Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - YAPClassic: Jordan Harbinger on Building Your Social Capital

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

Build and spend your social capital wisely! Today on YAP, Hala chats with Jordan Harbinger, “The Larry King” of podcasters and social dynamics expert who has been doing his podcasting thing for over 12 years. Jordan started out on “The Art of Charm,” podcast and now he hosts “The Jordan Harbinger Show” which is one of the most popular podcasts in the world, and was awarded the Best Podcast of 2018 by Apple.    Listen to #57 to learn how to care for your network to make it stronger than ever, and get Jordan’s key practical's to boost your confidence and ace your first impressions. As a bonus, we’ll also dig into podcasting and cover topics like how he studies for his guests to why most podcasts fail. Sponsored by -  The Jordan Harbinger Show. Listen to the show here jordanharbinger.com/start Wealthfront - Get Your First $5,000 Managed For Free at wealthfront.com/yap Social Media:  Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Follow Hala on Clubhouse: @halataha Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Today on the show, I'm chatting with Jordan Harbinger, the Larry King of Podcasters and social dynamics expert who has been doing his podcasting thing for over 12 years. He started out on the art of charm podcast, and now he hosts the Jordan Harbanger show, which is just a couple years old and was awarded the best podcast of 2018 by Apple. In this episode, we'll talk about how to care for your network to make it stronger than ever, we'll get Jordan's key practicals to boost your confidence and ace your first impressions,

and we'll dig into podcasting, covering topics like how he studies for his guests to why most podcasts fail. Well, thanks for having me on. I'm stoked for this. I'm actually really excited and that's a great cartoon. I think they call me the Larry King of podcasting because I'm young and relevant. I agree. So I can't believe that you got best podcast of 2018. I would like die to have that title. How did that feel? Well, first of all, they don't tell you that that's gonna happen. They're just like, you hear about it from your friends.

Like people go, hey, congratulations, and you get like a text message from Australia four o'clock in the morning. And those people who've been up, they're like, hey, I just checked the listings and I saw the press release from Apple, congrats on being listed as best of 2018. And then you get up and make a pot of coffee and you check your texts and you're like,

oh, right. Okay, that's pretty cool. I didn't know that was going to happen. Then you check and make sure that they're not wrong and they didn't get somebody else that sounds like you, which probably happens to you a lot given that your name could like, there's probably other people with that name that are like 39 or 59 year old dudes who live in Dubai or something. And then I checked that and I was like, wow, this is really cool. I better take screenshots before they figured out that I don't belong here, which just kind of goes into my imposter syndrome that never goes away for a lot of people. And I took screenshots and then put it in every single piece of marketing materials ever once I got.

Confirmation from Apple that it wasn't a weird mistake, that was going away. Oh my God, what an amazing accomplishment. And so you've been podcasting for over 12 years, which means that you've been podcasting since around 2008. And I actually in 2009, 2010, I used to do a lot of internet radio shows. I used to work at Hot 97. I was Angie Martinez's assistant.

And I used to have internet radio show is on the side. And podcasting like back then, like I didn't even know what podcasting was. So how did you find out about podcasting? And I know you started off as a lawyer. So how did you get end up being a podcaster? So I started talking about my, well, actually, let me even back up. I decided I was going to be a lawyer for the sole reason that I was unable to get a job doing pretty much anything, even with a four year degree from the University of Michigan.

And that was terrifying. And of course, what you do when that happens is you panic and you ask everybody for advice, and then you get highly unqualified advice like from your, in this case, my aunt, who was like a gym teacher, saying, you should be a lawyer because one time you argued with me when you were 13 and like clearly you like arguing, become a lawyer. By the way, not good advice. Don't, don't do that. And I went to law school because that was highly recommended by a lot of other people just because it's something to do. And by the way, none of those people were attorneys. And I applied to law school. I got into law school. I studied really, really, really hard because everybody was super smart. It was a really good law school.

It was the University of Michigan. I felt like again, in Postor Syndrome, I don't belong here. I'm got to be like the bottom of the barrel. I'm going to fail out all this stuff. And I ended up getting a job at a Wall Street firm because I worked my buns off and I realized, uh, oh, everybody at this firm works really hard. Everybody's really smart. I'm probably surprised, surprised and positive syndrome. I'm going to get fired if they see me a lot. If I'm around a lot, they're going to realize I'm the guy who slipped through the cracks and doesn't belong here. I better go and figure out a way to minimize my footprint, which is actually not the

best idea. It's not how you handle it, becoming, you need to become a high performer and live in and own it and not like hide, but I was like, I'll hide. I'll work from home. So I asked one of the youngest partners why he was never in the office thinking, oh, he must work from home. And so if I figure out how to work from home, I won't get fired and I'll be able to last longer here. Maybe that extra time that I buy will buy me enough time to figure out what the hell to do at a big law firm like this to not get fired and be valuable. And so what happened was

he actually told me not only is he not working from home, he's actually not even working to bill hours most of the time. He's generating business for the law firm, which blew my mind. I'd never even heard of that. I just assumed at age 26 or whatever that people looked up law firms in the yellow pages or something, but no, it's not really how it works at the multi-million dollar deal level with investment banks and corporate clients. So I said, oh, you're developing business for the firm. Well, how do you do that?

And he said, it's about your network. It's about who you know, who knows you, who knows likes and corporate clients. So I said, Oh, you're developing business for the firm. Well, how do you do that? And he said, it's about your network. It's about who you know, who knows you, who knows likes and trust you. He didn't put it in concise terms like that. But he kind of communicated that to me. And I thought, OK, so if it's not just about working really hard, for sure, it is. You have to work your butt off. But if that's not enough, if being smart is also not only enough, if working hard and being smart together is not enough, what's the secret sort of third competitive advantage that I'm gonna get? Because I can work hard.

I have two brain cells to rub together, as my mother would say, but I'm not really that well networked. I don't have a competitive advantage. Everyone here is really smart. Everyone works really hard. What do I do? So I needed to create a

network and I had no clue how to do that because nobody ever taught us networking and relationship development skills. I thought networking was like showing up to a party with business cards and being like, Hey, if you need a lawyer, give me a call and then like smoking a cigar and then driving off in my rules right. So I had no idea what was involved. So I spent the next, I don't know, 13 years now, but in the immediate term, the next few months to years, working on everything that I could find with networking. And I took like Dale Carnegie classes and red books. And what I realized was, if you're not getting

a million dollar, a multi-million dollar law deal, it's not because you didn't look them in the eye and have a firm handshake like it's not because you didn't smoke that shoe on that cigar and drive off in your rules. It's because people don't really know, like, and trust you, but some guy in a sweater vest teaching a Dale Carnegie course at the YMCA. He can't articulate that. He can't help you. There's a reason he's teaching Dale Carnegie classes part time at the YMCA or the learning addicts.

Not to belittle those guys, they were great help to me in the beginning, but they got me to this C level and I needed to be at the A level to really create relationships that were going to be meaningful to a top wall street firm period. So I started reading books on psychology, human performance, what causes people to know, like, and trust you, influence, and nonverbal communication tactics. And this is early, like, early odds, 2007, 8, 9, 10, up to now. So back then, there weren't, like, well, first of all, YouTube didn't exist. So there weren't YouTube channels like Charisma on where they teach some of these skills. There weren't companies like what I do at the Jordan Harbinger show and what I did with

my old company, which is since erupted into a giant mess. We don't even talk about that anymore. But like, there was nothing like this. And like, I ended up teaching not only law firms and lawyers what I was doing, but after I left the law due to the economic downturn, thank God, that's the thing that ever happened to me. And I'm probably the only one who can say that. But like due to the economic downturn, Thank God, best thing that ever happened to me. And I'm probably the only one who can say that. But like due to the economic downturn,

I ended up teaching it like the Central Intelligence Agency, the US military, special forces, special operations, MI6 over in England, which is their spy agency, their intelligence agency I should say. And corporations like LinkedIn, Facebook, Apple. So I got really lucky in that I started studying something that I thought everybody else knew, but it turns out some people were naturally good at it and everybody else was just kind

of screwed. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I learned this very piecemeal deliberately. And I started talking about it. Before I started talking about it with corporations though, I started talking about it with lawyers. And I found that law firms were kind of like, we don't really care. Some of our people are good at this and some of our people are not. And then my friends started to realize that they could apply it to dating and that turned into a multi-million dollar company, which I have since left.

So you alluded to the fact that, you know, you got let go, I believe, during the financial downturn from your law firm. Yeah, I mean, it was kind downturn from your firm. Yeah. I mean, it was kind of like that. It was just to correct the record here. You're mostly right, but it was kind of like, hey, you all should get another job, all, like 63 of you in this class. We're not going to let you go, but you're probably not going to be here because the firm

is closing, but it wasn't like, you're as much of a schmuck as you always thought you were Jordan. Get out. And you weren't like single doubt. Yeah. Yeah, it was like everybody, this is a sinking ship, go find another job. And I was like, yo, though, I'm just going to do my show because law sucks. Yeah.

And so you dealt with that failure. And then you started the art of charm with your partners and it was super successful. And then you guys had a falling out. So how do you deal with failure? Because you obviously have the ability to like, you know, get back up on your feet. Now you have like a bigger podcast than the former and you're doing much better things.

And I couldn't tell you what your partner's names were. But I know your name. So how do you deal with failure? How did you get back up on your feet? Yeah, so the old company that I literally just settled a lawsuit with, because they tried to sue me from starting this. So I have like a nice little zip up on that.

I will tell you hands down the best thing that ever happened to me other than leaving my law job was leaving that company. And I should probably leave it at that. There's a reason you don't know anybody else that worked there. And the reason is because what we do at the Jordan Harbinger show is all of the right things that made the former company great with none of the ridiculousness that might come with having certain people in an organization. I got to tread pretty lightly here for good reason. I got to keep it classy. But what we've done with the Jordan Harbinger show, I thought when I left that company, I thought I am so screwed.

I spent 11 years building a show, a company, I should say I have to start over from zero. And I kind of pulled a Jerry McGuire where I was like, you know what? I'm sick of this. I'm leaving who's coming with me. And the answer was literally everyone pretty much, except for my current partners. And that turned out to be a massive blessing because I was able to take my entire team with me to the Jordan Harbinger show. So I didn't have to like retrain people, but I did have to start what I thought was going to be from scratch with my audience. And as it turned out, my network was the best insurance policy that money cannot buy.

And what I mean by that is I made 140 phone calls I think like the first two weeks that I was out of my, you know what? And I said, here's the switch, I'm in trouble man. And all of these, literally hundreds of people stepped up and they said, what can I do? And I said, publicize the Jordan Harbinger show, throw me anything that you can in terms of that. And tell one to two people in your circle, what has happened to me? And let me know if they can help because I can't

call everyone. So I would call a hundred people. And then like 300 people would blast their email list, have me on their podcast, make an announcement on their show. I couldn't have purchased that amount of publicity. If I'd had $2 million in straight up cash in my garage or under my mattress, it was my network that came and rescued my bacon. And that was something I never, nobody, nobody ever says, there's a phrase called dig the well before your thirsty. I think it's a book by Harvey McCain, even before that it was out before that. It's like an African proverb or something like that. Dig the well before your thirsty. I think it's a book by Harvey McKay. And even before that, it was out before that. It's like an African proverb or something like that.

Dig the well before your thirsty. The problem is nobody ever thinks, you know what? There's a damn good chance I'm gonna be thirsty pretty soon. Everyone's like, that'll never happen to me. And I was definitely in that camp. I was like, oh, dig the well before your thirsty. You know, you don't wanna call on relationships and then be needy and I'll get into all that

in a second and the how-tos. But nobody thinks my life is going to super just implode. And then I'm going to have to figure out how to start from scratch because one, it rarely happens. Thank goodness. And two, nightmare scenarios are pretty rare, just like people whose houses get destroyed in an earthquake. Maybe they're insured for that in California.

But a lot of us are just like, well, the odds are slim. That's why I only pay a few hundred bucks a year in insurance because I can replace a couch. You know what I'm saying? Like, you don't expect this, this type of thing to happen. It's no good way to live. But when it does, if you've dug the well, you are going to be okay. If you haven't, you have your work cut out for you, your screwed. Yeah. So let's talk about that. It's. It's really important to kind of throw out lifelines to your connections when you don't need them so that when you are in a pickle, you can call on people and they won't be like, oh, like you're just calling out of the blue. I don't really want to help you.

You're just showing up out of nowhere. So how do you kind of sow the seeds for your community and ensure that when you do need help, you have the connections there for you? I love the term lifelines. Actually, I've got an online course that I give away for free about networking called six-minute networking, and maybe we can plug that like that end or something. One of the first exercises, I don't think it's the first. It's one of the first. It's called layoff lifelines. And so I love the term lifelines. What this exercise is is find, make a list of like 10, 15 people where if you got laid off today,

who would be on that list of like, oh my gosh, I better call my old boss, I better call that guidance counselor from school, I gotta call my neighbor's dad for growing up because he was successful entrepreneur and I know he's got like a multinational companies on the board or something. I better call my, these people like make that list now and reach out to them now because if you get laid off today, that phone call is like, hey Jim, how's it going? Yes, so do you know where I can get a job because I don't know where my next meal is coming

from? And they're like, whoa, we haven't talked in like eight years. I wish you well, but if you heard of like hotjobs.net and you're like, no, help me. But if you reach out to them now and you have no agenda and you're like, hey, look, Jim, it's been eight years. I have been garbage at keeping in touch. I like to keep my network going as I get older. I realize how important that is. I know you're a successful entrepreneur. I should have learned. I should

have taken the opportunity to learn from you 10 years ago, but I didn't anyway. What's new? I, you know, do you still live in Michigan? Nothing. No agenda, just keeping in touch. And then you literally keep that relationship going. Is that person more likely to help you after two years of, oh my gosh, Jordan, of guy who I talked to once every three to six months, or is it like this dude who comes out of nowhere? And if you need a better analogy or metaphor, think of it like this or example, I should say, think of it like this. Old friend from high school says, hey, howell, what's up? And you're like, oh, hey, what's going on, Jordan? I think you were in my bio class. And I'm like, yeah, and you're like, you're in your head, you're like, oh, hey, what's going on, Jordan? I think you were in my bio class, and I'm like, yeah,

in your head, you're like, Urbale for Scientology, like, when are you gonna tell me what you are trying to get from me, because it sure as hell isn't like, what's going on? I heard you have a Chihuahua, like, you want something, and I am suspicious until I find out what that is. But if I just reach out and I say, hey, I'm reaching out to people because I've been crappy keeping in touch, and I have kids if I just reach out and I say, hey, I'm reaching out to people

because I've been crappy keeping in touch and I have kids and I'm 40 and I'm socially isolated and it looks like you're successful, what's up? And then you're suspicious, but then in a month when I send you another message, you're less suspicious and then in six months after six other messages or two years after 10 other messages, you're like,

that's just Jordan, he just keeps in touch and he's a nice person and he's got a career and he's fine. Then if I'm like, uh-oh, I've got a big problem, you are a million times more likely to help me because I haven't tried to hide the ball. I haven't tried. I didn't use you for something. I've been keeping and maintaining a relationship in a way that required very, frankly, very little investment from me other than giving a crap about somebody other than myself for like five minutes a month, right?

So you have two practicals that I think really really nicely to this the first one is creating lists for your different types of people that are in your network and then I Remember hearing something about connect for do you mind just sharing that advice with our listeners? Yeah, so Connect4 is something I do every single day in the morning, usually weekdays honestly. It's not always for people, sometimes it's one or two, but I scroll, I open up my phone or I message or whatever, I scroll all the way down mostly to the bottom and there will be text threads there

because it sorts by most, as you are aware. I go and I find somebody where I'm like, oh my gosh, this date on this thing is like 7, 12, 2018. What is this guy doing? He's like a YouTuber that I ran into at a convention, and then we ended up splitting an Airbnb because the hotel res fell through. Like people like that.

And or just a friend that you've lost track of or lost touch with. And I'll say, hey, what's going on? I've done a bad job keeping in touch. Or I say, hey, it's been like a year or two. What's news with you? I had a kid. I got married. I'm not sure if I told you that.

I moved up to NorCal. I know you were in LA or you still out there. What's the latest? No rush on the reply. Just get back to me whenever you can. And I'll go through why that script is important. But a lot of times those people will respond and go, Jordan, oh my gosh, I haven't heard from you in forever.

Yeah, the last time we saw each other was at that conference in San Diego with a hotel res fell through. And you know, you get the conversation going, usually it falls off after three or four texts because we both have lives and we don't really, there's not a whole lot going on there, but I keep that refreshed.

And it makes sense. It's really easy, it's really scalable. lot going on there, but I keep that refreshed. And that it makes sense. It's really easy. It's really scalable. It doesn't take up time. I was going to do somewhere else. Like this is, you can do this between sets on the, whatever machine at the gym in the morning. Like this is Starbucks coffee line drill activity.

This is not something that takes half an hour. Takes like two minutes. So the reason I do that is because those are your weak endormant ties. And if you re-engage those, what you'll find is most of them will either not reply, fine, or they will reply and nothing will come of it. It'll be like, yeah, I'm reviewing VR gear on YouTube.

Cool, if I ever run into anybody as a good connection, I'll make that intro later, but whatever, usually nothing. But one out of, let's say, like 10 or 20, which is a few every week if you're doing four people a day, what happens is someone will hit me up like in two months and go, Hey, Jordan, do you ever do speaking? And I'll say, Yeah, why? You were top of mind because we talked the other day. And I'm walking into my annual sales meeting.

And we're looking for a keynote speaker. We've got a $20,000 budget. It's in a nice resort in Florida. Would that be something you're interested in because I'm throwing a few names in the hat and I'll be like, yeah, I would love to do that. You will get opportunities like that and sometimes they'll say, hey, do you know anybody I can hire for XYZ job? Maybe I'm not looking for a job, but maybe someone else in my network is looking for that.

And then I have an opportunity to help the person who just texted me and asked, and I have this amazing opportunity for somebody else in my network who may be as a graphic designer, and it will be super grateful to have a corporate client that I just grabbed out of thin air. And I make that introduction,

and it cost me nothing. I mean, it cost me seconds of my time. Yeah, totally. And I think this is what you call social capital, right? Could you just define what that is? So social capital is essentially referral currency. So a lot of people will object to the whole networking and relationship development thing

and they'll say something like, oh, well, I don't have time to design free websites for people because I always say give without the expectation of getting anything in return. ABG is kind of what the name of that is. Instead of ABC always be closing, like what's in it for me? It's ABG always be giving or always be generous. What's in it for other people on my network? So from that perspective, I'm building referral currency

as much as possible. So the people who object and say, well, I'm building referral currency as much as possible. So the people who object and say, well, I'm a web designer. I can't just help people for free and design free websites. I'm not asking you to do that. If you're a graphic designer, you're a web designer. I'm not saying make free graphics for everybody who texts you and says, I got a friend that needs graphics. What I'm saying is connect people in your network with other people in your network.

That's what makes it scalable. That's what makes it scalable for you. If you have to build a free website for somebody, that might only be a Saturday afternoon. You only have so many of those to give to somebody for free. And then if 99 out of 100 people never help you back, your investment ratio is pretty, your ROI is bad. But if I'm introducing people

and I'm helping both of them mutually? But if I'm introducing people, and I'm helping both of them mutually, now I'm helping two people instead of just one, and I'm doing it in a way where I could do that a hundred times a month before I even make a dent in my calendar and my available time in my work day, I'm making dozens of introductions now each month, and it's just people saying, wow, Jordan, I owe you one.

And stuff shakes out of that, like you wouldn't believe speaking gigs, the sales thing that I just gave you was a real example. Somebody the other day said, Hey, I really appreciate you hooking this up. By the way, the company that you got me a job at is producing a reality TV show. I threw your name in the hat. Now I'm hosting a show potentially like that came out of nowhere, quote unquote, nowhere. I've had people where I've helped them figure out which neighborhood to live in in Los Angeles by introducing them to people that live in that neighborhood and then finding out that they now work at like Spotify so they can hook, you know, they got me a feature in Spotify. Like that stuff is real and it looks like I'm just getting lucky, but in some of that is luck, but the majority

of it is I happen to just roll the dice thousands of times a year by making introductions and getting a good impression from a lot of people. And those people are like, that Jordan guy is not bad. He got me this job. That Jordan guy is not bad. He introduced me to my wife. Like that is good referral currency. And it comes back and pays you back even if

the ROI is 99 times out of 100 not coming back that one time in a hundred where somebody does give you something is fine because the whole hundred times cost me nothing. Totally. I have a very similar strategy. I really think that you should never try to hoard your network. The minute that you're hoarding your network it's because you're insecure and you feel like you can be replaced. But in fact, it just only makes you stronger to introduce you to other people because you become more valuable to them. And then they feel like they owe you something for introducing you to this opportunity and they'll think about you the next time. You have a cool strategy called the double opt-in introduction.

I never heard of it before. I heard it from you. So would you mind sharing that? Sure. So the double opt in introduction. And by the way, before I dive down that rabbit hole, I will say that you're right. If you hoard your network at atrophies, so think of your network like a muscle that gets bigger with you. It's not like a pie that once it's eaten, it's gone. I see a lot of people that don't understand this and that's great, but there's a lot of people that don't. They're like, oh, I don't want to use that connection right understand this and that's great, but there's a lot of people that don't. They're like, ooh, I don't wanna use that connection right now. And it's like, well, okay, when did you meet the CEO of such and such?

Three years ago, do you honestly think that they remember you at all? They don't. You haven't reached out to them. You haven't kept in touch. And even if you have, you haven't fed them any deals. Like, introducing, you have to be somebody who's good enough to be introduced.

So, you're not just like, oh yeah, I know the CEO of Disney. Let me introduce every time they can hairy to Bob, Bob, I grew up like not a good idea. But if you're like, hey, Bob, you know, I wouldn't bug you, but this person's a superstar and they just their contract is ending at this radio station. Who's the person at ESPN that signs new talent? You should get a hold of this guy. He'll be like, wow, this Jordan guy's really looking out for me. You do that two or three times.

You've built referral currency. If I go, ooh, I don't want to bother Bob Eiger about this, I'm not going to help this other guy get a career at ESPN. I'm useless now. Look, what you semi, I'm quiet. So are the rest of the seven billion people on earth. They're not in his inbox, who cares? So you have to use your connections.

You make them stronger. Otherwise, you just have somebody's email address and you're just praying they remember you. people on earth are not in his inbox, who cares? So you have to use your connections. You make them stronger. Otherwise, you just have somebody's email address and you're just praying they remember you. That chance. So the double opt-in, what this is, this is where you ask permission from both parties to make an introduction. Let's say that you are a sports caster or something like that that and your contract is ending with iHeartRadio and you want to move to a Disney on station. I don't know, they might on that. I'm not sure. So let's say you want to move to that and you tell me like, hey, this is coming up. Can you introduce me to somebody over there? I get a hold of the right person who's in charge of that radio division for you. I don't just go, Hey, radio CEO, my friend, Halas, C seed here really wants a job. And then that guy's

like, okay, not the right person for this. I left six months ago. I'm retired. Nice to meet you. Sorry to waste your time. I look like an idiot. Or they're like, Halas emailed me 17 times. I don't really like her. I'm not going to deal with this. Thanks for making it making it so I have to now respond. I'm sure that's not sure everyone likes you, but like you don't want to throw the monkey on their back because they're just going to get annoyed every time they see you thinking like, great, now I've got to explain my way out of this. Or they say, yeah, we already know each other. In fact, she's sitting across the table from me right now working by, you know, like all of those make me look dumb, they don't help the other person and they don't help you. So what I should do is email and say, Hey, see, important CEO guy.

My friend, how are her contracts about to end? I'm not sure if you know her already. She's top notch talent. She really wants to be a sportscaster and do live radio announcing, are you looking for this? Who's the right person to get in touch with? Feel free to say no if now's not the right time. They come back and say, yeah, I would love to do that. The person that you're supposed to meet is Daniel. I'm going to go ahead and see see him here. Then I come back to you and I go, Hey, good news, holla. Daniel, see, see, see here is the right guy to talk to. He's interested in making it happen. Y'all can leave me out of the chain from here out. Glad I could help. Now, if they say no, which is everyone's first question, what if they say no, then I come back to you solo. And I say, Hey, Hala, I did reach out

on your behalf. Now is not the right time. They're not hiring anybody or they're not looking to expand in this department. I'll let you know if I have other ideas of people, but now is not the right time. That way the other person doesn't have to say no to you. That's an awkward position and they're going to get annoyed if I put them in that position. They can say no to me because we're buddies. Like nah, I've seen so and so's work. It's rubbish. It's not a good fit for the brand.

I don't have to then go back and go, hey, he hates you. Sorry. I can go back and say now is not the right time. And I don't have to say the right time is never because your work sucks. Like that's something that doesn't matter. But unless unless we're on a feedback, unless we're cruel like that, but we're probably not. So you don't want to throw the monkey on someone's back. You, you ask each party and then when you get yeses from both sides, then and only then do you

connect people that will save everyone headache and it signals professionalism. People will go, this Jordan guy does not waste my time. He gets it. Yeah. I think that's like super great advice. Hopefully everybody finds that valuable. From my research, we do a ton of research on Young and Profiting podcasts. I found out that you were actually a very socially anxious child. And so you didn't just like, you know, one day had all this confidence. And a fellow podcaster, who's my friend, Mark Metri, he wanted me to ask you what your top social anxiety and China's tips were. Oh, yeah.

I was a shy kid. And that's a whole can of worms. I would say if there's, if this is a teenager or somebody that's like pathologically shy or like going through growing pains or whatever, I would say go to therapy because you don't even know what the reasons behind that are. Look, if you're in middle school and you're shy, congratulations, like that's pretty normal. But if you're shy because of trauma abuse, you're an only child and you've never been good at making friends, like that's worth seeing a professional and figuring out what's going on there. But if it's just like, eh, I moved to a new town, join things like sports teams, join activities.

I would make a list of things that you want to learn, like Italian cooking. Let's say you're an adult because that's what we're talking to. You want to learn Italian cooking? You want to learn how to play lacrosse or whatever. You know, make a list of those things, find classes or leagues in your area and then just tick those off because let's say you want to learn Italian cooking. Great. I take an Italian cooking class. Do I meet someone there who shares that hobby? Yes, maybe.

If not, okay, I've learned Italian cooking. I didn't waste my time. What's a waste of time is like hanging out at some bar, trying to meet alcoholics or whatever that hang out there all the time. Are you making friends? Not really. Do you have a common hobby? Not really. You hate being there and they go there all the time to watch a game and you annoy them. Like that's not good. So make a list of skills you want to learn, go learn those skills, meet people in those specific activity groups. That's good for people who

move to a new town or something like that. Also sports leagues are great for that because it forces you to interact with people. You know, and it builds camaraderie with other people in a way that causes you to build real friendships based on those commonalities, not some sort of weird forced things. Like that's why speed dating is kind of a joke. Like, you can meet people you're attracted to that you don't hate right away, but let's be real. Like, people don't do it unless they're desperate. And the reason that they do it then is because it's like the last option they have.

It's far better to meet someone through your social circle because they're vetted and they have mutual friends, which means they probably have similar values, which means they probably have similar outlook on life. That's much better. So you want to screen for that. You don't want to like dating online, which everyone now does. Great. But it's obviously less of a win

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Go right now for 50% off your no risk two week trial at trinom.com-shap. That's trinom-n-o-m.com-shap for 50% off trinom.com-shap. Yeah, totally. I think that's a really good advice. I know that you are a confidence expert. And first impressions are really, really important. I actually did my first podcast episode like two years ago on first impressions. It was like basically like an audio book. I did so much research.

And after that episode, I realized that first impressions are probably one of the best life skills that you could learn how to do. Well, I heard that you have this drill that you do, a doorway drill that can help you build confidence and I was hoping you could share that with us. Sure, so if you're watching this on video,

I look like I'm hunched over and in a murder basement. So I mean, don't judge me based on that. But when you go through it, so most people will say, like, all right, my first impressions, no good. What do I say? What do I do? That is not really how first impressions work. A lot of people think their first impression is made when they open their mouth, not really the case. Your first impression is made non verbally. And we know that because it, well, let's, let's put it this way. Test it for yourself. Next time you go to the mall, look around you.

Are you getting first impressions from people that are not talking with you? Okay. I think, yeah, we are, right? Like you're walking down the street, you're walking through the mall, you're thinking tall, short, attractive, scary, punk, alt, whatever, hipster. Like you're getting first impressions. Your brain can't, even for people to think they're not judgey, your brain is literally hardwired to judge. It's a safety mechanism. It's kept you, you know, the human race alive. So I don't care like how woke you are. You're still doing that.

And your first impression is made nonverbal. You can prove that to yourself if you don't believe me from the example. What we want to do is create a positive, open, and friendly, confident first impression. And the way that we do that is by being upright, so stand up straight, shoulders back, you know, chest up, chin up, smile on your face. You don't have to exaggerate it because you'll look really silly. You'll look like a moron. But you have to do that and you have to remember to do that every time you walk into a room. Well, that's the trick, right? Like, great. I now have to remember to do this 24-7, totally unrealistic. I say anchor it to something that is a memory trigger, like a doorway.

So anchor it to a doorway. Now every time you enter a room, usually through a doorway, you'll be upright, positive, open, confident, friendly, whatever sort of positive adjective you want to throw in there. You'll have good posture, you'll have good nonverbal communication to the room that you're open, positive, confident, friendly, whatever you want. Now the trick is anchoring it to a door. You're gonna forget that like two seconds after you hear this because you go through doors all day.

So grab some Post-It notes and put them up at eye level. You don't have to write anything on them. Just get those little green ones that are always on clearance, because nobody buys them. Put them up at eye level in the doorway. Then when you walk through a door, you'll see that little Post-It note

and your brain will go, wait, what is that? It's called a pattern interrupt. It's like a he-cheesy hypnosis thing. It'll interrupt your autopilot thoughts. Like, oh, I got to go downstairs and make some macaroni and cheese. Like, you'll see that and you'll go, oh, right, that, I got a green post to know. What was that for? Rhy-rhy-rhy-rhy-rhy-r. Going through the door, open upright, positive, confident body language. You'll remember to reset your non-verbals as you go through that door. So put it up at your door in your room, your office, the bathroom you use, whatever. The beauty is you can throw it up at work and a blank post-it note is not going to attract

too much attention, right? You can leave it up. It'll be up there for three months until the gender finally says like, what the hell is this and takes it off. So you can do that. And the reason that this is important is not only do you have good, non-verbal first impression, but it's a self reinforcing set of skills because once people see you as open, positive,

confident, and friendly, they will treat you like that. You know, if you've got your nose buried in your phone and you're getting coffee, the breeze is going to be like, hey, can I help you? Knowing they don't want to bother you, you're texting. It's very important. You're a very important man, right? They won't want to bother you. But if you come in and you're beaming, smiling, looking, looking friendly and open,

engaging them, they're going to be engaged with you. And that will continue to train you how you are perceived by others. And what we know from science and psychology is that the way that others perceive us also informs our own behavior. So it's, it's positively reinforcing. If people treat us like we're open positive, confident and friendly, we will start to act more positive, open, confident,

and friendly, which will cause other people to again, be more of that way with us. And we will eventually be able to almost program the entire room to treat us better and to treat us as high status, so to speak, because those are high social status behaviors. So you can do that, and then you don't need Post-it notes, because you're realizing that, wow, I get treated pretty damn well

when I create a good first impression, which I'm now doing automatically, because every time I do it, I get a reward, a cognitive reward, and that people are good to me. You can train and retrain yourself to do that, and then you don't need Post-it notes anymore. That, by the way, that drill is in six- minute networking. So if that was all like, wait, what happens? Go to six minute networking and you can get it.

He's got so many great resources. I agree. It's so important to actually build the habit because then when you're in a high-stake situation, you're in a job interview, you're public speaking, you're not thinking about your body language. You're just doing it naturally because when people think about their body language, it tends to get really awkward. I definitely would agree to build the habit and make it more of a natural thing than something that you actually have to think about, but that's going to take practice and hard work. It's true.

If you start thinking about your body language because a lot of people go, that sounds like a lot of trouble. I'm just going to remember it when I go to this cheesy cocktail mixer. So they walk into the mixer and they're like, hello people, I'm here to be open and confident and friendly. And everyone's like, okay, this guy's a little weird, but whatever, and you start talking with people, and then you feel yourself slouching.

So you go, oh my gosh, I gotta stand up straight. I gotta have open and upright, positive, confident, nonverbal communication. And then you do that, you're proud of yourself, and then you go, oh crap, what are they talking about? I totally tuned out because I was trying to straighten up and smile and I was looking around and I'm clearly not present, oh crap, I just did it again.

I'm talking to myself and my internal dialogue is drowning out what this person is saying. And then pretty soon they're like, I have to go to the bathroom because you seem like a serial killer and I don't wanna talk to you anymore. So they run, not walk away from you. And you're like, oh, this Jordan Harbournjer crev doesn't even work. And the reason is because it has to be relegated to the level of a habit.

It has to be subconscious or you are going to look like a weird alien robot that has never seen a human before. Yeah. Because if you're not present and not paying attention, they're going to think that you're weird and you're awkward and they're not going to know why necessarily, but they're going to feel it and not want to be there anymore. I am going to be a little bit selfish. And let's move on to podcasting.

So you are like a podcasting guru. You were one of the top podcasters in the game. You've been doing it longer than most people. You're not like a celebrity who became a podcast or your podcast, who became a celebrity, which is kind of a rare thing. Celebrities and air quotes on that last part. I think you're a celebrity. You really are everybody.

Everybody I talked to you knew who you were. So I think you're a celebrity. I'm like you, I research my guess. I don't just like do it off the cuff. A lot of my other podcast, I have tons of podcaster friends because I'm a connector, I like to connect with people. And I study for my episodes. I study 10, 20 hours,

and I heard as I was researching you that you do the same. I listen to other interviews, I read books, blogs, anything that I can find social media posts. I really do my due diligence, and I have a team who helps me choose that I have multiple brains on the project.

So I'm wondering, like, is there anything that you do that you think that, like, I don't know about in terms of researching a guest? I bet there is. So I've got my little secrets, but I'll tell them to you. Yes, I read the book. I think a lot of people, when they read, they skip the dedications and they skip the appendix or whatever it is, not the appendix, the epilogue or whatever comes after that. You got to read the dedication.

And I know there's a good example of why this is important. A friend of mine, he told me to interview this infectious disease specialist, this is years ago now. And she was an African-American woman, super, super sharp. And he's like, yeah, she's really interesting, get her on your show. So I grabbed the book and I read the book. And she had said something in the dedication like, thanks to my parents who adopted me, I'm paraphrasing, who adopted me from Africa.

And now I've got the chance to like go back and help the entire continent, whatever, something like that. And I was like, oh, wow, this informs her entire reason for doing the work that she's doing. Like she was adopted out of this third world situation. Now she's a doctor. She wants to go back there and help improve the standard of living for all of these children in that continent. Well, my friend didn't read that. And when he heard my interview, he was like, dude, I had no idea she was adopted from Africa. And I was like, yeah, that's like literally

the entire reason why she got into this line of work. After the interview, she's like, yeah, nobody brings that up. And I was like, that's because they're not reading it. They skipped a chapter one, or they don't read the book. So of course, they haven't seen the dedication to your parents that explains why you do what you do. They literally don't do it. Since it's not on your website bio,

which is like where most people begin and end their prep, they just miss it. And I was like, you should consider putting it in your website bio because it's an amazing story and it informs what you do. She was like, yeah, I'll look into that, I'll do that someday, whatever. There's a lot of stuff like that.

Other things that I do other than reading the actual complete book and not trying to be all clever and hack the book. I will look on Amazon, look at the negative reviews, but look at most helpful because positive reviews, yeah, great, sort, sort by most helpful, no matter what, you'll get a good critique, a good review on good reads and Amazon. Good reads is where readers leave reviews of books, but on negative reviews, sort by most helpful because you won't get the one that's like, damage when it came in the mail, socks can't get refund.

Like, that's what you see in one star reviews for books on Amazon. But if you sort by most helpful, often you'll find something that's like, hey, I wanted to like this book, but as a fellow infectious disease specialist for the United Nations, here are the top 10 things

that I think are wrong with it. And that is gold because it's not in the book and that's the point of why the negative review from this super well credentialed person is actually accurate. Like, hey, this is not correct. Or, hey, there's political bias in here that you didn't even see because it's really insidious and this critique is written by somebody who's the other expert in the field of that that person is in. Another thing I will do is actually reach out to other experts in that field.

So if you're interviewing an infectious disease specialist, don't just be like, yeah, everything this person said is true. Go ahead and find somebody else that doesn't work at the same company or is in the same hospital as them and say, have you heard of this person? And if you're interviewing big names, they'll be like, yeah, that's like the OG so and so of our industry. And you go, are you a fan? If so, why, if not, why not? And sometimes it'll be like, well, you know, I don't know much about him, but I know my boss hates him. And I'm like, can you, would you mind asking why? And sometimes it's like,

yeah, they went to med school together and he stole his girlfriend. But usually it's not that. Usually it's like, you know, he totally jacked a bunch of public patents and now charges a bunch for what should be like medically freely available and isn't innovative at all. He's just the guy who's the best at getting publicity for his specific brand of medicine or his specific brand of like whatever you want to call it. And he's actually doing more harm than good because he sort of like rubbing all the science away from this really noble cause. And you get these awesome little critiques from people that you're not going to get if

you're just reading their stuff. Remember, if you want real information, if you want to get the truth, you can't have one source that's that person. That's ridiculous. A journalist would never do that but podcasters are journalists that'll be like yes, screw it. I'm just going to read your bio and take everything is gospel thanks for coming on the show. I think that's great advice. I'm definitely going to take into account a lot of that. So we're similar podcasters in that we do interviews and

I often interview people that I don't know much about their space and that's why I do all the research and try to be prepped so that I can say something smart when we're having the conversation and ask the right questions. Did you ever do like a class on like improv or anything like that to help you just be more present and know how to respond and keep the conversation going? Yeah, I did. I took a couple of improv courses, probably at UCB back in the day. And they were cool. I had a lot of fun. The problem with places like UCB, in my opinion, my super amateur opinion is that they're full of

real comedians that are actually funny. So during improv one and two, they don't care. It's a bunch of schmose. It's taught by people that know what they're doing. But once you start getting further than that, it's like, okay, here's what your first improv show is going to look like. And I'm like, hang on, not going to be a professional improv or like join the club of people that like hang out here every week and do shows. And that's okay. But you're kind of done at that point. Like they, there's no moving up from there for a lot of these improv places because that's kind of the funnel to get you into their like groups. So I didn't move up very far, especially in Hollywood because I don't.

I'm not going to be on the next like big sitcom. And you'll see people at those those improv theaters that are legit great. I highly recommend improv as a skill set, but you have to be careful of kind of what you expect from it, because if you go to a place that you think is the best, because it's groundlings and it has a great reputation, it will be great, but you are going to be out-gunned after like the second level, and then you might not be getting anything from it, because everyone else is like a professional. It's like going to karaoke in Hollywood. You ever do that, you go to karaoke in Hollywood

and everyone's like straight off the voice and is like a professional singer, except they can't pay their bills because singing doesn't pay the bills these days, but they like did backups for Christina Aguilera and you're like, I'm drunk and I want to sing journey and they're like getting outta here. Yeah.

I've been trying to find a good improv class, but I guess I'll have to keep looking. When you first started your podcast, like I said, it was back in 2008. You were kind of like the only game in town. There was like 800 podcasts. Now I just checked the stats yesterday. There's like 850,000 podcasts out there. So how would you stand out today as a podcaster?

So the good news is only about 300,000 of them are active. So you're only competing against 300,000 podcasts, not all 860,000 or whatever the actual numbers. That doesn't, that's called comfort for most people. The way that I stand out is I do, I'm not particularly talented as like a comedian host. Like my show is not comedy. Anybody with better connections can book better guests than me. So that's, but I work on my network. So that helps in terms of guest booking. I make sure that my show is really tightly produced. You know, I don't cough in my show and then leave it in there. I don't go, hang on, I got to go to the bathroom and then like leave the 30 second to a minute and a half depending on whether

or not you wash your hands, pause in the show. I don't do that. I edit that out. My producer does. And I also do a bunch of the aforementioned show preparation that really helps because a lot of people don't do that. That's what makes you a commodity. It's like, why should I listen to you?

I do 20 hours of prep for the interview, name one other person that does that. They're like, that's probably a lot. Okay. All right. You got me on that one. So I don't have to be the funniest. I don't have to be the most dynamic. I don't have to have a list celebrities on all the time. I can outwork most people in terms of the interview quality, then having just a basic level of broadcasting skill plus my work ethic

is enough to help there. If you're super funny, then lean on that. But most of us are never going to be the funniest. So we have to skill stack. I can be medium low funny or just low funny, but not super serious. I can be super, super high in terms of the amount of prep. I can have super, super high production, but not as high as like reply all that has musical transitions between each segment and like crunchy gravel sound effects when they're telling a story. I don't have to go there, but I can stack the level of funny, the level of production, the level of prep, the level of my guest, the level of my ability to market.

All of those things can be medium, but when stacked together, it's a pretty tall stack. It's called skill stacking. You're not gonna, you don't have to be the funniest. You don't have to be the best marketer. You don't have to be the best broadcaster. You don't have to have the best ability to get a guest to like cry on stage or on a mic.

But if you stack everything together, you are uniquely good. Well, maybe you are uniquely good with what results you have. And then you try to gradually improve each of those particular vectors or skills. So you work on your humor with improv. You work on your production by hiring the right people or learning it yourself.

You work on your network to get the right people or learning it yourself. You work on your network to get good guests. If you try to be like, I'm going to be the best at XYZ, you've got your work cut out for you because world class in any one area is really tough. But to be world class in a mixture of three to four areas is a lot easier because of the laws of pro sheer probability. You might not be the best basketball player because of certain skills of pro sheer probability. You might not be the best basketball player because of certain skills like one skill here. But if you're a good leader, Andrew

pretty good at free throws, Andrew pretty good at dribbling, Andrew pretty good at passing, Andrew reasonably fast. You're in the NBA, dude. You know, like you're good. But if you're just a great team captain, but you suck at everything else, well, we got a lot of those. If you're great at free throws, but you always slam the day in ball against your foot and it goes off bad amounts, you're not making it. You have to skill stack. That's what I do to stand out. And that's what literally everyone listening or watching should do to stand out at work, podcasts aside, stand out at work by skill stacking. Are you the smartest person in the office? No, but you show up on time. You stay later. You work really hard. Oh, and you've got a network. So you know how to bring in business. Oh,

and you set up the software solution so that this workflow is better. You know, and you speak German. Okay. Now you're valuable. You're no longer replaceable by the other guy who just like works an hour longer every day. Totally. We talk about skill stacking a lot on the show. I had a Scott Adams, who's a creator of Dilbert and he was like, I think he's the first one who coined skills stacking and then Dan Schwabal. Also, we were talking about skills stacking. It's such an interesting concept and it's so true because today it's so hard to be the best at something like that such like an unachievable thing to do. But if you put like a set of skills together in a unique way,

then you have like a unique offering that you can provide value to people. So I think that's like one of the biggest takeaways of my podcast like I've ever had period. Yeah, I like the skill stack in term. I think it has got Adams and he's right. Like I think his example is I'm not the funniest. I'm not the best cartoon artist. I'm not the best marketer. I'm not the best writer. but he's like, when I add my medium high of those skills together, I have the world's most successful syndicated cartoon ever. Exactly. So, we were just talking about how there's like only around 300,000 active podcasts.

Most people like end after like seven episodes. Why do you think that people lose steam when it comes to podcasting or why podcasts just fail in general? Aside from not prepping. Most people have no idea how much work it is. So they do this thing where they're like, oh, I'm on episode seven and I only have like 300 downloads per episode. How many downloads do you have for episode Jordan? Oh, okay. Oh, wait, I'm never going to get there. I'm done because people will start a show and I hear this all the time and it's not just

randos. There are celebrities who have their managers and agents sitting in a room with me and they're like, Jordan, we're really not worried about bringing traffic to this show because we've got so and so and his new movies coming out next week. So we're pretty sure we can drive traffic fast forward like three months. They've quit. And I go, Oh, what happened? And they go, Yeah. So he was only getting like 18,000 downloads per episode. And he was like, Look, man, I got a film Avengers. I'm out, you know, or like there are

Fox News commentators. So they're not going to sit around and do a show that pays them 600 bucks in episode. Like they're just not going to do it. And I'm like, I told you that you have to work hard and do this. And they're like, yeah, well, she tweeted it. That's like, well, nobody gives a crap about your stupid Twitter. Like nobody cares. Did she tweet it literally every single day? Did she engage with all of her fans there? Did she then put that on Instagram? Did she repurpose this? Did you buy $40,000 a year and add traffic and drive it to the show? Oh no, she tweeted it twice. Of course you failed. Of course you freaking failed. Podcasting is like the great equalizer. You can have Will Farrell who, some people love, some people don't. He did a show called Anchorman. They're not renewing

that. Why? Because it didn't do as well as it needed to do. And it might have gotten a ton of downloads, but it didn't get enough to satisfy the people making it and they couldn't afford to keep doing it there are a lot of and no no shade on will fairly at all i'm just giving it as an example there were plenty of people from major news networks that started podcasts that have zero interest in the audience is dead why where why isn't. Why? Why isn't the top podcast? Why isn't the top 10 Anderson Cooper? Where is the Oprah podcast? Oh, it's in the top 200, but it's not even in the top 100 most of the time. Why? It's Oprah. It's freaking Oprah. Well, yeah, people

are less interested in what she's doing on a podcast than they were on daytime TV in the 90s. Oh, well, you get other people where you're like, wait, the number one podcast is a comedian named Joe Rogan who talks about psychedelics and then like makes smoke rolls up a J. I don't get it. I get it. He's engaging with his fans. He's engaging in the topics that people want to hear. He's not coming on and taking something that they do on CNN literally every day that any broadcaster can do and being like, now you can download this. Like no thanks. The reason I'm downloading Joe Rogan or Jordan Harbinger or a halasaha is because I don't want to see what a buttoned up newscaster is going to read off a teleprompter

today because that crap is what my mom watches. You know, so, so that recipe doesn't work. And big media companies are dying. They are buying up shows like crazy because you can't just walk into podcasting and be a celebrity. Look at the biggest YouTube channels. There's a lot of vloggers, but there's a lot of celebrities. You know, there's a lot of like late night show clips and stuff. Look at social media accounts. What's a huge social media account?

Every celebrity has one. Yes, there are some influencers, but look at podcasting, the biggest podcast, none of them are celebrities, almost none. The top 200 has a handful of actual celebrities in it, period. And those are the most popular shows in the world. And you probably wouldn't even recognize those people if you saw them on the street, which is so cool. Podcasting is awesome. I'm so happy that I started this journey, honestly. So we're out of time. We probably have about another five minutes. A question that I ask everybody on the show is, what is your secret to profiting in life? And this doesn't have to be just about money.

Yeah, you know, what's my secret to profiting in life? Quote unquote is making sure that I prioritize. This sounds so cliche. Let me stop. I was gonna say prioritize what's really important to me, like spend time with my family. Nah, okay, that's true, but everyone says that, so I'm not gonna say that. Profiting in life, you know, I realize that over a certain

amount of income, science literally like actual data, shows that you're just not that much happier. Like, billionaires are really happy, but between like, and I'm not even exaggerating, between like one million and like 500 million, you have like this marginal increase in happiness that is basically almost too small to even measure. How much more work is it to get from like your $200,000 a year income to like your, to like $200 million? It's an enormous amount of life altering never see your kids work for most people,

for 99.9% of people. So why do that if you're not actually going to be any happier, right? So I basically said, okay, I've got income goals, my wife's on board with these. If we hit these numbers, we can retire at a certain point that's early enough to like, really spend just most of our time with our kids doing whatever we want. My business becomes a hobby. And I don't have to worry about the numbers. I don't have to have like a marketing

department, you know, I can really chill. I can do like one episode a week because now I'm making passive income off of interest of like a million dollars a year and I'm 50, right? So I don't wanna like miss my kids high school in college or miss my kids elementary and high school years because I'm grinding to make 300,000 instead of 250. And you have to get those numbers beforehand because if you don't set those

goals, what happens is you go, oh man, I'm making 350, 400,000. Here we come. I'm making 450. Here we come. And then pretty soon your kids are like, yeah, dad, my dad was really busy, but it was awesome because I had like three cars. I mean, you know, like what? And then you retire and you're like, I'm rich and nobody gives a crap, except for you. That is amazing, amazing guidance. It's so important to know your priorities, to know where you want to spend your time and lifetime is your most valuable asset. So you've got to spend it wisely. Where can our listeners go to find out more about you and everything that you do? So I'm on the Jordan Harbinger Show. It's a podcast. If you're listening to podcasts,

I do have you too, but JordanHarbinger.com slash YouTube. But I only put like one in 10 of my episodes up there. The Jordan Harbinger Show is also on Spotify or anywhere you listen to podcasts, Apple, of course, and all that jazz. And at JordanHarbinger.com. And I would love it if people would come and listen

to the show and find something that makes them smarter, because that's what my show is really about. Yeah, his show is awesome. I would highly recommend it. Jordan, I look up to you so much. Thank you so much for coming on Young & Profiting Podcast. It was such a great conversation. Thank you so much.

That was fun. Thanks for listening to Young & Profiting Podcast. Follow Yapp on Instagram at Young & Profiting and check us out at Young & Profiting.com. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to write us a review or comment on your favorite platform. Reviews are the number one way to thank us, especially if you write a review on Apple podcasts. And be sure to share this podcast with your friends and family and on social media.

Thanks again to Podcorn, our sponsors of the show. If you're a podcaster looking to monetize your podcast or brand looking to share your story, head over to podcorn.com to learn more. You can find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn just search for my name, Hala Taha. Big thanks to the app team, producer Shiv and Peter and the rest of the game. This is Hala, signing off. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? I'm Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben podcast.

My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness

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