Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - YAPLive: The Gig Economy and The Future of Work on Clubhouse | Uncut Version

Episode Date: June 18, 2021

Join Hala for a live Young and Profiting Podcast Episode with Gig Economy and Outsourcing experts Joey Hickson, Maddy Osman, Tim Salau, Dana Bowling and Liya Palagashvili. They will discuss how businesses effectively integrate freelancers into their workflows and benefit from having access to the best talent in the world with just a few clicks.   This Episode is Sponsored by Fiverr   ***Meet the Moderators***   Tim Salau - Mr.Future Of Work and CEO of Guide, a B2B Learning & Talent Development app joined us back in episode #90 The American Dream last year   Joey Hickson is Social Media producer with 4M+ following on Instagram who runs an 7-figure marketing agency - proud to also call him my business partner   Maddy Osman SEO Content Strategist & Founder at The Blogsmith a SEO content agency   Liya Palagashvili - Assistant Professor of Economics at State University of New York-Purchase and a research fellow with NYU Law.   Dana Bowling - motivational speaker, online business coach, and IG + Clubhouse marketing queen    Jeremy Abramson- is a high energy coach, tiktok super star and host of the Trive University podcast.   Social Media:   Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Follow Hala on ClubHouse: @halataha Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode of YAP is sponsored in part by Shopify. Shopify simplifies selling online and in-person so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com-profiting. This episode of YAP is sponsored by Ole Body. Why do you shower? The most obvious answer is cleanliness, but there's way more to it. If you listen to ya,

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I'm your host, Halla Taha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions.

If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of XFBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, had to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast. Welcome to a live episode of Young & Profiting Podcast. I'm your host, Halataha, and for those of you who might be new to the show, we are a number one education podcast across

all apps. And today's show is a live recording. We're going to be recording this for young and profiting podcasts. And we're chatting about building a business in the gig economy and the future of work. So many of you may know that COVID has accelerated the participation in the gig economy. And even before COVID, independent workers were a growing part of the U.S. labor force with more than a third of workers involved in the gig economy. Now fast forward to 2021, wages and participation grew by 33% and gig workers are growing at a rate that's three times higher than the general workforce. And the reasons behind all of this we're going to be uncovering throughout today's panel and interview. And we're going to be talking about how to grow a business in a de-risk way by leveraging the gig economy, some of the do's and don'ts when it comes to outsourcing, and how to thrive

as an independent worker, and the future of the gig economy and work as a whole. So I can't wait for this discussion. It's going to be great. And I'm joined by an expert panel today. And with us on stage here, we have Maddie Joey and Donna. And we're gonna be having other experts join as well. So I'm gonna just introduce the folks who are here right now. Joey Hickson, he's a social media producer.

He's got four million followers on Instagram and he runs a seven figure marketing agency. Also proud to call him one of my business partners. Also, Maddie Osman, she's a CEO, content strategist and the founder of Blogsmith, a CEO, content agency. We also have Donna Bowling, she's a motivational speaker and online business coach and the Instagram and clubhouse marketing queen.

So thank you guys so much for joining us. And later in a bit, we should have Tim Salu here, as well as Leah Palla Gashivi, who are all huge experts in the gig economy. Oh, there we have Leah. She's raising her hand here. And then we just bring her up on stage. And so we have Leah on stage.

She's the Assistant Professor of Economics at State University of New York Purchase and also a research fellow with the New York University Law School. So welcome to the stage and hopefully Tim will be joining us soon. And today's event is sponsored by Fiverr. If you're a business owner, Fiverr's global network of on-demand freelance talent is here to help you scale your business from graphic design, copywriting, web programming, and more. Find your talent and begin working on your project within minutes.

For 10% off your first order, use code Influencer21. Okay, so I love to set the stage. I would love to give some people background on the topic of the gig economy. It's also known as the sharing economy, the on-demand workforce. There's lots of different words that describe this modern workforce. And it's mostly characterized by short-term contracts, freelance work, as opposed to permanent jobs.

And I mentioned some stats in my intro about how it's growing so fast a group by 33% last year. So my first question to the panel is, what are the reasons behind some of these businesses wanting to use gig work more often? And also why people in general have decided to participate in the gig economy. So maybe let's start with Leah. I know you've done a lot of research on this. So I know that you'll be able to answer this question. And then anybody who wants to go next just flash your mic.

All right. Hi, everyone. My name is Leah. And I actually have a work change. I'm a senior research fellow at the Mercata Center and I do a lot of research on the gig economy and to answer this question, I'll speak from the worker side. So I reviewed tons of research on the gig economy and my review of 16 different surveys, the number one reason that came for why workers participate in the gig economy is of course flexibility. And there is even some recent research that for some gig workers they would have to be paid double the pay in order to accept a very rigid employment like schedule. So we're just seeing that people in the gig economy value flexibility a lot and

more than you'd see compared to a typical worker. So I'd say that's the number one reason why we're seeing workers want to be in the economy or want to be engaged in this type of independent work. And do you know how COVID has impacted this or accelerated this at all? That's a great question. There's an annual survey called Fre freelancing in America and they just released their post-COVID survey and what they found is that some type of freelancing has decreased and other type of freelancing has increased to post the pandemic. But overall,

we actually saw an increase in freelancing post-COVID and we're seeing a lot just slightly different types of freelancing, so more high-skilled, more people in urban areas and more male. And so it has increased, it has just slightly changed in the demographics. Amazing. Thank you so much for breaking that down. So I know we're waiting for Tim here. Hopefully he'll be here in a minute. He's the Mr. Future of Work. He's got a lot of knowledge on the topic. So I'm gonna kind of pivot here. I was gonna go more into the background, but why don't we move to our experiences in the gig economy?

Because Maddie, Joey, Don, I know, all of you guys have participated, at least from my understanding that you guys have participated as gig workers. So I'd love to hear like what drew you into the gig economy specifically and what has been your experience working in the gig economy? Why don't we start with Maddie and then let's go to Joey and then Donna.

Yeah, of course. So for me, I guess what drew me to it was just the freedom of building a business without necessarily having an audience. I think that's what drives a lot of people to the gig economy is just the possibility. And I think for me, specifically, Fiverr was a market person I was very active on when I was first building my freelance career. I was going to say it was actually a mentor who introduced me to it. He had been using Fiverr really successfully to bring on new social media clients to be creating content for them. And so he kind of guided me. And I don't know that I would have considered it if I didn't have someone who was kind of holding my hand

so that it really helped. But I will say that it really serves as a great marketplace for people who don't have clients or maybe don't have an online presence that's established. It's a great place to start building that and to build up your portfolio. So that's what initially drew me to get economy marketplaces like Fiverr. Awesome, thank you so much, Maddie. And I know you've been super successful.

So we're going to dig into some of your tips later in terms of how to thrive as a freelancer and in the gig economy. Joey, how have you participated in the gig economy so far? Yeah. So for me, thanks for having me, by the way, when I first started with Instagram back in 2010, that was the first time I actually started working for myself and started seeing the power of only your own business. And I didn't know if fiber was out when I first started, but through doing things like e-commerce marketing and using the power of social media to push e-commerce brands and businesses, that's when I started using fiber and started really seeing the power of it. Because at first, when I first started,

it was more of like finding people local within my area that could hopefully see the vision I had, that could hopefully follow the roadmap and process that I had in my head. And then from there, it was, if that didn't work, it was going on YouTube and like trying to watch videos and figure it out myself. And I found that it was just a headache.

And instead of having to just learn a new trade and many trades, I could just find someone that was an expert in that specific field and many fields that would help me build my business and be sustainable. And so once I started doing that, my business 10x because now I was less reliable on wearing somebody hats and I could just focus on what I'm good at, which is marketing and branding. And so from there, I mean, it really helped pivot to where I'm at today. And I mean, honestly, a lot of my success actually came from Fiverr and the gig economy. So it's awesome. I love the subject.

And I know it's helped change millions of lives. Awesome. Thank you so much, Joey, for sharing. Donna, I'd love to hear how you participated in the gig economy. Hey, Hala, this Donna. So happy to be here. It's such an interesting conversation

because my former life as a casting director was also part of the gig economy. I've actually never had a job. Actually, I take that back, but very, very few of my years in my career have been in a standard scheduled, you know, salary type job. Most of my jobs have always been independent gigs and I actually loved it that way. I thought I'd want a job where I was really, you know, I had that stability that I thought I was craving and the salary and I ended up pulling my hair out of my like head. I hated it. I hated not having any switch up in who I was working with and where I was going every day and what

projects I was working on. And so I realized, you know, quickly that that's just kind of who I am. My NEA Graham 3 self is always looking for something different. I just don't like being committed to the same thing, but when it comes to my own business now, I am constantly outsourcing for stuff, using different platforms and different people

because I realized really fast that my zone of genius is not in a lot of things like design or sales page copy. I love doing what I do, which is showing up and speaking and connecting with my audience and coaching, but I was getting wrapped up in that idea. And so the feeling of having someone out there that you can just kind of hit up and hopefully get to,

you know, kind of accelerate your business because time is money, and I truly believe investing in your business and outsourcing is the reason why I was able to grow as fast as I was. That too. I love that. I love all of these success stories,

both as freelancers and independent workers in the gig economy and as business owners. I think we've got all sides of the coin here today. So I'm really excited. And then I just want to shout out to our sponsor, Fiverr. If you guys want 10% off your first order, you can use the code influencer21 on Fiverr. And if you don't know about Fiverr, they are an on-demand freelance talent hub,

and they'll help you outsource and scale your business from graph design, copywriting, web programming, and more. You can find your talent and begin working on your project within minutes. Check out Fiverr.com and use that code influencer21 for 10% off your first order. Let's move this along. I wanna talk about the difference

between independent gig workers and traditional workers. Like what are the main differences for people who are unfamiliar? What are the differences between these types of workers? Why don't we start with Leah and then anybody who else wants to talk just flash your mic and we'll move to you next. For me, I'm looking at the differences

from a research perspective. And my research team and I, not sure Mike and we'll move to you next. For me, I'm looking at the differences from a research perspective and my research team and I, we actually analyzed over 900 occupations across the US and we found that gig workers are basically entirely unique in the type of work that they produce when compared to traditional employees. So typical employees are very much interdependent with teams and they have greater elements of interactive coordination,

communication and shared responsibilities and results. And gig workers or independent workers, as you shall call them, in contrast, they provide a very individual-based product or service. That's more easily, excuse me, separable and discrete, kind of like creating a screenplay or tutoring student. And I think these characteristics can also explain why the concept of flexibility is such a staple feature

of the gig economy. I think when there's greater reliance on interdependent teamwork, it's more difficult for an individual worker to maintain a flexible schedule. Partly because they have to coordinate the joint efforts of team members that may require the workers be available, often face to face at specific times. That's super helpful. And I think that flexibility really is driving this gig economy.

I think everybody wants to work remotely. Everybody wants to kind of pick their own hours. And I think the pandemic really helps solidify that, because I think people had to make a lot of choices where either they were laid off and the gig economy was one way to kind of control their destiny and take it into their own hands. And then also I think a lot of companies

as they downsize because of COVID, hiring and outsourcing was a way to kind of de-risk building a team all over again. Because I think that a lot of these business owners who had to lay off employees and lay off entire teams, it must be a little hard to go ahead and go build back a team knowing that things are so uncertain and maybe it makes more sense to kind of outsource certain projects and de-risk that scaling of your business. So I think that COVID really had a lot to do with some of this acceleration. So let's talk about the do's and don'ts of outsourcing.

A lot of us on stage are business owners. We've used platforms like Fiverr and other ways to outsource our projects. So what type of activities do you currently outsource? And what are your rules of thumb in terms of what you keep in-house versus what you outsource? Why don't we start with Maddie? Sure, and I just wanted to add something really quick to the last point about the difference between sort of like the typical worker and a gig economy worker. I think one of the differences is like the typical worker and a gig economy worker. I think one of the differences is the level of trust

you have in the open market for getting health insurance. And so one tip that might help somebody out there is when I decided to make that jump from being fully employed by a company to being my own company was that I looked into getting on my then boyfriend now husband's health insurance via a affidavit of domestic partnership. So some companies offer that even if you're not necessarily married to that person but

you know you're in a committed relationship so that might be something that can help someone else out there who is considering but not yet ready to make that move in terms of things that I'm outsourcing right now. It's pretty much everything everybody on my team right now is a subcontractor either 1099 or you know they might be an international worker where we don't necessarily have to use a 10-9 d9. So it's everything from things like helping me with social media to helping me create content, writing content for clients, editing. If somebody who now helps me to process payments to my subcontractors, somebody who helps me create proposals, someone who helps me with keyword research, I have a CPA and bookkeeper I also work with. It's really just about anything that you can think of. I am currently delegating via outsourcing in my business.

That's amazing. And do you have a rule of thumb in terms of what you outsource versus what you do yourself or keep in house? I guess I'm hoping to eventually outsource everything. So what I do in the meantime, if I'm not ready, is I create process documentation based on what I'm doing myself and then figure out how to translate that for somebody else to take over it. So the goal is for everything, I guess, to be outsourced, but maybe the things that I keep closest to me ultimately revolve around things like paying people or dealing directly with clients. That's something where I would eventually like to hire someone to do sales for me, but right now I'm in the process of kind of creating all that documentation and just not ready to give it up yet. Awesome, thank you, Joey. What type of things do you outsource currently

and what's your rule of thumb in terms of what you outsource and what you keep in house? Yeah, that's a great question. So for me, when I first started, I was doing everything myself at first. Then I realized, man, I'm gene over 30 million followers with different pages. That's a lot to do on my own.

So I started looking for outside help. What I did was I hired a VA, a virtual assistant to help me with emails, DMs, and just being sure that my day-to- day is being handled smoothly. And one thing that really helped me without sourcing was actually hopping on the phone with this person, actually via Zoom,

at the time it was Skype, but via Zoom, what really helped me was actually having that one on one with them because I was able to see their face here how they talk on the phone and see if there's a language barrier. Especially if anyone wants to hire someone that wants to do that customer service work for them, you got to make sure that there's no language barrier, and that it's being your message with them is being clear and delivered because they reflect your business.

And so for me, what was really powerful, it helped me, was basically just interviewing them. My background was managing health clubs for the last 20 years. And so for me, managing and delegating was something I really was good at. And so that's basically what I did with Fiverr. And when I hired someone was I was just asking them like basically, you know, things as I would a typical interview. And when I found out that I found someone that was right fit, she's been with me now for like four years and she's great and from there I've added more people but it just comes down to make it sure

that they align with your mission, your goals and are they going to help or hinder your business and at that end day you've got to find someone that's right for you and in your business and it could help you scale and take it to that that next level and for me ever since I started outsourcing my business is definitely at least 10x and it's been great. And so I love using services like Fiber that can definitely help me find the right people for my place and it really just help take my business to the next level.

I love that. Thanks so much, Joey, for sharing Donna. I know that you're an online business coach, so you must talk about outsourcing all the time and you must be giving people tips all the time about how to outsource and scale their business. I'd love to hear your perspective. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely changed the game for me

and I think it changes the game for all my clients when they can financially actually take that leap. The way I kind of pick which has to be outsourced in my business and then help my clients with ours is I create that quadrant, a four-way quadrant, right? So the top left is things I love doing and that I'm really good at. The top right is things I love doing that I'm not good at. The bottom left is things I hate doing but I'm good at and the bottom right is things I hate doing and I'm not good at. And the first thing

that goes are the things that I hate doing and that I'm not good at. And the first thing that goes are the things that I hate doing and that I'm not good at. That's like buy, right? So the first thing that went in my business was any sort of admin tasks. I hate scheduling tasks, invoicing contracts, and I got a VA for that. And then the next thing that I really disliked

was any sort of tech issues, you know, creating my sales pages and uploading Zoom videos to my membership portal, so I got a tech VA. And then the next thing was in my podcast, I couldn't stand producing my own podcast, so I got a podcast producer, and then I got a little help with a social media manager for that podcast Instagram page. And then finally, actually the best outsourcing that I've ever gotten, and still to this day is like the best investment is an online business manager because a lot of us as entrepreneurs we feel like we need to

we're very good with the vision of our business but the idea of actually implementing is a little bit tricky at least for me I need someone to like tell me what to do every day or else I get lost. So essentially I hired someone to be my boss and she comes in and she kind of just runs everything and connects everyone. But I understand for a lot of new entrepreneurs it's really, really hard to find someone. But luckily I mean there's so many ways to do it in an affordable way and you don't need to hire someone full-time part-time or project-based is the way to do it. I love that. I love that quadrant that you described. I think that's a really good way to kind of figure out what skills you're good at, what skills you could do without or outsource to somebody else.

I think that was really great stuff. So Jeremy, welcome to the stage. Happy to have you here. And we have Mr. Future of Work, Tim Salo. Finally here, thank you for coming. Jeremy, I'd love to hear your experience in the gig economy, whether you've been a seller, whether you've been a buyer, and how do you typically participate in the gig economy? And if you have any rules of thumb, when it comes to insourcing versus outsourcing. Yeah, I appreciate you, Hal. I've already learned so much from just being on the stage

and listening to the other speakers. I definitely want to piggyback what Joey said in regards to communicating kind of your mission to whoever you do bring on, because I feel like that creates more connection with the people and they feel more significant in the work they're doing, like they understand that it's for a significant purpose and a reason. And I think oftentimes that doesn't happen. I know I was guilty of that, like when I was first kind of bringing on some VAs and the two most recent people I brought on like a year ago was very clear about kind of talking

about my core values. What our mission is, the impact we're intending to make. And I feel like they felt more inspired when we had those conversations. In regards to the podcast, specifically, that I host, Thrive University. So I've outsourced basically a majority of it, like the show notes, the micro content production,

all of those things. The one thing that I still do in regards to the podcast that I tried outsourcing, but it just wasn't getting me the results that I desired, was timestamps for that microcontent from the podcast. So I'd have the person who did the show notes, watched the videos, and I'd kind of give her a criteria for what would make a good 60 second, 90 second clip

for social media. And they were oftentimes missing. We were just missing in regards to like creating those impactful 30 to 90 second moments. So those are things that I do. It's like I go back, I watch every episode right after it's done. And I create the timestamps for the microd's content we create and I also find in that experience that it's valuable for me

because I'm able to go back and like, I hope we lost him again. We'll get him back on stage in a second. So Tim, you are here and I was very excited for you to join the conversation. You are a Mr. feature of Workier, the CEO of Guide, a B2B learning and talent development app. You joined us back on Young and Profiting Podcast Episode number 90, the American Dream

with Tim Salo. Welcome to the stage, Tim. Hey, how are you? Thanks so much for having me. This has been a lovely conversation to drop in on so far. Awesome. So we're talking about the do's and don'ts of outsourcing versus insourcing. And I'd love to hear your thoughts. Like, I know you've been

in corporate, you've been really big executive positions at corporate companies. I'm sure you have a lot of experience with outsourcing versus hiring talent in house. And I'd love to hear like if you have a rule of thumb on what you outsource for what you keep in house. And I'd love to hear like if you have a rule of thumb on what you outsource for what you keep in house. I love this question because it's so important, especially if you're a founder and entrepreneur, to understand that you want to optimize your business around what you want your business to be great at. So I've been grateful enough to work with Microsoft and a few other companies

in where I've learned in big tech companies are just really big enterprise companies is that mostly operation, everything is chaos. Especially if you go out to like a company that's operating at the level of a Microsoft or as most people know, we work. My experience is there was crazy because operation has saw just how bad things were. So when I found in my own business, Guy, we are a lifestyle brand. We own a software company, we are on a software company, and we also own a really popular tea brand called Big Black Tea. I realized that how

we're going to be successful is if we just focused on what matters most, which is fundamentally serving and delivering value to our customers. So we've optimized our business around really focusing on the products that we offer, and then using freelancers, whether through Fiverr or Upwork, or just even people I meet in Houston or in other areas that I travel to, how can we partner with them and maybe do a creative collab with them or have one of them manage our social media if it's someone that we feel really honest, it's the tone of voice of our brand. All of these things have allowed us to really, run really, really fast as a company and actually execute beyond our roadmap actually.

So we really value, work with freelancers, that guy. Love that. And so I wanna toss it over to Leah because I know that you've done a ton of research on this topic. You actually had an article come out about the female participation in the gig economy. So I'd love for you to shed some color in terms of females in the gig economy

and what's feeling their participation are like, what are the things that we need to know about women in the gig economy? Thanks and this is a great question and I love this topic. So we don't think of women in the gig economy because oftentimes we have the concept of like Uber or DoorDash in our minds. But actually a recent study finds that if you take out the transportation sector entirely, women actually comprise a greater share of income earners on the gig economy across these digital platforms.

And think about some of these platforms like I look through the website, through annual reports of like Etsy and others like that. And I found just majority women participation. Etsy, for example, year after year, they have 85% of their sellers are all women. And actually the IRS came out with our own study

of the Geek Economy recently. And they found that since 2001, we've seen greater growth in women participating in the Gui economy more so than men. I think it's pretty telling. And I get the question is, you know, why do we see women participating in the Gui economy or as independent workers more so than men. And a lot of the research on this question shows that women actually value flexibility to a greater extent than do men, and particularly flexibility and structuring their days. For some women, this is crucial for those who are primary caregivers and their households, for example. So that's kind of why we're seeing more growth of women participating

in the economy. It's again for this concept of and this motivation of flexibility and that they value flexibility more so than men. By the way, just some interesting new data from Fiverr, as well, they actually found that women are making more than men on Fiverr. They're earning roughly 3% more per project basis than men. That female freelancers are also receiving more work than men, also on fiber. So I think it's gonna be a really interesting

and important aspects of the gig economy is to focus on women, freelancers, and women independent workers. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for breaking that down. I love hearing all of these different stats. Thank you so much for that contribution. Okay I love hearing all of these different stats. Thank you so much for that contribution. Okay, so we're going to continue the conversation along and I want to talk about the challenges of outsourcing. So we were just talking about some of the reasons why you should outsource and when you should outsource.

But what are some of the challenges that either you guys have faced personally when outsourcing or some of the challenges that you've heard from other buyers when they're outsourcing. Why don't we start with Maddie? And then anybody who wants to try and just flash your mic and we can make it an ongoing conversation. Yeah, so I would say when I first decided to build my business into being more than just me,

nowadays it's a content agency, not just me creating, writing projects for clients. One of the biggest challenges was standardization of the final document that I would send to clients. So things like having process documentation is great. In my particular line of work, I would say creating a style guide was really like earth changing for me.

So nowadays the blog Smith has this living document. It's 16 pages long, so it's a little bit intense. It's based off of AP style, but adapted to the things that we've identified are important in terms of formatting and readability and how to include visuals and things like that. And that's empowered me to be able to bring on more writers, to also bring on more editors, since we're all on the same page by using the shared document. And I would recommend, even if it's not a style guide, having some sort of documentation that you can reference for repeatable tasks

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And like I said, it's one of my favorite things to do every day is check my Shopify dashboard. It is a rush of dopamine to see all those blinking lights around the world showing me where everybody is logging on on the site. I love it. I highly recommend it. Shopify is a platform that I use every single day and it can take your business to the next level. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com.sash.Profiting. Again, go to Shopify.com.sash.Profiting. All lowercase to take your business to the next level today. Again, that Shopify.com Sush Profiting Shopify.com Sush Profiting all lower case. This is possibility powered by Shopify. I love that. I think that's really important to

make sure you have clear processes and kind of the expectation is kind of laid out right from the beginning and what the process should be. I think that's really important. Anybody else on stage want to talk about some of the challenges that they faced with outsourcing and maybe how to overcome them? Go ahead, Donald. Jump in. Yeah. For me, I am really good at certain things and then really not good at a lot of things.

And it's incredible how so many people are ashamed to admit that, but I am the first to say that there are certain things that I'm really not great at. And one of them is communicating within my team. I struggle with it not because of a lack of wanting to. It's because I'm so working in my business. I'm so in the moment and so present that sometimes I take tasks on myself or at least I used to, I should say.

This was all kind of my previous world. Like I'll just take things on myself or at least I used to. I should say this was all kind of my previous world. I'll just take things on myself because I'd rather just get it done. Just get it done rather than asking someone how to do it or telling them how to do it and doing writing a full SOP or going through an entire list of things. I'm like, I got it, I got it. Then it wouldn't be done as well as it could. So getting over that fear of, basically what I needed to do and what I still have to do is take that step back, take that step back to figure out exactly

kind of what I need to, you know, how I can delegate and not give up control, but delegate to the people that I know can do things better than me and trust in that. So, you know, we have a weekly meeting. We have a weekly meeting that we do via Zoom. I do it with my OBM, my online business manager, and then if my other team members can join, that would be great, but if not, it's just me and my online business manager,

and then she relays the information, she uses ClickUp as a way to communicate. We have a Slack channel that we're in all day and it's definitely helped. But that communication and just making sure everyone's on the same page and knows what they have to do, that's something I'm constantly working on. And that would be like the hardest part about having a virtual team from people, you know, people are all over the place all over the country. I think that's so true, Donna.

And I love that. We use ClickUp and Slack at YAP Media as well. Those are two amazing tools. Tim or Joey, anything to add in terms of some of the challenges with outsourcing that we need to consider and how we can overcome them. Let's go to Tim. Yeah, no, great question, Holly.

And great commentary, Dana. I truly believe the biggest thing that you want to avoid when it comes to outsourcing is mistreating the people that you're working with. And what I mean by that is I think a lot of people often see outsourcing as an opportunity to find someone and pay them a lower wage because you don't, you're being really through going on a budget.

So you want to pay people in different countries or even in the United States. Let's say a lower wage or a fair wage to do like a big project. And I think that's actually really the wrong mindset to take what you think of outsourcing and working with people who are outside of your company. And I think you actually have to do a lot as a leader and as whether you're the chief operator or you're just a founder, right? You have an operator, you have to really set the tone on how do we work with outside partners

who are free glancers because we should treat them the same way that we treat the people within our company, right? They're not necessarily just because you're working with someone that is in Somalia or Nigeria, places that have a lower currency doesn't mean that we have to treat them less than. And that's something that even I, I'm really mindful of as the leader of God

in terms of we always hire freelancers and we actually bring them in, you know, on the project as if they were a part of our team. Because very well we might consider hiring them in the future. So that's something that I think leaders really need to be mindful of. I totally agree. From the start with YAP media, I had a lot of part-time workers who then I hired ended up hiring them full-time. I also think that the gig economy can be a path to full-time work in some ways and it's kind of like giving people a taste of what you can do and a lot of the times will end up hiring you full-time, which is literally what happened to like 20 people on my team who work

overseas for me. And we brought them into our Slack channel, we made them a part of the team, we invited them to team meetings, we treated them like part of the family. And I think that really helps with motivation and making people understand goals and making people feel more tied to their work. So I think all of that in terms of culture that you mentioned, Tim, is super important.

I definitely agree. So a lot of the times when we think of independent contractors, we think that it's all like junior level talent, right? We often think of lower level talent, admin tasks. But in my opinion, I think the future of company leadership is fractional. And a lot of people might not know this term fractional leadership, but it's becoming more of a buzz word. And so I'd love if somebody could break that down for us.

Maybe Tim, if you want to break down what fractional leadership is, that would be awesome. Yeah, no, this fractional leadership, a lot of people have been sharing this online. And it's been a common buzz word now in the B2B space and just in the future of work space as a whole. But what it fundamentally means for those who are just learning about it is this idea that you can hire part-time operators. So you can hire a part-time CEO for your business as some have in this call already, such as like a business manager or a chief operator, you can even potentially hire a part-time founder. And it's really true because this reality is that

you don't necessarily need to have someone that is living in the business every single day in order for your business to be successful. And that's because there's such a proliferation of SaaS tools and to a degree freelancers that can work on your business for you, and you can be in Cabo just chilling literally. And you know, that's just the time and day that we're living in.

So this idea of fractional leadership means that you can literally have people operating your company who are representative of the brand, the mission, and you're essentially just creating that operational structure so they can succeed. And they can own their own companies on the side and do all of these things. And this is really powerful because there's actually a young lady that owns a business, her business is called House of Wise. She's a founder of that business and she also works for a really popular startup on Twitter called Teal. And she's a fractional leader at Teal, but also a full-time founder for her business called House of Wise.

And I'm sure some of you have probably heard it before. And that's essentially fractional leadership, the fact that you don't necessarily have to work for one company and only be tied to that one company. And I think that's gonna be a huge trend. And it's a powerful trend because what it does it changes the way we look at organizations. Oh my gosh, I love that breakdown and just to kind of drill it home for everyone.

There's lots of positions like fractional CMO, fractional CFO, and basically it's like you get to have a seasoned CMO or CFO who works for you, who's worked up probably lots of huge companies and has tons of experience, like decades of experience, but instead of hiring them full time, you can hire them like two days a week, and they can represent you and do all the tasks that you need. And it's basically a way to kind of scale with some professional talent, some top level talent, without needing to pay the salary of a sea level executive. So that's stuff that we're doing at YAP Media. We've got a fractional CFO, for example,

and it really helps us as we're trying to build this company. This episode of YAP is sponsored by Ole Body. Guys, most of us are still working from home and not yet back at the office. And while it's nice to have all this flexibility with our schedules, it can wreak havoc on our routines. And in such uncertain times, it's more important than ever to create healthy routines. And that's why I think you shouldn't be skipping your morning shower.

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find Olay soothing body wash with vitamin B3 complex and oat extract and other a lay body care products in the store or online. Olay body, fearless in my skin. This episode of YAP is sponsored by Fiverr. Imagine if you had 8 days and a week. Another 24 hours. A whole entire day. That would feel like a superpower, a secret weapon. With an extra 24 hours you could focus on a new revenue stream. You could come up with

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Even before the podcast, way before Yap, I was using Fiverr and once I started my podcast, Fiverr was my first place to get all my podcast artwork done. My first logo for Yap was done on Fiverr and once I started my podcast Fiverr was my first place to get all my podcast artwork done My first logo for gap was done on Fiverr my first podcast cover for gap was done on Fiverr and all those cartoons You see in my episode artwork those really cool illustrations of me and my guests That's all done on Fiverr by the same freelancer. I've been using since day one in fact I have over 77 transactions on Fiverr and it's my go-to spot for illustrations, animations,

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and receive 10% off your first order by using my code Clubhouse21. Find all the digital services you need in one place at FIVER.com with Code Clubhouse21. Again, that's Fiverr.com with Code Clubhouse21. Okay, we're starting to bring some folks up here for questions. I'd love to throw it to some of the people who have raised their hand and come on stage Roger. My good friend Roger, I would love to hear if you have a question for the panel about this topic that you think would be relevant for the audience. Thank you so much, Hala. I just have to give you a compliment when I interviewed you

on my podcast a few months back. We had an offline discussion afterwards and you really impressed the fact on me that in order to expand I needed to start looking at these things, everything that you're talking about today. And you know, I'm happy to report that I think it's been three or four months later. I have been using a lot of these services including VA's including Fiverr and I am really seeing a difference in my business. So I work full-time still. So I'm, you know, still in that place where I'm doing my side hustle,

but I'm also working full-time. And, you know, I guess the question is for the panel, when do you know how to turn the gas pedal on pedal to the metal sort of speak versus, you know, just kind of coasting month to month. Like I feel like I'm ready to go all in, but still a little hesitant. Does that make sense? Yeah, let's go to Donna. Hey, Roger. So I have a lot of people that I work with, a lot of clients that feel the same way. And the way that I always kind of position it is,

when you know, you know, like I feel like, think about a breakup, right? When you, I don't know, if you've gone through this, I'm sure most of us have, where there's just, you know, an experience, it's like, ah, that wasn't great. And then the next one, you're like, ooh, that, that makes you wonder. And then after a certain amount of time,

you're like, this isn't the one. This isn't the one for me. I'm going to break up. And I look at it like that too. I look at it like that too when it comes to the idea of outsourcing when it comes to my business. Because I feel like when you feel it inside, when you know like there's something that's missing.

I'm dropping the ball for me. The first time I hired a VA was because I literally couldn't, I couldn't keep it all together. I couldn't keep it all together. I kept messing up and kept overbooking. And then I knew at that point that I had no other choice. And I think what happens is people are so here to invest in additional help or outsource because they're maybe not

making as much money in the moment. But I can guarantee you that if you finally start to actually put that like shell out the cash and invest and do that scary thing, I have yet to see it work where it doesn't come back double tenfold. So I would highly suggest if you're on the fence try it and get someone that's not a full-time person or a long term. You know do a trial with someone and kind of see how it works and see how your business changes. I really like that. Thank you. Thank you so much.

I think this is such a great question, Roger. I'm going to throw it to Tim next, but I do want to add on to what Donna said. I totally agree. I think that sometimes what you can do is is hire a bunch of freelancers at one time and kind of see who does the best job and then you can lean in and give more projects and more hours to the person who did the best work. And so that's typically what I do. And I'm looking, for example, if I need a video editing project or if I need somebody

to part-time work for me for videos, I would hire like like in the past, before I had a marketing agency and hired people full-time like, out-of-date. I used to hire like two, three people and have them work, you know, 10 hours a week for me and then see, okay, this person is really doing a great job. I'm just gonna have them work 20 hours a week for me instead. And so I used to do a lot of those experiments to kind of see who would really fit the culture of my team.

Tim, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this too. Yeah, y'all are preaching on this live, man. It's really profitable for everyone to say. You know, Roger, would it say that the best time to go all in on that side business that you're working on is one, when you're achieving monthly revenue that sustains you as well as maybe your families or dependents, don't know if you have a family.

But it's when you start to realize that, you know, you're actually like the value proposition of your business whether it's a software business or a service-based business, that you have validated that thing. That people are willing to actually pay really hard earned cash for it. And that's a big feeling.

When you feel like that, you should go all in. Because if you have one person, just one, it doesn't have to be 10. Just one person that says, hey, yeah, I'll pay you for this, Roger. That means you can find at least 10 more, or maybe a billion people. And that is actually a really powerful feeling. But it's just a matter of how do you approach marketing

and building the business and sustaining it, right? And a lot of things entrepreneurs don't often realize that anyone can create a business. I can, anyone has an idea. We all have ideas, but a lot of people don't know how to scale a business, which is a whole different ballgame, and it really requires time and consistency. But Roger, if you have one customer now, and you know, you feel as if you're comfortable with the amount of monthly revenue you have coming in, go ahead and take that leap and go a limb on it.

But you, Sri Lanss, that's an opportunity to scale your capacity, scale your operations, so you don't always have to be always in your business every single day. And I think that's the best way to use freelance. And I think just something else to add there as a podcaster, you can get really stuck in the hamster wheel of just recording an episode, putting it out, making sure you promote it, and just being in that hamster wheel and not being able to get out of it and see, how can I monetize this? Roger, you're growing a big following on LinkedIn now.

Your podcast is gaining a brand. And if you're always stuck in the day today, you're never going to be able to step back and think about how can I really monetize this and think of new revenue streams. So as I hire talent for my team, both in-house and outsourcing, I'm always trying to think about how can I spend more time

on revenue generating opportunities that nobody else can really think about or has the expertise to think about. And how can I move the needle forward for my company and keep creating new ideas that then we can replicate through in-house talent and outsourcing? My job is always, how do I create something new? How do I create something new? I think that when you're stuck in the hamster wheel of day-to-day execution,

you'll never get to that point. I think that you've got to bite the bullet and take a little bit of a risk there, in my opinion. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Roger. Always appreciate your contribution. I'm going to move it along to our next question. And that is from Satya Kham. So welcome to the stage, Satya Kham.

And how can we help you today? Yeah, that name is even difficult by Indian style. You just can call me Satya, SITYA. And yes, I resonate with so many people out here right now. I've been listening to you as well as Dhanah and Tim, especially I love the conversation. And my question is, what Tim raised of the which touched me is the fair charges for people from India, especially the programmer communities I lead.

So one of my nonprofit organizations, one of the things I do is try to tease those values in the system and also tease them how to negotiate when they talk to customers. That's all I have to say for now and great going. Thank you for your time and I'll follow and try to learn a lot from all of you. Thank you so much, Satya, for pointing that out. And I think that one of the things I want to even double down on with that is that there's this perception, I think in the US, often that, you know, there's often like, make America great that, you know, we should, you know, offer shenanigans. And you know, there's a reality behind that. But the thing is, you know, outsourcing and tapping into tenant, talent, internationally, is actually a great way to expand operation of the, and actually get additional perspective and creativity

into your company while also treating people, you know, overseas with respect. And I think I've often been very surprised by, when you talk to some leaders at even top companies, think about the best companies in the world. They often see outsourcing as, they see outsourcing as a unique advantage, but what they don't often do operationally is ensure that everyone within their company treats

people that are contractors fairly. And I've actually seen this, like at top companies and it's often because of this perception thing. And I think it's really important that us as leaders on this call, we're very mindful of that within our organization that we don't, we like just because people you're contracting talent overseas

or domestically doesn't mean that there are any less than in terms of what they bring to the table and their value to your company. I think that's really, really important for me, just a humanity standpoint. Great point. Thank you so much for that awesome question and for all of your kind words. We really appreciate you coming on the stage here. I do want to just give a quick shout out to our sponsor Fiverr.

If you guys haven't heard of Fiverr, they are a marketplace where you can basically hire freelancers to outsource many different parts of your business, whether that's graphic design, whether that's social media, whether that's transcriptions, video editing, photography, you name it. They've got freelancers for you. So if you guys are new to Fiverr, check that out, Fiverr.com and use code influencer 21 for 10% off your first order. Okay, so we are talking about outsourcing for your business. I do want to switch gears and talk about

how do we thrive as a gig worker? And Maddie, I know that you've made over $10,000 on Fiverr specifically. And so I'd love to hear from you, like what are your best practices as a standing out, as a gig worker in this sea of amazing talent out there? Absolutely, yeah. So I think it starts by being a student of the platform

and really getting to know how it works, what features there are, what different fields you can customize to show your personality and your experience and all those things. So things like, you know, taking the time to fill out your bio in a way that's appealing and that highlights your expertise, taking the time to add a lot of details to the gig specifically.

I would say that something that helped me a lot while I was still on Fiverr was going through my messages with different customers and seeing what questions they asked. And then Fiverr actually has a little Q&A section where you can proactively answer those questions. And doing that helped to save me from the time that it takes to answer those people by just putting it out there. And in a lot of cases, people would just go ahead and place an order without talking to me because I had already given them all the information

that they needed to make a decision. That's other things like I would recommend if you're just getting started on the platform or even if you've been on there for a while but haven't gotten the traction that you want. Looking at other people's gigs, whatever it is that you're wanting to offer, see how people are offering that already, how they are offering different packages, maybe different

gig extras, and I guess another just side note is to think of ways that you could productize your service. So, to give an example, when I was offering writing services, bog writing services, I would offer packages by word count. I would kind of suggest what each package was for, like a news update versus something that could work as SEO content, for example. And different extras they could buy are things like

more word count, or maybe custom graphics, or different things like that. Maybe they also wanted to add on social media posts so that's different ways that you can get people what they want but also quickly quote and price it out or even just allow people to self-service by those gigs without having to talk to you and that's why I love Fiverr because my past is in sales and I really didn't love it. And Fiverr, I've found, helps me to avoid a lot of the sales back and forth

because I just kind of put everything out there and people can make decisions or, you know, ask me if there are further questions. But I guess a couple other quick hits are things like have great communication. Fiverr, they determine what level you're at, which also unlocks certain amounts of gigs that you can offer in other ways that you can customize your gigs and things

like that. And even how you show up in their marketplace based on how well you communicate with your clients, even if they're not clients yet, so different scores are based on how quickly you get back to people. And so if you're going to be on Fiverr, you need to be really good at communication. And if you're not able to respond, you have to set like your out of office basically and determined. If it makes sense to check messages, you know, while that out of office is on because that's another thing. Basically, if you want to go on vacation, you either have to commit to checking or just not getting messages during that time. I would say another quick hit is like obsess

over the copy in your gig description. And if you know anything about SEO and keywords and things like that, you want to be trying to weave in different keywords in terms of what your gig is about just to make it more easy to find in fiber search. And yeah, I think those are the high level things I would recommend. I also wrote an article that

goes really in depth on how to do these things well. So if you just Google how to make money on fiber, it should be the tap result. Oh my gosh, yeah, that's how I found Maddie. I was like, oh my god, she's

brilliant. I have to have her on the panel. So thank you so much for all of those amazing actionable insights that's what we found Maddie. I was like, oh my God, she's brilliant. I have to have her on the panel. So thank you so much for all of those amazing actionable insights. That's what we love to hear on Young and Profiting Podcast. We've got some amazing folks here on the stage who have questions. So I do want to make sure that we have them ask questions.

We've got Glenn here also on stage. Welcome Glenn. He is the host of the Breakfast with Champions room on Club House. He is the biggest daily room on Clubhouse. Welcome, Glenn. Thank you. Yes. Listening in, awesome conversation. Glad to be here. Thank you, Glenn. All right. So, a sign. I see you're on this stage. What is the question that you have for the panel today?

Thank you, Hala. My question is, how will businesses scale in the gig economy? It's so great that the gig economy is here, but the great news is that it's here for everybody. People maybe work somewhere for 30 or 40 years for businesses that are trying to scale, what does their conversation now look like when they're hiring? Is it just having it on this conversation that, Eddie, you may only be here for a few years, or is it continuously kind of like just kind of assuming that you're always gonna stay there forever? Because if you're gonna scale,

you're gonna need experienced people. So trying to understand what does that start looking like? How does a future leadership team look like in a company? Is it still gonna look like a CEO, CEO, or are there roles in the dynamics gonna be different in a company. Is it still going to look like a CEO, CEO, or are there roles in the dynamics going to be different in a leadership? Just curious on what thoughts are for anybody in the panel. This is something that, you know,

kind of things are changing so much. It's exciting. And I'll kind of end on a humorous note that I always going to felt that people should get paid how much they love their jobs, right? The more you love your job, the less you should get paid, the more you hate your job, the more you should get paid how much they love their jobs, right? The more you love your job, the less you should get paid. The more you hate your job, the more you should get paid. So if you work in a company, you hate your job.

It's in the entire company's best interest to change your job role or move you to a different position. But that's pretty much it. Just kind of curious to see what your guys thoughts are. Okay. I think that was really cute what you said on the end. And actually, when I was preparing for this, I kept thinking, you know,

they should really call this the passion economy because it seems like everybody who works in the gig economy is really passionate about what they do and they do enjoy flexible work and everything like that. But I feel like it could also be called the passion economy. So who would love to answer this question? I think what Hassan is trying to ask is, what is the future of work?

Yeah, go for it. I'm sorry, hey guys, hi. Parton in the North, you may hear in the background, I've just finished a delicious Indian dinner at Chappwale in Harlem. And I just wanted to address this question because the question is, how a company's going to scale. By the way, I have a company

called Perception Camping, which is a think tank, which explores the last digital mile and all that comes along with the last digital mile. I would answer this question by saying, I don't think that companies, and I'm talking about traditional companies, have realized how to deal with scaling within the gig economy. New companies, newer companies, newer startups, of course, understand what the impact of the gig economy is. And what I mean by that is when I look for a person to come on board to help me with a particular project because I managed my company resources to my scaling according to clients So when a piece of business comes across that requires a set amount of creatives, then I scale up. That's how I recruit. Okay, I still, I still according to the project because of the gig economy.

No one who is in the gig economy wants to be stuck to a nine to five environment. We all want to come in, contribute to a project, and keep it moving. And we want to operate as independent entrepreneurs because we seek to have a diverse schedule, flexible schedule, we seek to have time. What I've found is that companies are going to adjust eventually and I'm talking about

traditional companies' versus startups and new companies. Traditional companies, it's going to take a lot of time for them to really catch up. But the good thing is this, if you approach a traditional company, you get to interact with their marketing teams, their creative teams, without having to be bogged down by the politics of the organization. You're going to come in and have a definite role that you're going to be playing within to help that company reach whatever short term goal that it may have. So the jury is out on how to scale within the gig economy, but I will say everyone wants freedom, everyone wants flexibility. And so traditional companies are going to have to adjust, newer companies and new startup

companies, especially tech companies, they understand the mindset of a gig worker and so the impact to them is no big deal, like they are just adjust. They will bring people in, do the project, see you later, on to the next. And if you do a good job, you can return and you can have continued, you can engage and continue servicing for particular projects. So I just wanted to comment a little bit on that. My name is Rob, I'm done. Thank you for allowing me to speak.

Yeah, thank you, Rob. I think that was actually a wonderful answer. So thank you for that impromptu answer, motorcycles, and all, I think we all really enjoyed it. So thank you. Anybody else want to add on here? Or shall we move to the next question? All right, let's move to the next question.

Thank you so much, Asan. Taylor, you're up next. What is your question for the panel? How can we help you today? Hey guys, thanks for doing this. I had a question I actually just today spoke with. Somebody who would be an independent contractor to maybe take over my marketing ad marketing management.

So specifically Google ads, I spend about $3,500 a month on Google ads in my business. And he's willing to take it on for 4,000 a month, but it's kind of one of those situations where he's going to take it on and completely take over and not allow me to continue to see behind the curtain and see what's kind of working and what's not on a detailed level. He's just going to relay that information to me. So I'm wondering if that's a good idea and if maybe it's not how you guys would recommend thatting and searching out someone who can help with such an integral part of our business, but something I'm having a hard time letting go of.

So just so I can understand the question and make sure everybody understands the question, you are looking to hire someone, but they're saying that they're not going to be transparent with you about what's going on behind the scenes. Can you elaborate on that? Did they say that's how they typically work? Because essentially if you're hiring them, you should be able to set the guidelines in my opinion, but I'd love to hear like a little bit more context.

Yeah, thanks for asking. So my question is, he is offering to take over our Google ads management, but he wants to kind of keep things as trade secrets because he doesn't want to be in my instructor to teach me how to do it. He wants to sell me a service month to month and make me rely on him. So he wants to do a six month contract and at the end of that, he owns all the copy, he owns all the ads. And so in that process, I'm paying him directly the $4,000 a month instead of me paying Google $3,500 and paying him a $500, you know, management fee. Does that make sense? Totally, guys.

I would run away, Taylor. Walk away. I would run away. Go ahead, Donna. What is Donna and Glenn thinking about this? I'm dining here with Glenn has to say, but I think everyone's fighting sense is just went up, right? Glenn, go ahead. I'd love to hear what you have to say, but I think everyone's spidey sense is just went up, right? Blend go ahead. I'd love to hear what you have to say. Yeah, you just told the 100% you want to run away from a situation like that. It should be literally the exact opposite, a great company that's going to help you as

far as SEO, SEO, search all of those things. A great company will actually come to you and say, hey, you keep your spend that way. You can see exactly where the spend is going. The only thing that we want is the our fee, other than that, my company that helps me with mine, it's the exact opposite of what you just presented. I pay them a fee, all of our ads spend, and search, and all of that stuff comes out of my account.

I can see every transaction. I can see exactly what it's going to. And they do. They educate me consistently on what they're doing, why we're doing it, what the strategy is, all of those things. And so you want a company that is going to be incredibly transparent, that is going to work with you to educate you, to help you get stronger, and help you get better. Because the great company understands that if they educate their customer, you're not going to leave them, you're going to be more loyal to them because they do teach you and they're not behind cloak and mirrors. So I would run from that company as fast as you may possible and find someone that presents exact opposite of what you just said.

100% Donna, did you have anything to add there? Yeah, I mean the way I look at it, I totally agree with what Glenn said and I don't hire a Google ads manager so I don't have specific information on that position. However, I Know intuition in our businesses and in our life and the fact that you are on this stage asking that question Taylor It's because there was something in you that said hmm Is this right? This feels a little bit weird. And when something feels a little bit weird, you could do two things. You could go after and search reviews and referrals because that's something I would definitely

do and make sure they're legit or just trust your gut and don't do it. Like I have never gone against what my gut says and regretted it. So I think we have to trust our gut a lot more in our businesses because there are little babies. So yeah, that helps. I completely agree and just so that you know Taylor, I actually do a lot of media buying for my clients and just like everybody else said, everything with the vendor is client to vendor. I just help coordinate it. And then I charge everybody a management fee. Everything is super transparent. I tell everybody all my secrets,

I am not worried about anybody trying to copy my services because I know that nobody can do it better. And I know that nobody's gonna keep innovating and experimenting the way that I do. And so anybody who's really confident in their abilities isn't gonna be so anti-transparent. I don't know what word to call it. So I definitely think that you should probably find somebody

who's gonna be more transparent, who's gonna help you evolve your business and move things forward rather than try to hold you hostage which is what it sounds like he's trying to do. So I think we have reached a consensus for you. Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, and this is Robert. Sure, sure, what's going on? Hopefully you're in a quiet place, though.

This is recorded for a podcast. Okay, I would say this. I would say first and foremost, the most important thing that we as digital people in the social media age have is our integrity, our transparency, because we are looking at a person's digital footprint. And we look at a person's digital footprint that will help us determine whether or not we should put value into what they're offering. And certainly anyone who wants to monopolize information isn't a personal abyssance that

we want to deal with because we have to share information with paying for a service and it should be transparent. If it's not transparent, walk away. So I'm just adding to the consensus that was echoed earlier. My name is Robert. I'm just speaking. Thank you. Awesome.

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off an annual membership masterclass.com slash profiting. OK, so Taylor, hopefully we help to answer your question. I do want to just mention that this event is sponsored by Fiverr with Fiverr. All the freelancers you could ever need are right at your fingertips. If you guys want 10% off your first order, use the code Influencer21. With that, we're going to continue along with the Q&A. And I've got a couple more questions for the panel as well.

But I do want to see what question Melissa has. Melissa is an actress and a podcaster. Also, my friend and I would love to hear what question you have that's relevant for the audience today. Hi, Hala, thanks for having me and I'm so glad to see some of my favorite on here, like Donna and Glenn and Mark. So excited to be on the stage with you guys. I have a question more for Maddie.

As I'm a big fiber user, I love it. I can't say I've had a great success every time, but I would say I have more successes than not. You know, as a customer, what would be our best practices? How can we make your job a little bit easier or make it more effective for you to perform your best work? Those are my two cents. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for the question. I think for me, it was always easier for me to quickly get back to somebody who had a question if they could give me kind of a brief of what they were looking for. So sometimes people would message me and it would just be very vague.

And so that would kind of slow me down from getting people an answer or even, you know, being able to suggest a package. So for me, like, let's just assume it's a writing task, knowing who the end client is, what length of an article they're looking for, who's the customer that we're trying to appeal to. So almost taking an intake process and just breaking it down to those various levels

of the most important information, anything that you would need to get that job done, assume that somebody needs all that, and then maybe even a little bit more. So the more information you can give up front, the easier it will be to move forward with someone. Awesome. Hopefully that was helpful, Melissa. Did that help answer your question? It sure did. Thanks, Holly. Amazing. Okay, guys, I have a couple more questions for the panel and then we're going to go ahead and finish up the Q&A, but I did want to ask some of our panelists some specific questions. So I want to talk about the challenges when it comes to gig work. So this is still a new space. There's lots of laws still forming that are going to be protecting workers' rights and also to protect companies. So I'd love to hear some of the key challenges

of the gig economy and how you think it should improve for the future. So why don't we go over to Leah? We haven't heard from you in a while. I know you've done a lot of research on the topic. What are some of the challenges that people face in the gig economy and some of the hot topics that are going on right now?

Thanks, Ellen. Great question. The biggest challenge is that, so independent gig economy workers are legally classified as independent contractors. And so they're divorced from employment-based protections, like sick leave, paid leave, health insurance, even minimum wage and overtime regulations.

So it becomes a really big public policy challenge, especially if we're thinking about like growth of the gig economy. So as more and more and more people join the gig economy and become independent workers, we're going to see like this be a huge public policy issue where we have, you know, a growing workforce that's no longer under employmentbased protections. And I've been working on kind of pushing this concept forward of portable benefit solutions. And the idea is that to build a system of benefits that are not tied to employer that are shared, that are flexible, and that can move from wherever, you know, whatever job you're willing to take.

And so I really, I think it's also a big future of work point as well, like at some point in the future with growing adoption of automation and the workplace, some number of people might become unemployed. And again, it's a huge problem if all of our benefits of health insurance and everything is tied to employment, we're getting like a growing workforce that is again outside of employment-based laws, if that makes sense. So I think it's really important to think about, be it more innovative and creative

and thinking about bigger public policy issues, like decoupling benefits from employment and moving towards like portable benefit solutions. Ooh, I've never heard of that. Portable benefit solution. I love that. So Maddie, I know that some people argue that there's ethical issues with outsourcing. And in my opinion, I totally that. So, Maddie, I know that some people argue that there's ethical issues with outsourcing.

And in my opinion, I totally disagree. I feel like the gig economy levels the playing field for everyone. And in fact, my workers, who most of them started as part-time gig workers for my company and now are employed full-time, they're so grateful for the opportunities that I was able to provide them. And they get paid more for me than they would in their home country. And so I don't really buy that, but I'd love to hear from your perspective. I know that you've been a buyer, you've been a seller, you've been a gig worker. How do you feel about the ethical issues that people talk about? Yeah, I think it's only an ethical issue if you're being an unethical person

in the way that you hire and work with gig workers. So yeah, I mean, it's a matter of setting like a base price that makes sense for everyone. I always aim to go well over what the going rate is if I'm hiring someone from a developing market because I want to give them an incentive to stick around. And like you, I have a lot of people on my team that are very grateful for the work that they're doing with me because I'm empowering them to do the types of things that they really

like doing and putting my trust in them that, you know, they're going to do a good job and not trying to micromanage them. But I think the ways that things like Fiverr or the good economy in general, level the playing field are things like the fact that you get to set your rate instead of just accepting what a company offers you. Even if you have some leverage to negotiate that,

there's a certain range that they're going to accept and then maybe move on to the next person. So somebody is reaching out to you and wanting your help, then you're well within your right to set whatever rate makes sense for you to take on that project and feel good about it. And I think on that note, it's also being able to say no to clients and projects that you really are not feeling

that don't make you happy. I think you've mentioned it earlier, like the passion economy. That's why probably everyone here does what they do. It's because it's something that makes them happy and makes them feel fulfilled at the end of the day. And then I think like the last thing that's worth mentioning, especially now,

during the pandemic is having the flexibility to lead a remote life, maybe not necessarily because you wanna travel the world, although that's certainly a perk as well But maybe you or somebody that you live with has some sort of underlying health condition We're you know having and in person jobs somewhere could put you or your family your loved ones at risk And so what a beautiful age we live in where people have that choice Assuming that they want to take it

and assuming that they can create a space for themselves, where they stand out in whatever field it is that they represent, that they can have that choice, that it's not an in-person job or don't make money. I think those are really, really incredible points. I wanna call out a couple comments, a couple of stats. First of all, I think one person's flexible working environment is another person's exploitation of labor.

I feel like it just depends what you want. If you want a flexible working schedule, then gig workers for you. If you don't believe in that, then maybe it's not for you. And according to a McKinsey study, people who do independent work by choice and have it as their primary source of income, report greater satisfaction with their work than traditional workers. And also, they found out that people working out

of necessity, really, they're not really picking their job, they're just doing it because it pays the bills, they have the same level of dissatisfaction in their work, whether they have a traditional job or work in the gig economy. So the workers are actually really happy. So it goes to show what's going on there. Okay, we're gonna move along with the Q&A.

We have, will Rami Boyo? How can we help you today? What is your question for the panel? Oh, great. I don't have a question because someone could talk about it, trying to get an idea about what the digital tools that can help you transit your team or scale your team, your gig work, that includes gig workers and gig employers outside Slack. So I know't slack is perfect for team view data

and facilitation, but do you have other tools that you use to improve productivity in what you do? So I just like to hear some of these digital tools and how it's helping your team. Sure, so digital tools, Donna, I'm sure you know a lot of digital tools in the gig economy. Do you wanna chip in on this one or who wants to answer this one? So digital tools and what sense do you think you could reframe the question?

And is it in content creation? If that's what you mean, or what are you talking about specifically? Yes, so in the overall productivity of teams. So you got it. Got it. That's all I needed. Got it. Productivity of teams. Slack is what my team uses to connect with each other. We use ClickUp, which is an amazing project management tool. It's similar to Asana or Trello, but I don't run either. I mean, I do Slack very comfortably.

ClickUp is my online business manager kind of runs that for us. Between all of us, we are on ClickUp, we're on Slack. And then honestly, we connect through Google Docs and Google Drive, like that's how we send our stuff back and forth if we're working on a document. And that's pretty much it. That's essentially what we use in our team.

And I have a team of about, there's about eight of us that are kind of freelancers that work under me. So yeah, I hope that helps. Awesome, great question. Thank you so much for your contribution. All right, so my last question for the panel tonight, I'm gonna kick it off with Mr. Fe Future of Work here. I'd love to hear what you think, the future of the gig economy, the future of work. What do you think that's going to

look like, Tim? Hey, Oliver, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure being on this podcast, with all of these amazing people. And questions, my belief is that, you know, what the future will look like is, in present day, what I see happening now is how, whether it be with content, media distribution platforms like a clubhouse or a Twitter, and just, you know, the growth of platforms like Fiverr, we're going to only continue to see more people going to work for themselves or really forming collectives that they can work with, whether be creative collectives, you know, merging businesses with other entities and other people, like I think because there's so much tools,

whether we SaaS tools or distribution platforms, like a clubhouse, that we're only going to continue to see the rise of the independent worker. And I think that's going to really change a lot of the societal structures we have, such as people are just going to be building online businesses and living at home. How will that change our cities? That's something that we can all consider.

I think that's going to be a constant as we see the future of work developing. I think those are really great points. Leah or Maddie or Adana, anybody else have any thoughts about what the future of work developing. I think those are really great points. Leah or Maddie or Donna, anybody else have any thoughts about what the future of the gig economy or the future of work is going to look like? I would say, you know, just the idea that we are evolving as an economy, as an, you know, as entrepreneurs, work is so different than it was a few years ago. Even just being here on Clubhouse, I know that there's a social media manager that I've hired

for a little job here and there. She is 19 years old and using Clubhouse to grow her business phenomenally. I just think that this is the way to do it. It's getting out there and just showing up and connecting with others and working with many, many entrepreneurs or many people at one time and hiring, outsourcing. Like this is, there's no longer, I'm so excited, I never have to go and sit in a corporate office again. We are all kind of doing our own thing,

especially for your own clubhouse, so many of us, run our own businesses and we're just not good at everything. Our zone of genius is our zone of genius and we need to outsource. So, love in the conversation, things for having Nutella. Thank you so much, Donna. All right, guys, so this concludes our gap live session on the gig economy and the future of work.

Thank you so much to all of my panelists, Maddie, Joey, Donna, Leah, Tim, Glenn. Everybody who joined us here on stage, all the questions, Roger, Melissa, thank you, everybody for contributing to this conversation. If you guys want a replay of this episode, just DM me the word replay. We covered a lot of ground. You can check that out on Young and Profiting Podcast. Make sure you follow everybody who participated here on stage,

follow them on Club House, follow them on Instagram. And again, big thank you to our sponsor Fiverr. If you guys want 10% off your first order, use that code InfluenceR21, support the room. And thank you guys so much. We'll see you again next week. I actually am interviewing Steven Kotler on Flow. It's going to be an amazing session.

Steven Kotler, he's a world-renowned bestseller. He talks all about how to get into flow, how to increase your productivity. It's gonna be an amazing session. The week after that, I'm interviewing Mark Randolph and Yancy Strickler. Those are the founders of Netflix and Kickstarter respectively. So lots of really great sessions coming up.

Make sure you're here every Tuesday at 8 p.m. Eastern. Thank you again to my panelists and with that have a great night. This is Hala and friends signing off. Are you looking for ways to be happier healthier, more productive and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project and every week we share ideas and practical solutions on the happier with Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits.

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