Your Next Move - Creating a Roadmap to Profitability

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

It’s hard to plan a trip when you’re not sure how to get there. So, it helps to ask for directions. For Your Next Move, founders who’ve successfully charted a course to long-term financial success and big valuations share the paths they took—and also how they were able to right-size their roadmap as their companies grew. In this episode, host Aisha Bowe interviews Suneera Madhani, Founder and CEO of Worth AI.

With the VentureX Business Card from Capital One, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase. And with no preset spending limit, your purchasing power adapts to meet your business needs. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Find out more at CapitalOne.com slash VentureXBusiness. Terms and conditions apply. I'm Sarah Lynch, and you are listening to Your Next Move,

audio edition, produced by Inc. and Capital One Business. On today's episode, host Ayesha Bowe talks with Sunira Madani on stage at South by Southwest. Sunira is one of the most successful entrepreneurs in the world. Her previous company, Stacks Payments, is a billion-dollar unicorn, and now she's launching a new company, Worth AI. In the panel, Sunira discusses the necessity of a roadmap, both personal and professional. But before we get to that interview, I talked with Karen Bonner, VP of Brand and Acquisitions Marketing for Capital One Business, to really drill down on the idea of creating a capital roadmap. Karen, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you for having me, Sarah. Creating a business roadmap helps you plan your company's future and funding sources. Once you have the funding, you need to make decisions about how to put it to work for you. What are some of the things you need to think about when it comes to working capital? We think of working capital as the money a business has on hand to manage day-to-day operations and meet expenses. But when businesses think more strategically about working capital, they can actually use it both for immediate needs and future growth. What are some of the areas where your business can use its working capital to become stronger and grow? I think there are a number of areas where you can use your working capital for business stability. These include things like smoothing cash flow ups and downs,

replacing equipment or making repairs, and meeting those unexpected expenses. But let's look at some of the more strategic ways working capital can be used. Working capital can help you maximize cost-cutting opportunities. So if you buy in bulk, for example, or make strategic inventory investments, you can actually drive down your costs.

You can also make an investment in equipment, tools, or even expertise that can help you solve problems and operate more efficiently. You can leverage your working capital to better plan ahead and even take advantage of expansion opportunities. We've heard from many business owners that expansion is one of their primary uses for their working capital, in addition to meeting operating expenses and keeping that cash buffer on hand for the future. What are some of the areas where your business can use its working capital to become stronger and grow? I would think about the areas where your business needs investment to stay current or innovate or even grow.

New equipment or technology, things like landing or fulfilling a big new client or order, or hiring specific talent to help your business grow, or investing in training and upscaling for your existing talent. How do you take those big picture steps and make them actionable? To gain traction on the plan you've made, first break it down into teams or areas of responsibility.

What teams need to spearhead growth in specific areas? Do those teams have the right resources to support that growth? What do hiring managers need in order to recruit new talent? Then create team-specific roadmaps and goals that support the company's overall mission and imperatives. How do you know if your working capital roadmap is getting you where you want to go? It's critical to put metrics in place for success. Where do you want to see progress It's critical to put metrics in place for success. Where do you want to see

progress and how will you measure it? Then set a schedule and assign responsibility even for tracking progress and measuring it. You can review your progress regularly so you can see when it's time for a change and reevaluate so if something's not working, you can adjust. Thank you for sharing these insights about creating a working capital roadmap, Karen. Thanks again for having me. And now, here is Ayesha Bowe's conversation with Sunira Madani. Enjoy. Sunira, I have to ask, we often hear the phrase roadmap, but can we unpack it? What is a company roadmap and why is it important? I think a roadmap goes even just beyond a company. A roadmap is exactly a, it's a map, it's a system, it's a way to plan for where we want to go. So we all have to have a roadmap in place, whether that is for our businesses, for our life, for any strategic goal that we have. If it doesn't, you know, what is that thing? A goal without a plan is just a wish, right? And so we have to create the plan in place. And that's

exactly what a roadmap is. And that's one of the things I encourage all entrepreneurs to do. And especially as women, we're so great at actually creating roadmaps. Like that is one thing as women, we're so, we're so great with creating a list, creating, you know, the big milestones that are ahead, but it goes beyond just putting that pen to paper to say, here's where I want to go. The key is how do we actually get there? And it's in the making of the sauce. Take us to the roadmap for stats. When did you create it? Was it at the start of the business? Roadmap is iterative. So you can't just create, here's like the first plan of the company and then expect everything to go according to plan. When has that ever actually happened to anything we've ever planned for? Never. It never goes according to plan. So as an entrepreneur,

you have to be willing to pivot, to learn from what's taking place and you have to make adjustments. So when I first started, the company was actually called Fat Merchant. I kid you not for the first six years of its life. And it was incredible. And that journey grew to where it needed to go. It became a hundred million dollar company from a value standpoint. We raised the capital that we needed to, to get there, all of the things, but that roadmap had to change as our customers were changing, as the marketplace was changing, then COVID happened, right? So you have to be able to adjust your plan. So the answer to that question, like, isn't simple. I know we want like the perfect, the roadmap to success. There just

isn't one. If, you know, I look back now to say what got me from zero to that billion it was changing it was adapting it was being resilient and it was constantly finding a way regardless of what was coming there was a huge mountain at every single stage to say okay we just need to find a solution over it or we've got to go around it or we've got to go through it or we've got to go under it and all the different ways and i I think that's truly, no matter what entrepreneur you're going to listen to, whoever's going to come on this stage, you'll probably find that trinket of advice that all of us will give it. There is no perfect, there is no perfect roadmap, but it is important to start and it is important to have a plan so that you're strategic about it. Because what I find also often, Aisha, is that entrepreneurs, we're the most,

we're so distracted, right? There's so much opportunity. There's so many partnerships that can come our way and this happens and this happens and this happens. You don't want to be distracted. You want to stay focused. And so when you have a roadmap, it's a guide to stay focused on. And that is really important. I love that you said that. As a founder, I really struggle in this area. And I often feel like I'm being asked to build a bridge to someplace that I've never been. You're supposed to struggle. I don't know where people have this notion that it's supposed to be easy or there is that perfect playbook of success. It's supposed to be hard. And that is exactly how it goes for every single founder. So you're not crazy. I still feel crazy. Every single moment that we scaled, you look back and you're like, wow, we got here. And now how do we get to this

next milestone? What gets you from zero to six figures in revenue is not what gets you from six to seven. And it's not what's going to get you from seven to eight figures and beyond. So you have to be willing to throw the plan out the window and create a new one. And really quick, Aisha, what you talked about distraction and feeling that pressure, that is what it is. One of my mentors in the earliest phases of my career, he legit had a squirrel, like a toy squirrel. And it was like stapled on the side of his wall. Like it was this odd thing in his office that his like CFO like put on, uh, like in his office. And it was supposed to be like this joke, um, that they, this inside joke that I, that they had. And when I came in

and I sat in his office and I asked him, I said to Steve, like, why is there a toy squirrel on your wall? That's like hanging off the side of your wall. And he goes, my CFO thinks I'm the most distracted person ever, but that's who we are as entrepreneurs. We're, we're visionaries. We're idea generators. We're constantly thinking of the next best thing, even for our companies. So we are supposed to be excited and distracted with opportunity, but it's that squirrel is that reminder. And the squirrel in his office, we don't want to get distracted by too many squirrels, right? So we want to chase the right ideas. And so we're constantly chasing squirrels. We're never going to stay on our roadmap and actually get to the next milestone. So that's a funny story about squirrels, but you're supposed

to, it's supposed to be hard and crazy and opportunities. You have to decide what is the right one. What are the right opportunities? And we go and pursue those. So can you elaborate on exactly that? Because I often feel like I just don't know where to start. I mean, I want to build a billion dollar business. I want to be successful. I want to look gorgeous in the morning. Where do I start? Where do you, where did you begin to build the roadmap for a billion dollar business? You don't build the roadmap for a billion dollar business? You don't build a roadmap for a billion. I think I'm going to say like the same answers. You don't build a roadmap for a billion dollar business. You build a roadmap for, for the first milestone. Right. And so I would say the way that I like to do it is when people

even ask me what's like your, you know, you get that question, like what's your 10 year path? Like what's going to happen in 10 years. And especially early stage, like when I was raising capital, they wanted to ask you like, what was your big vision and the big strategy? And I'm like, man, I can't even think about what's like going to happen like the, like the next tomorrow, let alone give you a roadmap of what's going to happen for the next 10 years. I can't think beyond the three-year mark. So I have a huge rule of believing in threes. And you'll see this in a lot of things that I, even we'll talk about it in our roadmap standpoint of like three strategic initiatives for the year. We can't do more than that.

Every day I focus on three needle movers. Our company has three core values. And even from a standpoint of a roadmap, I always focus max on a three-year plan. So don't overthink it. It's just my personal advice. And I'm not saying to not plan a really, don't plan to have a big billion dollar business or a large exit.

But I think that you have to focus on what's ahead and still be far enough. So you don't want to be so close to the goal that's like, here's your achievable target. You want to stretch. You want to try to push for what's ahead. And for me, what always worked was that three-year initiative. And I'm like, okay, here's where we are now.

Here's where we have to be three years from today. And as a CEO, that is where I need to be. I need to be thinking three years from now and not in today while everybody else is helping me focus on the today. And my mind is at the three year mark. And so that's kind of how I digested it, but the market changes. So I don't care if you have the most perfect, you know, 10 year plan or the investors are excited and here's your pro forma and here's a plan is just a plan. It's all about execution. There is no such thing as a billion dollar idea, only a billion dollar execution. And every entrepreneur, it doesn't matter if you have a billion dollar exit,

a hundred million dollar exit, a $20 million exit, or you create an amazing business or you fail and you still had fun doing it. It is still all about the execution every single day. So the plans don't matter. And I know, I'm sorry, Inc. I know this is exactly what this is about. And we do create great plans, but focus, focus, focus on execution. And as entrepreneurs, we find the way to get to that milestone. But I love the honesty because to be honest, I have a really hard time with 10 year plans. I'm always like, oh, you don't need it. I actually, even as an investor now on the other side, I ask, you know, the questions to, you know, to companies that we're investing in. And I don't pay, honestly, I think I've seen the most

ridiculous plans on paper. I don't know if we have like venture capitalists or investors in the room, but you can come to me and tell me that you're going to be like the next whatever. And here's like, I can make a spreadsheet, say anything. Like I can make a spreadsheet, say anything. I could say I'm going to have X amount of partners and X amount of customers and X amount of whatever. None of it matters. What matters is the execution. So when I talk to entrepreneurs, I ask for what was their last year's, what was their last year's plan? What was their, their annual operating plan and how do they perform against their annual operating plan? Because what that tells me as an investor or somebody I'm about to sit on the board for or advise a company or mentor a company is, is this entrepreneur actually about execution?

Because I'm not going to put a plan in place that I don't execute. That is one thing that I am very, very proud of. And I think successful entrepreneurs are proud of. I will not put a plan in place. I never missed a single board objective or a single board pro forma. So like, if I'm going to put a plan in place, I'm going to be on plan, if not ahead of plan. So you want to also deliver upon a plan that you are under promising and over executing. And maybe that's just like the, like the girl in me. And we can talk about that because as women, we don't get badges of honor for our potential. We are given badges for what we've done. And so I've gotten used to having to prove my level of execution. And so that's probably some PTSD in there, but, but focus on execution.

And I think as an investor, or if you're sitting on a board and you're mentoring somebody, those are the things that I look for is you said you were going to do this. How did you actually perform against that? So can I ask, when you're looking at creating this plan, who do you go to? Because I often feel like the team and I, we're executing, but we may not know what we need to know to go from C to A or how to even grow in certain channels in certain markets. So do you go to your team or did you seek out people who may not be in your Rolodex to help you out? I love this question. All of it. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. I fully believe

in the power of going together and not staying in your silo. And as entrepreneurs, it is the loneliest thing that you're ever going to do. It is super, supero. And as entrepreneurs, it is the loneliest thing that you're ever going to do. It is super, super lonely. And you want to surround yourself with supporting people. And supporting people come and look differently for every entrepreneur. So for me, I sought amazing mentorship.

So I did have some key mentors in my life that are still mentors in my life from a very early stage. And they were entrepreneurs. So they were entrepreneurs that weren't, you know, that were a few steps ahead of me. So they'd already been where I wanted to go. A lot of the times we're seeking advice from people who haven't actually been where we want to go. And that's inspirational or that's aspirational or we can, there's other things that those relationships can bring us. But I want to actually seek advice from somebody who is sitting in that driver's seat and who knows what's

happening. And I love like there's, you know, mentorship is a huge part of it, but seek mentors who are actually still driving, because it's one thing that I can have an amazing mentor who's exited a company and is out of the game. But 10 years ago, marketing, digital marketing looked completely different. And so what worked for the CEO of X blank blank, who's, you know, was exited and done, it was not actively running a business today, is not going to support my current business, because the landscape has changed so much. It doesn't have to be like, it's not about the vanity of the mentor. Okay. And I think sometimes we seek the van, like a lot of vanity metrics and as, as, as founders really focus on finding key people who've been where you want to go.

And that's what it was for me, uh, is finding mentors who, uh, you know, one of my mentors, Asif, I just mentioned him. He had, you know, he was building his, his payments companies. He was literally in my field. He ended up exiting his company for $515 million to world pay. And it becomes, and it was, and this happened while he was scaling and we were scaling. And so he was always a few steps ahead. And that was incredible. But mentorship also comes in these advisors, not everything, everyone is going to be everything to you. So we have these huge levels of expectations that we need this. Like one, there's no magic wand when it comes to mentorship or strategic advice. Build your network.

And that's why I really believe in like, honestly, I have met and your peers can become your mentor too. Actually, I have a fun story to share. I was just talking earlier to the Inc team team. And last year or two years ago, I was on a panel with Rachel Rogers and Arlen Hamilton. And it was an amazing conversation. It was such a fun panel that we had. And we left, we met, we met here at South by Southwest through Inc. Founders House. And they have actually become really not like really great friends of mine. And I've gone to go speak at their conferences.

I just left Rachel's in Puerto Rico. I'm going to go see Arlen in LA. She was here yesterday at Inc. Founders House. And we seek that peer mentorship. When things are happening, we can seek advice from each other. But it wouldn't have happened if we stayed just behind our screens. And I really want to encourage the entrepreneurs of today. Over the last decade, I say yes. It is not a popular thing for the entrepreneurs of today over the last decade. I say, yes,

it is not a popular thing for the generation of today to say, yes, I love boundaries. I think we should all be supportive of our boundaries, but if you want to go far, you have to be willing to get in the room. You have to be willing to be the first in line. You have to be willing to be the last out the door and you just have to be at places as well without a, without the transactional element of why you're there. Like you, you can just meet people and build relationships and a huge part of the network that I have built. I would not be here without that network. And it looks across so many different things. It looks like peers. It looks like advisors. It looks like strategic partnerships and relations, but it's all been forged

through meeting humans and having a real human to human interaction and having it without an ask. Who wants to come to be like, oh, well, you just mentor me. Oh, can you give me, that's not how advice works and getting strategic guidance work. It works because you build real relationships and you give and you give and you connect. And then guess what? Then you're like, okay, here, when you've reached out your hand to help somebody, guess what? Someone's going to reach out their hand and give it right back. And maybe that's also like the immigrant kid in me, but that is how I grew up. And I do believe that is a huge part of why I'm here today. One of the things that I really loved learning about you was how deliberate and conscious you were in the decision that you make.

And one of those decisions was after Stacks became a unicorn, you deliberately decided that you were going to exit. Yes. And I want to know to what extent did that play a factor with your roadmap? So not so much your corporate roadmap, but like your personal roadmap. I love the personal roadmap question. It is so important that as founders and as entrepreneurs, you do have a personal roadmap as well because you can get so lost. And I will be honest with all of you here. I'm a very open and vulnerable person. You will learn this about me very quickly.

I was not happy. I was so burnt out in my role as well. I created a business. It's my firstborn. It was my actual firstborn. And then I had my babies. I have two daughters, Mila and Anna. They're like the light of my lives. And it was so difficult going through, of course, like this huge journey as an entrepreneur. We look back now

and we're like, wow, we built a billion dollar business and exited it. And it's amazing. We made history and all the things, but I lost the last decade of my life as well in this business. And I wouldn't change any of it. I wouldn't change a thing at all. However, I felt like I was pressing against milestones because everybody told me I should versus really asking myself what I really wanted. So I really wanted my business to be successful. I had huge plans and visions and roadmaps for it and things were happening and things were happening and we're, you know, go-getters and we're like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But it comes to a certain point that you're just kind of in that motion of going and what's it all for? Because when I started the business, it was all about solving a problem. It was about,

it was about freedom, right? It was about freedom of dollar. That's one of the reasons why you started a business. And there's no shame in saying that, but freedom of time was about freedom of dollar that's one of the reasons why you started a business and there's no shame in saying that but freedom of time was also very important to me and it was actually really interesting when I had when I had freedom of time I didn't have freedom of dollar and when I got freedom of dollar I had no freedom of time right and I mean I started the business that I was 25 years old 26 years old and so but I did I it was that's all I did that I was 25 years old, 26 years old. And so, but I did, I, it was, that's all I did. So I was very focused on execution. And I do believe that was the results of that. But at a certain point it was like, here's another plan. Here's another plan. Here's another plan because we should versus I never got a chance to really ask myself, do I want more? Am I really happy at

this point now? And the business was also changing. It's exciting. It's an amazing company. I built it and I'm such, I'm the biggest champion of this business. But I also lost that passion for that early stage of what I was solving for. We were solving for different styles of customers. We moved into the enterprise segment. It just became a different company. And so I actually took a, like post the unicorn. So the unicorn was like a big moment, right? Like every entrepreneur dreams of this moment. And it wasn't just like, I won't swear, I'll say it wasn't a BS valuation. And I don't want to say to discount some of the companies that have come and you get, you know, it was, yes, the market was at its prime

and things like that. We crossed over $140 million in recurring revenue. So it was based on what we had built. And we did our Series D funding. There was primary capital, secondary capital. It was such a huge moment for the Orlando community, a huge moment for our team, for our investors. We made over 30 millionaires across our, our, our, you know, our, our teams. It was, it was the most incredible feeling to feel like, you know,

you accomplish it and you check it off. And I had all of these, you just imagine it to be so big. And it was so big. And in that moment, it was everything, but within a, and everybody covered it and it was all the press and the interviews and the celebrations and all the things and the big party. And then a week later it was done. So like a decade of my life of all the things of everyone's lives of all for that moment in time for that, for that, for that week. And then what? And then when I get another plan, I was like, Oh, here, we're going to take it from a billion to two. And for me, I felt the most emptiest that I had felt was post unicorn because I'm like, now what? That's what I was supposed to go achieve. That was what I was supposed to go do. But what happens when you actually land on the moon? Right. The fun is also trying to get there.

And when you actually achieve the goal, I felt, I literally went into this like huge internal dialogue. I was very mental. It was really hard for me post achieving the success because I was like, what's next for me? Did I just accomplish this to be a billion dollar founder? And that's when I was like, something has to be more. So I like did what every founder does.

Like I went to Europe, we took a sabbatical. I like spent time with my kids and it was amazing. Uh, and I decided I was like, okay, I'm not going to do anything further. And I came back and I was like, look, I think it's time that I move on as CEO. And we have an amazing CEO in place today and the company's doing incredible, but it was time that my journey came to a close. And then I swore it off and I said, I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever start a business again. And I like, we're launching our new company tomorrow.

So it legit, it literally is actually gonna get covered by you'll see the press headlines from Inc tomorrow, but we are launching our next company. And I say our, it's actually my brother and I didn't get a chance to share that. I started the company with my brother and it's really fun to have an awesome co-founder. So you do it again. So just check yourself in that journey and the roadmap. The life roadmap is more important than the work roadmap. We're going to take a quick break and be back with more from Ayesha and Sunira.

I love how honest and transparent you are. And one of the things I'm hoping to learn from you today is about a time when you were working with Stats and you felt like, wow, this is not going at all how I expected it to go. Can you share a little bit more about that and how you handled it? I would say there's many of those moments moments like for every founder and for every company, but I wouldn't change any of it. So like I would say just believe in like one of the stories that comes to mind immediately is we got an offer to sell the company. We finished our series, our seed funding, and I think we had done like a $5 million seed. And we got an offer for a $17 million acquisition that came into play. And it was the first time in my life that I like saw something real on paper. And we had so large ownership of the company. Like it was just our first, you know, round of funding.

So my partner and I still owned a majority of the company, etc. And it was just our first, you know, round of funding. So my partner and I still owned a majority of the company, et cetera. And it was real. It was real to take this offer or not. And it was our first time that we actually had a true board of directors in place. And I came back and, you know, we called a board meeting and I said, look, here is what we have. It's from a strategic and everybody got so excited about this strategic acquisition opportunity so as the people-pleasing woman that i am i'm like oh my god like sure if they're excited i trust their opinions and these are really smart intelligent white men around me that know exactly what they're doing i should totally i should totally look into this strategic

acquisition. So I went down the path, even though in my heart and my gut, I was like, we just raised this. It's too soon for an offer. Should I really do this? And my partner and I were like, ah, it's like, okay, let's just at least what's the worst in entertaining something. So we go down, we entertain the, the acquisition, we go through diligence. But once you kind of get into it, all the parties get really involved from, you know, I've been on now both sides of the sell and on the acquiring side as well. So everybody started getting really excited and the board got really excited. And it's not their fault. They were amazing.

And I really joke and all my investors know how much I love them. And actually some of my, the same investors are actually back on my cap table this time. So they're the most amazing men in the business. So we actually got around the table and they were like, you should, we need to take this. We need to take this deal. And on my gut just kept leaning. No, it was like, don't do it. Don't do it. It's too early. And I ended up saying I didn't want to do it. And I got a lot of pushback. And there was actually this whole board like this. They thought it was crazy.

They were like, we're getting double the value. We're getting your and you're crazy because you're getting all like you're getting a great liquid option. And then you'll be able to roll into this large company who's going to become the next billion dollar company. We should you should put your wagon on that wagon because their company is going to be successful. And I just knew in every moment, Aisha, that this was not what I wanted to do. It was not right for the company. And at the end of the day, the values, like it all comes down to, and I know

that you were going to ask about core values today, the value alignment with that company just was not there. So even I could have gotten on board with so many other things. Again, you know this about me. It's like the human, I got to feel it and I did not feel it. So I said, we're not going to do it. And at the time I did own, we did have a majority of the board seats. We did have a majority from a shareholder perspective. So I did have to, we did not end up doing the acquisition. And it was like probably one of the hardest things I had to do because I had to let people down. I had to say, I had to let everybody down. And as a woman, that is like literally the hardest thing. We will literally take every single thing to not cause anybody an ounce of like remorse or pain or anything. And I made that call and I said, we're not going to do it. And literally three months

later, we like got an act, like we got another offer and it was at $50 million, not $17 million. And the same investors that were on that, on that round, we ended up helping them, like they exited at like a 200 million valuation around our series C. So they made 18 times their money than they would have at the two times. So it was the right decision. So listen to your gut, right? Like that is honestly in your roadmap of tying this back to the roadmap. The plan can say anything like it's your gut, trust your gut as well, and really, really lean into it. So if your intuition, your spidey senses are going off good or bad, do it. Like that's also the fun of being an entrepreneur. You get to take risks. So don't play it safe. If you really

want to have a billion dollar business, you don't play it safe. You take big bets. I could have exited at many times along the way, but we wanted to grow as big as we could. So take those risks. So I want to dive into values and I want to know a little bit about how you prioritize and how do you use your roadmap to prioritize? Because I feel like every single day, there's a billion things for me to do. Some of them are, you know, high potential and really, really long term. Some of those are immediate and near term and all seem very scary. How do you use your personal roadmap to balance? Okay, I'm a huge, I'm like the most productive human you will ever meet. And I will say that and you can, I will accept any challenge any day, anywhere, but I am very strategic about my time and how I spend my time. And that is how we all need to be our time. Again, going back to the freedom of time,

that is literally the most, that is all we have. And so one being strategic about what goes on for the, like for your business. And as a CEO, your number one job is prioritization. You need to say like prioritize so that you can hold your team accountable and prioritize. And so it's really important that you do, and we can get into the tactical part of this is where CEO school comes in. And I love it. And we have a huge community of female entrepreneurs and we get to do this and the planning sessions and all the stuff. And it's not just for me, it's for the most amazing female mentors that supports, and sorry guys, it is for women.

You have to do your annual planning, right? So you've got to do your annual planning and get that plan in place. And you want to be very focused on what are the top three things we're going to accomplish this year. So going back to the three, then every quarter, like at the start of the quarter, I do that planning session again to say, what are the three most important things that we need to do this quarter? And it always goes back to what is going back to on that roadmap from a milestone perspective. So if there is new opportunity, then what else has to go? So the challenge is when we keep adding, then you just

have a bunch of stuff that doesn't get done, right? We have like things don't get done unless you make it an actual focus from your standpoint from your team standpoint from everyone's standpoint if everyone rallies around that one thing that thing 100 gets done and it doesn't just get done it gets done well right so i have the standard of excellence that i have in the things that i do so i don't want to just do it for the sake of doing it so i'm very intentional about what we put on our roadmap whether that's a strategic roadmap, product roadmap, life roadmap, et cetera. But you've got to have a plan of what are the top

three things every quarter. And then it kind of translates down. I do this monthly and I even do it daily. So I have my needle movers like every day. So if you follow me on social media, you will see, I literally do my, I do my journal and in my journal every day, I write down my top three needle movers because our to-do list is endless. You're never going to have a completed to-do list. Like you're just not, there's always more to do. There's always so much to improve upon. And especially in 2024, I mean, with like, we have so much access to see also all the, all the things that we're missing out on, right. Or we're not doing well or like good enough. And so we're in this constant state of also comparison when it comes to our competitors, when it comes to social media, when it comes to all the things you have

to like remove all that distraction and say, what are the things that I'm going to stay focused on for my plan? And if you get ideas and you get things, that's great. I a hundred percent believe you can't be what you can't see. That is truly important. So when I see, uh, you know, um, Whitney Wolf bring the, you know, ring the IPO bell, sure as hell, I'm like, you know what? I can do that too. Right. And it does, it leaves that. So none of it's bad, but it's about deciding what is on today's roadmap as well. And so every day I focus on what are my top three needle movers that I've got to get done today. And that's what I go and get the hard job, like hard tasks done first. So it's not like novel advice.

It's like the same advice that like your grandpa would give you. So just focus, just stay focused on your needle movers and be strategic about what you say yes to. So saying no is important. And I know I kind of like, I'm talking from both sides because I said to say yes. Okay. I want you to say yes to relationships. Okay.

I think that that is really important and i really do i fear for what's ahead in business for my daughters because of how transactional the world has become so say yes to things that are going to fulfill your cup and that you can bring that energy in person i see some beautiful faces that i already recognize that i've that i've made relationships with just by being at these events over the last several years. So say yes to that and be intentional with the human side of business. But you have to be able to also have that power

as a CEO to say no. No to things that don't align with your values, your customer objectives, your product objectives. And saying no is also a really important tool. So stay productive, say yes to those things. And then I honestly just, I'm a time hacker. And so I can give you like a million tips on time hacking, but I literally am always on the go doing a million things. But I do have downtime too. So I do, there's a time for work and then I fully turn off when it's

not time for work. So work is at work and I really, really work hard at work and I play hard as well. For those who are in CEO school, I'm curious. When I sat down and I created my list of goals, I had roughly 20 things that I wanted to execute for this year, but none of them actually involved taking care of myself. Do you have maybe three areas or something that you want people to focus on prioritizing? Yeah, absolutely. And you're not going to do the 20 things as much as I love you. And I want you to succeed at all the 20 things you might, and you might do a little bit of those 20 things, but I'm all about, especially in this, like maybe the 20s in me was different, but the late 30s in me now, I really want quality over that quantity.

And so I would rather do those three things extremely well than try to accomplish all those 20 things. So I'm going to take a moment to remove those 17 other things. And you have to really ask yourself, what are the three things that really... And then as soon as you get one done, let's say you're super productive in this quarter, you do accomplish that thing, then add the other thing. I call it a parking lot. Like you have your parking lot board of ideas. As soon as ideas come in place, put them in your parking lot, right? And then you can add them back in.

But when it comes to the personal space of it, you will never have the time ever. So I hear so often from my friends, from female, from entrepreneurs, especially women, and especially I'm a mother and it is so, it's so difficult to juggle all the things. And it's like, how do you find the time? It doesn't exist. There is no such thing as finding the time. You have to make the time for what is important. And so I am definitely an avid. I, if it's not on my calendar, it's not happening. I've tried all the greatest of tools, but nothing greater than just your simple Google calendar. And I do make the time. I prioritize what is important.

And the way I do it, I call it like my three bucket principle. Again, going back to the threes. I have a thing here for this. But in your life, like you can only manage, like I was tired of chasing this work-life balance. Okay, so everywhere I went, I was like work-life balance and all like the panels I used to go to and the women that I used to watch were like, how do you achieve work-life balance? Especially as a mother, how do you achieve work-life balance as a founder?

All the things. There is no such thing as work-life balance. I don't know who wrote this book and said that there is work-life balance. There isn't. But I like what I figured out is work-life integration. Okay. And that is what works well for me. And it's not putting the pressure. I was putting the pressure on every day when you think of balance. So think about your three buckets in your life and I'll share what my buckets are. My bucket was always stocks. And now it's, it's, it's my, my new company that's

launching tomorrow. It's called worth. You'll hear about it very shortly. And so that my company is a bucket. Okay. Then my family is a bucket. Like that is, it should be, it should be the other way. Sorry. My family is no, in no, in no particular order. Sorry, Basil. So in no particular order, you have your three buckets. So I had my company, my family, and then I had this bucket of like in 2020, when the pandemic happened, I started CEO school, which is a podcast, by the way. So you guys should all subscribe to the podcast. Um, and we have a huge community of female entrepreneurs in it and CEO school became a bucket. So I only have three buckets. Everything else is a no. So when I started to get asked to sit on other boards, I started to get asked for community stuff, other things. I did not have

space because I intentionally focused on there's three buckets that I can fill. Okay. So family work and CEO school, my three buckets where I'm going to pour my energy. But here's the, here's like the thing that I figured out was everybody always, I felt so guilty about trying to balance it every day. When honestly, I don't need to have an everyday perfect balance. Cause I will be like today I'm at Inc founders house and I traveled, I don't need to have an everyday perfect balance because I will be like today I'm at Inc. Founders House and I traveled. I'm going to be away from the kids. I'm heading tomorrow to New York to go launch the companies. I'm filling these buckets, right? But where's my family bucket? I'm going to kill myself. I'm going to try to figure out how to do all this stuff for

the kids today. It's not going to happen. But if I zoom out by the end of the week and every bucket does not have to have the same level of water as well, right? So I know what buckets I need, like completely full. And so through the week, it's how do I ensure that I can fill those buckets? So if I am fully like putting my cup into my company bucket over the next two days, then where is my balance to ensure that I am filling my family bucket as well? And so I became really intentional about what, how that timing and things look like, but it wasn't about every single day. It was my weekly

zoom out that I would do for the week. And then I'm going to, I'm sorry, I'm going to add another thing really fast here. And then I realized that I wasn't actually making any time for myself because I was filling all the buckets with my family and the work and all of like the, the impact that I wanted to make. And here's where it kicked in. I am part of my family and the work and all of like the impact that I wanted to make. And here's where it kicked in. I am part of my family. I belong in my family. So I need to also fill my cup in that bucket. So every single week on Sunday, my husband and I have this process. He's also an entrepreneur, by the way, it's not a very successful one. So we sit down and we also have help. So I do want to ensure that I do say ask for help and every place that I can save time. Like I want to be doing my thousand dollar tasks,

not my $10 task. And my thousand dollars task was like cooking with my family. Yes, I can outsource that, but I don't want to, that is my family. That is my thousand dollar task. So I'm focused on making sure that through the week I'm filling those buckets. So on Sundays we do our, we do a Sunday family meeting and now Mila, uh, she knows how to write now. So on Sundays, we do a Sunday family meeting. And now Mila, she knows how to write now. So she takes our notes as a family. And we talk about what's ahead, what's happening for the week, and how we incorporate them.

My kids literally show up. I take them out of school all the time. This is just how it works in our life. And they travel with me. And so whenever weeks are looking like crazy, I have a rule. I won't stay away from home for more than two nights. But if I have to stay away from home for more than two nights, they're going to come with me. And so whenever like weeks are looking like crazy, I have a rule. I won't stay away from home for more than two nights, but if I have to stay away from more than home for more than two nights, they're going to come with me too. And I'm not afraid of, you know, asking my mom or getting help from a friend or having the nanny and all the things, but it is really about

integration and it's a wild and crazy full life. And, but I'm really happy doing it the way that I'm doing so just balance is bullshit and I'm still really ambitious like I have a lot of stuff I want to do let's talk about that so you made the conscious decision to exit stacks I want to understand how did you come to the decision are there things that you would suggest that people specifically do in order to figure out how to find the roadmap for them? I have a really quick formula on when to quit or when to leave or when it's time, right? When is the time formula? So the time is when your bad days start outweighing your good days. So as an entrepreneur, you're still going to have, we're all going to have bad days, whether you're, this is even for advice for, you know, people in the workforce, you're going to have bad days where humans life is hard. You're going to

have bad days. So you're going to have bad days and you're going to have good days and your good ways should good days should be outweighing your bad days. But when your bad days start to actually outweigh your good days, that's when you know that something is off balance and it's time. Sanira, I really want to know, what's your next move when it comes to building your personal roadmap? Okay, I think it's all the things. I mean, in my personal roadmap, one advice that I do have that I learned later was, especially as female founders, we're so tied to our company and any founder in and of itself, you need to establish yourself separately than your work as well. And so my, my worth was tied to my work. I could not separate it. Even after leaving Stacks, I swear I went through like such

a huge identity crisis. It's only been a year and a half. And I'm excited for like, hopefully now to not talk about stacks in my past really soon, because it's really hard for people to identify you other than your work. And I wish somebody had given me the advice. And I started the podcast in 2020, but I learned that as women, like we have to be able to establish our own brands.

And in 2024 today, you have to have your own personal identity as a personal brand outside of just your work brand itself. And mine was very muddled and integrated with just my work. And so I think on my future roadmap now is to ensure that Sanira Madani stands on her own outside of the businesses that she builds. It's outside of what I do from a work standpoint. And I can incorporate that into my personal brand and my story, but I do want to establish, I want to have my own identity outside of being with all the labels that society wants to put on me as an entrepreneur, as a mother,

as a minority woman, all the things. There's a lot of pressure in all of those also to represent all of the different labels that I wear. But this time I want to hopefully find my own space in my own path. So that's on my personal kind of vulnerable thing I'll share with you here. I want that for myself. Well, I think that's a beautiful response and an excellent way to wrap up the session. And I think the crowd and I all agree that Sunira more than certainly stands on her own. Thank you so much for joining us for this session, and I wish you all a great day. That's all for this episode of Your Next Move. Our producer is Matt Toder. Editing and sound design by Nick Torres. Executive producer is Josh Christensen. If you haven't already, subscribe to Your Next Move on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

Your Next Move is a production of Inc. and Capital One Business.