Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Nathan Chan: The Founders Blueprint | Entrepreneurship | E183

Episode Date: August 15, 2022

How do you build a career that is fulfilling, both for you and for the world? You build it for yourself! Founder & CEO of Foundr, Nathan Chan, wasn’t a driven person for most of his life. He started off in a 9-5 IT job that he didn’t enjoy. After a life-changing trip to Europe, he decided that life was too short to work a job that he hated. He started Foundr as a side hustle with only $3,000 and used his day job to fuel its growth. In this episode, Nathan talks about how he pivoted into entrepreneurship and cultivated a mindset of growth, motivation, and humility in the process. Hala and Nathan discuss the realities of entrepreneurship and how to combine logic and intuition when making decisions.  Topics Include: -Nathan’s lack of motivation early in life  -What helped Nathan develop his mindset?  -His first life coach, Tony  -How did Nathan come up with the idea for Foundr?  -Foundr’s main focus  -Nathan’s desire to become more masculine and step into his manhood -Nathan’s life-changing trip to Europe  -When did Nathan realize he wanted to leave his corporate job?  -The steps Nathan took to leave his accounting job and get a job in marketing -How Nathan’s deep dive into marketing led him to start Foundr  -How Foundr has evolved over time  -Nathan’s experience getting sued for trademark infringement  -How did Nathan stay motivated during Foundr’s slow growth?  -The reality of entrepreneurship  -The importance of learning from experienced people  -What does Jeff Bezos want from life?  -What leadership challenges has Nathan faced?  -Nathan’s natural ability to stay humble  -How to combine logic and intuition when making decisions  -The first steps to starting a business  -And other topics… Nathan Chan is the founder and CEO of Foundr, a global media and education company for entrepreneurs. Nathan is also the publisher of Foundr magazine. Aside from the magazine, Foundr offers podcasts, courses, articles, and free training to help aspiring business leaders navigate the world of entrepreneurship. Millions of people engage with Foundr’s content every month.  Through Foundr, Nathan has interviewed highly-influential people like Seth Godin, Mark Cuban, and Richard Branson.  Sponsored By: Black Pearl Mail - Turn your sign offs into sign ups with blackpearlmail.com  Sabio - Go to sabio.la/yap and save $125 on your total bootcamp cost!   Bambee - Visit bambee.com/profiting to learn more Faherty - Head to fahertybrand.com/yap and use code YAP at checkout to get 20% OFF! The Jordan Harbinger Show - Check out jordanharbinger.com/start for some episode recommendations Resources Mentioned: Foundr’s Website: https://foundr.com  Founder Plus: https://foundr.com/membership  Nathan’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan/?hl=en  Nathan’s LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan  Connect with Young and Profiting: Hala’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/     Hala’s Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/yapwithhala/     Hala’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/yapwithhala  Clubhouse: https://www.clubhouse.com/@halataha   Website: https://www.youngandprofiting.com/  Text Hala: https://youngandprofiting.co/TextHala or text “YAP” to 28046

You're listening to Yap, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halitaha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession, or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of ex-FBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and best-selling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, how to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit this ability.

button because you'll love it here at Young and Profiting Podcast. Did you know, despite spending one-third of our lives at work, a majority of people don't feel emotionally connected to what they do? That's right, young improfitors. A Gallup study from 2018 found that over half of all U.S. workers are not engaged with their jobs. So then how do you find a career that fires you up and actually excites you? Well, I'd say the easiest way is to build it yourself. This week on Yap, we're talking to a man with one of the most inspiring side hustler turned entrepreneur success stories of our generation.

Nathan Chan, CEO and founder, a founder, a global media and education company for entrepreneurs. Nathan is a perfect example of somebody who wasn't satisfied with their career until they started to truly take hold of it by building their own brand. After noticing the lack of online resources for aspiring entrepreneurs, Nathan started founder as a side hustle. And after several years of grit and consistency, founder went from sidegig to a leading business digital publication in media empire. In this episode, Nathan and I talk about the trials and tribulations of entrepreneurship, his desire to step into manhood as a young adult and how he leveraged men's work to enhance his masculinity and cultivate his unstoppable

mindset. And we also learn how founder evolved over the years from slow growing side hustle to media Empire, and we hear how mentors and asking for advice helped Nathan immensely along his journey. If you want to get inspired to do what you love and find a career, you'll never get bored of. Then turn up the volume and get ready to listen, learn, and profit from the incredible Nathan Chan. Hey, Nathan, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast. Thanks so much for having me, Hela. It's an absolute pleasure to be. I'm super happy to have you on the show.

You are widely respected as one of the brightest minds of your generation. to quickly introduce you to our listeners, you are the founder and CEO of the platform founder, a global media and education company that produces books, online courses, and magazines for entrepreneurs. And millions of people consume founders' content every month. And the magazine covers have been blessed by the likes of Richard Branson, Mark Cuban, and so many more. And so, Nathan, we do tons of research on this podcast. And I actually learned that you were pretty average for most of your life. You really didn't have the drive and motivation that you're known for today. And I do want to spend some time on this because I think it's going to really help a lot of

my listeners who may be feeling stuck right now. And you blossomed into the entrepreneur that you are in the last 10 years or so of your life. And that's because you found your true passion with founders, something that was fine and enjoyable for you. And that fueled you to work hard and make something of yourself. And in fact, in the past, you've said that your only success in life has been founder. And that's because you were obsessed with it and you got so good at it and you became successful. So I learned you had bad grades and even your mom wished that you had the same drive as other kids that you know. So talk to us about your teenage years, why you were so complacent and what was wrong with your mindset back then? Yeah, you really have done your research. It's awesome.

Look, growing up, I never really got good grades. I never really tried. I never really had much ambition. And when I did try, I never did very well, to be honest with you. I kind of scraped through, got into university. And yeah, throughout life, I just kind of drifted. I was just drifting for a very, very, very long time. And I got a job after finishing that degree. It was an average job, like in a corporate job working at an accounting firm in IT support. And it wasn't really what I wanted to do.

Like it didn't excite me. I really wanted to work in marketing. And I remember even applying to transfer to a marketing degree. agree and I couldn't even move across because I didn't get the grades that I needed. So I was just kind of coasting through life, to be honest with you, Hala. And I think to answer your question, what really kind of helped me develop my mindset, well, I guess I really discovered personal growth. And I wanted to become a person that had a life that I was proud of.

And I started to do a lot of deep work on myself, to be honest with you. This is even before I started founder. I met this person on the train. He was like, his name's Tony. He's an incredible guy. I still speak to him. We're catching up in the next couple of weeks. I haven't spoken.

Oh, wow. We catch up once every year or so. And I met him on the train and like he was kind of like a life coach, like just on the side for fun. And he went through a process with me to help me work out what I truly want from life. And I started going down this pathway, I guess, of personal growth and self-taxie. development. And at first it was just to do work that I enjoy and find work I enjoy. And that's kind of what led me to founder. And I realized that there was a massive gap in the marketplace 10 years ago

to produce content and to build a platform that really helps a lot of founders and entrepreneurs in the sense that it's so hard to know, like what to do, how to start, who to trust, what to follow. and I started building this platform for me, somebody that honestly just wanted to find work that I enjoyed, wanting to distill what it actually took to start or build a successful business online specifically because I started hearing stories about friends of friends doing it and this wasn't as big as it is now,

but I just wanted to find out. And that's how I started. Like as an investigative journalist, I did it on the side, found it so much more than that now, but it's still a premise, like how the hell are these people doing it and then us sharing it with the world? And now we do that really, like our biggest focus is in our online education platform and our new product Founder Plus, which is our All Access membership, which really gives you access to legit founders that have actually done it, like people that you hear are doing X, Y, and Z,

and we actually work with them to break it down. Like, we're working away of all these incredible people that we've interviewed on the podcast to actually give back further and lay out their frameworks and blueprints on our platform. Like we know we interviewed the co-founder of Square about a year ago, Jim McElvey, incredible interview. And he talked about how he started Square and how he comes up with business ideas. He's teaching on our platform now is, of course, coming out soon. So like, we're going to continue to build this alternative MBA, which is insanely cost affordable for people, but going back to your original question, how did I develop my mindset? It just started brick by brick. It wasn't a thing that was just bang. Now I'm just kind

of person that is so ambitious, so optimistic and a big believer in what I was building and, you know, it was unstoppable. It was built over time and through doing deep work around truly working out who I am as a person. What do I want from life? Yeah. Something that I found out that was really interesting is that you specifically wanted to learn how to be more of a man. And I thought this was so interesting because actually I just signed a podcaster to my network. Her name is Michelle Daff and she's got a podcast called Feminine Impression and she talks about all about how to be a feminine woman. And when I was listening to her content like evaluating her for my network, I realized that I'm very girly, but I have very masculine energy.

And I was like, wow, like maybe like some things didn't work out in my life because I have very masculine energy. And then I heard you talking say that you have feminine energy or you used to have more feminine energy. And actually, most of my listeners are male. And so I thought this was very interesting to talk about men's work, what you did to study about men's work, how it improved your life. And why you thought you needed to do that work in the first place. It's just super interesting to me, so I'd love to hear about it. Yeah, sure thing. So I started reading books.

The first book that really changed the game for me is the way of the superior man. And it was just a recommendation that I read about. There was a really, really, really, really solid book for men and women to understand men. And that was a really incredible book for me, just to understand my biology and why I am the way I am. And it kind of took me on this path to kind of live some of the principles in that book around kind of the purpose of a man is to kind of find your life purpose and to really focus on that. So I was looking for my life purpose. I didn't know it would be found out, but I fell into it.

And then I never wanted to let go. But then for whatever reason, if I'm being 100% honest with you, how like I'm not very tall, I'm not very, you know, buff. I do work out, but like I'm not like extremely buff. And I guess I'm a lot more of a soft-hearted kind of person. So for whatever reason, I don't feel this anymore. But I felt like I wasn't, for whatever reason, I felt that I wasn't a developed man or I didn't see myself as a man. I saw myself more as a boy.

I don't know why, but I just did. Maybe it was a maturity thing as well. So I discovered this world where you could do workshops. or like on men's work, right? You can Google, like, where your local city is and stuff. And it's incredible. Like, it's extremely challenging, extremely confronting. But there are all sorts of cool retreats and all sorts of things you can do. I did that for a while. And it really helped me develop. Now, it wasn't an immediate shift, but it just gave me more clarity around who I am, who I want to be, and where I want to go in life.

Yeah. So I hope that answers your question. It does. And it's super interesting to me because I've never had anyone on the podcast where this has come up. And I think it is really important to embrace your masculine energy or your feminine energy and to know like which one you have and what your strengths and weaknesses are in general. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. Yeah, we have a super unique company culture. We're all about obsessive excellence. We even call ourselves scrappy hustlers. And I'm really picky when it comes to my employees. My team is growing every day. We're 60 people all over the world. And when it comes to hiring, I no longer feel overwhelmed

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Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash profiting. Go to Shopify.com slash profiting. That's Shopify.com slash profiting. Yeah, fam, hear your first. This new year was Shopify by your side. So another big moment in your life that I think influenced you to go down this path of entrepreneurship, it was when you took a Europe trip. And I believe this was in your 20s. And you

realized that you hated your IT job and you realized that life was too short to do something that you hated for the rest of your life. So let's talk about how you started founder as a side hustle. How did you get the idea? What was the initial concept? And how has it evolved over the years? Yeah, my 20s. I'm 35 now. So like 24, I did a Europe trip. I remember 23, 23, 24. I did a Europe trip. So it was Euro 2010. And our first trip, I went with my best friend who has unfortunately passed away about five, six years ago now. But we did a Europe trip and it was incredible. It was eight weeks.

Like it was life changing and I was just having so much fun, not a care of the world. And I was working at this accounting firm. And that was kind of like there was this extreme dread that I didn't want to go back. This just dreaded feeling. I can't. I can't. The word dread is the best word to describe it, but it was excruciating that thought of going back. And not because I'm bashing like doing IT support, I want to be super clear here, just for whatever reason it wasn't for me. It was not for me. And that's when I knew I had to make a change. And I'd been doing men's work. I'd still been doing men's work when I even

got back. And that's when I knew, I was like, you know what, I've got to make a change here. So what I did was I went back and studied. I went back and studied a Masters of Marketing. And off the back of that, I remember even I put myself out there and I got this lady to help me write my resume. And I said, I'm going to get a new job. And I said, I want to work in marketing. And she said, well, look, let's try and get you at a big company.

Because if you go into a big company, hopefully you can transfer across. So I got a job at this incredible company called Intrepid Travel. It's one of the largest adventure travel companies in the world. and their head office is based in Melbourne. And I got a job there. I left the accounting firm. And I was loving life, Heller. Like, it was so much fun, just being around the people.

And the work was okay. You know what? The work was okay. And for a little while, while I was studying marketing and kind of working hard, I was okay with the fact that I was in IT. But it didn't last forever. And very quickly, after a year or so, doing that degree, it took me two years, took me two years of night school to get my,

my masters of marketing. About a year in, that's when I started to go, you know what, I want to move into marketing. I want to do this marketing thing. And so I'd say, yeah, look, I tried to apply. I'd say, yeah, probably around getting close to that two years, I tried to apply for marketing jobs, especially internally within the company. And no one would hire me. I went for three different internal jobs. And basically, off the back of that huller, I started looking externally for a marketing job. Even though I love the culture, I love the people, I made it clear that I want to move to marketing. And it's like I'm finishing my degree and I've spent a lot of money. Like, would it cost me 50, 60, 70 grand on heck's debt to do my marketing degrees. I just wanted

to do that. And I couldn't get a job still. I went for job interviews, all sorts of things. And I remember somebody telling me, never forget, I asked for feedback and he said to me, oh, look, it would be really cool if you had some sort of website or a project that you could show how passionate you are about marketing. And so then I started going down this pathway of learning online marketing and realizing how could I mesh my passions for technology and IT because I was actually good at it with marketing. And that's what I went down this pathway of trying to understand marketing and online marketing.

And then I stumbled across this idea to launch your own digital magazine and this software you could purchase to help you do it. And I said, that would be a cool side project. Let's do it. I put $2,000 on my credit card and bought the software. I was making only $50,000 at the time. And it was the best investment I ever made in myself. Because then I started to build this magazine.

And at first the magazine was going to be in horse racing with my best friend, my housemate at the time. And he got a job and he couldn't do it. And so I was really interested in entrepreneurship. So I started once, and that's how. how it started. As I said, I started hearing these stories around how people were starting and building these incredible online businesses and working full time. So I started interviewing people. And that's when I realized I need to share this with the world. Like this information is gold.

And that's been the premise of founder ever since. And then over time, as I launched the magazine, I was even taking it to other job interviews, even in an internal role at Intrepid and they still didn't hire me, even though they thought it was impressive. And I tell your listeners, that because I still didn't know I was going to build what founder is today. And then as time went on, we started to kind of, I guess, produce a lot more content. So I went full time on it eventually, still producing the magazine, started to do the podcast, started to build a platform. And then we started to leverage that content more, spin it out more, all the stuff that you know and do well, Heller. And then five years ago, I realized there was an opportunity in the online education space.

That's been a big focus of ours and still is. And that's really kind of the core of what founder is now. We really are an ed tech business. And we have close to 25 courses on our platform. We're launching now one a month. And yeah, we're trying to build like, you know, the largest, most comprehensive online business school in the world, which is a cost affordable alternative to an MBA.

So that's kind of us. But that's how it evolved. I love it. I got like chills while you were talking because it's just like a sweet story. And I feel like the best companies are the ones that start so organically. And yeah, my company started in the same way. It was like just a little idea that I had. And then I got a team and then it turned into an agency and then it turned into a network.

And like it just like kind of kept layering up. And it's very similar to your story. Like you were just curious. You were dabbling in your passion. You wanted to learn. You wanted to help people. And then you just kept layering it on until you like built this. empire. And so congratulations. It's so cool. Such a great story. And from my understanding,

you started in 2013, right? That's when you founded it. Yeah, that's when I launched the first edition, March 5th, 2013, made $5.0.50. Amazing. And actually, founder wasn't the first name, right? You had a different name and you almost got sued right in the beginning. Did get sued. So when I launched it, it was called something else and was sued for trade mark infringement by one of the biggest business magazines in the States. And so changed the name. And in fact, the person that was like a lawyer and ex-lawyer at Intrepid, the company I was working at helped me work through it.

That's a testament to that company and just how good the people are. Because I became friends with the CEO and the founder, one of the co-founders. And I still speak to him to this day. And I said, hey, this is what I'm working on. I'd love to work in marketing. And then when I got the email that I was going to be. sued. For trademark infringement, I sent it across and he was like, oh, he need to speak to Tom and then Tom and I worked it out, we just changed the name to founder. And that's why it's

founder without the E. Even though, to be honest, and it's so cool, we own the word founder, right, in many aspects, like, because there's no actual founder brand with correct spelling, so it's arse. Oh. If anybody did create a founder brand with correct spelling, like, because we've used that, it's of so long, like it's, so the word founder is, so, synonymous amongst entrepreneurship. It's actually pretty special. Yeah. And I think it's a great name. I don't know what the name was before, but it's a great name nonetheless. And so most people would have stopped in their tracks right there. Oh, I'm getting sued for my sad hustle that makes no money. I should just hang my hat up, call it a day. But you kept going. And even though it was pretty

slow gross from my understanding in the beginning, I think your first month you made like 80 bucks a month or something. So how did you keep going? How did you stay motivated? So I never forget the first interview I did with the lady called Lin Huang outsourcing Angel. She was the only person that would get back to me to do an interview. So I remember after that interview, even though I was so nervous, I felt so invigorated. So much incredible energy. I felt so pumped after it. And I remember seeing my fiance and being like, this is where I was born to do.

This is awesome. I love it. So that was incredible. And then also this idea of not letting others down in the sense that people were subscribed to the magazine and they were owed another magazine edition next month. So I just kept going, Hala. I just kept showing up. And that's going to be the same with Founder Plus. Like it is going to be the most next level online entrepreneurial platform and education platform for founders.

And now we've made that commitment one course a month. We'll just keep showing up. and it's going to be next level. Like, it's only the beginning. And that's my drive. That's why I kept going. Even though I wasn't making any money, I loved it and I didn't want to let others down.

Yeah, something that I do want you to touch on is the fact that it was fun for you. And it sparked something inside of you that you never experienced previously. Like we had mentioned, you were kind of stagnant. Like, you were successful, but not at the levels that you are now, obviously.

So why is it important to, have fun with what you're doing, to do what you love, especially when it comes to staying motivated and driven. What's simple. Life's too short to not do work that you enjoy. And I'm not going to sit here and tell everybody that entrepreneurship is like all fun and joy. It's not.

The reality is the highs are high and the lows are low and it is tough. You will get punched in the face many times. But it is the most rewarding. awarding, incredible experience that I wish everyone to experience in their life. Because entrepreneurs are the ones that are shaping the future of the world. Everything that you see around you right now, these headphones, this microphone, the whiteboard or the poster behind you, like, these are created, these are businesses that are creating these things.

And it's incredible to be able to create something and to share. shape something of your own, to call it your own, and to be able to make an impact in the world. And that's the funnest thing, even though it is tough sometimes. There are tough, tough times. We talked about being sued. I was sued for trademark infringement and I thought I was going to go bankrupt, Hala. And I never forget one of my mentors at the time. I called him up and told him I was freaking out. And he's like, do you have much money? And I said, no.

And he said, well, heck, it doesn't matter really if you go bankrupt, then does it. You know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, look, the highs are high, the lows are low, but life's too short. That's the short answer. Life's too short to not do work you don't enjoy. I totally agree. And so eventually you did start obtaining some big name interviews at founder. I think a major turning point for your magazine.

was getting interview with billionaire and entrepreneur Richard Branson in your first year. And so I feel like this entrepreneurship game is all about leverage. And so I bet you leveraged Richard's name to get next big person after the next big person. Because all you need is one yes. And then you can just keep leveraging that yes. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, well, I think it's about building the brand. How do you build brand?

How do you build trust? How do you build authority? And thankfully, sir Richard agreed to do an interview. with us and I made that magazine edition free and I led with that magazine edition because it was our best one. And I think that's a lesson for everybody, right? If you're in the content business, how can you give away your best stuff for free? Like, wait, we found a plus we're charging, right? But like, what are we doing even still? What are we doing to give away some of our best stuff for free to give people an experience? So, look, we got an interview with Richard Branson and that was

just sheer hustle and determination. And what was key to that hull up, and this is a lesson for all of your listeners, is I found somebody that had a magazine that was getting interviews with well-known people. Like they got interviews with for their vegan magazine like Bono and Jamie Oliver and all these incredible people. And I wanted to find out how they were doing it. And they showed me the blueprint. And I think that is so key. And that. That is the ethos of founder. How can you learn from people that have already done it and get their frameworks, get their blueprints?

How can you shortcut? And that's what we're all about, right? Yes, I'm a big believer in the long cut. But the best thing you can do if you have a problem is to find somebody that's already done it and learn from them. You want to know how to start an e-commerce business, learn from somebody that's done it like five times. Why do it yourself?

Why work out how to do it yourself? learn from somebody, even if you learn one thing, the amount of money that you will make from that will be incredible. If you want to know how to build a SaaS company, learn from someone that's build a billion dollar business. Like if you want to know how to run YouTube ads, learn from someone that spent tens of millions of dollars on the platform. And that's the whole thing. That's what we're big about at Found out. That's what I'm big about. And that's how I do what I do. And that's really kind of like why I believe that what we're building with Founder Plus and founder is so powerful and so important. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.

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Again, that's quickbooks.com slash money. Terms apply. Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments Incorporated, licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. I love that. And I feel like I did want to add to your point. I think a lot of people in the beginning, you're learning from people from books and videos and YouTube and you're leveling up your skills enough so that when you do reach out to that person that you want advice from, they have respect for you because you've done everything that you could up until that point. And now you're asking somebody for feedback for the next steps of the things that aren't necessarily written down. But I do feel like people need to make sure that they do that self-learning

and they continue to be curious and learn on their own. Do you have any thoughts about that? Yeah, look, it's everything. The speed in which your business grows is you as the CEO and the owner of the company is the reflection of your own knowledge and growth. And you need to be able to have an open mind to learning because that is everything, right? As founders, we're always leveling up, we're always learning. Like, I'll give you a great one.

So I interviewed Scooter Broad a few months ago. And he shared that he recently became good friends with Jeff Bezos. And he said something that he wanted to share with our community was that he asked Jeff Bezos, you have everything in the world, you're the richest person in the world. What more could you want from life? And he said, I just want to evolve. I think that is so powerful because we tell ourselves these stories. Haller that all of us, everyone listening, everyone watching right now, we tell herself,

when I make this amount of money, it'll all be good. When this happens, I'll be okay. When this happens, it's going to be amazing. And there's somebody that has everything you could ever want from life in terms of monetary success. And he just wants to evolve. He just wants to learn. He just wants to develop. He just wants to be curious. That's a beautiful story. I love that. Thanks for sharing that. So I have a question for you. At what point did you start getting a team for founder? How long were you working as like a solopreneur? Yeah. So honestly, when I first started the magazine, Hala, I needed to outsource or find contractors to do certain things, just even for the first magazine edition because I'm not a designer. These were just critical investments that I made in building up the product. So I started working with the designer for issue number one, and that was critical. I used to get my mum to help me copy edit and proofread, and I used to get my dad to

help me some of the tech stuff. So I was calling it all favours. And I reckon probably after about a year when I was getting close to basically leaving, so it took me, I think, 12 to, about 14 months to go full time on founder. Around the 12-month stage, that's when I got a copy editor. And that's when I started to work with some other riders, but I had to pay riders as well. I guess you could say I did have a bit of a team ever since the beginning, but just contractors, right? Nothing major.

And then eventually when I went full time, I was playing around with interns for a little bit. That was an interesting experience. And then off the back of that, I eventually hired our first full-time hired JC. not with this anymore, I'd say 2015. So I went full-time mid-2014. So I started early March 2013, went full-time mid-2014,

hired JC probably early 2015. And he was just a content crafter and he wrote content for the website. So that was what, eight years ago, seven, seven years ago. Yeah, and so just curious about what you've learned yourself about yourself now that you're a leader who manages people. Did you ever have any challenges in terms of leading a team? Oh, heaps, right? Like, to be honest, it's only been, I reckon, the past year where I've had to elevate, like, you know, I have the title CEO, but I'm not actually, you know, actually really the CEO.

Like, in the sense that you don't actually do a job of like a CEO of a pub, like, I actually. proper CEO of a mature company. So that's been an interesting journey, right? Like, how do you hold people to account? You know, that's been something that I've been developing. How can you rally and inspire? How do you lead a team of leaders? So, yeah, it's been a big development, right? It's been a big transition, to be honest with you, Huller, like, you know, I have C-suite executives. I've got a chief revenue office. I've got a chief financial office. I've got chief of staff. Yeah, these are people that really kind of very experienced.

It's been an interesting journey. Yeah. And something that I admire about you is your humility, right? Like, you're a really humble leader. I wish I had more of that. I feel like sometimes I may come off like a little arrogant and I have other things that make me a great leader. I can motivate people, inspire people.

I'm passionate. But I wish I had a little bit of your humility. So what's your secret behind that? Is that conscious or are you trying to be humble or is this just like who you are, that's your natural kind of demeanor? I think it's just my natural demeanor. I'm not trying to be humble. I just know where your audience is at and I'm just trying to tell it like it is like

and not hold back and I'm not afraid to be open and honest. Like honestly, like we had found it we'd love to help you on your journey. But at the same time, I'm trying my best to just kind of just give you the real stuff because I know that's what makes a great interview. Yeah, totally. Okay, let's talk about decision making when it comes to leadership. So you've talked about in the past that you like to trust your gut. And so there's lots of mixed opinions about this.

I have lots of people come on the show that say like you need to be rational, you need to control your emotions. And then there's other people like you who say more of trusting your gut is important and going with your feelings. So what is your insight in terms of how you make decisions? Yeah, so it's interesting. I've trusted my gut still do a lot, but I think I'm taking it a step further these days, especially as the company develops and especially as we're bringing on really experienced leaders, they're used to growing and scaling businesses not off pure gut,

but data and insights. I think it's a combination. You can make a decision off gut, but you're just winging it the whole time. And because really, when it comes to business, I think, think you've got to be right like 60, 70% of the time. And if you keep going off gut, it just, you can. And I still do. But like now I like to use data and insights to back it up as well where I can. And I think that's kind of the evolved nation when it comes to decision making and that. And that's just, honestly, that comes from a credit to our team. Like, they've taught me that I have always winged it. That's what I'm used to. I'm, your typical founder, that's what I've realized as well, where I like to create something from

nothing. I love to create things. Like, I love to just build. And yeah, like to actually scale a business and to be a solid operator, you need data and insights to make better decisions. So I hope that answers your question. It does. And I think something else that you sort of alluded to is you also need the right team, a team that bounces your weaknesses and maybe somebody who's more analytical by your side. That's what I have my business partner, Tim, is like the data numbers guy and I'm just the ideas person. Yeah, 100%. An executor, but yeah. Yeah. Cool. So let's move on to some tactical content. And then I know we got to close out soon. We love actionable advice here on the podcast. So we've all heard the phrase, it takes money to make money. And a lot of people

shy away from starting their own company because they don't have any resources. And you say this is actually a common misconception. So let's talk about what an inspiring entrepreneur can do. They want to start a business, but they have very little resources. Yeah. So like I said, if you want to start a business, first of all, you've got to find out what kind of business you want to start. And the best way to find that out is to either try it, listen to podcast or listen or learn or meet people that are doing the kind of business that you want to do to get an understanding if you think that that's something you like. But at the end of the day, you just got to try. You've just got to try and you just have to be prepared to understand that if it doesn't work out, those lessons that

you learn, they're gold. Like they're worth tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars to you, those lessons. So you can't be afraid to fail. But at the same time, you need to learn from people that are doing it, right? So that's why I'm a big, big fan of working out what kind of business you want to start. We'd love to go on the journey with you at Founder Plus. If you want to start an online business, we have instructors that teach exactly the kind of business you want to start, whether it's a service-based business, whether it's a digital agency, whether it's freelancing, whether it's an online course business, whether it's an e-commerce business, whether it's a software business, all these different businesses. We have people that will teach you that.

And just follow the frameworks. But, coming back to your question, do you need money to make money? I think you can start a business with little to no money, no doubt about it. I'm living proof of that. Haller, I started founder with a couple of grant. And then over time, I just kind of kept flipping, reinvesting, reinvesting, reinvesting, reinvesting, reinvesting, reinvesting, right? So you definitely get there slower. It definitely is harder, but you learn incredible lessons. So the key thing to take away to answer your question is no, you don't need a lot of money to start a business. And I see that within our students in our community. Some of the things that they are doing is insane around how they start businesses,

especially service-based businesses. If you have a skill, you can do incredible things, right? If you have a skill, you can go out, you can hustle, you can get clients, you can provide a service, you can do all sorts of things, right? But you don't need money, really, to make money. you can build something from nothing with little to no resource. Yeah. And something else I'd love for you to touch on is this analogy that you have about painkiller products versus vitamin products. I think this would be really important for my listeners.

Yeah. So look, I make no claim to inventing this concept. I'd even know who did, but it wasn't me. Just say that straight out. It's a big term in Silicon Valley, but what it really comes down to is when you're creating a product or a service, you need to think of them as pain killers versus vitamins. So vitamins are something that people take as a nice to have.

They don't really need it. And really the best products and services are painkillers. They solve a deep pain. Like if you've got a headache, you want a paracetamol, you want it to go away. And so when I think about what we're creating with Founder Plus, If somebody wants to start a business or grow a business, I know that we're building a pain killer product because we're giving you all the frameworks, all the proven frameworks, all the

shortcuts, all the lessons learned from people that are actually doing it. If you enroll in Founda Plus, it's like $1,500 a year. It's nothing. If you enroll in Founda Plus, you can learn very, very quickly. You could give it to your team and they could learn very, very quickly for people that have done it. So you've really got to think about, does your product or service solve a deep pain? Yeah, I love that. And I guess the vitamin part of it is that they're just nice to have.

You could take your vitamins if you want to, but it's not going to really solve any of your pain, right? No. All right. So as we wrap up this interview, I always ask two questions to my guests. And this is an opportunity for you to share anything that you think will inspire or motivate our listeners. So the first question is, what is one actionable thing that are young improfitors can do today to be more profiting tomorrow? Identify five people that you believe are within your reach to learn from and reach out to them

and see if you can have a conversation. It is so powerful. And then also, yeah, sign up to Founder Plus or we'd love to help you on a platform. And Founder Plus, what is Founder Plus exactly? Like, what can they find? Oh, it's our All Access membership pass to all of our courses. We have 23, 24 at our platform, plus what we're releasing one a month. We have live workshops.

It's everything you need to start and grow your business. It's the only membership you need to grow your business as an entrepreneur. It's where you know. Awesome. And what is your secret to profiting in life? Trying to provide as much value as possible to the marketplace. Amazing. Where can everybody learn more about?

about you and everything that you do. Oh, you can go to founder.com, F-O-U-N-D-R-com, or if you'd like to check out Founder Plus, which is a big focus of ours now. Like I said, it's the alternative to an MBA. We'd love to come on the journey with you. You can go to founder.com forward slash membership. Well, thank you so much, Nathan. This was such a great conversation.

I can't wait to put it out. Awesome. Thanks so much. Hall of it is awesome. Young and Profiters. I have to say, I really resonated with this one as a former side hustler myself. Nathan's story was so inspiring.

I mean, he's grown such an incredible company. It is truly amazing what you can do if you just put your mind to it. And when you have passion and love for what you do and feel fully absorbed and aligned and feel like what you're doing has a purpose, anything is possible. And it just goes to show that you can get paid to do what you love and be really successful and not have it feel like work. I remember when I was working for Disney streaming services. I was working on Yap and had Yap before I started the job shortly before.

And all the while I worked at Disney Streaming Services for two years. I had Yap podcast as a side hustle. And then eventually I started Yap Media Agency. And so I had the podcast and the media agency as a side hustle. And I loved working for Disney. I mean, the work itself was challenging. It was not an easy job. But I felt incomplete.

I felt unfulfilled. I felt like I wasn't actually reaching my full potential. I felt like I wasn't utilizing all parts of my brain, all parts of my talents. And I just felt like I wasn't being a star. I wasn't as big as a leader as I wanted. I wasn't making as much impact as I wanted to make in the world, quite frankly. and Yap allowed me to use so many different parts of my talents. I was able to do everything that I love to do and grow and evolve how I wanted to evolve

because it was my thing. I could take it any direction that I wanted to. I had no boss telling me what to do and incorporate. You have to stay in your lane. There's all these like little silos, especially at a company like Disney. It's like you're not allowed to step on toes. And even if there's a problem, sometimes you're not even allowed to go and fix the problem and fill that gap. And so you're just like kind of stuck in your lane doing the same things over and over again and not necessarily growing.

Only when somebody allows you to grow by giving you a promotion or changing your role or giving you another project. It's not in your control. And so none of the rewards really felt as good as Yap did. And while I was working at Disney, even before I was working at Disney, I had Yap as a podcast. And that was my passion project. That's what fueled me. That's what I'd work on in the morning and the night at lunchtime. Any freaking spare time, any spare minute.

I was working on Young and Profiting Podcast. I poured all my energy into learning everything about podcasting, learning everything about social media and LinkedIn and how to just grow and become this personality. And I just day by day, step by step, action by action, little by little, just stacked and stacked and stacked and stacked. built this foundation until I was ready to leave my corporate job. And Nathan has a very similar story. His took a little bit longer than mine. But what I do want to tell you guys is that it is

possible. It is possible to find something that you love and to make money doing it. And the other takeaway that I have is the fact that it's really important to have people to help you along the way. mentorship is extremely invaluable when it comes to entrepreneurship. I mean, I think about my journey. First of all, Heather Monaghan, who kicked me in the butt to start my company and really opened my eyes to see the opportunity to generate money from what I was building before I was very pure and just wanted to build this movement essentially. And I didn't really have a plan to monetize.

And she really helped me figure that out, which poured gasoline on. everything and made this into an actual career. She changed my freaking life. And I'll never forget her for it. And she doesn't get credit for building what I built. I did it all in terms of building brick by brick and having the foundation and being ready for that opportunity. But she saw the light that this was a monetizable opportunity and changed my perspective of

how I would get to my end destination and accelerated that drastically. And it's only because I was. willing to listen to her advice and be open to it. And then Jordan Harvinger, I always talk about him. He's one of my mentors and best friends. And he's a top podcaster. And he teaches me a lot about podcasting, but I teach him as well. And here's the thing. Mentorship is a give and take relationship. I've got a lot of people asking me to be their mentor lately. And some people I take up on it. And some people, I just am not interested because they need to do the legwork themselves. They don't study enough.

They don't look up things on their own accord, things that are easily Googled or not even necessarily easy to Google, but possible to Google and search and figure out yourself or re-engineer, whatever it is. Nobody who is worth their salt for a conversation wants to speak to somebody who's too lazy to do the work on their own. They want to help you with the things that are not possible to find out online.

They want to help you if you can help them. It's the truth. It is totally a give and take relationship. With me and Jordan, for example, I'm teaching him everything as I figure it out and vice versa. And in the podcast industry specifically,

I have a group of friends where we share industry secrets and tell each other what we're doing, but you have to earn your spot to be in those conversations. It's not just going to be given to you. And by the way, when you try really hard and you're hustling and it shows

and you're putting in the reps and you're going above and beyond and you're being helpful to others who could potentially help you, people will go out of their way to help you because they'll see something in you and they'll want to be a part of that story because they'll get bragging rights,

whether it's actually publicly or just internally, they'll know that they helped this person that hopefully is going to be the next big thing in your field. Well, young improfitors, I hope you feel inspired from this episode. I surely do. And if you did enjoy it, I hope that you drop us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform. Apple Podcast is my favorite player for a review. I love to check those reviews.

I'm quite obsessed with checking those reviews. I check multiple times a day. That's the type of person I am. And I have to say we've been crushing on Apple Podcasts. We just hit top 100 across all categories on Apple. That is freaking huge. And we're number one in entrepreneurship. Past Alex or Mosy, past even Bartlett.

Freaking sick number one and number three in business. Man, we are crushing on Apple. And many a thanks to the people who have dropped us to review because that's surely helping right now. And one of the reasons why we're doing so well on Apple. So so exciting, such exciting times for Young and Profiting Podcast and the team. And thanks to all of our listeners who tune in each and every week. You guys are amazing.

Big thanks to my Yap team, as always. Couldn't do this without you. This is your host, Halitaha, signing off.