Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Michelle Tillis Lederman: 7 Mindset Shifts That Turn Networking Into Your Greatest Advantage | Leadership | YAPClassic

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Starting point is 00:00:44 wardrobe is just one click away. Head to Revolve.com slash profiting, shop my edit, and take 15% off your first order with code profiting. Fast two-day shipping, easy returns. Sometimes I do overnight delivery when I need an outfit in a pinch. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com slash profiting to get my favorites and get 15% off your first order with code profiting. Offer ends November 9th, so happy shopping. Hello, young and profitors. In a world where who you know often outweighs what you know, your ability to connect can make or break your success. In this Yap Classic episode, we're rewinding my conversation with Michelle Tillis Letterman, a top leadership expert, executive

Starting point is 00:01:36 coach, and author of The Connector's Advantage. Michelle believes that genuine connection isn't about collecting contacts. It's about cultivating meaningful relationships built on trust, generosity, and authenticity. In this episode, she breaks down the seven mindsets of a connector and reveals how shifting your focus from networking to connecting can supercharge your career, influence, and happiness. So sit back and enjoy this conversation with the incredible Michelle Tillis Letterman. So Michelle, you're obviously a super successful business owner, speaker, and thought leader, and people often say that you're lucky. They call you lucky, but you say you're actually a connector, and that's what actually makes you luckily. So

Starting point is 00:02:20 Talk to us about how being a connector resembles being lucky. I love that you brought that up because I actually find it really frustrating. We're like, oh, you have all the luck. I'm like, no, no, no, no. This isn't luck that things serendipitously happen. And I tell the story at the opening of the Connector's Advantage around how I got laid off back in 2001 and was literally working my next job with, I had the offer, I think, within three days of my notice. And it wasn't luck. it was relationships, it was connections.

Starting point is 00:02:51 And I really explained that when you have those relationships and you are willing to be clear about what you want and ask for it, that things happen. And they happen faster, easier, and often with a much better result. And that's what I define the connector's advantage as, faster, easier, better results. I love that. And I know that connection and building these connections is more important than ever because we are in the networking age. So it was the industrial age, the technology age.

Starting point is 00:03:21 Now we're in this new networking age. So tell us about why connection is more important than ever. I always say that your relationships and the people in your life are your greatest asset. And that's for organizations as well. They'd say, oh, yes, our assets are our people. But they don't always treat the people that way. And so for me, I want to be out there helping organizations create connected cultures. Because, and I'm taking this now from an organizational standpoint,

Starting point is 00:03:46 If you want retention and loyalty and engagement and productivity and happiness and high morale and all those things organizations want out of their team, you need to be a connected leader and create a connected culture. And that's pretty simple. I mean, I know it sounds really hard, but if you just think about two things, one, ensure that your people know that you care about them as people. I mean, that's kind of basic. And two is show your people you care about the things that they care about. And that takes a lot more, right? listening and adapting and flexing and all of those things. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:18 And I have to imagine, and I know your book was written before this AI revolution that basically started six months ago, how do you think AI is going to transform the way that we need to think about relationships and connections, especially in the workplace? Oh, AI is kind of exciting and scary all at the same time. And I think there's great things. AI can be a collaboration spark. but I wouldn't want you to lose the connection to the collaboration partners

Starting point is 00:04:45 that you have internally. You can almost think about AI as one more person on the team, but not to replace anyone on the team, right? They're a contributor just as we are all contributors and to use the skills that they bring to the table and make sure you're still leveraging all the skills that everyone else around you brings to the table.

Starting point is 00:05:04 And just to add to that, I think AI is really going to help people with technical skills, right? And these hard skills that we once used to need go to school for and train for and memorize, we no longer are going to need to do that because AI is going to handle the hard skills for us. But what it can't do is the soft skills. And that's what makes connectors so special, right? And so I think being a connector is going to be actually more valuable and a skill that more hiring managers and people are going to desire as time goes

Starting point is 00:05:31 on and as AI starts to take more precedent in the workplace, I think being a connector is going to even be more valuable. I do worry about AI kind of removing the authenticity from our communications because one of the things AI does for us is it helps us draft communications really quickly and then we might edit. But we might be sending things without really putting ourselves into them. And that's where that authenticity and that connection can get lost. So use it for what it does, which is speed us up, but make sure that you bookend it with the S&S. of you. I love that. I think that's great advice. So let's talk about the spectrum of connectors to sort of get a foundation for everyone. So you say there's a difference between the levels

Starting point is 00:06:18 of connectors. It's based on two spectrums, the breadth and depth of the connections, and then their tendency to initiate or respond to others. So can you walk us through these spectrums and the type of people you find on either end? You got it. Okay. So I don't think we find too many people all the way on the non-connector spectrum, these are people that don't even think relationships that are valuable. And I actually had a coaching client once that said, I don't value relationships. And I'm thinking, why did you hire me? It was really, really fascinating. But there are people who just don't see the value in relationships. Those are few and far between. Most people are at least what we call emerging connectors. And emerging connectors, somebody who at least sees the value in it, but doesn't

Starting point is 00:06:56 yet have the confidence or knowledge in their skills of how to do it. And so as we start to move from and emerging to a responsive connector, we're starting to think about that first lever that you mentioned, which is, do we initiate or respond to those requests for connection, to those requests for assistance? And a responsive connector is responding. They're like, you need something, I got you. And they're taking action, but they're not initiating the action. They're not identifying and offering what they think that they could do within the relationship. So as we initiate more and not just respond, we're moving all the way to the acting connector. And you can simply do that based on frequency and balancing the initiation and the responsiveness. So

Starting point is 00:07:39 non-connector, responsive connector, acting connector. And honestly, if all of your audience gets to an acting connector stage, I'm a really happy girl. Because we are prioritizing relationships. That's what a connector does in everything that they do and they're embodying the seven mindsets, which we'll get to in a minute. Now, if you want to take it up to level, if you really want to embrace and access the connector's advantage of faster, easier, better results, we're going to pull the other lever, and that's the depth and breadth. So my sister knows everybody in New Jersey real estate law, and no, she is not a New Jersey real estate lawyer, but she knows everybody in that niche. That is a niche connector. It could be a geographic niche, it could be a

Starting point is 00:08:20 industry niche, it could be a functional niche, but they know they are the know of, if you need to know somebody in that field, go check with my sister. If we go wide, now we are going across function, across industry, across geography, across demography, across countries' borders, we go from superconnector all the way to global superconnector. So you can be a global niche connector and you can be a global super connector. And that's pulling those other levers. And those are the people that they have somebody everywhere. I once realized that I was a global super connector when I was talking to somebody and they were in London or something and I'm like, oh, do you know so and so? And I made a connection across the country for two people in the

Starting point is 00:09:03 same location. So that is the ability to build those connections and create those, or I should say connect to those dots anywhere and with anyone. Something that I think is interesting is that you say that not everyone's goal is the same. Not everybody should be a super connector or a global superconnector. Why is that? You don't necessarily need to. I mean, it's great. The higher up the spectrum you get, the more value can add to somebody else, the more connections you can. make, the faster, the easier, the better, right? You get more. But taking my sisters, again, as an example, her industry, her function, her work is all U.S. based. She doesn't necessarily need to access that global area. It is so specific and so narrow and so niche that all the sheriff's officers

Starting point is 00:09:52 in almost every courthouse in New Jersey knows her, all the lawyers. So she is well known in her niche. And so I would call her a super connector, a super niche connector. This is so interesting because it's also the same way that I think about social media. When I'm working with my clients, I'll always ask them, do you want a broad audience? Do you want a niche audience? And usually if they want a niche audience, they have some high ticket offer. They only care about attracting this certain type of person in their network online that can afford their services and it makes them a thought leader in their industry and whatever it is. And then there's people who have a a low ticket offer who wants to attract a broad audience. So it's just interesting to think that the

Starting point is 00:10:35 same type of logic crosses over in real life and online. So let's move on to the seven mindsets of a connector. I know one of the most important ones is to be open, right? Open and accepting. Why is openness such a foundation as a connector? That's actually the first one I talk about because it is foundational, as you said, to be open and accepting. And oftentimes we define open as open to somebody else and accepting of somebody else. But I actually, when I think about being a connector, it is bidirectional. Yes, absolutely. We want to be open to other people. We want to be open to other ideas. We want to be accepting of our differences. But at the same time, we need to be open and accepting of ourselves. And what I talk about are our unique charms, right? So to be open is to

Starting point is 00:11:20 access the law of authenticity that we talked about on the last podcast, right? That's the foundation of likeability is to be the real you, except when people go, you know, but I'm a journey. that's the real me. Being authentic does not give you permission to be a jerk. But being open and accepting has us understand when we have attributes that might not be working for us and when and how to flex them. So a unique charm is that quality about ourselves that is core to who we are, right? For me, I talk a lot. I fill in all the silence, all the gaps. I go, go, go, go, go. And can be a little intense at times, so I'm told. So I know it's who I am. And I also know that it's not always working for me. and to understand how to flex it.

Starting point is 00:12:01 Another example of a unique charm is my husband. I love his sense of humor. I married him for a sense of humor. He still makes me laugh after nearly 20 years. But sometimes he goes for the joke, not at the right time. And that's one of his unique charms and understanding when it works for him and when it works against him.

Starting point is 00:12:19 So to be accepting of ourselves is to embrace ourselves, not be judging and criticizing and beating ourselves up and saying I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy. Wayne's World reference, if you got that one, tell us. I did not. But we need to be open and accepting of ourselves so that we can also give that same grace to everyone else and enable that connection to form.

Starting point is 00:12:44 So when we think about being open, I also want you to think about being open to being wrong. There's so much meat in this one idea, right? Because it's inward, but it's also about our assumptions. One of the big terms out there is unconscious bias, and we all have it. And one of the ways to understand unconscious bias is to make it conscious. And I'm not saying that we want to embrace our bias, but when we are aware of our bias, you can make a choice about how you act with that awareness of how that bias might be leading you in a wrong direction.

Starting point is 00:13:16 Because we make decisions really quickly. We take in little bits of information, and then we decide whatever we're going to decide. And then we look in more information to confirm. that bias. So that's confirmation bias. What I want to do is be open to being wrong. I want you to check your assumptions. I want you to climb back down that ladder. There's four questions I put in the chapter to help people really tactically do that of slow their thinking down so that I can stay open to you, your ideas, and open to being wrong. And I have the questions right here. So what don't I know? How else could I interpret it? What if I'm wrong? Do I want to be right? Am I trying to be right?

Starting point is 00:13:53 And that's the one that I added because I was just like, you know, sometimes I just, I'm just going for the win. Yeah. And sometimes we're not separating the person from the problem. And I'm like, I just don't like you. And therefore, I'm not going to let you in, even though I know you're right. Right. So just being aware of some of our tendencies there.

Starting point is 00:14:12 Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors. Okay. And so this openness part, I really want to make sure that people understand understand it because it is tricky. Like you said, there's like multiple parts. So you talk about this Johari window in your book. It's a visual grid. So I don't think we're going to do a great job explaining a visual grid on an audio podcast. But I would love for you to explain why this tool helps and what we need to understand about this tool. We actually, it's a really simple grid. So I will verbally describe it because it's simply a box with four quadrants, right? We can all imagine

Starting point is 00:14:48 the four quadrants. And at the top of the box, we're going to have what is known to me. and on the other side is what is known to others. And so if we cross those boxes, what is known to me and to others, the box one is my openness. That is where I'm showing who I am to the world. If we have what is known to me but is hidden to others, that is what I'm hiding. That is, you know, that part of me that I'm not sharing with the world.

Starting point is 00:15:14 If it is unknown to me, but it's known to others, that's my blind spot. I'm like, I just didn't realize that's how I'm coming off. that's how I felt when I realized that I was intense and intimidating. I'm like, really? I don't see myself that way at all, but yet I was getting tons of feedback around that. And so the blind spots that we can start to decrease through feedback and self-awareness and taking an information. And then unknown to me and unknown to others, that is simply the unknown, right? It is yet to be discovered. And so our goal is really to expand box one being more open. And we do that by self-disclosure, So we're going to reduce what I'm hiding away by sharing a little bit more of ourselves,

Starting point is 00:15:58 being a little bit more vulnerable, because vulnerability leads to credibility. It's one of those pillars of trust that we talk about at a further chapter down the book. And we are going to seek information to reduce our blind spots. Yapgang, this year has been a whirlwind. So much travel, so many big life changes between moving to Austin, flying to Portugal for my best friend's wedding, and bouncing back and forth to New Jersey to see my family. I feel like I've barely been home. And the travel just won't stop for me.

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Starting point is 00:20:07 you're really talkative. For me, my confidence can sometimes come off as arrogance or that like I don't want to be friendly or something, but really it's just I'm just really confident and like keep it moving, you know what I mean? So it's like, I don't want to change that about me because that's why I'm successful, but maybe I need to make that a unique charm, call it out, joke around about it, make it known so that I share my weakness and be open about it without necessarily stopping the behavior altogether if I don't want to stop the behavior. Is that right? Okay, I love everything you said, but one tweak. Okay. It is not a weakness. A unique charm is not a weakness. Your confidence is your strength, right? This is a quality about yourself that you really do love about yourself.

Starting point is 00:20:50 And at the same time, it is not always working in your interactions with other people. And so what I want people to think about is how do I flex in that moment? So to your point of sometimes coming on too strong or people feeling into, I'm not getting rid of that. That's why I've written four books. That's why I'm successful too. You do don't need to get rid of it, but what you can do. And so here's an example of something because I had that same one as well. We can have more than one. unique charm. I was recently collaborating with somebody on my team. We were designing and co-creating a program. And I said to her off the bat, I said, please disagree with me. Please push back on me. I said, sometimes when I speak, I come off as if my answer is the right answer and there's no room for

Starting point is 00:21:29 anybody else. I said, do not take me that way. So I let them know off the bat not to interpret the way that I know my tendency is to be interpreted. And she's like, that was so great. Thank you. I will pushback. And she does. And it's wonderful. That's such great advice. I think this is something that's like, it's not obvious. It's definitely a tool that we can use to be more open with others. And it's genius, in my opinion, because it's just calling out the elephant in the room. Let me just call it out. So it's not awkward anymore and so that we can get along as well as possible. It's matching intent with impact. And so when we have some of these unique charms, when we have some of these blind spots, we have a certain intent, but it's not.

Starting point is 00:22:10 the impact that we're having. And so in order to have those things and bridge that gap, giving some information about how to interpret me or how to receive something I do or how to even keep me in line. Sometimes I'm like, sometimes I get excited and I interrupt. Don't let me. And so I talk to a lot of my coaching clients about teaching their employees and their assistance and things like that, how to manage them, how to manage up. And it is a amazing tool to create more collaborative, more cohesive, and more productive working relationships. When you tell somebody here's how to keep me in line. This is really, really smart for any leaders or managers tuning in because especially as a leaders, people get afraid to sort of tell you anything

Starting point is 00:22:54 otherwise or counteract your opinion or whatever it is. So I can imagine that that could really help foster relationships in a business. Okay. So let's talk about emotional intelligence. So I know that it's pretty obvious to think that connectors are going to have higher emotional intelligence than non-connectors. Can you talk to us about the five levels of emotional intelligence and how we can improve our emotional intelligence? It's so funny. I was starting to listen to the 10th anniversary of emotional intelligence by Daniel Goldman this morning. Oh, my morning walk. So that's actually really fresh in my mind. And there's a lot of different models of emotional intelligence. and I don't remember who I credit this model to, but I think of it in two parts, self-mastry and

Starting point is 00:23:40 social mastery. So the first three levels of emotional intelligence about self-mastery. So that has to start with self-awareness, which we've already been talking about, right? Understanding my triggers and understanding the good and the bad. And then it's self-regulation. So how do I not be reactive and be more responsive in those moments of trigger and self-motivation? So how do I act in the face of obstacles? How do I keep, as you said, let's go, go, go? When some roadblock or something doesn't go our way, how do we rebound and recover and regroup? So that's the self-mastery. Social mastery is about taking this outside of yourself.

Starting point is 00:24:20 So it's picking up on those social cues, social awareness, right, the awareness of others, and listening, I always say, with your eyes as well as your ears. So what am I getting? And then taking responsibility and checking that assumption, like, I'm feeling this, what's going on there or checking in because we don't want to just assume we're right. And then being able to act and make decisions collaboratively, that's at the pinnacle, right? When I can collaborate, co-create, and make decisions with others, now I have really mastered the emotional intelligence where they feel empowered and appreciated and engaged. Yeah. And it's so interesting to think, I think of my business partner, Kate, and myself, we're so different. We're both

Starting point is 00:25:06 masters at emotional intelligence, but in our own ways. And it's just so interesting to think how you could be really strong in one aspect of emotional intelligence and not so strong on other aspects. What's the best way to gauge where we are? And what are some resources we can use to learn more about EI? Well, there's tons of assessments out there. And, you know, I am a fan of them, but you can do free ones online. There are paid ones where you get a robust report. But if you do the paid ones, do it with a coach because it has expertise in that one tool, because that will help you figure out what to do with it. So we might get a result and say, okay, great, you know what your triggers are,

Starting point is 00:25:43 but you let them trigger you. And so you really need to work on self-regulation and to get to a more responsive place versus a reactive place, then they can help you put an action plan into place to do that. It could be you just don't have an awareness of others as, you know, you're not even looking up from your work. You're so focused down here. that your eyes aren't up here to pick up on those cues that other people are giving you. So your social awareness might be lacking.

Starting point is 00:26:06 So feedback, whether it is self-collected through an assessment, that's the best way you're going to get information. That's how we start to reduce our blind spots. And then Daniel Goldman, I think, has a bunch of books on Emotional. He's like really the Godfather. We also have a whole episode on Yap about that. So I'll mention it in the outro so you guys can check it out. Okay.

Starting point is 00:26:27 So let's talk about agency over our. our lives and having a clear vision for our future. Why is that so important for connectors? I was kind of hoping you'd go to this one. For those who haven't read the book yet, the seven mindsets were going a little bit in order. I'm going to list them out just so you heard them once because we're probably not going to get through all of them. But connectors are open and accepting. They have a clear vision. They trust. They come from a place of abundance. They're social and curious, conscientious, and have a generous spirit. And one of the reasons I put have a clear vision really upfront. And by the way, these are nonlinear. It's not like I have

Starting point is 00:27:02 to do one, then do the next and do the next. They actually enable each other. It's really hard to be conscientious if you don't trust and have a generous spirit if you don't come from a place of abundance. So they really do enable and support each other. But to have a clear vision is the only way you are really going to access the connector's advantage. Because if you don't know what you want, you can't get it. So you can't get faster. your better results if you don't know what result you're looking for. But I've always hated the question, what do you want to do, you know, 10 years from now? Where do you see yourself five years down the road? I'm like, I don't know. I don't want to know now. I want it to be a surprise. I want

Starting point is 00:27:41 the exploration. I don't want predestined. If you have that good on you, I've just never been that person. But it doesn't mean I don't have a clear vision for something. I actually have right here, always in my drawer, my sticky notes. And you'll see there's lots of sticky notes over the years, each year I write a sticky note of what's my vision for the year. And it doesn't have to be the far out plan. It could be the three months, six month, nine month, one year plan. And I don't usually go beyond that. And what that does for us is it has us understand when somebody is embodying the mindset of connector with that spirit of generosity. And they say, what are you working on and how can I help? Which is something I would say everybody listening should be doing all the time

Starting point is 00:28:25 in all those conversations, before you get off, you know, what are you working on? How can I help? Who do you want to know? What would be valuable for you? It's a fabulous question to ask. It's also a really important question to have an answer to. And that's what having a clear vision does for you. So when somebody says, I'm here offering you help, you can say, okay, here's the kind of help I'm looking for. So is this clear vision just related to networking, or are you saying have a clear vision for your goals and then once you know what your goals are, think about what networking you need to do to support that. Give us some rigor around what you want us to do exactly. Okay.

Starting point is 00:29:05 So the first question is, this is not about networking. This is about you, your life, your goals. So having a clear vision about whatever it is that you are trying to accomplish in your life, whether it is a personal goal of changing careers or getting healthier or running a marathon or if it's a professional goal of landing a client, becoming partner, getting a new job, whatever it is, right? You have something you're working on. One time when my second book came out, the Heroes Good Hired book, my goal was to connect with Michelle Obama. And I put it out there. I put it out there so much so that I got a phone call with her chief of staff. I never spoke to her

Starting point is 00:29:40 directly, but that's pretty close. And I got my book in front of her. And that was the goal. When my last book came out, my goal was very simple. I wanted to get to 100 reviews on Amazon. And so they can be small goals. They can be big goals. Right. I just gave you two examples of ones that I've had over time. And they can be different goals based on the person you're talking to. So first thing is, that's what the goal is about. The second thing is, and I kind of squirmed on my seat a little bit when you're like, do we do this first, do we do that first? And you want rigor. And I was like, you know what? I've always been a little organic when it comes to connection. And the truth is that I've had to be a little more intentional about that

Starting point is 00:30:17 post-COVID. I will say that it still makes me squirm a little bit to be too strategic and too, like, tactical when it comes to building relationships. But I actually just designed a course called intentional connection in a hybrid world and have been delivering. I just delivered it to Procter and Gamble women last month. And they were so hungry for it because all the sudden we don't have a water cooler moment. We're only in the office one or two days a week and the people that we want to connect with might not be there the same two days. And there's fewer live events, although they are coming back. And we don't feel as connected to our organizations or to our coworkers or our friends because we're just not in their space anymore. And so, yes, I do think we need to be

Starting point is 00:30:58 intentional about going out and building those relationships and having virtual coffees and we can talk a little bit more about how to be tactical around that. And as I say that, I also just want you to build the relationships that you want to build because that's where the true relationship connection forms deeply and strongly and it lasts. And you don't know who they went to camp with. And you don't know who they went to school with. And you don't know who their neighbor is and you know who they're married to, and those strong ties can lead to the weak ties and the introductions that you might need. Gap Gang, if you run a small business, you know there's nothing small about it. As a business

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Starting point is 00:34:18 shot. I'm obsessed with their approach. Merritt is all about keeping it simple. It's minimalist beauty. I use their products when I want to look polished but still feel like myself. I actually love knowing that their products are clean, vegan, and cruelty-free. It just makes me feel good about what I'm putting on my skin. Plus, it's made with ingredients that nourish my skin. Merritt's annual sale is on now until December 1st. Get 20% off site wide, plus a gift with purchase with every order, while supplies last at Meritbeautcom. That's M-E-R-I-T-Beautcom. Totally understand. Let's talk about the ways that we can achieve what we want, and that means asking for what we want. So let's do quick fire. Right now I'm going to rattle off a type of ask

Starting point is 00:35:05 that you mentioned in your book, and you can tell us what we need to know about. it, how we can use this approach, when we should use it, why it works. So the first one is an opt-out ask. Perfect. And I was hoping you were going to take us to the ask because that's the other part of having a clear vision. You can't just have the clear vision. You have to be willing to ask for what you want. And I always say, if you don't ask the answers, no. If you ask, you immediately increase your odds. And I'm like drilling this into my kids. Every time I'm like, ask, ask, and I'm like, see, you wouldn't have gotten if you didn't ask. I'm very annoying. The opt-out ask is actually one of my favorite asks. It is the easiest one to access.

Starting point is 00:35:43 And the reason I love it is because you are giving the person the reason to say no. And you want to make it as easy for them to say no as it is for them to say yes, because yes is easy and no is hard. And if I have to say no to you or I want to say no to you, now I'm uncomfortable and that puts the relationship at risk. And my goal in teaching you how to ask is to make sure that you don't put a relationship at risk. It is not necessarily always to get the yes, but to increase your chances of getting a yes, either now or later. And that is by putting the relationship at first. So an opt-out ask might be, if your company allows it, I would really appreciate a recommendation on LinkedIn. If your company allows it, is the opt-out. Or if you

Starting point is 00:36:25 have time, I would really appreciate a review on Amazon. If you have time is the opt-out. I'm really busy right now. Totally get it. Don't even think twice. They feel like it's totally okay, and you're not annoyed with them, and now they don't feel like they need to avoid you. I love that, because if you don't give them an opt-out and they say no, then they just feel like, well, I can never talk to this person again now. It makes it less awkward. Okay, how about Make It Easy ask? So Make It Easy has actually a lot of ways to make it easy.

Starting point is 00:36:55 And what we want to do is make it easy for them to say yes. And if it's not yet easy, we're going to find different ways to make it easy. So there is the alternate ask. and all of these are forms of making it easy. The alternate ask is, do you want to try this or do you want to try that? And they can choose because they're of equal value to you and they can feel like, well, that one feels more comfortable. I'll do that one.

Starting point is 00:37:17 So you're giving them options, the alternatives. If you want to make it smaller, you can do the shrinking ask. And so, hey, can I take you out for lunch? And they're thinking, or maybe just a coffee. Or, you know, perhaps we can just jump on a Zoom or a phone call. or, you know, if this is your business season, I totally get it, is there somebody else in the organization that you might connect me to that might have some time, you know, in the next few months? So we're going to make the ask smaller and smaller and smaller until there's something

Starting point is 00:37:46 that they can say yes to because people do want to say yes, right? So instead of them having to figure out the alternative to what you asked for, you can give them smaller and smaller options in ways that you can be supported. And there's also the convenient ask, which is really making it easy. Typically, when somebody is of a higher rank or brings more to the relationship, and we kind of know when we're in those positions, we might say, do you want me to come to your office or do you a favorite coffee shop? What time is best for you? And just really make it as easy and you jump through all the hoops to get to that, yes. I love that. A note on that is if you're talking to somebody busier than you, definitely don't send them a calendar link. Definitely don't say my assistant will send

Starting point is 00:38:31 you times, like you bring the times, you bring the options, like just make it as easy as possible. This is something I see a lot of people screw up. How about the Wiffitt ask? So Wiffitt, for those who haven't heard this phrase, it's what's in it for them. And this is actually one of the most powerful asks because it is putting the benefit forward to create an impetus for action. But it's also one you need to be careful with because sometimes it is really not a benefit to them. and if it is not, don't pretend that it is. And I can't tell you how many times I've got an email, LinkedIn things saying, I think it would be mutually beneficial for us to connect and do-da-da-da-da-da.

Starting point is 00:39:10 And I'm thinking, hmm, where's the benefit? You know, if you're a student and you're going to a CEO, don't say it'll be mutually beneficial. Say, you know, I know that you're really keen on mentorship and I'm trying to learn this. And might you or somebody in your organization, you can combine asks, right? So we're being deferential, we're not saying what's in it for them, and we're giving also shrinking, we're giving options. We're throwing it all in there. But what's in it for them was also there because I said, I know you're really big on mentorship, right? So I'm saying this is something you've said you value. And here's a way for you to execute on one of your values. So there's a WIFIT there. When you are going to your organization and you want to go to this conference and it costs a lot of money and you're trying to convince your organization to pay for it. That's a great time to use a fit. What's in it for the organization for me to go to this? What information can I bring back? How will I bring it back? How will I create value for the organization if I go? These are really good. I feel like this is my favorite part of the interview so far because I feel like it's so actionable,

Starting point is 00:40:14 like we can just use this immediately. Okay, how about the non-ask? So this is my newest favorite. I was all about the opt-out, and now I have really kind of incorporated in the non-ask. And the non-ask is when you're not asking for anything specific. Instead, you're sharing a little bit about your goal or your vision without the ask. But here's the trick. When you bring your energy and when you bring your passion and your enthusiasm and your excitement and you're sharing, here's what I'm working on. Like, you know, hey, I want to make my book a bestseller or, hey, I want to meet Michelle Obama.

Starting point is 00:40:48 Whatever that crazy thing is, that excitement, that exuberism, it's contagious. And people are wanting to help. And if they don't come up with an idea themselves, then you simply followed up with any advice or any ideas for me. And that's not asking them for anything specific, but that's tapping into their brain and their desire to be valuable, to add value, to tap into their generous spirit, their connector mindset, and think about who can I connect them to, what information can I give them, how could I be helpful, what ideas? And this happens to me all the time. I have a mentor. He is a CEO of multiple companies that have gone public. And I've known him since I was pregnant

Starting point is 00:41:28 with my first child, who is now 17. And we are still in touch. And we get together once a year and COVID, maybe not so much. But we've stayed in touch. And I shared with him about my latest book. And while I was still writing, and he goes, well, here's an idea. And I didn't even ask him for ideas. And his ideas were phenomenal. And it's because of him that I have 30 experts in my book giving me and everyone who's reading it even more advice and guidance. And it was because he said, well, let's get a millennial angle here. And it's those moments of brilliance that is just because I'm sharing, here's what I'm working on, here's what I'm excited about. That's the non-ask. I think that works really, really well. So I know that we're not going to have time to cover all these mindsets,

Starting point is 00:42:11 but I do want you to cover them at a high level. So let's talk about abundance, trust, being curious, just walk us through at a high level, some of these mindsets that we didn't talk about yet. I'll think about like when I'm doing my keynote, I give you a like a two-sentence thing on each one. Trust for me is the foundation of relationship. And I talk about four pillars of trust, authenticity, which we talked a little bit about vulnerability, transparency, and consistency. And I will say you have to give trust to get trust. But don't be afraid of vulnerability. It is not weakness.

Starting point is 00:42:41 It is openness. The next one is abundance. This is the hardest one for people. And it's also the hardest one for me because I grew up with scarcity. And whatever scarcity looks like to you, there's not enough money, there's not enough time, there's not enough clients, there's not enough room at the top for women, there's not enough something. And a shift from scarcity to abundance, it's not, everything's fine and everything's going to be great and there's no, no. It is the belief in the possibility and not even the possibility,

Starting point is 00:43:10 the probability that things can be exponentially better than they are, that it doesn't have to be a linear progression, and that there's enough to go around and that I am enough. And it it doesn't mean that we're not jealous at times, but it means that we can put that aside and then so here's an example. A friend of mine landed this amazing client. I was super, super jealous. It was in the sports field. I'm like, oh my God, can I work for you? You know, do you need help? I'm like, how did you land them? And I was really like, ah, for a little bit. And that's okay. Feel it. Let it go. Release it. And then I went back and I'm just like, okay, teach me. How did you land that one? This is something I want to stick on for a moment because for me, I consider myself a super connector.

Starting point is 00:43:53 And I think one of my big things is that I never look at anybody as competition. You could be in my field. You could be also like LinkedIn, podcast or whatever. I'm just going to figure out how you can help me and how we can help each other and how we can work together and collaborate. So I always say collaboration over competition. And if you don't have this abundant mindset, you will never work with your competitors. and this is one of the most important things you can do to get ahead is to actually be friends with

Starting point is 00:44:22 and work with people who are your competitors or in your same field. And a lot of people get tripped up on this. They don't want to help anyone. They don't want to give away any sort of secrets. And like, that's definitely not how you grow within your niche. It's like we're of the same mind. I knew when we met the first time that we connected

Starting point is 00:44:41 because we think alike. Something I always say is I have no competition. I only have potential strategic. to alliances. People like, well, who's your biggest contender? I'm like, I don't have competitors. I don't need to be in competition. There is enough. And I have collaboration partners and I have strategic partners and alliances and friends and colleagues. And that's how I view everyone and anyone. Okay, so take us to the next one. So we are up to social and curious. And I'm always very careful with this one because a lot of the introverts out there are like, I don't like this

Starting point is 00:45:13 one. But let me be clear, there's a section in this called the introverts edge because being social and curious is not a social butterfly. It's not the life of the party. It is simply putting yourself in a position to be social and curious about one other individual. And introverts are actually really uniquely skilled and naturally good at this. So that's really why social and curious go together because they need to go together if you want to build connection and relationships. Let me stick on this for a second. So I know that introverts are great listeners. So that's a great skill as a networker. Talk to us about the different formats that they can leverage to ensure that they'll be successful. So that's a really important thing. And I say find your format, right?

Starting point is 00:45:56 Whether you want to be on this platform, that platform, face-to-face, big conferences, small roundtables, whatever format or channel of communication for you to connect and be social and curious on is your choice. At the same time, I want everyone out there listening to think about their stretch. I don't want you to be stretching all the time, but if we're always stretching just a little or often stretching just a little, then the next time it's not as big a stretch. So find your format, be comfortable, and work in the environments in which you thrive and always think about a stretch. I really appreciate that advice

Starting point is 00:46:34 because I know a lot of people that are introverts and they'll say like, well, I really only do one-on-one. But when you're friends with extroverts, we don't want to be one-on-one. And so you might just get left out of opportunities that are not one-on-one, right?

Starting point is 00:46:47 And so you want to make sure you're open to different opportunities. I know it's harder for people who are introverts, but like you said, to stretch is important. Okay, so what else is down the line? conscientious. And I wish we had more time because this is one that I think everyone needs. And it's the idea that connectors do what they say they're going to do. They follow up and they follow through. And if they're able to do that, they need to learn how to say yes and they need to learn

Starting point is 00:47:13 how to say no. And so it's about setting up boundaries. It's about being generous with yourself. Right. So we said these enable each other. Right. I can't be conscientious. I also have to be generous spirit, not just to others, but generous spirit to myself. So creating boundaries and recognizing that yes and no are not one-word answers. And we won't go into it, but in that chapter, I give you lots of ways to frame a yes and a no, again, not to be off-putting in the relationship. And then generosity, is that the last one? That's the last one. You can't be a connector if you do not want to add value, if you do not want to support and show that interest in something else, because that's what a connector's mindset is, is thinking about not just me

Starting point is 00:47:54 and not just you, but the interaction between us and how we can create value for all. Okay, so I love this. And let's transition into like our tactical best advice, give us exercises, activity portion of the interview. So like I mentioned, I consider networking to be one of my top skills, right? I feel like the reason why I'm very successful and dominated my niche is because I've had these networking skills. And so one of the things that I like to do, speaking of generosity, is I always think of ways to add value. And my favorite way to do this is to actually introduce two people together in my network. So when I first meet somebody, one of the first things I think about is who in my network can

Starting point is 00:48:35 solve their problem. So I try to understand what their problem is, even if I have nothing to do with it, if I have zero expertise, I interview so many people on my podcast, I meet so many people. So I sort of know an expert in everything. And then I try to introduce them to somebody who I already know. And so what I'm doing is basically giving value to a cold connection and then warming up an existing connection and putting them together. And I learned from Jordan Harbinger to do this in the best way, I have to do a double often intro. So I'll ask the first person, hey, I've got somebody who I think is going to solve your problem. Are you okay with me introducing you guys on email? Then I ask the other person, hey, I think I have a potential client for you. Are you

Starting point is 00:49:13 okay? Do you have bandwidth? Can I introduce you over email? You get both yeses and then you introduce them. don't want to do is introduce people without asking them first, especially if one of them is like a celebrity or an influencer, you don't want to give away somebody's email. If they're not really a celebrity or influencer, you have less risk there, but I would definitely do a double opt-in intro. Any other suggestions in terms of how we can bring value to other people when networking? So I have so much to add on the intros. Yeah. Go tell me. Tell me. I think you will build a reputation with people that when the intro is equal, you won't necessarily have to do the permissions all the time. When they're unequal, you want to make sure you're at least doing the

Starting point is 00:49:54 permission at the higher level. I agree with that fully. So introductions, love, that's one of the greatest ways to add value. Information, invitations, appreciation, recognition, engagement, right? So on the social media, a great way to add value is a like, a comment, a share. There's lots of light touches that we can do to show that we are wanting to stay in somebody's orbit and be in their mind, have our name pop up, but not get in their face. And, you know, one of the things that you said was something really tactical. And when you asked me that, the first thing that came to my mind is a lot of times introverts and extroverts will have somebody pop into their mind and then it'll float right back out. I want you to hold on to it.

Starting point is 00:50:35 When somebody pops into your mind, write their name down, right into your calendar, your outlook, your whatever. And then when it pops back up, send them a note, send him a tweet, send him a text, send them a something and just say, hey, I was just thinking about you, what's up? I've been just doing something on social media lately of just anybody who all of a sudden, if I see them pop up, and I'm like, ah, and I have that moment of curiosity, they're going to get a little note on LinkedIn of saying, you just popped up in my feed, checking in, what's going on, here's what's going on with me. It's really quick. And so those light touches where you're not really requiring or requesting or asking for anything, but just keeping it fresh.

Starting point is 00:51:12 And then if we think about tactics for if it's already kind of feels a little stale and it's gone a little stale, my favorite subject line of an email is it's been too long. Just acknowledge, as we said all along, we acknowledge the elephant in the room. I used to have this graveyard. I called it my graveyard of business cards, which I threw out over the pandemic. But like you'd collect them and then they just pile up. And sometimes you'd like go through and clean them up and I'd be like, I forgot about this person. And I said, I'm not saying, I just found your business card on my desk.

Starting point is 00:51:42 And that would be another subject line. And usually I'd written something on it so I could reference. But those are two little quick things that anybody can do right now. Yeah, and you can take this business card idea and you can use your text messages or your email, scroll all the way to the bottom, see, like, whoever and I talked to in a while and just sort of refresh those connections. Okay, last question before you go. Hybrid work environment, we teased it out before.

Starting point is 00:52:05 What are some things that we should consider when connecting in a hybrid work environment? Oh, there's so much. Okay. So I really talk about being intentional about what you do at work when you're with people and being intentional about what you decide to do in a virtual environment. But one of the things you have to be intentional about is building into the agenda those moments of water cooler. Right. So we get on and everyone's on a little bit early. The meeting always has a five minute grace. That five minutes is the chit chat that happens as we're coming into the room. Be inclusive. Everyone's listening to your chit chat. So as people come into the room, invite them into that conversation. So you're broadening the conversation. And we're, We have it. You can have rotating icebreakers, and they're not necessarily ice breakers anymore. I'll call them connection activities. It could be, hey, let's give me a tour of your office. It could be hold up something on your desk that makes you smile every day. Or turn your camera around so we can see what you're looking at. I mean, I have a list of them. Like, I have so many that I could share around little things, but rotate who's running it. So it's not just the boss every time

Starting point is 00:53:06 saying, okay, today's thing is this. It's, all right, we're going and alphabetical order, and next week it's going to be you, and you get to come up with what we're going to talk about for the first five or 15 minutes. And not every meeting, but build some of those things in. Well, I know you have to run, so we're not going to do your actionable advice, because you already did that. What is your secret to profiting in life, Michelle? Relationships, of course. It's network, not for need or for now, but build a relationship that you want to, that you get to, that will sustain you all the way through. And we're going to. And we're going to. And we're can our listeners learn more about you and everything you do?

Starting point is 00:53:43 I love hearing from listeners and tell me that you heard me on this podcast. And the best place to start is my website, which is Michelle with 2L's, T-I-L-L-L-I-S, T-I-L-L-L-E-R-M-A-N. From there, you're going to find my blog, my YouTube channel, my LinkedIn newsletter. LinkedIn is my favorite place to be, so connect me there. I'm also on Insta. You'll find all the places from there. Perfect. And we'll stick all those links in the show notes to make it super easy.

Starting point is 00:54:08 Michelle, thank you. It's always a pleasure. Likewise.

Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Michelle Tillis Lederman: 7 Mindset Shifts That Turn Networking Into Your Greatest Advantage | Leadership | YAPClassic

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