Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Steve Olsher: Conquer Your Niche | Entrepreneurship | E97

Episode Date: January 11, 2021

Want to discover your ‘What’ in life?    In this episode, we are chatting with Steve Olsher, founder and editor-in-chief of Podcast Magazine, award-winning author, and founder of the Reinvention Workshop. Throughout the course of his life, Steve has had the ultimate entrepreneurial spirit and has created several multi-million dollar companies from the ground up. He is also a New York Times bestselling author with his book, What is Your What.   In today’s episode, we chat about Steve’s childhood, how became an entrepreneur in college, and his experience with online sales in the beginning of the internet. We’ll also touch on how he got to where he is now in the podcast world, how Podcast Magazine came to be, how you can discover your ‘what,’ and how to niche-itze your idea.   Sponsored by Podcast Republic: https://www.podcastrepublic.net/podcast/1368888880   Hala’s Podcast Magazine Feature: www.podcastmagazine.com/free   Recommended Episode To Listen To Next, #60 with Evan Carmichael    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/60-surviving-entrepreneurship-with-evan-carmichael/id1368888880?i=1000469316006   Castbox: https://castbox.fm/episode/60%3A-Surviving-Entrepreneurship-with-Evan-Carmichael-id2827072-id258784066?country=us Sponsored by Podcast Republic: https://www.podcastrepublic.net/podcast/1368888880   Recommended Episode To Listen To Next, #57 with Jordan Harbinger:    Apple:    Social Media:   Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Follow Hala on ClubHouse: @halataha Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com   Timestamps:   00:45 - Steve’s Childhood and His Natural Entrepreneurial Spirit 04:34 - Why Steve Created a Club in College 11:19 - Reason for Moving Liquor Sales Online 18:25 - How He Overcame Failure 22:09 - What Drew Steve to the Podcast/Radio World 25:45 - Podcasting Back in 2009 30:57 - Story Behind Podcast Magazine 37:30 - Balancing Digital vs. Print Magazine 40:17 - How to Choose Cover Stories 45:39 - Steve’s “What” 52:59 - Discovering Your What 54:30 - What You Should Be Feeling When Finding Your What 56:20 - How to Niche-itize 1:00:06 - Why the Clubhouse App is so Interesting 1:06:31 - Steve’s Secret to Profiting in Life   Mentioned in the Episode:   Podcast Magazine: https://podcastmagazine.com/ Hala’s Cover Feature in Podcast Magazine: https://podcastmagazine.com/hala-taha-podcastings-palestinian-princess Steve’s Book, What is Your What: https://whatisyourwhat.com/ Steve’s Website: https://steveolsher.com/ To get a free Lifetime subscription to Podcast Magazine, head here: https://podcastmagazine.com/free

You're listening to Yap, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halitaha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession, or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast. And that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of ex-FBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and best-selling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, how to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more.

If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young and, profiting podcast. In today's episode, we're chatting with Steve Ulshar, founder and editor-in-chief of podcast magazine, New York Times bestselling author of What Is Your What, and founder of the Reinvention Workshop. Throughout the course of his life, Steve has had an incredible entrepreneurial spirit, creating several multi-million dollar companies from the ground up. tune in to hear about Steve's childhood, his wild entrepreneurship experiences in college, and his forte in online sales way back when the internet was first getting traction. We'll then touch on how Steve immersed himself in the podcasting industry and how he came

to be the founder of podcast magazine, which skyrocketed him to the top of his field. By the end of this episode, you'll understand how to discover your what and nicheatize your idea, too. Before we get started with the show, I just want to say a quick thank you to Steve Ulcher. He actually put me on the cover of podcast magazine for its January 2021 issue. And it is one of the biggest highlights of my podcasting journey. And so I appreciate that opportunity so much. I actually was interviewed by Steve about two months ago for, you know, an article in podcast magazine. I thought it was just going to be this little article.

I didn't think much of it. And at the end of the interview, he told me he was so. blown away by my story that he wanted to put me as the cover feature and I just couldn't believe it. I mean, other people who have been on that magazine or John Lee Dumas who was just on Yap last week, Joe Rogan, Hal Alrod, Katie Couric, Jenna Coucher. I mean, these are huge names, huge podcasters and to think that I'm in the same lineup as those people is just so, so motivating and inspiring and just really gets my gears going. I am so ready for 2021 and having this opportunity is just such a blessing.

And thank you so much, Steve Ulcher, for giving me that shout out. I am definitely not as big as those other people that you've had on the covers. And you gave me that opportunity. You gave me that recognition. And I will always be grateful for that. If you want to check out my cover story feature in podcast magazine and get a free lifetime subscription, head over to podcast magazine.com slash free. Hey, Steve, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.

Appreciate you having to me on. Yeah, of course. I'm super excited for this interview. I think it will be a lot of fun. I think we have a lot of similarities. So you are a serial entrepreneur. You've been involved in multiple different industries from e-commerce to the beverage industry to podcasting.

And so you've got a whole range of experiences to talk about. I wanted to start a lot of. off with your childhood. So you grew up in Illinois, and from my understanding, you were born and entrepreneur. You've always had this entrepreneurial spirit. So in your own words, talk to me about your childhood and maybe share some memorable stories in terms of your entrepreneurship as a child. Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, people talk about how entrepreneurs can be made or they're born. and, you know, I mean, that argument's been going on, nature and nurture, whatever, for millennia. I don't know.

I mean, I think that entrepreneurs are born, right? I mean, I just think it's in their DNA. Some people are just naturally born entrepreneurs, and I think some are just not built that way, right? So for me, man, from as long as I can remember, I mean, my parents split when I was seven. And I think that kicked in some of that fear and scarcity and just concern about money. I mean, we, from the time until I was seven, my dad made pretty good money, definitely middle class.

But then when my folks split, mom took all the kids. My brother was in and out of mental institution, so he was not well. My sister was older and she had her own private Idaho things going on. And mom really hadn't worked ever. And so for her to be able to take care of three kids and then get thrust into the workforce, just it was, it was, things, things were tight.

I mean, if you looked at our home, you would say we were probably lower middle class at that point. I mean, definitely still had the roof over the head and whatnot. But, I mean, there were roaches in the kitchen. There were mice running around every now and again. And I'm never going to say that, I'm not, you know, I never missed a meal. But there's no doubt that for me, some of that scarcity kicked in. And it just really felt like, you know, I got to do whatever I can do here to try and bring some money.

And, of course, being 7, 8, 9, 10, you're too young to do some things. But by the time I got a little bit older and a little bit stronger, as soon as I could pick up a rake and try to move some leaves around or grab a shovel and shovel sidewalks and driveways or, you know, save up some money and buy a lawnmower to mowls, I've just I've just really just always been wired to try to rub a couple of dimes together and make a quarter, right? So, yeah, as far back as I can remember, it's not that I've been obsessed with making money so much as I think I've just been obsessed with not wanting to live in any sort of fear around money. And interestingly, that really hasn't gone away, you know.

I mean, we still draw those lines in the sand. And it's just like, now that I have X number of dollars in the bank, it's just still one of those. things where it's like, oof, you know, I feel like I need why number of dollars in the bank. So it's really interesting how that almost, well, not for everyone, but for me anyway, it really hasn't gone away at something I'm still trying to work on to this day. Yeah, that's so interesting. I know your motivations have changed a lot over time and we'll get into that and some of the pivotal moments in your life. That's really cool. And I can definitely relate, you know. I was very similar. I actually grew up, but I think in an upper middle class home, my dad was, you know, grew up really poor in Palestine,

but he was pretty successful by the time he came to America. But I still had that itch. I was always selling stuff. I was selling books. I was selling flushies, like whatever I could do. And I can get that. I think, you know, it's just like you said, you're just kind of born with it. One of the most interesting things that stood out to me in terms of you being an entrepreneur

in your younger years was that you started a club, a nightclub called the Funky Pickle. when you were in college, which is pretty insane and really cool. So tell us about that. Why did you do that? And I really loved how you really targeted a specific market. So early on, you were smart enough to do that. So please share that story with our listeners. Yeah.

So I always had a love for music. Where I grew up was technically we lived in Skokie, but it was the Evanston School District of Skokie, which is just north of Chicago. So I went to all the Evanston School. So I'm even from a young age, I was pretty darn confused about things. But, you know, we called it Skevenstyn because, again, Skokie, but the Evanson School District. Anyway, the Evanston School District was very, very mixed.

About 40% white, 40% black, 10% other, let's say. And 10%, whatever. My math is, you can see how well I'm doing this morning with Mathis in the early hours here. But you get the point. So it's very mixed. And I always gravitated largely towards the black community. Just always loved R&B and hip hop. And most of my friends were black in high school.

And so I've always gravitated towards black music, black culture, and so on. And so I'd played drums for a number of years. And eventually got to the point where I was like, you know what? I got kind of tired of that. And I traded in my drums for turntables. And I started DJ. And this was around 16, 17 or so. And again, I always had a love for black culture, black music, a lot of hip hop.

But what really caught my year was Chicago. house music, specifically kind of the old school gospely, you know, woman, strong woman singer, strong male singer, just like that really soulful house with a lot of instruments and bass and strings and horns and, you know, the whole nine. And just always, always had an ear for what I thought would sound really good on a dance floor. And so started DJing, built my reputation around that deep Chicago soulful house and built up a pretty good following. Went to college and started DJing

in a lot of the clubs. I went to Southern Illinois University at Carbondale, which was the bottom of the state there. And I went there because my guidance counselor had told me when I asked, I was like, you know, I don't want to go too far from home, but I don't want to be so close to home that I'm going to be coming back

or living at home or something of that nature. And the guidance counselor basically said, well, are you familiar with Southern Illinois University? And I was like, no, I've never heard of it. I don't, you know, not familiar with it at all. she's like, well, it's farther away from Chicago than any Big Ten school, but you can pay in-state tuition if you go there. So I was like, oh, magic sauce, count me in, right? So in-state tuition, far away from home.

And that's where I spent the best 36 years of my life, I think, down at college there. But no, with all seriousness, DJed in the clubs and had built up a pretty decent following. And I got to the point where I was like, you know what? I wonder if I can open up my own club. And at that point, I was about 19 and a half, something of that nature. And I knew it couldn't be an alcohol club, right? And we couldn't serve booze there because I wasn't of age myself. But I did think that there was an opportunity to create a non-alcoholic club where we would cater to the teenagers early.

And then southern Illinois, there just wasn't a whole lot for teenagers to do. So I thought maybe we could cater to those who were 18 and under maybe from 8 p.m. to maybe 1130 or so. And then we would close down. and we would clean up, and then we'd reopen at midnight, and we'd be able to stay open as long as we wanted for those 18 and over, and because all of the bars that served booze had to close, you know, because of licensing at 1.30, I figured there's probably going to be some people who are going to want to still hang out.

And so we'll reopen at midnight, and people already have their fill, and they'll just want to come and hang out and dance, and ended up writing a business plan for that and raise the money that we needed to raise for it and built it in about four months or so in total. And yeah, lo and behold, right before I turned 20, or maybe it was right after I turned 20, whatever it was.

We, in fact, did open the funky pickle, as you said, it was named. Yeah, really interesting times. That sounds like so much fun. It must have been such a blast to do that when you were so young. And how did it end? Like, how did you close that chapter off? What happened? Well, I mean, like any business run,

by a 19, 20-odd-year-old, right? I mean, you're only going to be able to take it so far. But the reality is we did it really well. I remember opening night. There was a, it's going to be a little bit difficult to explain, but there was a one-way street that was a three-lane road that all the cars would come down heading towards what was called the strip there on Carbondale. So our nightclub was on the strip.

And I remember opening night, we had built up such a buzz around this, I guess, you know, kind of those early marketing days and just trying to get the word out about what I'm doing. And we had built up such a buzz that the crowd waiting to get in literally blocked traffic. So there was about a thousand people outside blocking all three lanes of traffic. The cops had to reroute people and it was really, really crazy. And yeah, we had a really good run. You know, it was a cash business and cash businesses can do pretty well for you in a lot of ways. And ultimately, I had a falling out with the investor who provided all the capital that we needed to open, which in hindsight was pretty minimum.

We only invested 25 grand to get 50% of the club. But, you know, that's at the time. Didn't have the 25 grand. It's what he invested. And over time, we had a falling out. And he and my manager ran with it. And I walked away. Cool.

Well, it's interesting. You know what? All those experiences probably helped you later in life. like just learning how to manage a club, promoting the club. It probably helped you a lot later on. So let's talk about later on. You started an e-commerce business. It was called Liquor by Wire, I believe,

and you launched it on CompuServe's Electronic Mall back in 1993. So most of my listeners probably were born around that time. And not to just poking some fun. But anyway, A lot of people don't even know what CompuSor's electronic mall is. I barely know what that is. So if you can explain to us, like, what was the Internet like back then? And how did you get the idea to launch a liquor store online?

And how did it go? Yeah, so my grandfather started foremost liquor stores in Chicago back in the 40s. And so the liquor business was a part of my family. And actually, when my parents split, that was the work that my mom went and did as she went to go work for my grandfather. And so we had a number of stores throughout a number of different states. We actually franchised the stores. So my grandfather had started formal liquor stores and began franchising out those locations to other people, other states, etc.

So after the nightclub, when I went back to Chicago, my mom asked me to come and try to help out with the business a bit. And there was a very small piece of that foremost puzzle, which was called at the time, foremost liquor by wire. And so if you're familiar with FTT and like how FD works for flowers, right, and florists and so on, that's pretty much what we did in terms of if you were in California and let's say your business associate closed a deal in New York, you'd call us and then we would arrange for a local retailer to deliver that bottle of champagne to that person in New York, right? So over time, we ended up serving over 40 countries and whatnot. But when I first got there, it was just a teeny, tiny, tiny little piece. As a matter of fact, way back in the day, people used to call on an 1-800 number, right, to place orders. Like, there wasn't even an opportunity to place orders online. So they would call an 800 number to place those orders.

We would go days without the phone ringing at all, right? So if we got two or three orders a week, that would be a busy week. And I just felt like there was a lot of potential there. And so I started focusing on that and we launched a catalog to support that business in 1991. Around 1993, early in the year or so, you started to see, and this is just going to seem like a ridiculous concept to a lot of people, but you started to see these CD-ROMs popping up in little boxes at the grocery stores. and there would be a CD-ROM for America Online or a CD-ROM for Prodigy or a CD-ROM for CompuServe. And basically, you would take these CD-ROMs home and you would load them into your computer. And that would give you access to this online world that was either, well, if you just think about the different continents, it was like all of these different continents.

And you would be on one continent. Well, CompuServe was one of those, so-to-speak, continents that existed online. So it was just a community onto itself. with lots of rooms and lots of things to do, et cetera, et cetera. One of the pieces that they had was their electronic mall. And so I looked at that and I said, you know what, be kind of interesting if a liquor by wire opened a store on CompuServe's electronic mall. And so back in the day, CompuServe was the real deal.

I mean, that was where people were going. It was CompuServe and it was AOL. Those ended up being the two biggest players. But there were millions of people using both of those platforms. So sure enough, we opened a store, and sure enough, orders started to come in. And those were dial-up days, and this is, again, going to be hard for a lot of people to wrap their arms around. But if we had a GIF or J-Pag up of a bottle of wine, as an example, it could take up to, like, a minute or more for that whole GIF or picture, if you will, to load line by line by line of that bottle of wine. So needless to say, people had to be incredibly patient to figure out what it is that they wanted.

And just to make it even more complicated, if we got an order, it then came into us by fax. So we would then get the order by fax machine. And then we would have to process it and all the whole night. So those are some very interesting early days. And of course, things evolved from there. But yeah, that was CompuServe. And for a long time, compiCir did really, really well. And then they shot themselves in the foot.

Yeah. It's so interesting how things have evolved and how much things have changed. So you would think that you launched one of the first e-commerce sites for liquor. I think you even had the domain, liquor.com. Why are you not a gazillionaire, liquor mogul? Why are you not Gary Vaynerchuk right now? What happened? Yeah.

No, it's funny. So I've known Gary for a long time. Obviously, we ran in a lot of the same circles. After CompuServe, we did launch a fully functional e-commerce site in 95, ironically, the same year that Amazon launched a fully functional e-commerce site. And we were doing really well for the next few years. We did really well. We did buy the liquor.com domain and the bourbon.com domain for $7,500 back in 1998.

And so the company became liquor.com at that point. And we were doing well. But what ended up happening was we basically got blinded by the dot-com light. From the standpoint of around 1999, you started to see a lot of venture capital, of money being poured into the world of the internet. And there were people who were literally getting millions of dollars just simply by sliding over a napkin and saying, here's my idea, right? And they would get funding. And we're sitting there scratching our head going, geez, we've got a category killer domain. All of the quote-unquote heavy lifting is done.

We just need money to market this thing and scale it. And so we figured, okay, fine, if they can get venture capital, we can get venture capital. So we started, going in that direction and made one of the worst entrepreneurial decisions, I think, ever in the history of entrepreneurship, which is, as we began to talk to some of the folks who felt like they could help us and raise some money, they told us that we needed different management. They told us that we needed the CEO who had experience in the gray hairs and the CFO and the CTO and, you know, the WTFs and like all these lettered saviors. And it's just kind of like, okay, if that's what you think we need, that's what we need.

And at that point, I had been working with my mom. We had been working solely on this after we sold off the foremost pieces in 1994. And we bought in, hook, line, and sinker. And sure enough, we did that. We signed away our management rights and brought in these people. And we had the S-1 filed and we were ready to go public in March of 2000. And that's when the big bubble burst. And so we were literally a week away or so from going public.

and everything imploded. And so it was impossible to recover from that. And I walked away from everything in August of 2000. So I ended up reclaiming the domain. There's another story there and whatnot. But it certainly was never the same after that. At Yap, we have a super unique company culture. We're all about obsessive excellence.

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And what did you pivot to after that? Yeah, it did. You know, so much of my identity was really caught up in being kind of this liquor.com guy. And the interesting thing is, you know, to this day, I'm not a big drinker. Like, I've never been a big drinker. I mean, as we've discussed, I actually opened a non-alcoholic club, right? So I've never been a huge drinker. I mean, I like an occasional beer or an occasional something, but it's not like I've got this fancy bar at home and I'm making all these crazy drinks and, you know, got these round sphere like ice cubes, you know, and all that stuff going on. But for whatever reason, my identity was really caught up in being that liquor.com guy, right? And so,

So it was hard. I mean, it was really hard. I remember we had bought the building that we worked in, my mom and I with the team there. And it was close enough to my home that I could walk to and from work. And so I remember walking home after quitting, basically just saying, you know,

I can't do this, I'm out of here and left it to the other people to do what they needed to do there. But, you know, the reality is that I came home. I sat on the stoop of, of our home, cried it out a little bit and knew I had to come upstairs and tell my wife, Lena, about what happened. And she had a son when she was younger. And so I met him when he was 10. So, you know, I knew that I had to do what we needed to do to take care of the family, right?

And so I really couldn't sit by and just kind of wallow in it. I had to figure out what to do and I had to figure out what to do pretty quickly. And interestingly enough, about maybe two weeks or so before all of this happened and I walked away, I remember I was in a gas station. And I remember there were a couple of friends they were talking. One was the clerk behind the counter and his friend was talking to him about this real estate deal that he had just done, that he had just completed, where he was talking about how he bought a condo. and technically he didn't buy it.

I think he just said that he had the contract, I think, for it. And then he flipped out of the contract before he even closed on it and made like 50 grand. Because this was the point in time where the real estate market had started to really start to just, I mean, go kind of nuts, right? Right after the dot com boom, there was the real estate boom, right? And then there was the dot com bubble. And obviously we know about the real estate bubble in that burst as well. But at the time, everybody was talking about real estate. And I was like, you know what? Let me see what I can do here because we lived in a multi-unit building that we had bought.

And we were making enough money off of the other units that it was paying for our mortgage. And we were actually making a little bit of money every month. So I was like, well, this is kind of cool. And if everybody else is doing this real estate thing, maybe I can do it. And that's what I dove into next. I started jumping into the world of real estate development. Very cool. And then now, okay, so you were saying before,

how you were very caught up in your identity as the liquor guy, and that was a little bit hard to overcome. Today, you're known as the podcast guy. You're everything podcasts, right? And so you went to real estate, but then somehow you found yourself in the radio and podcasting world. I think you started your first podcast back in 2009. And now you're the CEO and editor-in-chief of podcast magazine, which is the biggest and, you know, most notable podcast magazine out there. So what drew you into the radio and podcasting world. How did that come about? Yeah, it's interesting. So radio to me has always been kind of a holy grail. Like I've always loved radio. And I thought for a long time that maybe I could be a DJ and just have a radio show. And it was something that I had kicked around the idea for a number of

years. And life happens. You do other things. Whatever, right? So you just focus on what you can do in that moment and DJing it on the radio was just nothing that ever really presented itself as an opportunity. So I did other things, but in the back of my mind, I'd always just felt like, yeah, you know, I would just really love the idea of doing something on radio. And I came across podcasting, as you said, in around 2009, and I was like, well, this is super cool, right? It's basically like, okay, I guess I could have my own radio station, so to speak. And so as I started looking around and it piqued my interest again, I bought broker time on a local radio station in Chicago.

So I bought some broker time on an AM station, small AM station in Chicago. And I was paying a fairly decent dollar for it. And I just, and I was sitting there thinking, I was like, you know what? If no one is sitting there listening at this exact moment in time, and they have their radio on and they're on this exact channel, no one's going to hear me.

And right? I mean, it's just so much, so much of radio goes unheard because you just literally have to be there at that exact moment in time. to hear what's going on, right, on that exact channel. So I'm sitting there and I'm paying this check and I'm writing these checks and then I'm taking the show itself and I'm stripping out the audio from the radio show and I'm saying, you know what, let me put this out as a podcast.

And we were getting more downloads on that show as a podcast than I was getting in terms of people calling in or it was just, it really didn't seem like anybody was listening to the show on the radio. So I was like, you know what? Forget this noise. I'm just going to go ahead and start doing this purely as a podcast. And so that's where I dip my toe in the water. And I was like, you know, this is really interesting

because people can listen to you at almost any time, almost anywhere, and of course on their preferred device. And that just felt a lot better to me than just the way that radio is structured in terms of just pushing things out at people versus podcasting where the consumers really pulling the information or education or whatever it is that they need and want in that particular moment. And so it's almost the equivalent of like a 100% opt-in rate or email open rate, right? If you have an email subscriber list, when somebody pulls that episode and they listen to it,

it's the equivalent of basically like a 100% email open rate and a 100-percent email click-through rate, right? Because 100% of the people are raised in their hand to say, I want that. So I was like, yeah, this holds a lot of potential. And I kind of danced around it for years and we can go into some more of the current stuff here. But needless to say, we made the decision that the conversation that we most want to be part of is the conversation around podcasting, and that's really made all the difference. Yeah. And so at that time, were there resources for podcasters available? Because 2009, a lot of the big people who are in podcasting now, like Jordan Harbinger, Lewis, Howes, all these huge names, JLD, they started around that time. too. A lot of these big names, for the most part, started around that time, too. So was there

a lot of resources, or is this something that you kind of figured out on your own? Yeah, it was definitely in the dark ages, right? And if you think about it from a consumer standpoint, you had to go through a number of steps to actually listen to a podcast way back in those days. And I think part of the reason why you're seeing such tremendous growth in the medium is because technology has truly caught up to demand. But back in 2009, as a podcaster, there was a little bit of information out there in terms of what to do and how to release a show and that sort of thing. But as a podcast consumer, if you wanted to listen to a podcast episode, you'd have to find the file somewhere. You'd have to have a pod catcher to download the file,

and then you'd have to transfer that file onto some sort of MP3-like player to be able to listen to it. So by the time you're all said and done, there was like a solid four steps to be able to listen to shows. And so that's why, you know, for a long time, I think that the medium struggled.

And that's obviously changed quite a bit now, but back then, if you weren't fully committed to listening to an episode, you probably weren't going to do it, let alone finding episodes that you wanted to listen to. Yeah, it was much harder for everyone. I remember back then I was doing radio like shows. I was doing like webcasts. They were called like online radio shows, right? And we would record them. Then the video would go up on YouTube and like a website, whatever the radio station website was. And podcastings were available, but nobody was really listening or doing them. I didn't know anybody who had a podcast at that time. So really cool that you started that early. Have you seen any advantages from your perspective of you starting off, like, as an early adopter. Like, has that helped you in any way?

So, so let me, in full transparency, let me say that we released our first set of episodes of Reinvention Radio as podcasts in 2009. I believe we did a couple in 2010, but then I stopped. So had I stayed the course, and that's been a little bit of, I don't want to say a hindrance, but it's a little bit of, I get more tired of things. I get tired of things long before others kind of get on the bus or the bandwagon of those same things. And I get tired of talking about things long before it typically hits the mainstream. Like CompuServe is a perfect example, just seeing everything that's going online and then kind of moving in a different direction, right?

Same thing with podcasting, seeing that really early. But then just kind of bail in from it and decided. you know what, I'm just, I'm not going to do this on a consistent basis. Around 2015 is when I got back into it and then said, you know what, I'm going to create episodes on a more consistent basis and I've been doing that pretty much ever since. Had I stayed the course, I think there would have been some significant advantages for sure. But unfortunately, I saw the writing on the wall in terms of, hey, this has massive potential. And I didn't read my own notes and took a break from it. And by the time I got back into it in 2015, still fairly early in the scheme of things.

But there were folks that had some pretty good traction already, and it's always hard to play catch up. Yeah, totally. I wish that I had started just a couple of years early. I started it in 2018. But even I look back and I'm like, damn, I'm so glad that I at least started in 2018. Absolutely. Some people are starting this year. Yeah, and don't get me wrong.

I'm not suggesting by any such in the imagination that there isn't still a tremendous opportunity there. Just in terms of having that first mover advantage, I shot myself in the foot and didn't give myself the benefit, the full benefit of that first mover advantage, because I didn't remain consistent. Even when you started, and just running the numbers here, when we did our first New Media Summit in 2017, I remember I'd put up a slide that was saying, you know, something, there was something around 400,000 podcasts at that point in 2017. So fast forward to today, and now there's about a million seven, something of that nature.

But, you know, the reality is still only about 25% of the current podcasts that are available have more than 10 episodes and consistently release new content. So it's still very early if you think about it in terms of, well, just compare it to like a YouTube as an example. And there's 23 million active YouTube channels versus about roughly 400,000 active podcasts with more than 10 episodes. Yeah, I think if you're a podcaster, you definitely have to be in there for the long game. Some people just don't realize that the first year, you're not going to get a lot of downloads. You have to build it and really try and be consistent, like you said. So it's not just going to fall in your lap.

So let's talk about podcast magazine. Why did you start podcast magazine? What is the purpose behind it? Yeah, it's another one of those just really interesting entrepreneurial stories of seeing an opportunity in a medium that, as you know, I mean, I'm just, I'm so enamored with. I just really love what podcasting does in terms of leveling the playing field for people of, I mean, anywhere, everywhere, to be able to share their mission and message in a very time efficient and cost-effective manner. And so October of 2019, I remember very clearly when the idea for the magazine, hit me because I was at a conference that was all about influencer marketing. And I remember the host of

the conference had been talking about for some time releasing a magazine that was going to be focused on influencers. And I remember thinking when I first heard about his idea, I remember thinking that's a pretty smart idea. Sit down with influencers, create this magazine, release the magazine, the people that you're going to sit down with have big followings. They're going to want to share. their feature, hopefully they'll share their feature with their tribe and the magazine will get more subscribers and it'll build up his reputation in that space, et cetera. So I was just thinking, well, it's a really smart idea. But he hadn't released it and hadn't released it and hadn't released it. And here I was at his conference, it's Brennan Bershard, by the way. I don't know

if you know Brendan or not, but it was his event called, his event called Influencer. And so I remember he had one sign at the conference. We was talking about. coming soon, influencer magazine. I was like, okay, well, you've been saying this coming soon for a while. Hopefully you'll go ahead and do it. And I went back to my seat, kind of hanging out, whatever. And then bam, it hit me.

And I was like, why isn't there a magazine? Like, let's just say, why isn't there Rolling Stone, in terms of what Rolling Stone does for music? Why isn't there a magazine like that for the industry of podcasts? Why isn't there a wired or a vanity fair or a, you know, a Sports Illustrated type magazine for their respective industries for podcasts. And I kept thinking, and I was just like, you know, I don't want to do something for podcasters because there's already people who are doing things for podcasters.

There's great events for podcasters. There are some great publications for podcasters, et cetera, et cetera. And as I said, you know, when you look at the current numbers, there's only about, let's just call it 400,000 active podcasts right now that have more than 10 episodes and continually produce new content. So maybe there's 400,000 or so podcasters out there. Okay, that's one specific market. Current numbers right now is there's over 100 million people who listen to podcasts on a monthly basis, right? Those are today's numbers back then. It was about 75 million. So I'm sitting here thinking with the total, Tam is what they call, the total available market is about 400,000 versus

$75 million. That's a pretty easy answer right there, but the question is, is there going to be a market for this? Will people actually want to read about the podcasters that they know and go deeper into their lives and deeper into the stories of, you know, just all the things that went through my mind and what the magazine could be? And I figured, you know what? It's worth a gamble to find out because as an entrepreneur, the last thing that you want to do, because entrepreneurs are full of ideas, right? and some ideas are great and some need to fall by the wayside. This is one of those ideas that I sat there and I said, you know what, if I don't do it, I know someone else will.

And if somebody else does, I'm going to kick myself for not trying, right? And so what do you do when you have an idea? What's the first thing that you do when you have an idea? What's your next step when you have an idea? Google it. Exactly, right? So you start looking. Is the domain available?

Is anybody else doing it? and I had found that there was a quote-unquote podcast magazine that somebody had tried a number of years ago, didn't look like it was doing anything. I figured, well, what are you going to call this thing if you do it? And I was like, well, you got to call it podcast magazine. I mean, what else would you call it, right? So started looking for that domain, podcast magazine.com. Somebody had it, was sitting on it, and ended up tracking it down. And I'm doing this all, by the way, I'm doing this all while I'm sitting there at the conference. So I'm literally in that conference doing all of this, trying to do. to map this out, plan it out, and I ended up tracking down to the domain, and it was for sale,

and it was about $2,500. And so it was right at that number where I was like, it's just enough to give me pause. Because if it was 30 bucks or whatever, I'd be like, okay, fine, whatever, you know, just take it, call it a day. But at 2,500, I was like, hmm. You were committed at that point. You become committed at that point. And then obviously you have the domain, but that doesn't do you any good, right?

I mean, you still have to create whatever it is that you're going to create. And so I'm trying to think, but I think it was that same morning that Brennan had presented something about one of his masterminds or inner circle programs. And I've worked with Brennan in the past and known him for years. And I was thinking, you know what, maybe I'll do something with him again. And it was 25 grand for his mastermind. So I texted my operations manager, our president and CEO, Kelly, she runs the whole business. And I texted her and I said, you know what, I'm thinking about doing this. What do you think of the idea?

She's like, you know, seems like an interesting. idea. And I was like, okay, well, I'm thinking about joining Brendan's mastermind. And she's like, how much is it? And I was like, 25 grand. And she said, why don't you put that money into podcast magazine and let's see what we can do with it? I was like, oh, that's an easy answer right there. And so we did it. You know, we bought the domain and started putting the team together. And literally from the moment that I sat in that seat and got that idea to launch to releasing our first issue, it was roughly 100 days. Wow. So cool. You just had this idea. You made it happen. And now it's like a reputable magazine that's in print.

Is it mainly an online product, would you say? I know you also have a print magazine. Would you consider it an online product or more so a print magazine? And did you have any difficulty releasing like a physical product in such a digital world? Yeah, so it's interesting. And of course, a lot of the haters come out and the trolls, you know, magazine about podcasts, right? How hilarious is that? I mean, you know, you can imagine a lot of the comments that we got. But we knew it was going to be digital first. So it was always built with the intent of being a digital magazine. We do, however, print physical copies. And the large majority of our subscribers are digital-only subscribers. We knew that going in the majority of the people,

unless we were able to partner with like a condonaster or someone, would be digital subscribers. Now, we're still going down that path of trying to get this onto shelves. Matter of fact, if you know of somebody at Condonastor, one of the biggest, you know, let us know because we'd love to partner with them. And it looks amazing. It's, you know, it's beautiful, four-color. Every issue is 120, 30, 40 pages. I mean, it's chock full of really amazing writing content all about the industry.

And we do print a small handful of magazines every month for our subscribers. and then also for key people of influence. And this is something to think about for your business, right? And this is the euphemistic year business. Whatever it is that you're doing, if you can get something into someone's hands, it always helps to validate your creations and always helps to validate what your vision is around

where you can see this creation going. right? And so that is one of the reasons why we do print the magazine and we send it out to hundreds of influencers, in addition, of course, to our subscribers, but hundreds of influencers who are in this world because, well, number one, we want to sit down with as many of the podcasters as we possibly can, but number two, of course, we want to monetize this. And so if you're a podcaster or you have a product or a programmer service that's related to the industry, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better platform for getting in front of people who are viable candidates for your products, programs, or services.

Yeah, I love that. I think what you're doing with podcast magazine is so innovative. And by the time this episode comes out, my listeners are going to be well aware that I'm going to be on the cover of the January edition of podcast magazine. So I am so excited. Thank you so much. I'm so honored. I wanted you to have an opportunity to let our listeners know other people who have been on the cover

and how you typically choose your cover story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, you're in great company there for sure. Boy, Katie Couric, Janet Coucher, Kim Commando, Dave Ramsey, Adam Carolla, Jock Wilnick, and Hal Elrod. Yeah, I mean, we've had just some amazing people for sure join us and sit down with us. And one of the things that I'm really proud of is that everyone who is in the magazine, we do actually sit down with them.

And it is one of the reasons why I felt like the magazine itself could be instrumental in helping to fuel our growth moving forward, right? Because, again, a couple of years ago, we made the decision that the conversation, and this is something I encourage everybody to write down, which is this fundamental question, which is what conversation do I most want to be part of, right? And it's just a fundamental question that you have to be able to answer because if you think about it from the standpoint of walking into a room that have lots of different tables, right?

And let's say there's 10 different tables with 10 different discussions going on and one table is talking about health and fitness, one table is talking about finance, one table is talking about podcasting, one table is talking about marketing, I mean, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You walk into that room, you can only sit at one. table. So which table are you going to sit at, right? Number one. So we made the decision of the table that we most want to sit at is podcasting, right? That's the conversation we most want to be a part of. But what we became very clear on is that the bigger goal, the bigger objective is for you and your company to be a part of that conversation even when you're not

in the room. So how does Steve Olsher, so to speak, get into a conversation? around podcasting even if I'm not in that room. And it became very clear that it wasn't going to happen based on the merits of our shows alone. I mean, you know, our shows do okay, but we're not competing with Rogan, right? We're not competing with NPR. We're not competing with any. Corolla. Not happening.

So if we are committed to being a part of that conversation and having our name including in that conversation, the question then becomes, how do you become the hub of the wheel? Right. If you think about a bicycle and all the spokes that connect to the center, the hub of the wheel, that's where your blue ocean of opportunity is, right? In terms of giving yourself the chance to really do something that attracts people from all different areas of your vertical and they want to be a part of what it is that you're doing. So again, I knew that wasn't going to happen based on the merits of our podcast. And for a long time, I tried to get people like Adam Carolla or Dave. Ramsey, et cetera, to come on to Reinvention Radio and join me as a guest. They wouldn't even open the emails, right? No word. The publicists, nothing, they have no interest. But as soon as we launched podcast magazine, it's really interesting how it just really

began to open up all of those doors. And we began to put ourselves in all of those conversations about podcasting, even when we weren't present in the room for those conversations. So that's been the most interesting part about all of this is when people say, you know, there's no more opportunities here to do this or that boat has sailed or whatever it is. Sometimes you just got to take a step back and really look at the industry that you most want to be a part of and try to create your own opportunity. And yeah, I mean, it's just been incredible to see the people that have stood up to say, we'll sit down with you for a feature. And a lot of people who, frankly, should be on the cover,

don't even make the cover. And they end up on the interior of the magazine, which is great. We love sitting down with them and featuring them. But people, it's a very coveted spot in the industry right now, for sure. Yeah. Well, I'm so hype. Honestly, I'm so excited to promote my cover feature. And, you know, you're so amazing. And I'm so thankful for you helping me out and giving me that exposure. And you're so smart. You're so smart what you said. about like entering the industry from a different vantage point. You saw an opportunity. There was no other podcast magazine.

Now you are the podcast magazine guy and your brand is affiliated with that. I'm sure your podcast has grown as a result of that and just having all that exposure. So kudos to you. I feel like I did something similar with my podcast marketing agency because, you know, I'm able to make all this money, you know, having other clients and doing their podcast marketing. And then I can invest it back into my podcast. And I've seen a ton of growth since I started doing it.

that. So I can definitely relate. Yeah, it's a super, super smart strategy. So I know that you wrote a best selling book. It's called What Is Your What? Discovering the one amazing thing you were born to do. So I wanted to kick this part of the interview off asking you, what is your what? You've done a million different things. What's the red thread that goes through all of them? So it's interesting, right? In author land, they say that you write the book that you most need. And so for me, trying to figure, out why am I here? What is it that I'm naturally wired to excel at? What really does put fire in my soul? And what am I going to be doing from a, how do I make a living standpoint, right? Like, where do all of those things intersect in terms of what I really love doing and find enjoyment doing and what I'm

good at and what can I really make money doing? Right. So where is that intersection for me in terms of just leveraging how I'm naturally wired to excel. And so for years, I struggled with that question. I think to this day, I still sort of struggled with that question. I mean, but the reality is after having taken the Myers-Briggs and the what colors your parachutes and the strengths finders and all of those things, you know, all of those modalities are great, but for me, they really just left me with more questions and answers.

And so around 2009 or so, around the same time that we launched Reinvention Radio and I began branding myself as America's Reinvention Expert because I had been reinventing my life in so many ways over so many years. A lot of people were coming to me and saying, hey, can you teach me about this or can you teach me about that or this sort of thing? And so I started doing some of those types of workshops

in terms of trying to help entrepreneurs and taking the experiences that I had and just helping other entrepreneurs avoid a lot of the trial and tribulation and brain damage that they have to endure by trying to figure all this stuff out on their own. And so I started teaching. And the more that I started teaching,

the more that the same questions began circulating around, okay, this is all well and good, but what do I actually do? Right? Like, I just don't understand what I should be doing given the skill sets that I have, given the experiences that I have, etc. And so as I began working with more and more people in that way,

it became clear that we need to have a framework that's very simple for people to be able to use in order to hit the ground running and to really start figuring out how they can make money doing what it is that they're good at and what they really love to do. And this is how the what is your what framework came about, which is it became very clear to me

that there's really only three pieces of the puzzle that you have to solve for. And if you can solve for these three pieces, it really will give you a, I'm not going to say everything, will fall into place, but it'll give you a nice jump start, if you will, towards getting to where it is that you want to go in your life and your career. And so the three elements of the what is your what framework are include, number one, your core gift. And your gift reflects what's in your DNA, right? It reflects how you're naturally wired to excel.

And so every one of us has a core gift. It could be teaching, it could be enrolling, it could be protecting, it could be communicating, it could be entertaining, et cetera, et cetera. The next question is once you understand what that core gift is, you then need to understand what's the primary vehicle that you will use to share that gift. So as an example, if your primary, if your gift is, if your core gift is healing, let's say you're a natural born healer, then maybe the vehicle that you use to share that gift is maybe like Reiki or massage or, or acupuncture or something of that nature. So you have your gift in your vehicle, and then the third piece of the puzzle

is really having a clear understanding of who the people are that you are most compelled to serve. So it's the combination of the gift, the vehicle, and the people that make up the what is your what framework. And your gift is very static, right? It's in your DNA. It's a part of who you are.

I mean, you can spend a lifetime of denial about what it is, but it really doesn't change over the course of your life. But the vehicle that you use to share that gift and the people who you are most compelled to serve, those two pieces of the puzzle are more fluid. Those are more organic. Those can change over time as either new things come in and out of your life or new things come in and out of you, right? But just by being able to answer that question, right, of what is my what? What is my core gift, the primary vehicle I use to share that gift, and who are the people that I'm most compelled to serve?

Now you can see how all of these things begin to work together to help you form a career and create products, programs, services, or an entrepreneurial endeavor that really puts fire in your soul. So help me understand. You say that everybody has like a core gift. It makes it sound like it's singular. Are you saying that there's really just one core thing that you're naturally good at? Or can you be good at multiple things? You really believe there's just one thing? Yeah. So you can, and just so that. we can perhaps provide a bit more clarification, you can be good at lots of things, for sure. I'm not suggesting to you that you're only going to be good at one thing over the course of your life. What I am saying to you, though, is that you have a core gift, a gift, and some people have more than one gift. You might be a really great communicator, so communicating might be your core gift, and you might be really entertaining, right? But one of the other people, you might be a

of those is going to have a slight edge over the other, right? Maybe it's 51-49 in some cases. But the reality is you can certainly do lots of things. And when you have talent, that's where the confusion comes in. It's actually, I think, it's more difficult and complicated from a life perspective when you're good at lots of things. Because that way you're like, oh, I could do this and I'd be good at it. And I can do this and I'd be good at it. And if you think about that sentence, the main word in that sentence is the word I. And that's why when you look at the what is your what framework, when you take yourself out of the equation and you look at the people that you are most compelled to serve, then it becomes about them and not about you. Now, you can choose who

those people are, but ultimately you're going to be serving that specific subset of the population, which of course can expand over time. But for those who get so caught up and, well, I'm good at this, and I'm good at that, I'm good at that. Okay, great. So then who do you want to serve using the gifts that you have and how the vehicle do you want to serve them? And you can, and you're much better off starting with one and expanding outwards than trying to do it the other way around. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. How about if we don't know what our true inherent gifts are, you know, what if we don't know what our core talent is? How do we go about figuring that out? Is there any hacks that you can share with us? Without selling the book too much, I mean, because there is a specific exercise called

The Seven Seeds of Your Soul, which will help people to figure out what that core gift is for them. I would say that one of the easiest things to do, if you don't want to invest the time to go through this process and really leverage the what is your what framework, then one of the easiest things to do is just to start, well, kind of tough in this particular moment, but you can certainly do a lot of this online and in other areas as well. But you want to go out and you just want to start putting your toe in the water in a lot of different worlds. Start volunteering, be an apprentice, join different groups and communities, listen to different conversations, read different things, watch different shows, watch documentaries, read books, etc.

But yeah, I mean, it's definitely much easier when you understand all of the different dishes on the buffet that are available to you so that you can then begin selecting which one ostensibly would, I guess, for lack of a better term, become your favorite. Hey, young improfitors. As an entrepreneur, I know firsthand that getting a huge expense off your books is the best possible feeling. It gives you peace of mind and it lets you focus on the big picture and invest in other things that move your business forward.

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doing something that's like your chosen path versus doing something that goes against, you know, what you're naturally good at and what you're, you say that your gift is in your DNA. So what feelings should we be feeling if we're doing the right things. Yeah. And what I believe to be true is that you're what has chosen you. And it's not that what you have chosen, right? And so how do you know a few different ways? Number one, you'll jump out of bed because there's just, you've got work to do in this world, right? Things that used to bother you will carry a lot less weight because you'll be so focused on serving those that you are most compelled to serve. And one of my favorite ways to know that you're in the right space of doing really what puts fire in your soul

is twofold. Number one, whatever that activity is comes as naturally to you as breathing. And then the other side of that is that you can either look at it as time flies. by our time stands still, whichever works best for you. But the bottom line is you lose all sense of time. Like, let's say you just love building model trains, as an example. And you've got your full workday, have dinner, you spend time with the family, and then, you know, eight until 10 o'clock is your time on your model trains. And you go down at 8 o'clock, you start building them. And then by the time you know it, it's 10 o'clock and you really wish you had more hours to continue to play with, you know, and build your model trains, right? So if you look for those areas of your life

where it's just like, wow, where did the time go? That's going to provide some clues and so far as activities that really do fuel you. And when it comes to turning this, you know, hobby or passion that you have into a business, it's all about creating a niche, nichotizing it, as you say. That's really important. Nisitized. Yeah. So tell us about that. How can we, like, what is your definition of of nichitizing, as you say, how do we do it, and why do you recommend doing it? Yeah, so if you think about it, even if you take an industry like podcasting as an example,

you know, this is still a very niche piece of the available communication tools that are available. Yes, there's a lot more people, and I know it seems like everybody in their mother has a podcast right now, right? I get that, especially if you're in the coaching and authoring and speakering, you know, type world, right? Online marketing, et cetera.

You see so much of that. But the fact of the matter is that as a percentage of the population, it's still very, very, very small in terms of people who have podcasts and even in terms of people who listen to podcasts, it's still not everyone who walks this planet, right? So the point being that as you think about where your biggest opportunity lies,

typically when you're first starting out, the more defined you are in that process, the more of a narrow of an approach that you take, the easier it will be for you to gain traction and become that key person of influence, that KPI, right, that key person of influence in that respective market. Let me give you an example. If you think about Deepak Chopra, who a lot of people know, and he's a spiritual guru and does this and does that. Well, when he first started out as a quote-unquote spiritual guru,

and he was talking about meditation and just sitting there in silence with your hands at your lap and closing your eyes. And, I mean, back in the 70s, when he first really started coming on to the scene, that was a pretty small subset of the population who was amenable to this whole notion. of even just spirituality, even at that point, that was a very niche market, right? Meditation, spirituality, that whole thing. It was a lot of foreign concepts for a lot of people who just kind of shook their head. I mean, me included for a long time, I just kind of, you know, raise my nose at it and like,

yeah, what are these idiots doing? You know, just being silly about it, but that was just because I was afraid of the unknown, right? I just didn't understand it. So when you think about a guy like Deepak, today he can sell anything. he wants. He could sell a cookbook. He could sell, you know, he could sell anything he wants, right? But back in the day, he was actually very focused on a specific niche market, people who were open to the idea of increasing their spiritual awareness and so on. It's a very niche market when he started. Now it doesn't feel that way, but you got to go back 40-plus

years to see how that was him basically niche-atizing and saying, there is a very niche market. It's a lot of is an opportunity here for me to focus on those that I am most compelled to serve, right? I mean, in this particular moment, and to be able to monetize my expertise against these people who now have an interest in what it is that I'm exposing them to. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think that's such a great story and such great advice. Before we got on, before we started recording, we were chatting offline. We were talking about Clubhouse. It's a new social media platform that you've been using. And it's a great way. I haven't used it yet, but a lot of my friends say that podcasters are on there and people are

really starting to blow up on that platform. What can you say about, like, new vehicles in terms of reaching our audiences? What do you have to say about that? Yeah. So, I mean, it is really interesting. And, of course, you know, there's always going to be the app to juror, something new that's going to come along and it'll be hot for a little while and then it'll disappear. And I mean, you can look at play, like Blab, right, and Periscope and some of those. And the reality is, it's, it's tough to create something that becomes mainstream, right, and has the ability to really move the needle for you as an individual, you as a business owner, et cetera.

Clubhouse is just a very interesting opportunity, I believe, in this particular moment for people to still get in on pretty much the ground floor. I mean, I've been, you know, I've been preaching about podcasting for a long time. And those who took me up on it back when I really started teaching about it in 2017, have seen some great results since then. But Clubhouse is just very, very interesting because it's audio only. And it is a platform that at this point is still in beta and it's invitation only.

So there's only about a million people. My understanding is they just crossed a million members as of this recording. So there's only about a million people on the platform. but the engagement is off of the charts. I've never seen anything like it. And the reason why I think that is is because, first and foremost, and for those who don't know it, let me just give you a quick over. So it basically is like, I liken it to a huge conference and think about it in terms of a huge global conference, right, where people from all over the world are there. And within this conference, there are a ton of breakout rooms. And all of these breakout rooms have a particular

discussion going on. And there's a moderator, someone who is leading that discussion, and they can bring other people on stage as panelists to share their thoughts. And then, of course, there's the audience who has the opportunity to raise their hand and come up on stage, quote unquote, as well. And very interesting from the standpoint of no likes, no comments, so there's no trolling. There's nothing but respect from what I've seen so far in terms of the people who are sharing their thoughts and then the people who are offering their thoughts on someone else's thoughts, et cetera, et cetera. But the thing that I think really is the difference maker for this particular channel is that if you think about how things work insofar as a pendulum is concerned,

you know, a pendulum that kind of swings all the way this way and then swings all the way this way and so on and so forth, for a number of years now, especially as it relates to influencer marketing, the pendulum has really swung towards highly polished, highly-p polished, highly produced content. And it's created this huge cavern for those who don't have the team to create that highly polished, highly produced content versus those who can't, right? And so this cavern, this divide, has grown to the point where now it's just flat out insurmountable. And the people who had the benefit of all of that production value and so on and so forth have created a pretty good divide between the have-nots and those who could not do what it is that those

influencers were doing, right? And so you saw that in terms of Facebook and in terms of Instagram and whatnot and so far as building up their followings. But that pendulum is now swinging back. And I believe that is swinging back towards raw and real and authentic and unpolished, right? Like even this episode that we're recording right now, this will be edited and things will be added on the intro, on the outro, and so on and so forth, and it'll look great and sound great. And there will continue to be a place for this. But what is so interesting in my mind about Clubhouse is they're really removing that whole barrier to entry in terms of you just show up and you just talk. And whatever happens happens and nothing is recorded.

So it's a combination of the pendulum swinging back towards unpolished and unproduced and raw and real, as well as capitalizing on this whole movement of, you know, FOMO, right? The whole fear of missing out. Because nothing is recorded, you have to be on at that particular moment in time in order to benefit from the content and the discussions that are being shared. And so highly engaged. I mean, it is not unusual for people who would be spending three, four, five, six hours a day. on this platform right now. And what I will say is that I do believe

that if you put in the work over the next six months on that platform, you'll be able to build a significant following of people that will pay dividends for you for years to come. All of the signs for me having been an online entrepreneur for as long as I've been online and being in this space, it's not gonna kill podcasting. Don't think about it, it's not killing podcasting at all.

It'll be in complement to podcasting. but podcasting is evergreen, right? Podcasting is evergreen. It lives on. It will be available for people to pull when they want it. So don't get a twist. There's not going to kill podcasting. But I just think it's opening up a whole other channel here,

which again, of going back to the discussion around radio, really feels to me again like it's giving the average person the ability to create a real-time radio station, if you will. And that's pretty interesting. So I'm real bullish on it. That's really cool. Thank you so much for that breakdown. A lot of my friends have been talking about Clubhouse.

I've been invited. Now I have to definitely put it on my 2021 goals to start getting active on Clubhouse. Although for a creator, it does get quite overwhelming thinking about all the different platforms. But I think being strategic, not spreading yourself too thin and really focusing on the platforms that could give you the most opportunity right now, like Clubhouse, LinkedIn, and all those kind of platforms that still have a lot of organic growth. Very cool.

So I loved this conversation. Thank you so much, Steve. The last question I ask all my guests is, what is your secret to profiting in life? Yeah, and I love that question. So I would say, first and foremost, just you got to be really clear on what you want versus what it is that you need. and what I know to be true is that far too many people will go through life focused on what it is that they believe that they want.

And that focus on what it is that they believe that they want, as opposed to having true clarity on what it is that they actually need, will continue to impact them in a way where they're never truly present. And they're always looking at what is potentially available to them for them and outside of their existing arena of life, if you will. And so it becomes challenging, right? When you're so focused on what it is that you think that you want, that you forget to really just pause, take the time to look at what you have

and be grateful for what it is that you have, but also to find true fulfillment in what it is that you have. And so the easiest example I can use and share with you here is the biggest difference between having what you want and what it is that you need is like somebody who lives in, let's say, a two-bedroom apartment.

and they're paying $4,000 a month or whatever it is, if you're in Manhattan or wherever it's a lot more than that, right? But whatever it is for that. But what you actually need and could very well be happy in is a studio apartment, right? And it's the car that you're paying for that you don't need. It's all these things that you think that you want. And ultimately, at the end of the day, all of that ends,

let's just say it adds up to $7,000 a month in terms of what your nut is, your expenses, et cetera, etc, when in fact what you need could reflect not perhaps of maybe just two grand a month, taking public transportation instead of owning a car and all of these things. And that $5,000 difference is ultimately what keeps people living in that perpetual state of having to hustle, having to scramble, having to do more than they actually need to do. And so that fundamental question of just having clarity around what it is that you want versus what it is that you actually need can help dramatically in pretty much all of those areas. Yeah, I'm sure that if we do more of, you know, if we have a better understanding of that, we'll be a lot happier because we won't be, you know, spinning our wheels and spending our whole life just working and working and working.

So I definitely agree there. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do? Yeah, well, wow, I mean, we've been talking a lot about podcast magazine and all the fun stuff that's going on there. We've been talking about what is your what. Should we share a couple of those links? Yeah, of course. I'll put them in my show notes. Yeah. All right. So let's give away a free lifetime subscription then to podcast magazine. So we'd love to have you join us there for that ride. Podcastmagize.com forward slash free is the backdoor link to grab a free lifetime subscription. And then if you want to grab a free copy of the entire New York Times bestseller,

What Is Your What? Real easy, just go to what is your what.com and we give away the entire book for free. Awesome. Thank you so much for your generosity, Steve. It was such a pleasure speaking with you. You too. Thanks. Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting Podcast.

I hope you enjoyed this episode with Steve Ulcher. My favorite part of the show was hearing about how different the Internet was back then, and it really opened my eyes to see how. how fast things can evolve. You've got to keep a pulse on new trends if you want to get the first advantage. And Steve did that with everything from the internet to podcasting. And that's why Clubhouse, the new iPhone app, is so exciting. It's unbelievably engaging and I've really been having a ton of fun on there.

And I'm planning on putting a lot of my energy in the coming months on that platform. If you're on Clubhouse, follow me at Halitaha. And if you're on Clubhouse, that means you've got an iPhone. Why not leave Young and Profiting a five-star review for entertaining you today? It's a free and effective way to support the show. And if you want to hear more content around entrepreneurship and get super motivated, go check out episode number 60, surviving entrepreneurship with Evan Carmichael next. Evan is a serial entrepreneur, speaker, author, an extremely popular YouTuber who sold his

first biotech company at the young age of 19. He has a mission to help one billion entrepreneurs in his life and aims to solve what he believes to be the world's biggest problem, untapped human potential. Here's a clip from number 60. I recommend you go check out that episode next. If every day you're watching a video or listen to a podcast or reading a book from somebody who's done a lot more than you,

you may not notice a shift in yourself day to day, but if you did that every day and you look back three months, six months, a year later, like, man, I've grown so much. You can't help. Like if you're, this is episode 60 of Hala show. If you go back and you watch every episode, like if you take the next 60 days and start from zero and just go, you'll be a different person in 60 days. Yeah, totally.

Because you got Hala in your ear, giving you confidence, boosting you up, making you feel amazing, right? And we need that because, you know, Hala might be a cheerleader for you in your life, but you probably don't have a lot of cheerleaders in your life right now. And so even though Hala may not know you, You can still learn from her. You can still get her wisdom and you can still apply it to make a meaningful change in your life. As usual, I'm going to be shouting out Apple Podcast reviews at the end of the show

because it is the number one way to thank me as a host and to thank our hardworking young and profiting team. The first review is from Seabas, informative, entertaining, and full of value in all caps. I love everything about this show. Hala really knows how to structure things so that every episode provides massive value. it's no wonder why this show is a success. Keep rocking Hala. The next one is from Raw, Vegan Rita. I can't go on living without this podcast.

If I had to choose one podcast to listen to you for the rest of my life, it would be this one. You can tell Hala spends a lot of time researching her amazing guests like Seth Godin and takes such care in crafting questions keeping the listener in mind. Thank you for bringing such wisdom to the podcasting. world. Thank you both so much for your awesome reviews. I love reading them and shouting out our loyal listeners. And if you're out there listening and you found value in today's show, please also take a few minutes to write us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And I also love seeing posts on Yap on LinkedIn or Instagram. If you're listening

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My username is Hala Taha. Big thanks to the app team as always. You guys rock. This is Hala, signing off.