Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Shama Hyder: Marketing in the Age of Coronavirus | Marketing | E67

Episode Date: June 2, 2020

Learn the do's and don'ts of marketing during the coronavirus pandemic. Today on the show we’re chatting with Shama Hyder. Shama is a web and TV personality, a bestselling author, public speaker and the award winning CEO of Zen Media. She launched Zen Media at the age of 22 during the 2008 Great Recession. Back when Shama started her company it was one of the first social media agencies in the world. And now her company is now an industry-leading marketing and PR firm!  Shama has been named the “Zen Master of Marketing” by Entrepreneur Magazine and the “Millennial Master of the Universe” by FastCompany.com. Her books include the bestseller “The Zen of Social Media Marketing” and “Momentum: How to Propel Your Marketing and Transform Your Brand in the Digital Age.”  Tune into this episode to learn about the marketing campaign trends that are gaining popularity during the pandemic, how to market in a crisis while maintaining tactfulness and relevancy, and gain insight into hidden advertising opportunities during this time period. Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com

Hey everyone, it's Hala. Before we get started, I wanted to say thank you to everyone who has left us a review on Apple podcasts or a comment on your favorite platform. Reviews are the number one way to thank us. And reviews also improve our Apple podcast ranking. If I got a review for every active listener, YAP would have thousands and thousands of reviews by now and we would be visible to more listeners who could find value from our content. I'd like to share a recent review from Huss 973.

So awesome. This podcast has literally gotten me through quarantine. So well put together thorough and insightful. Hala truly is a breath of fresh air to listen to. I highly recommend to give it a listen. You won't be disappointed. Thank you so much, Huss, for writing such an awesome review. And I hope if you listen to Yap,

you'll also take the time to leave us a review or comment on your favorite platform. I'd love to hear what you think about the show. You're listening to Yap, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halitaha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life,

no matter your age, profession, or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of ex-FBI agents, negotiation coaches, world famous cartoonists, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and best-selling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, how to gain influence, the art of side hustles, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young and Profiting Podcast. Today on the show, we're chatting with Shama Hider.

Shama is a web and TV personality, a bestselling author, public speaker, and the award-winning CEO of Zen Media. Shama launched Zen Media at the age of 22 during the 2007 and 8 Great Recession. Back when she started her company, it was one of the first social media agencies in the world. And now her company is an industry leading marketing and PR firm. Shama has been named the Zen Master of Marketing by Entrepreneur Magazine and the millennial master of the universe by fast company.com. Her books include the bestseller, The Zen of Social Media Marketing, and Momentum, How to Propel Your Marketing and Transform Your Brand in the Digital Age.

Tune into this episode to learn about the marketing campaign trends that are gaining popularity during the coronavirus pandemic, had a market in a crisis while maintaining tactfulness and relevancy, and gain insight into hidden advertising opportunities during this time period. Hey, everyone. This is Hala from Young and Profiting Podcast. I'm here with Shama Hider. I'm really excited for this podcast episode. We're going to talk about everything regarding marketing in the coronavirus. So super excited to talk about this topic. Shama, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me, Hala. This is fun. Usually I do live on my own channel. So this is a little different, but I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. And we had like about 130 something people sign up. So

hopefully everybody is tuned in and ready to learn the do's and don'ts about marketing in the coronavirus. So before we get started into the nitty gritty of marketing, I do want my listeners to learn more about you as a person. So we do a ton of research here at Young and Profiting Podcast. podcast. And I know that you started your company, Zen Media, when you were just 22 years old over a decade ago. You also wrote a book that is used as a textbook for college students to learn how to use social media, which is huge. And that's in its fourth edition. You've had so many accomplishments. And I know you're probably not one to brag, but I would love for you to brag for a couple of minutes. Tell us about some of the biggest accomplishments

that's occurred in your life over the past decade or so. Yes. I think my biggest accomplishments have been those where I feel like they've added the most value to people. And it's funny because the older I get, the longer I go in business, I find that that becomes more and more important is, you know, how are you helping people? How are you adding value to their daily lives? And in our case, it ends up being, you know, their business lives,

which, of course, affects their entire life. So, you know, writing the books, you mentioned that of social media marketing, which is now in its fourth edition. And I love getting emails from students and messages from college students all over the world who use it as a text and then discover Zen Media or Discover Me. And it's just, it's really heartening.

I think that's cool. I've actually written a few books. So Zen of Social Media Marketing and Momentum was my second book. I'm working on a third book right now. So I like writing. I like being on stage. I like doing this because it just lets me connect

with so many more people and hopefully adds value to their, day, I think of all the things I'm most proud of is the team we've built at Zen Media. And what an amazing job that they do for our clients because without them, I mean, there is no company. There's none of this, right? So I think that's probably my most proud accomplishment is building this amazing team of people who show up every day, give their 110%. And the clients who obviously trust us to show up for them and help them, especially in times like this, right? Yeah. So that's, I think, looking back and even in the moment, that's definitely what I'm most proud of.

Yeah, well, Shaba's being humble. So she's on so many like 30 under 30 lists in the past. She has worked with huge global enterprises. She runs one of the most popular social media agencies right now. So congratulations on all your accomplishments. Thank you. Something else I wanted to touch on in regards to context and your background. And I think a lot of my listeners can relate to this is the fact that you're an immigrant.

So you came here when you were just. nine years old from India. Tell us about that. Tell us about how your parents kind of shaped you and your entrepreneurial mindset. Yeah. So that's a funny story. In fact, I just did a video on, for my YouTube channel on what it means to be an entrepreneur. And, you know, it's, it's such a glamorous thing, I guess now. And it's like there's this whole sex appeal to being an entrepreneur. But I can tell you, as anybody who's an immigrant and had entrepreneurial parents, you really grew up seeing the nitty gritty of things, you know? Yeah. And often when you are an immigrant, the thing that's most available to you is entrepreneurship because it's like, you know,

you eat what you kill, right? You've got to make your own opportunities. And so I saw my parents work very hard when we moved here. I think it shaped me tremendously because for me, none of this stuff, I don't take any of it for granted. You know, it's a very different feeling. It's a very, it's a deep feeling of gratitude. And I think you just kind of always have that. Like my husband I talk about this because even though he's not an immigrant, we both come from very humble beginnings. And that's a really nice way of saying we grew up not so rich. Yeah. Right. And so we look at our life now and we're like, wow, we just sometimes we can't believe that we're living this life and we've been given these opportunities. So I think there's

definitely that sense of gratitude and that sheer sense of awe that carries through, right, throughout a feeling like you are in many ways living the dream and not because of what you have, but because of the opportunities that I think, you know, this country has provided and, you know, sacrifices of our parents and grandparents. You know, my son has, is going to have a very different life, a very different childhood than either of us did because of the sacrifices his grandparents made. And so, like, as a woman coming from immigrant parents, did you feel like your parents tried to push you in any sort of way towards one career or another, or did they give you the freedom to choose whatever your heart desires? Yeah, my family is an anomaly in that way because I talk to a lot

of South Asian, especially, you know, kids and they're like, how did you get your parents to let you do? And to be honest, my parents are very awesome in that regard. No, you know, I think one of the things that the best gift that they gave me and my sister, and I hope that I can do this for my son, is they prioritized our happiness over anything else, over societal norms, what they, and because, you know, I think it's funny because I think a lot of times immigrants come here, and this is true for non-immigrant parents too, parents want for their kids safety, not always excellence. Yeah, security. They want to protect them.

And as a parent, I can understand that instinct. It's to keep them safe. So we try to steer our kids towards the safest. But I think my parents, and this was smart of them, realized there's really no guarantee. safety, right? They grew up thinking they would grow up in India. Then they ended up here. They always had to make sort of make it happen, you know, make their own opportunities. And I think I realized that, you know, safety and security is such a, it's such a ploy. It's such a fake mirage. There's really no such thing, right? Yeah, especially nowadays. Yeah. And so I think, you know, what's more important is finding

again what you're passionate about, but my parents were always very big on also finding things that, you know, how can you add value to people's lives? How can you make them better? how can you? And so I think for them, that was the important part. Funny story, not many people know this. Hala, when I graduated from high school, actually, I was very much with the cosmetology. And I want to go to cosmetology school. And, you know, and I had a full ride to UT. And when I was trying to make that decision, my parents were actually really supportive of both things. Like, not many parents would have been like, sure, don't go to college. Yeah, you had really good grades, do and that's like one of the, a really impressive school. So for them to be okay with you going to

cosmetology school just shows that they just wanted you to be happy. So that's amazing. And what funny is, in retrospect, I asked them years later, I said, why were you okay with that? You know, like that's, that's a jump. And they, I think it's funny because they said it's important to know your kids. And they said, if you had done that, you would have been one of, you know, one of these big YouTube beauty bloggers that we see. Like, you would have all done, you know. And I, And I guess that makes sense as a kid, too. Good wasn't ever good enough. I always wanted to go all out, you know, put on everything and everything that I did.

And I did it from a really fun place. Like, I got excited about it. And so I think my parents kind of knew that about me and knew that no matter what direction I went in, it would be something that I would embrace. Not that they didn't have their reservations, I think, as all parents do, right? Like, what's my kid doing? They trust you. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. And, you know, I have to say. I listened to an interview where you talked about your parents, you know, giving you the freedom. And it actually brought me to tears because I recently lost my father due to coronavirus, actually. And he was so supportive of me. Like my whole family is doctors. And so I'm totally the black sheep in my family in terms of like what I do.

And I remember when all my siblings were in med school around the same time, like somewhere in residency, some were in med school, some were taking their boards. I was running a hip-hop blog site at the time and, like, hosting concerts and showcases and interviewing celebrities, something totally different. And my father and mom, like, were always so supportive. They just never, ever told me that I was doing the wrong thing. And they just really believed in me. And even when, like, our family friends look down upon it and, and whatever. So, I can totally relate. And it is such a blessing to have good, supportive parents. And shout out to all all the great supportive parents out there. So I just want to share that. I'm sure my listeners,

you know, were curious about about that. And I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. Pella, I mentioned this in an earlier exchange. And I think it's testament to the way he's raised you that you're here doing that. I don't know how many people would be like this. He must be like he is. He's amazing. He was an amazing guy. He was such a hard worker and he just wants me to win. And I know that. So that's why it just keeps me going. So let's get into the meat and potatoes of this podcast. This is the do's and don'ts of marketing in the coronavirus. So Shama, I know that in the past, you've marketed through a downturn. You launched Zen Media during the 2007-2008 economic crisis. So now we're back in a similar situation. Not only do people have to worry about their health,

their physical wellness, they also need to worry about marketing through this declining. economy. So do you have any guidance in terms of your top tips for marketing during the coronavirus? And then we'll dig deeper into everything. Yeah. So I'll just touch back on something, Hala, just to wrap up our earlier point about supportive parents, and I think that's amazing. But I know a lot of young people are watching and listening this to you. I think it's just as important for kids, for in your, if your kids, I'm using that broadly, to make sure that you are worthy of that support and you show up in that way, too. And what I mean by that is I see a lot of people who are entrepreneurs or have these titles and they're still completely depending on their parents. I think you never want to take your family support for granted, right?

Like it's so important. I think one of the reasons my parents were so supportive and whatnot was, you know, they didn't pay my bills. I think it's very easy to be a hypocrite in that way and be like talk all this stuff on social and whatnot. But in the end of like the back end of your parents are taking care of stuff. Yeah. You know, so I just wanted to end that on that note, which I think is so important of, you know, when you have a supportive family, don't take that for granted, you know, I think. I totally.

You can't like have the wins without also knowing the struggles, right? So I think it is important in many ways I call like eating your ramen, eat your ramen, like put in your dues because at the end of the day, it's not where you get. It's that process. And it's really, and I think for parents too, when you shelter your kids from that, not doing them any favors. I think it's very important to let them see real world, right? Real world. Exactly. And then experienced that. So I just wanted to do. No, I think those are great points. You've got to earn that trust from your presence. Yeah. I just want to put a full step on that

in that regard. With regards to the coronavirus and what's going on right now, I know it's taken a personal toll of so many people from a business perspective. I actually think it's an amazing moment for so many businesses. I mean, that's a lot of what we've done media do. We, When clients have a moment, we help them build momentum around it. Sometimes we help them find it. A lot of times they know it. It's like, hey, we've got a leadership changer right now. Like, COVID, this is a moment.

This is a huge moment because what happens now people will remember. I think very similar to how companies behaved right after 9-11. People still remember that. You know, I have a client who won't fly a certain airlines because he felt like after 9-11, they were not supportive, that they, their policy, didn't make sense. And to this day, he just won't fly them. And so I think this is a great chance for people to build that customer loyalty. There's a lot of businesses that are not going to survive this stuff. And I think part of it is this is what differentiates businesses that have the grit.

For us, I think being started in a recession, you learn to work lean. You learn to work smart. I think the worst thing you can do right now that was act in fear and everything on the sidelines. That's such a big mistake. So I think businesses that are doing really well are the ones that are in many ways, it's a risk, but it's really not risky, but they're engaging. We're not waiting for this to pass because that just doesn't make sense. You only have to look at history.

So if you look at Shakespeare even, or you look at any historical figures, many of them lived through plagues, multiple plagues, and some of the best work was created then, innovations came about. And so I think for us to be able to treat this and in some ways to say, you know, what's always the stuff we wanted to do

that's been on the back burner. I mean, I can't tell you how many clients right now have pulled out projects from like five years ago. They got benched, right? Because they're like, oh, we just don't have time. And now they're like, this is a great time to look at me, man. This is a great time to do those things. So I do know for companies that are being very smart, this is your moment.

I mean, you have such a captive audience. People are watching. They're listening. They're tuning in. And so to not take advantage of that is just not a great business move. And I think a lot of companies, who haven't really started on their digital marketing journey or social media journey might be kicking themselves in the butt right now because they don't have the foundation.

So another question that I have for you, because a lot of people are turning to social media and everything is starting to sound the same in my opinion. So especially the language. So you hear unprecedented constantly. We're here for you. Everybody has this like empathetic tone language to their marketing communications. How do you suggest that people start to stand out amongst the sea of the same thing being posted over and over again in regard to coronavirus? Like what is your suggestion to stand out as a brand and be heard?

Walk your talk. Walk your talk and embrace your brand more than ever, right? I think people are getting hung up on these terms like, oh, we're using all these terms. But honestly, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you say unprecedented or critical or whatever. We all get the gist. And there's no harm in that. So it's not that use of language that I think is hurting us. I think it's the disconnect that people feel. And I think when somebody, maybe Serena asked,

you know, how do you benefit humanizing a brand during this time? Like how can being human make a business memorable? And I think that's exactly it. The problem people have isn't with the language. It's the disconnect between you're saying this, but you're not doing this, right? And so if you look at,

for example, I believe hurts, you know, there's been a big outcry because the CEO, and the execs got bonuses while they are filing bankruptcy. Or you kind of see this. And so you see this disconnect often. Companies, I think, are doing it right.

I'll give you two examples of, I think, you know, where it's been well received because it's connected. Carter's Kids Clothes. They did this great little video, which they used their kids of their employees, and they had this little rhyme. And it was just so heartfelt and sweet. And of course, as a mom who buys children's clothes, like it spoke to their audience.

I think that's the other thing. It doesn't have to appeal to everyone. It has to appeal to your target market. It has to make sense to your brand, right? So you got to walk that talk. So that's one example. Another example, Jan Marini's skincare, their CEO is this really cool guy. His name is John. He's read my books and he reached out to me. And they are actively trying to say, how can we help our resellers? Because they have spas and skincare facilities all over the U.S. that sell their products. And of course, when spas and such are close, consenters are closed, it's affecting their reseller business. So he asked me, they said, could you come on and do, you know, I did a fireside chat internally.

It's for their team, which was really great because they're walking their talk. They're not just saying we're here for our resellers. You're actually being there for their resellers. So the whole point of that was, you know, how can we help these businesses they reopen? What should they be thinking about, you know, how can they boost their revenue and bottom lines. It was great. Like, we are walking their talk. The third example I'll give you was another client of ours, One Dine, which offers guest technology to restaurants and hospitality. And if you can imagine doing anything in the restaurant space when all this has happened,

it's been slammed. It has not been easy, right? It's been just such a shitstorm. And what I think was was interesting was Rom called me the CEO. He's a very brilliant guy, great heart. I mean, I absolutely, I have so much respect for him. He called me and it was, one of those calls you get late at night. And when a flight calls you late at night, it's always a, uh-oh moment, right? You're like, mm, and that's that kind of friendship where, you know, we do message at odd hours because we both work late. But it was just one of those. I was like, oh, all this is just happening. He's calling. Like, I'm, you know, I'm thinking to myself, like, how do I, how do I get him to feel better and not be so scared? Like, there's,

there's a lot going to happen. And when I picked up the call, he said, you see everything that's happening. And I say, I do. And I'm just kind of, you know, I'm like holding my breath going. Here it comes. Like we've got to. And he said, you know, how do we double down? And I thought, wow, I don't have to. He was like, this is great. He gets it. He's not to ask. He's not telling me. I'm not having to do the convincing. He's saying, how do we double down? I thought that's so smart. Because he said, look, all our competitors, many of our competitors are going to be fearful. The restaurants that we serve and need us more than ever, how do we show up for our customers? And so we actually were to deploy their technology to offer contactless ordering and payment for restaurants to be able to turn. Any restaurant

could turn into curbside, pick up. Oh, amazing. So overnight, and we offered this technology for free. So you had 1,500 restaurants all over the U.S. being able to function and open because they were using this technology. Yeah. And we never had anything else, right? No drive through anything. They were able to just 24 hours and he got this deployed. for them, which is awesome because, of course, now as dining room start to open, guess who these people trust? Guess who these customers are like, hey, these guys were there for my time in need. They helped me, you know, stay in business. For a lot of them, they literally save businesses. And so I think that's the key. Isn't so much what are the words we're using,

but are we walking our talk? At Yap, we have a super unique company culture. We're all about obsessive excellence. We even call ourselves scrappy hustlers. And I'm really picky when it comes to my employees. My team is growing every day. We're 60 people all over the world. And when it comes to hiring, I no longer feel overwhelmed by finding that perfect candidate, even though I'm so picky, because when it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post noticed. Indeed, sponsor jobs help you stand out and hire fast by boosting your post to the top relevant candidates. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored ones, according to Indeed data worldwide. I'm so glad I found Indeed when I did because hiring you

so much easier now. In fact, in the minute we've been talking, 23 hires were made on Indeed according to Indy data worldwide. Plus, there's no subscriptions or long-term contracts. You literally just pay for your results. You pay for the people that you hire. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com.com slash profiting. Just go to Indeed.com slash profiting right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash profiting. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed, is all you need. Yeah, I love that. And I think you gave some really amazing examples. Lots of different trends are

coming out of this coronavirus in terms of marketing. I've noticed, like, graduation giveaways. So, for example, Krispy Cream gave away donuts to anybody who walked in with a cap and gown. That was super successful. Pizza Hut also did giveaways. And then there's also like the charity aspect. So Hawaiian tropic actually, you know, because nobody's going out in the sun, nobody's buying sunscreen. So they created this candle that smells like the beach. And they sell it on eBay for $25. And then they give the proceeds to like a beach preservation charity.

So there's amazing things that you can do that are good for everyone. They don't necessarily generate income. But they keep your brand alive during a time when you still need to maintain relevancy. So we both gave some examples of companies that. are doing it right, but there's definitely companies that are doing it wrong. So I think on Twitter, recently there was headlines about Walmart and Pepsi. They had a co-branded sign that was soliciting a COVID testing site, and it really, like, didn't rub people the right way. I think they meant well, and I think it just went under corporate branding's radar, so they didn't, you know, I don't

think corporate knew what was going on. But, you know, there's blunders like this happening, and people get scared to market because they're worried about blunders like this happening. And I think that they just need to be mindful in terms of their marketing and be tactful. So do you have any guidance in terms of how to have mindful marketing, how to ensure that you're relevant but also tactful and not doing anything that's going to go viral for the wrong reasons? Yes. Well, you know, that's a really great question. I think a lot of it starts with your team.

Do you have diversity in your team? And this is one of the things that I think I'll just share this. I think this is interesting. We work with a lot of international companies who want to market in the U.S. And when we look at their material, one of the things that we find, and this was actually true for one of our clients, why won't name? But they had a calendar that they put together. And as we flipped through the calendar, the team, we all looked at each other digitally,

and we were like, yeah, we were all thinking the same thing. And the client, it hadn't even, you know, hadn't crossed their mind. every picture in the calendar was a white family. There's like zero diversity. And it wasn't intentional and it wasn't like something. They weren't purposefully trying to be discriminatory or racist or anything like that. But their view of America from the outside was like it's a calendar. So we have white families, which within the U.S., like our team is like, hmm, that's not.

So I think a lot of times that stuff can get flagged if you have diversity and not just diversity in skin color and gender, but diversity in thinking, diversity of people from different, because you will see just by virtue of where you come from, where you're raised and how you're raised. Like you're talking about like the hip hop stuff, the blog that you rent, you'll have a different perspective than I will, right? And so I think it's very important to have diverse teams working on your stuff, working on your marketing. One of the things we really are proud of is that we have such a diverse team. You have different color and cultures and backgrounds because I think they just, it allows you to filter

stuff before it goes out to the public. I also think, you know, mistakes happen. I think with marketing, of course, they get amplified. I think the thing is to, you know, be apologetic, make your apologies and pivot and move on. You know, I just think a lot of times people will, are so scared. There's so much fear, but sometimes, you know, controversy isn't a bad thing. Like, look at Nike. They've written the waves of controversy. And so we've had clients that have had a moment where they've had a controversial event and we've been able to jujutsu that into something really positive and amazing. We had a campaign with that for Dippendots, you know, where someone in the White House at the time didn't like the brand and was vocal about it. And that could have been just a real

disastrous situation because we were able to create this campaign that responded. to it in a way that was humorous and lighthearted and about making friends. You know, ice cream and brings people together. I mean, that campaign, it was amazing. We had over two billion reach. It was, you know, more than four Super Bowl ads combined. So I think there's so many opportunities that even when you find yourself in a situation, I think the way to do it is really to act.

And again, not sit on the sidelines, not not communicate, but be creative. And I think that's where you have a moment. Anytime something happens, whether you perceive it as good or bad, you have a moment and the ability to then use that moment to get sort of, you know, your brand out there to be able to reach your customers. I love that. I think that's a really good point to say that even when you do hit controversy, it's up to you to know how to react properly to it. And it could work in your advantage if you do it right. So that's great advice. Thank you very much. You just mentioned that you have a diverse team. And something that I found very interesting is that Zen Media has started off as a remote workplace. A lot of companies right now are transforming into a remote work environment. But that's something that you had from the get-go. How do you Did you come up with that idea way back when? Like, what made you decide to have a completely

remote workforce? And do you feel like that's working to your advantage right now? Yeah. So it's so funny because when we started the company and I would tell people we're remote, this was like 12 years ago, they would look at me like I was crazier. They'd be like, what we, and then I would say, oh, we work in the cloud. You know, is that uptown? They'll be like, yeah, way uptown, right? So I think it's fun to it's fun. It's really fun to see people now come to a point where they're like, oh, this is great. Like it's funny because you've seen those memes I think go around.

It's like, you know, what led digital transformation for your company? Like was it the CEO? Was it CMO or was it COVID? Right? Yeah. It's forced people, like, into doing things. And this is what I meant by stuff that's been on the back burner. Like one day we won't get to it.

And it's just sped up that timeline. For us, you know, being remote right from the. start, it's just because I saw all the technology available to us. And also because I don't think I had bad habits. But what I mean by that is I started the company right out of school. And when I was in school, I was working and traveling and, you know, doing stuff from wherever. I didn't feel like I had to even be in the classroom to do what I was doing. And so I carried that, I think, over. And I felt like why would I force people to stay in an office work my way? when all I care about is the results.

And my team will tell you that I'm very results oriented. I'm very outcome oriented. So I'm less concerned about like people clocking in and clocking out. Like I've never cared about how much time someone spends on anything. I only care about what that, what gets done and the clients happy. Like if clients are happy and you're delivering and you're doing an excellent job, then I don't want to mess with genius. I don't want to mess with someone's vibe or perfection.

Like they've got what's working. work well with the team. That's great. That's what I care about. So I think not being a control freak definitely helps because I just don't feel like I need to be able to look over people's shoulder. Now that being said, if you are remote, you have to be very careful about the team that you build. You have to bring people on who do not need babysitting. It's got to be a culture fit. And remote culture is not for everyone. Sometimes when people come in and they're right out of college, I tell them, I'm like, you know, go work in an office, like have that experience. Sometimes people who haven't had that don't understand, but people who have a clear preference,

I think then you learn that about yourself to and say, oh, no, no, I do much better remote. Like, I know that about myself or I need to be physically with groups of people. So I don't think it's for everyone, but I think, you know, like I said, so many of our clients are even international. Our clients in Lithuania and Serbia, they don't care. They don't care where our office is. Exactly. They're never going to meet you anyway.

Yeah, that's amazing. I totally agree. And with technology today, sometimes it makes no sense to have an office location. For Young and Profiting Podcasts, I have members of my team who are in California, UK, Philippines, Nigeria. So we're all over the place. And that's the beauty of working in 2020. As long as you have like Slack, Gmail, you can get so much done. So that's really cool. So before we move on from marketing in COVID. I did want you to share these really cool insights that you gave on your LinkedIn live at a high level. I know that you had like a 13 minute piece on it, so I don't expect you to regurgitate that. But it was the three R's and the three Cs of marketing during coronavirus.

I think it would be helpful if you remember any of them yet. I don't know if you remember them all. I'm happy to do a high level. And if you, if anybody wants that video, it's on my YouTube channel, you can definitely go check it out, just search Shama entrepreneurship and you'll find it. So a couple of things. I think this is the new framework, right, that we have to think about as we move out of COVID as things start to reopen. The three R's and three Cs. And again, I'll do the high level.

So real, which we talked to that, like how do you keep it authentic? How do you connect with people in that way? Where it feels like, think about this, right? You're in my, well, it's my recording studio or recording studio, but you're in my home. This is a very real feel, right? When we're in, when we're zooming with people and we're in their living rooms or the other day, I was with a client and, you know, I had my nine month old and he was like, Mama, he doesn't say Mama, but it was his, we have like getting my attention.

You know, and I said, sorry, I got him here. And she said, well, no worries. I've got my two-year-olds here. So I think people are, I think we're hungry for the real. And I think campaigns that speak to that and are not out of touch, you think do well. Relevant, I think this is so important because we are craving. the relevance. It's like, how does this help me right now? And I think that's so important. This is why that moment is such an important. The businesses that are succeeding are the ones that

are able to leverage their moment, fully own their moment to say, this is how we are relevant to you. In terms of C's, you know, I talked about contactless and how I think for the near future, it's going to be different. I mean, when would you be comfortable, Hala sitting, you know, shoulder to shoulder next to a stranger on a point? That's going to take a while before. Or, you know, or I think the idea of keeping a little bit of distance, I'm definitely a lot more conscious about like, what am I touching? You don't really think about that before, but now we're just a lot more aware of that. Compact, I think this goes back to my first star, which I didn't hit on, but it's, you know,

repetition. Say it, say it again. So many times people are concerned, they're like, oh, aren't we bombarding people with our message? No, you are not bombarding anybody with your message. Like, that's a wonderful thing if that happens. If people see too much of you, Bravo.

Marketing has done its job. But I think so most of the time, 99.9% of the time, it's the opposite. You're not getting in front of your audience because people have things on their mind. I mean, repetition matters. This client I was talking to just yesterday,

and this is a great example of this Hala, he has been on my newsletter list, which you could check out at Zen Media. We do videos in all this content since 2009. 09. I didn't know it, right? He never emailed or anything. But he said, I've been on the list because I knew one day we would launch in the U.S.

and we would need you guys. And I was like, well, sometimes we need these things. I know you probably've had that experience with the podcast, right? People watch, but they're not, they're not proactively like waving their hands. And then when you meet them and something, they're like, oh, hi, I love your show. And you're like, you listen to the show. Like I didn't. And so repetition is really important.

And I think, you know, we want compact stuff. Like this podcast is a great example. You know, we want things faster, quicker bites, repetitive. I think it's why TikTok is doing well, frankly, right? It's quick, it's compact, it's repetitive. It fits a lot of the billing for that. So those are sort of high-level things in the sense of what you really have to do as business reopens.

Like this is kind of the post-COVID world. So I love that you just brought up TikTok. What a great transition. So TikTok just reached two billion users over the past, like, I think maybe it hit last month. And that's because a lot of people who thought that they'd never be on TikTok ended up going to that platform because like you said, it fits the moment. People want quick. People want to be uplifted. It's a, it's a platform that's full of funny videos and entertaining videos. What are your thoughts on TikTok? Are you on it? Do you recommend brands to get on TikTok? How do you feel about it? Yeah, so it's funny. I think it's a great platform. I think it's having its moment. I think certain brands, it makes a lot of sense for.

We do certain things on TikTok. I'm not personally on TikTok. I'm not active on TikTok. Part of it is because our platforms are LinkedIn. I'm doing more on YouTube. I think part, you have to know your own resources and where you want them deployed. I think this is absolutely key. For us, LinkedIn has been such a powerful platform. I have with almost 6,000, 40,000, 50,000, you know, subscribers. And so for me, a lot of that C-suite, our audience, our CMOs are for Zen and so forth, that's your audience. That's where they are. For some brands, I think TikTok's great. So I think, again, this goes back to your audience, your fit. What are you comfortable with? I don't like to talk up something just for the sake of it.

Like, oh, this is a great platform. Everybody go run and do this like, eh, you know, you've got to be smart about it. If your brand, if that's your audience, if you're a B2C, if you're entertaining, if that's great. Like, I love making Hey, while the sun shines. I think that's why Twitter, I had so much success with Twitter being just one of those early users and getting on it quickly. But, you know, there will always be something new. And I think that's the important thing to realize it's very easy to go chasing different things. It's consistency, though, that brings success, right?

Consistency isn't sexy. People want the next new thing, the next thing to help them go viral. And I'm saying this as someone who's like 80% of the campaigns that we do go by. viral, but they go viral for their audiences and they're very connected to business outcomes. So some of the campaigns we've done, you may never have heard of because they didn't go viral in that sense of, you know, everyone on TikTok is talking about it. Yeah. It's been viral in the sense that they move the needle for the client.

They got in front of their customers. I completely agree. I think that when it comes to social media, especially when you're starting out, it's better to focus on one platform, be consistent, build that audience, grow that audience there, rather than spreading yourself thin just to be on every cool up-and-coming platform. So I totally agree. I do feel that I'm interested to get, like, young and profiting I think might be a great fit on TikTok.

I'm interested in leveraging it. And I do see a lot more older people getting on that platform, especially nowadays. So if you have it, if you're looking for a new platform, I would suggest checking out TikTok to see if it may work for you over something like Instagram, which I think is like pretty much oversaturated and, you know, you need a lot of paid media in order to make a break on there nowadays. So any other up-and-coming social media platforms that you know about that you would want to share with our listeners, anything that, you know, has piqued your interest in terms of social media platforms? Yeah, I mean, look, anything video I'm excited about, you know,

and I think it's, LinkedIn continues to be my favorite right now just because I think they're working so hard and improving the platform constantly. And so videos, live streaming, like, that's really cool. And think, just look at the reach right now of this, right? Which I just, I find fascinating and I love you mentioned, you know, I think TikTok would be great for your audience. If you can, if you have the bandwidth and you can cut up more of these videos to put on there, I think that's awesome. So I just do think it's interesting what LinkedIn is doing. I'm a big fan of video. I've been Geng Huang Wan video for years. I'm actually doing a lot more on YouTube right now too. So I think it's interesting in terms of this goes to repetitive, right? How many platforms are you on? How much can you

really, you know, saturate with your message, with your brand? And I think this goes back to making sure you're providing value because what you don't want and what really hurts brands is when they do something because they think they're supposed to or that's what everyone is doing. And they find very quickly that the audience is turned off or it's not converting so well or it's not actually giving them the business that they had hoped for because it's not connected to business outcomes. It's not valuable. You and I could go on TikTok tomorrow and be TikTok influencers if we just wore our bikinis and hung out at the pool.

That's not our brand. Yeah. It's not a brand. And sure, like, I could get a ton more Instagram followers if I posted, you know, certain pictures. But it's like that's not at the end of the day of what I'm trying to do. And so I think it's very important to be true to your mission, to your audience and to give people what's going to be valuable for them.

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Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. So we have a question from Rollis. He says, do you prefer LinkedIn live or recorded shortened videos? From my perspective, I prefer live videos because they're authentic. And like Shama said, being real is really important right now. I think recorded buttoned-up videos don't tend to do as well. And sometimes you can invest a lot in them and then they don't even perform that well.

So when it comes to my videos, I like to either do like selfie videos and just throw them up. And sometimes the quickest videos that I put out there got the most likes. How about you, Shamo? What do you think? Yeah. So it's interesting. You know, I actually think the question, if I'm understanding it correctly, just because something's recorded doesn't mean it can't be authentic. So I'll answer it in this way.

Is it better to do these like polished videos, right, that you release? or is it better to do this style videos? And I would say, again, depends on your audience. Like you, Hala, I've also experienced when we do videos like this that are more casual, that are more honest, that feel more real to my point earlier. I think people engage better. I think they realize that it's not some commercially overdone production. It feels authentic.

It feels honest. One of the things that I do is I often record my lives and then restream them. And I don't think, I think that's awesome because, again, repetition. you give people, like for me, I have people all over different time zones. I have a huge international following. I have a following in the U.S. And so I'll often re-stream a live event twice because it gives both audiences a chance to tune in. Yeah, totally. And I do something similar. I don't restream, but I'll chop it up into microcontent. So that's the main purpose, actually, that I record these videos is so I can later chop it up and be repetitive, like you said,

reshare the content because most of my followers actually didn't, aren't. watching right now. You know, I have a lot more followers than are than who is watching this video at the very moment. So another topic I wanted to talk about was actually the vehicles of communication. So there's many, like I'll give you an example, email is a vehicle, mobile push messages, social media is a vehicle, direct mail can be a vehicle. What do you think is working in your opinion right now in terms of the channels or vehicles in which we communicate? You know, so I think there's, again, I'm a big fan of using multiple platforms too to get your message because like you mentioned, there's people who prefer live like we're doing now. There's people who prefer

email. There's people who prefer text. And so I don't think there's just one size fits all. And now that being said, I think you have to be consistent. So if you're going to do email, do it regularly, right? I love email. I still think it's a wonderful way to engage. If you're going to create a separate, you know, if you're going to do TikTok, I mean, do whatever you're going to do, be consistent because nothing, none of the vehicles you're listed, Paula, are overnight. They don't happen like this. I mean, you know, with the podcast, you know, I talked to this gal who was very upset with me for my advice, but I, she wanted to make her podcast go viral. And she had two episodes. And as you know, it's very difficult to make a podcast go viral. Like, you have to consistently build that community, consistently put out that great content, chop it up. Like just because you put it out there and you've done it once or twice doesn't mean people are going to come.

Even if you're a celebrity, podcasting is the great equalizer, as Jordan Harbinger says. Yeah, it really is. But the consistencies would pay off. It's not one video. It's not one podcast. It's not one email. Look at this guy who's been on my list since 2009, 2009, right? 11 years have been getting my emails.

How many emails do you think he's gotten? Yeah. Well, it shows off that the. consistency really can pay off in the end. So I have some data from a customer data platform called Amperty. And there are some clear winners in terms of the vehicles. I just want to share this with my listeners. Purchases made on social media have risen by 84.7% year over year. Purchases made directly from retailers' websites grew 57.9%. Purchases made in response to email grew 22.1% compared to last year. And purchases on most...

devices has increased by 23%. So there you go. Don't worry about emailing too much because it's working right now. More than ever, people are getting emails and purchasing emails and purchasing their phone. So make sure that you've got your social media, your mobile, your email strategy, everything is on point. Okay. So moving on to advertising, I think this is a topic that people are really interested in. Advertising is a funny one because I think a lot of, of ad spend is being cut right now, especially with industries like travel, financial services, retail, some of the industries that are not doing well right now are pulling ad spend. What is your take on advertising right now? Do you think that everybody should continue advertising

through the coronavirus? And are there any hidden opportunities that you can share? Yes. And, you know, the thing is, they're not hidden opportunities. They're open opportunities. Yes, brands, there are brands that are pulling back. It's a great time. I mean, I think in Rob's word, my client's word, to double down. You know, it's such a smart time because there are opportunities now that are available that you would never have. I mean, some of our clients that are smaller that have bigger competitors than them

are finding opportunities that we're able to take advantage of that they left a gap, right? I mean, I'll give you a couple of examples. So one of our clients, Forbes State is an amazing platform. It's like a Netflix for entrepreneurs. you can subscribe and you get all this content created by entrepreneurs and can help your business journey fuel it. And so when Southai got canceled, I talked to them and I said, guys, what about creating a virtual business summit using many of these speakers who happen to be friends? I know these guys. People were so excited about Sapphi. It's canceled. You serve entrepreneurs.

How about stepping in? And they said, sure. I mean, we pulled off that summit in like a week, right? And it was such a success. We had 2,400 attendees. That's just a lot. I mean, we'd countless downloads. It's just been an amazing, it was such a great idea, but it required acting fast. So I think that's the thing. You've got to move fast. The moment, right, that was their moment. Yeah.

Came, you know, eight weeks later and said, do it. It's different, right? It's like, you've got to take advantage of that moment. Yeah. And so, yeah, and I think there's so many great opportunities right now. You know, I see Danny E asked, how do you increase customer retention? Yeah. Part of this is great time to think about how do you think your customer?

How do you appreciate them? Jan Marini was a great example. I've done this for so many of our clients who've said, Hey, Shama, can we hire you to do a virtual keynote, to speak to our people to help, you know, educate our customers, much like I would do in the, you know, in live events, right? It's the same concept. So that's been really successful.

Chase Business is a client of ours. And we're looking at, you know, I'm going to do a webcast with them. We're creating all this content for their customers. and their customers, you know, the content is not around banking. The content is not around finance. The content is around helping their businesses succeed. So helping their customers succeed with their businesses. And Chase, as their bank, is empowering that as helping them through this time. So I think it's very important to think about your customers and say, how can we provide value? How can we, this is a great time to retain your customers. Great time because they need you. Yeah. They are captive. They will remember. We will remember the things that happen at this time. Emotionally, our memories are sharp.

People remember certain events. Like, where were you at 9-11? People remember. People remember, you know, where were you when the older, where were you when Kennedy was shot? Like for the older generation, there's certain things you remember really well. I don't think we're going to forget what's happening right now for a long time.

So the things that go along with it will, will stick. Yeah, I think that's really powerful. It just goes to show that you've got to keep communicating during this time frame. It's not a time to put your tail between your legs and hide and be scared. It's a time to show your value and help people and show that you care about the people that you're servicing, right? So something else I thought was interesting. Maybe you can shed some light into this is there's actually some opportunities with advertising in terms of advertising rates. can you explain to our listeners how rates are more affordable than ever right now? Yeah, so it's a supply demand thing, right?

When demand is high, supply is low, you pay more. When it's inverse of that, like right now you see that the supply is there, but demand is pulled back because you have a lot of big players who are scared, who are sitting on the sidelines who pull back. This is where smart companies lean in. And so that's in a nutshell how advertising works. Cool. Thank you.

So I would definitely go if you guys have, you know, been shy to use Instagram ads or LinkedIn ads or YouTube ads. Check it out. See if it's something that is more affordable right now and something that you can get into to promote your brand. So I want to move on to influencer marketing. So I personally in the past two weeks have been reached out like four times about sponsorship opportunities for my podcast. So I think influencer marketing is hotter than ever. Do you have an opinion on why that's happening and why collaboration and influencer marketing has become so popular? Yes, because it's smart. It's the cheapest. Well, it's the highest bang for your buck, right? It may not be cheapest in terms of what you pay for it, but what you get out of it, because when you are able to leverage a trusted resource already, and I've done influencer gigs for Microsoft and Bond and she's business,

and I've got a long list of clients that I've done work for as an influencer in the business space and the tech space, I think the cool thing is, you know, especially when it resonates, I'm sure, Hala, if you took on a sponsor, it would be because you feel like your audience would find that valuable, right? I think what's awesome is when you can create those win-win connections in marketing, which is rarer than I hope it would be. Like, it doesn't always happen with that much ease, but it's really cool when it does. And so with influencers, I think, you know, that again, the reach is there, the trust is there, the community is there. And you will be able to leverage that community is such a great asset to any brand.

And one of my C's is collaboration, right? It's to be able to partner. It's to be able to find these connections, whether it's with TikTok influencers, Instagram, LinkedIn, it doesn't matter. What matters is do they reach your audience? Does their audience trust them? Is there an overlap?

And I think that's really where it's key. Yeah. And going back to your three R's, real was one of them. And I think it ties to both. collaboration and being real. So that's awesome. By the way, shout out to my sponsor, Wa Kia, Water. Thanks so much for sponsoring our podcast. They're a sustainable water company. They are great. It tastes amazing, by the way. So our listeners will learn more about Waia.

Okay, so moving on from trends because platforms die, trends fade. Coronavirus one day will be over. You wrote the textbook for social media literally. So what are your textbook rules, I guess, or principles when it comes to marketing? So some of them we've covered, right? The idea of being real, and I guess it's a good recap. It's be real with what you're doing. Repetition is your friend. Collaboration is absolutely key.

The importance of being agile. I talk about five principles in my book, Momentum, and one of them is agility, being able to pivot. You see that now more than ever. Brands and businesses that are able to say, what's the moment? How do we act on it? Agencies like ours were able to be really nimble and move very quickly in the favor of a client. That's where you see brands really succeeding. The tougher brands are where they're so slow to take advantage.

And by the way, size doesn't have to do much with this. We have clients at the enterprise level who have a lot of, you know, they've been given a lot of levy from leadership and they can make decisions very quickly. And we have clients that are much smaller that you would think would move quickly, but are so mired in bureaucracy that they can't always say yes as quickly as they could. And they could, Nate, sometimes move that moment. And so I think part of that is just mindset. How do you become more agile? How do you stay responsive?

So TikTok for today, how do you take advantage of that? And so I think it's about thinking about those things and being not so much platform-driven or even so stuck to your message, but looking at what do people need, what is relevant in? the moment and giving people that. Wow, I can't believe we're like almost out of time. I just looked up at the clock four minutes left. That means I have to ask my last question. So the question that we ask everybody on the show is what is your secret to profiting in life?

You know, I think to always be self-improving. I'm a student and I think that's always my mentality. Even when I'm teaching, I consider myself a student. Like every day that goes by, I think about what I could have done. done better. What did I learn from this day? How do I pivot? How do I be a better version of myself tomorrow? And I think that's the key. You become a better version of yourself every single day. Lifelong learning. I love that. Thank you so much, Shama. Where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do? Well, thanks how it's. It's been a pleasure. Definitely check out zenmedia.com.

Tons of resources there. Also, my channel on YouTube, lots of videos on there, lots of content. and say hi. Awesome. Well, thanks everybody for tuning in, and we'll catch you next week on Young and Profiting Podcast. Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts

or comment on YouTube, SoundCloud, or your favorite platform. Reviews make all the hard work worth it. They are the ultimate thank you to me and the Yap team. The other way to support us is by word of mouth. Share this podcast, with a friend or family member who may find it valuable. Follow Yap on Instagram at Young and Profiting and check us out at young and profiting.com.

You can find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn. Just search for my name, Hala Taha. Until next time, this is Hala, signing off.