Your Next Move - Disrupting Industries and Creating New Categories

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

Breaking into established markets requires strategic vision, passion, and relentless execution. This episode explores how to spot opportunities and think like a disrupter. It features insights from Olipop’s Ben Goodwin and Netic’s Melisa Tokmak, two founders who’ve scaled their businesses by challenging traditional industries and introducing consumers and clients to innovative alternatives.

Growing a business sometimes means taking a leap long before you feel ready. That's what Hayden Wadsworth, Capital One business customer and co-founder of Hydrojug learned when he and his brother Jake launched a reusable water bottle brand from their parents' garage. Starting with three colors and a nerve-wracking 3,000 unit order, digital ads help them scale fast. 100,000 in year one, 1 million in year two, quickly outgrowing the garage and pushing the to sign their first warehouse lease. Through that rapid growth, they relied on their Capital One business credit card and cashback rewards on ads spent to help fund the move and keep momentum strong.

Learn more at Capital One.com slash business cards. I guess one way to answer your question is I've come to the end of it. Not that I'm retiring, but I've done probably the, work I was meant to do on this planet. I'm KC. Feiny and this is Creative Control. Each month, I'll be interviewing your favorite celebrities and creators to unpack what's at the intersection of creativity, business, and brand building. In this episode, a conversation with Bob's Berger's creator, Lauren Bouchard.

According to Lauren Bouchard, you can either go the formal route of establishing a creative career or just make shit. Both have their merits to be sure, but Lauren would argue, and I would have to agree, that making shit is a true superpower. Lauren is a creator of Bob's Burgers, which, over the course of its 15-year run, has become one of the most beloved animated series on TV. But Lauren will be the first person to tell you that as a high school dropout with no formal training in animation, his path to creating Bob's Bergers was anything but conventional.

In our conversation, we impact Lauren's unlikely journey to becoming one of animation's top showrunners, what it really takes to build work that lasts, and what keeps his creative passion burning for a project that's lasted more than 15 years. But as always, I like to start at the beginning with my guests. So I asked Lauren, what was his first memory of doing something creative? That's a fun question. I should be able to go pretty far back.

As a preamble, I'll say this. I really was very much raised to do this. job. You know how like in the movies when they like the dad takes the girl out into the frozen pundra and teaches her like survival skills? And then by the time she's ready to face the bad guys like she knows everything there is about how to build a bear trap or whatever. That's kind of- Are you thinking of Hannah? Yeah. Yeah, I am. You are Hannah. Got it. Because my mother was a writer and my dad was a painter and they both

love music, and so in a lot of ways, even though no one was in animation, I was being groomed by them by accident to be in animation. So it really is, I think about it a lot, how I was, all the things they were doing and then encouraging me to do were really setting me up to have fun and thrive in, once I dropped into animation. So, early as creative thing, I mean, I definitely, I don't know if this counts as creative, but I saw the movie Rocky when I was probably six years old, and I wrote Rocky on all the furniture in my room. So graffiti is your first creative.

Vandalism is your first act of creative. And spelled wrong. How did you spell it? I added an E. Oh, Lauren, come on now. It's not as if it's not big block letters on the movie poster, It's fine. It's fine. We learn from our mistakes. Yeah, not smart. Not right. Yeah.

That's so funny. So, you know, I mean, so the story goes, because obviously you mentioned, you know, this amazing foundation and your parents, like, really giving you a lot of ammunition for your creativity. But, you know, the story goes that you actually dropped out of high school and eventually wound up bartending. And when you're around early 20s, you know, you bumped into your old science teacher. and that science teacher just so happened to be Tom Snyder, the eventual pioneer of Squiggle Vision, that's amazing technique where the characters always look like they're shaking and moving. And he, of course, was the eventual founder of the studio Soup to Nuts,

which turned into Tom Snyder Productions, which he invited you to work at, which I think is incredible. So it's like here you are, this young 20-something-year-old high school dropout, sort of trying to figure out life, and here you have this amazing opportunity, that just sort of, that just plops into your lap. So I'd love it if you sort of take me back to that moment. I love reflecting on this kind of moment in my life.

And I have kids now and I like talking to them about it. Because what I wanted and what I ended up with, you know, once I was 18, 19, 20 years old, was, we're so dramatically different. I had removed from my life the opportunities for luck by not finishing. school and not going to college. I had, I shrank things down. And my mother had died. My dad was wonderful, but didn't have any stents of access. He always was a outsider himself, kind of a guy really, a self-made guy who came from, you know, really working class roots. So, and he himself did not do a ton of schooling. And I was doing work. I was doing, like, on the side, you know, I'm bartending,

and then I'm taking writing classes and I'm, you know, like adult ed type classes. And I'm drawing kind of seriously, but I was very, I knew I had something to say. I was recording a lot of music on a four track. I knew I was a, I felt deeply, deeply creative and deeply, deeply committed to letting that out. I had a sense that I was this guy who was kind of prepared for that. I kind of been set out into the world with this idea that I would be a guy who would write short stories or write songs, something. And yet what I had found myself at that age when all my friends are in college, most of my friends are in college, and I'm bartending and I became really worried that I had shut all these doors without meaning to, but now what? Now what do you do? And I remember even realizing that animation might have been such a cool thing, but it felt so far away.

It was like, you know, roughly 88 when The Simpsons came out. I'm 18 years old. You know, I was working nights, but I would set up the VHS recorder, and I'd watch, and I remember thinking like, this is drawing, this is music, this is writing. How cool that somebody gets to use all those three things. That could be a thing that I could have done if I didn't exist on an island, you know, which is what I felt like. in Boston, Massachusetts, with no education and no access, I felt like I had no chance of ever doing something like that. So that's me walking around every day,

and in particular, on this one particular day in Harvard Square, my memory is I'm going to get art supplies. So I guess I was still trying to draw it. And I come out and I run into this guy, Tom Snyder, who was my science teacher when I was in grade school. And he'd stayed in touch and I'd worked a summer at his education, educational software company. He'd left teaching, but, you know, he'd gone on to a lot of success in educational software, and he'd been very, very kind to me after my mother died and still friendly

with my dad, who was a teacher at that school, too. So I think it was very natural for him to say, hey, you know, do you still draw? Do you want a job? He was just a good guy who gave people jobs. Under other circumstances, it might have been just a normal opportunity, like a nice thing for someone to say. But in that situation, Given where I was, I knew. I knew in that moment, and I knew every day after that moment that I had become incredibly, almost stratosphericly lucky. And that Tom was going to open the door for all the things I wanted to do.

And that he and I were going to be able to put me back together, the version of me that I had in my head, but had been sort of sanded down by, you know, a lot of hours attending bar and feeling lost. And then, you know, here he just could see me the way I had been. And that's exactly what I wanted to be. So I jumped in. I knew it was beyond lottery lucky. Like, truly, truly, truly, if I didn't know him, I don't know how my life would have turned out. Very, very different.

No, 1,000 percent. And I just want to take a second because what you said, I think, I got a little choked up, but not going to lie. You said, you know, you said that it put you back together into the version of the person that you wanted to be. And I think that that is absolutely. It just kind of speaks volumes to you have no idea, like, how you can impact someone's life. Because I kind of feel like he could have just been like, oh, you know, hey, Lauren, good to see you. Like, you know, say hi to your dad for me. And like, that's it.

But he offered you this. and like now look at where you're at. So I just think that that's such a beautiful, beautiful thought. And I'm curious, like this very non-traditional way that you entered into the animation industry. I mean, in what way do you think that has really shaped your career? When I talk to people about how to get into this industry, I always try and remind people that there are kind of too big choices.

there's like through channels and then there's make shit. And make it is like just kind of a superpower in a way. It can be a little lonely, it can be a little scary. But what we were doing, what Tom championed at that, you know, the size of the company we were, which was very small. And because we were in Boston, we weren't in New York or L.A., it really was, let's just make stuff. let's just get together and what we think sounds good

and if it's like if it's you're doing a little bit of this and I'm doing a little bit of this and he's doing a little bit of this that made sense to us. It was very collaborative and improvisational and literally improv like the actors were improvising

but also the act of making it was improvisatory and it was very I sort of equated now when I look back on like being in a band or something like like that. Where you've got to figure each other out and who's good at what. And of course, you have some specialization so you're not all truly doing everything. I didn't draw after the first couple times that I tried to help out on the drawing side. It wasn't what I was going to be

useful at, but I would stay up all night editing the audio. I loved editing audio. And so we specialized, but it wasn't like a bigger company or like a production in LA where you have all these defined roles and really defined paths, and you might even have trade organizations that are training you, and you can do that. If you are like, you know, like, for example, writers can do the job of being a writer and never do another job. And it's not frowned upon, nobody comes, you know, nobody in L.A. says, you're a writer. What else are you? They say, you know, but where we were coming from, it was, you would almost certainly be, and this was on a hundred percent. true. We did have a couple

folks who just wrote, but mostly you were really going to be writing, but also directing, but also editing, et cetera, et cetera. So what I would say to answer your question is, I now am very grateful that I did all those

jobs from the beginning before I started the kind of maybe what you might call the high-profile jobs of writing and creating a show and running. And so, again, just to get back to your question,

which I think is terrific, I do gently push people in the direction of the non-traditional channels of the make-shit school of work. Because if you are interested in that showrunner game, then you'll be in great shape. you'll have done all these other jobs and it will seem very natural to you.

You'll just become the showrunner you were always meant to be over several years. I also don't think people should be offered that gig when they're young. That's a, you know, I feel very bad for anyone who has that job in their 20s and I might even feel bad for people who try to do that job in their 30s.

I was thrilled when I didn't have Bob's until I was sporting. That was the big leagues and the scale of Bob's had an experience before. I'd run shows. in fact, in my 20s and in my 30s, but they were so small that it was manageable. That's a perfect segue into Bob's Berger's. Because, again, like, this show has just taken on such a life of its own, and it feels, it's one of those shows, like, where you just know that it's special.

Like, it has such a unique perspective and such a unique voice. And, you know, as I was saying before, we hopped on this. because I, this is like a comfort show for me. For those who aren't aware, how would you describe Bob's Burgers? Because there's this, there's still some people who don't know the show exists, which is crazy to me. So from the creator, how would you describe Bob's Burgess as someone who's never seen the show? Okay.

I think it is very accurate to simply describe it in some ways as exactly what it is, which is it is a story about a family that runs a restaurant. we were so glad that that didn't already exist. Or I should say I was so glad. When I pitched that, I had been thinking about it. I knew it was something I was interested in as a storyteller. And I was like, I can't believe this doesn't exist. A family sitcom where the kids help the parents run the restaurant.

Because we all know that exists. Right. We all have been in those restaurants. And it's the only really, like, I think, yeah, A workplace comedy and a family sitcom are both great forms, and the fact that you can do them together in a restaurant was helpful. Now, I will say, the next thing we needed to do that I think goes to the core of what the show is

and how I would describe it to someone who's never seen it is, it's on the verge of failure. The restaurant is on the... Neverending tension there. Yeah. And I think that's really important. and I would add, and yet they are happening. It is stressful, but they are not sorry to be in that situation.

They are strivers and dreamers who see this moment in time when the restaurant may or may not succeed as sometimes difficult, sometimes painful, because they can't afford things. They rent their apartment. They don't take vacations. the kids don't have a ton of after-school activities, but they do actually appreciate the moment that they're in

and enjoy the struggle. And that is, I would say, a description of what the show is, aside from the fact that it's animated and no one ever gets older, I think that's a crazy thing that's part of it that, you know, I don't take for granted. We get to tell the story of this family frozen in this moment. They'll never succeed, nor will they fail.

they'll always be in this one year, call it, where the children are 9, 11, and 13, and the parents are in their mid-40s, and they don't know whether they're going to make it. And because we don't have to have characters aging, we don't have to have the clock moving. We just, it's like Groundhog Day where they keep having the same Christmas again

and the same Halloween. And it's just as if they had to do the day over again and with the whole year. And I do think the show benefits from that immensely. How so? Because I feel like that's something that is, I'm so glad that you touched on that because there's a million different floating theories.

Like, are they impergatory? It can get dark when people really dig into, like, how they're reliving, like, every single holiday and whatnot. So I guess for you, like, what makes that such a rich sort of framework for a show? I mean, I've, feel that your connection to the character, you, is partly a function of how well we write any one episode or execute any one joke or get a recording of a line,

get the take we want, but it's also based in time. Time spent for you with that character or the whole family. And that kind of time that we're now dealing with 15 years, that's a crazy amount of time where you get fed new versions of new stories so it scratches that itch. It's not like I've seen this episode,

but you also know that character and you know how they're going to react in most situations, and in fact, you know it really well. You have 15 years of experience watching that show. Not all our fans do, of course, but many do, or at least they have enough

and let's not forget the rewatching. So in some cases, they'll know an episode of Bob's, burgers way, way better than I know. Yes. Like, for me, I'm like, oh, it's dusty. It's a dusty memory. I got to, like, I got to, like, strain to remember what the story was, but for someone

else, they just watched it yesterday. Right, right. Yeah. That's true. And that brings up the whole streaming thing. Yeah, oh, 1,000. Which is a whole other thing. I mean, first there were DVDs, which is wonderful, and that sort of trained us all.

And now it's, like, even more, you know, quick, access. I can, you know, have it on any device and I can have them all without even, you know, for the cost of one subscription. So a lot of things went our way. And I, I know live action people probably on some level would say, well, who says I want to work on the same show for 15 years? Somebody, I don't, I can't speak for everyone. But I imagine there are some folks who are like, no, I'm glad the kids grow up. I'm blessed there than I think. This is a, you know, let's say it's a, you know,

phenomenally successful show and it goes seven seasons. And then it's like, well, I mean, we told our story. And I think for those folks, I would say, absolutely, I totally get it. You get to go and do your next thing. And you don't, you're not shackled to the show forever and ever. It's not a show like, you know, it's not the same. Simpsons, which is going to be 30 years, it's already over 30 years old.

So it's like, it is helpful in some ways to say some folks wouldn't see it as an advantage. But I do love my job. I do love these characters. And I have not noticed, for me, we have not run out of things to say. And so as a result, I would say we're really lucky that we're animated and that we can stay frozen in time. Right. And to that, I mean, I would love to hear a little bit more about what that's like from a creative perspective, because to your point, you get to revisit these characters and put them in different situations. But I'm just curious, like, what is that like as a creative, like revisiting these characters in this moment time and time again for 15 years?

It's probably like being in the Rolling Stones or something. It's probably like being in one of these bands that goes, you know, an extraordinarily long time where it's not. so much that you think you'll write satisfaction again. It's not that you're chasing your greatest hits. It's more than you still like the sound of your band. You still want to play together. You still hear a little something like, I had this idea, and you want to know what the guitar the other guitar is going to do and what the bass is going to do and what the drums are going to do. And you want to know, so I think it's like that. It's like, oh, we have this little bit of an idea. What, yeah, what would Bob do in that situation? Well, that seems sort of

funny. And I think if the day when we are just, we don't think that it seems sort of funny, it will probably be the day we should hang it up, but it's at the moment, it's still tickled our fancy to say like, oh, well, now that that would be fun. What if Linda gets her

boobot in a mammogram machine? Like, now that that's an episode we would like to see. So I think that's the way it works. It's funny. You don't want to, you know, I once heard Tom Petty, not to keep comparing us to classic rock icon. No, you can.

No, no. You've earned it. I don't want. I will say this. I do look at older artists and how they manage their lives once they're not young people anymore. And I am interested in, my ears perk up when I hear somebody sort of looking back on a long career. So, Tom Petty was on the radio before he died, and I heard him while I was driving home. And the interviewer said something about, asked something

about songwriting, and he said, you know, you don't want to look at that one too closely. he said if you're me because you don't you never know when the magic's going to disappear when they're going to stop coming oh wow

and I thought about that at the time and I didn't totally get it I was like no I want to hear what your process is don't hide it from us Tompetti tell us how you write your song but I think what he's now I think back on it and what he's saying is

like on some level if it's working like don't question it just keep doing it for us long as you can. We're going to take a quick break, and when we're back, we'll hear more from Bob Spurger's creator, Lauren Bouchard. When your business starts to grow, sometimes the biggest leap is believing you're ready

for the next one. That's what Emily Warden, Capital One business customer and jewelry maker, discovered when her new storefront drew lines out the door every weekend. Record sales made it clear that it was time to scale. And investing in a full natural diamond collection meant a major upfront. cost. With her Capital One business card, she had the confidence and cashback support to make that investment and meet rising demand. Learn more at Capital One.com slash business cards. And we're back with Warren Bouchard, creator of Bob's Burgers. So if you couldn't tell by now in this interview,

I am a huge Bob's Burgers fan. It is easily one of my top comfort watching shows, so I've easily seen every episode to date way too many times to count. I even have a Cucci Copey toy in my office, I mean, if you know, you know. But one thing I find interesting is that despite having two Emmy Awards out of 16 nominations, a diehard fan base, and being on the air for over 15 years, there are still so many people who have no idea about Bob's burgers. So I asked Lauren where he sees his show within the pop culture landscape. I think there's a couple of ways to answer that, and I'll try both.

for sure we came into this feeling like an underdog in a good way, and we held on to that. And in some ways, the success of the show, it can be something that you squint and it goes away. I mean, obviously, we've been on the air a lot of years. We love winning awards. It's a great pleasure, and it's a great honor. All of those things are great.

and just being nominated. It is truly a great honor. That's not a line. That's a fact. However, I will say we can squint. Everyone who works on this show can pretty easily imagine a world where it doesn't exist.

We're not this foundational show, and it's never been a phenomenon. It's not even the latest phenomenon, nor is it like a bedrock show, like Simpsomber or Mickey Mouse or whatever. It is going to, I think, always probably have this cult quality. And we like that because we want to come from a place of humility. I think we all sort of like it.

You know, it's like that thing where it's like you can make a lot of money, but if you shit your pants. Yeah, exactly. And that's just your human reality coming back to keep you humble. And that's what we put into the show. That's what Bob's kind of is. It is about this pretty humble family with these pretty humble problems

or I shouldn't say massive challenges and a humble approach. And one way we would really get screwed up, I think, is if we were a bigger hit. Then it's like, how do you keep writing? You know, it's hard enough to write the show when everyone's paid off their mortgage or whatever. But it would get even harder

if I think if it was as big as some of the other shows, I'm glad we are, if there's some version of a line and there's pop culture ubiquity, and then there's everything else, we love being down there. That's really nice for us. It's helpful, and I kind of semi-seek it out almost. We try to avoid where we touch that top of that line,

and we feel like we're about to experience what it's like to be The Simpsons or be. Bugs Bunny or whatever, like we are glad when the lights go out and, you know, we fall away from it. And then I guess the other way to answer the question is also, how do we see ourselves in the culture is also just what do we bring? Oh, that is really beautiful. That is really beautiful. And, you know, I know that you probably can't reveal much because you usually do for like at Comic-Con. But what can people expect from season 17? I mean, I already gave you one. It's the Linda's going to get her stuck, her boobs stuck in Amanda. That's real.

I also have to remember now, some of these ones that we're working on will actually get kicked into the next chunk. You know, we've got these shortened seasons now. We're going to be on in the spring, so we're not doing holiday episodes. But we are going to do. Oh, that is a bummer. Oh, my God. Sorry. No, I did hear about the mid-season,

but it just didn't register that, yeah, we're not going to get these iconic holiday episodes. Like that, oh, okay. We're making a short. We are making a short. I personally and all of us collectively really felt bad about this holiday thing. It is so fun to write those and make those and deliver that to an audience that's wanting it. And we just rink up the reaction to every single one of them. It's so fun, and I will say I miss it already, and I hope to get back to it.

But in the meantime, they'll take as many shorts as we can figure out how to make. So this year we did a Christmas one. Next year we'll do a Thanksgiving one, and it's got a big old musical number in it, and it's got heart, and it's got, I think, going to have a production value that we can kind of push a little because it's a short, so we can put those nice shadows on the characters and put a little more love into each background. So that's going to come before anyone sees anything else. I feel like there is so much of you and this show in a way. And I feel like this is your baby.

And this is, it's such a phenomenal piece of work. So I'm just curious, like, how this process of working on Bob's, understanding the reaction that it's had with audiences. Like, how is that, how has that shaped you? How has that changed you? Well, I mean, I think it's an expression of that feeling I had that day that we were talking about, that moment when I was 23 years old

and I knew my life was changing, in a way, I guess one way to answer your question is I've come to the end of it. Not that I'm retiring, but I've done probably the work I was meant to do on this planet. And again, I want this for everyone. I want everyone to know what it feels like because it's so great.

To be doing the work you know you were meant to do, And then to have people receive it with so much love and to give me back so much appreciation and make me feel so good for having stuck with it, this cookie career and this strange fascination with working with John Benjamin and figuring out animated vehicles for his lovely voice. And this is finally arrived.

And I know John feels this way too. It's like, oh, here we are. We put it together this sort of the version that was going to reach this quite large audience. and it's satisfying to us. We're not embarrassed. We're proud of it even. And so you get to some extent,

and I would never say this without knocking on wood, but I'll say on some level you get to this, I could die now moment. I don't feel that way because I have a family. So I'm going to knock on. Please don't. For their sake, for everyone else. Yeah.

I don't feel that way. I do not feel that way about my family life, but I do feel that way creatively. I will go on to do many, many things, and I love my job and I love to continue to work. And I seek out work. I don't want, I have never fantasized about retiring. I've never fantasized about even really slowing down more than a little bit, you know, more than I like to slow down off of the crazy, you know, pace we were at at the beginning because that will kill you. But we're, we've done that. We've had that

for years. So now at this moment, I can say, I can look out and, you know, and say, I am so proud of this and so appreciative of where it works into the audience's life. The letters I've received, I mean, it's just incredible. I'll move to tears regularly. And that satisfaction is profound. And like I said, I want it for everyone. I want everyone to know what that feels like because it is really phenomenal. That is beautiful.

Ah, Lauren, thank you so much for your time. This has been such a lovely conversation. and I'm so honored that I got to dive into your mind for a little bit because, like I said, I've been such a huge fan of your work and I just truly appreciate how thoughtful you've been in what you produce and even in this conversation. I feel like some of the answers you gave have been some of my favorites that I've ever received on this podcast,

like just really, really thoughtful. And yeah, just congratulations. I mean, this is just like, you're many people's heroes based off of what you've created. It's really remarkable. So thank you so much. And yeah,

we're going to very much look forward to the new season of Bobbs because it's, I need it. I need to keep adding it to like... I have to wait a little less than a year. I'm ready. I'm so ready. No, it's fine.

It's fine. Good things come. And that is going to do it for this episode of Creative Control. As always, make sure you support. to the podcast wherever you listen to your podcast. And do not be afraid to leave a comment or two because what?

It is always nice to hear from you. Creative Control is part of the Fast Company Podcast Network. Our show is produced and edited by my very, very patient producer, Blake Odom. Do that, do that, do that, that, that. Okay. With help from Sam Gabower and Miriam Caparice. Mix and sound design is by Nicholas Torres, and our executive producer is Josh Christensen.

Once again, be sure to subscribe to Creative Control on your platform of choice, and I'll see you on the next episode.