Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Morgan DeBaun: Your Startup Survival Kit, from VC Funding to Leadership | E263

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

When 18-year-old Michael Brown was killed in his home state of Missouri in 2014, Morgan DeBaun was working at a technology company in Silicon Valley. Unhappy with her job and dismayed about the media coverage of the story, she decided to change course. She co-founded Blavity, which became a leading digital media company for Black culture and millennials. Morgan has succeeded despite steep odds to forge an incredibly successful portfolio of companies. In today’s episode, she is going to share with us how she built an influential media empire and give us some pointers on how to navigate some of the most challenging parts of founding a company.   Morgan DeBaun is a serial entrepreneur, executive, and corporate advisor. She is the founder, CEO, and Chairman of Blavity Inc., a leading digital media company for Black culture and millennials. Morgan also acts as an advisor to influential global brands and companies including PepsiCo., American Airlines, CES, and other businesses.   In this episode, Hala and Morgan will discuss: - Why hard work is not enough - Being an outsider in Silicon Valley - How to pitch a VC firm - How to enlist your donors for help - The right amount of equity to give away in a startup - Talent acquisition and diversity in the tech space - Advising Pepsi and American Airlines - The virtues of anonymous employee surveys - Balancing entrepreneurship with personal relationships - And other topics…   Morgan DeBaun is a serial entrepreneur, executive, and corporate advisor. She is the founder, CEO and Chairman of Blavity Inc., a leading digital media company for Black culture and millennials. Through her work at Blavity, Morgan has grown the company into a market leader for Black media, reaching millions of readers through a growing brand portfolio that includes: Blavity News, 21Ninety, AfroTech, Travel Noire, Shadow & Act, and Blavity TV. Morgan also acts as an advisor to influential global brands and companies including PepsiCo., American Airlines, CES, and other businesses. She also hosts The Journey podcast, a weekly podcast that delves into the captivating stories of purpose-driven achievers on their quest to live their best lives and has her own newsletter, The Journey Newsletter, which gives advice on building a sustainable and scalable career and life.   Resources Mentioned: Morgan’s Website: https://www.morgandebaun.com/ Morgan’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgandebaun/ Morgan’s TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@morgandebaun Morgan’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/MorganDeBaun Morgan’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/morgandebaun/ Morgan’s Podcast, The Journey: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-journey-with-morgan-debaun/id1687058364 Morgan’s Company, Blavity: https://blavity.com/   LinkedIn Secrets Masterclass, Have Job Security For Life: Use code ‘podcast’ for 30% off at yapmedia.io/course.   Sponsored By: Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at youngandprofiting.co/shopify Articulate 360 - Visit articulate.com/360 to start a free 30-day trial of Articulate 360 MasterClass - Right now you can get Two Memberships for the Price of One at youngandprofiting.co/masterclass Nom Nom - Go to youngandprofiting.co/trynomnom for 50% off on your two-week trial  HelloFresh - Go to HelloFresh.com/profitingfree and use code profitingfree for FREE breakfast for life! Help Save Palestinian Lives:  Donate money for eSIM cards for the people of Gaza at https://youngandprofiting.co/DonateWHala   More About Young and Profiting Download Transcripts - youngandprofiting.com  Get Sponsorship Deals - youngandprofiting.com/sponsorships Leave a Review -  ratethispodcast.com/yap Watch Videos - youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting   Follow Hala Taha LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Instagram - instagram.com/yapwithhala/ TikTok - tiktok.com/@yapwithhala Twitter - twitter.com/yapwithhala   Learn more about YAP Media Agency Services - yapmedia.io/

Today's episode of Young & Profiting is sponsored by Shopify, Articulate, Masterclass, NOM NOM, and HelloFresh. Shopify simplifies selling online so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Switch to Shopify today at Shopify.com-profiting. Articulate360 is a premier leader in workplace learning. Visit Articulate.com-360 to start a free 30 day trial. With master class, you can learn from the best to become your best. Get two memberships for the price of one at masterclass.com slash profiting. NOM NOM delivers freshly made dog food straight

to your door. For 50% off a two week trial, go to trinom.com slash profiting. Skip the grocery store and save time with easy, tasty recipes delivered to your door with Hello and than what they clicked. And if I just went by clicks, I would just write about Comcartes' Acheon all day. But that's not really what we needed. Every employee of Labrity is equity. Oh wow. Yes, I know, I'm a crazy lady. I asked the people who gave me money to help me finish raising them around. I don't think enough people put the burden on others

to help them be successful. When actually it is their job and they want to. It's a terrible problem when you are the underrepresented group trying to get information to one another that is accurate, that is in real time, and without media and platforms, you wind up just perpetuating the cycle over and over again. The people who are really making the big decisions need to have inclusion and diversity as a part of their own values,

because it does make a difference. I went out to raise money and I was really strict at the time. What I said. Young and profitors, welcome back to the show. And today we have a true unicorn in the tech industry with us. A black female co-founder and CEO of a digital media startup who succeeded despite steep odds to forge an incredibly successful portfolio of companies.

Morgan DeBon is the founder, CEO and chairman of Blavety Inc. a leading digital media company for black culture and millennials. Morgan has been recognized by Forbes 30 under 30 and America's top 50 women in tech, and she also acts as an advisor to influential global companies like Pepsi and American Airlines. Morgan is going to share with us how she built an influential media empire and she's going to give us some pointers on how to navigate some of the most challenging parts of founding a company, like VC funding and leadership. Morgan, welcome to Young & Profiting Podcast.

Thanks for having me, excited to be here. I'm so happy to have you on this show today. I think we're gonna garner a lot of life lessons from your journey. And you've accomplished so much at such a young age. And it seems like a lot of your success really comes from being able to effectively straddle so many different environments and communities from Silicon Valley to St. Louis where you grew up.

So let's start here. How did your childhood in St. Louis impact your outlook on life today? Yeah, I was born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri, you know, middle of America, very like American values. I think that one thing about being in the Midwest is people work hard, but also maybe don't make it to where they want to go. So this kind of idea of hard work pays off, and if you just buckle up by your bootstraps, it's what's your top, right? Like living in America, I'm like, that's what they say, but in reality, it's not just hard work, right? And I saw that and I think I observed that time and time again,

and when I eventually moved to Silicon Valley straight after graduation, I went to watch you for undergrad and moved out to the Bay Area. I was like, oh, this is not about how to work at all. This is about access, opportunity. Yes, you need discipline, yes, you need to be focused. You know, there's all these different things you need, but it is not just about brute force. And I think that's one of the things that I really encourage people to reconsider as they're building towards their financial freedom and their wealth journey or their business, because this hustle culture, I think, has messed up our perception of what's possible. I love that.

And I know that in your work, you often talk about code switching throughout your childhood. I always had to sort of be a certain person in one place and then switch off in a different place, depending on your environment. And I think a lot of people who are listening to this podcast, they might not even know what that means. They might not understand that people have to do that.

So talk to us about that. Yeah, you know, I am a black woman and I grew up in a diverse set of different sets of schooling. You know, I went to a Catholic all-girl school. I'm not Catholic. I'm Christian, but you know, that's a very different type of Christian. I then went to a primarily white institution wash you where the black populations

for it is 6% depending on the year. And I always view the ability to be one of the underrepresented groups as an opportunity to one, learn how other people think other cultures work. And then to also reestablished a really clear grounding of who I am, not just what society has propelled me to be. And I think learning that skill at a young age, whether I wanted to be the other or not,

caused me to have this resiliency, but then also have this ability to be flexible. So when I moved into the workspace, I moved into different professional spaces. I was able to say, OK, I know how these white boys in Silicon Valley move. I know how the corporate industry moves. I know how to have a conversation with someone

who I don't necessarily agree with their religious beliefs. But we're still able to have a connection and not necessarily be intimidated by moving in and out of these different groups. Yeah, that makes sense. So I'm Palestinian-American, really crazy time to be a Palestinian-American in America. And I grew up in a way where I feel like

I had more privilege than maybe other Arab-Americans had and America, my dad was a doctor. He worked really hard. And then I felt like I have this extreme responsibility to be very successful and sort of help other people along the way because I just feel like I started off at a different place from other people.

Do you feel this same similar? Because I hear that you went to private school and like probably a very different experience from other African-American people from that region especially. Yeah, you're right. And I actually, my dad's a doctor as well. So we're not surprising. We kind of both on up in similar similar but different. But yeah, I do feel like because I was able to see the access of opportunity that I had compared to other folks, Black folks who lived in St. Louis specifically, I went to a public school for all the way through middle school and then private for high school. And so I was able to

see all my friends from middle school who didn't make it, who didn't graduate from high school, who had children really, really young, who are still in St. Louis right now and didn't necessarily make it out of the city, not that there's anything wrong with staying where you're from. But if they had had a choice, I think they would have chosen a different life for themselves. And I think that the internet and being able to have access to Silicon Valley has given me the chance to say, okay, how do I build a platform to bring other people along and

speed up the likelihood and reduce that gap between if I had the opportunity and the access, I would be more successful. I would have more wealth, more savings, more freedom, more control over who I want to be and how I spend my time. So definitely, I think that was a huge part of how I wound up doing this. Totally. And so you ended up graduating at the top of your class at Washington University in St. Louis. And that's not exactly like a feeder school for Silicon Valley. So how did you end up transitioning and going to Silicon Valley?

It is not a feeder school for Silicon Valley at all. People thought I was a little bit nuts. This was again, what, 12, 13 years ago. I mean, Silicon Valley was not really invoked, like it is now our startup life. And so I worked at a tech company in St. Louis, like one of the very few, as an intern, my junior senior year. And I took the time to understand, okay, how did this guy get all this money? Like the founder was like,

which is very confusing to me, cause it's just so not normal in the day to day life of what I was saying from like entrepreneurs and business folks. And he told me I said, well where should I go when I graduate? Where should I be applying? And he said he should apply to Singapore.

You should go and look for companies in Singapore and try to get to Singapore post-graduation. And I was like, I've lived. This black girl is starting to want to sing. That's a stretch. What's my number two accent? Okay. What is my number two accent?

And he said, okay, you can go to Silicon Valley, but there's a lot of the.com wealth gain has already been done, but there's still a lot of room for growth there. So I started looking at companies whose products I used. And at the time, I was filing my taxes for the first time, because I had my low internship, and I was making some money, and then I was using mint.com to manage that money. And so I wound up applying to a company called Intuit, which has grown tremendously since then, and moved out to the Bay Area to work there.

So it was definitely not the pathway that was traditional for the cohort of people that I was around. And yet the beautiful thing about going outside your pathway is that once you get there, you actually find a whole new tribe of people that did exactly the same thing. I love that. So when I got there was certainly a culture shock from a vocabulary perspective. You know, I didn't go to Stanford site. I didn't like know all of the things that people were talking about, but the energy was my energy.

You know, it's people who wanted to do big things, who wanted to build for millions and billions of people, who wanted to make an impacted early age and want to wait till they were 60 to have a say. And that was really energizing for me. Yeah. And it sounds like you did find a community, but were there any points in this experience in Silicon Valley where you were treated like an outsider or felt like an outsider? Yeah.

So I think I found a community of people who were like-minded, but not necessarily who, I think, have the social awareness that I had grown up with. So because it's a very homogeneous community of mostly white and Asian men, we can talk to talk about venture funding and tech, but when it comes to, hey, why don't we potentially like put the product into Spanish? It's like, well, why would we do that? You know, like, when we do our

user testing, why are the only people we use our test just stay in home moms in Palo Alto? Maybe we should get some more diversity in our like UI UX research psychricks. So I found myself having friction on the how to get things done and feeling like I was explaining myself and educating them, these people who make 10x what I make, who are the big bosses in the room, and I made a decision at that point after a few years of learning the game, oh this could be the rest of my life. I could stay incorporate and be the girl who's like explaining all the things.

But is that really, is that going to be the fastest way one for change? Because I would only be at that company if I was doing it. And two, is that how I want to spend my time? Is that the impact that I want to make? And that was the friction between loving my work, loving the ecosystem, identifying, you know, we're not quite there yet. And then trying to figure out, well, what is my role in this space? Yeah. And then I know around that time, you started to really see like an opportunity in the marketplace, especially when it came to Brown and Black people. What was it that you saw? What gaps do you see?

and black people. What was it that you saw? What gaps do you see? Yeah, so about two and a half, three years in, Michael Brown was killed in St. Louis. So I was having a moment where I would go into my cubicle and downtown San Francisco, and I would be heartbroken, just scream it internally at the computer, all my phone, and meanwhile, the world's just like operating like nothing is wrong. Me and I feel kind of have feels I'm going through it right now. You know, everybody's just bumping along and you're like, hello, what is going on? You know, and how can I be helpful? How can I leverage my platform? How can I use my skills, my unique set of skills to make an impact. And I didn't have a platform at the time, right? I mean, I'm 24 years old, right? But I did have skills. And I did

have the ability to say, you know what? I now have some network. Let me figure out how I can create a unique brand and company that is an advocate for this group of people that's often overlooked and more importantly doesn't have the information distribution systems that we needed to get information from place to place and act here in a way. It's crazy that I'm saying this right now because it's like the exact same problem that's happening in a lot of different communities. And it's terrible. It's a terrible problem when you are the underrepresented group trying to get information to one another that is accurate, that is in real time, and that you're trying to get resources to the people on the ground, which in our case was back in St. Louis, like

bail bonds. You know, people were going to jail when you needed to get them out of jail. People were then driving the different cities where all these uprisings were happening. You need to get them money. It's an entire cluster. And without media and information, sharing and platforms, you wind up just perpetuating the cycle over and over again. So that was the problem. And that's when I said, I'm going to take this leap and really commit to over the next three to four months figuring out how to quit my job and be full time working on gravity. Wow. So I didn't realize that gravity first started off basically to help a human rights movement within America. That's basically why it started, right?

And then it's evolved and we'll talk about the evolution. So it really started off with you creating an email newsletter, right? Why did you start that way? Cheap, free. I was broke. You know, I think the email newsletters are smart because you can just get to people fast. You don't have the dependency on social network algorithms. Much like SMS, you're right, to people fast. You don't have the dependency on social network algorithms,

much like SMS, you're right, and people's fingertips. It's really hard for people not to open emails or at least scan the subject line. So that was my lowest barrier to entry to be able to get to the masses of people that we wanted to connect with. And how did you first collect emails? Well, what I did probably wasn't legal.

But I scraped emails. Well, what I did probably wasn't legal. But I scraped emails from like when people wouldn't BCC list within our little community, I'm like, oh, immediately adding into my email list. Now, I do not recommend this to anybody. 10 years ago, that was like all, that was normal 10 years ago. It's different times now. Different times. And I love email newsletters, guys. I just really started getting into email like the last year and it's been awesome. People really click those things. They really open it up into your point, especially when it's like sensitive topics.

You don't have the algorithm and social media networks like shadow banning you or you could just get the word out. So how did you figure out the kind of content that your audience really wanted to read? What was the ways that you got your content ideas for this email newsletter? Yeah, so there's two things. On one end, we were able to track all the information in the newsletter, right? You're able to track what people are watching, what people are clicking on. If they're sharing the newsletter, if your newsletter is growing organically, what I called

and what the world calls as a viral coefficient, right? So for every two or three people who sign up for the newsletter, do you get another one to three people? So you've got a good machine going on. That's a very organic and that's going to allow you to grow quickly and cheaply. And that's what you're looking from a Silicon Valley perspective as a product manager. That's what I was looking for was, is this sticky enough that people are going to share it on their own so that I don't have to try to build a huge marketing engine.

The product and the value should be so good that they want to share it. And we learned a lot of different things really quickly. I mean, the good thing about a daily newsletter is that you have a daily data set every day. And what we found was a few different things. One, what people say they want to read or watch is different than what they click. And as a curator of information as a platform, you have to decide and have really strong values

or else you could go to a place where people are just clicking without any sort of value to that person. If that makes sense. If I just went by clicks, I would just write about Kim Kardashian, all day. But that's not really what we needed, called PWI. This might have been your experience as well, but like, you know, you go to lunch, everybody sits with who they identify with at lunch. And so you couldn't tell the black people anything. As far as I'm concerned, I went to the HBCU because it was like

black, black, like all the time, especially at lunch and parties and things like that. And anytime we would all discover each other, have critical conversations, people would be doing homework, people would be talking about dating, like whatever was going on. It was just this really beautiful moment in the day where you felt seen and heard and felt like you

were part of a community, even though when you walked out that lunch room, it's back to you and you and two other people in your EGAR 101 class. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors. Something we always talk about on this podcast is trusting your gut and leveraging your creativity to make it as an entrepreneur. As an entrepreneur, I always want to get better at these skills, so I took Whitney Wolf Hurd's new class on Masterclass. Whitney is the founder of Bumble. She's the youngest person to take a company public and also the youngest self-made female

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How are you spending your time? I woke up really early. You know, we're on the West Coast. So I would wake up and do East Coast meetings, go to work, walk to work. I was saving every penny I had. So, you know, I was eating boiled eggs and oatmeal and avocados or cheap and cally. I would even bring top of where to work because we had a lot of free food, just like shameless. You know, I was just saving every penny that I had. And after work, I would

had to like happy hours of founder meetups just trying to immerse myself in the community and get to know who's who and the players and how the tech industry worked. And then from there in 2014, January of 2014, I was starting on Blabby. We launched our first version of the product in the spring, the first version of the website in July of 2014. My grandma's killed in August.

And if he hadn't been murdered, I wouldn't have, I think felt the urgency to quit. Like I think I would have stayed on the side hustle, main hustle dance for another year. But at that point, I said, OK, I have to figure out my finances to be able to quit. So by October, I was fully out of the business into it. And I took on more side hustles actually once I quit,

because I still had a downtown apartment in downtown San Francisco, and I was financing, I was bootstrapping the company. So I was paying for the engineers, the bloggers, the site maintenance and everything. So I took on a consulting job, I arbitrarized an apartment so that I could, you know, I rented out an apartment and then rented it out to somebody else for a higher price. I mean, I was literally just hustling, trying to make ends meet so that as much of my discretionary income as possible, we'd go into the business. So I have no experience with fundraising. I started my company's totally bootstraps.

I think a lot of people don't have the experience that I had. It was like a slow organic experience. And then I got really huge retainers as soon as I started my companies. So let's talk about fundraising because you have a lot of experience with it. Talk to us about the steps that we have to take to get VC money. What are the things we need to prepare,

things we need to create? How do we go out and find people to pitch to, just walk us through that whole process? You know, if I could have stayed bootstrapping, I would have, I think it's the better option for most people. And in my scenario, the reason why I ultimately decided to fundraise is because I couldn't, we were growing so fast I couldn't sell finance, the growth, and we were leaving a lot of money on the table.

And I also felt a responsibility to convert people who were working as contractors or bloggers into a more sustainable, like living baseline wage. I mean, it was still start-up wages, but something is better than nothing. So it was about the summer after Blabby launched 2015 when I went out to try to fundraise. Now again, black girl, San Francisco 2014. Not really invoked. There's a lot of new conversations around equity in VC and I love that. It's beautiful. There's funds dedicated to minorities raising money, but none of that existed when I was out there.

So the first thing is identifying why you're fundraising and making a decision on if your business is venture backable or not. And at the time, there's a lot of media companies that were raising money. You had advice, you had Buzzfeed, you had upworthy attention, so many media companies, Mike, for example, some of them exist now, some of them don't. But I had enough data that showed, yes, this is a category that people will spend and invest in. Then the second thing is, do you want to

be a venture backed founder? Because there's another set of responsibilities that comes from taking outside money. You dilute yourself and give away a piece of your company and therefore you're getting power away. And the more money you raise, the less power you have, and the more people who become your bosses, right? The irony of entrepreneurship. And then the last thing is, if I take this money, am I gonna be able to give it back at a really high return at the speed

at which this industry requires me to do so. So typically in the venture capital world, they're looking for a five to seven year return timeframe, which means within five to seven years you need to sell your company or you need to have an IPO, which is a public sale. So AMI is the founder willing to commit to a five to seven year timeframe. At the time, I was. So all of those things were true for me. I went out to raise money and I was really militant and really strict at the time. And so what did I do? I said, I want all black investors. I want all blackboard.

And this is a black media company. So the people who own this need to be a reflection of our community. Right? Well, all the black people said no. has need to be a reflection of our community, right? Well, all the black people said no. So that was a strike. And they were friendly about it, and I know all these people now, I love them now, but it hurt. I mean, I was like, on the floor, crying.

I mean, it was terrible. I felt like if they don't get me, then how could somebody else? And like, if they don't want to put the money behind this problem that impacts them in their children, in their children's children, and all the things, then why would Jenny from around the block do it? So I had to sit for a couple of weeks and lick my wounds and then, you know, I was talking to some people in my network and they said, well, have you considered social impact investors?

And I had never heard of social impact investors. I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about. And a social impact investor is someone or a fund who wants to make investments in venture backable startups and enterprise investments, not investing in nonprofits, but they do have a strong fiduciary responsibility to invest in companies that are going to do good. So they're set of criteria while they still want money back. They're not looking for as much money back.

A while they want it fast, is it takes a little longer and you're doing good? It's okay. So they're set of criteria was a bit different. And so my first set of investors actually wanted to be social impact investors, people who cared deeply about diversity and media and democracy, people who cared deeply about there being examples of companies run by women of color at scale that are profitable, that aren't charities, you know, and that is how I raised my first round of funding, which is around $500,000, which to me was everything.

And for a lot of people, that's a lot of money to get started with. So talk to us about the behind the scenes of that. How did you find these social impact investors? How did you pitch them? What was that like? What did you prepare? What was the meeting like?

Because I think a lot of people don't hear this little nitty gritty information in terms of fundraising. Yeah, so I had my deck that was a failure from the first round. And so I then, I knew that I shouldn't use the same materials because I needed to tell a different story, right? Because they're evaluating impacts. So they were going to want to know how to help people, how do you measure impact? So I needed to think, put myself in the mindset of these folks

and understand what their criteria was. And I just did research. I mean, it wasn't glamorous. It's literally just brute force, reading forums, reading things on Reddit, like just research, because I didn't know anyone. And the second thing was I applied for a program that would give me a certain amount of financing was like a hundred K. And they were all group of social impact investors that were financing

the program. And as a part of that process, they gave you all of these templates to fill out, like a financial template, all these questions to answer. And so I signed up for that program was called a new media ventures. There still exists today and still run this program. And through that process, I was able to put together my three-year projections, financial projections, which again felt insane to me. I'm like, I'm just making shit up. Like, I love that. What's going to happen in three years? How are you guys going to know? Do you know something? I don't know. So I updated my pitch, Jack, which was pretty straightforward. Like I said, I just updated some of the slides

in terms of impact. I told the vision of gravity, ink, and where I wanted to go differently. So I talked about hiring and financing the next generation of journalists. I talked about how the more that you see images in advertising, the reflection of you, the more it changes your perception about what's possible and that I talked more about the stuff stuff.

And then I won that first 100K. And then what I did next, and this is what I would recommend for anybody who's fundraising. I then asked the people who gave me money to help me finish raising the rest of my round. I tried to make it their responsibility now that they've said yes to me to make me successful. And I don't think enough people put the burden on others to help them be successful when actually it is their job and they want to, right? You say, thank you for the money and you move on.

And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Thank you for the money. We're now married forever. How else can you help me? And I said, introduce me to people. I was introduced to people on their board. I was introduced to their finances. And that's how I filled out the rest of my round was actually

all of the really, really wealthy people that were giving them money. And that kind of created this cover for our initial set of business because I had a really strong network of angel investors and funds who made this commitment to, you know, we want to see Morgan and we want to see Blabby grow. And how did you decide how much equity you wanted to give away? I hated how much equity I had to give away in the early stages. I was shocked and shocked how much these VCs want to give away.

So every round they typically want 10 to 20% of your business. Every time you raise and I was like, no, I don't want to do that. So actually that's one of the reasons I stopped fundraising. So I've raised $13 million in the last, you know, over the last six plus years. And I have not raised since 2018 because I do not want to continue to dilute my own ownership and the ownership of my employees

and our existing investors because every time you do that, you go down 10 to 20%. Yeah, I only have given out equity to my executives basically. Right. Who've been on my team because they're putting in sweat equity, they're deciding not to start their own companies to work on this company and so on. So you've given equity to some of your employees and team members? Yeah, every employee at Blavody gets equity. Oh, wow.

Yes, I know, I'm a crazy lady, but it was important to me. Talk to us about why? When you become an owner of something, you treat it differently. You treat it differently, and you make decisions differently. I believe that. I also believe it's quarter our mission. Although we're not a social impact company only, we were

for profit enterprise, I do believe that it is my responsibility as a CEO to building more progressive version of what companies should look like. Yeah, I mean, I'm curious just to understand what does that look like? If somebody signs on, at what point do they get equities, do they get distributions? Like, how does that work? We have salary bands based off of levels. And so our salary bands that are based off of levels also include a set of stock options. And those stock options are fair market value of the company. We have a third party that prices the company won two times times a year and they can buy those stock options if they so choose, which is a heavily discounted rate.

Yeah, and it's a private company. It's a private company, so it's not like you can sell it. We can buy it back from you, but you cannot sell it on the open market. So based off of your level, you get a certain amount of shares and you can buy those shares while you're here or if you ever quit and or get fired, you have a window in which you could buy those shares. So things don't work out. Fine. The standard for our company is a four-year cycle of vesting with a one-year cliff, meaning you have to be with us for at least a year to get your first 25% of that allocation of shares. Got it. And so this also is good for you because it helps you retain your employees.

Is that right? Absolutely. I definitely know when people start exercising their shares, I'm always like, hello, to happy. Are you about to leave? Are you okay? But generally, we see people exercise their shares. You know, if they've transitioned, we see that take place after the fact people don't generally exercise during the time that they're at the company because there's really no reason to. But in the event that we sell the company, that means that everybody who has shares gets a check.

Even if you were part of our vision and mission four years ago, and I think that's beautiful. That is awesome. I want to look into that. It sounds really cool. So talk to us about how Blavety has evolved over the years because it started as a newsletter and I went on your website and I was like, wow, this is like, there's a lot going on here. So what are the types of things that you do today?

What's your business model? Yeah. So Blavety today, we've got 200 employees. We're fully remote all over the country. We have two divisions. So really two separate groups of leaders. One is our Black and media group. Black and media group is the original mission of Black and media brands that speak to our communities and then we work with advertisers who want to authentically

reach those communities. We have big clients, Walmart, MasterCard, Toyota, etc. that advertise with us. And we have online content and all the good things. We also have a publisher network where we work with multicultural publishers that are independent or smaller than us who don't have the same sales team or ad infrastructure, who want to work with the McDonald's or Toyota or other really incredible partners and run their ad operations and monetization for them. Amazing. Sounds like we're doing really some similar stuff. We are. And then our second business, which is called Affertuck and Talent Infusion,

is really focused on talent acquisition and diversity in the tech space. And it's separate from media because ultimately what we're trying to do is increase the speed in which people of color are able to get jobs and increase the pipeline of talent that stays in tech and stays at these big companies.

And so we have a huge conference called Affertech, typically in November, and we have memberships and communities as well as a SaaS product behind the scenes. That is for corporations to get access to those talent pools year round. So let's stick on this topic of diversity. You say diversity must be a true company value. How do you make sure that you have a diverse workplace? What are some of make sure that you have a diverse workplace? What are some of the things that you do? A couple of things. One is first you have to have higher people

that are diverse. And when I say diverse, I don't just mean black people. I mean truly a diverse set of people across interest groups, religions, political interests, particularly if you're building a product that is for a diverse set of consumers. The reason for this and there's a million studies on it, but basically diverse groups come up with better answers. And diverse groups come up with better profits, and that's where we're in business. That's where we are business people. We want profits.

So once you hire people, then you have to retain them, which is really, really hard for a lot of companies. It's been all this money to get you. And then when you get there, you're like, I don't want to work here. This is not what you sold me, because there's no diversity at the top. And so decisions that are passed through

are inconsistent with what they talked about versus how it's actually applied through their workforce, whether that's pay equity, whether that's access to opportunities and mentorship, whether that's even feedback. Recently, I just read a research study that showed that if you're a woman or a person of color, the type of feedback, the vocabulary of feedback that you get is very generic. Versus if you're a male or a wider Asian male, get very specific feedback, which allows you to get better. So we're just widening the gaps.

So diversity has an inclusion and equity have to be looked at at every single part of your company along the way. And then ultimately, I do think it's important that at the top of these companies, your board, your investors, the people who are really making the big decisions need to have inclusion and diversity as a part of their own values. Because it does make a difference.

I mean, in these boardrooms, I advise big companies, I advise PepsiCo, I advise American airlines. These decisions are made in the boardrooms. So you've got to have that. And I know that to attract better talent, you say that you celebrate success. And this is a great way for you to attract diverse talent. Can you tell us what you mean by that? Yeah, so at our own company, we really try to showcase the incredible success of our employees. So if you look at our corporate branding, you look at our corporate social media profiles,

you're not going to see a picture of me every five seconds. It's not called Morgan to bond company. It is a corporation and I want to make sure that the work of the people who are working at this company are acknowledged. That's another piece of data that we see often is that women and people of color in the workplace feel underappreciated and underappappreciated certainly financially, of course, but also, just generally they feel like they do in a lot of invisible labor that's not acknowledged.

And so we try to encourage companies and even within our own company, create programs like quarterly programs where we acknowledge employees who are doing really good work. We have peer recognition programs so that you can acknowledge someone you enjoyed working on a project with and they really saw the great thing that happened with a client and they were quick and they were awesome and they were so happy. How did you, you know, so we tried to create all these different moments for verbal and

financial affirmations of people's success and I think companies have started to do that. You start to hear about employee engagement. You start to see these teams, chief culture officers. I mean, there's all these different titles in the tech world. But ultimately, it's about engagement. How engaged is your diverse workforce? And I know you're also a proponent

of anonymous employee surveys. Ooh, child, yes. Because, and I wasn't used to be not like terrified of them. I used to be terrified of anonymous employee surveys. Ooh, child, yes, because, and I wasn't, you used to be not like terrified of them. I used to be terrified of anonymous surveys. I was like, oh, no, if I wanna know what they have to say about us. But what I've learned is anonymous surveys

frequent anonymous surveys, and I think that's key. If you do one one two year, you're gonna get a bunch of stuff. But if you do these often, and it becomes a part of your culture, then people start to feel psychologically safe to share things and things that maybe would be difficult for them to tell their direct manager at Boston. They don't know how to talk about it. And you can identify trends much easier. And in larger corporations, I think creating safe pathways for communication for everyone is really important.

And I say everyone because the other thing that we've noticed is that when you create systems and tools and cultures that benefit people of color, benefit women, the rest of the group also gets unintended benefits as well. It's just like maternity leave, right? When you have maternity leave, that was great, but parental leave is better because it actually benefits the whole family unit and the birthing person or close captions. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I'm like, I don't know what these people are saying. Let me turn on close captions. Close captions use to only be for people who could not hear. But now we all benefit from closed captions, right? So this idea that we got to go out of our way

for diversity and all this stuff, I'm like, yeah, but it's gonna make it better. That's such a good point. I love that. Okay, so let's talk about this corporate mission that you have, which is to advance black happiness. How do you define black happiness? And what do you define black happiness

and what do you feel like you've achieved already on that front? Yeah, we spend a lot of time on this mission. It's one that's really ambitious, which is important. When you think about happiness, it's hard to be happy when you don't have some fundamentals in place. Access to safe work environment, access to housing, access to information, quality of treatment, access to and safety in your community.

Right, there's all these different things that are barrier to even being happy. And we wanted to start with the top and our work our way there. I think that you can find moments of joy and happiness and everything that you do. And we wanted to make sure that the work that we are doing every single day in our company is striving towards that.

So when we're evaluating articles or social media posts, I asked the team, is this going to do harm? Is this going to be neutral or is this going to be a positive impact or happiness? And they have to think about that question. And sometimes the answer is like, I think it's just neutral. Then we don't really need to do it. You know, if it's going to be, you have no impact, why are we wasting our time? I really encourage companies and entrepreneurs, it's their building their missions and their

values to be ambitious, we're enough that as you get larger, as you become bigger than you ever thought you could be, and you've got all these people working for you, can they use and leverage your mission and values in their work every single day as just a gut check? We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. Calling all dog owners, when your dog truly loves their food, you can tell from a peppy step to a healthy coat, your dog feels their best when they're eating well. That's why you should

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Young and profitors, I've been an entrepreneur now for over four years. That means that I've got team members now that have been with me for four years and have accumulated a lot of knowledge in their brains. And I've got a lot of knowledge in my brain from all the things we've done over the years. And you may think that sounds great, but as I grow wiser as an entrepreneur, I actually realize that's really dangerous. What if one of us gets hit by a bus? How will the work get done if there's no proper SOPs or if the team's not cross-trained? One of our biggest initiatives at YAP in 2024 is to implement cross-training. So I try to articulate 360 with their free 30-day trial and I absolutely love this platform

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That's articulate.com-360. So you grew this company. You've got over 200 employees, which is super impressive. And as a diverse minority woman, you probably didn't have many leadership experiences before you started your company. Same thing with me. Like, it's like every leadership position that I've ever had was like, I put myself in that nobody ever put me in a leadership position. It was like an organization I started or whatever, right?

So talk to us about some of the challenges you had as a leader over the years, just trying to be a good leader to this company without really much experience leading. Yeah, I mean, I'm in a bit of a jillion mistakes. I'm sure I'm making mistakes every day now. I think what I've learned to accept and embrace is that I am on a journey where all I can do is control my ability to take input feedback and then address it. And address it head on, right? There were times in my life, as the leader of this company where I was avoiding, right? And address it head on. I made all these different excuses. This is sexist. These are expectations that they wouldn't have for a male CEO.

My employees would never say this stuff to a male CEO. This would never happen to a white man, media company that had the same statistics that I had. These advertisers would never give us these prices, right? I mean, I made all these different excuses and all these different things. But at the end of the day, I'm still who I am. Whether those things are true or not true. So it's not really I learned. It's not

really productive for me to spend any energy there and to very quickly move myself toward a place of where it's in my control, what's in my power, and how can I make an impact or improve the things that are in my control, my power. So I took classes. I hired executive coaches and read a lot of books. I read tons of books. I listened to podcasts. I'm on a million and one newsletters. I mean, I've just made learning and learning how to be

a better leader at part of my engine every single day. And I have really close advisors who can give me feedback and call me out and say, I don't care if you're a black green tall short Morgan, that was a bad decision. That was bad decision. And this is how you need to fix it. And just really having a tribe of people who I can go to and trust

that are invested enough in me and invest enough in the company. And that's my board. Those are my co-founders. Typically, they're not strangers I meet off the street. I mean, it's like people who have really been with me a long time and understand the true vision of what I'm trying to accomplish. And that would be my advice to anyone is like,

sometimes when people are looking for mentors or advisors, they make this list that's all the way up here. You know, I would love to have Cheryl Sandberg as my advisor. Or I would love to have Elon Musk as my advisor. And I'm like, really? Like, you know, that's not really, really realistic. Yeah. It's real.

Let's get real. But who has been rocking with you for a long time? Who is successful, maybe in a different industry? Who you can have quarterly meetings with, or quarterly lunches, or dinners with? And that's how I've been able to accelerate, I think, my growth, my personal development, and also pay it forward to other people through my own advisor ship or my own podcast, so that along the way, I can be that for other people. Well, I have to ask you, I don't have a board.

I always think about starting a board and then I just get too busy and I never start a board, right? I have like some people with their toes in, right? But don't have a formal board. If you have a formal board, how is it structured? I do have a formal board. When you take venture capital after a certain stage, you have to have a formal board because they take 10 to 20% of their company and they want to watch you.

They have the rights to information. I have a board meeting coming up soon. So it's the people who invested who are on the board? That's right. So it's the biggest investors take the seats. And it's typically an odd number. So my board is small. It's three people.

Some boards are seven, some boards are nine, I mean, it can, some boards are huge. And we vote on the most important thing. So if I want to do an acquisition, I have to get board approval. They set my salary, right? I mean, I work for the board. I am the chairperson of the board. I'm also CEO, which are really two separate roles. So, you know, there may be a time where we hire a CEO. The CEO reports to the board, right? And the chairperson's ahead of the board. So, I have double roles, but at some point,

probably won't say me I CEO. And I'll still control the board, but that will be a different phase of life for me. But basically, that's how it's set up. And I recommend that people consider, even if it's an informal board, you don't have to have one with voting rights and all these different things, because learning to organize your information on a quarterly basis and keep performance indicators for your company

makes you a better leader. And it also helps your leaders become better leaders. So the people reporting into you know that you need to go and justify these decisions or these hires or these budgets every 90 days. And that has made us a better company. It has made us a better workplace. It has made us a more equitable workplace because everything is clear and written down. There's none of this like just because she wants to. I like it. No. Yeah. And I think that has been really helpful as to why we've been able to grow and mature so quickly. My last question for you on entrepreneurship. I know from me starting my own company as a side hustle

and then it growing so fast you had a very similar experience. My relationships really took a toll, especially like the first four years of all of this. Talk to us about that. How much did you have to sacrifice personally? And then now that you've got your feet on the ground, how do you prioritize your life with entrepreneurship? I mean, you know, like I really do feel like we were living parallel universes.

It's brutal. I was single for a long time or had terrible situations and just I wasn't a great partner. There's no way. I'm going to work in 12, 16 hour days. I don't have capacity for your stuff. I barely have capacity for my stuff. And then the type of people that I was dating or in relationship with, then you might have dating people who also have a bunch of stuff going on because that's the only way that you feel okay. Yeah. Right? So I had a lot of tragic situations, but I think eventually I had to make a decision on, do you ever want to have a partner in life? Do you ever want to be healthy and not have to meditate for an hour to work because you've got so much going on. I used to wake up in the middle of the night with my laptop and just turn over and

just just just take it. So that was not sustainable for me. It was not the life that I wanted when I looked into the future. And it took a lot of hard work and intentionality and behavior shifts to get me to the place where I am now. I physically left LA. I live in Nashville, Tennessee because part of it was the physical environment. It was one that was really hard for me to say no to all the things that were coming my way. I wanted to be closer with my family. I wanted to have Sunday dinners with my parents. I wanted to be slightly more normal. Yeah.

And I wanted to put myself potentially in a position to find a partner. And if I wanted a family at some point, to be able to have a community and a culture which that family was going to wind up Not with my 12 year old doing drugs in LA, but somebody who'd be like, oh, yes I don't even know what kind of a suit. I mean, I don't think that's really the reality for these kids these days But like just a little bit more innocent. Yeah, yeah, then things going on in New York and LA. Yeah

You see a lot in these spaces and It wasn't easy. People thought I was nuts when I left LA. I mean, it's like, how can you be so successful and have all these things, all these employees and stuff for you to live in like Tennessee? It's made a sense. But it does make sense to me. And it's worked out. Yeah. And nowadays, as an entrepreneur, you can be just online crushing it. You don't need to be in physical spaces, at least all the time anymore. So you have a book coming out. Tell us about this book, what is it called, what is it going to be about, when is it

come out? Yeah, so I'm finishing writing it now. The book comes out next year, next fall, and it's all about helping other ambitious people define life and their success for themselves. And even if you're good, I'm good, but I'm not great. I wanna get to the point where I'm living every week in my purpose. And that might mean I'm a stay-at-home mom

and I'm doing pickup and drop off and I'm investing in my hobbies and I'm living a beautiful life. That's great. It could mean I'm starting a media company and I'm growing this thing and I'm trying to figure out how to navigate all these choices I need to make.

But the real person that is for somebody who aspires to have a vision of the life that they want to live and then they're willing to make some tough temporary choices like you and I have to get there and basically showing them how. Well, awesome. I can't wait to have you back on to talk about that book. So we'll have you back on in six months or so when you're done

and the book is coming out. Thank you so much. I end my show with two questions that I ask everyone. So the first one, what is one actionable thing our young and profitors can do today to become more profitable tomorrow. Invest in yourself, whether that's books, audible, whether that is investing in the stock market, so you have some safety net, whatever it may be, invest in yourself. You're going to get paid so much more dividends if you invest in yourself before material things. if you invest in yourself before material things.

I totally agree. Getting as many skills as possible is so key, especially in 2023 and beyond. And what is your secret to profiting in life? And this can go beyond business, beyond financial, beyond the topic of today's episode. The key to profiting in life is, oh, so many things. I think that my core key to profiting in life is, ooh, so many things. I think that my core key to profiting in life is to be happy and joyful in peace in my everyday. To be totally, fully, like, I love today. Not always wishing and wanting for more. Yes, putting in the work during the day, to get to my more, but being

totally satisfied if I ran this day back every day, I'm good. Yeah, it's so true satisfaction is so important to happiness. And then we're just like always chasing something else and never being happy. So I really like that you said that more again, where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do? You can listen to my podcast, the journey podcast, where I talk about all the things, all my challenges, all the things I fuck up out of all the time. And then all my fun friends along the way. You can follow me on TikTok if you want the crazy weird me. And you can follow me on Instagram, of course, if you want the more curated version, such as Instagram at these days.

Awesome. Well, stick all those links in the show notes. I'll make sure that everybody follows you. Morgan, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I was so inspired by today's conversation with Morgan. So many of us watch current events on the news or as they unfold online, but so few of us stop what we're doing and change the course of our lives and careers so we can help do something about it.

Starting her business and eventual media empire from scratch meant that Morgan had to learn some things the hard way, but by doing that she has a wealth of wisdom to share with other aspiring entrepreneurs. Here are some of Morgan's insights that I really appreciate it. First, she said that as an entrepreneur, you need discipline. Yes, you need to be focused.

You need to work hard, sure, but it's not just about brute force, as she puts it. You can't just hustle your way to success. It's about access and opportunities and finding the networks and other people who can help you get ahead. And sometimes those opportunities will not be available in places like Silicon Valley, and you have to be creative and find a new way forward.

I also liked how honest Morgan was about the downside of taking venture capital and other outside funds. She said it was one of the great ironies of entrepreneurship. The more money you raise as a founder of the great ironies of entrepreneurship. The more money you raise as a founder, the less power you really have. And also the more responsibilities you have to your investors and backers, those who become your bosses in some ways. But there's other ways to navigate this power dynamic. Morgan likes to ask her donors for more help, to introduce her to their boards, to other investors, to other people who might want to hear her message as well as want to help her out.

And by helping her out, they also increase the likelihood that their investment will bear fruit. That's all for today. Thank you for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting Podcast. And speaking of bearing fruit, if you enjoyed this episode with Morgan DeBon and you love this podcast, then why don't you help us out and invest in us? To do this, you don't need to give us a million dollars or introduce me to your board, rather just share this episode with your friends

and family. Text the link to this episode right now and tell them they might enjoy the show. Or why not drop us a five star review on Apple Podcast. Rating and reviewing is a great way to invest in our success and ensure that we can help you with yours. You can find me on Instagram at YappwithHalla or on LinkedIn by searching my name, it's Hala Taha. Before we close, I did want to give a big shout out to my incredible Yapp production team. You guys are awesome. Thank you for all that you do behind the scenes. This is your host, Hala Taha, aka the podcast princess, signing off. you