Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Tim Salau: The American Dream | Career | E90

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

How will you thrive in the future of work?   This week, we’re talking with Tim Salau, aka Mr. Future of Work, who is CEO and Co-founder of the Guide app, a B2B Learning & Talent Development app helping remote teams and knowledge workers learn anytime, anywhere, on-demand.   Tim is an author, investor, accomplished international keynote speaker, product leader and tech influencer. Before founding Guide, he led product and innovation with 4 global Fortune 500 companies: Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and WeWork, coaching CEOs, executives, and government leaders on how they can transform their workforce to thrive in the Future of Work.   Tune in to learn how Tim’s childhood experience as an immigrant from Nigeria helped shape him into the man he is today, and how he stayed on a straight path while growing up in the worst part of Houston. We’ll also cover how to advocate for yourself in your career, the difference between good and bad company culture, and Tim’s signature P.I.E. principle to build your brand community.    Social Media:    Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com   Timestamps:   01:56 - Tim’s Childhood & Immigration Story 05:25 - Why Community is so Important 09:15 - How Tim Rose Above Adversity in Houston 13:52 - The Reason Tim Turned to Basketball as a Child 17:59 - Why Being Competitive Isn’t Necessary 22:56 - Purpose Behind Tim’s Dual Degrees 26:10 - How Tim Landed a Google Internship 33:17 - Tim’s Story with Microsoft and How to Advocate for Yourself 36:53 - How Companies Can Improve D&I Strategies 41:34 - Good Culture vs. Bad Culture 44:47 - What is a Legacy Project?  49:15 - The PIE Principle 54:20 - Tim’s Secret to Profiting in Life   Mentioned in the Episode:   Tim’s Website: https://www.timsalau.com/ Tim’s App, Guide: guideapp.co Big Black Tea: https://bigblacktea.com/ Tim’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsalau/ Tim’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timsalau/

Hey everyone, this is Hala from Young and Profiting Podcast here. Before we get started, I just want to share that I have some amazing news. Today, I checked my chartable ranking for the first time in a while, and I realized that Young and Profiting is number 50 in the education category in the U.S. and number 74 globally on Apple Podcasts. So this is a huge deal to me. We've been a top 10 podcast in the how-to subcategory for some time now, but this is the first time that I broke the top 100 and a main category. And so now I can officially say I'm a top 100 podcast on Apple, which is huge. So I'm super happy. I'm overjoyed and I want to take a moment to give a shout out to my young and profiting team. I've got a team of 27 members. They're all super talented, super motivated, super passionate. And without them, this accomplishment wouldn't be possible. So I hope my team gives themselves a pat on the back for this amazing milestone that we've achieved. and I'm so thankful to have so many loyal, motivated team members working with me on Young and Profiting Podcasts. I feel like the sky is the limit. I'm so happy and so thankful.

So obviously I'm in the mood to celebrate. And so for everyone listening out there and everyone who supports a Young and Profiting podcast to help us celebrate, please write us a review on Apple Podcasts. If you don't have access to Apple, write it on your favorite platform. And if you do, I'll find it and I'll shout you out on the next episode. Thank you so much, and I hope to see your Apple Podcast review. You're listening to Yap, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show.

I'm your host, Halitaha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession, or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of ex-FBI agents, real estate moguls,

self-made billionaires, CEOs, and best-selling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, how to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, And more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young and Profiting Podcast. This week on Yap, we're talking with Tim Saloo, aka Mr. Future of Work. Tim is the CEO of Guide, a B2B Learning and Talent Development app helping remote teams and knowledge workers learn anytime, anywhere, on demand. Tim is an author, investor, accomplished international keynote speaker, product leader, and

tech influencer. Before he founded Guide, he led product and innovation at four global Fortune 500 companies, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and WeWork. He coached CEOs, executives, and government leaders on how they can transform their workforce to thrive in the future of work. Tune in to this episode to learn how Tim's childhood experience as an immigrant from Nigeria helped shape him into the man he is today and how he stayed on a straight path while growing up in the worst part of Houston. We'll also cover how to advocate for yourself in your career, the difference between good and bad company culture, and Tim's signature pie principle to build your brand community. Hey, Tim, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast. Hey, hello.

Thank you so much. Of course. So, Tim, I know that your parents are over proud of you in so many different ways. You are the American dream and the perfect example of why immigrants fight so hard to get here. You moved to the USA from Nigeria in 1996 with your parents. And since then you've achieved, you know, you've went on to get a college degree. You've got a master's of science. You interned at Google.

Your first job at a school was Microsoft. You were the first chief evangelist at WeWork. And you're a keynote speaker. You've launched your own startup called Guide. And this is all a very impressive journey. And I, you know, I did the math. And I think you're around 30 years old. So that's pretty young, you know.

Major kudos to you. You know, I'm at younger than that. I'm 27. You're younger than 30. Oh, wow. Wow. I apparently have very poor math skills, but that's young. You have done so much and you have such a big following and such a great name behind you.

I can't even believe it. You're 27. That's amazing. So your parents immigrated from Nigeria. They sacrificed their careers. They had to learn brand new careers to give your family a better opportunity. I can totally relate. My parents came from Palestine. I was born here, but, you know, they immigrated and had to adapt. And so when you got here, you were six years old. You were in a completely new land. Your peers looked at you as the other. I think you didn't have, you know, such an easy time transitioning and fitting in.

So tell us about what it was like immigrating to the U.S. and trying to fit in when you were growing up and how that experience really shaped your character. Yeah, you know, I'm sure you can relate to this. this. I think when you immigrate into a new country, it's tough because you are the other and people are often looking at you very different and you have to accustom and get oriented to how things are done in the United States. And the biggest thing you touched on this in my background story is my parents came here to sacrifice. They literally came here. You know, they were wealthy and well-off in Nigeria, but they literally reset their entire lives and careers to just give me access to a better education. And that's something that's always going to be a part of my life and my identity,

but also our family's story. So for me, you know, I've always been, I always grew up in a culture with my family where it was focused that I stay disciplined. I stay focused on the long term. I stay focused on how do I continue doing good for the welfare of others because we're a very communal culture in Nigeria and within my family. And for me, it's helped me realize that as far as being a leader, you know, the biggest thing you can do is make sense. sacrifices, right? And sometimes that's taking risk in building an adventure. And other times, it's finding ways to better everyone else and not just you. So my mom and my dad have been really inspirational and kind of showing me the guidebook, right, or the path to how do you, you know,

how should one to approach character, how should want to approach leadership. And I think it's, it's their very same principles and their sacrifices that has led me to doing the work that I now do. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, I completely relate. Like, I know what it's like to grow up around parents who, you know, my dad actually came from Palestine and he wasn't wealthy in Palestine. He was the son of a farmer. And all he had was the light on his walk to school to study. But he ended up getting a scholarship. He ended up going to med school. He ended up becoming a surgeon. And he really is like the epitome of the American dream. And he was so proud to, like he actually recently passed away. And he was so proud to. He was so proud to. to be American. Like he loved being American and he was so thankful that, you know, we were in this country and accepted and we all had these opportunities. And one of the reasons why I give back now and why for the past two years, you know, only now I've been monetizing this podcast. I was investing in it and basically using it as a tool to give back and pay things forward because I feel like,

you know, compared to other people, I probably grew up a lot more privileged just because, you know, I didn't grow up super poor or anything like that. So I can totally. relate in terms of seeing parents adapt and thrive in America and how that can really instill really great work ethic and inspiration into their children. So totally relate there. So you are an expert at building brand communities. I think the first time I ever heard of you was on LinkedIn. You're like all over LinkedIn. You've got over 250,000 followers. I think that's how I first found out about you. And I know that your African heritage really influenced you in terms of of your values when it comes to community and why community is so important to you. So can you talk to us

about that and about your dad and how his involvement with the church really influenced you in terms of your values with community? Yeah, yeah. No, thanks. Wow, you really did your research. And I really appreciate that. A lot of people don't know my dad's a pastor. So I really appreciate recognizing that. So for me, growing up in a home where, you know, my dad, so I'm actually not, so I don't follow one religion. I'm actually honest. I follow a lot of different. religions and I kind of pick and choose where I find truth and recognize everyone for whatever their belief system is. But I grew up in a home that was super Christian, God-centric and oriented. But one of the things I think I take away from seeing my dad build a church and seeing how a lot of

the moral compass that comes with leadership and kind of leading people, it really starts with realizing what our interests, where our interests connect and what we all share in terms of of our value systems and our relief systems. And often I think there's a parallel between that and how you grow successful brand communities. And that may not just be around a certain deity or religion, but fundamentally around the things that people love to do. It could be running, it could be podcasting, it could be speaking.

You know, even for our company, it's around education because we're building a bite-sized video trade platform for remote teams. And I think that building a group is just building a group. Anyone can build a group, a whole bunch of people in the same space, online or offline. But building a community is aligned people to have space, create space for each other, and feel as there's a level of synergy in alignment where they want to go as a nation or a community of people. And I think a perfect example here, and not to get political, is kind of just the United States of America and how in the last four years things have been really. really tough. We've grown more divided as a country. And that's because, you know, the type of

leadership that has been in the helm has created that level of kind of division and hatred. But even now with the fact that we have new leaders, you know, we see a little bit more of people feeling more united. And that's because we have leadership now that is focusing on driving a sense of community, shared vision, unison. And whether or not what party you're affiliated with, I think we need more of that type of outlook. and vantage point as a nation because that's what creates community. That's what allows us to create space for each other

and actually listen, no matter what side you want and what your belief system are, right? And I'm really big on, for me, as we even build our company and we build our membership community and showing that everyone feels as if they are, like our members feel connected, our partners feel connected,

and more importantly, our people, the talent in our company, feel as if we're moving towards our vision together. I think that's really interesting. And you've built so many communities that I want to dig into later. And you've got this amazing principle called the Pi Principle. I think it stands for purpose, influence, and experiences. So I definitely want to dive into that later on in the interview,

really dig deep and try to understand that. Give some real-life examples to my listeners. But first, let's stick on your upbringing. Let's stick on your younger years. So you actually grew up in the poor section of Houston. You had a really loving home. Yeah, in the hood. You had a really loving home, but you saw really bad stuff growing up.

You saw drug addiction. You saw gang activity. So how did you actually stay on the straight path? Because from my understanding, you were a good student. You played basketball. Like, you kept on a straight path. So how did you do that even though your environment was so negative? Yeah.

It's so powerful, too, because I would love to get your thoughts, you know, being an immigrant. and having to, I don't know if you landed in NY or the East Coast when you first moved out here, but we'd love to get your kind of background and take. But for me, I think I had a moral compass growing up, because I had my father, I have my dad. And my parents, you know, I grew up gratefully in a home where I had two parents, a mother and a father, and we actually had a family. The family dynamics were good, even though we were living in bad circumstances because we just immigrated. But my parents worked their butt off their gold wealth and then take us from the hood to, to the suburbs, to living nice, and allowing me to be able to afford an education and create my

own pathway, right? So I was always, I was in a home and I was in a family that worked hard. We took care of each other. We had a community of people, whether it be a Nigerian community or friends and my parents made it at work. And at the end of the day, I did have equal access to create my own opportunities in school and make good grades, right, and hang out with the right people. And I think for me, I grew up in a home where it mowed me to have a good moral compass. And I always realized that I wasn't interested in like the traditional things people were. Like, I remember in high school, there were people who, you know, like, I was always different. Like, I never, there was, I never fit it. Like, I would play basketball. Still didn't fit it.

Because, you know, I was still this skinny kid. But I love that was really, that was really smart. You know, I was cool with everybody, but I read a lot too, right? Like, You can play ball, but he's just not a jock. Oh, and he's really good at AP English. Oh, and he's really good at AP history. Man, this guy is really smart. Oh, and he talks really, really well. Like, right?

Like, I always didn't have a certain type of group that I was stuck to, and I wasn't one-dimensional. Like, I was really, I was much more of a, you know, I was already kind of building that. I'm really creative. So I was always kind of always interested in people and always learning. So I think that curiosity and that moral compass always let me to believe that, you know what, I need to carve my own path, right? Like, you know, everyone can do whatever they're doing. People in high school could be smoking, doing drugs,

doing all the kind of stuff that gets them in trouble. But I'm not really interested in that. Like, a lot of what interests me as a person is actually, this isn't even me now, even when I was a kid. Like, I'm really curious about people, and I'm curious about how people make things happen. Like, I'm curious about what makes people tick. And it's actually why I went to school for psychology.

And I do the work I do now even to a degree in building my company and building something for people. And for me, that's been a common threat in my life. I'm more interested in people and the things that we make and design as a society versus just like doing the things that everyone else is doing. Because I think everyone is unique in that sense. So I would say just, you know, growing up in a good family and, you know, having a strong moral compass. And then being more curious about where can we take the world?

Like, what are people doing? What can I contribute to versus just, you know, what everyone else is doing? You know, but what are your thoughts being an immigrant yourself? Well, I'm technically not an immigrant. I was born here. I'm the baby in my family. So by the time my parents came here, my parents actually came here pretty young. They were like 24, 25. My dad finished medical school here. So they came here pretty young. And I feel like I had the advantage of they were already in the nice town when I was born. Like my brothers, I think, had a little different, had it a little different. But, you know, for me, I kind of grew up where I was in a good town already, in a good environment, had a really. really good parents. And so I was really lucky in that regard. But for you, like, when you were first trying to fit in, you know, I was listening to some other interviews. My good friend is Mark Metri. I know you went on his podcast a couple years ago. And you were talking about how you played basketball because you wanted to fit in. And you were also talking about how you kind of regretted doing that

because you kind of wish that you spent your time really pushing the fact that you were Nigerian, that you were unique, different, maybe motivating other African Americans in your school to, you know, learn more about their history and culture. And so looking back, do you regret anything about trying too hard to fit in? Or do you feel like you did stick to your values and was like your own unique person? Yeah, I think at that time, Hala, that's such a powerful question that you're touching on that. And for me, you're a product of your environment. And it's true.

You're often a product in your environment in a sense of, I play basketball to fit in because all I saw was black people play basketball in the hood. And that's what allowed you to be recognized. And I thought that that could even be my out in terms of creating my success long term. But the reality is that, like, I was great at basketball. I'm actually really pretty good. And people don't really know that about me. But for me, I'm actually more of an intellectual.

I'm a designer. I'm great at technology. great at learning. Like, I'm great with people. And I don't regret it, but I could have been more focused on creating, exploring technology, you know, meeting people, mentors who could rule me around that. And I, and the only, the thing that I look back on at that time is that I only thought basketball was the only option. You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't think, I didn't think that, oh, you can pursue being in STEM, or you can pursue building your digital literacy, or you can pursue writing a book, a poetry.

I didn't realize that, oh, there are all these other outlets for me that are much more, if anything, productive, and I can be recognized and seen as a laureate, an artist, a scientist, right? Like, I didn't know that. And, you know, so I played basketball because I thought

that that's just one part of a role where me as a person can be recognized, can feel a sense of success and achievement. And I think what I often tell young kids and just students is like, create the life that you want, right? So I wish, you know, back back there when I was young, but we're all young, right?

We learn as we go. I wish I realized that, you know what, like, there's a lot of different roles in this world and there's a lot of different things that you can do to stay multi-dimensional and just create your own lane. Like, you don't have to, like, fit into these norms, given your circumstances that you're just an athlete or, you know, you're just a podcaster, or, you know, you're just a speaker. Because for me right now, like, I have multiple revenue streams. Like, I do multiple things.

Like, I'm not just one thing, right? We are very multidimensional as human beings. And I think we often have to start seeing our lives and realizing you're not a product of your circumstance. You're not a product of your environment. You are what you mold your environment to be. And you can really design your life if you put more effort into it. What are your thoughts on that? At YAP, we have a super unique company culture.

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I totally agree that, you know, everybody is multi-dimensional. You can have multiple talents. And nowadays, having multiple income streams and having multiple skills, that actually can provide you some financial value is really, you know, the way of the future. That's the future of work. You are the Mr. Future of Work and you know that, you know, the gig economy, having multiple income streams, that's reality now. It's actually really risky to have just one job nowadays. So sticking on basketball a little bit, is it true that you were actually really competitive when you were younger? Incredibly competitive when it comes to basketball. Absolutely. Yes.

True. Okay, cool, because my research team, I didn't hear it myself and I wanted to make sure I didn't have incorrect information. So you ended up deciding later on in life that you were going to unlearn being a competitive person. You decided that being competitive actually wasn't the healthiest way to success. So tell us about why you feel that being competitive isn't the best way towards success. And what's your alternative there? because everyone always thinks about life, who am I going to kill to get this job? Or how am I going to, you know, out towards someone to do this, right? Like, who am we competing with? Even in business, it's all about competition, competition, competition. But that's actually a horrible and very traditional way and very masculine, dominated way. You think about business. For me, you know, I had to unlearn the fact that everyone is like, everyone, someone's perception of you is not your reality.

right everyone often thinks that we all like people all want what they have right so it's that crabs in a barrel mentality like i'm in this bucket and i want to get out so in order for us to get out i have to pull you down so we can escape but the reality is that the more we do that to each other neither of us will escape this bucket right this circumstance right but if we these crabs all put our hands together and try to find a way to lean the bucket over, we'll just crawl out, right, versus trying to push each other up one by one. So there's a difference in mindset that you have to have in life because when you look at the most successful organizations, when you look at the most successful people, when you look at the most selective, collective, movements, whatever it is,

there's one thing in common, right? It was done through people working in alignment. and vision together around one common goal and where they want to go. So for me, I had to learn throughout my life, you know, from, you know, growing up, being a hot head, being a, being a young man, growing up in the hood, seeing life in the suburbs, I'm going to school where, you know, in school, it's very, it's very encouraged for you to think in a competitive manner. I got to get the best grades because I'm trying to be, you know, summa cum laude, but then once I graduate, I don't even have a job anyway. So you know what I'm saying? I had to realize like that's not life. The most successful people in life, they work together. They partner. They collaborate. They find other

people to create with. They lead together. And that's unique, right? Because the most successful people and the most successful organizations that do that, they don't have to worry about it because they nurture good relationships. And they fundamentally create success where not only do they win, but the other people who are they in line with, who they believe in, believe in them when. So you create reciprocity and synergy. And through that, you create abundance in the work that you do. And, you know, that's just the mindset I've primed in terms of how I operate

and even how we build our culture within our company guide. I can relate so much to that. I agree with everything you said. I love the crabs in a bucket analogy. I'm going to have to use that, you know, as I go on different interviews and talk about this topic too. So like I totally agree. And something that I just want to add to that is like you never want to hoard your network.

So me as a podcaster, I always say collaboration over a competition. And I get sponsored all the time now from different podcast apps because my podcast is becoming bigger and bigger. And, you know, I have a community of podcasters that I actually, we have a WhatsApp chat. I host a monthly mastermind call. And now what I do after I get a sponsor, I have them do. demo, you know, their software or whatever their product is on our next call. And I open up the opportunity to all my podcaster friends, a lot of whom are much more up and coming than I am.

And I know that right now I'm the one kind of leading the charge. I'm having the most success with my podcast, but I'm not worried about it because I think that if I elevate other people as they expand and grow their shows, they're going to throw opportunities my way. And, you know, they're going to engage all my stuff. They're going to support me. They're going to, you know, talk good about me behind my back and things like that. And I think all those things matter when it comes to your brand, your reputation. Yeah, hopefully. But like, you know, I just think that it's so funny. Some people hoard their network. I was talking about this with Jordan Harbinger when he came on my show. Some people hoard their network. And that's the worst thing you can do. You want to

introduce your network to other people, give other people opportunities and grow your network. That's how you have, you know, a life of abundance like you were talking about. So I completely agree. And I think, you gave some really good insight there. Yeah, no. I love that philosophy. Yeah. So let's talk about college. So you got two degrees. They're very different. You got a degree in psychology and then you went to graduate school for a master's degree in information science. Was that calculated? Like did you always know you wanted to do both? How did you decide that you're going to get those dual degrees and what was the purpose behind that? Yeah. So in many ways, it was calculated because when I got my psychology degree at Texas Tech University and then got my UT Austin degree in information studies, I actually was

coming from getting my degree at Texas University in psychology and then realizing, you know what, I actually do not think I want to have a career as a psychologist or a therapist. I'm not interested in that. I'm really interested in that. I'm really interested in. how psychology applies to how people interact with technology, because I'm really interested in how people engage with things such as what we're engaging with right now, and what are the dynamics of that? Where is that going? Is it intuitive? How do people think about products? So I was very calculated saying, you know what? After getting my feet wet and user experience design while I was at Texas Tech University, I had internships that really grew up. I need to

move up and, you know, find a grab program that allows me to work on more projects, build my network a little bit more, and then use that same leverage, that same credibility to eventually go into the workforce. And, you know, I don't regret it. I think that for me, it was a calculated decision that's paid off because it allowed me to, I think differently than people when it comes to products and when it comes to human behavior because of those degrees, right? And I only don't apply them in the space of psychology. I also apply to how I think about business and building culture and creating community. And that's why I'm a huge advocate and would love your thoughts on this on the importance

of humanities because the people who study humanities are really effective at building relationships and I think understanding how to create things. So I not just be a consumer, but be a creator similar to what you do. Yeah, yeah, totally. I totally agree. I wish that I got a psychology degree. I think that I'm lucky where I interview a lot of people about behavioral psychology and really have gotten basically my own college education from this podcast interviewing people

like Robert Green Chase Hughes, like ex-fbi agents and stuff like that. So I've been lucky to have just learned it in the streets, so to say. But I wish that I got a psychology degree because I agree that knowing why people are motivated and why they do things is so important when it comes to selling and business and understanding people like how to build a community and things like that, which we'll get into in a bit. So you just mentioned internships. You mentioned that you had several internships. And my research team tells me that you applied to hundreds of internships and got a lot of nose. And it wasn't until Google, which is, if you're talking about internships, that's like cream of the crap, actually accepted you as an intern.

And that was your foot in the door. And then that's how you got to Microsoft and we work and had the, you know, credibility to get other jobs in the future. So, What was the difference between your application with Google and all the other intern applications that you sent out? Did you do something different with Google? And what would you recommend to people in terms of getting themselves, like, their foot in the door in a company that they're really interested in? First of all, nods off to your research team. Y'all is amazing. Howla's research team? Amazing work.

You know, she needs to pay y'all double what she does. So shout out to you. Hey, hey. No, seriously, you have a stellar team, Hala. So what was unique about my Google was I had a referral, and I reached out to people that actually went to UT at the time, who worked with Google, and I actually put the referral down in my application. But I don't think that was what actually made the difference.

Like, there's many people who apply to Google with the referral and they get the job. What I actually made the difference, and I want to be very frank with you, was I took a risk. I took a risk and said, like, I took a risk. and said, like, I can get this role at Google. And more importantly, I have the skills, I have the credibility. It's doable, right? And I went through the process and I was fortunate enough, right? I was chasing the opportunity and it happened for me. Gratefully, I had the referral. But that's actually not what did it because I also had to interview with a UX researcher at the time and ask her questions about, you know, how would I approach UX research? What would I do

differently? Why am I fit for the role? Like, I had to be ready. I had to be competent enough to get this role with Google. And that was a life-changing role for me, and it allowed me to see things at a really high level on how to build organizations. Things that I still remember until this day that allow me to apply on how I build or how I'm building our company. I'm thinking about our movement. And I feel as if, for me, what I did different was I took the risk. Because the reality is that most people, a lot of people apply to Google. They get a lot of applications.

Very few people realize that they always often treat themselves as a commodity when they apply to these places. They just think, oh, they take like Google. take the chance on me, but really you're the talent. You're the asset. If you're applying to Google, one, it says a lot about you and your confidence and your conviction, but they need you, right? Like, you're just not a commodity. And I just took this risk and realizing I know I'm definitely, if not good enough, well, well prepared for this growth opportunity, right? And I think that's the mindset shift that allowed me to take that risk. And then realizing the upside of it was tremendous because I got Google on my resume. I learned a ton. I built some good relationships.

and, you know, I've moved on with my career since then. And I think a lot more people need to think about their career like that. I think Google's an amazing brand. A lot of other companies are amazing. But you have to change the way you, even now in the future of work, as we build it, you have to change the way you think about your career. Like, you are the asset. You're the talent.

So take the risk the right way. Like find cultures that work for you. And if anything, create those opportunities that give you the most upside in your career. Yeah. So I can totally relate. I totally agree with everything that you're saying in terms of confidence and needing the confidence first before you actually land the job. It's sort of like you need to internally work on yourself. Some of you guys who have been listening to show, if you've listened to my life story, you'd know that in high school and middle school, I would fail at everything. I never got on the cheerleading team. I never got a lead in the play. I would always try out for things, be president of my student council. I'd never get anything. I never got anything. until college. And the first, like, big break I got was an internship at Hot 97. And the thing that changed why I actually got that internship and that really kicked off my love for radio and everything that I am today was really based on that internship at Hot 97, which is like a number one radio station. It was because I found the law of attraction. And before that, I had no idea about the law

of attraction. I got super into it. I was totally changed my mindset, totally changed the thoughts that were in my head and the narrative that went in my head where I would tell myself every day, I'm great, I'm smart, I'm talented, I'm beautiful, where, you know, before my thoughts in my head were so negative. And I'm sure that showed on my face, on my aura, the way that I approached people. And of course they didn't think that I was good enough to be, you know, the lead in the play or, you know, the captain of the cheerleading team, whatever it was, because I didn't feel that way and I didn't trust myself and I didn't believe in myself. And so I totally agree that it's sort of like an inside job. You need to believe in yourself first. You need to really own your

value so that when you do go to the interview, you crush it because you're just so confident. Now I crush every interview I've ever been on. Like since I've had that mentality shift, people are approaching me for opportunities. It's never like, I'm never the weak person in the situation. It's always people kind of fighting for me to be on their team. And so I can totally relate that it's an inside job really. And you would be surprised once you believe in yourself, how much other people are going to believe in you too. You're so right. You're so right.

And you got to be wary of people who try to make you feel small around them. Those are the worst type of people to be around because they're often struggling and they feel small in themselves. And they crave status and power in order to make others feel smaller. And, you know, that's often some of the things I've observed in my career in life where you often, a lot of people who should think. bigger than their circumstance, who should operate bigger than their circumstance, are afraid to because they work with people or they have people in their lives who often try to make them

feel small and relegate them to a commodity and not an asset. I, for one, think that that's unhealthy and toxic relationships. And there's cultures like that in workplaces and in families. And you should never, you know, you should definitely run away from any culture like that if you're listening or watching and you've ever felt like that. Let's touch on that for a moment because I know that, you know, your first job or one of your first big jobs was at Microsoft. And you actually did not like the culture there. You actually did not like that boss and felt like he wasn't aligned with your career goals

and really wasn't on your side. And you weren't really digging that culture over there. So tell us, you know, why you felt that way. I know that when you left, you actually talked to your manager about how things were going and how you felt about the culture and you stood up for yourself. So tell us about that culture and also like how and when you should advocate for yourself. Yeah. So for me, you know, while I was working with myself and I was working in a culture like that

where, you know, I saw up front the fact that someone toxic was hurting the culture. I remember that I went into my boss literally his office one day. He had white walls. You sit in front of his desk on a Windows computer. and literally he turns in me as I walk in, I sit on a brown chair, and he's looking at me with a brown shirt and black glasses, and I look at him straight in his face,

and I tell him, look, I'm not happy here. I don't feel like you're doing enough to grow me. Although I was killing it, all right, my teammates loved me. I was good for the culture. I just didn't feel as if I was being developed. And he looks me dead in my eyes and he says, it's not my job to grow you. It's not my job to coach you and all of that.

And then that's when I realized, you know, great manager, but an awful leader, right? He's a great at delegating work, getting work done, making sure milestones are met, but he's not a leader. And for me, I felt this if I deserve better because I was a leader, right? And I carry myself in high stature. And I think that a lot of people need to run away from these environments that are toxic like that, right? Like a lot of people often, they stay in an environment where they're not wanted and they don't feel wanted. and it's killing them. I have friends in my life in environments like that.

They're like, I'm tired of my corporate job. And it's like, I encourage them. Well, do something about it, right? If you have enough saved, if you feel as if you have an opportunity, you can create another opportunity, you're talented. Why not seek something else? Why do you feel as if you have to relegate yourself to only working with this one employer? And as we mentioned earlier, you know, that's really risky nowadays, right?

because we were relying on just one revenue street. So I think that to answer your question, we need to want to have leaders creating more healthy organizations filled with love and trust and compassion. And we need people realizing that they're just not their circumstance as well. Yeah, I totally agree there. Something that I want to touch on, which is really good thing to discuss right now,

especially with all the Black Lives Matter movement, the protests that have been going on, I think, you know, I would be missing out if I didn't ask you about this and about this topic. And so a lot of people, you know, especially a few months back when there was George Floyd and everybody was kind of mobilizing around that, all these corporate companies, you know,

they emailed their employees, statements, but then they didn't really back it up with much action. And a lot of the black employees that I'm friends with and coworkers, they feel that in general, there was a lot of talk and not much doing. And so from your perspective, what can companies do to actually, you know, not just talk to talk, but also walk the walk when it comes to diversity and inclusion and supporting their black employees through this really tough time?

Well, you know, it's tough for those organizations, right? Because they're so big and they didn't grow up in a time where they had to think about inclusion first. So one of the things I would recommend organizations do to walk to walk and talk to talk is really understand where the world is going. You know, I'm a big, there's certain things that I'm building within our culture, a guy that are completely counterculture to how we think about work. We offer 30-hour work weeks. We're thinking inclusive from the ground up and how we're building our venture and our software

platform. We engage with diverse vendors, definitely, when it comes to who are sourcing projects from and outsourcing even. In addition to that, you know, we fundamentally believe in equity-based leadership. We offer our employees' equity

and more importantly, educate them on how to build wealth in their financial literacy. I do my best as a leader to make sure I'm there for our team, even in the early days of what we're building. And, you know, lastly, we're really focused on making sure

that we evangelize, you know, the type of leadership we believe in, right? Like, we believe in, who are compassionate, who are humanistic, and at the end of the day, who want to see everyone win. It's not just about one type of white male. Like, we want to see everyone win in society, right? So I think inclusion, what it looks like for companies, it varies, but they fundamentally have to have to ask themselves, in your organization, are you thinking about not just hiring, but are you thinking about belonging in an inclusive manner, right? Because a lot of companies

You start with hiring, hiring, hiring, where's the pipeline? There is no pipeline problem. One, number two, fundamentally, it's not your hiring that's ineffective. It's actually your culture and what the belonging looks like. And the people you have executive roles and board roles or even have as the CEO, they don't really have the empathy for a multicultural world or a multicultural organization.

And you see it in how they make decisions because they're only thinking about it in a my point of view of how will this affect people who are my kind. So they're biased. So that's why I often encourage leaders and organizations to see, look at your advisory board for your company, look at your board of directors for your company, look at your executive team for your company. God dang it, look at your shareholders. Are you sourcing capital from diverse firms that have invested in your business, right? All of these things influence and impact, How does one thing about inclusion within a company's culture? Now, in the venture capital world, I'm an investor, I invest in companies.

You know, you're seeing a rise in firms that have a diversity thesis and focus on investing in diverse women, black, brown, and, you know, LGBTQ founders. And there's a reason for that because there hasn't been firms in the past focused on those types of founders who are building the next generation of companies. And we are looking at a world now in 10, 15, 20 years where in the ecosystem, you're going to see much more multicultural founders, diverse founders who are building amazing companies and leading amazing movements, right, around whatever it is that they're doing. And I think that's important because we haven't seen that in so long. And what we saw in the last 10, 20, 30 years of business is this idea that we need to only continue pushing capital towards white males who are building. in companies. And we're not living in a world that's going to be a white majority in the future.

We're living in a world that's going to be minorities that are the majority. So you want to be, you want to invest for that type of world. And more importantly, you want to invest in a culture within your organization that nurtures that type of inclusion and cultural movement, in my opinion. Yeah. I think that's solid advice to business owners in terms of how they can have a more diverse culture. So let's talk about the difference in culture. You were the chief evangelist at WeWork. And then you, you know, you are also at Microsoft, which wasn't a great culture. And you also have guide. You were just talking about your app. So contrasts the difference between a good culture and a bad culture for us. Oh, I could do this. In a good culture, you see people, no, seriously,

you see something that's called psychological safety. People aren't afraid to share their ideas, ask questions, help each other out in terms of sharing what's going on in a different division. In a bad culture, it's doggy dog, right? I'm not going to tell you what I'm working on because I feel like you're going to steal my idea. Like, you're going to compete with me.

I'm not going to tell you what I'm working on because I want to be the first to be recognized for that promotion. I'm not going to tell you what I'm working on because I want all eyes on me. It's very masculine in terms of tropes and themes, right? It's all about me. I, I, I, I, and really good cultures, it's more about we. It's more collectivist.

It's more about you have an ownership. I have ownership. Let's get it done together. And I want to be very frank with you. Those types of cultures are much more effective than very masculine, I dominate cultures. And I see in my company right now in terms of how we're growing, how we think about our company, the conversations I have with our team, and also the energy that we give to our members and that people who believe in our vision, right?

Like, we wouldn't exist if we didn't have customers. We wouldn't be going if people didn't believe in what we're doing. And I think that we're going to move towards a world where the companies that are successful, the ventures that are successful in the next five, 10, 20 years are companies who truly lead with inclusion. And they lead with a we mindset versus an I mindset. What are your thoughts on that? Happy New Year, Yap, gang. I just love the unique energy of the new year.

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today at framer.com slash profiting for 30% off a Framer pro annual plan. That's 30% off in 2026. Again, that's Framer.com slash profiting for 30% off Framer.com slash profiting. Rules and restrictions apply. No, I totally agree. So I came from HP, which was, you know, at the time Meg Whitman was the CEO. And the culture there was totally different. I was allowed to do whatever I wanted. I was given leadership positions, even though I was so young. They trusted me. I could have an idea and just work on it and make a difference, not like that at other companies.

Not every company is like that. And so I think it's really important when you're younger to really explore different companies because every culture is different and you might think that it's always the same in every company and it's not. Every company is totally different. And so you do want to take your time and see what the culture is like because it will impact your day to day. It will impact your mood, your productivity,

and your fulfillment at work, honestly. So I totally agree with everything that you are saying. Okay, so I have a quote from an Instagram post. From October 1st, you said, invest in legacy projects, do things that you won't regret in 10 years. What do you mean by that? Yeah, you know, a lot of people, when they build anything, it's obviously that they want instant gratification, right?

Like they want to have, for example, they want to have revenue in a few months, right? Or they want everyone to recognize them for their craft or their work. And they just started learning the software, this technical program, or they just started podcasting, right? A lot of people do things almost for instant gratification, right? We have a mutual friend in Mark Metry. He's been doing his podcast for years now.

You've been doing your podcast for quite some time now. It took work. You put in a lot of time in it, and you will continue putting a lot of time into it. It's almost a legacy project for you, right? And the same goes for what we're building with Guy. For us, it's a legacy project. It's a moving asset.

You know, we've raised capital. We are, you know, we are venture backed. And, you know, we've been validated because we now have customers, right? Anything that's great takes time, right? Even in the early days of it, it takes time. It doesn't happen overnight. You know, even now people are really ready. recognizing what we've been doing, but we've been doing it for years. I've been building community

for years. And now it's being manifested in a way where, wow, like, people are seeing the success, they're seeing the opportunity, they're seeing the promise. And that's why I believe in this whole notion. And I'm sure you can speak to this, is that there is no such thing as an overnight success. And legacy projects, things that you are invested in for 10 years, those are the things that truly matriculate into your legacy. They truly matriculate into your legacy. They truly matriculate into what people will remember you for and hopefully what the world wants. So, you know, don't just invest in a,

don't just build a startup, build a legacy project. Build something that you're committed to because you're solving a problem that you're passionate about. You know, for us, you know, COVID-19 causes us to pivot our business. Pre-COVID-19, we were focused on life skills training for high school students. But then when COVID-19 happened for our business,

it actually changed the game for us in a big way because it pivoted us into a bigger market. We raised money. and now so many people are seeing the potential and the promise in where we're going as a company. And for me, as a founder and a CEO and someone that's been committed to this for three years now, you know, it's the greatest thing to see people kind of supporting us the movement and realize, oh, this is why this company needs to exist. And for me, I, you know, I see myself doing and building our company for years to come

because I love our problem and what we're solving for. And that's what I meant by that post. It's like invest in legacy projects because what people are doing. going to remember you for. Yeah. I think that's so powerful because it's so true. And I think anybody who does that, they're the people that people look up to. People like you and like not to tutor on horns, but me and you, for example, like I am putting my energy into something long term. You know, I'm not just trying to get rich quick or do a quick scheme in order to make it. It's hard work. And it's It's year over year.

And you also, I think thinking about 10 years out, is this something that I'm going to be, you know, look back and feel proud of or is this something I'm going to feel embarrassed about? It's a good litmus test in terms of where you spend your time and how you spend your time. So I think that's really cool stuff. Thank you for sharing. So I want to get into brand communities before we go. We're running out of time here. So I definitely want to talk about brand communities.

You've got some awesome principles. Like I said, you grew your LinkedIn to 250,000. And how many users do you have on your guide app? I think it's like 300,000 at least a community of people that you train, correct? We have a huge community. We have a huge community. In the product right now, we're only still supporting our early adopters and building the platform from the ground up. But our membership is 300,000, yes.

Amazing. So you obviously know how to build a community. It's no small feat to have 250,000 followers on LinkedIn. I have 65 and everybody thinks I'm an influencer. You, you know, crush that. So it's no small feat. You obviously know how to connect people, know how to bring people into your brand.

And you talk about this thing called the Pi principle a lot. And it stands for purpose, influence, and experiences. So tell us more about this Pi principle. And later on, I'd love for you to give us some real examples. I know you talk about the Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King and his involvement and how the Pi Principle relates to everything that he did. I'd love to actually get some real life examples as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's so funny because I haven't shared about that principle in quite some time. So I think the pie principle is pretty important. And you shared it. Howla. Purpose, influence, and the E stands for experiences, right? So that's powerful in a sense of purpose, influence, and experiences. So I think a lot of organizations, they lead with purpose. They try to be influencers in terms of, you know, hopefully taking the stance on issues.

But very few of them create experiences for their communities. So a great example of this is Apple. They have a very clear purpose. They really believe in quality, creators, and really empowering people with their devices. Influence. Apple takes a lot of amazing stances on privacy, the importance of privacy. If you look at their product, oh my goodness, I trust Apple because they're so focused on user privacy versus other technology companies. And then think about experiences for Apple, right, in this framework. And experience with Apple is standing in line waiting for the new iPhone because there's so many people who meet new people who are fans of Apple just do that experience.

They get to, they take pictures. Like people celebrate when a new iPhone launches or Apple does anything amazing and they wait in line. And it's almost like an event in itself to wait in line and experience the brand and all of its members, right? So purpose, influence, and experiences. Right there, that's why Apple has such a big pie in the market. marketplace and as a company because they really live it through their brand. And when you think of your company like that, like you actually start realizing, wow, we can do so much to engage and empower our people and really kind of declare why we exist to the world. And I think the most

successful company, similar to Apple, do that. Yeah. And I think it's important to bring people along the journey, you know, make sure that they're actually involved. I think there's a lot of brands out there They're really talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, you know, and they don't engage anyone. They don't bring them in. They don't make people feel connected or feel like what they're doing is meaningful. They're just promoting. And I feel like the pie principle is all about bringing people along the journey from my understanding, at least. Yep, 100%.

You got to bring people along the pie. Yeah. So do you have any other examples in terms of how to use pie? I think maybe Google is an example you've used in the past or the civil rights movement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think a super, a super relevant one right now, I think what we saw with the elections, right?

And I want to give a good example in terms of how the Democratic Party, you know, they led with a really great narrative. To reclaim the soul of a nation, that was the purpose of their campaign. That's what they led with. Influence Kamala's influence in terms of Encore. they relied on cultural leaders such as LeBron, Alicia Keys, Beyonce,

shared a post on Biden Harris, on her IG. They really tapped into the culture to try to get as much attention to reach to empower people to vote. And then lastly, experiences. How did they create experiences? They went on campaign, right? They created events, and they had everyone who was a part that was donating and that was a part of that movement in terms of Biden Harris.

They had them really rallying for them, right? and campaigning. And that's what led, you know, Joe, in my opinion, to win the election. And a lot of people don't often realize, I think when they think about democracy, and they think about us selecting leaders, it's pretty much a lot of marketing and branding. It's a lot of marketing and branding to really do. Oh, yeah. You know, like build a movement and get people inspired and then also get donations. And I think the Biden Harris campaign did an amazing job with how they thought about the brand,

how they thought about positioning Kamala and. as well as Joe, and also how they really, you know, I think how they, how they rally people to unite versus create disparity, right? And I think those are the types of narratives that inspire us to build a more progressive, better world, inspire people to do better for their collective communities. So that's another example of pie there. So I love the framework because it scales. And, you know, I even use it myself and how we build our company.

Amazing. So the last question that I ask all my guests is, what is your secret to profiting in life? Wow, that's powerful. My secret to profiting in life is I think about what I can give first, not what I can take. I focus on giving. I focus on finding where can I add value versus where can I take value. And when you think from a different mindset, what can I invest in, whether it be my time or my money,

or who can I share my resources with. You're much more likely to profit. You're much more likely of growing your career and be a better person, in my opinion. You know, I hear this from so many successful people that come on our show. It's all about service, providing value,

giving more than you take. Really, really great advice here. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do? Yeah, so follow me, Mr. Futureof Work.com. Make sure you check out Big Black T, dot com as well if you want some tea and follow our movement with our guide movement guide app.com. So Mr. Futureofwork.com, big black tea.com if you want some tea, if you want the tea, and check

out guideapp.com to see all of the amazing things we're doing it and be a part of our early access, early adoptive group. I got to ask you, what is, I saw something briefly in my notes about big black tea. Tell us about that really quick. So what is that all about? Yeah, that's the tea brand that we launched for our guide community. And that's because as we built the software platform, building software takes time. And a lot of people don't realize this. It takes a lot of time to build quality software. And we launched the tea brand just to kind of hold our community off and give our members some tea because we believe tea is really amazing, creating peace and cultivating community.

And, you know, it's been amazing. We've had amazing luminaries such as Minda Hearts, John. and Rikintel, as well as Jamie Schmidt, who are really influential in their respective spaces of I'm really leading around diversity, equity, inclusion, smart cities as well as consumer product goods. They've all bought the tea, and we only continue to have more people buying the tea. So, you know, for us, you know, it's a billion dollar product line in the future. So we've been really, we've been excited to see so many people buying the tea. And more importantly, our guide community buying the tea and seeing the power of our movement.

and where we're going. Wow, that's so unique to have a tea in a software business and somehow make it work very cool stuff. So thank you so much, Tim, for coming on the show. It was a pleasure having you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Hala, for having me. It was a pleasure speaking with you, and I hope to be back on the show in the future. Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting Podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please write us a review or comment on your favorite platform. Nothing makes us happier than reading your reviews. We'd love to hear what you think about the show. And don't forget to share this podcast with your friends, family, and on social media. I always repost, reshare, and support those who support us.

You can find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn. Just search for my name. It's Hala Taha. Big thanks to the YAP team, as always. This is Hala, signing off.