Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Matteo Franceschetti: The Future of Sleep | E143

Episode Date: November 29, 2021

Did you know that more than 30% of Americans struggle with their sleep? In this episode, we are talking with Matteo Franceschetti, the Co-Founder and CEO of Eight Sleep, the sleep fitness company. Along with his obsession for athletic performance, business performance, and now sleep performance Matteo and his team are the pioneers of sleep fitness technology.  Matteo has always been an athlete with an obsession with recovery and performance. After spending time as a securities lawyer and launching companies in the renewable energy space he rediscovered his passion for optimizing his body’s performance. He realized there was an incredible need for smarter sleep products and this was where the idea for Eight Sleep was born! Their tech enabled mattress, the Pod significantly enhances your sleep quality through thermoregulation. Over the course of the night, the Pod detects your changing body temperature via sensors built into the mattress and sends its data to their app to track all of your vital information. They have recently created their Pod Pro Cover, which adds their patented thermoregulation technology to your existing mattress. While Eight Sleep has already made huge strides in the sleep fitness technology industry, they have only just begun! In today’s episode, we discuss Matteo’s journey to becoming CEO of Eight Sleep and what the future of sleep technology has in store for us. We cover the impact that sleep deprivation has on not only our health but how it has also caused billions of dollars and millions of working hours lost globally. Matteo also gives his insight into the future of sleep and sleep technology. During this conversation, we think outside the box and predict just how the future will change the way we look at sleep.  So relax! And listen to how you can achieve a better night’s sleep!  Sponsored by -  The Jordan Harbinger Show - Check out jordanharbinger.com/start for some episode recommendations Lendtable - Sign up for Lendtable at Lendtable.com with promo code YAP for an extra $50 added to your Lendtable balance Kraken - Visit kraken.com/yap now to learn more or search for "Kraken" in the app store Social Media:  Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Follow Hala on Clubhouse: @halataha Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Mentioned In The Episode: EightSleep - https://www.eightsleep.com/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm your host, Halla Taha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of XFBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhanced in productivity, had to gain influence, the art

of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button, because you'll love it here at Young and Profiting Podcast. This week on YAP, we're chatting with Mateo Friend Shetty. Mateo is the co-founder and CEO of 8Sleep. The Sleep Fitness Company that's pioneering sleep-nearable technology with products like their Smart mattress and Smart mattress cover. Mateo is a longtime athlete who has an obsession for recovery and performance.

While researching the most efficient ways to optimize recovery, he realized that there was an incredible need for smarter sleep products in the market, and there his idea for eighth sleep was born. Mateo's company specializes in sleep technology that helps their users fall asleep and stay asleep for longer. Their flagship product is a mattress cover that can control the temperature of your bed and can even gently vibrate to wake you up. And it even comes with an app that can track your sleep cycle and sleep habits. Their tech is literally the future of sleep. In today's episode, we discussed the impact that sleep deprivation has not only on our health,

but also on our economy. It costs businesses billions of dollars and millions of working hours every single year. We'll then dive into the science behind why getting quality sleep is actually way more important than getting a large quantity of sleep. We'll get clarity around the impact of thermal regulation, our sleep environment, and our quality of sleep, and lastly, we'll step into the future and hear what Mateo thinks sleep will look like 20 years from now. If you're curious about the growing sleep tech industry, how to get involved, and how to better your sleep with new advancements, this episode is for you.

Hey Mateo, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcasts. So excited to have you here. Thank you for having me, so we're excited. Yeah, me too. So we've had lots of introductory episodes on sleep. We had Dr. Daniel Gartemberg, we had Dr. Mita Singh, and in those episodes we really talked about the basics of sleep, how to get better sleep, but in this interview I really want to talk about the

future of sleep, which is such an exciting topic in space, and you are the perfect person to talk about this. You are the CEO of 8th Sleep. It's a really buzzing sleep technology company in the Neurables category, and just really excited to talk to you about all the different aspects of the future of sleep. But before we get started, I did want to talk about your childhood. So it turns out you are from Italy,

and you were really into sports growing up. You were doing go-kart racing, you were skiing, you're playing tennis. You did a lot of different sports. And so I'd love to understand how your background in sports helped to drive you as an entrepreneur later on. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I love sports. I was a ski racer for some time. Then I played tennis for

quite a while and then I started racing with cars and go-cuts. So that was pretty fun. It was key for what we did and what we still do because on one side I have always been in rest and recovery and performance as an athlete so that is how this mindset where we have a tape sleep was formed when I was just a teenager and then if you also look at our branding, the way our branding is designed is around this concept of sleep fitness and we have a lot of athletes as brand ambassadors and that is still because of this passion for sport and energy activity and performance.

Very cool. So I also learned that you were a lawyer when you first started out. You graduated Magna Cum Laude. You have a licensed or practiced law in Italy. You passed the board in Italy. So then what was the transition? Why did you decide to go from lawyer to then sleep technology see what was the path there? Yeah, I was a lawyer for two very large law firms, UK law firms

and I was there for around five years. I was doing securities and IPOs and I mean I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. In Italy it's really hard to become an entrepreneur because it's really hard to raise money. I come from a family of lawyers. And so that was just the most obvious path for me. But then at a certain point in Italy there was this opportunity to start developing solar plants because there was a specific feeding time. So a lot of private activity plants came to Italy, and that was the perfect opportunity to start the business that could be profitable since day one.

I had a lot of expertise in project finance, which was the expertise required. And that is how I became an entrepreneur. I did two companies in solar, and then I started a sleep. It was my first company, Realtech, and the company that probably matches my profile the most the game because of my past as an athlete. That's super cool. What was the genesis of 8th sleep, were you having a sleeping problem yourself, and then that's why you wanted to solve the problem?

How did you think of the idea? Yeah, it was the combination of two things. On one side, it was concept of rest and performance and recovery And so I started looking into sleep and I started wondering why do I have to sleep eight hours? Can I sleep six hours? And so I started reading a bunch of medical Inclinical studies and papers and medicine and I understood that there is no real reason why we sleep eight hours It's just that our that is what it takes for our body more or less to recover, but our body is inefficient. And so I started wondering why Elon Musk is taking

me to Mars with the no rockets, but there is no technology in the third of my life. And that is when I started exploring sleep. And so now our vision is really about two things. One, we want to compress your sleep. So what if you could save only six hours and get more rest than when you were sleeping eight hours? And on the other side, you also want to save your life, which means during that time, there's a matter of six hours, eight hours, what can we do to measure your health and scan your body to the tech to the science of illnesses or to let you know how you can improve your health and performance. It's so interesting when you look at sleep, something like the mattress, up until lately, with companies like 8th sleep, hasn't really been innovated on for hundreds of years. It's like we're

sleeping on the same thing that people slept on 200 years ago. It's kind of ridiculous. It's almost like this area, I feel, is going to be as important to us and as lucrative as things like nutrition and exercise. And sleep is going to be this whole new category that for a long time was really ignored, ignored by scientists and ignored by technologists as well. Would you agree? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, health is based on trippy last, right?

There is nutrition, there is fitness, and there is sleep. But if you zoom in and sleep is really the foundational piece, because if you sleep two hours, there is no fitness, and there is no nutrition, you will start craving junk food, and you will not be able to train. And so sleep is really the first step. And that is why we came up with this definition and concept of sleep fitness.

And so sleep fitness means that going to bed is not like wasting time, but it actually should be considered in the same way of how you use your time when you go to the gym. You are investing your time, you are putting the effort to go and do something good for your body and your health. The same is sleep, right? It is a tower which is substantially the equivalent of a flight from the East Coast to Europe. So it's a pretty long flight that you do every single night. And that is time that you invest in your health. And so don't sacrifice that because that time will be used by your body to recover, regenerate,

and make sure that in the morning you have full power and energy. I love that sleep fitness. That's a new term that we haven't really heard. And we've learned another podcast that really famous athletes like LeBron James. He'll sleep 10 to 12 hours when he's in training season because he knows that sleep is so important to ultimate performance. Before we get into some of the problems that a lack of sleep cause, I do want to talk

about some of the awards that eight sleep has won, and I wanna understand what makes your company so innovative. So from my understanding in the past few years, you guys have received the best invention award from Time Magazine, the Fitness Award by GQ, and the Sleep Award by Men's Health. That is absolutely incredible. Those are amazing awards to have achieved.

So what makes your product so innovative and new in the space? What is it that you guys do exactly? Yeah, we do have a lot of things. So on one side, we change your body temperature during the night. So there's plenty of medical evidence there by changing your body temperature. We can improve your sleep performance. So you will fall asleep faster. You will get more deep sleep, more RAM, less weight taps, and less dust and turns. So your sleep efficiency will be way higher.

At the same time, we track everything about your health, meaning there are sensors embedded in our device that can measure your heart rate, your respiration, and your sleep. We sell two products. They have the same technology, different from factor one is a cover that can be installed on 20 mattress, so you can retrofit your current down the mattress without a technology or you can buy our whole smart mattress. One starts at 1500, the other starts at 2500, the technology is the same, just a matter of you want to change or not your bed. And so because of these two features and I think now also so many people are raving about the product publicly, it's earned more than thousand and thousands of people loving the product, that is how we got the awards.

Amazing. And I just got a new eight sleep mattress and pro pad cover and I am psyched because I've had insomnia in the past. So I can't wait to talk about the results on the podcast and let everybody know how it went. So let's talk about the seriousness of sleep loss and all of its effects. So in past podcasts, we've discussed how lack of sleep can cause mood changes. It can cause depression.

It can cause Alzheimer's. It can cause heart disease. It literally is the root cause of so many different diseases, but there's also some major economic factors that sleep can impact when it comes to the workplace. So for example, $680 billion a year is lost to sleep deprivation globally. And 10 million working hours are lost in the US due to sleep

related absences. And I can attest to this when I used to work at Disney streaming services. When I would call it sick, most of the time, it was because I had insomnia and I was like, I can't go to work today. I had insomnia all night and I would just call out sick, but really it was insomnia,

but nobody talks about these sleep problems. It's like, almost like you feel embarrassed so you don't say it was insomnia. You just pretend you have a cold, right? So I can attest to the fact that there's lots of people who are calling out of work because they have insomnia. And to combat these issues, what's exciting is that the sleep technology sector is due to triple by 2026. It's going from 11 billion in 2019 to 32 billion in 2026. Huge opportunity. So I want to dig into that before I do

what are your thoughts on the impacts on the economy and the potential for growth here? Yeah, and I think it's connected to something you were saying earlier, right? For 2000 years, nothing changed. I think there was a first small revolution four or five years ago where just the purchase experience was changed, or now with D2C brands selling the right-wing online.

But at the end of the day nothing was changed in terms of sleep quality. But I think the next wave of sleep disruption is what is happening now, where finally technology is really enhancing our sleep performance. And at the end of the day sleep is the greatest hack to improve your health and to improve your daily performance, right? If you wake up fully refreshed, first you are a healthier person, right? By definition, because of all the potential negative consequences you just mentioned, but on the other side you will crave less junk food. So there's plenty of medical evidence. There's a risk of correlation between the type of food

that you crave and the deprivation. And second, as you have more energy, you will be more inclined to then train and take care of your body during the day. So it's really a circle where the three things are connected, but everything's stopped in the morning and the morning is based on the night. It sounds like a keystone habit.

This is something that Charles Doohig talks about that basically says when you form it's a habit that basically sets off a domino effect for many other healthy habits. So it sounds like getting better sleep could be a keystone habit, which is super interesting. The next thing I wanna talk about is the opportunity for jobs and careers in this space.

So you are somebody who doesn't, as far as my knowledge, you don't have a technology background. You don't have a science background. You don't even have a business background, but you had a passion and you decided to become an entrepreneur in this space. So let's pause there and just talk about, how can somebody who doesn't have a background in an area

then become an entrepreneur of a very successful company? Because I've seen a lot of people do this. It's more of like a personality thing. So talk to us about how you became an entrepreneur for something that you didn't have a background with and what you did, like the steps that you did to accomplish that. Yeah, it's a very question. There are really two factors.

I think the first is personality. I think you have to learn not to be an entrepreneur, you need to have a certain personality, you need to have a biased reaction, you need to have the ability to go through a lot of pain, if you will, right things will not always work out as you plan and so you need to be resourceful. And the second factor which is connected to the lack of experience is plenty of evidence that many times the lack of experience can become an advantage. Because when you lack experience, you challenge the status quo. You make questions, right?

And an example is when I start the question, why do we have to sleep eight hours? Maybe if I would have studied sleep all my life, I would have given that for granted. While is that in my case coming from a completely different dimension and world, is it why? Let me look into that and let me challenge that assumption. And so then obviously once you start your challenge, you're going to assumption you need to dig deep, so you need to be curious and you still need to go back to first principle, physics, or physiology, whatever. But you look at everything from a different

left. I love that. I think that's a really great point. So talk to us about the different careers that are involved in the space. What are the skills that you think people who want to get into the sleep technology space should have? What are the different opportunities out there for people? Look, at the end of the day, you just need to be curious. Even when I looked at my team, I would say the probability percent of my team

is doing something different from what they studied at college, right? I'm an amazing growth people, they didn't study growth, and they, to say, doesn't even exist at college, but they were curious, they were passionate about the topic, and then they figured they out. So my advice is, as long as you're passionate about something and you're resourceful, as a resplendent of opportunity,

in particular, right now the economy in tech is really good. Right? So every company is trying to hire smart people. So you just need to cut through the noise and prove that I always call it greatness. Right? When I talk to people, I always look for greatness. And doesn't matter if it was whatever it was in sport or if it was now in a non-professional environment. Just

prove me that you are unique in the world. If you have that uniqueness, I'm sure that you will have it also at the age of sleep. So I want to talk about the science of sleep and get into things like REM sleep and thermal regulation and thermal neutrality and some of these words that probably a lot of my listeners know nothing about and I want to unpack that for everyone. So let's start with REM sleep. So REM means rapid eye movement and there are five stages of sleep and you can categorize

them in non-repet eye movement and rapid eye movement from my understanding. You're the experts here. Let me know if I'm wrong. Could you first help us understand what the difference is between non-rapid eye movement sleep and rapid eye movement sleep? The difference between N-REM and REM. The REM is the part where we're oversimplified. I always had to use the grandma who was try to explain the thing to your grandma and

And safely come to success, but the RAM is substantially when you dream and Is the moment where your brain is reorganizing all the information from the day and usually that there is you work on 60 to 90 min cycles for sleep and there is a prevalence of certain phases or stages based on the part of the night. So usually you tend to have more RAM in the second part of the night, right? The first part of the night is that you tend to have no RAM, no RAM includes what is usually called DICK sleep. And this leap is when your body is more recovering physically.

The difference between the two is usually in a grand phase, your body doesn't move. So your brain deactivates any body control because you have dreaming. And so otherwise you would move and you know like if you were now in live in the dream. And so your body is standing still, but your heart rate is still very accelerated because you're leaving an experience in your own brain and in the dream. Well instead in deep sleep it's completely different, your heart rate is really slow, your body is just slowing down to recover physically regenerate cells and cleanup cells and so on. So interesting, so when you're tossing and turning, you're not in REM at all. Yeah, there is no way. In REM, you're standing still, whatever is your position, you're not moving at all,

but your heart rate is still accelerated because you are leaving and you have 12 experience. And then is there a certain amount of REM sleep that we should be getting every single night? Yeah, I would advise one person to person, how tell you are, but usually you would say minimum 15 to 18% after 25% that is the range, usually the optimum range is 20 to 25% and would you say that there's benefits to increasing the amount of REM sleep that you get every night is the goal to get more REM sleep or does that not really matter? The goal is really to increase your REM and you sleep both of them. They cover a different function. One is more focus on regenerating if you will your brain, the other one to regenerate

your body after a day of work, physical work and mental work. So those are the two most important factors. Everything else to me is just almost a subsidiary or just something that is there because the body is inefficient and that is a transition for the body in between these two phases. So when you look at light sleep and all the other non-gramed phases different from deep sleep, that's to me is just an inefficiency that is part of our bodies. Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea but you don't know how to move forward with it? Going into debt for a four-year degree isn't the only path to success. Instead, learn everything you need to know about running a business for free

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something that 8th sleep is like super known for busily pioneering is thermal regulation and I want to understand first of all what thermo regulation and thermo neutrality is. It's a great topic so your your body temperature changes during the night. So when you hear people say, oh, you should sleep at 68 degrees, that just falls. It's not true. It might be a ride for an hour during the night. But because your body temperature changes during the night, temperature should change accordingly. So what we do is we are not reinventing the wheel.

We just help your body to change its own temperature during the night to maximize the different sleep stages. And so in the first part of the night in particular during deep sleep we try to pull you as much as possible, right, because there is medical evidence that the echoed environment in deep sleep will maximize your deep sleep. Well, instead in RAM you need what is called thermal neutrality. So you need to be in an environment that is not cold and is not hot. And the reason is pretty basic. Your brain is deactivating certain function of the body, right, during the time. One of the functions that it deactivates is temperature

control of your body. So if it's too hot or it's too cold, the brain will feel that you could die with temperature deactivated in the right body temperature deactivated. And so you will not let you fall into RAM. And so part of what our machine learning models and AI models are trying to achieve is this thermal neutrality. So your brain will feel that your body is in a safe condition and will maximize your RAM phase. This really is like the future of sleep. So I run really cold all the time, right?

I feel that compared to the average person or my partner's when I'm sleeping, I'm always cold and like, you know, they're hot. So how does that work? Like, does everybody have a different body temperature that they need to fall asleep? Like for example, I love to like always sleep in a sweatshirt and most people would like hate that. Yeah. So 50% of the couples, they have different temperature preferences. So what is happening to you and your partner happens to 50% of the couples. And the reason is, this is another important thing. Sleep needs to be personalized. Everyone is different, right? This is a different based on age, based on gender, based on metabolism, different factors, right?

For women, it's also different before and after menopause, for example, right? Because in menopause, you will have very likely hot flashes. And so that is another problem that we solved. So your partner can sleep in a very cold environment. You can sleep in a warm environment. You don't need to wear a sweatshirt, but you will still feel comfortable and cozy. Okay, so something that I want my listeners to really understand is the experience of smart mattresses because I think that this is really innovative and I think this is really where the future of sleep is going. So walk us through what it's like to use a smart mattress. What are some of the things that you would do differently when you go to sleep as opposed to

just sleeping on a traditional mattress? So the beauty of these, as first you don't have to change anything, you don't have to change habits, right? Just go to bad as you did last night. The difference is the matter as the bad or the cover, right? Because again, we sell a cover, the character of it, your mattress or the whole mattress. But whatever you pick, technology is the same. So you go to bad and the bad is ready for you. So there is a temperature of setting that you love, doesn't matter if it's cold or warm, it can be anywhere between 55 degrees and 110 degrees. So I'm really cold, really hot. Then as you fall asleep, the temperature will keep changing during the night to maximize your sleep performance. So, you will always feel that the temperature is really comfortable, but at the same time, optimize for your sleep. Then, before waking up,

one of the features we have that people love is the vibration. So we can wake you up with a soft vibration. So there is no sound, I always hate sound alarms, not it just go off and the worst time when you're in deep sleep. So this vibration will wake you up gently. And then once you get out of bed, you can see all your stats. And the stats are not only about sleep, there is not how many hours you slept and percentage of deep and brand. They're even more important that are a lot of stats about your heart rate. And the reason why that is important is your heart rate stats are indicative of how much you recover. In particular HRV, which is heart rate variability and HR they are both indicative of how rested you are. So you will have a food picture of how rest of you are in the morning that you can combine

with how you feel. So how about other nearables? So we're talking about nearable technology right now, which are physical things that are around us from my understanding that can help us improve our sleep in this case. So mattress is one thing, then I could imagine that like lights are another nearable technology that people can work on and even like humidifiers. So can you talk to us about some of the opportunities in the nearable space and maybe some things that you're thinking about at eight sleep? I would say what we already do is there are another couple of ways.

You can improve your sleep. One is by again controlling the environment, as you were just saying. So in the near future, you will see us controlling temperature, light, noise, humidity, and maybe even other factors that I cannot disclose now. But you will sleep in an environment that is fully optimized based on your needs. Again, it's really personalized. And that is one.

The other thing that we do, and I didn't mention earlier, we also provide you with insights. So we have data about your day that we can have access to through Apple Health or any other wearable that you wear. And our machine learning and data science model, they will look at when you sleep the best. So I give an example, for example, it might be that if you train in the morning, you get more deep sleep than when you train in the afternoon or in the evening. Or there is plenty of medical evidence

that alcohol and caffeine, they have a major impact on your sleep quality. And so we might be able to tell you, look all the times that you have alcohol. Your sleep quality decreases by 20%. And so there is a sort of digital coaching function that we tell you what works well and what doesn't for you to maximise sleep performance.

So how does humidity impact our sleep? I know I mentioned this before. I think we've heard a lot about how light impacts our circuiting rhythm and things like that, but something that we haven't talked about on the show yet is humidity and what role that plays. We have sensors for that and we'll double down on this type of sensors.

There are some studies that talk about air quality and the impact it has on your sleep. Humidity has an impact. More than anything, it has an impact on your respiration because it fits to dry than that would impact part of your respiration and the other thing is also with impact your skin. Because again, if you go back to the first principle that you're spending eight hours there, more or less, right, it could be slightly less, but again, it's like a flight, an intercontinental flight. So you know how long that flight is. You spend in that amount of time

every single day in this environment and if this environment is too dry or too humid, it will have a negative impact on sleep quality. I love how you keep making the analogy to a flight because it's so true. It's like you go to sleep, you're under this whole new world and you need to make sure that you're in a comfortable, like you're in a, it's like being in an airplane for that long, you want to make sure that you're comfortable and then it's efficient. Such a good analogy. So let's talk about sleep positions because this is something that I feel like people don't know what to do. It's like, should we sleep on our side? Should we sleep on our back? Should we sleep on our stomach? What in your opinion is the right way to sleep? because it seems like there's so much good

and bad with each one, and it's really hard to know what you should do or if you should switch it up. Yes, very question. It's really not one single answer, meaning it's very personal. Then, what we have noticed is based on the side, there could be an impact on your equality, and it seems that the reason is connected to digestion. So there are certain positions that help your digestion, so it depends when you know how, when you had the last meal.

And then there is also correlation between position and respiration, right? So for example, if you have ziplopnia, certain positions like being faced down is pretty bad for you. There are position like face up that could help with that. Sometimes you could even sleep in climb a little bit. There are also some early studies about actually sleeping in climb and try that. So my bed was in climb, the whole bed. And the theory would be that that would help for your toxins to move towards the bottom of the body and towards the feet.

But the bottom line is really a preference. So for example, I'm a slight sleeper and I keep tossing and turning. I don't turn around too, which is not good. And if you have sleep apnea or any problem with respiration, you should try to sleep face up. Something that I've personally struggled with is neck pain. And I feel like as everybody is always looking down at their phones and looking at their computer, I feel like neck pain is something that's really becoming sort of like its own pandemic, especially with people under like 50 years old. I feel like everybody has neck pain that I talk to. So what is your thoughts on that? Is there certain ways that we should sleep to prevent neck

pain? Is there certain things that we can do to prevent neck pain when we're sleeping? I mean, I think the best thing you could do is you can't go to sleep without a pillow. Without a pillow. Yeah, that would be the optimal. And we also have some early date about that. The problem is if you are a person who flips a lot and you sleep on the side, you will need a pillow. So you can take without a pillow if you just sleep face up. But that would be the optimum. Otherwise, if you still have, if you need to keep the pillow, then you need to play with the pillow itself and try to see what is the best option.

If it's something softer in different materials, if you want form or if you want gel or latex. Here's that sound, young and profitors. You should know that sound by now, but in case you don't, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that's revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you sell edgy t-shirts or offer an educational course like me, Shopify simplifies Mildness, and Fully-created Fully-created Fully-created

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and an extremely talented marketer. She's the owner of NotOne, but six thriving companies, and now she's ready to share her knowledge and experience with you on the Kelly Roach show. Kelly is an inspirational entrepreneur, and I highly respect her. She's been a guest on YAP. She was a former social client. She's a podcast client, and I remember when she came on Young and profiting and she talked about her conviction marketing framework It was like mind blowing to me. I remember immediately Implementing what she taught me in the interview in my company and the marketing efforts that we were doing and as a marketer I really really respect all Kelly has done all Kelly has built in the corporate world Kelly secured seven promotions in just eight years

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of sleep. We've been like drilled in our heads that it's you know, 68 hours, 68 hours, but in reality it could be less if we get deeper, better sleep, right? So I actually came across the study and it's from late October, from researchers from the Washington University School of Medicine. They released a study that says the optimal sleep duration might be closer to 4.5 and 6.5 hours every night. I actually had Dave Asprey on the show earlier this week. And he mentioned the same, he mentioned the study in the interview, and he's a proponent for about like six hours. He thinks anything more is actually worse for you.

So what is your opinion about how that age old like six to eight, seven to nine hours of sleep is going to hold up in the next decade. What I think is your body needs a certain that amount of REM and deep sleep. Everything else is just your body being inefficient and so technology can help with that. And so my theory is substantially the amount of deep and REM that you need is equivalent to around four hours, right? And right now we need eight because there is extra four hours of inefficiency, and we can try to contrast that through technology, different types of technologies. So I think the best shot we have is probably to get into the four hours. I think that would be really perfection. I think if we could just make six hours

and wake up being fully refreshed without hurting our health, our health span, our lives span, it would be pretty awesome, right? Because for some people, they would gain two hours every day, they'd go on like me that they sleep more than six hours. For others, maybe they are already sleeping six hours, but right now they don't feel great

when they wake up in the morning and they always feel grow again tired. At that point, we will just regenerate that. Very, very interesting stuff. So one of my last questions to you as we begin to wrap up this interview is the data that's gonna be accumulated from all this information. So as all these new technology products come out, we're going to start to collect data

from millions, if not billions of people, about their sleep patterns. So what do you think is going to happen in terms of the impact on humanity when we know all of this data about people's sleep? Yeah, things will change dramatically because I think one of the biggest bottlenecks that science and medicine had in the past was it was really hard to track the sleep of people, right? Because you have to go to your sleep clinic. They have to put their polysomographs feeling basile and not sleeping in your bedroom. So it doesn't really count, it doesn't count much. And so if you look historically, most of the sleep studies were run on somewhere

between 20 and 100 people. Now, probably it's like a sleep. We have several, several thousands of people sleeping on our devices every single night. And so in one night we collect, I don't know, five, six, seven terabytes of health data about people. And the reason why this will become relevant is because in this way, you can finally start seeing patterns. I don't think we know enough about sleep yet, because there was not a volume of data that was big enough. And that is what will completely change. It's already changing and will completely change in the next few years.

Yeah, I think that's going to be really exciting. Once we have all this Yeah, I think that's gonna be really exciting once we have all this data. I imagine that, especially if people start to also correlate their health problems with their sleep, like if there's a way to kind of map those two things together and start to understand like, oh, well, this person only sleeps five hours and all these different diseases happen to them.

And maybe there's correlations that people can make about your sleep and how it impacts your health and the diseases that you get. The key will be to first accumulate enough sleep data, then the step to you will be to start developing these correlations between your fitness, your nutrition and your sleep. And based on that, we will be able also to predict the future of your health. I think the future for it's sleep is not even to detect potential illnesses once they have already occurred. But to be able to come back to you and say, based on your life and your biometrics, if you continue in this direction, you might have a 60% chances

to develop this illness in the next three years. And that will be based on patterns because you have already seen customers developing that. So that is how healthy a really change in will be disrupted, where we will not to wait until when we have a disease to discover that we have it, but to see an increase in probabilities to develop that disease years in advance. So you can change your lifestyle and avoid that problem. So as we wrap up, I do wanna ask you

to really think outside the box on this one when it comes to sleep. Where do you see sleep in 20 years? So beyond, like not just with eight sleep, just sleep as a sleep in 20 years? So beyond, like, not just with eight sleep, just sleep as a category in 20 years. How do you imagine things will be like, are we going to have chips in our brains that stimulate us to go into REM sleep? Are we going to have chemicals that get released in our body like melatonin when we want to go to sleep? Like,

what do you think is going to happen in 20 years? Yeah, I think all those things will happen. I think let's start from the outcome. The outcome will be that you can be able to sleep on the six hours and we have fully refreshed. And so I'm going to bed. It will be more valuable than going to your doctor because devices like eight sleep will scan your body, imagine a sort of MRI 3.0. And so every morning, you will have the full picture of your health. This will happen mainly contactless, so I don't think you will have to wear anything. Technology is getting there. So you will feel great, a lot of energy, and you will have a full ownership and knowledge of your health.

And the last question I ask all my guests is, what is your secret to profiting in life? Probably never giving up, so I just keep going and that just push me forward. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do? Yeah, you can go on aitslip.com, aitslip.com, aitslip.com, just in letter, e-i-g-h-d-s-lip.com, and they're also on the homepage, so you can connect with me on Twitter. Amazing. Thank you so much, Mateo. This was such an awesome conversation.

What a great conversation with Mateo. I've had so many amazing interviews on the show about sleep, but this was the first time I had the chance to talk about what's in store for us in the future. Sleep is now an important part of my life, but it really always hasn't been that way. Back when I started YAP, I was working a full-time job, and that left me little time to think

about anything else, especially sleep. I would just be working 18 hours a day, I would work out, I would eat dinner, and that left me with like four hours to sleep literally every night. And having that habit led to terrible episodes of Insomnia. And even when I tried to get a good night's sleep, maybe I had a big presentation the next day, or as an interview and I really just wanted to be well-rested, I could never fall asleep. I tried everything. I tried melatonin. I tried, you know, reducing my anxiety and meditating and all these different things. But nothing seemed to work. And I was literally

driving myself crazy. I even went to my best friend's wedding on no sleep. And back when I was getting my MBA, I pretty much took every exam on no sleep. My insomnia was crazy. But over the recent years, it's been a lot, a lot better. And that's because I started to learn as much as I could about sleep. I started to interview all these sleep scientists and psychiatrists and experts. And this is really how my sleep fascination began. So sleep is super important. Now that I get a lot of sleep, I feel so productive, I feel energized, I feel like my mood is better. Not to mention I feel prettier because I don't have bags under my eyes and I don't feel as tired and I don't feel like I need to wear as much makeup and things like that. And sleep is just such an important part of life and I hope that everybody really takes

time to figure out how to get better sleep because sleep is the foundation of everything. Sleep is a pillar in our lives who spend one third of our lives sleeping. Mateo shared how he went through similar struggles with his sleep and like me he dove into research as an attempt to figure out a solution, and from his research, he created the concept of Aitsleep. And that is the best way, in my opinion, to start a company too, find a problem that you care about and figure out a solution. So Aitsleep really wasn't a response to two main issues that he uncovered. The first is that our bodies don't use sleep efficiently.

We spend seven to nine hours resting, but little of that time is really working to our benefit. And he thinks that if we can train our bodies to use less time in sleeping in a more efficient way, then we can actually improve the quality of our sleep without necessarily increasing the time of our sleep. So everyone always tells like seven to eight hours in bed, but if you're not getting deep REM sleep or rapid eye movement sleep or deep sleep, then you're really not getting great sleep at all. And those are the two stages that regenerate our brain and body after a long day. And like Muneo said, the other stages are really just there to get us into deep sleep

and they don't really matter as much. So deep sleep REM sleep don't really matter as much. So deep sleep REM sleep is what we really want and that's what really gives us the rejuvenation that we need with our sleep. So companies like 8 sleep use methods like thermal regulation to help us achieve that efficient sleep. You can literally set up the temperature of your bed that makes you feel cozy enough to fall asleep and then the bed will auto adjust throughout the night to make sure you don't get too hot or too cold. So some of us run cold, some of us run hot, I run super cold, I'm always freezing in bed, so I would set my temperature probably higher than normal, and this bed actually I have the bed,

so I know there's actually dual zones, so I set my temperature, a different temperature than my partner sets on his side of the bed. So you can set dual temperatures and it just helps you stay asleep for longer. I know a lot of people can relate to this. Sometimes if I'm not in that bed, I'll wake up super hot. Like if there's like a really heavy comforter or if the sheets are not breathable, I'll wake up so hot and feel like I can't sleep because I'm just way too hot. And that happens way too often. So if you're one of those people,

you might want to think about figuring out how you can regulate the temperature in your room, how you can get more breathable sheets, how you can upgrade your sleep gear with something like eight sleep so that you don't wake up hot in the middle of the night, because we know now that you cannot get deep sleep if you feel too hot. And that is a great hack that I think many people don't know about. The second issue that Mateo wanted to fix was the lack of detailed information available

to us about our sleep cycles. In the past, there was gadgets like smart watches, called wearables, but unfortunately, they didn't provide enough information. So he took it to the next level and he created an app that can track sleep stages, sleep time, toss and turns, and so much more. I don't know about you guys, but I am super excited about the future of sleep. I'm excited to potentially live in a world where we only need four to six hours of sleep

to be fully rested and healthy. Imagine living in a world where we get three or four extra hours added to our day and how much more productive and fun of a life that could be. And given where everything is going, I think we all could use extra hours in our day. If you're interested in more information about sleep, make sure you tune back in this Friday on Young & Profiting Podcast because we are doing a special YAP snacks episode

on sleep. We're gonna uncover the best hacks and tricks from all the different experts that we've had on the show on the topic, and it's to be an episode that you do not want to miss. That's all for now. Thanks for listening to Young Improving Podcast. You guys can find me on social media, on LinkedIn, just search my name, it's Halataha, or Instagram at Yap with Halah. Big thanks to my wonderful Yap team.

This is Halah signing off. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week, we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture,

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