Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - YAPLive: The Power of Body Language with Mark Bowden, Chase Hughes, Blanca Cobb, and Amilya Antonetti | Cut Version

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

Have you ever walked into a room and immediately felt uncomfortable? Or felt entirely at ease with a complete stranger? If so, you’re likely picking up these vibes from non-verbal cues. In this episode, Hala talks with human behavior experts Mark Bowden, Chase Hughes, Blanca Cobb, and Amilya Antonetti about how we can use our body language to give off a good first impression, counter measuring the reptilian brain response, how to gain authority with non-verbal cues, how to detect deception, and so much more.  Topics Include: - Defining the reptilian brain - The “Triad Brain System”  - Using countermeasures to control our reptilian brain  - Giving a good impress using body language  - Utilizing body language at a networking event  - Why does the angle of your body matter? - Best tips for a good impression  - Milgrim Experiment and how powerful authority can be  - Whitecoat syndrome - How the mammalian brain contributes to authority  - How to hack authority and trigger an obedient response  - What qualities or traits can kill our authority? - How to avoid manipulation - Detecting deception  - Why deception is an important part of being human - Two tactics to detect deception - And other topics… Chase Hughes is the CEO of Applied Behavior Research. Chase now teaches interrogation, sales, influence, and persuasion. He is the author of the #1 bestselling book on behavior profiling, persuasion, and influence, The Ellipsis Manual.  Mark Bowden is a world-renowned body language expert, keynote speaker, and bestselling author. Mark is the founder of TRUTHPLANE®, a communication training company. As a body language expert, he appears regularly on CNN, CBS, and Global News, and he is frequently quoted in The Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, and GQ Magazine. Blanca Cobb is a body language expert, keynote speaker, and TV personality. Blanca trains people in body language and deception detecting. She is frequently featured on CNN, the Today Show, and more.  Amilya Antonetti is the creator and CEO of Genius Key, and one of the most sought-after human behaviorist and conflict resolution experts in the world. She has been twice nominated for the Ernst & Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year award. Sponsored By: Athletic Greens - Visit athleticgreens.com/YAP and get FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase Shopify - Go to shopify.com/profiting, for a FREE fourteen-day trial and get full access to Shopify’s entire suite of features WRKOUT - Visit wrkout.com/yap to book a FREE Session with a world-class trainer and get 30% off your first TWO MONTHS with code YAP Grin.co - Find out how GRIN can help you grow your brand. Watch the demo at GRIN.co Decision Analyst - Sign up for free today at acop.com/yap and begin your next side-hustle 99designs by Vista - Head to 99designs.com/YAP to learn more and get $30 off your first design contest! Resources Mentioned:  Original Episode: #YAPLive: Hacking Human Behavior on Clubhouse with Mark Bowden, Chase Hughes, Blanca Cobb and Amilya Antonetti: https://youngandprofiting.podbean.com/e/yaplive-hacking-human-behavior-on-clubhouse/  #YAPClassic: Hacking Human Behavior To Gain Influence with Chase Hughes: https://youngandprofiting.podbean.com/e/yapclassics-hacking-human-behavior-to-gain-influence-with-chase-hughes/  Chase’s Website: https://www.chasehughes.com/  Chase’s Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B06VW1H89K  The Importance Of Being Inauthentic: Mark Bowden at TEDxToronto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zpf8H_Dd40  Mark’s Books: https://www.amazon.com/Mark-Bowden/e/B0031H04AK  Mark’s Website: https://truthplane.com/  Blanca’s Website: https://blancacobb.com/  Amilya’s Website: https://amilya.com/  Connect with Young and Profiting: YAP’s Instagram: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting   Hala’s Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/   Hala’s Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala   Website: www.youngandprofiting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Source. Taxes and other fee still apply. You're listening to YAP, Young and Profiting Podcast. A place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halla Taha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday

life, no matter your age, profession or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of XFBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity,

had to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast. Body language and nonverbal cues play a huge role in how we're perceived and how we judge others. For example, if you're applying for a job and your arms are crossed, the interviewer might assume that you're defensive or closed

off. But if you're sitting up tall and relaxed, you're more likely to come off as confident and self-assured. Our brains are hardwired to make assumptions based on this visual form of communication, and we can use this knowledge to our advantage. If there's one thing I'm sure we can all agree on, it's how crucial communication is in every aspect of life. By understanding how to use it and how to read body language, your communication can improve tenfold. In this episode, I talk with human behavior experts who share how we can hack our nonverbal cues to make great

first impressions, gain authority, and so much more. I'm joined by Chase Hughes, the founder of Applied Behavior Research and Author of the bestselling book, The Ellipsis Manual. Mark Bowden, the number one body language expert, and founder of Truth Plane. Blanca Cobb, a TV personality and body language and deception trainer, and lastly, Amelia Antonetti, one of the most sought-after human behavior and conflict resolution experts in the world. We cover a lot of ground in this episode. We discussed overriding the reptilian brain, body language tips for making a great first impression, detecting deception, and so much more.

This is a highlight episode from a clubhouse live I hosted back in February of 2021, so if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to scroll back in our archives to check that one out. And all of our content here at YAP is evergreen. So I encourage all of you guys listening in to go back to episodes you may have missed, especially if you're a new listener. I've also had some of the panelists on the show before one-on-one like Chase Hughes and Mark Bowden. Go check those episodes out if you enjoyed them in this panel and I'll include all those links in the show notes. If you're wondering how to gain influence, be more authoritative and make better first impressions episodes out if you enjoyed them in this panel, and I'll include all those links in the show notes. If you're wondering how to gain influence,

be more authoritative, and make better first impressions, this is one episode you'll wanna check out. So the first question is for Mark. When I have researched human behavior, something that comes up time and time again, especially when first looking into the topic, is our reptilian brain. And so I want to understand and want everybody listening today

to understand what our reptilian brain is, and why do we need to dampen its influence? Yeah, great question. OK, so the reptilian brain, look, the reptilian brain is a metaphor. You don't actually have a reptilian brain. It's an idea that we've come up with to help you understand the processing that your mind often does. So we often say that you have kind of three black

brains or what we call the trium brain system which is you've got this very old reptilian brain, it's about 500 million years old, it's the thing that looks after your safety, looks after your temperature, it tells you when you're hungry, it has some of those sexual urges as well, and it's coding system. Again, that's a bit of a metaphor. Your brain isn't a computer, it's not anything like a computer really, but it's coding system goes right back to the earliest reptiles, the dinosaur essentially. Now on top of that, you've got what we call the paleo mammalian brain.

It's the social brain that you have, and it learns the rituals, the customs, the goals, the signals of your community. It gets taught by your primary caregivers, the people around you that have resource, and it tries to mimic those primary caregivers, those important people in your you that have resource. And it tries to mimic those primary caregivers, those important people in your life that have resource. So you will fit in to a society. And on top of that, you have something called the Neo-Cortex, the new brain.

And that, you can teach that one yourself. It's able to read books and learn new behaviors and new ideas. So you've got this new brain which you're really in charge of, you've got this social mammalian brain which is kind of programmed a little bit for you by your society and the society you want to fit into. And then there's this instinctual reptilian brain which you've got really no control over at all and so in the behaviors that it's going to push out and a lot of body language a lot of behavior that often we will observe especially when people are under stress and pressure that comes from the primitive brain that reptilian brain so I hope

that answers your question there. It does and for any moderators on the stage how can we better control our reptilian brain or do we just not have control over it at all? Well, no, you can't control it, but you can countermeasure it. I mean, well, you can control it. You'd have to get some kind of sharp object and kind of poke around in it and you probably kill yourself so you don't want to do that. Well, there's some drugs that you can take, but they'll stop you breathing as well.

So any control that you try and have over your primitive brain will most likely kill you at the same time. All you can do is countermeasure it. And you have to countermeasure it with your neocortex. You have to understand when your reptilian brain is taking over your life and you've got to recognize that and bring in countermeasure. So look, as a moderator that, you might find yourself getting anxious or worried, like if you don't hear any sound, it's certainly I cut out. Anxiety or worry might come over, and your breathing rate would change, and your heart rate would change. Well, one of the things that you could start to do is control your breathing around that,

and just breathe in a way that you might think is calm and assertive rather than panicked and out of control. You can actually start to move your body in a way which is more calm and assertive rather than panicked and out of control. And anybody listening to this can do the same thing. You know scenarios where you get a little more panic and out of control, just know the behaviors that you do when you're calm and assertive and start to do those behaviors on purpose. That's the way to countermeasure that primitive brain and to some extent certainly control the behaviors that you're putting out.

I love that. So basically you're saying, if you're feeling anxious, start to breathe and do movements that calm you, or that you would do in a calm state, and it's essentially tricking yourself to feel calm. Yes, exactly that. What you want to do is to kind of look at the behaviors you do when you're calm and assertive, and just reproduce those as much as you can

when you're getting that early trigger awesome early experience of the behaviors of being panicked out of control whatever you don't want to be doing. Got it Amelia go ahead. By the way here so 100% like Mark did on right it's the not trying to disconnect from the primary state, but to have behavioral tools that channels it towards the path that you're going on. So for example, anxiety, right? So Mark's example, but being anxious prior to an event.

So you can't stop that you're feeling it, but what you can do is change your relationship with it. So instead of anxiety that I'm feeling, I'm finding, I'm feeling excitement, and I'm taking that excitement and I'm putting it and putting it toward an opportunity so that I'm channeling that same energy back inside myself in a positive manner and then looking for the opportunity. So that energy can cause me to move forward into a situation where I would want to repel away from it to move me closer towards the opportunity or goal.

So for just example, just for myself, although people see me on TV and they see me on stage, they make the assumption that I'm an extrovert, they make the assumption that I'm not nervous. Well, none of that is anywhere close to the truth. I am anxious. I do get anxious before I step into a public arena and I channel that energy into a relationship. I feel I'm feeling excited and that energy is going to allow me to take those first couple of steps to push through that that anxiety and or excitement. And then once I get there, I can breeze into that space, give myself that three second pause, neutralizing my energy, and that allows me to share the content with the audience,

which I see it as me as trying to serve, so that other people can learn tools, tricks, all kinds of things to glue them into their life to get them where they want to be. The fault belief is that, well, I'm going to wait till I no longer feel this anxiety. I'm going to wait and somehow it's going to magically go away. No, what Mark is saying is it's not going to a way. So the counterbalance is the tools that allow you to still move toward where you're going, wanting to go.

I want to know how we can give off very friendly language. So let's pretend we're at a networking event and COVID doesn't exist or we're at a party and we don't know many people. We're walking into this party and we want to make a good impression. What body language should we give off? What are the things that we should say or do

to be more attractive, to be friendly, and to make a good impression at this party? Chase, let's start with you. what are the things that we should say or do to be more attractive, to be friendly, and to make a good impression at this party? Chase, let's start with you. Yeah, and keep in mind that any social interaction that you will ever participate in for the rest of your life, the reason that babies are born knowing how to smile and frown, and the reason that if you watch us, people getting the crap scared out of them, compilation on YouTube, that all the human bodies do the same thing is because language, just the spoken word, is really new for our species as a whole.

And we were communicating with each other non-verbally for millions of years, so much so that a lot of this stuff that we use to talk to each other is in our DNA. It's literally written into us, we are born with all that stuff, but we're also born with what Mark discussed earlier, is that mammalian brain. That's the part that's not just capable of sending out all these signals, but you have to understand that when you get a gut feeling, or when you have a feeling about somebody that something was off, that's that part of the brain that's millions of years old, that's reading what the other person is sending, but it's not capable

of language. So I can't give you a text message, I can't tell you what it saw, but it gives you that gut feeling. And there are some great things we can do to communicate to other people on a body language level. They don't have to know how to read body language because it's so innate in a lot of our interactions. And coming up to anybody, especially at a networking event where everybody's kind of nervous, the moment that we start to like someone is not when we realize they're perfect.

We're more likely to like somebody who also exhibits some of these things. So, reading a LinkedIn article about how to control your stress or anxiety is not going to get rid of millions of years of evolution. So, we're talking millions of years of evolution versus an article on LinkedIn. Evolution wins. So, a lot of the things that we can do is show some gratitude on your body. Like how would you look right now if you were feeling absolutely grateful for everything that's going on? Mark has a fantastic TED talk on winning trusted people, especially in these types of situations with something that Mark, I'm sure, we'll talk about,

called the Truth Plane. And I think it's really important to understand the proxemic of conversations, especially at these networking events where you don't want to be 180 degrees from the other person like face-to-face interactions. Just one other small tip would be just to angle your body a little bit instead of this direct head on or face-to-face situations. And I would say that the more interesting, not interested, the more interesting, you can make that person feel, the better you're going to do as far as report goes. Yeah, actually Chase, I have a follow-up question.

Why angle our bodies? Like what's the difference there? I think if anybody that's up here on the panel would be able to answer probably more eloquently than I would, but this triggers a almost a challenge mechanism in our brain. So that part of our brain that reads non-verbal communication sees a potential threat to be more present and more clear in the situation if we're face to face. And from interrogations to job interviewing skills, even in the intelligence communities,

when we're recruiting an intelligence asset overseas, we teach that angling away this body positions from another person kind of helps them to identify that we're almost looking in the same direction. We have a common goal. We have some common ground here. And in most of these situations, if we're face to face,

the person doesn't even know that they're feeling that way. So they're gut feeling about you might just boil down to that face to face interaction where we're kind of head on with that person. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors. Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea but you don't know how to move forward with it? Going into debt for a four-year degree isn't the only path to success.

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And the best part, they offer a money back guarantee. If your dog's tail isn't wagging within 30 days, they'll refund your first order. No fillers, no nonsense, just nom nom. Go right now for 50% off your no risk two week trial at trinom.com slash app. That's trinom and om.com slash app for 50% off trinom.com slash app. So interesting. Mark, what are your best tips for a good impression? So thanks, Chase, for bringing up the proof plane. Let me talk a little bit about that. That's a signal that is made to affect other people's reptilian, their primitive brain.

As I said before, it's about 500 million years old, and it's looking for risk and reward. So the first thing I'm going to do is approach people so that they can see me because if I approach from behind or in their peripheral vision it will take a fight and fight for them because there's way more risk to me approaching them being able to hear my approach and being able to hear and see my approach and my full body being visible to them. So I'll approach where they can see most of me and I'll do open palm gestures that exactly navel height. Those open palm gestures are a signal of no tools, no weapons, nothing in my hands. Again, no risk, more benefit. And I'll be opening those

palms at exactly navel height. The navel area, that stomach area, is benefit, and I'll be opening those palms at exactly naval height. The naval area, that summer carrier, is very, very vulnerable, and if somebody takes control of that, they got control over most of your body. They've got control over your center of gravity. So if I'm approaching, very visible, no tools, no weapons, and displaying my center of gravity and the delicate organs that are around there, it means I don't think you're a predator and I'm certainly not a predator. If I was a predator, I would be approaching from behind or I would be swinging from side to side as I approach you.

As Chase was saying, full on, I would be approaching my body, full on to yours and swaying from side to side or just kind of angling myself in a zigzag motion towards you to confuse you as to you being the target. So that's all you need to do is lots of open palm gestures of naval height and be in clear proximity. Amazing. Oh my gosh, so much great content. This is literally one of my favorite topics.

I don't know about you guys listening in, but it's so fascinating. And every time I interview somebody about this, I learned something new. If I could just share one gem, I learned this from Dr. Jack Schaefer. He's an XFBI agent I had on my show a couple times. He says that look for people who, like, if they're standing in a circle talking to each other, if there's an opening, that means that, you know, you're welcome to kind of approach that circle if their feet are pointing out, but if their feet are pointing inward and they have a closed circle, that means that it's private and they don't really want you to join. That's another tip from me.

All of this friendly body language and things that we should be doing, it seems very opposite from what we should be doing if we want to command authority. I want to talk about authority next and how we can be more authoritative to set context for this and for everyone listening to understand how important being authoritative is and how powerful it can be. Chase, can you tell us about the Milgram experiment and how powerful authority can be? how powerful authority can be. Yeah, so let me just set the stage really quick. It's 1962. It's a pretty cold day in the Yale University. And these people respond to an ad in the newspaper.

And essentially, they go into the psychology building at Yale, which is the Lindsay Chatham Hall. And they basically get sat in a room next to a box, and there's a guy in the other room right beside them. And every time he gets an answer on a test wrong, they have to shock him with electricity through the wall. And the voltage meter that's in front of you as it's volunteer goes from zero to all the way to 450 and then says XXX danger

severe shock. So they predicted 0.09 people would go all the way to the end. Shocking this person in another room who's screaming, you can hear him through the wall saying he's has a heart condition and then stops responding altogether. How many people are going to keep shocking this guy? And they thought at 0.09%, the actual results were between 64 and 67% of people would commit murder. And this took place in less than an hour. There's no insane body language skills, there's no persuasion, there's no hypnosis, there's

no influence tactics going on here. And this was during the Nuremberg trials of Nazi Germany and the Nazis were saying, you know, we were just following orders and Stanley Nogram's parents were Jewish and he wanted to figure out can this be true? Is this really true that somebody could say I was just following orders? be true. Is this really true that somebody could say I was just following orders? And this experiment has been replicated many times to rule out all the fallacies. And it's got very similar results every time. So what makes a person do something so atrocious, or we could just take it out of context for a minute, what makes a person feel like they have full permission to do something that is completely outside of their norm? What makes somebody do something very unusual for their character?

And that authority plays a major role. And on one hand, part of that authority was this guy's wearing a lab coat. He resembles a doctor and there's articles on this. If you want to go Google this later and you're listening now, you can look up white coat syndrome and how we're affected by perceived authority. Not just some authorities are unjust and sometimes even a doctor can give a patient a diagnosis of the terminal illness incorrectly and the patient still dies. There's plenty of books and stuff written on this. But part of the thing that goes into the authority is our primitive brain, or mammalian brain, if you will, is always scanning, especially in events where we have little information.

So if something is new, and we're introducing the concept of novelty, the mammalian brain automatically starts scanning for what it perceives as a potential authority figure and makes a decision to follow. And of course, there's tons of body language stuff here. But I would give you, you're listening right now, if you want the hard and fast tip, the number one thing, to start triggering the other person's mammalian brain, which is what makes all of our decisions.

So our mammalian brain and stuff, all the stuff in the base of the brain makes an emotional, unconscious decision, and then our conscious mind takes credit and rationalizes it most of the time. But if we want to trick someone's brain and thinking, wow, this might be an authority figure, I need to pay a little bit more attention here. Try just for a few days.

I want you to try this experiment. Try to not move any quicker than you would if you were in a swimming pool. Make that your maximum speed, if your body was underwater, how fast could I move? That would be the difference you get in the reaction from people that you're in conversations with this week. But authority above all else persuasion, influence, or anything else, authority is programmed into our genetics because we didn't obey the tribal leader.

We didn't listen to the tribe a million years ago, a hundred thousand years ago. leader, we didn't listen to the tribe a million years ago, 100,000 years ago, we were outcast or we were killed and our genes, our DNA stops existing on earth. So powerful. I think everyone is getting so much value out of this conversation. I want to pivot to Mark here. Can you talk to us about how we can hack authority and trigger an obedient response? Yeah, that's a really, really interesting question there. Here's what I want to do to build on what Chase is saying there.

We need to understand that not all tribes are the same. Different tribes have different values, beliefs, rituals, customs, goals, concerns, and signals. And we learn those for the tribe that we are a part of really early on. And when we change tribes, then we change those values, the least rich, or customs, goals, concerns, and signals. That can be really painful. That's really hard work. So look, here's what you need to understand. The white coat in the milgrain experiment will not work everywhere.

It will work in all the tribes where that white coat is seen as having value, but take that white coat and clipboard full of scientific ideas, maybe to a homeopathic convention, and it may not have the same authority because that particular tribe have a different set of values and beliefs and goals and concerns. So the way to hack this system, I would say, is to understand the person you are trying to influence and persuade using authority. You need to understand that they are not an individual. They are part of a group.

We are social mammals. Anybody who says, yeah, I'm a total individual. You've got a problem. You've got a problem with being part of society, and it probably won't work out for you, particularly well, eventually. Okay. So we are part of group, and we need to work out how that individual, as part of that group, what value system they are underneath and therefore what are the signals we need to give them in order to trigger their paleo mammalian brain to going that to value signal we pay attention to that and we do what that signal

says so first of all you got to look at that individual and work out what tribe what group what society they're part of and they've signed up to. And what are the most valuable signals you could play them in order for them to start to behave in the way that you want them to behave? That's great. And then the next question I have is for Amelia. I want to know what qualities or traits can kill our authority. Great question. So we're creatures of habit. Our brain is trying to detect unmatched. So being consistent in your tone,

being consistent to what you're referring to, help other people follow, learn, and validate what we're saying. So for example, if I'm trying to say I like you, but my face is saying I don't like you, or if I am making a reference into it that's giving a mixed signal, right, people disconnect when there is a conflicting or mixed messaging, right? So in so often, whether you're talking about a brand or a company or the team building,

anytime you give a mixed message, right, it's a full thought. They thought they create no action. And so all of those mind body and spirit, mind body and your intention, have to be in alignment to convey the message that you intend in a way to land it to the audience on what's important for them. And so all of that is at play.

The more that you can align internally with what your intention is, what are you trying to accomplish? So at least you get your side right, then it gives you more opportunity to then figure out how are you going to connect with what's going on outside of self. But the biggest behavioral goals are internal tools that create exponential outside results. Yeah, and how about the body language or the the way that we dress, or even our blinkerate, maybe Chase, you can talk to this. Like, what are some of the things that just show that we are not authoritative, and we have no authority? Well, going under what Mark said in our society,

or in the tribe, as Mark would put it, how do authority figures dress? And how do they look? There was a great experiment done with this called the crosswalk experiment for this guy and Blue Jeans and a T-shirt. Breaks the crosswalk when he's not supposed to and he crosses the street of course there's no cars coming. A couple of people follow him through the crosswalk but the same guy goes and puts on a suit and tie and decides to cross the crosswalk and

increases the amount of people that follow him across the crosswalk by around 80%. And this is profound that just the clothing or the appearance of that person was enough to, you know, break the law. So there's so many visual cues that our brains reading unconsciously all the time. A lot of those are posture and speed of movement. If there's one thing, I think a lot of body language experts, probably everyone here can agree with the speeds of different parts of our body. So fear makes our body move a little bit faster.

So go back full experiment and try that again. Don't move faster than you could if your body was underwater. And Hullar, remember we're also using these same behavioral tools behind the scenes. You know, a lot of the work that we do is on set on TV with our A-List personality. Right? So even though the talent actually is small, we brought in them with their clothing so that we have, you know, shoulder pads so that the gentleman looks like he has more of that stature. When we shoot, we shoot in an angle so he appears taller. When placement next to other talent, we put them up on a box so that they appear to be bigger,

right? Because we're portraying the character. When we're doing talk show environments, if you notice, if you pay attention now, you'll look, you'll notice that the host, right, their chair is lightly bigger and elevated over the guest. It's only about an inch or so different, but they are shot differently than the guest. The guest is shot an inch or so different, but they are shot differently than the guest. The guest is shot in an angle where the host is shot straight on. The chair is a little bit higher, and these are all sub-conscious cues of status that you're talking about. And so you're seeing them from the marketing side that your body is getting conditioned for them.

So what we're talking about is reverse engineering them when you want to use them for your favor. So for myself, when I wear red, that gives a different signal to an audience than I wear blue. So if you look at the stuff that I've done more on say box and CNBC and that type of stuff, you'll see me in blue. If you see me where I'm being more in a role of an expert, you're going to see me on red. If I'm working with a younger audience, you're going to see me in yellow, right? And so you have all of these tools around you, behavioral tools, that you can use to your advantage based on your desired outcome. Or is your desire to engage so that you're helping

and serving is your desire to be a sort of, so people are listening, is your desire for credibility so that you're respected, and all of it. Body language, choice of words, color, height, positioning, all makes a difference in the outcome and response that you're getting from others. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. Hear that sound, young and profitors? You should know that sound by now, but in case you don't, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify.

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today. Tune into the Kelly Road Show available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, yaap fam! As you may know, I've been a full-time entrepreneur for three years now. Yet media blew up so fast, it was really hard to keep everything under control, but things have settled a bit, and I'm really focused on revamping and improving our company culture. I have 16 employees, so it's a lot of people to try to rally and motivate, and I recently had best-selling author Kim Scott on the show. And after previewing her content in our conversation, I just knew I had to take her class on masterclass, tackle the hard conversations with radical candor to really absorb all she has to offer.

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That way, I can multitask while I learn. Get unlimited access to every class and right now as a app listener, you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com slash profiting. That's masterclass.com slash profiting for 15% off an annual membership. Masterclass.com slash profiting. And let's look at it from the other side of the coin. So you guys are giving us advice on how to be authoritative. Now, what if we're in a situation and someone is commanding authority and we don't want to be manipulated. Like, what should we do as people to kind of keep our eyes open

and not become accidental murders like the Milgram experiment and any mod who wants to answer this camp? Sure, I can jump in there, Halle. Look, here's what you need to understand, I think. For example, in Canada right now, if I put on a police uniform and walk down the street, I can be prosecuted for imprisonment for up to five years. This is called impersonating a police officer. Now why five years for just putting on a costume?

The reason is the power that that image has, authority knows that the major amount of power is in the dress there, is in the symbols that somebody else sees and how they'll get triggered into obedience. And that's been done in the alien brain. You were taught that obedience. You were taught when you see this badge, when you see that hat, when you see that uniform, start to do specific actions around that B compliant. So what we need to do in order to over-ride or counter-measure the mammalian brain there and all its training is to use critical thinking and the neocortex. That part of the brain is only about 200,000 years old. It's pretty new, but it's super powerful. The first thing you want to do is start asking questions

of the authority figure. Just any question you like, any question, that anything you can think of, okay? You just want to start asking a question because that's the start of critical thinking. And when you start that critical thinking process, you'll start to see if the authority figure in front of you starts to respond to your questioning of them and starts to lower their status, okay? So any question that pops

in to mind, the first question you can think of, whether it's, what do you think of the weather today? Or where did you get your shoes from? Anything that you can come up with will start to puncture the obedience trigger system that often these symbols that have been played on you are having on you. There's my thoughts. Cheese, bonka, Amelia, anything to add here? Yeah, absolutely. I think what Mark was saying is Absolutely, I agree with 100% and awareness is the number one way to avoid this. So the more you know about this stuff, if you just learn a little bit of neuro anatomy.

So if you if you're listening right now and you stick your fingers in your ears, you're going to be pointing towards the mammalian part of your brain. And understanding just where it is and how it starts to work in environments like this when we respond to authority figures, understanding that a lot of this is coming from a million year old part of your brain. That awareness is what gives you control. And you're basically taking what's operating in the dark and shining a big flashlight on it. The next thing I wanna talk about is building trust and how to tell when someone's lying.

So let's start with detecting deception and Blanca, I know you're an expert on this topic. How can we tell if someone is lying? Well, first I want to say how you can't tell. And there is no universal body language signs that let you know that somebody is lying. A lot of times people, if you think back to Pinocchio, the Disney character, every time Pinocchio lies in the nose,

unfortunately we don't have that. There's different pills that people have. A lot of it goes back to the base I needed that I was talking about. But again, keep this in mind, just because there's a change in somebody's behavior doesn't necessarily mean that they're lying. It could be that they're uncomfortable.

Maybe whatever question or topic is making them think of something in the past, something that they heard, something that they know about somebody else. However, when you can start pairing up, changes in body language, but really listening into the word, what people are saying, what they're not saying, that can give you a sense of,

maybe there's a hot spot. Hot spot, I think, is more appropriate word because I don't want for people to say, oh, I heard this, so that means somebody's automatically lying. Thank you so much, Blanca. Mark, chase Amelia, anything to add when it comes to detecting deception or building trust?

Yeah, let me just add one thing in here, which is important to know, I think, is that lying is one of our most important social skills as is telling the truth. And the key is to know when to lie and when to tell the truth in order to fit in with the social group that you're part of. We all have to fabricate or exaggerate in order to get along with people and we all have to accept fabrications and invageration in order to get along. So I think people should understand that you don't want to become too good at detecting lies most of the time, what you'll end up with is some kind of anti-social behavioural disorder.

So what you really want to know is when things really count, when things really matter to you, if you could get closer to the truth, would that be helpful? And so the process that I use really is a critical thinking process. It's just thinking more about the body language that you've seen, the words that you've heard, the context that that's all in gathering even more information and intelligence around that. And then taking your first assumptions about what somebody said and how they behave. And now putting that against some new assumptions that you might have,

now you've thought a little bit better about it. And the thing about this critical thinking process is that it can be quite short. It takes quite a bit of brain power to do it. And so most of the time, you won't do it because it's a little bit hard. But when things really matter, when you're thinking about important relationships, important deals, important moments in your life with people who you maybe don't know so well

or trusting them immediately could be at a higher risk, that's when you just want to use a little more critical thinking. You know, look at the body language more, the language more, bring some new assumptions in and test them against your older assumptions. Awesome. Amelia, I think you were going to say something as well. Yeah, I was going to also kind of just chime in with Mark, or say, you know, for me, it's not, are you lying to me? The question that I'm really looking at is, why are you lying

to me? Right? And so again, I like what Gyanke was saying, it's a hot spot, right? Instead of saying it's lying because there's a lot of natural reasons why people fabricate, is that when somebody is giving you more detail, then is required, is usually the trigger for me that they are embellishing or not telling the truth. But the comfort zone for lying for many people is lying by omission, right? So that's another behavior thing to also explore, which always then leads to be able to say, well, why are they lying? And is that work that needs to be done on your side or is that from back I guess that they're carrying. Got it and cheese what are your thoughts on this topic?

Yeah 100% agree with everybody here and if you want to dig into some tactics let's just do two very quick tactics to make this a little better. The first would be number one is that you have to look for deviations in that person's baseline. There's non-baselineers out there. How do they normally act? And is there something different here? And finally, the best question, if you think you're being deceived or you think someone

is being deceitful, is to ask something called a bait question. And all you would do here is just say the following words, is there any reason and then give them a plausible out or a plausible way to where they could re-explain that and start putting the truth into their answer. Man oh man, what a great conversation. I love human behavior. So every conversation that we have about human behavior

is always one of my favorites. Chase, Mark, Blanca, and Amelia are so well-versed in behavior psychology. And this episode was packed with actionable advice on how to master your body language. So a couple of tips really stuck out to me. And the first one was how to use counter measures to tame your reptilian brain response.

The reptilian brain is the instinctual brain. So when you're feeling really worried or anxious, it's likely your reptilian brain acting up. Our experts said that we can't control our reptilian brain, but we can tame it by using countermeasures. So if you're feeling triggered or anxious, try consciously moving your body in a way as if you would if you were calm. So slow your breathing down, slow your body movements down.

And this can help you override your reptilian response and regain control of the situation. Never underestimate the power of deep breaths in stressful situations. Another thing we talked about was the importance of body angle for putting others at ease. Having conversations face to face can trigger a threat response in the person you're talking to.

But if you angle slightly away, they're more likely to view you as being on their side. This is useful in so many different situations, but I'd say definitely for recruiters and job seekers. Try angling your body in a similar direction to the person you're speaking with and see if that helps put them at ease. We talked a lot about how to use body language to gain authority and chase mentioned the importance of the speed we're moving at. Going slow, exudes confidence while quick movements are associated with fear. He urges us to experiment

with the speed of our movement and see how those around us react. Remember to check out the show notes for the full original Unedited Clubhouse Live episode, or catch Chase and Mark's one-on-one interviews, number eight, and number 141, respectively. And start paying attention to the body language of those around you and be conscious of the nonverbal cues you're giving off. All right, everyone. Well, thanks for listening and I want to give a quick shout out to my amazing Yap team. Thank you so much for all that you do. And if you liked learning about body language, go ahead and shoot me a DM on Instagram or Twitter at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn. You can search for my name. It's Hala Taha. Be sure to drop us a five star review if you enjoyed this episode and I'll catch you next time.

This is Hala, signing off. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? I'm Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben podcast. My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft.

That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness without spending a lot of time energy or money. Suggestions such as follow the one minute rule. Choose a one word theme for the year or design your summer. We also feature segments like know yourself better where we discuss questions like are you

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