Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - YAPLive: Command Your Brand Pilot Event on Clubhouse | Uncut Version

Episode Date: May 26, 2021

Join Rich Cardona, Hala, Dorie Clark, Chase Hughes, Mark Bowden, and more as they talk about what makes a good personal brand and why it's so important to have a presence in today's digital world!   This episode is sponsored by Castbox and Podbean!   Social Media:  Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Follow Hala on ClubHouse: @halataha Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode of YAP is sponsored in part by Shopify. Shopify simplifies selling online and in-person so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash profiting. You're listening to YAP, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halla Taha,

and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession, or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, And that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions.

If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of XFBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, had to gain influence, the arch of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button, because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast. Hey guys, it's Hala, and today's episode is a bit different, so I did want to preface it with some information so you guys get what's going on. And before I do that, I did want to talk to everybody

about the importance of collaboration over competition. As you guys know, or may not know, I've been really active on Clubhouse lately. So I host rooms in there almost every single day. I've acquired over 10,000 followers. My rooms are really engaged. People love them. They come each and every week to podcast office hours

to get inside on how to grow their podcast or they listen to my live interviews. And I've been getting really great traction. So Clubhouse came out with this creators first program where basically they invited all the different moderators on Clubhouse to fill out a form and basically pitch a show where Clubhouse would give them funding and promotion and kind of promote that show.

And I really wanted it. So I applied and I came up with all these different event ideas that I was going to do. But unfortunately, I got rejected for the program. Then I found out that one of my good friends, Rich Cardona, an up-and-coming podcaster, did get the creators first program and they selected his show, Commander Brand. Now, I always give without expecting anything in return and like I mentioned in the beginning,

I believe in collaboration over competition. And so even though Rich is somebody who's active on LinkedIn, even though he's a podcaster, I gave him information just 100% openly. I gave him information, just 100% openly. I gave him advice. I helped him grow his show. I gave him media buying advice. He would text me with questions.

He would call me with questions and I was always available to help him. And I was essentially a mentor for him as a friend for a while. And when I told him that I didn't get the creator's first program, his immediate reaction was, well, why don't you be my co-host? Let's do this together. Let's do command your brand together.

And so, without even being directly selected by Clubhouse, I ended up in the Clubhouse Creators first program. And it's all because of good karma. It's all because I give without expecting anything in return. And for me, that was just a really special moment, the fact that I really wanted Clubhouse Creators first, and I was rejected, and then somehow I ended up in the program because of all the good deeds that I've done.

And because I always give without any expectation of anything in return, especially to podcasters and up-and-coming podcasters. So I just felt like that was really cool, and an great karma. Like it just represented good karma to me. And I wanted to share that story before we got started. And so we recorded this pilot episode of Commander Brand on Clubhouse. And about 3,500 people came out. It was a great event. We had some of the most favorite yap guests that we've ever had on the show, Dory Clark from episode one, we had Chase Hughes from episode eight, Mark Bowden,

who's gonna be coming on this summer and also joined us for Yap Live panel called Hacking Human Behavior. And unfortunately, because this was a live event, half the recording was lost. And what happened was, I was recording on my end and then Matt, my audio engineer, was recording on his end, Clubdeck my audio engineer, was recording on his end, club deck,

a new app that just released to record club house crashed. And then for me, my phone almost died. And I was thinking, okay, I'd rather lose a recording than lose the contest. And so I had to unplug my phone and plug it into the wall, like into the audio jack and make sure that I wasn't going to get thrown out of the room because my phone died.

And unfortunately we lost half the episode long story short. So we have the first half and the last seven minutes we've stitched it together to give you guys a preview of what happened that day. I'm literally kicking myself in the butt because it was such amazing content. Like the whole time we were like, oh my god, this content is fire, this content is fire, we're gonna win. And so for the 2500 or so people, probably closer to 3500 people who got to listen in that day, you guys are really lucky because half of that recording is gone and lost forever. So I'm kicking myself in the butt, but the show must go on. And speaking of that, I hope you guys enjoy the show. All right, I want to take the opportunity for Hollin and I to kind of give you our take

on personal branding. And the reason I want to do this is because you're probably going to see how it varies greatly from person to person and from audience member to audience member and why it's not something you could just kind of necessarily nail down, it's very malleable and it's important to understand that. So my take, for example, is that your personal brand is the key to your success. And when we think of success, we think of criteria that people may have put before us. You'd think that emulates success, whether it's a car or a house or financial games or working as little as possible and spending as much time

with your family as possible. I mean, it can take so many different avenues. However, the success actually comes to what you feel is your success. How are you able to own your life in a very specific way? How are you able to come across where you're able to wake up on a daily basis and, you know, look into proverbial mirror and be like, I am the best version of myself that I can be. And it has nothing to do with some of the outside influences that may exist or some of the influences that, partake in some of your decision making and how you approach your day and the way that you live your life. So for me, personal branding is the key to your success,

your individual success. And I believe once you have been able to cultivate that level of self-awareness, I believe that's when things really start to change and I'm telling you because that's what happened to me just a few years ago and everything, nothing will ever be the same for that. And that's kind of my definition, it's not scientific, it's not behavioral, it's not academic by any means,

but that's my take and I wanted to get how it's taken, then we'll get into a little bit more. Yeah, 100%, I think that was a great perspective, Rich. And I just want to give everybody a history lesson because I don't think a lot of people realize that personal branding is like a new phrase. This was just coined back in 1997, which really wasn't that long ago.

It was coined by a man, his name is Tom Peters. And Peters taught us that no matter what industry we work in or where we live, we're all CEOs of our own personal brand. And that means we must market ourselves just as vigorously as any product or service. So for me, I always thought of a personal brand as basically being the CEO of your own personal branding company. And to me, it can be anything. It can be your name, your tone of voice, your reputation, the clothes you wear, the symbols or emojis that you use most often. I think that really encompasses your personal brand. And it's whatever makes you unique, the thing that makes

you stand out. It makes it so that no matter how many other people or companies try to copy your ideas, you are always valuable, you are always unique. So I think that personal branding in a nutshell is the practice of marketing people and their careers as a brand. So that's how I would define it. Awesome. So this is what we want you all to expect from this conversation. We're going to get the introductions here in a second.

But we hope that you have opportunity number one to have a different perspective than some of the things that you hear on social media. These are people who are very deeply embedded in different areas of behavior or psychology or marketing and business that will probably help you look at some of the advantages that can come from having a personal brand, not just a feeling.

The second thing I wanted to mention is that this is obviously an opportunity for you to submit your questions. If you go to our bios, I'll actually hold that, but we will be taking questions and we wanna make sure you have an opportunity to get your specific questions up here

and answered by some of the experts. So that is what we hope to expect. We are gonna have some give away that we're gonna talk about and we are gonna try and make sure you are participating as frequently as possible. But we want to get to the guests because they are on limited time, but they are very special in their unique ways. And how if you want to go ahead with that? Sure.

So I want to introduce our guests. We're going to have three guests today, two of them are here now. So we have Dory Clark. She is the author of Entrepreneurial You, reinventing you and stand out. She's also been named one of the top 50 business thinkers in the world by thinkers 50. And she was recognized as the number one communication coach in the world by Marshall Goldsmith, who came on my podcast and that's amazing. And then Chase Hughes.

So Chase Hughes has also been on Young and Profiting Podcast and he is the founder of Applied Behavior Research. He served in the US military for 20 years. And over that time, he became a behavior science expert. And he's known for being a renowned human behavior expert and he's the author of the ellipsis manual. So welcome both Chase and Dory to the stage. So glad to be here. Yep, so mine. Thanks for having us on guys and Dory. I'm a huge fan. Glad to be in here with you.

Thank you, Chase. I'm so glad to be here with such a talented prop of folks. This is great, and I can't wait to hear what's on your mind. So this is how I'd like to kind of get the audience engaged in the beginning. and actually the first questions I'll go to Dorian Chase, but the audience is going to answer them as well. So we'll take handraising right now. And what we're going to do is we would like you to come up, raise your hand if you want to come up on stage, if you're a mod, please up, people up. We would like to invite people up to tell us what they believe, what their personal brand means to them them or what their personal brand is in 10 seconds or less. So we're going to get some handraises up here and we're going to bring

some people on. But we're going to start with the experts just to see what they got. And Dory, I mean, I know your personal brand really well, I think, but I'd love to hear what your personal brand is to you in about 10 seconds or less if you're able to do that. to you in about 10 seconds or less if you're able to do this. Oh, talking about putting me on the spot, right? All right. What I like to think it is is maybe a combination of smart and friendly. What I mean by that, just the parset, is I try really hard to make sure that the information that I share is useful.

It's actionable. But I think oftentimes people can be a little abstruse about it. And people, frankly, get weird about the topic of personal branding. There's a lot of baggage that people have when it comes to the way that they receive the term. And so I try to really over index on making things accessible

and also just cheering people on because this is kind of a journey. So those are the couple of things that I try to lead with. Awesome. Chase, how about you? Yeah, I definitely agree with Dory. Everything I've done, I've tried to make it quite professional, elegant and effective to the point of being dangerous, to the point where people can use it for good as well as anything else.

And I teach behavior science, so a lot of what we do is really muddled in a lot of popsychology and stuff people see on LinkedIn. There's so much crap out there from people who are sharing misinformation. It's really challenging, I think, for a lot of business owners, not just me that are trying to stand out

and make sure that we're recognized as experts. Got it. Caroline, how about you? Great question, you guys. So for me, personal branding means what everyone sees around like what you put forward. And my personal brand is just to be your new best friend. Like if you need help with anything,

I'm here to be helpful and Caroline does. E, that, um, let's see, it's E, right? Yes, E, how about you? Hi there. Dory, I can't believe I'm in the same stage as you. It's amazing. I think personal branding for me is being genuine and being there for people when they need you, but at the same time protecting yourself and making sure you don't overstretch, so then you can't be there for nobody else. Hopefully that makes sense. Absolutely. Chrissy, we'll go to you and then Assad and Ariel

and then we'll wrap up so we get into some questions. But thank you. That's a really good answer so far. Hi, thank you. So for me, I think personal branding is, what everyone else thinks that you do or what you represent your values, your integrity when you aren't around. So if you've established your personal brand well, everyone can speak about you for you and you don't have to be there. I'm done speaking. And hi, Dory.

Hey, Chris, you good to have you here? So, what do you got for us? Hi, all for me, personal branding is all about being that a value addition and being different with from the others in the same market. So being different is for me the personal branding aspect of my work. Thank you. All right, and Ariel, I think you're pretty big on personal branding. I'd love to hear your take. Yes, sir. So 10 seconds is hard for me. And Krisky kind of said it, but for me it revolves around how I make other people feel, how I support those around me, and what people are saying when I'm not in the room. And I know that to be very positive. So great. So we're going to get to a couple of questions, and how did you want, I know you

had, have had Chase on the podcast, and you could adore him, had Dory as well, but I think you had a couple of questions for Chase lined up, and I'm really interested in hearing him since I didn't get to look at him ahead of time. So yes, I do have questions for Chase and my question is about how we look because when it comes to personal branding, looks matter, you know, clothes matters, hygiene matters, and actually this has been scientifically proven. So Chase, I've had you on the podcast a bunch of times. You are a wealth of information. And I know that anything I ask you will not stump you,

which is the best. And so I know that there's this Texas crosswalk study. And it basically showcases why wearing a suit makes you more likely to get people to follow you than wearing jeans. And so I think this is a great way to open up the conversation in terms of personal branding. And I would love for you to give us that case study. Yeah. And I thought you brought

that up. That study, they took a guide, just like an average dude. And he was in blue jeans and t-shirt. And he would basically walk across the crosswalk when it said don't cross. There's obviously no cars or anything coming. But he would kind of just break the crosswalk signal. And you know, one or two people would follow him. They've repeated this hundreds of times. Then they would go up and put him in a really crisp looking business suit and fix his hair a little bit. And he would do the exact same behavior. He'd jump across the crosswalk, start walking when it said don't cross. And the amount of people that would follow him range between an increase, 68% and 80% increase in the number of people who follow him. That was just based on the appearance. And he resembles in Western cultures what

we perceive to be an authority figure or somebody of higher status. It's super interesting. And so in general, why is obedience? Because this whole study really talks about obedience, right? Why is obedience something that we need to consider when it comes to personal branding? And so Chase, I'll let you answer that. And then Dory would love to hear your thoughts in terms of what looks close. Like our outward appearance have to do with personal branding and your opinion on that as well. So let's go to chase and then Dory.

Yeah, and really quick before I open that, the word branding came from branding cattle. So actually branding a shape or an icon into the rump of a cow basically. And if the cow ever got lost, it could be returned. If your brand was very recognizable and widely known, your chances of getting a cow back were very good. And that's where we talk about branding here. And when it comes down to the authority part of everything, if you're looking at any persuasion that's good, it works because our ancestors needed to survive. Authority

works because our ancestors had to obey a tribal leader in order to survive, or they get kicked out from a tribe. So all good persuasion works and all good branding works because it triggers things that are rooted in our ancestral evolution and how we survived as a species long ago. And tribe is so important. And the more recognizable you are, the more closely people are going to be able to relate to you. And that's where they have that repeating concept where things are recognizable, just like a cattle brand, where things are recognizable.

We know we have a positive expectations because the human brain is an expectation manufacturing device. We could not take two steps in a row without the ability to calculate. The probability something's going to happen next. So having a good brand creates expectancy. I'll leave it at that. I love that analogy. Thank you so much, Chase. I was so good. Dory, what is your thoughts in terms of the way that we look in our outward appearance related to personal branding? When it comes to personal brand and appearance,

one story stands out in my mind. Years ago, I used to date this woman who was an artist. And she was represented by a top gallery in New York. And she said that her gallery, the woman that owned the gallery that represented her, used to have a mantra. And the mantra was make it look expensive. And it stayed with me because it was just so different and so distinctive. It's not necessarily how most of us think, but this woman who was massively successful recognized

that especially for something subjective like art. I mean, the same piece of art, I could pay $200,000 for it, or it might be on sale a good well. What gives it meaning is the context, what gives it meaning is the story that gets wrapped around it. And she realized that if she was going to be able to successfully sell high-end pieces to collectors, it had to quote unquote look expensive. And that's everything from the quality of the brushstrokes or the paint, how much time and care is put into it.

And it also extended, frankly, to the lives of the artists, the artists, even though most of them were kind of not that wealthy, were expected to dress up, were expected to be wearing high fashion at showcases because they needed to present a certain type of persona to the buyers. So the same thing honestly is true for many of us. Art might be especially subjective, but the truth is consulting services are too. What makes a consultant worth $50 an hour versus $500 an hour versus, sorry, I don't charge by the hour, you just have to pay me $150,000 a lot of that is subjective as well and so thinking through these questions of appearance and

It could be how we dress but it's also things like our website. What does that look like our business cards? These things matter in terms of client perception and our plan and therefore the income we can generate. Yeah, Dorian, I'm gonna stay on you. I want to ask kind of a follow on from what Chase was talking about in terms of you know the persuasion and how persuasion and branding works like obviously people want a business case for these types of things like when it comes to personal branding you know, especially with someone like Hollen Eyre who in that space and we are trying to help executives and CEOs date the absolutely want the business case. And if we're going off with Chase's talking about, you know, and that persuasion works, like what are we trying to persuade people to think and how

does that actually lead to a business outcome? So when it comes to outcomes, one of the most important principles in any of this, who are thinking about behavioral psychology, is loss aversion. People are much more freaked out about what they might lose as compared to what they might gain. Now they get excited, of course, about what they might gain. That's why everybody's been so hopped up about cryptocurrency in the past six months, but although who knows, it seems like the tide's been turning the last few days. But nonetheless, at an evolutionary

level, loss of version really takes precedence. And so in many ways, one of the ways that we can leverage this is to create a brand, to create a reputation such that the person who is making the purchase feels safe. There is a famous saying from 30 years ago in business, which is nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. And that's not like a massive ringing endorsement of IBM. It doesn't even say IBM is the best, but what it does say is that IBM was the safe choice.

And if I'm the middle manager, and I'm trying to fill out a purchase order, and I say, hmm, do I wanna get this IBM PC, or do I wanna get this kind of random thing that's cheaper, but I've never heard of them, always go with IBM, because you are not gonna get fired. And that is top of mind. Who cares about saving your company a little bit of money

when the penalty might be that you lose your job? Ultimately, if we can leverage the power of branding to really put forward, and of course, clearly this has to be true. This is not a smoke and mirrors thing. But what we want to understand is we have to be conveying the message to people through our brand. We are the safe choice. You know, who cares? If you're paying a little bit more because this will not fail. This will not go wrong.

You will get the result that you want. And what is your guarantee of that? Well, it's my brand because I am known for this. I have a reputation. There's safety in that reputation. And so you can breathe a little bit easier. You can relax. And the extra money is worth it to them for that. Go ahead, Olive. That was amazing, go ahead.

Thank you. That was like my drop right there. So while we're sticking on this topic of why obedience kind of matters, how we can persuade people, trust, all of these kind of things. I was talking to Chase earlier before this call and we were just kind of talking about this conversation. And he told me something that really stood out to me. He said, the first four words of culture is cult. And I was like, whoa, like that's like, you know, my brain

exploded right there because when it comes to personal branding, it's all about starting a movement. Like I think of young and profiting my podcast and, you know, all the young and profitors we have out there and the community we've built around that. It's all about starting a movement, starting a culture around your brand. And so, Chase was telling me that permission has a lot to do with this and that permission is a start of any persuasive conversation. And when you're trying to build a personal brand, one of the reasons why is you're trying to get people to trust you to buy your product or service. And so permission is at the start of this. And so Chase, I would love for you to break that down for us.

Yeah, and I think this goes exactly along the lines of what Dory was talking about just now, that if I am supremely confident, and I just want to say one thing before I get into this, that if you're projecting a certain image or brand who you are off camera, who you're being when nobody's looking dramatically effects how your brand comes across, and people don't have to be a body language expert, they're just going to get a gut feeling that says something's not right or something's off about this and I don't get a good feeling about it. So who you are off camera has got to still be your brand.

So if you can't be your brand off camera, then you may want to reconsider what you are while you're on camera. And I would say that every persuasive conversation starts with permission. And if people struggle with confidence, if people struggle with self confidence, that's typically a struggle with internal permission. It's a feeling like, I don't have permission to behave a certain way because I haven't seen evidence that I can do it yet. The brain is constantly searching for evidence to allow you to behave a certain way.

But if you're struggling to get permission, no one's coming to save you. No one's going to show up, tap you on the shoulder and give you a little permission slip to be confident and to just let go. And just as we're talking about confidence here, if we can all describe the feeling of fear or insecurity, but it's hard to describe the feeling of confidence. And I think most people who are very confident would might describe it as safety. It's kind of, I'm completely safe. Nothing bad is really going to happen.

I'm pretty certain that positive outcomes are coming here. So it starts with permission. And if your confidence is real, it won't make other people feel small. Real confidence should be absolutely contagious. Real confidence is contagious. So by giving another person confidence, you're making other people confident and giving them permission to act in another way. So it starts with permission in you and it ends with permission in the other person.

I want to quick follow on to that, Hala. So, Dory, I just want to make sure the room, because I don't think anyone might have misconstrued this, but there is a possibility. When you were talking about the IBM analogy, so to speak, and we're talking about being the safe, but that doesn't mean that your personal brand has to be safe either, right? You're talking about performance and how you deliver outcomes, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to be expressive with your personal brand to an extent and kind of what Chase was saying. If there is a delta between who you are when you are on

your website, when you're on social media, and then when we meet, that's very off-putting. So I just want to just make sure we get clarification on that. You're not saying to be safe, but being reliable is safe. To have that right? Yeah, that's a great clarification, Rich. I mean, actually having personal brand

or those three of choice is not terribly interesting, and probably not terribly motivational to anybody. Ultimately, what makes you the safe choice is that people understand that whatever they're paying, and it could in fact be a lot of money, ideally, in fact, it's a lot of money, but whatever they're paying, they feel safe in that choice because they know they're getting it. They know they're going to get it because your brand has backstopped the promises that you make. I think that's key point. Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea but you don't know how to move

forward with it? Going into debt for a four-year degree isn't the only path to success. Instead, learn everything you need to know about running a business for free by listening to the Millionaire University podcast. The Millionaire University podcast is a show that's changing the game for aspiring entrepreneurs. Hosted by Justin and Tara Williams, it's the ultimate resource for those who want to run a successful business and graduate rich, not broke. Justin and Tara started from Square One just like you and me. They faced lows and dug themselves out of huge debt. Now they're financially free and they're sharing their hard-earned lessons with all of us. That's right, millionaire university will teach you everything you need to know about starting and growing a successful business.

No degrees required. In each episode you'll gain invaluable insights from seasoned entrepreneurs and mentors who truly understand what it takes to succeed. From topics like how to start a software business without creating your own software, to more broad discussions such as eight businesses you can start tomorrow to make 10K plus a month, this podcast has it all. So don't wait, now is the time to turn your business idea into a reality by listening to the Millionaire University podcast.

New episodes drop Mondays and Thursdays. Find the Millionaire University podcast on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Your dog is an important part of your family. Don't settle when it comes to their health. Make the switch to fresh food made with real ingredients that are backed by science with nom nom nom delivers fresh dog food that is personalized to your dog's individual needs. Each portion is tailored to ensure your dog gets the nutrition they need, so you can watch them thrive. Nom-nom's ingredients are cooked individually and then mixed together,

because science tells us that every protein, carb, and veggie has different cooking times and methods. This packs in all the vitamins and minerals your dog needs, so they truly get the most out of every single bite. And Nom Nom is completely free of additives, fillers, and mystery ingredients that contribute to bloating and low energy. Your dog deserves only the best, and Nom Nom delivers just that. Their nutrient-packed recipes are crafted by board-certified veterinary nutritionists, made fresh and shipped to your door. Absolutely free. Nom-nom meals

started just $2.40 and every meal is cooked in company owned kitchens right here in the US and they've already delivered over 40 million meals, inspiring clean bowls and wagging tails everywhere. Ever since I started feeding my dog Nom-nom, he's been so much more energetic and he's getting older, he's a senior dog, but now we've been going on longer walks and he's much more playful. He used to be pretty sluggish and sleeping all the time, but I've definitely noticed a major improvement since I started feeding him Nom Nom. And the best part, they offer a money back guarantee. If your dog's tail isn't wagging within 30 days, they'll refund your first order. No fillers, no nonsense, just nom nom.

Go right now for 50% off your no-risk two-week trial at trinom.com-shap. That's trinom.nom.com-shap for 50% off trinom.com-shap. Hear that sound, young and profitors? You should know that sound by now, but in case you don't, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that's revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you sell edgy t-shirts or offer an educational course like me, Shopify simplifies selling online and in person so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Shopify is packed with

industry-leading tools that are ready to ignite your growth, giving you complete control over your business and brand without having to learn any new skills in design or code, and Shopify grows with you no matter how big your business gets. Thanks to an endless list of integrations and third party apps, anything you can think of from on-demand printing to accounting to chatbots, Shopify has everything you need to revolutionize your business. If you're a regular listener, you probably know that I use Shopify to sell my LinkedIn secrets masterclass. Setting up my Shopify store just took me a few days. I didn't have to worry about my website and how I was going to collect payments and how

I was going to trigger abandoned cart emails and all these things that Shopify does for me was just a click of a button, even setting up my chat bot was just a click of a button. It was so easy to do. Like I said, I just took a couple of days, and so it just allowed me to focus on my actual product and making sure my LinkedIn masterclass was the best it could be,

and I was able to focus on my marketing. So Shopify really, really helped me make sure that my masterclass was going to be a success right off the bat. It enabled focus and focus is everything when it comes to entrepreneurship. With Shopify single dashboard, I can manage my orders and my payments from anywhere in the world. And like I said, it's one of my favorite things to do every day is check my Shopify dashboard. It is a rush of dopamine to see all those blinking lights around the world showing me where everybody is logging on on the site. I love it. I highly recommend it. Shopify is a platform that I use every

single day and it can take your business to the next level. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopfly.com such profiting. Again, go to shopfly.com such profiting all lowercase to take your business to the next level today. Again, that shopfly.com such profiting shopfly.com such profiting all lowercase. This is possibility powered by shopify. Okay, guys, you are listening to command your brand, no fluff with personal brand experts. We have Dory Clark on the stage. Chase Hughes, we also have Mark Bowden, who's going to be joining us in a couple of minutes.

And we are having a great conversation. Right now, you guys are tuning into a guided interview. We're going to have open Q&A in a bit. So with that, I'm going to kick it over to Rich to continue the guided interview. Yeah, and this will go to either a case or a door, but a lot of people misconstrued personal branding as having to be personal.

And what I mean by personal is, I don't want to put family stuff out on the internet or, you know, I don't really want to put that, I got promoted or maybe that I'm going through a tough time. You know, why do people, the people who misunderstand it as being supremely personal, how can they overcome that and kind of go a different direction and maybe apply lessons that they potentially learned or what are some avenues they can explore rather than thinking it has to be a little bit inwards?

So one thing to follow up exactly agree on what Dory was talking about safety and the feeling of safety. There's a lot of entrepreneurs in this group. And there's a lot of people that are just starting out here. A lot of safety, what we rely on is reputation. We know the Coca-Cola logo. We know when we go to Taco Bell. It's going to taste the same, whether we're in New Jersey or Los Angeles, it's going

to taste the same. So reputation plays a major role or Los Angeles, it's going to taste the same. So reputation plays a major role. And if you're just starting out, I remember I just started out, nobody knew who I was, and I thought there's no way I can't just manufacture a reputation that people can trust. And some of that trust that Dory was talking about, I started my business, and I offered a 300% money back guarantee when I started out. And that was the way that I was able to just manufacture that feeling of safety. Like, if you don't win big, then you're still going to win big.

But I think on the personal side of this, we tend to think of personal in the wrong definition. So we think of personal like, oh, that's too too personal that's kind of inward into my life But the word person just means about a person a personal and Then when we talk about personal branding It's not digging into your life and it's I think it's about a person So it's it's selling you and the third aspect of this is if branding really hits a person. So Apple is not a human being. So we look at an iPhone, we see all these Apple commercials, but they still have a cult like following. There's people who get Windows computers and stick Apple

stickers on them. So they have this happen because their branding is personal. So it's not personal branding. It's branding that is personal. And I would say absolutely does not have to include anything about your personal life or your family. It has to include you and your story and convey that feeling of safety. I'd love to hear what Dory thinks. Yeah, thank you, Shay, so I think that's terrific.

I would add to that, that we can make decisions about in what way we want to be personal as well. There's a guy that I know named Michael Ferdick who is the founder of the website Reputation.com which does a lot of online reputation repair work. And interestingly, one of the things that he talks about is the fact that he does not like to talk about, you know, his family or things that are sort of intensely personal, but he realized that he needed to give people some way to connect with him. Because if all your issuing sounds like a press release, it's a little hard for people to relate. They begin to feel disconnected. They wonder, who is this guy?

Is this a robot? But he felt like he didn't want to be exposing his children or something in different ways. So he picked something else. He was interested or he is interested in fiction writing. What he shares online, it's not baby pictures or things like that. He shares comments and thoughts about things he's read and about things that he's written. And he puts that out and it gives people a different way to get to know him. He feels like they're getting to know him as a person, but he's drawn boundaries around it.

And I thought that was a kind of creative solution. Ultimately, it's just a way of enabling people to have a relationship. I remember I gave a talk at Georgetown a few years ago, and there was a woman in the executive ed program, and she raised her hand, and she was one of the people that was a little nervous about social media, she was a little nervous about her self-randing in general. But she said, I'm not quite sure how to do it, but I know I need to do something because my employees told me, they feel like they don't know me.

And, you know, if you just think about it for a minute, of course, that's a problem. If your employees feel like, you know, who is this person, who is this cipher that's giving us orders, that's not a great feeling if you are, if you're on the receiving end of it, you want to be able to know and relate to people as people. And so whatever the modality that you choose,

whatever the social network or whatever the topic, I think we do need to find a way to make ourselves known to others. Love that, Dory. Yeah, I think these are all like such incredible points you guys are making. So I see that A line here on stage has an incredible question that I think is very relevant. So I'd love to hear, you know, your question to the panel, A line, take it away. Thank you so much, Hayla, Rich, Dory, Chase, I'm the lean. Sorry, I have to quickly correct that. I love the talk so far. Really happy to also tune in to this creator first program.

Yeah, a big question that is always boggling my mind is what sort of changes are you as experts observing in regards to personal branding, the brew, the acts of generation Z, and also maybe within Generation Z. That will be super interesting to get your take on it because there is a big appeal about Generation Z in general. So I'd love to get a point on it. Thank you so much. I'm a Dean and I'm complete. So I think one of the big changes I've seen is that CEOs don't look like CEOs used to. And we're seeing guys like Gary Vee, we're seeing guys that are out there in hoodies and

sweatpants. And if you scroll through Instagram, maybe it's just targeted at me. But it's like we're seeing stretchy pajamas, but they're made into business suits. So we're seeing this massive shift into more casual tone, more casual appearance. And it's starting to get like the business, the idea of a business man or a business person, like the 70s, 80s and 90s, is starting to almost become a cliche.

And it's almost triggering disbelief or uncertainty or almost mistrust around people. And I think this is an interesting shift to see. Dory, I'd love to hear what you think about this. Yeah, thank you, Chase. So I think it really is an interesting question. When it comes to Generations E or Generations E, one of the more salient things that I've been fascinated by actually, you might say that this is sort of a demographic subset, but it strikes me as kind of evocative of an overall trait, is the massively exploding percentage that are identifying as LGBTQ or non-binary. I mean, as someone who's, I like to think like not that old,

I'm 42, you look at that and you're like, oh my God. Like when I was coming out and I was a teenager, it was like this crazy fraught, like after school special thing. And now you've literally got over 10% of people just saying, yeah, well, I don't even have a gender. It's like, what? It's very surprising, very rapid. And I think that in many ways, for the entirety of the generation,

it sort of speaks to a kind of, don't define me sort of ethos. I think that overall the idea of people being one type of thing, or you're calling me one type of thing, seems to be a bit anathema and that is an interesting trend as far as I see it I think the ideology kind of bleeds over into a lot of places. I mean of course you could say there's sort of the general like teenage defiance of like don't you tell me what to do but but overall it leads to a kind of blurred boundaries and willingness to sort of be iterative or improvisational, I guess, in some way, that I think is quite interesting and interesting

phenomenon. So that's one piece of it. I'll just also add as one post script, and these are interesting things to track. But a good friend of mine, a woman named Erica Duwan, recently went viral, went inadvertently viral last week because she wrote a piece on medium. And it was talking about generational issues, and specifically she was talking about millennials, who now of course millennials are not the young thing anymore. And she coined this phrase, geriatric millennials, meaning the oldest millennials,

and people just kind of lit up and went insane that they were like, don't you call me geriatric as a millennial. So every generation, you know, we have the sort of peaks and valleys, but I think, I think also in the end, part of it really is life circumstance that, you know, we've spent a good 15 years with everybody being obsessed about millennials. And the truth is, now millennials in many ways

are just sort of settling into regular life. They're having kids like everybody else. They're kind of moving to the suburbs like everyone else, aided by the pandemic. So life stage just takes care of some of these issues. But I am really, really fascinated by Gen Z and its relationship to sexuality and gender. This episode of YAP is sponsored by Castbox, a free podcast app for iOS and Android users.

Like many people, I get frustrated with native podcasts apps like Apple Podcast and Google Play. I'm always on the hunt for something better. Caspux is a solution with the right balance of clean, attractive design, easy usability, and great features. And I know a lot of my app listeners agree, because we have over 100,000 listeners subscribed on there.

When it comes to podcast apps, I'd like you easy to use interface and most importantly, great searching capabilities that allow me to easily find the podcasts I'm looking for. Castbox allows you to personalize your listening experience. For example, you can create an organized playlist without having to download the episodes, and you can categorize your subscribed podcasts and mark your favorite episodes. Castbox really has it all, and the best part is no ads.

Other free podcast apps out there are notorious for their pop-up ads, and that can really ruin the experience. It's no wonder Cast Box is the third largest podcast player behind Apple and Spotify. Everyone is catching on to this, especially Android users. Cast Box Listen free, download free. What are you waiting for? Download Cast Box today, and don't forget to subscribe to Young Improving Podcasts and leave us a comment while you're there.

This episode of Gap is sponsored by Podbean Advertising Marketplace. Podcast advertising is one of the most cost-effective ways to advertise your product or your service. Just like you're hearing this ad right now, thousands of people could be hearing your ad. For much less than radio or other media, You can reach local listeners with podcast advertising. Podcast awareness and listening is on the rise and it's driven by an explosion in new podcast programming, the pandemic, and consumer adoption of smart speakers. In fact, according to Edison Research, podcast listeners have grown by 29.5% since 2018. And chartable reports that podcast listeners tend to have significantly higher household

incomes in the US average, and they tend to be significantly more educated than the US average. This is great news because you can run your own ads on podcasts easily for an affordable price with pod being advertising marketplace. And the best part is these ads are super targeted. You can choose your location, city, state, or country, and also target by customer interests. Get into the ears of your perfect customer without blowing your budget with Podbean advertising marketplace. Go to podbean.com slash hala. That's P-O-D-B-E-A-N dot com slash H-A-L-A podbean dot com slash

hala to boost your business with podcast advertising now. The process is super easy. Podbean can have a professional voiceover artist record the ad for you or you can upload your own audio. Again, that's podbean.com slash hala to get your ads on podcasts just like this. Great question, Aileen. Thank you so much. Thank you for your contribution. So I'm going to move you back down to the audience and I do want to introduce Mark Bowden to the stage. Mark Bowden has just joined Mark Bowden as a body language expert. He was voted the number one body language professional

in the world for two years running. He's the author of many books on body language and human behavior and his nonverbal techniques for influence and persuasion have been described as a secret weapon for G7 leaders. So Mark, welcome to the stage. I can't wait to hear all of your wonderful contributions. So how I have a question for Mark. So we have not met yet. I mean, obviously I did the last night,

but I'm so glad you just got here because I have a question that I was gonna kind of start with Chase and Dory, but I think I'd be great to start with you. Now personal branding, when people do decide, you know what? I know who I am. I know how I want to be perceived. I know how I want to show up in the marketplace or on social media or whatever it may be. That confidence comes and it takes time.

But when you're there and your interactions may involve body language that is potentially off-putting and this is maybe just a lack of eye contact or maybe this is, you know, hope you're putting your hands on your knees or being stiff. Is this really a factor in making sure that people are receiving your message well even if you're presenting what you think is the best intentionality and best representation of who you are and what you think is the best intentionality and best representation of who you are and what you want to represent. Yeah, well, here's the problem, Rich, is people judge you. They judge you, they judge me, they judge Haulab, they judge Dory, they judge Chase like we

all get judged. And how do people judge us? And the what criteria do we get judged? Because we are judging others and they do judge us. What we need to understand is, yes, we may well have worked out from our point of view. I know what my brand is. I know what I want to present to people. I know what I want to show up in their head about me.

Now we need to work out. How do we get that into their head? How do we know what we're projecting, what we're putting out there actually arrives in their mind, in the condition that we wanted it to arrive there and triggers them with the right idea about us. And so therefore, hey, if we do stuff with our body language that triggers them with the wrong idea about us, that's probably not the brand

we were going for. So confusion, for example, is not a brand that I can't quite work out who you are, what you're doing, what you stand for. If I'm confused about you, the brand probably isn't working. Hey, maybe I'm not your audience though. You know, maybe the brand isn't directed at me. So maybe I don't understand the signals. But if you needed me to understand the signal, send me the signal. Make sure it's a signal that I can understand and translate in the right way. Don't muddy it up with stuff. Make a choice. Make it bigger and keep it tidy. I hope that helps you with that rich. Absolutely. The only thing I would add onto that as a fall on is, you know, some people may say, but Mark, like, that's not authentic if I have to practice making certain faces in the mirror and smile talking or sitting a certain way or having better posture,

which I'm not saying that's necessarily true at all, but I'm sure there's people out there, and maybe I was one of these people, I don't know, who would lean on those kinds of things to weasel my way out of having to compromise anything that I thought was real to myself. What are your thoughts on that? Well, Rich, we all learned how to communicate, like we all learned it.

We learned it from our primary resource holders, the people important in our lives who held resource that was valuable to us and we needed, we mirrored them, we copied them, we learned from them. Do we remember learning from them? No, we probably don't remember learning from them, but we learned it wasn't our social behaviors, are not innate. Being social, yes, that's innate, but the behaviors we need to show in our particular group society in order to let other people know we understand that society, those are learnt behaviors, how did we learn them, sometimes we remember learning them, sometimes we remember being taught them, sometimes we just think hey that's just what you do isn't it, that's just think, hey, that's just what you do, isn't it? That's just me. That's just me being authentic. No, you learnt that stuff and everything can be learnt and everything

can be re-learned and you can learn how to be better at this. You can learn to be a better version of you today than you were yesterday. And tomorrow, you can get the information and help so you can show up and try and be a better version of you and that may not sound authentic to some people because they think it's just natural being them. You are partly learned behavior. A lot of your behaviors are what you've learned. Take that is no fun and that is exactly why we brought three of you on here. So thank you very much for that clarification and the added question there. How I know you we have a good question and I think you're going to reset.

Yeah, let's reset the room here. So if you guys are just tuning in, you are listening to command your brand, no fluff personal branding. We've got three amazing extras. We have Dory Clark Chase used, Mark Bowden here on the stage. They are all personal branding, human behavior, body language, experts, which are the perfect experts to have for this conversation.

And speaking of that, we have some folks on the stage here now with some relevant questions. One of them is a question that I was going to ask myself. So I'm going to kick it over to Kate to ask her amazing question. Thank you. Hi everyone. Just before I get into my question, I just wanted to thank you both,

Rich and Hala for hosting such a great room. I feel like so often personal branding is just all talk, but Dory and Chase and Mark, like thank you so much for giving actionable value and insight, really cannot wait for more of these rooms. So my question is in terms of personal branding, I often feel like it's what people think of you after a collection of interaction, after they know you for a while, but how do you make sure that you portray yourself and your personal brand during like a first impression or interaction?

I think we should just do like a round robin. So maybe we go, Dory, Chase, then Mark, for Kate's question on first impressions. So Kate, great question. And in fact, I wrote an article a number of years ago for Forbes, and he was one of my most popular ones that I ever did for Forbes,

where I interviewed Robert Chaldeini, who's the author of the great book, Influence, the Psychology of Persuasion, which I recently learned, they just came out with a new addition of it, and it has sold more than five million copies since it was first released, which is just stunning. But anyway, Chaldeini, who's really an expert in these issues, organizational psychology and influence, he had a really powerful tip. He said that if you want to make a strong first impression, there's literally one goal that you should

have. And that is as quickly as possible, try to find a commonality with the other person. And you know, the good news is, of course, if it is a legitimate commonality, you are being authentic. You're just, you're talking about some element of yourself, but it also happens to be, ideally, an element that overlaps with something about them. Maybe you used to work at the same company. Maybe you both have dogs. Maybe you're from the same hometown.

Maybe you both like the same sports team or the same TV show, whatever it is. But he said, try to just keep fishing so that as quickly as possible, you can find it because your goal in that first interaction is essentially to try to connect with someone so that they begin to view you as an us rather than a them. And that begins the virtuous cycle. It doesn't have to be a profound connection at first, but it just has to be enough of a connection so that they're willing to engage further and you can then go on from there to build deeper relationship. Brilliant. I love that. Finding common ground is super important when

it comes to first impressions. Chase, what are your thoughts? Absolutely. Agreed with Dory. That common ground is so important. If you're standing in the same building as a pertinent, then the building is the common ground. If you're at the same event in the same hotel, even if you're just carrying the same brand of bag or something as someone, that's the first common ground. When one common ground leads to larger common ground. So anytime you're in a conversation, you need to ask, discover, react and relate. And just ask your question about that person, ask a little tiny follow up question, get some more information, react to it, say, oh, wow, that's incredible.

And then relate and then say something similar or similar idea that you've had. That's the pathway to get to common ground as soon as possible. And first impressions are formed in as little as 33 milliseconds, 33 milliseconds. And most of that's because our brains are evolved to shortcut everything we do to maximize our hard drive that we can use for other stuff. But if you have somebody who's uncertain, or you have somebody who has a little bit of anxiety

or a little bit of doubt, that person's going to be searching for negative information, because they're searching for things that are just detecting danger. So they're looking for things that might be a threat. So it's important to mitigate that you look and you're internally feeling like you want to connect with other people and that you're open and communicating warmth to other people. And I think one of the best ways to start a conversation,

especially with that first impression, is to ask for advice or ask for an opinion on something for that somebody near you might be able to offer. I've even done something as small, like I was in Stockholm, Sweden. I had just held up a picture of my phone, and it was genuine. I asked someone if they knew how to crop an image

and they stopped everything they were doing to teach me how to use like the iPhone picture editing app. But absolutely common ground is the number one place to start. Awesome. Sorry Mark. How about you? That was awesome. Cheers. Thank you. Yeah. Couldn't agree more with both of those points there from Dorian Chase. Here's my issue with this idea idea of first impressions is this truism of you never get a second chance to make a first impression. And it's only a truism because that whole sentence messes around with the idea of second and first. The reality is, is you get a chance to make a new first impression every 33 milliseconds.

The brain is constantly has a radar on for looking for a difference, looking for something new, looking for something drastically different to happen, to alert it, to make a new assumption about the environment. The assumption of, is this a benefit to me and should I approach it, or is it there a risk for me and should I retreat away from it? And so what I say to people is, if you think that you may well for whatever reason have messed up your first impression. Don't try and change things subtly. Don't try and go, you know, I will gradually try and morph myself into a more reasonable better version of me for this person.

Make a choice, make it bigger, keep it tidy, make a quick, dramatic, big change so that the people around you, their instinct has a chance to reassess you. They will notice you again, first of all, they'll make a reassessment and yes, if you use those techniques talked about there from Ch know chase and die of find a connection then they're going to reconnect with you in a really positive way but never think out too late I messed it up the first time I'm done you're never done you can make a new impression and better impression every 33 milliseconds as Chase was saying there, now here's the thing, be better not to, they wouldn't it. Just make the best impression in the first place if you can.

Think about it before you even go in there. What do I want to get across? Who do they want to see? Do those two things fit? Can I come across as who I want to see, just who I want to be for them, fit in with who they really need, and if it does, can I just go in and deliver that to them? Hope that's helpful to you. Yeah, I wanted to say something I heard very recently, which is you have to always anticipate that there's going to be rain the day you plan the family picnic. And if you do that going into some of these interactions where you know especially in a business setting

which Dorian about to ask you something about that, that you'll be prepared and hopefully you don't have to circle back. Now Dorian, we've obviously talked many times and I wanted to ask you in kind of a real life scenario where you may have been consulting or maybe you're giving a keynote or something and you knew that it wasn't

necessarily your best or maybe for some of the entrepreneurs in the audience that they're pitched on this discovery call was not up to par and just to recap the the question from Kate was about initial first impressions on your personal brand. Dory what would you say in order to how would you approach it in terms of circling back to maybe salvage or reestablish your personal brand as Mark was saying, you still have all these other opportunities to do so. What is the best way to do that to calm some of the nerves of people who've been through that into audience?

Yeah, thanks Rich. So Mark is absolutely right. You cannot afford to be subtle because the truth is once people form an opinion of you, there's a phrase in psychology which I love, phrase is being a cognitive miser. And that is what the brain wants to do. The brain is optimized to conserve energy. And so of course, if there's some big change, if there's some big thing that happens, your brain is going to snap to attention.

But mostly, our brains are a little bit lazy. And so unless there's a good reason, our brain is not going to want to expend a lot of energy. And so that's how you end up in situations where, let's say, you've been working at the same company for seven years. Well, people formed an opinion of you when they first met you, and then they probably haven't actually updated it very much, which can lead to a lot of personal branding problems for people. This is something I talk about a lot in my book, reinventing you, because people

are still thinking of you as like the intern, meanwhile, you're like 35 now, and they haven't really picked up on the fact that you have learned a lot, that you're a lot sharper, that you have a lot more to bring to the table. So that's why we have to constantly be conscious about updating our brand and transmitting that to other people. So the quick version in terms of if you've gotten off on the wrong foot with someone, the thing to do, and forgive me, this is painful, but research has shown that what we want to do is we want to flee from the other person and not deal with them because it's weird and uncomfortable and embarrassing. That's the wrong move because if we flee

from them and don't just don't talk to them, they're never going to update their impression of us. It's going to stay ossified forever. What we have to do instead is to spend more time with them. And we actually have to do things like volunteer to spend more time with them, to be on the committee with them, etc. So that we are up close rubbing shoulders and that gives them a specific reason why they need to focus on us and update their impression. That was some excellent feedback in terms of how to get over, you know, an initial bad reaction. And I remember I interviewed Dr. Jack Schaefer, actually, Dory, the interview that you are on, episode number one, and I learned in that conversation

that like, you know, the first 30 seconds is what matters. And if you fail to make a good impression within those first 30 seconds, it will take a long time for people to get over the initial impression of you, even if you've had so many different interactions with them. So that initial first impression matters so much and I want to get into body language in a bit, but first I know that we have a relevant question on the stage, Caroline on the stage, has a question about rebranding, which I know a lot of you guys on stage have an opinion

about. So, Caroline, I'd love for you to ask your question since it's generally on this topic. Hi, guys. Thank you so much for having me up on stage. My question is, what is the best way to transition when you want to rebrand? Caroline, done. 100% Dory needs to answer this. Yeah, I agree. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it.

Great question, Caroline. It's actually perfect timing because I will answer this and then unfortunately I have a hard stop because I have a coaching client I have to get to to talk about rebranding. So I'll give you guys a preview. When it comes to rebranding, this is an area that I think the biggest mistake that I see is a failure to control our own narratives. What often happens is that we assume, either that people are paying more attention to us than they are, or that the moves that we're making will somehow intuitively make sense

to other people. And the rule of thumb that I think we can follow is to just, you know, air on the side of assuming that other people are completely checked out, that they're not paying attention to you, and that because they are in fact cognitive visors, they are just not going to connect any dots whatsoever on their own. And so therefore, we have to connect the dots for them. Now, of course, like your mom, your best friend, they're going to be paying attention.

But for everybody else, for all the random people, we have to create a script. We have to create a sort of pitch so that we can explain to them, okay, I used to do this thing. Now I want to do this other thing And if that's all we say they're gonna be like what that doesn't make any sense Huh, maybe she's having a midlife crisis like people just come up with all kinds of weird things So you have to tell the story you have to explain I used to do this. I'm going to do this thing

Here's how the pieces connect here's why I'm making the transition. Here's why I'm going to bring my special sauce to it. And the thing that I did before is going to give me a competitive advantage. If you see that and you're able to say that to other people, odds are, it's not that other people are rude or combative. They're not going to be like, no, Caroline, that's not true. Almost never. They're going to just be like, oh, OK. But they not true. Like, almost never. They're gonna just be like, oh, okay.

But they will receive it gladly and it'll be fine. But the issue is just they would never make the connection on their own. So you have to be conscious of what the narrative is and conveying it to other people first. So I hope that is helpful. I'm gonna sign off with you guys, but it's been awesome talking to everyone in Hala and Rich.

Thank you guys so much for having me on here and Mark and Chase. It's been fantastic to be your compatriots here. Like, wild, like, story. Thank you, Dory. Brilliant. Love it. Thank you. Let me follow up really quick with Caroline.

Anytime you're rebranding, if you've got a tribe of people, and there's some revenue or potential revenue coming from that tribe. So if you have 10,000 subscribers or whatever, and you rebrand in a way that alienates the people who are with you now or changes to target a new type of market, I'd be very cautious about doing a rapid rebrand. I would definitely do exactly what Dory was talking about

and explaining the reasons why. So they feel invested, they feel personally invested like they understand where the shift came from. I think shifting brands, when you've already got a following, is a little bit difficult only because it can spell the loss of revenue for you. Absolutely. And the last question is from Caroline, and it was Chase put some effort into that one as well. And Dory, but we're going to get to Mark and Mark's opinion on a rebrand and what it could mean as far as how that can affect whether it's positive or adversity, your personal

brand. Yeah, so let me approach this from how I might coach somebody into personal communication because that might help us understand what we need to do in some of the bigger communications when we're rebranding and how easy it actually might be. So in interpersonal communication, if I feel like I want to change the impression that I've made with somebody, I might go up to them and I might say, so I'm concerned that I've given you the wrong impression about me. What I want you to know about me is that I am X and I am Y and I am Zed. So how can I best do that for you? So all I'm doing is saying, I think you might have the wrong idea

about me. Here's exactly the idea that I want you to have about me. And then I say, what would I have to do for you to have that idea about me? That consistently works really well in interpersonal communication. Because if the other human being you're talking to has a social mammalian brain, they are designed to try and help

you. The moment you go, I'm really concerned about this. I've done something that might not be quite right. Here's what I'm trying to get. Give me some advice of how I'd get that with you. They'll usually jump in to help you around this. Now, could you do the same with that as a rebrand? Could you go to your audience who you're wanting to have a new impression of you and say, hey everybody, here's, I'm concerned because here's what I think you've been thinking about me. And what I really want you to think about me is X and Y and Zed. And so I'm just throwing it out there, I'm just asking you, what would you need to see and hear and look for me to do in order for you to know that be true? And so therefore, to Chase's point there, you're asking your constituency, you're asking your base.

Number one, what do I need to do in order for you to see this brand in me? I hope that's that's helpful and makes sense. Well, I mean, I mean, I don't know. That to me speaks to a personal brand that involves their audience. It's a decision you have to make, obviously. If you've already have a desire in your mind to re-brand, but now you're being inclusive of it, that's a much better feeling if you are on the other side of it,

rather than if you're just getting told this is what's happening. Do I have that right? Well, I couldn't agree more and it strikes this idea in me that if a personal brand isn't about your audience, then who on earth is it about? Now I can totally see how you could create a personal brand for you. It's a message for yourself to keep you on track for how you want to be, to keep you in line, to keep you, your best version of yourself. But who are you doing that for? Because if you're just doing it in a vacuum of you, that's actually

what we call an anti-social behaviour disorder. I might put forward. So you've really always got to think about the other human beings around you. Who are you doing this for? Why and how is it going to make your combined world, your community a better place because we're social mammals, we are not individuals, we are groups of individuals put together as a social unit and that goes a little against the modern individualism idea and more into a collectivism idea so that might not ring true for some ideologies that are out there but it's kind of empirically true in terms of our species. but it's kind of empirically true in terms of our species. Yeah, Pam, if you're ready to take your business to New Heights, break through to the 6 or 7-figure mark or learn from the world's most successful people, look no further because the Kelly Roach Show has got you covered. Kelly Roach is a best-selling author, a top-ranked podcast host,

and an extremely talented marketer. She's the owner of Not One, but 6th-thriving companies, and now she's ready to share her knowledge and experience with you on the Kelly Roach show. Kelly is an inspirational entrepreneur, and I highly respect her. She's been a guest on YAP. She was a former social client. She's a podcast client. And I remember when she came on Young and Profiting and she talked about her conviction marketing framework, it was like mind blowing to me. I remember immediately implementing

what she taught me in the interview in my company and the marketing efforts that we were doing. And as a marketer, I really, really respect all Kelly has done, all Kelly has built. In the corporate world, Kelly secured seven promotions in just eight years, but she didn't just stop there. She was working in nine to five. And at the same time, she built her eight figure company as a side hustle and eventually took it and made

it her full-time hustle. And her strategic business goals led her to win the prestigious Inc. 500 award for the fastest growing business in the United States. She's built an empire. She's earned a life changing wealth. And on top of all that, she maintains a happy marriage and healthy home life. On the Kelly Road show, you'll learn that it's possible to have it all. Tune into the Kelly Road Show as she unveils her secrets for growing your business. It doesn't matter if you're just starting out in your career or if you're already a seasoned entrepreneur. In each episode, Kelly shares the truth about what it takes to create rapid, exponential growth. Unlock your potential, unleash your success, and start living your dream life today.

Tune into the Kelly Road Show, available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, ya fam. As you may know, I've been a full-time entrepreneur for three years now. Yet media blew up so fast, it was really hard to keep everything under control,

but things have settled a bit, and I'm really focused on revamping and improving our company culture. I have 16 employees, so it's a lot of people to try to rally and motivate, and I recently had bestselling author Kim Scott on the show. And after previewing her content in our conversation, I just knew I had to take her class on masterclass, tackle the hard conversations with Radical Cander to really absorb all she has to offer. And now I'm using her radical candor method every day with my team to give in solicit feedback, to cultivate a more inclusive culture, and to empower them with my honesty.

And I can see my team feeling more motivated and energized already. They are really receptive to this framework, and I'm so happy because I really needed this class. With masterclass, you can learn from the best to become your best anytime, anywhere, and at your own pace. And we all know that profiting in life doesn't just mean thriving in business. With masterclass, you can brush up on your art skills or your cooking skills or even your modeling skills. With over 180 classes from a range of world class instructors. That thing you've always wanted to do better is just a few clicks away. On masterclass you'll find courses from many appa officer guests like Chris Voss and

Daniel Pink. I've been taking their sales and negotiation classes and I've been feeling like a real shark lately. I've totally leveled up my sales skills. How much would it cost you to take a one-on-one class from the world's best? A lot. But with masterclass annual memberships, it just cost you $10 a month. I have to say the most surprising thing about masterclass since I started this incredible journey on the platform is the value. For the quality of classes instructors. The platform itself is beautiful.

The videos are super high quality. You can't beat it. Game new skills and as little as 10 minutes on your phone, your computer, tablet, smart TV, and my personal favorite way to learn is their audio mode to listen on the go. That way, I can multitask while I learn. Get unlimited access to every class

and right now as a app listener, you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com slash profiting. That's masterclass.com slash profiting for 15% off an annual membership masterclass.com slash profiting. I'd actually love to stick on that a bit because I find it extremely fascinating. You know, I know that like when it comes to humans and and then in the Stone Age like we need each other to survive. So how does that kind of like mentality of of meeting people to survive actually impact personal branding and how we treat each other

when it comes to, you know, understanding each other, respecting each other and things like that. Chase, do you want to take that one? Yeah, we definitely passed that to Mark. He's got the sociological background to really explain some of that stuff. But I think if we look back to evolution and remember all good persuasion and influence works because our ancestors needed to live. So the way that a tribe got along was determining factor on whether or not you survived. So if any time you have a tribe and you are alienating the tribe or making them feel like they can't expect what's coming next. And we remember at the very beginning of this

chat we talked about our brain as an expectancy machine. We are able to walk and take steps and eat food all because we can expect what's happening next. So any kind of uncertainty in brand, especially during a shift, creates uncertainty in the tribe, and that's something we've definitely got to manage. Mark, what do you think? I couldn't agree more, Chase. Here's the way I look at it, is we've got this social mammalian brain, as Chase was talking about there, and it is purely designed to get us into groups. The only reason it's there is to stop us being an individual and form groups, so we are more competitive than other individual organisms and some other groups. And the way it groups us together is under values, beliefs, rituals, customs, goals, concerns, and signals.

Let me just attack two of those elements, because I think they're probably most important when it comes to building some kind of brand. Values are what we believe are most important. The things that we think are most important. What do I and my group value most? Because the reason I value it most is because I was taught to value it most.

It was the way to fit in with the group that I value it most. I was indoctrinated into that group, via that value system. There were rituals and customs that I took part in in order to make sure those values were imbued. They were literally locked into the neurology of my brain. So if your brand can display that value system, it will fit with the group, the group will want to be a part of it, they will trust it. Bel. Beliefs are the things we know to be true and require no more evidence around, the things that we believe that we know to be true

and require no more evidence around. Think about your brand, think about what you're communicating that you know to be true and require no more evidence around because the beliefs of your brand are going to include some and exclude others. The values of your brand will include some and will exclude others. No brand can be universally accepted, universally loved, or in fact universally hated. You have to choose what are your values, what are your beliefs, and you distribute those and display those through your rituals, customs, goals, concerns, and signals. And if you are strong in those,

they will rub up against others' brands, be sometimes quite competitive or even combative with them. They will cause people to gravitate towards you and others to be repelled away from you. Brilliant, brilliant response. I love having rooms with Mark and Chase because they're just such a wealth of knowledge and I feel like there's no question I can ask that really st wealth of knowledge and I feel like there's no question I can ask that really stumps you guys and I love that. So we have two of the biggest body language experts in the world on stage, if not the two biggest in the whole world. So I definitely

need to ask you guys about body language. So there's a lot of people here in the room who are probably brand new to body language, brand new to personal branding. And so, if you guys can just give like a one-on-one in terms of body language and how it relates to personal branding and, you know, what actions and simple gestures and things that we can do to increase our persuasion, increase our credibility, and change someone's perception about us. So, I'd love to kick it off. Maybe let's start with Mark and then

Chase in terms of like what is your like basic guidance in terms of body language related to personal branding? Yeah, lovely. Okay, so look I think there are some really simple models that you can just think about body language from in order to get an idea of what you want to get across. Look, as I said right at the start of all of this, we judge each other. I judge you, you judge me, and we judge each other based on behaviors, on information we get about you, and a lot of the behavior,

a lot of the information that we're looking for is around what you physically do because you have an impact on the world, not only by what you physically do because you have an impact on the world, not only by what you say, but language turned up a lot later on in our evolution that our instinct is really obsessed with what your body is physically doing in order to understand is this person a benefit or a risk. So let's just think about body language, either being open or closed, or sometimes I call it being warm or cold. Think about yourself in front of a warm fire and how open your

body language is because you're really absorbing that lovely heat. And think about yourself on a cold day where you've closed up, you've tightened yourself, you've minimized how big your body is, and you're not moving very much because you're wanting to conserve, because energy, conserving energy, if you don't conserve enough energy, there's a risk around that. Just open or close the body language. Now, which one of those do you feel would best represent you and the idea about you that you're trying to get across to your specific audience.

Because there is no bad body language, there's just results that you wanted or didn't want. And really that's my main point, okay? That there is no such thing as bad body language. There's only a result that you wanted or a result that you didn't want. And you can control a lot of your body language. Some is harder to control and some of that you can't control, you have to countermeasure it, but there's a lot of your behaviour that you are totally in charge of. It takes a bit of effort and sometimes it takes very little effort, but you can be in charge of some of the most important stuff What do you want to convey to other people?

Simple model, do you want to be open to them and warm or do you want to be close to them and cold? Or is it something in between on that kind of scale there? But you can control this and even when I say open or closed there, but you can control this. And even when I say open or closed, cold or warm, you're getting a picture in your head of how you already would look in that situation. You're internally modeling with your mirror neurons based on my words, you're modeling in your head, oh, this is what I'd look like if I'm open. This is what I'd look like if I'm closed. And if I said to you, hey, just do that now, do that now, you'd be able to do it.

You'd be able to do it on purpose. And then I'd say, so can you do that 24-7? Can you, when you are certainly conscious control, when you're not asleep, could you do that more often than you don't do it? Could you do it more on purpose? That for me is controlling your brand, deciding the message, deciding the

meaning by being in control of your body language. It's my take on it. Check, what do you think? I agree with everything Mark said. You absolutely can. There's a phrase that really got me moving forward on a lot of the stuff that I'm doing nowadays, just to get it out there. And that phrase is, done is better than perfect. And you can always fix it a little bit later, but getting it out there is better than having a perfect product, because that might take years and years.

And it'll, nothing will ever be perfect. So done is better than perfect. Get started on your brand today. Yeah, couldn't agree more, couldn't agree more. One person once put it to me like this, a bad idea today is better than couldn't agree more, couldn't agree more. One person once put it to me like this, a bad idea today is better than a great idea tomorrow because you know if you start building that bad idea today, you'll know by the end of the day that it was the wrong choice and you'll start reiterating and you'll build

something bigger and you'll be ahead of the game so I couldn't agree more with that. So here's my idea around this and actually before I go into this idea, thank you, Halah, thank you Rich for having me here and especially it's always great here to be with Chase because Chase is like family, if not family, you can find myself and Chase on the behaviour panel with Greg and Scott. So join us there if you're like hanging out with us and Rich and Halah, I hope you'll have us back again sometime. So here's my thoughts around this.

Best advice I've ever really been given about how to create an image of some sort and brand is an image of some sort is make a choice, make it bigger, keep it tidy, decide what you want to communicate. Now, so that's make a choice, make a strong choice. The next problem is you haven't made it big enough, they're never going to see that, whatever choice you just made, they're never going to notice it. So now take that choice and make it even bigger. So they're really never going to be able to miss it. Now here's what's going to happen. You're going to go, oh, but if I just added a bit of this and I added a bit of that and I just put some tinsel around the

side and put a bit of glitter on and added a banana to it and some whipped cream, like that would make it even better. No, it won't. It won't. You'll spoil it. You'll destroy it. You'll muddy it. Keep it tidy. Don't do anything else. You make a choice, you make it bigger, and you keep it tidy. And then people will really know what it is you're communicating. Here's the issue, and you're going to have to be a brave. They might not like it. That's the only thing. It might be so clear, they might go, you know what?

It's clear what you're doing. I don't like it. But the people who does resonate with are going to go, I get it. I want to be part of that. Where do I join in with you? Where do I sign up? So there it is.

Make a choice. Make it bigger. Keep it tidy. I love that. That's so brilliant. So before you guys go, I do want to make sure that everybody knows about all your books where to find

you. I know you guys do a show together. So let's kick it over to Chase and then Mark if you guys can just let everybody know where they can find you. Yeah, for me, you can just Google Chase Use or go to chaseuse.com. I'm most active on Instagram and that's just Chase Use official on Instagram, which is in my bio. If you just click on my face right there. And we also have a show on YouTube. I think we're one of the fastest growing channels on YouTube. And that's called the Behavior Panel. It's me, it's Mark, it's a guy named Greg Hartley, and Scott Rouse. So we're four of the world's top behavioral experts, and we diagnose videos,

and whether or not people are being honest or deceptive from politicians and murder cases to people who say they gave birth to aliens to see whether or not they are telling the truth and it's a pretty fun show. It's definitely the best night of my week when we record those episodes and I'll kick it over to Mark. And thanks everybody. Yeah, absolutely. Get out to the behavior panel. Join us there. It's a lot of fun. We have a lot of fun over there. If you want to hang out with me, then just like Chase, but Google Mark Bowden and you will find me there.

Go over to LinkedIn. I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. I post a lot of content up there. I hang out a lot with people there because it's kind of the business crowd for me that I really work with. So get over there and link in with me immediately and we can talk more there. All right. Well, thank you guys so much for everything.

Haala, do you have any parting thoughts? It was way exceeded my expectations by miles. I think that this was such an incredible session and I'm just so thankful to have the opportunity to be a creator's first finalist, you know, just being here is wonderful, and you know, I hope to continue to have rooms like this, and I really appreciate Mark Chase Dory who was here earlier all their time. And I think either way, we had a wonderful conversation, and everybody who listened and gained amazing insights. So thank you guys so much, Rich, I'll kick it over to you to close.

Yeah, thank you all. Look, all I wanna say in the end is a personal brand is not fluffy, it doesn't have to be scary and it doesn't need to be complicated. You got a lot of different advice whether it was business situational or behavioral or a communicative, there's so many different pockets and you can probably find many, many off ramps to avoid actually taking it seriously.

But I have not yet met a person or worked with a person who has been sad or disappointed that they ever began taking it seriously, because ultimately what I think it is and what it can do, it's an exercise in self development like no other. Entrepreneurship is very much the same way, but if you are able to tap into perfecting some of the things of value and being clear on who you are and what messages you wanna convey

and who you wanna attract knowing, like Mark and Chase said, that 50% of the people probably won't care or won't be interested, you'll probably repel some but attract others. Then that's our duty in my opinion is to help other people through some of our experiences and that's why Holla and I are so passionate about this, that's why we brought the experts that we brought on. So we are incredibly grateful for your support and spending so much time with us and clubhouse if you're listening. I know you know you want more of this. So I hope you enjoyed it as well. So thank you everyone for coming

and have a wonderful wonderful, wonderful, rest of your Thursday. Thank you, brilliant job, guys. Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. Thanks a lot. See you all. Bye now. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? See you all, bye now. and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness without spending a lot of time energy or money.

Suggestions such as follow the one-minute rule. Choose a one-word theme for the year, or design your summer. We also feature segments like, know yourself better, where we discuss questions like, are you an over buyer or an under buyer? Morning person or night person,

abundance lever or simplicity lever? And every episode includes a happiness hack, a quick, easy shortcut to more happiness. Listen and follow the podcast, happier with Gretchen Rubin. This episode includes a happiness hack, a quick, easy shortcut to more happiness. Listen and follow the podcast, Happier with Gretchen Rubin.