and things by not, well, by not doing what I now have in my book. I wish I had read that. I understood. did that a long time ago. Yeah, and I can't wait to unpack that for everyone so that we don't all make the same mistakes, so to speak. So let's talk about your definition of drive. How do you define drive? You know what? There's this book that I know. Let me grab it right here. You ready? I need to memorize this by heart, but I love the perspective. We have it right here on the page, drive, a very strong energy and determination to achieve a goal or satisfy a need. I think that's what we mean when we think a purpose is having that kind of a focal point. And that's what we want.

The other side is where we're at with a lot of culture, which is just apathy. They don't know a purpose. They have a thought about what they want. They look on, I'm going to pick on social media. I know we utilize social media for good, hopefully, but they tend to look at that and take the world's expectations and the culture's expectations and just go towards that. And it's not something that they really want, but don't we all want? We love people who are really driven like that. We love the movie where somebody's going along seemingly, again, not driven. And then that thing happens and they have a purpose. They have a mission. And we love those stories. Then the thought is, well, gosh, wouldn't we like to have that story? We can't. But it's doing an audit. It necessitates

doing an audit to figure out, what do I really want? And then why? And then be an agreement with that. And even there, I think a lot of people think they know what they want, but when you get into the why do you really want that and back it down, well, why do you want money? Well, so I can buy whatever. Why? Well, so I can. And you start drilling down and you'll find people either get real clear on why they really want it or a lot of times they'll get clear on the fact that they don't really want that now that they think about that. That was something their parents wanted or the culture wanted or for some reason they attached themselves. I love that just as much as somebody realizing, oh my gosh, this is what I want.

I also really appreciate somebody looking at something they've been going after and go, oh my gosh, I don't think that I really want that. Oh, now we're growing somewhere. Yeah, very interesting stuff. And something that I found really unique in terms of your book, a perspective that I came across was the fact that drive doesn't always actually have to be positive. Like people who like rob banks actually have drive or commit crimes.

They're sold drugs. It's a totally different type of drive. It's something where we kind of like only think drive is positive, but that's not necessarily true. Yeah, totally. We have, I think some of the most driven people are like addicts, you know, I mean, they'll kill what you want. I mean, seriously, you know, we look at that.

But if we have somebody, we see them, I would say, gosh, they're super driven. But if they're not driving towards something that we as a culture think is a positive thing, we don't give them credit really for being driven. And that's where I see they're totally driven. People who are even sometimes in really bad health are driven by something in them. It's causing that hoarders are driven by something significant. I mean, it's a huge amount of drive. I mean, if we could tap that into something positive, they'd be killing it.

But right now it's going towards something negative, which is why I feel like you drive is, it's always there. People who are doing things even to hurt themselves or, to hurt the culture or other people or whatever. I mean, Hitler was a driven dude. We'll give him that at least. Just not towards something that created life and happiness and joy and peace. But again, I could say that that's part of, has been part of my story sometimes as driving

after things that then just were not a good fit. I didn't really get clear on why I wanted that. And if I had, I would have said, gosh, I'm not even in agreement with that. Why? And I wouldn't have spent those years and that toil. and it's interesting to see people who have that great success, that'd be a great study, and then audit, did it bring them joy? I mean, we say that in a pithy way all the time, but it's just so true.

And I think, man, the years and the time and the toil and the investment and the relationships that all had this, again, collateral damage to going after something that somebody may applaud, but it's not a great story. Yeah, I mean, that's really, really powerful. If you're just driving around and you don't know your destination, you're not really going anywhere, right? So it's important to know where you're going, your purpose, your why. So I'm going to say another quote that I found in your book from Zig Ziglar. And he says, there's no such thing as a lazy person. They're either sick or uninspired. So this is illustrating a myth that you alluded to as

we were just talking where you basically say there's a myth that some people are driven and others are not. And you believe that's a myth that everybody has drive. You just need to sort of figure out how to turn it on, right? So talk us about the story of Ben Hardy. I think this really illustrates everything nicely. I love it because, again, as I said, Holly, it violated my own thoughts at the time on what creates drive, on what we need to do in essence this time, you know, for our kids. So here he's, he's this young kid. So I had him on a show, it's probably been longer than I think. It's probably been three years ago. And he just makes this little statement about, you know, he's in this real religious his parents just explode. Divorce. His mom goes after a crazy business. His dad becomes a drug addict,

literally on meth. And he's just bouncing between homes, totally aimless, barely makes it out of high school, didn't hardly go half the time. And at 19, this is what got me, 19 years old, he's playing video games, World of Warcraft, like 14 hours a day. That's just all he did. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I've got kids over here. I'm trying to groom for success, right? And he has none of this. He has no experience. He has no work ethic. He has no, I was going to say morals. I mean, he just didn't really have any gutter for his life at all, but he simply looks around. And then, and then here's the other thing. It's not something huge didn't happen. He didn't end up in jail. He didn't end up with some big, again, as Donald Miller talks about in his book,

a million miles on a thousand years, in a million miles and a thousand years. He didn't have a big inciting incident. It was a little thought of looking around over a little span of time going, man, this is not going anywhere good. I'm going to end up like my dad or the people he's hanging out with or my buddies who are going nowhere or whatever. And something's got to change. And he grabbed on to just the little lifeline that he had, which was an old youth pastor that they kind of kept in touch and said, I'm kind of looking for something different and got that. He found it within a religious context, church context, but that got him into self-help. And then boom. And he goes. And again, he really, he would have been the one where he got, ah, poor old Ben. You hear somebody's parents talking to

talking about his family. And yeah, that family just exploded or imploded, really. And Ben's just aimless, man. He's got nothing going for. He has no drive at all. It was there. Back to your quote from Zig, he didn't have any inspiration. And once he got a little inspiration to look around going, this isn't a good place, this isn't leading to a good place. And then boom, he's Mr. Driven. And, of course, the story, his was really fast. I mean, his trajectory was relatively fast. And again, it just, it kind of violated all my thoughts and was a great muse. Yeah. So just to give some context to my listeners, Benjamin Hardy, Dr. Benjamin Hardy, I interviewed

him when I first started my podcast. He was on episode number eight, five years ago. And when he came on my podcast at the time, he was like top medium blogger. Me and my co-founder, we were obsessed with him. We read all of his blogs about productivity. Like, he was God to us. Like, we were like, we got Benjamin Hardy on. we were so excited.

And he was such a big name. And I remember talking to him about this story as well on my podcast because I was so shocked. I was like, wait, like four years ago, you were just playing video. Like, you know what I mean? Like it happened so quickly for him. And he turned it around. And I think what you really made clear to me is that there was no big aha moment. There was no moment like where everything crashed or something.

And he was like, it's just like a slow evolution. It was basically a decision he made to become. driven. And it was also made because he didn't want to just be like everybody else around him. He just felt like, well, if I don't want to be like them, I better go the other direction. Yeah, that's why I think the first chapter of the book is, the line I have there is your drive is just a thought away because that's what I saw. And it really came to light also then as I started researching that, that's the reality for the majority of people I've had on the show. You know, 200 plus of these big, you know, influential names, just like you've had.

on your show as well. And it wasn't usually some huge story. It was just they got exposure to something, a little inspiration, and that's the direction that they went. And it didn't always make some incredible story. What they're doing today is a great story. And that's what we look at. But when you start hearing how they got there, it's a lot of little benign, seemingly benign things that wouldn't make a great story, but they add up to where they are today. So it's a great model to look at and say, I mean, we can manufacture, a build our drive, or even just, you know, find a way to trigger it by, like, what you talked about, exposure.

And I think for a lot of people, they probably need to increase their exposure to some things, and they can find that drive. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors. At Yap, we have a super unique company culture. We're all about obsessive excellence. We even call ourselves scrappy hustlers. And I'm really picky when it comes to my employees. My team is growing every day.

We're 60 people all over the world. And when it comes to hiring, I no longer feel overwhelmed by finding that perfect candidate, even though I'm so picky because when it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post noticed. Indeed, sponsor jobs help you stand out and hire fast by boosting your post to the top relevant candidates. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored ones, according to Indeed data worldwide. I'm so glad I found Indeed when I did because hiring is so much easier now.

In fact, in the minute we've been talking, 23 hires were made on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Plus, there's no subscriptions or long-term contracts. You literally just pay for your results. You pay for the people that you hire. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com.com slash profiting. Just go to Indeed.com slash profiting right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.

Indeed.com slash profiting. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, indeed, is all you need. What's up, young and profitors. I remember when I first started Yap, I used to dread missing important calls. I remember I lost a huge potential partnership because the follow-up thread got completely lost in my messy communication system. Well, this year, I'm focused on not missing any opportunities, and that starts with your business communications. A missed call is money and growth out the door. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled QUO, the smarter way to run your business communications. Quo is the number one rated business phone

system on G2 and it works right from an app on your phone or computer. The way Quo works is magic for team alignment. Your whole team can handle calls and text from one shared number and everyone sees the full conversation. It's like having access to a shared email inbox but on a phone. And also Quo's AI can even qualify leads or respond after hours, ensuring your business stays responsive even when you finally logged off. It makes doing business so much easier. Make this thing year where no opportunity and no customer slips away. Try Quo for free plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to Quo.com slash profiting. That's QUO.com slash profiting. Quo. No missed calls, no missed customers. Yeah. Okay, so listen up Young and Profiters. If you feel like you don't

have any drive, me and Kevin are asking you to stop waiting for the stars to align. We're freeing you from that because those stars are likely never to align. It's never going to come. You just need to get started, make a decision to be driven. So speaking in that, let's talk about the gears for being driven. In your book, you outlined five gears, genetics, environment, desires, motives, and beliefs. I'd like to cover all of them. I feel like we'll have enough time. So what role does genetics play when it comes to drive?

More than I really care to admit. It's honest. I mean, I'm so much in the nurture camp. you know, that you make yourself and you, you decide that's how I've always thought. That's how I want to think because that gives me control, more control. And yet again, as I continue to look at that and, you know, my own experience, but then look at other people too and realize, man, our genetics play such a key role in us. And it doesn't dictate us.

Like I talk about in the book, it doesn't dictate what we can or can't do. But it does give us a set point that's going to help us or hurt us. So I had a set point of, well, I had a set point of, and this, you know, genetics, and then it gets into your environment as well. But even genetics, looking back through time, I had, you know, even ancestrally, people who kind of did their own thing, ran their own business, even if it was a farmer or something like that. So if you look at that, how did that program their brain and how they felt about trying things and failure and risk? And we can't necessarily measure and prove that kind of thing. I mean, there's some aspects that we can. But if we can, but if we can,

can look at that, how that came out to where in the womb, I have some genetic set points that are going to help and hurt. So maybe I had some that helped me be an entrepreneur. Of course, if I wanted to be a doctor and have to go to medical school or I wanted to be in the military, I would say they hurt me for that. I'm not real good with following instruction and submitting to things. And so if I had wanted to go those directions, I might have had some genetic set points that would have made it harder. Wouldn't have dictated and kept me out of that, but I would have done well to be aware of that and go, okay, I have some genetic set points that may make it a little harder for me to submit to these things that are needed for this goal over here I want. So it's good to get that on the table.

I'm going to need to take some affirmative action for that. Or on the other side, realize, man, I may have some good set points to help me in this direction, like being an entrepreneur did in my standpoint. So we find that it really does. I mean, there's so, there is a lot of studies about our genetics and even our in utero, you know, time, the things that we that are experienced by the person carrying you and growing you and whatnot and how you come out of the womb, you've got some programming. So as a starting point, genetics, that was one that I really wished

wasn't the reality, but it is. Yeah, I was really surprised to hear that. So then what advice would you give someone who has what they think, genetic disposition to make it difficult for them to have drive? What advice would you give to them? It's one to just get on the table, get aware of it, know what you're working with. And I mean, it could be, you know, I use the example of Mugsy Bokes who played basketball. He was like, what, 5-2 or something like that? I can't remember. And he wants to play basketball. Well, he knows he's going to have to put in a little more work. And so he worked and worked until his vertical jump is like,

I can't remember the numbers. It's in the book. But, you know, twice as much as the other guy who's six, seven foot tall, and he made it work. So to know what you're dealing with and not use it as a cop out, but to know that it's there and you may be disappointed in that. And that's okay too. And have some compassion for that and then say, I can still have a lot of opportunity here. And so I think just getting it on the table, knowing what you got to work with, no different than you would with an employee that you hire and you're going to figure out, okay, what are we dealing with? What are you skilled for, what are you not, and you're going to make it, you know, make it work. We want to get it out on the table. Not having awareness of it, I think often just ends up in disappointment. And we

don't understand. Why is this so hard for me? It's really easy for Hala, but it's really hard for me. And we get irritated about that. And if we can understand, I go, oh, she was well-suited for this. I'm not so much, but I do want to go that direction. So I'm going to have to work harder. And that's not a happy thing necessarily, but I think it helps us equip ourselves accordingly. Yeah, I think this makes a lot of sense. And so in terms of, I'm going to just stick on the genetics piece for a second, just so I can make sure we really understand. Is this like a qualitative thing that we're assessing? Like, we're asking our parents, we're asking our grandparents. Or is this like the way that our brains are sort of composed and like mental health in our family?

Like just trying to understand it a little better. Yeah, for some people who, I mean, my gosh, I've got adopted kids who are going to have a really hard time figuring out. some of their ancestry because it's just, it's almost absent. And so we can do our best to try to assume some things. But for most people, to the best that you can, people are really into genetics these days. We've got 23 and me. What's the other one? Ancestry.com. And it can tell you, you know, you're part this and part that. It's not going to tell you how these people were. But even there, you can look back and see if you are from this country and these people who, for generations, went through these circumstances.

We can assume, and it can be proven to some degree, it's wiring their brain. They were wired to deal with XYZ. I used the story of, we had these runners from Ethiopia, these elite runners, guys in the Olympics and stuff. They'd come to our house for high altitude training. My house is at 9,200 feet above sea level, so they'd come there and do high altitude training

and listening to these guys, and they just, they run. I mean, as a culture, they run. They run, the guys that we had staying with us, they ran like three miles to school. And then at school at recess, what did they do? They ran. And then they didn't provide lunch at the school. So they ran home and got lunch. And then they ran back to school. I mean, that's what they did with no shoes until high school or later. That's what they did. That's what their parents did. So what did that do for not only them physiologically, but psychologically, they were just okay with that. I mean, those things matter. Those things are programming their brains.

we do hand that down, that propensity or that handicap, you could say, as well, depending on what it is. Oh, my gosh. So interesting. So the second gear to drive is our environment. It's what we're exposed to. And I found it interesting in your book that you relate growing up under the guardianship of our parents to wartime brainwashing and mind control. So talk to us about the effects of our environment growing up and how that can impact our drive. I know it's a harsh word, but it just, it resonates, doesn't it? And now, you know, I as a parent

to realize, do I'm brainwashing my kids. I can't not. I cannot expose them to everything. They live at, yeah, 9,200 feet above sea level in a national forest. So they don't know what it's like to live in downtown New York or even a neighborhood. There's pros and cons to that. What I expose them to my beliefs and my value system. I mean, I can't hide it from them. And I don't really want to, but now I'm more aware of, gosh, am I just, am I really impressing it on them? I mean, yeah, back to entrepreneurship, Paula. I had one kid finally tell me at some point, I don't know how old he was at the time, maybe 17, he's like, dad, I know entrepreneurship is the holy grail.

I'm paraphrasing it. It's the holy grail and you make more money, whatever, but I don't feel, right now, I just want somebody to tell me what to do and just go make some money. And I really felt bad that, oh my gosh, I have, because I did. I really held it up as the holy grail. What I like is the freedom and the autonomy and the things that you can create and, you know, monetary opportunity, whatever. But, man, if you can find that, which I found a lot of people in other types of jobs

and professions who adore it, who love it. I mean, so many people who I have on the show are professors and Arthur Brooks, you know, he teaches at Harvard and loves it. And it's not the Holy Grail. But we can't help but somewhat get brainwash our kids and be brainwashed. And there, your listeners, just like with genetics, I mean, get it out on the table. how did your parents, or bring your caregivers, whatever, how did they think? What were the values that they gave? How were they positively driven this way or negatively driven? That, the impact on you is huge. And I think what we, where we go really awry, I did, you can tell me if you did, is, you know, you leave your home and you get out and you think, ah, I'm free. Now it's going to be me. I'm full on holla now, man, I'm done doing. And you're not. You're so programmed. And if we would get that and go, huh, let's do an audit.

What is my programming? What have I grown up with? Why do I think the way that I do or not? And that we often either end up embracing what we were brought up with, whether we agree with it or not, we just kind of go along that way, or we think that we're killing it by rejecting it. Either way, that's just a response to it. And it's not an authentic.

What do I really want? Because I see a lot of people who reject it just out of anger, disappointment, bitterness, or whatever, but they don't really disagree so much, and they go a different direction, and it's not one that's fulfilling because, again, it's just a response that they haven't audited authentically for themselves. Yeah, and this is a good transition to talk about what we authentically desire the third gear. Let's have some story time right now, because I think we have a bunch in common related to this, different stories, but my whole family is doctors. So my dad was a surgeon. Oh, wow. All three of my siblings became doctors. My cousins down

the street. Their dad was a surgeon. All three of them became doctors. I'm the only non-doctor in my immediate family. Really? We're going to talk about that when you're on my show. Yeah. I'm the only non-doctor in my family and I never wanted to be a doctor. And my parents didn't like brainwash us, but everybody grew up around knowing that like if you become a doctor, you're going to be successful. It's a pass and you know, go to school, do this, do that. I was like always the opposite. I know you have something similar with cars and your dad. So I'd love to hear that from you unless you have some thoughts for me. I'll tell you what the point.

And I sit here, can I interview you now? Can we start on my show? Because I want to hear more about that and what that felt like for you as a, I don't know, stumbling block. Was it a pressure, whatever, to go a different route? Because I literally use that, something like that is an example in the book that if you come from a family of doctors, lawyers, whatever, that profession, and you decide I want to be an artist.

And that's a big jump to embrace that different. perspective just as much as the other side. If you grew up a family of artists and go, yeah, I want to be a lawyer. They don't have any context for that. I've got kids right now. I've got one kid who's trying to get a perfect. He's real close to a perfect on his shoot. Is SAT or ACT? One that's like like 1600 is like Jesus. SAT is I think. Okay. He's doing that. I got nothing to give him. I mean, I'm applauding for him. I can't, you know, I can hardly multiply. And so that's, he doesn't have my, well, I was going to say my support. He does have my support. He doesn't have my under understanding. And so again, the power of where we are. And yeah, you mentioned my dad was a car guy.

And so I grew up in the car business and just didn't really question it. Really felt like I liked cars. I used to get car books and get car and driver magazine and thought they were cool. And then later on, after being totally immersed in cars and automobiles, when I started towards my pro cycling career, I finally got an old Subaru wagon that could hold all of our crap and have a big bike rack. And from that point on, a car became just something to get me from A to Z. And today, I drive old trucks. We live up in the mountains and I drive old trucks that carry our trash and we don't have trash service or put my bikes in to go mountain biking or put the kids or put all our camping stuff in or ski stuff. And we just beat the heck out of them. It would be

such a waste to get some kind of a nice car. It just gets me there. But I had to get over, get past that, I literally thought I was a car guy too. And I think, again, the power of where we grow up in our exposure and realizing not only does it push us those directions, but to realize, too, how small and limited it is. I almost grieve that with my kids. I mean, I can't expose them to every, I could spend my life trying to expose them to everything. But at this point, saving grace is just saying, guys, I've brainwashed you, sorry, go know it. And know it. first off, and go and question everything that you've heard from me. Go question it. Go experience things. Go expose yourself to other stuff. And I think we'd all do well to take that

idea on for ourselves. Yeah. And I also think it's important for parents to really let their kids explore and take their own paths and not be so pushy about what's right and wrong. I was really like pushed to do like medicine, law, whatever. And I almost feel like the reason why I'm so successful on top of my field is because I had to be otherwise like I wouldn't have been my family wouldn't have been proud of me or whatever it was you know so it's just funny but let's talk about desires we did tease it out a little bit but why is it important to know what you authentically want versus going down that path why don't you sum it up for us it's just amazing how we we hardly question it and this is similar for me I mean to realize how little I

really questioned it. It just kind of went after. Again, we're talking about how we tend to go after the things that we're exposed to. But even with like the business stuff, you know, I just, I just went after stuff that looked of interest, you know, and it looked like a good idea, good opportunity, and went after it and didn't really question, wait, where's this going to take me? What's this going to look like day to day? I think it's a great example is looking at jobs and we tend to think, you know, what's going to pay, what's my title going to be? Is there any benefits or perks? And that's what we're going to go tell people about. That's what impresses. Nobody asks, so how long's your commute? What's the environment like that you're going to be working with? Who are you going to be working

for, coworkers, boss, or whatnot? And we don't ask the things that 90 days down the road after they've started it, that we find people who, it doesn't matter how much it pays, what their role is, they freaking hate this because of those things, that we never, you know, question it. So to look at where am I going and do I really want that? Or do my parents want that? Do I really want that or do they? You know, somebody else's expectations. We all know that, shoulds and expectations.

But there's so much of it that I think we just take on from the culture. This is what you do. You go, you make, you go to school, you find something that makes a lot of money. You get married. You have kids. And I think, really? Is that? I mean, I did it.

And I'm not regretting it, but I never questioned it too, you know, to look and go, gosh, I've got great friends who don't have kids. And the things that they've gotten to experience that I haven't are great. I mean, I don't devalue that anymore. And then looking at single people and think, what, are they not whole, just being single? Where did we get that idea that you have to? Now, I'm picking on some big things there, but there's so many things down the line that we just embrace culturally that if we would step in. I started doing it in writing the book and looking, it helped me work through some things and clarify, gosh, where am I going?

Do I really want that? What's that going to entail? What's that look like down the road? and to look at what our desires. And I think that not only do we not clarify them, a lot of times we just don't even give them a thought. And somebody said that, maybe you'll remember who it is, that we put more thought, it might have been Zig Zigler, actually. We put more thought into our, you know, annual vacation than we do our overall life goals and our vocational goals, our relationship goals. Yeah, so I think we are falling even further behind, honestly, in, in desire and

understanding our own desire and what we want. I think that's why we see, again, that increase right now that we're seeing in just apathy and lack of purpose. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. Hello, young improfitors. Running my own business has been one of the most rewarding things I've ever done, but I won't lie to you. In those early days of setting it up, I feel like I was jumping on a cliff with no parachute. I'm not really good at that kind of stuff. I'm really good at marketing, sales, growing a business, offers, but I had so many questions. and zero idea where to find the answers when it came to starting an official business. I wish I had known about Northwest Registered Agent back when I was starting Yap Media.

And if you're an entrepreneur, you need to know what Northwest Registered Agent is. They've been helping small business owners launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They literally make life easy for entrepreneurs. They don't just help you form your business. They give you the free tools you need after you form it, like operating agreements and thousands of how-to guides that explain the complicated ends and outs of running. a business. And guys, it can get really complicated, but Northwest Registered Agent just makes it all easy and breaks it down for you. So when you want more for your business, more privacy, more guidance,

more free resources, Northwest Registered Agent is where you should go. Don't wait and protect your privacy, build your brand, and get your complete business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Visit Northwest Registeredagent.com slash Yap free and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at Northwest Registeredagent.com slash Yap free. Happy New Year, Yap, gang. I just love the unique energy of the new year. It's all about fresh starts. And fresh starts not only feel possible, but also feel encouraged. And if you've been thinking about starting a business, this is your sign. There's no better time than right now. 2026 can be the year that you build something that is truly yours, the year where you take control

over your career. And it starts with Shopify. I've built plenty. of my own businesses on Shopify, including my LinkedIn Secrets Masterclass. So it's a two-day workshop. People buy their tickets on Shopify. And then my mastermind subscription is also on Shopify. I built my site quickly in just a couple of days, payments were set up super easily. And none of the technical stuff slowed me down like it usually does because Shopify is just so intuitive. And this choice of using Shopify helped me scale my masterclass to over $500,000 in revenue in our first year. and I'm launching some new podcast courses and can't wait to launch them on Shopify. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in-person, just like the millions of

entrepreneurs that they power. You can build your dream story using hundreds of beautiful templates and set up as fast with built-in AI tools that help you write product descriptions and edit photos. Plus, marketing is built in so you can create email and social campaigns easily. And as you grow, Shopify can scale right along with your business. In 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash profiting. Go to Shopify.com slash profiting. That's Shopify.com slash profiting.

Yap, fam, hear your first. This new year was Shopify by your side. Hello, Yap gang. I know my young and profiting listeners want bigger businesses and a better life. And the new year is the perfect moment to reset and commit to your growth. But let's be real. You can't build an empire if you're finances are all over the place. That's why getting into it QuickBooks is one of the best first moves you can make this year. They've got powerful money management tools built right into their platform and they have them for every stage of your business, whether you're a solopreneur or a small business. And I love that QuickBooks helps you get paid faster, pay bill smarter, and even gives you access to funding when opportunity pops up. So QuickBooks can help

you with bookkeeping, can help you with getting paid, can even help you with projections and understanding where your business is at financially. Plus, QuickBooks Money Solutions reduces manual work by half and keeps your money and your books perfectly synced. That means less time staring at spreadsheets and more time actually building the vision that you started with. That's the upgrade that every profiting entrepreneur needs. Start the New Year's strong, take control of your cash flow with QuickBooks Money tools. Learn more at quickbooks.com slash money. Again, that's quickbooks.com slash money. Terms apply. Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments Incorporated, licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department

of Financial Services. Yeah, that is really, really powerful, Kevin. I'd love to understand gear number four, which is what motivates us. What do we need to know about that gear? That was an interesting because when I first started thinking about the book, it was really thinking about my kids. And I thought, the thing I want most for them is to know what they want. You know, back to this desire.

What do they really want? and clarify that so, because I know that that's what will drive them, but what it started doing was backing me up, as I started doing the research on this, backing me up. Ultimately, too, we got drive. That's a manifestation of, yeah, what you just said of what motivates, what does motivate us and to come down. Really at the bottom is our values, which we don't talk about that. And I probably would have named the book that if it was sexy enough to sell, but people like, drive is a lot more compelling than the word values. But ultimately, that is it. when you look down, it's somebody's value. Again, even if you look at the negative side of addiction or

hoarding or whatever, there's some kind of a value they're trying to fulfill, maybe an unhealthy one, of course. But if we get clear on what we really value, which is at the bottom of that, and that's work that a lot of people don't want to do. And I work to help give ideas and understanding to that throughout the book and to get down to what you value because when you figure that out, then the drive comes pretty naturally. We don't need some rah-rah-re-re bunch of inspiration, you know, motivation even if we're clear on what we value and then we start walking that out. And that's what I saw again time and time again, and you've seen it too with all the guests that I had on my show. The reason they have a book and they're a best-selling author or

podcast or whatever, we'll do this with you on my show, is they got clear on. on a value that they want and they went after that. And they end up on my show because I've seen that they have more success than just in one area. They have success throughout their life. Those are the kind of people I want to talk to. And those are the ones that really looked at what they desire. They looked at why they desire. And they're in agreement with that why. And that's the piece that I see with people who achieve, they achieve it. And they're just thrilled with life. And again, it's not everything in my life. I have achievements that I am proud of and grateful for. I was a burnout, ultimately. And that's what I see. At the end of it, if you're not clear and you're just

driving like mad, and you're not clear on that, you're going to end up generally in burnout, or I'm going to say giving up, which these days is, you know, people looking for early retirement, man. They just want to get out of it. Yeah. Burnout is a real, real big problem. But I do want to stick on this motivation piece and dig deeper a little bit. I understood from your book that it's not really logic that's driving us, it's our emotions. And I think this is really powerful because when you're thinking about what's driving you, what's motivating you, it's really a feeling. And it can be a negative feeling or a positive feeling. So I'd love for you to explain that a bit. Yeah, that's one, again, that I wasn't real thrilled with to look at because, and I don't,

I'm not going to say just as a guy, you know, is also just kind of the persona that I had, I had embraced for myself is there's no room for emotions. I just, all I care about, is where are we going? How do we get there? And you go forward. I mean, as a pro cyclist, man, we're not interested in emotions, just pedal harder. And that works there, but it doesn't work in life. And then to see that the things we go after are so emotion driven. And what brought it to light to me was a personal story of part of my 19 businesses, because I'd start it. It would do well, succeed and go up. And then I had this, I actually had a life plan done for me. And this graph that went up and down and up and down over and over. We started looking at it. And there was an emotion

early in my life. I had gotten involved with some businessmen, not my dad, he's great, but some other businessmen who had some pretty significant moral failings. And it brought me to the point, Hall, I was probably early 20s, and I thought, can you be successful? Now, I'm, you know, a guy, so I was hanging out with guys that can you be a successful businessman and really care for people? it was this struggle that I wasn't super conscious of, but I knew, you know, it was a question that was a little bit there, and I didn't take it captive. And so I went forward kind of disdaining businessmen and the performance of it, the ego of it mainly. So I'm disdaining it even, and I'm fighting in myself. And yet I am going and starting businesses. So I was almost at war

with myself. And how that came out was with money. And I didn't. And so I know, never had financial projections. I'm just going to go out there and serve people. And I ran the business as more like ministries, like nonprofits almost. And I'm just going to prove that I'm all about heart. So back to what you said, it's an emotion that was driving me. And I didn't know it. So here's me saying, of course, we want to make money. And yet over here, I'm kind of saying, no, I don't want to make money. I don't want a claim. I don't want to be on stage. But you kind of have to be if you're going to run a business and do these things. And so I'm at war with myself. And that's where I saw where I find people who I'm going to, I used to call, or I call them aspiring people.

Arthur Brooks in his book Strength to Strength, calls them strivers. And they find success in some certain areas of their life. So they research what does it take. They do it. They achieve success. It's great. And they feel like they're putting the same math towards other areas in their life. And they're not having the results.

And it's so frustrating. It doesn't make sense. and I find bitterness. I experience it, and I see it with a lot of people. And what you find is over here on the positive side, they have something back to desire and motivation. They have something that they want. They know why in their agreement with it, and it's rocking.

And over here, there's something sabotaging it, just like we with money. And I didn't realize it. I didn't audit that and come to grips with, why is this happening? Why do I want money? And what do I feel about money? What's the emotion behind that?

Or even being a business person. and I had this negative emotion that was driving me and I didn't know about it. And that's what I find with most people where there's a disconnect somewhere in their success in an area of life that's not working out. Is there something driving them they're not aware of? And I find it just over and over and over again. Yeah. And it's interesting.

A lot of the points in your book basically are saying like slow down to speed up. You've got to like step back, understand what's actually driving you. What's your actual purpose? where do you actually want to end up instead of just go, go, go, go, go, aimlessly and not realizing what's actually driving you to take all this action in the first place?

Initially, the first manuscript of the book, I used the word saboteurs a lot. It didn't work out ultimately in the book, but it was sabotage ourselves when we don't know what's driving it. And I call them these hidden drivers. We have these hidden drives because we're not aware of the emotions.

and we're just, yeah, we're in a culture that doesn't, that we don't value emotions culturally. We value achievements and success. We don't really care about the emotions or the collateral damage. And yet at the end of the day, that's what matters to us individually. And so if we get clear on what are the emotions driving us, which is why my therapist prescribed Brunee book's latest, Brenet Brown's latest book, Atlas of the Heart, you know, there are 87 emotions that I find myself going back to to go, okay, let me figure this out, I'm trying to get clarity on why am I doing this?

Why am I feeling this? What's driving me? So, yeah, there's a good companion book. Yeah, and I saw that Bray Brown rejected you for your podcast. Same here. So let's have a competition. Who can get Bray Brown first? That's fair.

I keep, you know, I have somebody on the show and go, ooh, that person's connected with Brne. Can I get her on? I'm a fan. I've asked people before and they're like, she's really busy. And I'm like, come on. I mean, how busy is she? Getting her on.

and the other person that didn't necessarily, I can't say they rejected me, but they never followed through with a yes, was James Clear with atomic habits. Well, big, both big guess. All right, so the last year here is beliefs. How do beliefs determine our drive? Yeah, that one really encompasses all that we've just talked about

with our genetics and upbringing and whatnot. That at the end of the day, when we do have values, whether we're aware of them or not, and they form our beliefs. And so often we're not, we're not even in agreement with our own beliefs. I had Andy Norman on the show.

His book is Mental Immunity. I actually heard him on Jordan Harbinger's show and liked him so much. I got Jordan to connect me with Andy and to get him on my show because I had more questions I wanted to ask him. And he talks about our beliefs that so often we just attach ourselves to them

for not authentic, you know, reasons that we're aware of them and we really break it down. It's in question, do we really believe that? But we have these beliefs and these days you're supposed to be, you're supposed to have an opinion on everything and a staunch belief on everything, which is impossible. And those make up so much of our drive. So when we get, a lot of my book goes through, I really try to make an effort on kind of giving people permission to question their belief and to be,

confident enough to question, just like you, of having to come to the point of going, okay, all my family's doctors, literally. And I don't want to go that direction. And you're going to have to question your beliefs around, you know, the culture that they, that you grew up in and how that, and what you were exposed to and could have been impressed upon you and to question our beliefs. And we're not in a culture that does that a whole lot. If anything, we go on the other side and we just plant our feet and on our beliefs no matter what. And as Andy Norman helped me understand. It's so often because it's attached to our self-image. It's not one that we, if we're confident, more confident we are, the more willing we are to set our beliefs out and have them

questioned by others and by ourselves. That was big for me. I mean, I grew up in a, gosh, I don't want to this isn't my family, but even the culture I lived in in the South, you know, with religion was very black and white, very certain. And these days, I'm a lot less certain at my age today than I was 30 years ago on things and questioning, yeah, my beliefs and realizing that those drove me to some unhealthy places when I wasn't willing to question my beliefs and unpack them. So I'm trying to get people to do that. You bring up a lot of good points. Like the point about beliefs that your parents gave you when you were growing up, beliefs

that you once had and like having to have an identity shift basically, it's really hard to have an identity shift to be somebody who's really really. strongly believed in something, then all of a sudden change your mind, but you are allowed to change your mind. You just, you nailed it there, honestly, how yeah, to shift your identity. Man, that's just, I don't think anybody wants to do that at face value. It sounds terrible. I think it's terrifying for most people, and I can tap into that. And yet, over time now, as I've allowed myself, it's so freeing as well. And it's, it's, I was amazed at how I had imprisoned myself voluntarily, by things I thought I really believed in.

And then to realize, I've imprisoned myself, you know, with us. It's not a call to be wishy-wash. I mean, we do like to know what's best. I mean, gosh, you're like in, you know, health and wellness. I'm always searching for, okay, what's the best methodology, the best food, the best supplements, the best whatever. Of course, the answer is, well, it kind of depends on you and your personal makeup, just like this. Your drive is so unique. That's why, you know, what drives you as the book title doesn't have a period or an exclamation point.

I can't make the statement of what drives you, but it is somewhat of a question. There are some statements I will make to say this is what tends to make up good and healthy drive. You've got to figure that out, though. And, man, as you said, to be able to step back, give your identity a little bit of a break, set it on the table and question it. It's terrifying. And I would say it's also beautiful. Yeah, one of the most important things that you can do as you grow as an individual.

So another cool concept from your book that I want to talk about is this idea of purpose zones and relationship zones. And so you basically drew inspiration from blue zones, which is the nine different places in the world where people live the longest. We've talked about blue zones on our podcast a lot. I'd love to understand from you what is the concept of these purpose zones and relationship zones. Yeah, that, I mean, Dan Bootner's book on blue zones was monumental to me to, to, to come down and go into all these areas and look for the healthiest people, ultimately, the longest living, but also the best quality. And to boil, and to see it violate so many things that we, especially in America,

would say you should or shouldn't do. And over here, man, they're eating lard and drinking wine or, you know, whatever it may be, and outliving us and outperforming us in all these ways. And for him to come down, it's not fair to say it's the foundational point of his book, but so much of it, it's the culture they live in, that they don't have to try to do these things. They don't have to try. And I realize that in my own life. The privilege of being in the environment that I am, even I'm here in my studio that I share with my best friend and business partner who's a doc, it's a functional medicine clinic. And everybody in here on any given day,

you know, so-and-so's fasting or we sit out on the deck to eat and it's leftovers from last night's dinner. It's mostly vegetables, grass-fed beef. And during lunch, this guy's going mountain biking, this girl's going for a run or whatever. It's just the culture. How easy is it to be healthy and well in that? And how hard is that if you're in the opposite and you're ridiculed for being a health nut while everybody else is having pizza and donuts and those environment, back to environment is so important. And again, this isn't rocket science. This isn't anything new. I mean, Jim Rohn is the most famous guy in the world for saying you're the sum of the five people you hang around most. And that's so powerful. And so as we

question, as you said, our identity and our beliefs and what we want to do, the hardest thing to do like you with your doctor family is to break away from some of those things. But the thing that's most beneficial is to how great for you if at that point you could have joined your own network. Yeah. And being with people who are of that same mindset, which is why we see the incredible success of companies like Weight Watchers, because it's a culture. It's a community. It's not just a plan, it's a community, you know, or CrossFit or AA. I mean, they're incredible because you're with people on the same journey who relate to you, who you connect with and it becomes, it's mind-blowing how much easier things can be. I mean, I met you at, what was it, Podfest? Yeah. And you're there

with all these, you know, podcasters doing what you do and there's always going to be somebody doing better. And to see that and becomes so much more palatable and normalized. And the power of that is just, it's really gotten me. I'm curious what you think about this because I still play with the concept of going against the flow. You know, that's what we talk about. You go out there, do your own thing and go against the flow. And ultimately, that sucks. And nobody wants to do that. Lonely, yeah. Yeah, it's lonely and it's hurtful and whatever. And what I found, what came to me, really in writing the book is I thought, wait, that's not really what I've done. I haven't gone against the flow. I've just gone and found a flow that fits. I want to go with the flow.

We all want to belong back to what you brought up with Dan Butner in the blue zones and go find a zone that fits you. And then you don't have to go with the flow. You can go against the flow that you're in. Go with that flow. And it's a big concept that I continue to come back to. It is really interesting. That's why I called it up. So one of our last questions, going back to the quote we mentioned earlier, there's no such thing as a lazy person.

They're either sick or uninspired. So I think we really tackled the uninspired part, but a lot of people are actually sick. And you say that there's an epidemic of the disease of despair. Can you break down what you mean by that? Yeah, it literally is. So if you look at chronic illness and disease today, I mean, you can go, anybody can search for this right now. If you look at chronic illness and disease, one of the kind of a new category, you know,

you've got heart disease and diabetes and that is now diseases of despair. I don't know if they say apathy, but, you know, that's, you know, that's contextually apathy, but depression and even on to suicide. And it's one of the, oh, actually a couple of years ago, it was the fastest, I haven't looked at it recently, it was the fastest growing category of chronic illness and disease. And yeah, that is, is mind. In fact, again, right over my shoulder here behind me is Dr. Will Cole's book, gut feelings.

And that's really what he's talking to there is our, you know, our mental health. And of course, he's talking about our kind of our gut as a second brain. If people have heard about that, it's kind of a growing topic that I think people have a hard time conceptualizing, which is why we talked about on the show. But we are in this place where we're getting further and further away, I think from not experiencing life face to face as much. We do it voyeuristically over our screens and whatnot, which is not the same. And we're less and less connected to what we really want. And I think it pulls. us away because we can vicariously kind of jump into somebody else's story on social media, on movies, on Netflix benches or whatever. But to meet, Hala, and you'll appreciate this, it's so telling. We have to be a part of a story. We so want to feel these feelings. And if we're not going to do it ourselves, we're going to do it over here voyeuristically, but it's not our life. And that's despairing. And we see that continuing to grow. And so it's this call to, in a sense, man, to look at your, man, I love a good show. I love a good, a good story or

whatnot. It's nothing against that. But I also want to look at that and go, yeah, what about my story? What am I, what am I living here? Because if I'm just doing it voyeuristically, I depress, that's depressing. That's despairing, having no purpose necessarily. And we're seeing the results of that. Now clinically in the hospitals, you know, we're seeing it clinically, especially in a practice like, hey, with functional medicine. That's what Will Cole is as well. He's a functional medicine practitioner. And they're getting to the root causes, not dealing with the symptoms up here, but the root causes. And more and more, they're coming like he did in his book gut feelings to the philosophy of how we see our lives and ourselves. Back to what you said, our own identity. And when all we have is a connection

to a third-party voyeuristic story. And that doesn't bode well for us. And again, we're seeing the results in the therapy rooms and in the, well, gosh, it's, you know, even in suicide. It's really, really sad. And I think, honestly, it's only going to get worse as technology continues to evolve. I mean, with AI, I can't imagine all the people who are going to lose their jobs and feel helpless. Just in general, I think life is a lot more complicated now. Back in the day, it's like you could have a fulfilling life because there was just less options and also probably a lot less jealousy, right? You do. didn't really see everything going on in the world. So all you had was like your little bubble and

you may have felt happy doing the few things that you would do. Now I feel like there's so much competition and jealousy and you can see everybody, you know, putting on their best lives on social media. Plus, you've got technology that is sort of overwhelming people, I think. And a lot of people just don't even know where to start. So I think your book is really going to be helpful for people to create their own story, like you said, and a story that they believe in and aligns to their purpose and everything like that. It's really important work that you're doing. So, thank you so much. We end the show with two questions. The first one is what is one actionable thing our young improfitors can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?

We're back to the audit, but to sit down and really look at the things. Just take the top things that you think that you want right now. So everybody's going after something. You're going after a business, you're going after an education, you're going after some achievement. And I would say, take that captive right now. And I'm not trying to shoot down anybody's thing too. I want to either strengthen you in it by auditing it, by setting it, like you said, setting it out on the table and being willing to question it. Let some other people question it, find some people, and let them question you on that. Even if you need to pay for somebody, go pay, Holla and your team to consult with you or find a business coach or a therapist or whatever

it may be a mentor or somebody who you trust and let them take you through questioning the whys of that and hopefully come down and maybe strengthen and fuel your drive in where you're going or free you up to realize that's not something you want to do. And I don't care if you're a third, you know, second third year med student who's going after being a doctor and you realize, holy smokes, man, I don't want to do that. And the best thing we can do is get you out of that quick and get you over into a place that has an authentic drive for you instead of you in and up. And I know I, well, like you, I'm surrounded by a lot of doctors. I'm in a medical practice where my studio is right now.

And so many of them who are just churning it out, trying to get to the end, saving their money so they can get out of it. It's pretty daunting. It's really rampant among doctors and lawyers. I was going to say lawyers. I would say about half of the people that have come on my show were once lawyers who did law for like three years were miserable and then followed their passion. Exactly. At one point, it's been a long time ago, at one point, I was understanding that lawyers and pastors were two of the top professions of people going after it for the wrong reasons. So they were going after it and they didn't question why and if it was authentically what they wanted to do.

And back to questioning, what is the lifestyle like? what's the day-to-day look like? What's the environment? What's the roles, the responsibilities? So I would do that. I mean, the greatest thing, go out, you know, look at what your primary objective is right now, what you think you're primarily driven, and just question it and make sure it's authentic. And that's for a lot of you, maybe the majority, it's just going to strengthen your drive, which is going to make you more efficient and effective and going after it. But some of you, again, I know it's, it can be daunting to think about, but it may free you up to say, man, this is not the direction I want to go. And maybe it's just a subtle shift.

Maybe it's a gigantic shift. I don't know. But I'll tell you that a big majority of the 200 plus books behind me of people I've had on the show have similar stories of some big shifts once they realized a direction that they want to go and thank goodness that they did because the masses that aren't on the bookshelves behind me didn't. And they're just trying to churn it out until they don't have to anymore. They can't.

And I would definitely take heed to this advice, young improfitors. You hear a lot of stuff on this podcast. but this is an activity that you can do in probably 30 minutes, and it might set off a direction of your entire, like the entire rest of your life. So the last question I asked my guest is, what is your secret to profiting in life? So coming back down to the values, you know, coming back down to what do I authentically care about? And I think sometimes, Hala, it can be as daunting as what you talked about with identity shift. That's big medicine there. That's a big jump to take and to look and be honest with what you value. Not to pick on marriage or parenting. I'm at the

top of that. I've been married 30 years and I got nine kids, you know, but why do we all think that that's what you're supposed to do or that you're supposed to go this route with education or with business or whatever? We have so many shoulds that we live under that are not serving us well because we don't authentically value them. And on the other side of values is being unaware, like what we talked about a minute ago back to realizing that there's a value. It's a legit value. I mean, I still today care about people thinking I care about them, that I'm more about caring for them and I'm more about heart than I am, my own ego and my own success. I still care about that. But now that I realize that I can take that and insert it into my business and also say now, but it's okay to make

money. It's actually pretty good. Actually making money, and I had my paradigm shifted, actually making money helps me do this better. If I'm not making money, I can't do this. So the more money I make, the more I can do. And if I make more than I need, I give it away to people. But it's a, you know, it's a great thing. And I was sabotaging it for so long by not being aware of my values. Again, like as we said before, it's not a sexy term. You know, nobody cares. Nobody's asking on social media. So what do you value? I just want to know what you did, man. And now I'm looking at, though, the people that I revere most are the ones that know their values and they're more about, or there is much about, at least, about being as they are doing.

That's beautiful, Kevin. And where can our listeners learn more about your new book and everything that you do? The book, What Drives You? Of course, you can get that wherever, but the show, self-helpful. So if you're listening to Hollis Show, we have similar guests. I think if you enjoy her show, you'll enjoy self-helpful. And I do a lot of this, too. And can I say this? You can cut this out if you don't like this. But I almost want to speak to everybody out there because I'm sure you got a lot of folks. I know I do too who want to be

podcasters, who want to be authors and whatnot. But it's specifically to pick on podcasters that, I mean, you know my material, you know my book. And I'm really sure I'm sure you hear this as much as I do how often I have somebody on my show who's so impressed. Like, I am impressed with you. Thank you for reading my book because I've been on so many shows already where I realized, do I'm going to be on the show? They never asked for the book. Oh, wow. They didn't even ask. And I'm so surprised.

And I think we have people out there. I think I'm going to make it as a podcast. I'm going to have these big people on my show. And they aren't, they not only haven't, you know, research the book, but it should be something that you care about. I mean, I can hear it in your questions. You read, you read, you know, you looked through my book. You probably didn't read it cover to cover, but you reviewed it, you know, at least.

And you know, the key points of it. And you looked at and go, gosh, that's of interest to me. I want to ask about that question. And I feel that. And that comes across in the spirit. So if you guys are out there wanting to be a podcast. and interview people, man, do the homework like that. Find people you're interested in and like Holla did and know the topic.

And that's why people listen to the show and have a show the size of yours and mine as well. So thank you for your interest. Thanks for having me and for spawning a good conversation. Thank you so much, Kevin. Yeah. And I couldn't agree more. I mean, I remember when I first started podcasting, I would study 20 hours for my interviews. I took it so seriously, especially when I was first starting.

And so it boggles my mind to you when I go on new podcast or stuff and they're like, how do you pronounce your name? And I'm like, why am I on this show? Well, and that's why we have so many shows or so many shows, so many podcasts. And so few successful ones. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, Kevin, such a pleasure to have you on Yap.

Thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me. It's been an honor and a joy. I really enjoyed talking to Kevin Miller about drive and what it does and doesn't mean to be a driven person. I so loved his line. Your drive is just a thought away. Sometimes you just have to get busy living or get busy dying as they say in the Shawshank Redemption. You have to stop waiting for the stars to align or someone else to make the decision for you because in all likelihood that's not going to happen. You need to step back and figure out what motivates you, what your focus is,

and what you want to accomplish. As Kevin puts it, you have to sit down and audit your life. Set it on the table and be willing to question it and test it. and ask your friends and colleagues to help. Then once you've figured that out, that's when you're ready to move forward. After all, there's no point in exploding ahead if you don't know what direction you want to go. I also thought it was really helpful how Kevin broke down drive into five basic components or gears, as he calls them. Those gears are genetics, environment, desires, motives, and beliefs.

First, genetics can play a big part in your drive, but it doesn't dictate what we can or cannot do. You can be five foot three and still play professional basketball like Mugsy Bowie Bowie. did. Environment plays a big part too. Parenting can be a type of brainwashing and it can totally affect what we like and what we're exposed to. This is often helpful, but we have to be ready to question it to experience new things and find what really drives us. That ties into Kevin's third gear, desires. We have to make sure we're driven by our own desires and not somebody else's expectations of us. Our motivations, the fourth gear, is also important. Many of us, Kevin says, are motivated by our values. This can be positive or negative.

addiction or hoarding, for example, can be driven by an underlying value. Often, our motivations are not logical at all. They're emotional. Finally, beliefs can also play a big part in our drive. According to Kevin, the more willing we are to set our beliefs out and then have them questioned by others and ourselves, the better off we are in the long run. One of the central themes in this episode was also that there's no such thing as a lazy person.

As Kevin puts it, it's a myth that some people are driven and others are not. Those that might seem like they have a lack of drive may just be. uninspired or suffering from despair. And sometimes those who seem incredibly driven may be so for the wrong reasons. For further insights into how you can effectively stimulate and harness your own drive, check out Kevin's newly released book,

What Drives You, which is linked in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting Podcast. If you listen, learned, unprofited, share this episode with your friends and family and drop us a five-star review on Apple. If you like watching your podcast videos, you can find us on YouTube,

and you can also find me on Instagram at Yap With Hala, or LinkedIn by searching my name, it's Halitaha. I want to shout out my amazing and hardworking production team. You guys rock. And I also want to shout out all my listeners. I do this for you guys. Thank you so much for tuning into the show day in and day out

and making us a top podcast on Apple. This is your host, Halitaha, aka the podcast princess, signing off.