Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - YAPLive: Unlock Your Potential by Becoming Indistractable with Nir Eyal and Ethan Kross | Cut Version

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

These days, we are constantly battling distractions. They’re everywhere. They're on our phones, our computers, and our slack channels. With our devices constantly demanding our attention, it seems harder to stay focused than ever before. Productivity experts Nir Eyal and Ethan Kross have studied the psychology behind distraction and have proven techniques to improve focus and productivity. By limiting distractions, you can increase your time and energy, and all areas of your life will benefit as a result. In this episode, Nir and Ethan share actionable tips you can implement today to eliminate distractions, increase focus, and live a more fulfilling life. Ethan Kross is an experimental psychologist, neuroscientist, and writer. He specializes in emotion and regulation, he is a professor of psychology and management at the University of Michigan. He is the founder and director of the University of Michigan’s Emotion & Self-Control Laboratory.   Ethan is one of the foremost experts on emotion and regulation and has been interviewed about his research on news programs such as CBS Evening News, Good Morning America, Anderson Cooper Full Circle, and NPR’s Morning Edition. His research has also been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New Yorker, The New England Journal of Medicine, and Science. Ethan is the author of the bestseller Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It. Ethan graduated magna cum laude from the University of Pennsylvania and later earned his Ph.D. in Psychology from Columbia University.  Nir Eyal is an author, public speaker, consultant, and investor. Nir is the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products and Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life. Nir is an expert in behavioral engineering and has lectured at Stanford Graduate School of Business and Hasso Plattner Institute of Design. Nir also works as a consultant helping companies build engaging products and services. His writing appears in publications including the Harvard Business Review, The Atlantic, TechCrunch, and Psychology Today. Nir received his BA from Emory University and his MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. Sponsors: Athletic Greens - Visit athleticgreens.com/YAP and get FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. 99designs by Vista - Head to 99designs.com/YAP to learn more and get $30 off your first design contest! Constant Contact - To start your free digital marketing trial today, visit constant contact.com. Coinbase - For a limited time, new users can get $10 in free Bitcoin when you sign up today at Coinbase.com/YAP   Jenni Kayne - Find your forever pieces at jennikayne.com and get 15% off your first order when you use code YAP at checkout Native - Go to Nativedeo.com/yap or use promo code YAP at checkout, and get 20% off your first order. Resources Mentioned: Chatter by Ethan Kross: https://www.ethankross.com/chatter/  Hooked by Nir Eyal: https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-Build-Habit-Forming-Products/dp/1591847788  Indistractable by Nir Eyal: https://www.amazon.com/Indistractable-Control-Your-Attention-Choose/dp/194883653X/  #122 Harness Your Internal Chatter with Ethan Kross: https://www.youngandprofiting.com/122-harness-your-internal-chatter-with-ethan-kross/  #34: How To Be Indistractable with Nir Eyal: https://www.youngandprofiting.com/34-how-to-be-indistractable-with-nir-eyal/  FULL CLUBHOUSE EPISODE: https://www.youngandprofiting.com/yaplive-focus-is-the-new-productivity-with-nir-eyal-and-ethan-kross-on-clubhouse/  Social Media: YAP’s Instagram: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting   Hala’s Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/   Hala’s Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala   Website: www.youngandprofiting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode of YAP is sponsored in part by Shopify. Shopify simplifies selling online and in-person so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash profiting. Booba one will save you on all your eats. Savings can't be beat. Up to 10 percent of your order. Join Booba one and save $0.00 delivery fee and percentage off discount subjects to older minimums and participating

stores. Taxes and other fee still apply. You're listening to YAP, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halla Taha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday

life, no matter your age, profession or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of XFBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity,

had to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast. Imagine you're sitting at your desk. You're about to start working on a big proposal for a new client and your phone pings. The next thing you know, you've been scrolling through Instagram for an hour. You put the phone away, determined to get some work done, but then you realize, well, you're kind of hungry and you haven't walked the dog yet. You think to yourself, now would be a good time for a break. After

all, I haven't really gotten started and I'll come back and do the real work later. Now it's late. Hours have gone by and you're no closer to finishing your work. The stress creeps in as you start to wonder if you can get it all done. Somehow the day slipped by again. Sound familiar? I've been there plenty of times myself. If you can relate, this episode is for you. These days, we're constantly battling distractions.

They're everywhere. They're on our phones, our computers, and our Slack channels. With our devices constantly demanding our attention, it seems harder than ever to stay focused. Too often we blame ourselves, thinking we just lack the willpower to stay focused. My guest today, productivity experts, Niraeal and Ethan Cross, share how we can overcome distraction and lead more present, present productive and fulfilling lives. How? By curating our environments and habits of mind to become indestructible. Near and Ethan have spent decades studying productivity and human behavior.

Near is an expert in behavioral engineering and is the best-selling author of Hooked, had a build habit-forming products. And Ethan is an experimental psychologist, neuroscientist, and the best-selling author of chatter, the voice in our head, why it matters, and how to harness it. In this episode, Near and Ethan share actionable techniques for regaining focus and reducing distraction. They discuss how we can truly integrate these techniques into our lives to become indestructible. As you know, I'm insanely busy. We published three episodes a week here at Young and Profiting, and I'm the CEO of Yatt Media,

a social media and podcast agency. I have a podcast network, and I have a personal life. Tips like the 10-minute rule that Nearing Ethan Discussed in this episode have already helped me limit distractions and stay focused on the important work I need to get done. And I know you're gonna get a ton out of this episode too. This is a highlight episode from a two-hourhouse live I did with Near and Ethan. So if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to go check out the unedited version as well. Near has been on the podcast before and

that's episode number 34 and Ethan was on one-on-one back in episode number 122. If you want to learn from either of these experts, be sure to check out those episodes. All right, without further ado, enjoy my conversation with productivity experts, Nieriel and Ethan Cross. When we're talking about distractions, I think people usually think of like phones, pings, and rings, but it turns out that distractions can be in our own mind. And that's what you talk about, Ethan. You talk about chatter. You wrote a book called Chatter and How to Harness It. And in that book, you refer to chatter as the negative thoughts and emotions

that make introspection a curse rather than a blessing. So can you talk to us about what chatter is exactly and what role chatter plays in our ability to focus and get things done? Sure. So we've got this amazing capacity to introspect, to turn our attention and word, to reflect in our lives. And this is one of our superpowers. It lets us do lots and lots of things, like solve problems, like control ourselves, like create stories that explain who we are. You know, I get rejected by someone or a publisher, or whomever, and I can make sense

of that experience. Well, why did I get rejected? Well, I can make sense of that experience. Well, why did I get rejected? Well, maybe I didn't do my job. I could tell a story that gives rise to a sense of who I am. So this ability and respect is great except oftentimes it runs off track. So oftentimes when we experience negative events, we go inside and we try to make sense of them, but we end up getting stuck in negative thought loops. So we, you know, if it's a negative thought loop about the future, that's

worry. Oh my God, what if this happens? What am I going to do? If it's about the past, we call that rumination. I can't believe I said that to that person earlier today. Oh my God, what are they going to say? Is that going to jeopardize the job? And getting stuck in these negative thought loops is a pervasive experience. It's one of the core features of anxiety and depression. And so it's a big problem that we want to figure out how to address and it relates very promptly to what we're talking about, right? Getting distracted because we only have a limited amount of attention that we can focus

on at any given time. And so if all of your attention is focused very narrowly on your worries and reminations, it doesn't leave a whole lot left over to do the things you want to do like in the years case and mine too. Listen, really genuinely listen to those we love or our colleagues or really focus on on a report. An example I like to give people to really try this home is to ask people to just think about a time when they tried reading a couple of pages in a book, four or five pages. They are positive

that they've actually read the text, right? Their eyes have scanned over the words, but they get to the end of those five pages and they don't remember a damn thing that they've read. What happens there is your attention is on something else and so you can't do your job. So, chatter is something that can powerfully undermine our ability to think and perform and that's one of the ways it can sink us. Yeah, I definitely want to talk later on in terms of how we can turn chatter from destructive

to productive, but before we do that, I want to stay on this theme of distraction is actually an inside job. So, Near, I know you talk a lot about the difference between internal triggers and external triggers when it comes to distractions, and I'd love for you to break that down for us. First is important to talk about what is the difference between traction and distraction. That many people think the opposite of distraction is focus. And I would argue that's not exactly right, but the opposite of traction is distraction. So traction is anything you decide to do in advance, something that you want to do with

your time, anything that's in accordance with your values and moves you towards who you want to be, that's an act of traction. The opposite is distraction. So anything that moves you away from what it is, you said you want to do with your time and attention. And so I think it's a really important dichotomy because I think it gets us away from saying, oh certain behave evil, but somehow watching, you know, football on TV, that's okay. Right. There should be no moralizing of how people spend their time. It's all fine. It's not a distraction per se if it's what you plan to do with your time So that being said once you know what it is you want to do with your time If you go off track from that task or anything you want to do with your time if you go off track That would be a distraction so the question is why do we get distracted if we know what we want to do

And this is by the way an age old problem play though the Greek philosopher 2500 years ago so well before the internet and Facebook and all that, complained about this very same problem of distraction. He called it a krasia in the Greek, the tendency to do things against our better interest. And so the question is, why do we do that? Right, if we know what we want to do, why can't we just carry out that action? Why do we get distracted with something else? And so the reason is because we have two kinds of triggers. We have the external triggers. These are the usual suspects, the pings, the dings, the rings, anything in our outside environment

that pulls us away from what we said we were going to do. But it turns out studies find that that's only 10% of the time that we get distracted. Are we distracted because of an external trigger? Which is kind of counterintuitive. Most people think, oh, I wanted to work on this big project, but then my phone rang or then a Slack notification, a slack notification or something popped up. And I got pulled off track, but actually, that's only 10% of the time. So what's the other 90% the other 90% as Ethan and I have

alluded to are what we call these internal triggers. Internal triggers are uncomfortable emotional states that we seek to escape from. So it can be boredom, loneliness, fatigue, uncertainty, anxiety, stress, any of these uncomfortable sensations that we seek to escape. And so how many people deal with those uncomfortable sensations. And so this is where I think Ethan and my work kind of fit hand in glove is that I study what happens in terms of the action, right? You'll notice that traction and distraction both end in action. So I study what happens when we feel these internal triggers and then we do something that either we wanted to do or didn't want to do.

And so what oftentimes people do when they feel this discomfort of boredom or loneliness, stress, fatigue is that they look for escape. So whether it's turn on the news or check Facebook or do anything other thing that we escape that internal trigger, that emotional discomfort. Ethan, I wanna go to you really quick. I was doing some research, of course, for the show. And I came across one of your studies

that you completed with several colleagues where you took a sample of four and six-year-old children and you invited them to complete a boring task on a computer and you discovered the Batman effect. So can you talk about the Batman effect and walk us through this study and what you found? So the Batman effect really builds off some of the work I was talking about earlier that involves using your name to coach yourself through a problem. And the question is, well, how do you do that? How do you use that tool with kids? And so what my collaborators and I came up with was,

what if you were to ask a kid to basically adopt an alter ego? And in particular, the alter ego of a superhero was really good at persevering through arduous difficult tasks. And that gave rise to this idea, this Batman effect, we had some kids try to work on this difficult task, and periodically they would be instructed to ask themselves, how am I doing in the first person, but in another condition, we had the kids don a superhero costume, so they got to choose between

a few different superheroes like Batman or Dora the Explorer. And they basically adopted this persona. So during the task, they would be asked to ask themselves, so how was Batman doing? Now, what do we know about Batman and Dora the Explorer? I should confess. I didn't know much until I had kids and started getting into superheroes with them But they do they persevere and in fact what we found is that when you ask a kid to pretend there a superhero and actually use that superhero name to refer to themselves or really get them to adopt that identity that can have useful

Consequences for their ability to do the kinds of things that they often struggle with like homework. Now for adults using your name is sufficient to do that so come on Ethan here's what you gotta do right that gives you some distance for kids pretending that there are superheroes away giving them some distance from their experience as well. here is a way of giving them some distance from their experience as well. On top of that, there's also this identity piece, which is these are role models, right, that are really often good in the context that we're studying. They, like Batman Perseveres through difficulty sodas, door of the explorer. So if you're adopting that identity, you're also going to want a persevere. And now a quick break from our sponsors. Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea but you don't know how to move forward with it? Going into debt for a four-year degree isn't

the only path to success. Instead, learn everything you need to know about running a business for free by listening to the Millionaire University podcast. The Millionaire University podcast is a show that's changing the game for aspiring entrepreneurs. Hosted by Justin and Tara Williams, it's the ultimate resource for those who want to run a successful business and graduate rich. Not broke. Justin and Tara started from Square One, just like you and me. They faced lows and dug themselves out of huge debt. Now they're financially free and they're sharing their hard-earned lessons with all of us. That's right, Millionaire University will teach you everything you need to know about starting and growing a successful business.

No degrees required. In each episode, you'll gain invaluable insights from seasoned entrepreneurs and mentors who truly understand what it takes to succeed. From topics like how to start a software business without creating your own software, to more broad discussions such as eight businesses you can start tomorrow to make 10K plus month, this podcast has it all. So don't wait, now's the time to turn your business idea into a reality by listening to the Millionaire University podcast. New episodes drop Mondays and Thursdays, find the Millionaire University podcast on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Your dog is an important

part of your family. Don't settle when it comes to their health. Make the switch to fresh food made with real ingredients that are backed by science with nom nom. Nom nom delivers fresh dog food that is personalized to your dog's individual needs. Each portion is tailored to ensure your dog gets the nutrition they need so you can watch them thrive.

Nom nom's ingredients are cooked individually and then mixed together, because science tells us that every protein, carb, and veggie has different cooking times and methods. This packs in all the vitamins and minerals your dog needs, so they truly get the most out of every single bite. And Nom-nom is completely free of additives, fillers, and mystery ingredients that contribute to bloating and low energy. Your dog deserves only the best, and Nom Nom delivers just that.

Their nutrient-packed recipes are crafted by board-certified veterinary nutritionists, made fresh and shipped to your door. Absolutely free! Nom Nom meals started just $2.40, and every meal is cooked in company-owned kitchens right here in the US. And they've already delivered over 40 million meals, inspiring clean bowls and wagging tails everywhere. Ever since I started feeding my dog Nom Nom, he's been so much more energetic,

and he's getting older, he's a senior dog, but now we've been going on longer walks and he's much more playful. He used to be pretty sluggish and sleeping all the time, but I've definitely noticed a major improvement since I started feeding him NAMNAM. And the best part, they offer a money back guarantee. If your dog's tail isn't wagging within 30 days, they'll refund your first order. No fillers, no nonsense, just NAMNAM. Go right now for 50% off your no-risk two trial at trinom.com.sash app. That's trinom and om.com.sash app for 50% off trinom.com slash app.

So if I can just chime in, I love this. In fact, the reason I called my book indistractable is that indistractable sounds like indistractable. It's meant to sound like a superpower. It's a superpower that I wanted when I was talking with my daughter. That would be the superpower that I now most wish for. And thankfully, I can call myself indistractable. And I think we can all call ourselves indistractable. I mean, this is really the identity that we can use to have that superpower impact, that

super hero identity. really the identity that we can use to have that superpower impact, that super here, or identity. And we want to also be careful about how we adopt these temperaments, these self-images, because many times they can serve us and they can also hurt us, as you mentioned, you know, this villain aspect as well. And there's a more subtle effect that we notice, you know, much of this research around identity comes from the psychology of religion. That when people have a moniker, they are much more likely to accomplish the goals that are consistent with that identity

So when someone calls themselves a vegetarian, right? They don't wake up in the morning and say, oh, I wonder if I should have a bacon sandwich for breakfast No, they are a vegetarian is their identity is who they are and so having that moniker, having that identity, making what I call light, and identity packed with yourself by calling yourself something is incredibly effective. It can also harm us if we pick the wrong identity. Well, what does that sound like? These days we'll hear many people who say, oh, I have a short attention span. I'm bad with time management. I'm not a morning person. I'm a satirious, right? Pick your moniker. And we just have to be very careful about which ones we pick, because many of these identities provide self-limiting beliefs. They don't help us. They harm us. So we

want to be very careful in terms of picking identities that move us forward to what we want in life, making that pact to make it easier to make the right decisions, but also dissolving those identities that do nothing but keep us back. I completely agree, Near, that's directly consistent with what we find in these bad Manifest studies. And I think your point about being careful about the identities we choose raises another really important point about the broader set of tools that exist for managing the mind, managing our attention,

and when they're useful and when they're not. I think a lot of people often are looking for simple tools that work across all situations. So let me, what is the one thing I can do to manage my chatter or manage my distractions across the board? And I'd be curious to get your take on this, Nier, but my sense is that there's a time and a place

for lots of different tools. So you really need to think carefully about how you're using different tools because any tool can be if pushed too far become counterproductive. So I like to draw the analogy to like, you know, use the metaphor of a hammer, right? A hammer can be the source of, you can build wonderful things with a hammer, but if you swing that hammer too hard, that can also cause destruction. And I think the same is true for tools.

We have evolved the capacity to use lots of different tools to manage our minds. And I think the real challenges to figure out when to use the different tools and what combinations and what situations. Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. And I hear this all the time with people and technology distractions, right? What's the one life hack? What's the one app? What's the one technique I need to use? Tell me the magic bullet, right? Do I use grace, screen my phone? Do I, you know, is there some service I should use? And of course, it's yes and no.

It's about using a concert of tools together. I think the one insight I think is very important to realize is that we need to focus less on the tactics, right? Tactics are what you do. Strategy is why you do it. And so I think that's why it's so important for folks to understand the deeper psychology, the deeper reason why we go off track, get distracted, whatever the case might be. Because then you can find all kinds of tactics that are consistent with your strategy. But if you don't understand the underlying psychology, for example, you know,

in the research I did with Indistractable, and I know you're deep into this research, understanding these internal triggers. Like once you realize that, wait a minute, distraction begins from within overwhelmingly. It's not about what's happening outside of me. It's about what's happening inside my own head. Now we can get to the root of the problem, and we have all kinds of techniques that we can use and cycle through. You know, many times I'll recommend a certain technique and someone will try and say, that wasn't so great, what else you got? And they'll try the second technique, the third technique, and oh,

that's the one that really clicks. So it's really about experimentation and not settling with, that said, this has got to work or I won't try anything else. It's being a scientist, not a drill sergeant. And I think that this is very consistent with what you were saying earlier in terms of distance, self-talk and self-compass. You know many people when it comes to distraction and focus, they talk to themselves not like a good friend. They talk to themselves like a drill sergeant, right? They're mean to themselves. They bully themselves as opposed to the right attitude.

I think it's to be a scientist. What does a scientist do? A scientist comes up with a hypothesis, they run an experiment, and then they see the results, and then they run another experiment. So that's really how we want to think about this. It's a constant cycle. You're never done being indistractable, just like you're never done being creative. It's something that we iterate upon so that we get closer and closer to that desire. I do want to get into some more techniques on how to mitigate distractions, how to psychologically trick ourselves to focus better.

Is there anything that you guys want to cover that we haven't talked about yet that you think is super interesting and super practical for people to use to be better focused? So, you know, the perspective that I adopt is, if chatter is really the source of the consumption, so, you know, your worries and ruminations are making it really hard for you to achieve your goal or, I think, in Nier's language, get the traction you want. Well, how do you tame that chatter?

How do you get a handle on it to free up those mental resources to allow you to get back to doing what you want to do? So we talk about distance self-talk. Another very easy to implement tool is something called temporal distancing or mental time travel. So there, if you're dealing with an acute stressor that's really consuming you, you've just you bomb the presentation, the date went horrible, the performance went bad, you can stop thinking about it.

There one really useful science-based, tool, science-based activity you can engage in is to think about, how are you going to feel about this experience down the road, a month from now, six months from now, a year from now? What engaging in that very, very simple mental exercise does for us is it makes it clear to us that, hey, how am I going to feel about that faux pas I made earlier today?

I put my foot in my mouth on a call. True story, I actually did. How am I going to feel about this a month from now? It makes me realize this is going to pass. I'm going to do something else embarrassing two days later. And so when we jump into that mental time travel machine and we think about how we're going to feel about this event in the future, what that often does is it makes it clear that what we're going through is temporary.

It'll eventually pass. And that gives us hope. And hope, it turns out, is a pretty powerful tonic when it comes to this monkey chatterfilled mind. And it helps diffuse that kind of thought looping. So that's another easy to use tool that a person can implement on their own. Let me pause there to see if Near has anything to add to that. I can move on to some other tools easily as well.

Sure, thanks. So I would say that there's these four big strategies. So step number one is mastering the internal triggers. We talked a little bit of internal triggers and I'll come back and give you a very practical technique that we can use around mastering the internal triggers. We talked a little bit of internal triggers, and I'll come back and give you a very practical technique that we can use around mastering those internal triggers. Step number two, the second strategy is to make time for traction. So this is very important because you can't call something

a distraction unless you know what it is distracting you from. So many times, you know, I hear people who are struggling with time management and focus, and then I say, okay, well, what did you get distracted from? Show me your calendar. And it's pretty blank. Right? There's maybe a dentist appointment or one thing or another.

But, you know, if you have just swastive open time in your schedule, if you're using a to-do list to run your life rather than a calendar, you're making a huge mistake, you've got to use what we call time boxing, which is basically making an implementation intention. It's setting down what you want to do and when you want to do it. That's a critical practice of knowing what you want to do with your time, because that's the only way to know the difference between traction and distraction. The third step is to hack back the external triggers. This is where we get very practical in terms of all those pings and dings in our environment.

How do we hack back our phones, hack back our computers, hack back our environment? What do we do when it's our kids that are distracting us, our roommate, our spouse, our significant others? How do we make sure that we can hack back all those external triggers, even though they make up a small percentage of the reason we get distracted? There are some very practical things we can do there.

And then finally, we make packs. Packs are the firewall against distraction. We talked about some of those earlier like identity packs. We can also use what's called an effort pack where we put some friction in between us and the distraction. We can also use what's called a price pack where there's some kind of financial disincentive to going off track. And so that's the last line of defense. It's not something we want to do first. It's something we do after the first three techniques. Let me talk about one technique that I use almost every day in that first strategy of mastering the internal triggers. This is called the 10 minute rule. And I can't take credit for it. This comes from acceptance that commitment therapy. It's been around for decades. But it's a really effective technique.

Because as we talked about earlier, you know, many people, when it comes to distraction, when it comes to focus, when it comes to trying to steer clear of temptation, whether it's eating that piece of chocolate cake, if you're on a diet or smoking that cigarette or checking your newsfeed when you want to do work, they tend to go towards abstinence. We tell ourselves, don't do that, right? And it turns out that this research around abstinence shows that for many people, it can backfire, especially when the triggers are so prominent, right? We can't escape food, we have to eat.

We can't escape technology. We depend upon it for our jobs. So rather than telling yourself, no, you want to tell yourself not yet. Because telling yourself, no, is like pulling on a rubber band You pull pull pull pull pull until you can't pull anymore and then eventually when you let go The rubber band doesn't just go back to where it started it ricochets across the room and so that process of telling yourself Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it when you finally do it

The brain registers that Relief as a reward and so you're doing nothing but reinforcing the very behavior you're trying to not do. So what we want to do instead is to use a 10 minute rule. The 10 minute rule says that you can give in to any distraction, right? Anything you want to do. You want to eat that piece of chocolate cake? Go for it. You want to check email, go for it. Whatever it is you want to do, but not right now. So you're telling yourself not yet instead of no. So you can do that thing, but in 10 minutes. So what do you do for those 10 minutes?

You do what's called surfing the urge. That's simply stepping back for a second, closing your eyes, using some of these self-talk principles and self-compassion principles that you can talk about earlier, to surf the urge. Because these sensations, while we feel that in the moment, they feel like they're going to last forever with that craving, that desire, that's not how it works. They don't last forever. They're like waves. And so if we can simply tell ourselves I'm going to surf the urge and then when I'm ready, I can get back to the task in a hand or when that clock runs out and the 10 minutes are

up, yep, I can give into distraction. No problem. I can do that thing that I said I wanted to do. Now the magic here happens that nine times out of ten when you do this technique And I use this almost every single day because writing for me I've written two best sellers countless articles. It's still sucks Writing is always hard work. It's never going to become a habit But what we can do instead is to ride out that urge for just 10 minutes and if we still desire it We can give in at the end of the 10 minutes and what tends to happen is over time is that the 10 minute rule becomes the 12 minute rule becomes the 15 minute rule and so we're building our capacity and most importantly our self-image and our belief in our own self-efficacy to be able to withhold from giving into distraction

with every whim. Hold tight everyone, let's take a quick break and hear from our sponsors. You hear that sound, young and profitors? You should know that sound by now. But in case you don't, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that's revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you sell edgy t-shirts or offer an educational course like me, Shopify simplifies selling online and in-person so you can focus on successfully growing your business.

Shopify is packed with industry-leading tools that are ready to ignite your growth, giving you complete control over your business and brand without having to learn any new skills in design or code, and Shopify grows with you no matter how big your business gets. Thanks to an endless list of integrations and third party apps, anything you can think of from on demand printing to accounting to chatbots, Shopify has everything you need to revolutionize your business. If you're a regular listener, you probably know that I use Shopify to sell my LinkedIn secrets masterclass.

Setting up my Shopify store just took me a few days. I didn't have to worry about my website and how I was going to collect payments and how I was going to trigger abandoned cart emails and all these things that Shopify does for me was just a click of a button, even setting up my chat bot was just a click of a button. It was so easy to do. Like I said, just took a couple of days. And so it just allowed me to focus on my actual product and making sure my LinkedIn masterclass was the best it could be and I was able to focus on my marketing.

So Shopify really, really helped me make sure that my masterclass was gonna be a success right off the bat and enabled focus. And focus is everything when it comes to entrepreneurship. With Shopify single dashboard, I can manage my orders and my payments from anywhere in the world. And like I said, it's one of my favorite things to do every day is check my Shopify dashboard.

It is a rush of dopamine to see all those blinking lights around the world showing me where everybody is logging on on the site. I love it. I highly recommend it. Shopify is a platform that I use every single day and it can take your business to the next level. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com such profiting. Again, go to shopify.com such profiting all lowercase to take your business to the next level today. Again, that shopify.com such profiting shopify.com such profiting all lowercase.

This is possibility powered by Shopify. Yeah, bam, if you're ready to take your business to new heights, break through to the six or seven figure mark or learn from the world's most successful people, look no further because the Kelly Roach show has got you covered. Kelly Roach is a best-selling author, a top-ranked podcast host, and an extremely talented marketer. She's the owner of NotOne but six thriving companies, and now she's ready to share her knowledge and experience with you on the Kelly Roach show. Kelly is an inspirational entrepreneur, and I highly respect her. She's been a guest on YAP.

She was a former social client. She's a podcast client. And I remember when she came on Young & Profiting and she talked about her conviction marketing framework. It was like mind blowing to me. I remember immediately implementing what she taught me in the interview in my company and the marketing efforts that we were doing. And as a marketer, I really, really respect all Kelly has done, all Kelly has built. In the corporate world, Kelly secured seven promotions in just eight years, but she didn't just stop there. She was working in I to five.

And at the same time she built her 8-figure company as a side hustle and eventually took it and made her full-time hustle and her strategic business goals led her to win the prestigious Inc. 500 award for the fastest growing business in the United States. She's built an empire, she's earned a life-changing wealth. And on top of all that, she maintains a happy marriage and a healthy home life. On the Kelly Road Show, you'll learn that it's possible to have it all.

Tune into the Kelly Road Show as she unveils her secrets for growing your business. It doesn't matter if you're just starting out in your career or if you're already a seasoned entrepreneur. In each episode, Kelly shares the truth about what it takes to create rapid, exponential growth. Unlock your potential, unleash your success,

and start living your dream life today. Tune into the Kelly Road Show available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, ya fam. As you may know, I've been a full-time entrepreneur for three years now. Yet media blew up so fast, it was really hard to keep everything under control,

but things have settled a bit, and I'm really focused on revamping and improving our company culture. I have 16 employees, so it's a lot of people to try to rally and motivate, and I recently had best-selling author Kim Scott on the show. And after previewing her content in our conversation, I just knew I had to take her class on masterclass, tackle the hard conversations with radical candor to really absorb all she has to offer. And now I'm using her radical candor method every day with my team to give in solicit feedback, to cultivate a more inclusive culture, and to empower them with my honesty. And I can see my team feeling more motivated and energized already. They are really

receptive to this framework, and I'm so happy because I really needed this class. With masterclass, you can learn from the best to become your best anytime, anywhere, and at your own pace. And we all know that profiting in life doesn't just mean thriving in business. With masterclass, you can brush up on your art skills or your cooking skills or even your modeling skills with over 180 classes from a range of world-class instructors, that thing you've always wanted to do better is just a few clicks away. On Masterclass, you'll find courses from many app-a-all star guests like Chris Boss and Daniel Pink. I've been taking their sales and negotiation classes and I've been feeling like a real shark lately.

I've totally leveled up my sales skills. How much would it cost you to take a one-on-one class from the world's best? A lot. But with masterclass annual memberships, it just cost you $10 a month. I have to say the most surprising thing about masterclass since I started

this incredible journey on the platform is the value. For the quality of classes, instructors, the platform itself is beautiful. The videos are super high quality. You can't beat it gain new skills and as little as 10 minutes on your phone, your computer, tablet, smart TV, and my personal favorite way to learn is their audio mode to listen on the go. That way I can multitask while I learn, get unlimited access to every class. And right now as the app listener,

you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com-profiting. That's masterclass.com-profiting for 15% off an annual membership. Masterclass.com-profiting. Oh my gosh, I love that the 10 minute rule that was awesome near. Even before I move on to the next question, I wanna give you an opportunity to respond if you'd like to. Near gave you a framework for thinking about how to manage these distractions. Let me give

you another kind of framework for thinking about how to manage chatter in particular, which is a particular kind of potent internal distraction. And I think this framework is really useful for just organizing a lot of what we've talked about and what maybe we will talk about with respect to where you can find these different tools. I think you can find them in the way I organize them in my book is there are three different buckets or categories of tools. There are things you could do on your own. Simple, cognitive shifts or behaviors like engaging in a ritual that can be useful for managing chatter. So lots

of things you could do on your own, then there are ways of, there are tools that exist in our relationships with other people. So other people can be an incredible resource to us when it comes to figuring out how to work through our worries and ruminations. But the take home is not any other person will do. So just talking to any person in your life turns out that's not always helpful. There's a particular way that you want to talk to other people. There are some people who are really good at being chatter advisors to us. And so you want to really think carefully about who

those people are in our lives. Sometimes the people that care most about us are not particularly good at helping us work through our chatter and can actually make them worse. So there are lots of tools that exist in our relationships with others. And then the final category of tools that exist are what I call environmental tools. Ways of interacting with our physical spaces that can help us regulate these conversations that we have with ourselves that run off course. And things you could do here are enhancing your exposure to green spaces. So going for a walk in nature, even if it's a short walk, there's a ton of data

shown how restored that can be to our attention when we find it waning. You could seek out experiences of awe, so try to experience the emotion of awe, which is an emotion we experience when we're in the presence of something vast and indescribable, like seeing an amazing sunset or walking down a New York City street and looking at a skyscraper. When we feel awe, what ends up happening is it leads to something called a shrinking of the self. We feel smaller when we're contemplating something vast and indescribable. And when we feel smaller, so do our worries. And then the last thing you could do when it comes to your environment is something that my wife absolutely loves,

which is cleaning and organizing. I should say that my wife loves it when I clean and organize, which I don't typically do. I'm a pretty, you know, free-spirited guy, but when I find myself experiencing chatter, I'll find myself organizing my office and washing the dishes and putting them away neatly. And we know that that is another tool that people possess that can be useful for helping provide people a sense of order and control when the world inside feels anything but. So things you could do on your own, relationship tools and environmental tools, those are three places you can look to find tools to help you regulate your mind. So, Ethan and Nier, I have one last question that we're going to move along to Q&A. And that is how do we maintain focus

when we don't like the activity that we're doing? So, for example, when we're bored or when we feel drained by something, I think that's when our mind starts to wander and we start to lose focus. For me personally, I will like create a game. You know, if I have to do, I hate doing proposals. I have a marketing agency and that's the one thing that like, I procrastinate

and procrastinate and I hate doing those proposals. They're so boring. And I have to play a game like, okay, you're going to do 10 proposals and in two hours and that's your game. And if you complete it, you win, you know, and that's how I get through it. So do you guys have any cool hacks in terms of how we can focus better when it comes to things that we don't like and I'll kick it over to near? Sure. Yeah. So this is where I think this work is so important because when something is fun, we don't have a problem.

The discomfort is not necessarily something we should run away from that That I think many folks think that feeling bad is bad. And it's not necessarily the case that discomfort can be used. Those internal triggers can be used as rocket fuel to propel us towards traction. That escaping them can itself be a form of distraction. So leaning into that discomfort, telling yourself, you know what? This proposal was really hard to write because I have this rare skill that other people don't want to do this. And that's why it's difficult. That's okay. It's part of the process. And preparing yourself to know that that discomfort, that those internal triggers, the boredom,

the uncertainty, the stress, is part of the process and is what makes what you're doing worthwhile. I think is an important mind shift and not expecting every behavior to be easy and effortless and something that you can turn into a habit necessarily. And then we can incorporate other techniques, right? For one, I think what you're doing, how is fantastic. I call it learning how to play anything, and Ian Bogos, a Professor at Georgia Tech espoused this technique as well, where we can learn to use play not necessarily to have fun that he says play doesn't have to be enjoyable. And many people say, wait, what do you mean?

How can play not be enjoyable? He says, Ian Bogos says that play just needs to be used as a tool to help us refocus our attention long enough to finish the task. So you're doing exactly the right thing, adding constraints, saying, hmm, okay, I'm gonna work on this proposal for 15 minutes without distraction.

That's my challenge, go. Or I'm gonna see how I can do this task in a new way, add some variability, add some uncertainty to the task. Those are the kind of things that we can use to play the task, but it's important to realize that we don't necessarily have to enjoy hard work. Sometimes hard work is hard work very much for the fact that it requires us to be effortful. I love those tips.

Thank you so much, Near. Ethan, I'd love to hear your perspective on how we can stay focused on the activities that we dislike doing. I just want to echo a lot of what Near said. I completely agree with. We can experience negative emotions for a reason. They are elegantly adaptive in small doses. We just don't want them to consume us, but they can be really useful.

And you know, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy a life free of all negative emotions, because I think that would not be a very successful life. And so I think that's a really important insight that Nearset articulated. That's worth keeping in mind. I think it frees us up quite a bit. If our goal is to never experience negativity, that's a really high bar we're trying to achieve. So I think we could take it easier on ourselves in that regard. You know, I think my go to for the kinds of boredom that you're experienced with those proposals is to try to transform the situation, which near hinted at too.

So to reframe what it is we're doing, it's so easy to focus on the awfulness of the act itself, but thinking about the bigger picture, right? So why are you working on this proposal? What's the long-term goal you're helping to achieve both with respect to this particular document that you're working on, but then even both with respect to this particular document that you're working on, but then even broader with respect to your company and what you're trying to do in the world, right? Shifting our focus in that way, those slight mental transformations with how we think about

these experiences, that can be really powerful for motivating us and sustaining our attention in the face of really, you know, boring things or upsetting things. I mean, I did this all the time when I was working on my book like as near hint to that writing can be painful like enormously painful. It's hard to get the words out the right way. There's a gazillion other things that can go wrong. We spend years sometimes working on books. Why would we do this? Well, think about the bigger picture, the opportunity to really communicate science to lots of

people to make a difference in their lives. Those are really motivating ways of thinking about this situation that can in turn take it unpleasant experience and make it a lot more tolerable. Was that great or what? Near and Ethan are seriously the best in the business when it comes to staying focused and eliminating distractions. Whether it's the 10-minute rule, creating an alter-ego for yourself, or even game-ifying tough tasks, they have a ton of resources we can use to stay focused and become indistractable. Let us know how these techniques are working in your life.

You can find me on Instagram at Yabutala or LinkedIn, just search my name, it's Hala Taha. DM me and tell me what you thought about the episode. Let's keep the conversation going. If you haven't already, be sure to check out episode number 34 with Niren Eye and 122 with Ethan Cross. We'll stick those links in the show notes and we'll also be sure to include the link to the full two-hour conversation on Clubhouse.

All right, everyone, thanks again for listening. Keep crushing it out there and I'll see you next time. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? I'm Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week, we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week, we share ideas and practical solutions on the happier with Gretchen Ruben podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft.

That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness without spending a lot of time, energy, or money. Suggestions such as, follow the one-minute rule. Choose a one-word theme for the year or design your summer.

We also feature segments like, know yourself better, where we discuss questions like, are you an over buyer or an under buyer? Morning person or night person, abundance lever or simplicity lever and every episode includes a happiness hack, a quick easy shortcut to more happy. Listen and follow the podcast happier with Gretchen Rubin. I don't know about you. It takes a lot to shock me these days, but to see our judicial system resemble a third world banana republic, to see trusted American companies embrace insane and destructive woke ideologies is frankly depressing. We must fight back and that starts with changing the way that we spend our money. For years, big mobile companies

have been dumping millions into leftist causes and we've had to take it because another option didn't exist. Well, it does now. Patriot mobile America's only Christian conservative wireless provider offers dependable, nationwide coverage on all the major networks. So you get the best possible service in your area without the woke propaganda pushed by leftists working hard to destroy this country. When you switch to Patriot Mobile, you support free speech and religious freedom, the sanctity of life, second amendment, and our military, veterans, and first responder heroes.

There 100% U.S. base customer service team makes switching easy. Just go to PatriotMobile.com slash America right now. Get free activation today with offer code America. Ask about their coverage guarantee while you're there. patreonmobile.com slash America. Again, that's patreonmobile.com slash America.