Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Richard Moore on The Laws of Selling | Sales | YAPClassic | Part 2

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

When Richard Moore graduated from college, his mom told him that he couldn’t go home; he had to get a job. To make ends meet, he landed an entry-level phone-selling job. Now, he’s a top sales and conversion expert who has generated millions of dollars in sales between his corporate sales roles, his private coaching services, and his courses. In Part 2 of YAPClassic: The Art of Selling, you’ll learn more tried and true sales tactics, like asking your prospects the right questions and learning your prospects’ motives for buying. Richard will also break down when to raise your price and when to discount your product.  Richard is a sales guru and consultant with over 20 years of experience in online, in-person, and phone-based selling. His clients range from startups to 9-figure businesses, and he’s grown a massive influence on platforms like Linkedin and Instagram. Rich has also been featured in publications like Forbes and The Huffington Post. He travels the world sharing his knowledge on sales and content strategy to help businesses turn leads into clients and close more deals.  In this episode, Hala and Richard will discuss:  - Understanding both the science and artistry of sales  - The three questions you need to answer for your prospects  - The difference between leads and prospects  - Why you should appeal to a prospect’s emotional mind first - Uncovering a prospect’s motives for buying - Are you using an outdated approach to closing deals?  - How to find the right price for your product  - A boring product isn’t an excuse for bad salesmanship - And other topics… Richard Moore is a conversion coach who specializes in helping coaches and consultants convert on LinkedIn from their content. For nearly five years, Richard has successfully helped scores of businesses convert through their content on the platform. Before that, he did the same with Facebook. During his professional career, he has also converted multiple millions in sales from his previous corporate jobs in London.    Richard has taught nine-figure business owners and solopreneurs alike how to sell using LinkedIn through his coaching, courses, and lectures at prestigious institutions like Uni of Edinburgh, Oxford Uni, Pearson Business School, Uni of Warwick, Warwick Business School, EBS Business School, Uni of Nottingham and more. LinkedIn Secrets Masterclass, Have Job Security For Life: Use code ‘masterclass’ for 25% off at yapmedia.io/course. Resources Mentioned:  YAPClassic: Richard Moore on The Laws of Selling | Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yapclassic-richard-moore-on-the-laws-of-selling-part-1/id1368888880?i=1000607827696 Richard’s Website: https://www.therichardmoore.com/  Richard’s LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/richardjamesmoore?trk=public_post_feed-actor-image  Sponsored By:  LMNT - Get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any order only when you order through DrinkLMNT.com/YAP More About Young and Profiting Download Transcripts - youngandprofiting.com   Get Sponsorship Deals - youngandprofiting.com/sponsorships Leave a Review - ratethispodcast.com/yap Watch Videos - youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting Follow Hala Taha LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Instagram - instagram.com/yapwithhala/ TikTok - tiktok.com/@yapwithhala Twitter - twitter.com/yapwithhala Learn more about YAP Media Agency Services - yapmedia.io/

Young and profiters. Welcome back to another episode of Yap Classic. We're replaying part two of The Laws of Selling with Richard Moore. If you miss part one, I highly recommend you go back and listen to that episode first. We played it last Friday. It's also linked in the show notes. And in that episode, we go over Richard's background in sales, the different sales tactics you can use like leveraging social media to generate leads,

cold calling, building a great pitch, and turning your customers into advocates for your brand. In part two, we're talking about how to experiment with raising your prices and discounting your product to set the right price. Richard also explains the difference between leads and prospects, how to close a deal, and how to sell a boring product. Richard Moore is a sales and conversion guru with over 20 years of experience in online, in-person, and phone-based selling. His clients range from startups to nine-figure businesses, and he's a leading authority on using LinkedIn to gain new leads. Both part one and part two are filled to the brim with actionable advice that you can use to turn your leads into sales and scale your business. I am continuously impressed with Richard's breadth of knowledge in sales and conversion, and I think you will be too. Without further delay, here's part two of the laws of selling with Richard Moore.

Hey Richard, welcome back to Young and Profiting Podcast. Thank you so much for having me back. Of course, we're so lucky to have you on here. I'm really looking forward to putting out the laws of selling part two because when you came on last time, I was so impressed with your knowledge of sales and so are my listeners. I got so much positive feedback about that episode. So I know everyone is going to love part two. So we're going to continue on the sales theme of our previous episode. Selling is tricky. Everybody wants to have a technique and methodology, but then there's also a balance you have to take to be organic and natural.

So from your perspective, you're a selling guru. Do you think that selling is more of an art or a science? That's a great question. But for the record, I'm not called myself a guru. That's very kind of you to say. But yeah, I think that it can be made as science, but you really, really win when you understand that there is an artistry to it and there's an elegance that comes through the experience.

And if you think about it, if you've never done sales before, by the time you're, say, aged 20, a really good way of putting it is that you're a master of the art of communication by then. And I've got two young daughters, and even the youngest who's four, is phenomenal that understanding nuances and pattern in way when people interact, just alone understanding how people speak. There's an artistry to it.

And selling, to develop the art side, it's about a high amount of exposure to being on the pitch, basically. The more you can be doing it and interacting with people, the more you will subconsciously pick up on those little nuances and things. Stuff you're not aware of, that's something in your brain that understands and files away and remembers for the next time and those little nuances developed. I can sit down and give people great formulas that will really level them up. You know, for instance, here's how you pre-qualify a lead and find the best person to speak to in a sea of a thousand people looking at your content online, for instance. And things like that will make a large difference to your results if you're coming from zero. But the truth is it's always a human sport. And so to move to a place where people are thankful that they get to buy from you

and they're warmed up to the point where an onboarding phone call, if that's the way you do it, for instance, is like a validation that they were going to buy from you anyway. That requires a lot of elegance. And I think it does come from just feeding yourself with enough interactions with humans, just like if you network enough, you get the hang of it. If you speak to people enough, you get the hang bit. All this stuff really is just practice and time on the pitch.

So in many ways, my success now comes from the fact of just been doing a very long time. Whilst at the same time, I'm a bit of a student of it all as well. So I'm a big fan of the formulas and the systems that do work. Yeah. So typically a sales process or formula is usually like five to seven steps. It varies slightly, but usually it's like prospecting, preparation, approach. presentation, objection handling, closing, and perhaps follow up. Let's start at the basics. What is prospecting? How do you define prospecting for people who are new to sales?

Yeah, it's difficult because it's so different for every product and every type of sale you're after. But the idea with prospecting is, even if you go a little bit of a step further back, in fact, it's looking at pre-qualification. So how can I, in any way possible, before I've even engaged with anyone, apply some kind of intelligent filters here to ensure I'm going to be as effective as possible. How do I essentially minimize the amount of approaches that won't take me anywhere? And it can be simple things like if you're approaching a business, are you actually speaking to the top person? Because whilst there's a number of routes in,

if you do get the top person and the ultimate decision maker, you're always in a better place than someone who's going to go and internally sell on your behalf, for instance. So that can start. And then really when you feel you've got the right person, it's doing a modicum of research to at least to make sure that you're seeing what your angle is. You know, if you can answer like these three questions, why now, why us and why change? Those three things are innately being asked all the time by the person you're about to speak to. So like when you can answer those in the first few sentences, they really get to it.

And before we get to that point of their pitch, we just need to be thinking how do we warm them up? How do I position myself that if I am to approach someone and engage as someone, they're going to say, oh my God, yeah, I've seen you around and you are like, I mean, we're already halfway there. And I think that's where there's a whole world of exciting ways in which you can warm people up. But, you know, being careful with the first message perhaps, perhaps, or how you deliver that, you maybe use a voicemail instead of text.

And maybe the things you say is a little bit more of a tease rather. rather than just ramming a PDF down someone's throat as the first point of contact, really thinking about how you'll warm them up and get them saying, okay, I'm showing some receptivity now. Now let's move to that first point of conversation or a meeting or something along those lines. Yeah. Let's dig into that warming up a little bit. What do you mean exactly by that for somebody who's unfamiliar with the term?

Sure. So as much as possible, if I'm going to pitch someone, want them to feel warm and receptive to me, People have always hated being sold to, but because nowadays, if you approach them out of the blue, it tends to be a conditioned cynicism that you're going to sell them and people don't want that. You have to gain a bit of trust first. Everything hinges on trust. And so the warming process is about you validating that you're someone who's going to bring them some value. And that might be emotional value in that you're a good person and an interesting person to interact with or practical value because you can actually help them. their business. And it can take a number of forms and it can be as simple as leveraging a mutual contact. So if I say, I think I mentioned this in the last talk we did, you know, if I talk about someone that I'm connected to that you know, that validates that I'm a bit more legit and you're more likely to want to lean in and listen to what I have to say. It might be that I

tried the approach of putting out content and directing it to people like you so that the content warms you up and makes you think, hey, this person can really help. And literally yesterday, I received, as usual, DMs in response to my content, which is part of the sales warming process. And the guy said, I see you as the person to come to in terms of sales and now's the time. And that's warming people up. It's so that they decide, they self-select. They decide that they want to buy from you, or at least they want to hear what you have to say. And people say people by people, but what it really means is when there's trust from one person to another, there is the platform for receptivity to happen. And that's the best place to begin a pitch. And without warming up, the pitch is very difficult and awkward for both. Yeah, that makes total sense. Sticking on some definitions, what's the difference between a lead and a prospect? I feel like a lot of people get these terms confused.

Yeah, it is hard because it's semantics and I can go to two companies in London that I coach and they will use different terms from me different things. But loosely speaking, a lead in my world represents someone who technically could be sold. So there's an element of pre-qualification but probably I've not engaged with them. So if you, for instance, said to me, Richard, I know someone who totally could benefit from whenever it is you do. Or if I said, Hala, I know someone who would be a great guest on your podcast, that would be class as a need. For me, a prospect is something of an opportunity. And that's where I've taken the lead to a level where maybe I've engaged with them a bit and it's looking

like there's a level of receptivity. And then, of course, we have other nomenclature for when they've gone further into the sales process and have been pitched, for instance. But essentially, for me, a lead is, Technically, that person is, I've applied a couple of filters, the demographic is right, the role in the business is right, and robbery is an element of need there. And essentially, I'm looking for can they control budget? Do they have the authority to spend it? And is there probable need for what I have to sell? Got it.

That is really great advice. Let's move on to the sales approach, focusing on emotion and sales for a few minutes. Dale Carnegie one said, when dealing with people, remember you're not dealing with creatures of logic, but with creatures of emotion. And while the logical details of a sale are important, your buyers really make decisions based on how they feel about you and your product. And so you're a proponent of starting the sales process with emotional value and not practical value. Could you explain the difference between the two and why you choose to start off with emotional value? The reason why is because I'm selling to people and I'm selling to creatures that operate in a particular way. And it seems intuitive to give someone an intelligent grown-up decision-maker.

It seems intuitive to give them the logic and the facts, right? We're trying to be helpful. We're trying to be clear. But the truth is that's not how the human animal's brain works. the human brain starts with a real kind of animal, instinctive, an emotional center that is like the gatekeeper to use sales analogy before getting to the logic center. So if I want to interface with anyone, I have to go through the emotional part of the brain first. No matter how logical that person is, they might be famous for it. it all starts with emotion.

And very loosely speaking, and I'm not a psychologist, but I just have believed this from being around enough people over the years. If you're approaching someone cold, they're subconscious, because it's a subconscious part. This isn't an internal conscious dialogue. Their subconscious part of their brain will receive whatever approach you give them. This is moments into the first second and make a judgment on if you are a threat or if they might win here in some form or if they should be indifferent to you.

And the reaction is chemical and it's happening inside their brain and that's where they decide if they need to leverage the intelligence center of the brain, the logical part because that actually takes a lot more energy and your status of your brain is always trying to keep it like minimal use of energy essentially. So whenever part of your brain, brain it is, I think it's called the limbic brain, the old part of your brain, the kind of the some people call it the mitted brain or the crock brain or the chimp brain, the real animal part that's not evolved from, you know, 100,000 years ago or whatever, basically says, am I in

trouble or could this be really great for me? If it's neither of those, then discard and lose interest. So when you do something or say something that lights that up, you access the logical part, and now you've earned the right to speak to some. because now they are receptive and paying attention, it insurvised the brain is switched on. And that's why logic first is a mistake because the animal brain doesn't respond to that, so it is indifferent to it. And that's why great example, Haller, is recently I worked with someone who started their sales process through emails. They were trying to be helpful. Their first email to Cole Prospects was over a page long, loads of stats, underline bits,

cute little URLs and attached PDF, bold writing here there and everywhere, and no one was bothering to look at it. We broke it down and it ended up being two lines along the line of would you like to be published in this thing? I'm around tomorrow for a coffee between these times. Does that work from you? The reason why that first line worked is because that instant win of, oh, I get to look good. I get to be published. This would be amazing. I remember she came to me. She was like, I've only sent three of them so far, and I'm three of three. I'm literally like, cool, let's go, let's try this. And that has to be done the right way.

So you've got to understand with empathy how the person, the other side of the table is going to receive you. And when you get that, right, it is psychology and it is understanding behavior. You can be so much more penetrative. And you don't make an idiot of yourself because you haven't got people going, oh, this is awkward, I don't want to engage with you. And then, you know, people don't ghost you and things like that. And it's the world's a nicer place when you engage people emotionally first. So essentially you're proposing that whether it's an email or an in-person conversation,

like the first couple lines you say is really trying to get the person to feel better, right? Yeah. As to elevate their emotional state. So I call them the wins. There are four main ones. I think I covered this before, but save time, save money, make money. Sure, that can help. But really the main one is look good or an extension or variation.

of look good because that feeds the ego. And the nice way to do this is to leverage up here for a mutual contact. Because if I was to say, I can make you look better online, Hala. The problem is we've got too much cynicism there. But if I talk about how I've worked with a mutual contact, then that makes it much more believable as well. But I'm playing to your emotional center of wanting to do better in this world, look good and be accepted by people.

Yeah. Now, I know you're not that shallow, but the emotional side of your brain is. Everyone's brain reacts in the same way. Can I look better in some way? Not necessarily in terms of fashion labels or whatever, but generally speaking, does this improve social status for me? And if there's any kind of inclination towards that, then that gets a little bit of a light flash in the brain. And so those winds are crucial to gently kind of put in at the entry point. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.

At Yap, we have a super unique company culture. We're all about obsessive excellence. We even call ourselves scrappy hustlers. And I'm really picky when it comes to my employees. My team is growing every day. We're 60 people all over the world. And when it comes to hiring, I no longer feel overwhelmed by finding that perfect candidate, even though I'm so picky.

Because when it comes to hiring, indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post noticed. Indeed, sponsor jobs help you stand it. out and hire fast by boosting your post to the top relevant candidates. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored ones according to Indeed data worldwide. I'm so glad I found Indeed when I did because hiring is so much easier now. In fact, in the minute we've been talking, 23 hires were made on Indeed according to

Indeed data worldwide. Plus, there's no subscriptions or long-term contracts. You literally just pay for your results. You pay for the people that you hire. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. and listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com.com. Profiting.

Just go to Indeed.com slash profiting right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash profiting. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed is all you need. Happy New Year, Yap, gang. I just love the unique energy of the new year. It's all about fresh starts. And fresh starts not only feel possible, but also feel encouraged. And if you've been thinking about starting a business, this is your sign. There's no better time than right now. 2026 can be the year that you build something that is truly yours, the year where you take control over your career,

and it starts with Shopify. I've built plenty of my own businesses on Shopify, including my LinkedIn Secrets Masterclass. So it's a two-day workshop. People buy their tickets on Shopify. And then my mastermind subscription is also on Shopify. I built my site quickly in just a couple of days, payments were set up super easily,

and none of the technical stuff slowed me down like it usually does because Shopify is just so intuitive. And this choice of using Shopify helped me scale my masterclass to over $500,000 in revenue in our first year. And I'm launching some new podcast courses and can't wait to launch them on Shopify. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person, just like the millions of entrepreneurs that they power. You can build your dream story using hundreds of beautiful templates and set up as fast with built-in AI tools that help you write product, descriptions and edit photos. Plus, marketing is built in so you can create email and social campaigns easily. And as you grow, Shopify can scale right along with your business. In 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month

trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash profiting. Go to Shopify.com slash profiting. That's Shopify.com slash profiting. Yeah, fam, hear your first. This new year with Shopify by your side. Totally. And so there's lots of emotions that drive buying behavior. For example, like greed. If I make a decision now, I will be rewarded. Fear, if I don't make a decision now, I'm toast or I'm going to be fired.

Altruism. If I make a decision now, I'm going to help others. So everybody has these different motives to buy something. How do you suggest that you uncover what those motives are? Yeah, it's always interesting. because you will understand what makes people tick is different each time and some people are motivated by money or saving time and others just don't care and that happens over the process of engaging with people and as soon as is possible once you've earned the right to speak a bit more

as in you've got the sense that they're acknowledging you're of value here you need to get into questions and get the person speaking really again this comes down to warming them up And ideally, if I was, for instance, sending an email, I'd want to do that little win and start and suggest, you know, that we meet or speak on the phone or something like that. And when we go on the phone, there's that receptivity because we've decided to have this and they've agreed to it. And now I can ask them some really light questions to get the ball rolling. Because there's in conversation, if you study the way people interact, not just in business, but in general. In conversation, there's momentum. And momentum comes from both people.

It's kind of difficult when you have an interview because it's not entirely the same as an average conversation would be. But typically, there's momentum in that there's ebb and flow and back and forth and dynamics and so on. But in essence, if you're approaching someone, you want to condition them to speaking and neutralize them to the idea that they are going to be speaking. because if you pull at them nonstop, you condition them that they're not going to be speaking. So the way you do this, the way you open people up is with closed questions. Close questions being simple, yes, no answers or singular word answers just to begin with. And the more specific, simplistic questions you ask someone, the more they will answer them. And the more they answer questions, the more they answer the next question and then larger question.

And you can appreciate that the more interest they ask someone, you. take because they're speaking, the more you earn the right to ask the bigger questions. So what's like an example of asking a question in the right way and then asking a question in the wrong way? Well, in fact, the best thing to do is think about the smallest possible questions because they're the ones that nudge it along nicely. And the smallest questions you can ask are what's known as acknowledgement questions. And acknowledgement questions are ones where it's almost not actually a question. It's just things like, does that make sense? or right or it can be in just tonality or a pause.

And I've just done it there to get that mm from you. So it's things inside what I'm saying. So the way you do it is you ask. So does that make sense? Or you put tonality at the end like that. So it goes up at the end of a sentence to suggest a question or you leave a pause. And those two things can almost puppet. So master someone into speaking and just the little noises to start with can get the ball rolling.

But ideally, I want to move to a place where I'm asking something slightly larger than an acknowledgement question, which can be almost anything like within intent and meaning, how are you and how are things? Or did you see I'd sent that email? Or do you know Hala, who I spoke to the other day? Whatever it might be that you're in, I would use that. And that's your commonality that you used to begin with. And this is no different to, if I sit down with someone. one at a wedding and next to that person and I've never met them before. I use the commonality of the fact we're at the wedding and my in is, you know, how do you know the bride or something

like that? And as that person starts, the first few words are speaking, I'm not over the top with it, but a little bit of encouragement and those acknowledgement questions, oh right, and things like that just to nudge them along. And so what you're doing is you're setting a little spark and you're starting the process of tenderly soaking a little fire, it really is how it should work. Because in the main, when you approach someone in business cold to sell them, you need to take this approach of kind of really nurturing the little flame of a fire of a conversation, if you like, because after one, it really blossomed, but you've got to put the work in essentially. How about we go back to the sales conversation? As we were doing your research, we noticed that one of your

favorite phrases to use is, I'm your man. That bitch. Why is this phrase so powerful? Because it short circuits that part of the brain we talked about that suggests there might be some fear or overthinks things and worries. I'm your man requires a microsecond of thought, but you basically say it if it's technically something you could do, then it's a yes. And it's a great way of learning how to jump.

too much overthinking paralyzes you and throws up that oh but what if this happened and that happened and i personally find it exhilarating to worth a lot of things out as i go but i also back myself to be able to deliver certain things really well and and in the main if someone comes to me and say hey richard are you available to come to our company and speak about this this is what our company do it does it's like yeah i'm your man and then i'll work it out from there and that doesn't mean I'm winging it or making it up fully as I go. It's that I know the answer will be I can do it in the end. And I know that I will do a good job. And so let's jump because that saves me going through any hassle of thinking about the downside too much. I am very much a jump and build plane on the way down kind of person. So what I'm trying to articulate here is that the amount of thought I do put in is small, yet it is focused on, is this technically in my sphere? If it is, it's a yes. Right? Rather than, oh, I don't know, because there are different ways in which we could look at this and therefore I might not be quite right. It's like, no, come on, let's make this right for me. And if it off piece, then totally not what I do, then of course it would be a no. But I tend to be asked stuff around what I do. And the best thing to do is jump and say, yep, I'm your man. And that's fun. It takes you to some really exciting places. Yeah. Salespeople often get a rap that they can be really aggressive, right? And I think that the aggressive approach really never works. It's such a turnoff.

How do you advise that people be aggressive in terms of being proactive, but not necessarily turning off their customers with this aggression? Totally. The answer is that you need to be aggressive, but you're aggressive with yourself. What that means is you push yourself and drive yourself to engage with as many people as possible. You're aggressive with your research. You're aggressive with making sure you're displaying some empathy, that you plan how you say those first few lines and so on.

you know, spend as much time as possible training yourself too. And that's the key is that aggression lies within you for yourself and being ambitious, but it certainly shouldn't go out to the people you're trying to engage with. The difficulty we have here, and this is why people get spammed, people always say, you know, well, why are they doing it? Why are people starting a message when they've never heard of me before, never met me before with a cell? The reason why is because that if you get one point,

of receptivity in 800 approaches, that's confirmation bias for many. And rather than auditing the effectiveness, they're saying, do you know what? I got a yes, therefore do another 800 and I'll get another yes. That confirmation bias drives the kind of worked with companies where it's hundreds and hundreds of phone calls every week per person. And the majority of people aren't interested, but two a day will show an interest. and one a week will buy, therefore do it and all the time. And it's kind of soul-destroying, but if it makes you some money at the end of each month,

then that confirmation bias perpetuates it. What we really need to think is, rather than doing volume, put more stock in in being effective, it's far more fulfilling. But, you know, the truth is that sales typically is a money game as well, and when commissions involve, people don't want to put work in, they want their money. And so they cut corners. And in a world like LinkedIn, for instance, you've got 600 million people there. So because volume is a feature, you can afford to be an irritant because enough people will say yes.

If there were only 13 people on LinkedIn, you'd appreciate the approach is to be far more effective. And that's the problem is that people know that there's always another phone number they can call or another person. they can email and you should act as though there is maybe only a handful and treat them like they're going to be your best ever customer. The truth is though everyone knows this is just that it takes time and it requires effort and, you know, the very, very best salespeople that I've been fortunate enough to engage with and meet and see in action over the years, those that make millions every year, none of them do the spammy volume approach. All of them put the effort in. and understand the importance of empathy for the actual individual,

research individual that they're trying to reach out to. Totally. How about we talk about closing a deal? There's so many differing opinions on how to close a deal. What are your top tips for that? Yeah, it is interesting because a lot of people feel that you should always close and you should always ask regardless of how it's going. And the classic approach, which is so out of date,

is ask for the deal and that will throw up the objections and then you can handle them. But what that is is a very reactive way of selling in that you're basically you're just throwing an offer at someone expecting a problem and then trying to handle the problem itself. It's far better as being more preemptive and the best closes come when you've already warmed that person up and you've caught it the emotion a bit more and you've got them feeling that you're someone worth trusting in, someone that's confident. and that's got this and someone who can look after them. One of the most crucial elements in closing is that idea

that you're going to look after that person. And it's interesting that the natural or human approach is often one of a butmer, right? So I'll do everything for you. Here are all the options. You decide you're in control. But the truth is invariably buyers, emotionally prefer a seller to know what's what and to know what to do and to be able to prescribe a

solution. If you think about a doctor or an airline pilot or a barber or a tailor, all these people, you don't look for options as much as someone who is in control and knows what they're doing. So that assurance emotionally that you have got this in terms of understanding of sphere goes a very long way. In addition to that, I think it's very important to understand that being on the same kind of wavelength as that person, so being able to get along with them, banter if there is some there and having an awareness of the little things that is going on between the two of you. So maybe there might be some things to research. You have some commonality. Maybe you went to the same university or, you know, you lived in the same place or you know a bar

around the corner from where their office is, all the extra search is so available online. And having that to really make the point that you're here as a trustworthy person that goes so far when it comes to the closing side that there's this element of, do you know what, you seem like a person who's not going to take my money and run. So that trust thread is running through it all. But if I can be really practical, because I feel like, I feel that this could be a really good opportunity to give your listeners some real direct advice in terms of stuff they can do, there's a really important point which is that you should separate the value from the price when it comes to closing.

So what I'm saying here is really simply once you've described and summarized what it is you want to offer someone, at that point you should just check in and say, you know, in principle, what do you think? Well, as a concept, does this feel good? Before you're giving them the price, you get them to say, Richard, this is awesome. You know what, this is just what I'm after? they have to earn the right to hear your price is a good way to look at it. Rather than giving them the price in the package altogether, it makes far more sense to get them sold on the point and the value in principle.

Because if they're not sold at that point, you're just going to give them a price for something they're not sold on. Yeah. And they will subjectively then say, well, that's too expensive. So you check first that they emotionally and it may be illogically, as well, feel solid that this is a great value proposition. Then they earn the right to hear, great, so that runs for 12 months at this price. Sound good?

And now you're seeing the contrast or difference on now how they feel about something based on the price. So in short, if I'm getting someone saying, this is exactly what I'm after, then I've legitimized giving them the price because I know they'll say, yeah, I totally see why you charge that. But if I've got someone who's like, I suppose I don't. really, I don't know, it kind of could help us. Suppose there's no way I should be giving them the price.

That's not going to progress the call. It's going to ruin it. And what it will do is it'll take the level of interest down and it's definitely turning him off. I'm not there yet. I need to loop that and be a bit more candid and just understand. Like, where did I drop the ball? So be careful.

Don't close on the price until they've earned the right to hear it. And that's them selling you that they're convinced that your value's worth taking the conversation further. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. Hey, young improfitors. As an entrepreneur, I know firsthand that getting a huge expense off your books is the best possible feeling. It gives you peace of mind and it lets you focus on the big picture and invest in other things that move your business forward. Now imagine if you got free business internet for life, you never had to pay for business internet again. How good would that feel? Well, now you don't even have to imagine because spectrum business is doing

exactly that. They get it that if you aren't connected, you can't make transactions, you can't move your business forward. They support all types of businesses from restaurants to dry cleaners to content creators like me and everybody in between. They offer things like internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone TV, and mobile services. Now for my business owning friends out there, I want you to listen up. If you want reliable internet connection with no contracts and no added fees, Spectrum is now offering free business internet advantage forever when you simply add four or more mobile lines. This is a simple. just a deal. It's a smart way to cut your monthly overhead and stay connected.

Yap, bam, you should definitely take advantage of this offer. It's free business internet forever. Visit spectrum.com slash free for life to learn how you can get business internet free forever. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. What's up, young and profitors. I remember when I first started Yap, I used to dread missing important calls. I remember I lost a huge potential partnership because the follow-up thread got completely lost in my message. I remember, communication system. Well, this year, I'm focused on not missing any opportunities. And that starts with your business communications. A missed call is money and growth out the door. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled QUO, the smarter way to run your

business communications. Quo is the number one rated business phone system on G2, and it works right from an app on your phone or computer. The way Quo works is magic for team alignment. Your whole team can handle calls and text from one shared number, and everyone sees the full conversation. It's like having access to a shared email inbox, but on a phone. And also, Quo's AI can even qualify leads or respond after hours, ensuring your business stays responsive, even when you finally logged off. It makes doing business so much easier. Make this the year where no opportunity and no customer slips away. Try Quo for free, plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to Quo.com slash profiting. That's QUO.com slash profiting. Quo. No missed calls, no missed

customers. Speaking of price, I came across something very interesting that you've said in the past. Essentially, you say that people should raise the price point every time you get a sale. What's the logic behind that? Because you could just get infinitely high in your price and become uncompetitive. So tell us about that. Yeah, let me put some parameters in there. It certainly is for certain types of product because you may be in an industry where actually that's not a good way to do it.

So if I sold, you know, forward focus every time I sell one, I put the price up because someone's been willing to pay it, is going to soon get me to a point where I get a lot of resistance on it. Well, I'm going with that is certainly with the high to get products and services side of things. And what I have experience is if someone's keen on coaching, for instance, and someone's seen huge value in it, then giving them a price point where they're like, yeah, sure, that makes a lot of sense. it's validated that someone's willing to pay that, so you should test. Or what about if I went up by another $500? Or what about if I went up by another $2,000 or something? You should test it because it's a really good way of seeing what your price should really be. It's a good bit of market research, really.

And when I started doing online consulting with startups, I started at quite a low price point simply to validate to myself that I could close sales in this way. And then every time I got a sale, I just put the price up until, I got to this point where I thought, okay, do you know what? That's the kind of price point this deserves because that's the bit where people are like, yeah, totally get that. I'll pay that. And it's just a good way of testing if you're going too low or too high. But it requires a volume of sales to really get a handle on it, if that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great strategy, like you said, to find the right price point

and to also not sell yourself too short. You could be charging a lot more for your services, but you'll never know if you don't ask, right? Exactly. And I think it's important to understand it. It's all about the individual because value is a subjective thing. It's a perception. It's in the eye of the beholder. And I've been in meetings where I've done, you know, two hours of coaching to a senior team of salespeople. And they thought it was worth every single penny. And I charged more than I would charge for a month of coaching because I knew that this was solving this one problem they had right now.

It was literally putting out their fires right now. So the value to them was totally worth it. And, of course, there are other ones where it's maybe not quite as necessary, and so the price point reflects that as well. It's always ebb and flow with this kind of thing. It depends on the individual and their certain circumstances right there and there. Continuing on the topic of priced, what's your perspective on discounting your products? Is that ever an effective strategy? It's the case, typically, that everyone technically can afford your product, unless you haven't done that pre-qualification, we talked about it earlier.

So if I'm approaching, you know, people with a very low level of income with Lamborghinis, I'm not doing my pre-qualification correctly. But in the main, if you've done that bit right, people can afford your product. So therefore, it's feedback if they say your price points too much, that subjectively they feel your value doesn't match or you're asking them. It's your fault you haven't sold them properly. And so I'm very happy that I've got a system that works where I massively go all in on warming the audience first and they organically choose themselves and come to me and say, I'd like to buy your product. That means that the discount thing doesn't come up really at all.

The reason why discount typically is thrown at a seller is because if you don't have any point of differentiation, then you tend to find that the person, you can you. looking for a point of differentiation, so they'll say something like, well, what about if it was a lower price point? If you don't resonate with that person, if you don't get all with them on the same wavelength, or maybe if the need for your product in and of itself isn't entirely there, that's where sometimes a discount kind of makes sense to the buyer. Again, to basically differentiate and say, you know what, maybe we could make this in some way valuable or interesting.

Because if they're not sold on you or a. brand all the product, then lowering the price might make it feel a bit more validated. But in truth, you shouldn't have to discount someone who is a qualified lead. So someone who technically could buy totally the case. That makes sense. So I have a lot of friends who are in sales. And sometimes I hear the excuse that they think that their product isn't good enough or it's not sexy, it's boring. And that's why they have trouble meeting their quota each month.

What is your advice to people who claim that their product is too boring? Work on the basis that that's an excuse. Okay, always work on the basis that that's an excuse. I've had some really tough stuff to sell in the past and still managed it because sometimes you've got to take a step back and say, I need a different approach. Let's go and do some research, find some other people, get some different opinions from good salespeople on how they might attack it.

And you've always put a map back from the wins for the buyer. How would they win as a result of making use of your product or service? And are they going to look good? Are they going to save time or give them convenience? Are you going to make it the case that they make more money or save money? That's something to think about. But you give them a specific example here and I think it's a really good one, those that feel their product or industry is boring.

And it's such an important one. The truth is people by people. So if you feel your product is boring, no problem, don't talk about the product, talk about you express yourself. You know, do skits about the subculture of your industry. Poke fun at it. Whatever it is, do something that's going to draw people to you because one of the most powerful things you can leverage is human curiosity.

And it's the same as when you meet, think about it in the social context, because this is where I got the idea from, in the social context, if I meet someone at a bar or whatever in, just in social environment, that I find, you know, interesting or stimulating. Job one when you say goodbye to them is you check them out online. You go to Instagram, you go to Facebook, what's this person like? And it's no different in business. If you can do things that make people think, who's this guy? This is interesting.

A good number of them won't be able to help themselves. They will click on your name now they're on your profile. And if you signpost it enough, they will find their way to what you do. Those that might need you for the thing you sell, the widget you sell that's really boring. When they need you, you're the one. And the reason why you're the one is because buying your product, boring though it is, is at a time when they need it. And it's an example of another way in which they can consume you.

So people show up, for instance, for my show, and for some, it's like, deathly, deadly boring. Like, how are you doing a show every week on selling and business? It's so dull for some. But for those who enjoy the way in which I do it and my vibe, when if the time comes, they need something, I'm the one they think of because they like me more. And so the science shows it's best part of 60, 65% of the reason why someone, decides to buy something boring or not is down to how they've interfaced with the brand or person. So the advice is really simple.

Do things that make you more stimulating to them. And it might be a longer play in terms of content. Or if you're approaching people directly one on one, be the fun, interesting guy. And that earns you the right to talk about the boring thing. Because if you've identified the right person and they technically could need that and win from it, Well, then now they want to hear from you because you're a cool guy or an interesting woman. You see what I mean? So lead with being interesting.

Yeah. It's really great advice. And just to hit it home from my listeners, if you think you have a boring product, you, yourself, you need to be the interesting one, right? And you're the one who's going to draw on the customers. And then if they need your product, you'll be the right person to contact. And so I know that when you're building a relationship in sales, your main focus is really to build trust.

And you say it's really everything to get the human in front of the prospect. And nowadays, online, it's very impersonal. A lot of it is automated, text-based. So how can we be more human online? What's your perspective on that? One of the things I am really behind is because people are trying to leverage direct message or private messages to warn people up is to use. voice memos because all the platforms, even the like you're LinkedIn now, you can voice

memo it. And it's the way I operate. Firstly, you are so much more productive when you use voice memos because you can get so many more done rather than sitting around typing all day. But secondly, those little nuances so intent, emphasis, dynamics, meaning, emotion it comes to when you speak. And that's why we are not doing this. interview via text, we're doing it through audio so people can hear what I really mean and we can really get the meaning behind your questions as well. So voice memos are massive because they're very positively disruptive because firstly, no one can make a judgment on if they'll even bother responding to it by reading it because they can't. They have to click on play.

And it's like a little treat that you gave someone when they get that little voice memo. So they click on play and it's a nice little bespoke message just for them, you know, that We're not quite in a world yet where people are automating that and using bots for them. So using voicememowers is a really good example of giving yourself and showing more of the human because the more of the person, the face, the voice, the way you move. So video as well is a great way of building familiarity. And if there's familiarity, that's like the seed of trust. And that's why I do my live shows and that's why I do video because someone who's never met me,

Just like you and I, if we watch in our films and TV, we have a sense of who that celebrity is. We have a sense almost like we know them. That's where the connection is far more rapidly made than if I just did text. Young and profiteers. I know there's so many people tuning in right now that end their workday wondering why certain tasks take forever, why they're procrastinating certain things, why they don't feel confident in their work, why they feel drained and frustrated and unfulfilled. But here's the thing you need to.

to know. It's not a character of flaw that you're feeling this way. It's actually your natural wiring. And here's the thing. When it comes to burnout, it's really about the type of work that you're doing. Some work gives you energy and some work simply drains you. So it's key to understand your six types of working genius. The working genius assessment or the six types of working genius framework was created by Patrick Lensione and he's a business influencer and author. And the working genius framework helps you identify what you're actually built for and the work that you're not. Now, let me tell you a story. Before I uncovered my working genius, which is galvanizing and invention, so I like to rally people and I like to invent new things, I used to be really shameful and had a lot

of guilt around the fact that I didn't like enablement, which is one of my working frustrations. So I actually don't like to support people one-on-one. I don't like it when people slow me down. I don't like hand-holding. I like to move fast, invent, rally people inspire. But what I do need to do is and ensure that somebody else can fill the enablement role, which I do have, Kate, on my team. So Working Genius helps you uncover these genius gaps, helps you work better with your team, helps you reduce friction,

helps you collaborate better, understand why people are the way that they are. It's helped me restructure my team, put people in the spots that they're going to really excel, and it's also helped me in hiring. Working Genius is absolutely amazing. I'm obsessed with this model. So if you guys want to take the Working Genius assessment

and get 20% off, you can use code profiting. Go to workinggenius. com. Again, that's working genius.com. Stop guessing. Start working in your genius. Yeah. Let's stick on social media for a bit. Let's talk about your connections, right? You've built a big community on multiple social platforms. How do you actually go about taking those connections and following and turning them into clients? What's your strategy with that? So it's an interesting one because a lot of the people who I interface with are the

entry points to their own network. So the amount of content created and people who are maybe doing things similar to me, who are not necessarily going to close, but the reason why I still engage with them is that knowing that they have a network, some of their people will be going through to see my content, and they will kind of sell themselves a bit. To kind of answer your question directly, I don't do outbound.

I create a map back from a situation where people can't, help themselves and want to send me that message to say, I really love what you do. And I've essentially self-selected myself to need help from someone like you. What are the next steps? And what that looks like is being everywhere as much as you can through a system of repurposing and microcontent so that it appears that I have this abundance, but I'm not actually online all this time. and being useful to people against a very particular subject area.

So it takes time. You know, it's been almost two years, I've been doing it on LinkedIn now, but it moves you to a place where you're in people's conversations. You're in people's posts. They post about you. They tag you and so on. And you create that name and it takes time. And say it moves you to things where you get known, not just reputation,

but you get known for being the guy that does that thing. Yeah. So it's almost like word. mouth. Yeah, and I'm relying on that. And the truth is that I could gain it more. I could get into more DMs and close more more people. But actually, it is really fulfilling to create a world where I'm being useful to people and validating that I'm good at what I'm doing. And so those that would buy from me decide when it's right for them to reach out. And that is the best organic way. to do it. And you see, if you're okay, you know, if you have enough money to survive,

I suggest this be the approach. You can do outbound, but it's far better to say I'm actually good. So let's focus on being useful to people and let them come to me. And of course, when they do come to me, I will then move to a sales or closing process. But in the main, I kind of create as much as possible a situation where they take the first step, because I think that feels good for everyone. I love that advice. I think it's great. Richard, this was such a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. We always end our show now with this last question. What is your secret to profiting in life? Okay. I think, good question. It's thinking a lot about how my future self would act, but also thinking a lot about how my past self would act. if they were in the room with me right now watching what I'm doing.

So my past self, the one who had to graft and grind and bleed through his eyes to get here, imagine if that person was sitting here right now watching whatever task I'm working on or not. And to get ahead in life, I feel you need to ask yourself what, because that's the greatest accountability is to yourself. If past Richard was sitting right here right now, would he say, good, I'm glad you're honouring. all the work I'd put in? Or would he be really annoyed at how I'm slacking off? Likewise, is the future Richard also saying, like, seriously, can you just get on with it so that I can start to exist? Or would he say, awesome work. Well done. You're going to make me a reality. So thinking in a weird way about these multiple Richards has been a really good way of deciding if the

thing I'm doing right now is a worthwhile task to be working on. I love that. We've never heard that. We've never heard that one before. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do? Sure. So it can all stem from my website, the hub, if you like, so the richardmore.com, or I'm very active on LinkedIn. So I'd love to meet some of your guests there. If you go to Richard James Moore, all the word on LinkedIn, I'll be there as well. I'd love to speak to some of them. Awesome. Thanks so much, Richard. You're welcome. I'd really enjoy it. Thank you so much.