Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Ned Fulmer: How to Go Viral on YouTube | Marketing | E80

Episode Date: September 14, 2020

Today on the show we are chatting with Ned Fulmer. Ned is a member of The Try Guys, an online video comedy series, which was originally created with 3 other co-workers while working at BuzzFeed. The Try Guys Youtube channel has over 7.3 million subscribers and their videos have garnered billions of views--- making them one of the most successful channels in Youtube history. The quartet hosted Youtube’s 8th annual Streamy Awards in 2018 and they won the Audience Choice “Show Of The Year” award in 2017. The Try Guys recently put out their first book together called ‘The Hidden Power of F*cking Up,’ and they also host a podcast called “Trypod.” In addition, Ned is currently gearing up to launch a new podcast with his wife called “Baby Steps.”  Tune into this episode to learn why the only way to succeed is to commit to failing over and over again and get Ned’s top tips for going viral on youtube.    Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Follow Ned Fulmer: Website: https://tryguys.com/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nedfulmer/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nedfulmer/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6SF8DGvxDnB7kDqHis6TxA Podcast: https://tryguys.com/pages/podcast

You're listening to Yap, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halitaha, and on Young and Profiting Podcasts, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession, or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests.

by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of ex-FBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and best-selling authors. A subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, how to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young and Profiting Podcast. Today on the show, we're chatting with Ned Fulmer.

Net is one member of the Try Guys, an online video comedy series, which he originally created with three other co-workers while working at BuzzFeed. Now the Try Guys are independent and their YouTube channel has over 7.3 million subscribers, with their videos garnering billions of views, making them one of the most successful channels in YouTube history. The Quartet hosted YouTube's eighth annual Streamy Awards in 2018 and they won the Audience Choice Show of the Year award in 2017. The Try Guys recently put out their first book together called The Hidden Power of Effing Up. And if that wasn't enough, the Tri guys also host their own podcast called Tripod. And last but not least, Ned is gearing up to launch a new podcast with his wife called Baby Steps. And this episode will learn why the only way to succeed is to commit to failing over and over again. And we'll get Ned's top tips for going viral on YouTube.

Hey, Ned, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast. Thanks for having me. We're so looking forward to this interview. You are such a star. You have an amazing background story. You're really living every millennial's dream. To introduce you to my listeners, you're a YouTube star. You are one of the four members of the Tri-Gy guys.

And, in fact, according to the internet, you are the most popular tri-guise. So we're really excited about that. Oh, my gosh. Wow, I'm honored. Yeah, that's what the Internet says. And your YouTube channel has over seven. million subscribers. You guys have over two billion total downloads, which is incredible. You know, we've had huge YouTube stars like Evan Carmichael on the show, but you guys are actually like

three times as popular as him. So just amazing in terms of your reach and all the success you've had on YouTube. You and your try guys have also written a book and it's rose to the number one New York Times bestselling list, the hidden power of effing up. And you also used to work at BuzzFeed, which is really interesting, but now you guys have one off to create your own independent company. But before we get into Try Guys, how you started on YouTube, some of your YouTube tips, I'd like to get an understanding of your career background. Does that sound okay? Sure. Okay. So we have something in common. We both got our undergad in chemistry. I actually switched my major,

but I found out that you got your undergrad in chemistry, and you actually started your career off as a chemist, and used to do comedy at night. And so tell us, like, why did you choose chemistry? Was your family really pressured you into getting some sort of traditional job? Were you afraid of kind of taking the risk of being a comedian? Like, what was that all about? Well, I was always really passionate about it.

I've always felt like I'm both an artist and a scientist. And chemistry was that mix of math and an understanding of the way the world and how the world changes. And also there's like, sort of like you get to light things on fire. So being a closet pyromaniac, that was very exciting to be in labs.

But, you know, in terms of why I chose to major in chemistry, it was because I liked it, but I was, you know, I'm not going to kid you. I mean, I'd be honest that having the idea of a backup plan for an entertainment career was certainly in my mind. I figured that I could do a comedy with a chemistry degree, but I couldn't necessarily do chemistry with a comedy or a theater degree.

True. And that proved to be true. That proved to be true for sure. I don't know that I would have gotten a day job at these labs if they are like, so you study. You have a theater studies major, but you say you're very good at chemistry. I don't believe you. Yeah.

And I think it's really important for people to have a backer. a plan and to have skills that they can always kind of fall back on. If for some reason, try guys went away today or all these different endeavors that you did went away today, you could always get a chemistry job, which is really important to have that security. That's true. And when I was doing a ton of unpaid comedy shows in Chicago, that security blanket and having a job to do during the day was helpful. I definitely remember a couple of times at my job, though, I would be running an experiment in the background and working on writing some sketches. And I remember printing out like a 50-page script for a show that we were doing. And my boss at the chemistry lab walks over and sees

in the printer and he's like, hmm, what's, what's this? I'm like, I'll just, you know, I just printing something that I need. I can totally relate. I work at Disney streaming services full time. And I run this like pretty big podcast on the side. And I always take my interviews during lunch and so I'm running around and people are seeing me like in a little phone booth like with all my equipment and camera and everything like that and they're probably like, what is this girl doing? Although cats out of the bag at this point. But cool, really cool stuff. So then tell me how did you end up getting a job at BuzzFeed? Because I think you started BuzzFeed in like 2013. How did you have the experience in order to land that job at BuzzFeed? Like what was that transition like and how did you get that

job. I'm honestly not sure. My interview lasted like 13 minutes. I thought I bombed it. They just sort of asked me if I knew how to use a camera and to run sound equipment. And I said yes, even though I hadn't gone to film school, you know, I sort of knew how to do it. I mean, I had done a lot of like independent shorts and YouTube shorts. So I think people that were interviewing like that. And I had also had like a fair amount of unpaid work experience in Chicago. So I definitely, I was, you know, 25, 26 at that time and had several years of experience, even though I hadn't really had a job in the field before. And I just, I applied because it was in my neighborhood, actually. I wanted to get some film production skills and I was, I didn't really like the freelancing lifestyle

of being by yourself all the time. And I wanted to kind of have a group environment so I could learn and make more connections because moving out to LA, making a lot of connections was important. Yeah. So that's really why I did it. I thought it was going to be a three-month thing where I'd learn some physical production skills and make some connections and then go back to writing spec scripts and trying to work my way into TV writing career. But I had some good advice from a mentor who was a TV writer

and he said, you know, don't bother trying to get one of these assistant jobs where you're like getting coffee for an experienced TV writer and doing that because you could do that for two or three years. But he says this, the new

media and digital media is something that everyone working in TV is really curious slash afraid, slash interested in. So try and get a ground floor job and something in new media. And that proved to be very good advice because here I am. I started as an intern in 2013 when there's only about 20 people in the company. Fast forward to years later where it's, you know, hundreds of people and millions of subscribers and fans. And I've learned a ton about how things go viral and how people share and distribute and make content on the internet. So it's just a really great educational experience

far more than I could have ever dreamed, like the film school I never had. Yeah, that's amazing. It's getting hands-on experience is so key. And I love that you started as an intern. I think a lot of people don't realize that if you want to get into another industry, one of the best ways to do it is to actually get an internship because you're not required to have like formal experience. You just kind of need to have the interest and the passion and the attitude and the willingness to learn. And usually people will give you a chance. And so it's a great way to pivot and kind of prove yourself and then work your way up.

That's what I did. I used to be an entertainment and was an entrepreneur right out of college. I used to have a website. And then I got an MBA internship to work at Hewlett Packard as a marketer. And so that's how I kind of started my marketing career. So I encourage everyone to get an internship if you have the bandwidth and you're in school. So let's talk about how you guys start. try guys. I think you started it in 2014 around you guys were all guys who worked at BuzzFeed. So tell me

about that story. How did you guys end up forming this group? It was in the early days of Facebook video. If you can imagine, Facebook didn't even have video at that point. And they were starting this whole new video publishing platform. And so Zach and Keith were part of a group that was trying to understand how people shared things on Facebook and what would really go viral on Facebook specifically. And the idea of guys trying things within the female scope of an experience was something that was really relatable to a lot of women and was getting shared widely. And so we started thinking of ideas in that vein. And there's not like a formal casting process or a formal branding process.

We just sort of did it because we were friends and also we were the only people that were willing to wear Victoria's secret thongs on camera as guys. Probably as girls too. But the decision to call it try guys was just sort of we do everything as a test and then see if it works and if people like it, we'll do more of it. But there was no top down, you guys are going to be the try guys now. If anything, we kept having. minor disagreements with our management because having four people work on one project was counter to the ethos of BuzzFeed at the time where each person would make like six projects. Here we are, four people working on one big project. Yeah, that's so interesting. So it kind of just like all happened by accident. It was just whoever was willing to show their butts because I think your first video is like wearing women's underwear or wearing women's songs or something like.

that. That's so funny. And so you didn't really get to choose your business partners. Most people get to really like, it's either their best friend from college and they start a startup together or, you know, they have people apply to be their business partner or to join their company. You kind of just inherited your business partners. So what's that like? Do you guys butt heads a lot? Do you guys get along? How do you split up the work and does everybody have their unique role? Or is it kind of all just, do you guys just work on everything? Yeah, absolutely. And so we have developed a very collaborative and fluid way of working with each other over now almost six years. And even though we kind of fell into it in the beginning, the decision to leave BuzzFeed and form an independent

company was very much something where, you know, everyone had to be very on board with and to work very hard at making that happen. So even though we may not have chosen, in the beginning, we have all recommitted ourselves to this new journey that we're on. But in terms of dividing up responsibilities, we each can kind of the beauties we can all do a lot of things, but we kind of also tend to gravitate towards things that we prefer. Each project will have one of the four of us as a creative lead overseeing it, almost like a director and kind of guiding all the elements and leading the staff towards that goal.

And then more generally, we each do different facets of the business. I know Keith runs our Patreon and Zach worked on our kind of organizing book very heavily. Eugene works on a lot of our external pitches and kind of forays into the TV space. I kind of handle the managerial personnel and, leading our team, the financial aspects of things. So kind of we all do different things, but as creatives, we all love to shoot, we all love to edit, and they all love to tell stories. And even though we do that in different ways, I think that those differences make us a stronger unit. Yeah, definitely. I love how you guys all kind of came from the same schooling with BuzzFeed.

And so you probably share a lot of philosophies and all know how to do a lot of cool things in terms of video editing and how to go viral and all those types of things. So that's very cool. So you guys ended up leaving BuzzFeed. You went independent in 2018. Does BuzzFeed own a part of Try Guys? Like, what was that process like actually taking something that you created at a corporate company and then going independent? What was that like? Yeah, it was, you know, it was a difficult negotiation and conversation. But ultimately, it's a win, win, right? We all, Although we have the ability to create a whole new brand and make it popular through our personalities, it would be nice to still be called the Try Guys and have all the IP of our previous work.

And similarly, even though BuzzFeed would have, they don't have anymore, but they would have had the ability to recast the Try Guys and try and create a new cast dynamic. That would have been pretty difficult for them. So I think ultimately it was something that made a ton of sense. and we were able to purchase it outright, and now we own it and control it completely. And we're very proud of that fact. And I have really feel like now for our fans,

we can have that brand continuity that they feel like they're watching the same show and the same cast now in its 2.0 iteration. I'm always kind of curious what things would have looked like if we try and come up with completely new, branding, but all of our different ideas of what to call the show were, they had varying levels of success. What was like, what was one of the top contenders? Oh, gosh, there were so many silly ones. We at first, we were like, yeah, we'll call ourselves like K-N-Z-E, like A-C-D-C or some sort of like

cool four-letter like rock band, which is just the four of our names. And it like, it won't mean anything, but it'll also mean anything. You know, maybe that's going to do. At Yap, we have a super unique company culture. We're all about obsessive excellence. We even call ourselves scrappy hustlers. And I'm really picky when it comes to my employees. My team is growing every day.

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So good for you guys that you actually bought that out from BuzzFeed. Why did you guys decide you needed to go independent? Like, what was the decision-making factor in terms of deciding to leave BuzzFeed? It really came down to autonomy and ownership. You know, we wanted to have the autonomy to able fully do the projects we wanted to and invest in the things that we wanted to without having to have a conversation with management. And then we wanted the ownership over, you know, our own work. I mean, there's, I think there's only, once your career is grown to a certain point,

there's maybe so much you can get as an employee. Yes, totally. And so having the ability to really kind of build something ourselves that we had ownership and autonomy over was the biggest thing. Yeah. So tell us about your business model. Like, how do you guys monetize, try guys, and how big do you think you can scale this company to?

Well, we know that from the number of unique viewers we have about every 90 days, there's 25 million people out there who are tapped in. So that's one goal is to take our subscribers from 7 million to 25 million. But of course, there's outside of that number. There's growing in new areas and reaching even more people. So we have some shows that are targeted to grow into new audiences. Our four-verse-one series is a great example of that. We played four simultaneous games against a blindfolded chess master, and we all teamed together to try and take down a poker pro.

I think, like, chess and poker would be not things that you might typically expect from what we're known as guys trying lady things like acrylic nails or high heels, which are some of our most popular videos. So those are efforts to expand into new. audiences. Our business model generally is to develop brands and then to reach the audience in a bunch of diversified ways. So if you think of the Try Guys as a core brand, we can connect with our audience through YouTube videos, but we can also connect with them through our book. We went on the 27 city international live tour last summer. So that was a live component of podcasting,

of course. So there's a bunch of different ways that we can reach people and entertain them and move them. Those are all various aspects of our business. And then from there, we want to use the Try Guys as not just a brand of a core cast of four people, but as an umbrella of a different brand. So I think that you can sit with us podcast that Ariel and the other ladies launched as part of that. Also, Ariel and I are launching, this is a YAP exclusive, but we are launching a parenting podcast called Baby Steps. That will come out on September 6th. Yeah, Ariel is my wife, yes. Yeah, so this kind of a developing of new brands and then also distributing various businesses around them is kind of our main approach. Yeah, I had no idea that your wife's podcast,

and I think it's with the other try guy wives or girlfriends. I'm not sure. I didn't realize I was under your brand. And my next question was going to be, are you guys just focused on your brand, your tri guys, or are you going to kind of branch out and try new ideas? So that's really cool. Tell us about podcasting. Why did you guys start to get into the podcasting space? What interested you there? And then why this new Baby Steps podcast? Like what are you trying to teach the world with that new show? Well, with Baby Steps, we are living in a totally different world now. We have coronavirus. A lot of parents are on the hook for baby care 24-7 and not having the ability to go to a museum or out and about to help with that responsibility. And so we see there's a need to have entertainment and advice and kind of a comedy mixed with information out there. And we also see it as a way of, you know, the first time we had our child, there were so much that we didn't get to say so many stories we didn't get to tell. And we don't necessarily aspire to be daily bloggers or that sort of like parenting YouTube videos, but having a weekly podcast where we can tell stories and also come up with things like React to Expert advice and trending product reviews.

We reviewed something called the Frida Balls, which is underwear for. for dads with a protective cup that prevents some baby kicks and glancing blows. Just funny stuff like that. But it's a parenting podcast for not so perfect parents because we make it look cute on Instagram, but the reality is it is far more messy. So it's kind of an inside look at what it's like to be pregnant and raising a toddler during a pandemic. Yeah, I love that.

I think that's such a great idea for a show. So that comes out. You said September 6th. September 6th, yeah, Sundays. Okay, awesome. So that's great. We'll definitely put the link in our show notes. When the show comes out, it will probably align right with your launch. So that will be awesome. You're probably also excited to, like, do a creative project with your wife. Like, what a great way to kind of, like, spend more time together and, like, build new memories and bond, honestly. Like, that sounds like such a... It's so awesome because, you know, we just kind of get to chat for an hour, talk about funny stories and things that happened. And, yeah, and all the development work, you know, the photo shoots and coming up with all the branding. That's been really fun to do with her as well. We now, we have a, we took such a cute photo of our son, Wes, with podcasting earphones and a microphone.

He's just like kind of has a mischievous smile as he's standing on a chair. So cute that a photographer gave us a full, you know, giant like printout of it. Now we're going to hang in the new podcasting studio. You and your wife seem like you have such a great relationship. And it's kind of like an internet joke how much you talk about your wife. You always bring her up in conversations and things like that. So tell us, like, what's your number one secret to you a great relationship? Oh, gosh.

What's my number one secret to a great relationship? I mean, I think, you know, I talk about her a lot because she's really awesome. That kind of mutual admiration and respect as well as communication, I think is really important. You know, even when you're having disagreements, as long as you can approach the conversation from a place of empathy and respect and a willingness to figure things out and to work towards common goals, If you have the understanding that as long as you work at things, there's nothing you can't overcome, I think that that is a small perspective change, but it makes a huge difference in terms of overcoming any obstacle.

Yeah. And it probably helps that you guys have very similar ambitions. I mean, I think she's an interior designer, but she also is like into podcasting and kind of very supportive with you, interested in being like part of your overall brand. And so I'm sure that helps. My boyfriend's like a famous, music producer, and it helps me because he understands when I have to do all these interviews and and, like, kind of always working. It helps when you have, like, two ambitious people who kind of come together and try to make it happen together. Absolutely. So let's go back to try, guys. Some of your video topics, a lot of people might think that they're really clickbaity, you know, like they're very shocking. They kind of have that shock value. But you say that really, it's not about being clickbaity

or having shallow topics, you really try to have a message behind every video topic that you have. So tell us about some of the key things that you've learned or some of the key messages that your show tries to bring about to your viewers. Sure. Well, we try to encourage people to try new things. We want to show that the world is not such a big place, that it's rather small. We should celebrate our differences rather than let them the things that we push ourselves away from. We want to encourage people to connect with their loved ones and their friends and family, share things that make them happy.

And in terms of clickbait, I mean, we try and have engaging and exciting topics that people care about. You know, it's not clickbait if you deliver on the premise, right? I know there are sometimes that people are like, whoa, I thought that this was, I did a, like a fitness transformation where I got a six-pack in six weeks. And people were like, whoa, I thought it was a Photoshop, like a prank. Like, you're, I thought it was clickbait. But it was really a kind of an emotional journey and coming from a place of like male vulnerability and exploring that.

So everything that we do, we try and try and deliver on the clickbait, you know. Yeah. Do you ever wonder, like, this is like an impromptu question. So, like, you guys are all, I think you have, like, one Asian member in the group. We have three white guys. One of them is openly gay, right? Do you ever feel like you need, like, one more tri-guide, like, to, like, diversify it a bit, maybe a minority or something?

Yeah, we have certainly, so adding new cast members and kind of new talent to the tri-guise universe is something we're actively pursuing. We have some, in addition to the thing with our wives, which doesn't really count. Some of our staffers, YB and Alexandria, wanted to come up with a muckbang show where they're eating a lot of food. So that's been something we've been investing in as well as some external talent with some new shows that are coming out soon. But, yeah, I think that while it may be, I don't know, that's something that we don't have any plans for now to change what the core quartet cast. means kind of adding new people to the umbrella of the Tri-Gy Guys universe is definitely something that we're actively working on.

That's awesome. So let's talk about your book. You guys have a New York Times bestseller. It's called The Hidden Power of F&Up. What would you say was your biggest F-Up? And how did you overcome it? In writing the book or just in life? In life.

In life. Oh, man. Gosh, that is... It can be anything. That is a hard question. biggest F up in life. Honestly, one thing that really shifted my fate was I got a really bad knee injury when I was working in Chicago in 2013. And that's what like I, I effed up. I was running way too fast and like letting myself go out of control and tripped and fell and kind of, it had a really

bad injury. I had to quit all of my shows, go off on a disability leave from work for a time because the lab, of course, required you to be able to lift 40 pounds to work there, interestingly enough. But that was a moment where it really, I was very stable working a day job at a chem lab and doing these fun shows at night, that taking a risk and moving to Los Angeles or New York, whatever, you know, a larger market for me. L.A. was where I wanted to go. That's a very scary and difficult decision. Yeah.

And when you have the stasis of two improv groups you're in, when the sketch show that's coming up and then you still have your job, it's like it's very hard to just disrupt all of that and say, you know, I'm going to move to L.A. with my dreams on a cardigan. having that break in my life kind of forced me to reassess things and realized that that wasn't getting younger and if I just kept here doing the same thing,

I probably, even though S&L auditions came by every year and you're always excited for that showcase and working on your material the other 365 days of the year, that's a very long shot. Really, one of the few things that is open to performers in Chicago. So essentially that injury led you to making that move and making that transition. Is that what you're saying? Like that's that's kind of why you ended up in L.A.? Yeah, I think absolutely. It certainly accelerated that timeline and probably it maybe moving to L.A. even though it was something I always wanted to. Maybe it's something that if I hadn't had that break in my life didn't do. And that idea of taking a bold risk on yourself, I think is something that echoes in a lot of different of business. I think that if you have the ability to bet on yourself and to take a bold

risk and to do something that other people maybe are afraid to do, that can make all the difference. Totally. And when you're so comfortable and you have a cushy job, it's so hard to take that leap, to take that jump because you feel like you have so much to lose. But when you already have something that's gone, it's kind of more easy to make out change and to take on that risk because you don't have as much to lose. So I definitely can relate there. So moving on to you another topic in your book, you guys have a really cute philosophy on, you call it, fall philosophy, on ways to tackle life in its wonderful, terrible, uncertain glory. So can you tell us about this fail-offacy and how we can succeed by failing over and over again?

Yeah, I think it's kind of related to what we're talking about with risk-taking. I mean, there are so many ways that we let the fear of failure or the fear of effing up paralyze us into inaction or indecision. But the reality is life is full of mistakes and messups. And here I can, like, with the benefit of hindsight, chart some like perfect like course of my career where A led to B and, you know, all the connections seem like, wow, oh, how perfect that who was working at BuzzFeed in 2013. But the reality is, like, there were so many moves that I made that didn't really pan out or were, like, we're dead ends.

Like, there's going to be so many mistakes that you make in your life. And that's not ever going to be a one-way street or a ladder straight to success, even when you're in kind of those regimented, like a med school program or, you know, a Ph.D. program. Even though those seven years might still regimented after that, you know, there's still, there's going to be like a zigzagging spider web of career choices and decisions and things that you do. And what I found is that being afraid of messing up is going to severely limit the experiences that you have and the types of things that you can do. Yeah. And so for my understanding, this YouTube series with the Tri-Guice, that wasn't your first YouTube show. How many shows have you had before the Tri-Gy-Gy-Gy's?

Oh, gosh. I mean, in Chicago, we would have a different show, a different live show every couple of months. And then in terms of making YouTube videos, I made a sitcom in college because I was very into sitcom. and I remember I had a moment where when we published it online, it suddenly got thousands of views. And we were like, whoa, but there's not even a thousand people in my school. That, I think, like, I was only ever doing live performances and, like, you know, 200 people would be like, wow, there's so many people here. But the realization that like publishing even sort of a not so great project that I did in school that was just because we published it online and in segments suddenly got like an order of magnitude more views than I had ever gotten by doing live shows. That was kind of an early appreciation, you know, back in 2008 or 2007 that, oh, wow.

maybe this like digital media is a thing. Yeah. And a lot of people like they may look at you guys and think, oh, what an overnight success. But you were working on your craft and experimenting with things from 2008. And it reminds, like, Yap for me is my sixth show. I was in radio. I used to work at Hot 97. I used to have online radio shows. I used to be more focused on music and hip hop. And I evolved. But Yap is my most successful show. Imagine if two years ago I said, oh, I'm done with podcasting. I don't want to give it a try again. I would never be talking to world famous YouTubers and Robert Green and Mark Manson and huge people, you know. So I would say, don't be afraid to practice, to try to start something, to fail, to stop it, to evolve, to try a new show. Like, that's how you succeed. It's really just trying and trying until you succeed. I completely agree. Because every try that you do, everything that you attempt, you gain experience from it. You gain a better understanding of your own skills and like you're you're not going to just be successful right off the bat that's a great piece of advice that i've heard for for film writers there's this

paradigm of the young film writer that just rewrites their same opus movie 10 times well what if they spent that time writing 10 different movies and all of them not great but maybe the 10th one is a little bit better, maybe one out of them is good. And I think that for anyone just starting out, especially if you're interested in media, the barrier to entry is so much lower. You know, you can just be filming things on your cell phone and trying out different things. And the nice thing about digital media is it's not like some big, like, oh, I have to send my perfect spec script to an agent. It's like, you can just start publishing things. If people don't like it, nobody will see it, so who cares?

And then the things that people do like will put you on the map. And then an agent, to the extent that you need one, will be coming to knock on your door. Exactly. I know. People just need to not be free to try. And also not stick to the same thing for too long. I see a lot of podcasters especially. They have a show that never takes off and they do it for like five years.

And it's like, okay, your show is not working, right? You need to either change your marketing. You need to change your branding. You need to change your angle. You need to change your frequency. You need to change your format. Like something needs to change. You can't just keep doing the same thing and then expecting that someday you're going to blow up.

If it doesn't get traction in like a year or two, you probably need to like start something new and not be afraid to stop it and start something new, in my opinion. Yeah, that's a really great point. I've never thought of it like that. Podcasters need to be thinking about their podcasts like TikToks. Yeah. Let's get into some YouTube tips. we love actionable advice at Young and Profiting Podcast. That's like my main thing that I always give

people practical advice that they can use. And so like we said, your channel has over two billion views, seven million subscribers. You guys are huge YouTube stars. So you have a wealth of information. You guys released this blog on Patreon last year that was called The 10 Tips to Grow Viral with Try guys. I don't expect you to have memorized that blog post. But what I'm going to do is do like a rapid fire segment where I will list off one of the tips. I'll do, I know we won't get through all 10, maybe like three or four of them. And maybe you can elaborate. Let me know if you have any examples with what you've done with Try Guys specifically and just help people learn a little bit more about that tip. Does that sound good to you? Rapid fire. Let's do this. 10 out 10, baby.

Let's go. Okay, let's see if we could get all 10. Tip number one, connect with people's passions and identities. Yeah. People like to share things that. say things about themselves. So if you can make something that connects with what someone really, really likes, it's much more likely that they'll be, like, inspired by the content and want to share it to their friends. Happy New Year, Yab gang. I just love the unique energy of the new year. It's all about fresh starts. And fresh starts not only feel possible, but also feel encouraged. And if you've been thinking about starting a business, this is your sign. There's no better time than right now. 2026 can be the year that you build something that is truly yours, the year where you

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That's 30% off. Framer.com slash profiting for 30% off Framer.com slash profiting. Rules and restrictions apply. So like go narrow. I think that's the tip there. Tip number two. Like we did a video about, you know, anime cosplay where we went to the anime expo. I have not really heard of that before.

But then at this anime expo, there's hundreds and hundreds of people all dressed in esoteric costumes from, from animas and mangas that I have not really known. And that was a really big specific audience that. then had that video get a lot of views. Yeah, and they got exposure. And that's the thing about YouTube is that it's kind of like every video kind of operates as its own thing, you know, and you can get new fans from that video being focused on anime, but then they can go see your whole channel and maybe watch more videos. So tip number two. We're totally failing at this rapid fire.

I'm going so deep, even on number one. It's okay. Make sure your videos accomplish one of these three things. Make your audience feel something, connects them with someone or something, or informs them of information. Yeah, yeah, what we said. No, I mean, you know, you want to make your audience feel things, right? Like you want to make them learn something or you want to make them laugh or cry or feel joy. that's something that I think effective content in all different mediums does.

Totally. I totally agree. I think that's great advice. Tip number three, anticipate how the viewer will react. Yeah. Don't really know what that means. Let me know when you find out. I think it has something to do with will they share it or not. I think that's what it relates to. I think I was thinking of ways where even in the construction of a video, you know, if someone clicks on like a home makeover video, there's certain conventions that they might be aware of. So you can play with those where you can build on certain expectations and then like subvert and disrupt other expectations to keep them surprised, keep them delighted. That's good. Okay, tip number four, test and

iterate. This is very core to our philosophy. We think of every video as a test and then we look at the analytics, we try and gain learnings from it, whether it's a style test or a content test, a casting test. Everything we do, we try and learn something and then do more of the stuff that's working and do less of the stuff that's not. What kind of things do you A-B-Test? This is going a little deeper on the question. Do you A-B-test your thumbnails and titles? Like, what do you A-B-Test? Yeah, we really only have the ability to A-B-Test titles and thumbnails. I know that Zach launched a tea company recently, and he was doing some A-B testing of Google ads and Instagram ads. But mostly we have two different thumbnails and we'll kind of play them off

against each other and same with titles. You don't want to like mess with it too much because if somebody clicks on something that's like, Try Guys Try Ballet and then they get there and the title is like, Zach sprained his ankle, ouch, whoops. Like, it's just too different. then, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Tip number five, find your foundational formats. Yeah, so as much as trying different things and like different types of content showcasing different identities is important. There's also an important element to different, you know, any channel you have to have consistency. So we try and have that core format of, you know, it's the four of us trying something new, learning from an expert. We try not to deviate too far from that because we've found that when we're having periods of time

where we're throwing so many different things at the audience and whether it's like just solo shows or things where we're not really trying something, but maybe we're just like playing a game. If you go a little too wide with your format, you start to lose tune in because some people are really excited about one thing. some people are really excited about the other thing but on the whole you won't get as much excitement for your content and your channel and then things will kind of start to suffer so that's actually something that i think that people can take away is like what what is kind of a core element of what i make and how can i always be true to that and it's not to say that you can't do other things but they should in their best form they should come via a different vertical that's why for the baby steps

podcast, we're launching that on a completely new channel, right? It's going to feel very different and very unique because I think that will attract drag guys fans, but we also attract, might attract some unique fans. Yeah, cool. Okay, so the last tip I'm going to go have you go through is show human error to make your content more relatable. That's a very robotic way of saying. That's true. That's true. That's a very inauthentic way of saying be authentic. But it is true. I went to an Ivy League school. I happen to be wearing a Yale t-shirts. It's very embarrassing. But I'm very smart and good at things. But that makes me understand that when I'm on camera, oftentimes not being good at things is better for the video. You know what I'm saying? Even if I know the answer to something, saying the wrong answer is better for the content because it lets the expert look good and it lets

you kind of be a conduit for the viewer for them learning something half the time i really don't know and i am a wild person that likes making bad decisions but part of that is specifically doing that for the content to be better and letting my kind of like theory uh brain with all the stuff we're talking about just be for guest interviews on podcasts where we talk about like very important stuff like profiting uh yeah it's probably the nerdiest show you've ever you'd be like this girl is such a nerd this is the nerdiest show i've ever been on it's all good but i do i really only get invited to the nerdy show so thank you very much for having me okay i have a new youtube coach I'm actually really starting to try to blow up young and profiting on YouTube.

We're big on Apple, we're big on Cass Box. We're a baby on YouTube. We're nothing compared to you guys. So I have a few questions. In terms of your thumbnail, what is your advice for thumbnails? I know, like, YouTube face is really important. Tell us what YouTube faces in terms of, like, having your mouth open, your eyes. Yeah, there you go.

If you guys are watching on video, you can see his YouTube face there. Tell us about thumbnails because my coach told me the thumbnail. is more important than your video. In some ways, that's true. The biggest things on YouTube, and this has been documented, other places. Check out Matt Pat's channels like YouTube Theory. You want to have a high click-through rate

and you want to have good audience retention. That means that people click on the video, they're interested in it, and they stick around to watch it. So you have to create an engaging premise and then deliver on that premise, ideally, you know, towards the end of the video. YouTube faces just means like people react and engage with faces more than they do not, right?

So having an expressive face that delivers intrigue and suspense, I think one of my favorite thumbnails, so it's like everything Dude Perfect does is great, but like there's, they often will, if you don't know them, they're a trick shot channel, a quintet. It's a guy throwing a paper towel roll, and it's like midshot, and there's a paper towel holder there. And so you immediately feel that sense of suspense and like unfulfilled potential of, oh, is this going to hit the paper towel holder and be successful? Finding way, that would be way more. That's like way better thumbnail, right, than someone just like holding a paper towel. and then text being like paper towel trick shot, that's a fine thumbnail, right?

But if you can really give a visceral sense of an unfulfilled potential, that's a much better thumbnail. Yeah. And so like I mentioned, I had another really big YouTuber on the show, Evan Carmichael, and he told me that the length of your video performs best at 10 minutes long. Have you found the same thing, or do you have another recommendation? in terms of video length? Honestly, it's different based on your audience. It is a little bit endemic to the platform. I think people tend to watch longer on YouTube than Facebook, for example.

But if your audience is used to 25-minute videos, probably a 10-minute video will feel short to them. But if your audience is used to 90-second videos, a 10-minute video might feel long to them. But it's optimizing for audience retention and watch time means that your videos should be the length that they need to be to retain the most amount of people. So for most videos on the platform, that's like 10 to 15 minutes. But our most popular series is 35 minutes long because it feels like a TV show and there's

stakes and suspense. And you really want to find out what happens at the end and you need the full half hour to develop all the storylines. It's a cooking show called Without a Recipe. It feels like a TV show. For a podcast, I know that people, since they're so long, it's less common on YouTube. So I think typically what people do is they'll have the long-form podcast channel, but then they'll also publish like top clips. Another channel. Or highlights, either on another channel or within the same feed. Yeah, I heard the dual channel strategy is a good one. Cool. And then my last question before we close out is, I know the intro of your video is really important. So do you have any philosophy in terms of how you intro your videos? Yeah. And this is kind of changed over time. I think we often started with like a non-sequitur joke that was really funny. And that I think works for your existing fans because they'll think, oh, how funny. But for new fans that are click.

on it or for people that maybe don't know your content as well, you really want to be delivering on the value proposition of the title and thumbnail immediately. What did I just click on and why is it going to be worth watching and exciting for me? I think Mr. Beast does a really great job of this, where sometimes literally the beginning of the video, if the title is, last to leave a $100,000 island keeps it the first five seconds of the video is kind of an expanding on that premise of like, I bought an $800,000 island and my 10 friends are going to stay here and the last person here is going to win it. Like, that's just this title, but in two sentences. Yeah. So it's like delivering on what you got them to click on in the first place is really

important in the first like 10, 20 seconds. Yeah. And having some of your most visually interesting shots right in the very first three seconds that, you know, because people, there's, there's so many different things you can do spending your time. And if you're here listening, thanks for spending your time with us. But, you know, you're probably listening to this while you're doing something different. Maybe you're watching something different while you're listening to this. Like, there are so many different ways that we spend our time and our attention. And some people might watch the first couple seconds of a YouTube video like from Instagram. Others might click on it. But but then you constantly have other thumbnails and things that are beckoning your attention.

So you really got to, if you were trying to convince someone that your content is worth watching, you better make it as worth watching and as worthwhile as fast as you can. Yeah, I think that's great advice. Now, the last question I asked all my guests who come on the show is, what is your secret to profiting in life? My secret to profiting in life, I think, is to surround your... yourself with with loved ones. The times when I've been the most happy is when I have been working with people that I like and have been, you know, when your work life and your

home life, your family life is working in harmony, you're going to be that much more inspired to be your best self in all aspects. Yeah, I think that, yeah, don't go at it alone would be my advice there. That's beautiful. And where can our listeners go to find more about you and everything that you do. Yeah, so you can check out our new podcast, Babyseps. You can search for it on Apple Podcasts or anywhere you get your podcasts, as well as YouTube.com slash Babyseps to join our YouTube community on Tryguise. You can check us out on tryguise.com or search for Try Guys on YouTube.

YouTube.com slash Try Guys at Ned Fulmer with an M. I've done that before that. That's funny. But yeah, thanks for listening and thanks for letting me get nerdy with you for an hour. Thank you, Ned. I appreciate it. I think our listeners are going to love all these YouTube tips and your awesome come-up story. So thank you for sharing with us.

Thanks. Bye. Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or comment on YouTube, SoundCloud, or your favorite platform. Reviews make all the hard work worth it. They're the ultimate thank you to me and the Yap team. The other way to support us is by word of mouth. Share this podcast with a friend or family member who may find it valuable.

Follow Yap on Instagram at Young and Profiting and check us out at young and profiting.com. You can find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn. Just search for my name, Hala Taha. Until next time, this is Hala, signing off.