Your Next Move - How Sephora body care product line Oui the People built such a loyal community

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

Aisha Bowe talks with Karen Young, CEO and Founder of OUI the People. OUI the People is a body care brand designed around building products that make their customers feel great in their own skin. This episode offers wisdom about how to convert your customer base into a loyal community that builds your brand. Whether it’s building an online community or turning your business into a physical destination for your community, learn what you can learn from your customer base about how best to grow.

With the VentureX Business Card from Capital One, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase. And with no preset spending limit, your purchasing power adapts to meet your business needs. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Find out more at CapitalOne.com slash VentureXBusiness. Terms and conditions apply. I'm Sarah Lynch, and you are listening to Your Next Move,

audio edition, produced by Inc. and Capital One Business. On today's episode, host Aisha Bowe talks with Karen Young, CEO and founder of We The People. We The People is a body care brand designed around building products that make their customers feel great in their own skin. In their conversation, they explore Karen's roots growing up in both Guyana and Brooklyn and how she was able to convert her customer base into a loyal community.

And it all started with a formative experience with a straight razor. But before we get to that interview, I talked with Ami Videk, Vice President of Credit Card, Business Cards, and Payments at Capital One. She shared more insight into how brands can inspire customers to be part of their ecosystem. Ami, thank you for joining us today. Thanks, Sarah. I'm so glad to be here today. Let's talk about some of the elements that make customers want to be part of your brand's ecosystem. One way you can think about this is to ask yourself, what would make you feel like you want to be part of a community?

My guess is you would want to feel like you belong, that you're appreciated by that community, and that it's worth it to be part of the community. You get some benefit from it. When your business can provide that experience for your customers, research has shown they're more likely to be engaged and reward you with their brand loyalty and repeat purchases. So how can small and mid-sized businesses do that? Well, we've heard from small businesses

that most business owners would shift how they allocate their spending across business cards if there was a loyalty program in place. Some of the top things they've shared that they look for in loyalty programs are financial incentives, like offering fair pricing and monetary rewards. Trust. Have you proven to be reliable to them? Consistency is important, such as a program with stable, high-quality offerings and customer service. When all of those pillars are in place, customers will be more likely to make repeat purchases and be loyal to your brand. What are some examples of those incentives in action? Well, I can point to Capital One Business' partnership with Inc.

as a great example of community building in action. Capital One has been the official partner of the Inc. 5000 for six years. In each year of our partnership with Inc., we've built upon our sponsorship by listening directly to the founders of these fast-growing companies to identify new and meaningful opportunities to bring them together. In addition to sponsoring the Inc. 5000 awards and conference, we now partner with Inc. to present intimate, invite-only honoree receptions and meaningful networking events in major markets across the country. We've also developed an exclusive digital community for Inc. 5000 honorees to share their learnings and build relationships with one another. How do these benefits help build community and loyalty?

We provide these community-focused programs because we've heard directly from business owners that these are the benefits that are important to them. When you show your customers that you're in touch with what they need, they're more likely to be loyal to your brand. Thank you for these insights about how benefits and community programming can help build loyalty, Ami. Thanks so much for having me, Sarah. It was great to be here. And now here is Ayesisha Bowe's conversation with Karen Young. Enjoy. Welcome to Your Next Move, Karen. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Karen, you've been on an incredible journey. You took a product that was last popular in the 50s and 60s, the single blade razor, and saw potential in something that hadn't been thought about in

decades. And then you expanded it into a full line of body care products. You've raised over $4 million in funding, and We The People has launched in Sephora, was featured on the Today Show, and even showed up in the New York Times crossword puzzle. So tell us, how did it all begin? And I heard that growing up, your mother wouldn't allow beauty magazines in the household. I'm a Brooklyn-born girl, but I had the privilege of being raised by my grandmother and my uncles in South America. And if you think I'm obsessed with body care, oh my goodness. So the single blade or safety razor, as it's called, was actually introduced to me by watching my uncles use it.

And they had amazing skin, not an ingrown, no razor burn to be seen. And I would watch them partake in this ritual every morning of shaving with the blade, the shaving cream with the original brush, and then just watch them, you know, make these delicate strokes across their face. They looked incredible. And my grandmother literally would slather me every day in coconut oil and then send me out into the sun in Guyana. You know, it was really about these very simple rituals that we had for caring for ourselves. And then I came back to the U.S. and lived in Brooklyn with my mom when I was seven. And the other side sort of happened with regards to how we intake beauty and rituals in our lives. And she

was incredibly protective of what I thought of myself from outside voices. And so as a result, she didn't allow any magazines in the house because she just was not a fan of what a lot of magazines were saying to women. Wow, I love that. So she was using that as a way of protecting your ideas about beauty and your self-esteem as a young girl growing up. Yeah. So can you tell me how your childhood influenced or inspired you to found We The People? So I think about it in two ways that I think were truly the biggest influence to me. The first one was, even though it might have seemed very rigid on the outside, like not having any outside media, magazines, or anything like that to shape the way I saw myself, I

think it allowed me space to kind of grow into myself and and any any mom you know what they're really trying to protect there is you know less your childlike sort of you know sense and more so I think this the the space and ability for you to think on your own and think and form opinions of yourself and how you feel in your body on your own without it being guided by culture. And so I kind of went at the idea of building a brand, particularly for women, from this very perspective of like, how do I make sure that they have space to live within the brand. You know, we are not telling them who they should be, how they should be, how they should think about themselves. So that was the first part. The second was, you know, a lot of people talk about risk-taking for entrepreneurs and truly

having that migratory experience coming from Guyana, South America, which was at that time, you know, an underdeveloped nation, considered one of the poorest, and obviously now quite a bit more flourishing. But coming with that sort of migratory experience and landing in Flatbush, Brooklyn, I always had tethers to culture. Never, never, never left, especially like curry, like the food, like all the things, you know. We were very, very prideful of our culture. But the second portion of that was that I got that experience of what it looked like for my family to take risk. And it was different than what people might normally think when you want to take a risk as an entrepreneur. Generally, you kind of need to have the padding and the cushion, a family and so on, you know, finances, a certain stability to take the risk.

But I saw my family leave everything they knew behind in order to come to this country and make something different. So I think that little bit of crazy and a lot of capacity to take risk, those things all really came together and informed everything that I've done with We The People. Everything about your story resonates with me. My family's from the Bahamas, and I resonate with the strength, but also the closeness to the everyday rituals and the things that are in the environment. I was always amazed to this day by how my aunts and uncles know what every leaf is and how they can use it as part of their routine.

Could you share a little bit more about how some of these rituals show up in your brand today? We actually just launched a body wash last year, and I was so thrilled as I was working with our product developer. Sea moss was one of the ingredients that she brought forth. And I was like, I literally have sea moss in the fridge. What are you talking about? And it's, you know, we drink it and it helps to remineralize the body, you know, add a lot of vitamins and minerals. And it's really known for like energy and all of that. And I sat down and I said, but we can do this outside for the skin? And she's like, yeah.

And other people are trying to own it. And so if there's anyone who should have a stake in that and tell the story around that, then it definitely should be you. So really, really excited to be able to pull ingredients that are so familiar to me and infuse them into the products. I think the second thing is like a lack of complexity. You know, as you mentioned, like growing up, we really relied on the environment to infuse a lot of what we use. We didn't have the ability to be terribly complex. My grandmother's entire makeup section was like one lipstick and like a cold cream, right? And I remember like we would bathe with the calabash, which is, you know, the wooden gourd that literally came off the tree and these artisans

would carve them. And that was like part of our bathing ritual. And so I always go back to simplicity. I try to be as rooted in sustainability with the brand as we can as well, but it's constantly sort of a moving target, but really simplicity, simplicity in our ingredients, complex formulations that work, deliver what they're supposed to, but also don't necessarily have, don't have unnecessary things, don't have a lot of fluff and filler just because it's what everyone's talking about. I've read that We The People's mission is the reconstitution of beauty. Why does beauty need to be reconstituted? And how do you accomplish that? So that really goes back to that time of like when my mother said, listen, there are certain magazines that I just don't think are right to have in the house.

And that's not where I want you to shape your sense of self and your sense of beauty. And so the idea of reconstituting it is literally we the people, and we're thinking of the Constitution, right? A set of guiding principles. So what does it look like if we shift the set of guiding principles for people? And I think brands are so powerful. My son is two and a half, and he's like, can I get the iPad? Right? Like brands are incredibly powerful and beauty brands are tethered to culture. And so the opportunity to think about the reconstitution is really just saying, listen,

what if we step back? And two things. One, we're not going to tell you how you should think about yourself. But here's my promise to you. I'm not going to use the words flawless when I speak to you. I'm not going to use the words anti-aging. It is the biggest category in beauty, many, many billion dollars worth. But there is a better way to talk about aging. And I'm not going to use the words perfecting, because who the heck can live up to that anyway? And so that's why we thought about it as the reconstitution of beauty. So, you know,

I spent four years working in prestige beauty, and that's sort of where the spark for We the People came from, and my passion for beauty, actually. I really didn't think it was a category that I had any interest in. Funny story, I didn't come upon blush until I was in my 30s, and I was just like, why do I need to blush? Like, what exactly is happening? I'm not a doll. And then I tried it, and I was like, oh, I see, enhancing. I remember literally being, working at this company and it was beautiful spring day. And I went to shave my legs and go meet my friends for brunch. And I shaved, got out, went, sat down. We actually had a,

we met for pedicures before that and, you know, rolled my pant leg up so that I could get the pedicure. And there was a giant swath of like angry skin just running up my leg. And my friend looked at me and she goes, oh my gosh, what is going on? Are you okay? I said, oh yeah, I'm fine. I just shaved. And I was just like, that just doesn't feel like that should be the answer to something that people do every single solitary day, to something that I had been doing for like a decade or so at that point. And I just said, it is what it is. It's terrible and it's, you know, a bad experience. And then it just really started pulling together like, well, what if it doesn't have to be a bad experience? I mean, I was sitting there in beauty and, like, everything that you could think of we had access to.

Multiple blushes and foundations and eyeliners, whatever you could think of. And no one was thinking about the safety razor. And when I did some research, what I realized was that in the 50s and 60s, women actually were using the safety razor. But the marketing from the 70s onwards had actually shifted to start pushing more women towards the disposable plastic razor. And it was this very silly, like, language that underneath it was the assumption that we were not smart enough to use a more complicated razor. And so everything just sort of slammed together at that point. And I said, well, what if I can actually teach them how? And what if I could just start talking about it. And really, like,

past and present came together and gave us our start in the category and in the industry and many, many awards to follow. Wow. Karen, what is We The People? Tell me more about the brand and the products you make. It's a really great question. So We The People is a line of body care products. We started really simply with a razor. But the aim had always been to perfect the razor, really show our consumers that we could win at one of the most difficult things to figure out how to remake, repackage, and deliver on an excellent experience, and then expand once we gain that trust into a line of body care. Now, you and I probably had similar experiences where when you were thinking about body care, might have usually been an afterthought, but you would probably go to like a drugstore or something and get like a gallon size

of some sort of lotion, maybe eight bucks, 12 if you were splurging. And I really wanted to challenge the idea of how we thought about body care really similarly to what we were seeing in skincare, where we were challenging ingredients, we were challenging formulations, and we were demanding efficacy. We wanted products that worked, not just the pretty things that you sort of shellac on your face now, right? Like every single thing has to have some sort of effectiveness behind it. And when I was buying these, you know, body care products from the drugstore, it was all I knew. It was all I, I knew. It was all anyone really had access to. But you're really just putting things on top of your skin, right?

And so what I actually started working on, before I even knew a name for it, was something along the lines of functional body care. And functional meaning that it actually works. It delivers actives. It delivers incredible formulations. And it delivers fantastic ingredients, mostly organic, to your skin so that your skin over time begins to function in a better way than it had prior to that.

And some of the things that we are experiencing as dysfunctional skin, which we don't even know about, are dehydrated and dry skin. Not everything can be solved with water. And not everything, although I love my grandmother, not everything was solved by like slathering coconut oil on top. And so what we really thought about was these formulations that got into the skin cells and do the work. They help turn over old, dead, dry skin cells so that your renewed skin is there and ready to receive the next set of actives that you put in it. So that's how we thought about the full line. And ultimately that's how We the People approached this body care. Thank you for expanding the body care options.

Thank you. For a long time there, I think in about high school, the skin regimens of the women that I knew were mostly Vaseline and water. Yeah. Can you tell me more about the name, We the People? Did you start with that name? No. So we actually started as We Shave. Yeah. And that's because we had the razor as the cornerstone of the brand. And, you know, I really thought, okay, well, maybe we'll sort of sit and shave for a while and it feels good. And what I was really trying to say with We Shave was an inclusive experience because when you hear it, you hear

We Shave. You hear We Indeed Also Shave. And so it was like a funny way to kind of build the brand and like have something resonate very quickly with people from an auditory perspective. And then what happened was I've always been very, very close to our community. And, you know, in the early days, it was literally just me. I was, as the Jamaicans would say, very close to our community. And, you know, in the early days, it was literally just me. I was, as the Jamaicans would say, head cook and bottle washer. I was answering every email, you know, doing all of our PR, like doing all the things to get the brand off the ground. And one day someone came in our inbox and sent a really wonderful note and mentioned that they identify as non-binary and really appreciated the fact that the brand didn't sort of posit that you needed to be

very feminine in order to use it. And I remember, you know, seeing that she had written that it just made her feel welcoming. It was nice to have on her sink, and she just felt like it wasn't trying to tell her who she needed to be. And I said, all right, well, I got that right. So that felt really good. And then, you know, I really sort of sat down, and I looked at some of our other messages, and there was another one from a longtime customer who said, I actually bought the product for a friend of mine who is transitioning. And so I was just like, kind of sat down and listened to that, did a little social listening as well. And I said, you know, the world is really shifting. And because we all now own

our mini platforms on social media, you're really starting to get a better sense of how people are naming themselves and creating space for themselves in the world. And so the idea for naming the brand We The People really came from that, as in there's now this opportunity for anyone to come and belong to the fabric of the brand. We don't tell them who they should be, how they should look, how they should feel, but they could come and belong to something. And I do think everybody wants to belong to something. That's really beautiful. Thank you. Can you tell me a little more about some of the lessons that you've learned from your community. Yeah. So, you know, our community ultimately has guided a lot of the product development.

And I've always believed that, you know, even if you're starting small, it's okay. If you're actually going back to the people who you want to ultimately consume the product. And so we've always thought about folding them in along the way. There's a few ways that we do that. So initially, what we'll do is go out and do these intensive surveys with our consumer and get a sense of not just who they are from a demographic perspective. It's always good to know where and why and how and how much you make and all of that. But who are you from a psychographic perspective? What matters? Why do you put your dollars behind certain brands? What do you care about? What's your life like? Are you like me? You're getting up and you got to like get a surly little two and a half year old out the door and then go be CEO of a company. Or, you know, are you the rich auntie?

And so we do like these very personalized survey experiences with our customers. I also try to get in front of them one on one asone as often as we possibly can too. And we use that to inform not only how we talk to them, but we also use it to inform the products that we develop. And so I try to get really deep into the nuances of what they are solving for. Because you can either, as a brand, you can either make a pill or you can make a vitamin. You can make a painkiller or you can make a vitamin. And I've always wanted to make sure that we make a painkiller, which is not easy to do in beauty because the reality is most of us don't need half of the things.

As you mentioned, Vaseline and water, they probably look amazing, right? I still need the Vaseline. Yeah, right? So yeah, you know, in order to make painkillers, we had to really understand like what is behind inflammatory issues that you're experiencing. Like, do you have eczema? Do you, are you sensitive to scent? Do you have like really dehydrated skin? What have you done that hasn't been working? So we get very detailed. And the first step is using that to inform the product roadmap.

And then after that, we go back to that very community and they test the products and they give us their feedback. And then the final stage is when it's about to launch, we make sure that we just love on them, give them free product, you know, get reviews. Like, it has just been fantastic. It's really fascinating what happens. I mean, some of the before and after photos that show up in our inbox, I'm like, I would never do that. I can't believe that they did that. But it's just been a really fascinating journey to see what it's like to value community

and get very close to the end consumer. They love it. They really love it. Can you tell me a story or something you've heard from a member of your community that's really stuck with you? Yeah. So one really, really compelling experience I had, another one that came through email, was a woman who had bought at the time,

this was relatively early in our journey, she had bought the shave gel and razor. And she said, I actually have not shown my legs in 10 years, a whole decade, because I was so ashamed of the experience. I haven't gone to the beach, haven't done anything like that because I just didn't want my skin to be seen by the world. I was really shamed. I was really ashamed of how my skin looked. And I used the product and life changing.

And I just want to let you know that that's the experience that I had. And I really, really, really understood that. I really felt that because I spent many a very, very hot August in New York covered in jeans because I just didn't feel confident in my skin. And ultimately, that is what we deliver, right? It's really that confidence in your skin. And it really doesn't matter who you are at that point, which is why we have such a diverse consumer base. Everybody wants to feel good in their bodies. If you could distill We The People as a brand into a promise that you're making to a consumer, what would that promise be? Oh, that's amazing. That's a really, really great question. I think the most dear to me promise that I could make is that we are here to help you feel incredible in your own skin as you are.

True essence of beauty. I love it. We're going to take a quick break and be back with more from Ayesha and Karen. Here's a little tip for growing your business. Get the VentureX business card from Capital One and earn unlimited double miles on every purchase. Plus, the VentureX business Card has no preset spending limit, so your purchasing power can adapt to meet your business needs. And when you travel, you'll have access to over 1,300 airport lounges. Just imagine where the VentureX Business Card from Capital One can take your business. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Terms and conditions apply. Find out more at CapitalOne.com slash VentureXBusiness.

From the start of your business, engaging the community around you was so important. Why was this important to you? I think if you're building a modern brand and you're not engaging your community, what are you building, truly, right? My experience in beauty, and much of it still is developed this way, it's done in silos. You know, I saw beauty from formulation all the way to advertising and marketing done within these company silos and never actually brought the people in who purchased the products on the end. And yeah, I just wanted to, it was just integral to me and to everything that we were building to actually start with the people and then take that out to market and not build in a silo. Karen, you got to see firsthand how large brands launch products. What do you feel was

missing from your experience that was important for you to bring with We The People? So the biggest opportunity I had really, having come from one of the largest beauty brands, prestige beauty brands in the country, was really seeing how beauty was packaged and sold. And it was dictated by product teams all the way to marketing teams. And as I was thinking about launching a beauty brand, I had a distinct opportunity that they were not taking advantage of because they were so large. I could actually talk to my consumer on the other end. I had access to create a direct relationship with them via social media. And so that was one of my very first channels to really reach our end consumer and start building that community and start building that consumer

without going through all of the cogs in the machine, as one might say, when you're at a super large beauty company. How do you keep the bond between your brand and your community strong? That is, it has a lot to do with intimacy. It's a word that I've actually been using a lot this year, even, and sort of into last year, because as we scale, and especially as we've gone into retail, there's that touch point that gets lost. And so it has been really incredible for us to make sure we fold the consumer in and our community in, in an intimate way.

We do that through email. We do that through inviting them to events. And we also have a VIP program that is part of the way that we market the company. And so that is essentially the consumers who just love the brand and really, really engage with us in different ways that we measure that, whether social or email and that sort of thing, connecting with us directly. We build that VIP community. And that is one that, as I mentioned, it is about having that intimacy that sort of lives within the brand. And they're the ones who help us with our products. They're the ones who give us feedback. They're the ones who send reviews, before and after photos.

So yeah, it's been really integral to how we think about community. I'm wondering if you can share a specific time when the community contributed to decisions that you've made for your brand, your products, or maybe even shape the goals that you have for the company? Probably the biggest contribution would have to be the name change, right? And so we had a name that described what we did prior to this. We had a name that described what we did. It was fine. The job worked for SEO. But we didn't have a name that really reflected the values of the brands. And that was the people who are a direct part of everything that we do. So I would say the name change, which actually came about from learning that a number of our

customers either identified as non-binary or were purchasing for people in their lives who were transitioning. And honestly, even one is enough for me to make sure that we think about what we are putting out into the world and the way that we are developing something when we say that we are for the people and for the community. So the name change was probably the absolute biggest one. And then from there, you know, truly actually getting to know the consumer down to their needs, truly, what are you looking to solve? What makes you feel less than great in your skin? What have you never found that you wish someone would make? And we took all of that back and dissected it

into products that are truly innovative in the market. And the reason they can be innovative is because we were not just turning the dial on something that was already out there. We were shifting the way people thought about products for the body. And that is a direct result of engaging very deeply with our consumers and our community. I love we shave to we the people. Yes. Brilliant. Thank you. What are some of the biggest lessons that you've learned from leaning on your community? There is no way, not just our brand, I just really don't think there's

any way to build a modern brand without community. I think a lot of people, when they think about brand building, and I would say this is, if someone asked me this, I would say this is one of my greatest lessons in general, right? I think a lot of people, when they think about brand building, they think about a product. And then they're like, okay, so I'm going to build a product and I'm going to build the brand around the product. Or they think about the brand and then I'm going to fold the product into it and then I'm going to take that out into the world. But to this day, one of the largest drivers to our website for, you know, sales revenue is actually organic. Organic and direct. And that means that we have built something that people are looking for,

either by name or by product. And I think the only way you can do that is by serving the people first and foremost, because it is a direct reflection of a magnitude of people looking for solutions. And that's truly the only way we exist. Again, painkillers, not vitamins. How have members of your community become brand ambassadors for your company? So when I was raising capital,

right around the time that I was talking to our lead investors and, you know, sort of trying to close the deal, they had gone to a bar. They were in Chicago, I believe. They came back, continuing conversation, and they said, someone came up to us, a woman came up to us, we're chatting. She asked what we did. We're investors. One of the brands we're looking to invest in is We The People. And she says, I know that brand. I love that brand.

That is literally, you cannot pay for that. You know, on the marketing side, we call it referrals. So we have a lot of people who buy for others, who tell others about the brand, but you can only get that when you have hit something right. And there's two things that we have to consistently knock out of the park. The first one is we can't make products that don't work. They have to be incredible. And the second is, I think we have to create that emotive experience with people when they engage with the brand in some way or another. And ultimately, telling other people about us is the ultimate compliment. So did they wind up investing?

They definitely did. They actually led our seed round, as a matter of fact. What are the biggest pieces of advice that you would give to entrepreneurs? So I think the biggest advice that I would give to entrepreneurs really stemming from some of the hard lessons, the hard one lessons that I've had in the last few years. I think the first one is go for simplicity, truly. It's so easy to, especially if you're launching a product, it's really easy to get very excited and bring a lot to market at one time. But I think it's really important to be very simplistic in your approach and to pace yourself. It takes, I believe, on average of seven times for a consumer to see you and see your product

before they make a purchase. So imagine trying to get 10 products in front of millions of people seven times over. That gets dilutive, it gets expensive, and it really just sends everyone on your team in multiple directions. Just start with one. What are some of the biggest pieces of advice you would give to an entrepreneur about building community? Don't be afraid to be the one that goes out and builds that community. I think these days, because of social media, you know,

and all the channels that need to be managed, right? Everyone thinks, oh no, I've got to get someone to do it for me. Pick a link, pick a channel, find where they are and where they're actually really interested in communicating with you. To this day, we only really spend a lot of time on two channels. Instagram was the first one because we were built there. And then TikTok is now we're sort of getting our feet under us a little bit. You know, I think everyone always really thinks about putting these layers

in front of themselves and the audience on those social media channels. You should be the one, at the very least in the beginning, but you should be the one to be out there connecting. I had no idea, and beauty is special. Beauty is really, really something else. But I really had no idea how much people wanted to know that I was the person making the product for them, that I was developing and working with the best of the best, that I am involved in picking ingredients and working

directly with our formulators and getting samples back and forth, sitting down thinking about the brand, how we talk to them, all of these pieces. I didn't know how much it mattered, but it really is part of that trust. So my advice is to get out there. Now, I would be remiss if we didn't talk about funding. Black Women raised less than 1%, less than 1% of all venture capital funding. You've raised over $4 million. Did you get any feedback from investors that your loyal and devoted community contributed to your success? Less feedback, although I have incredible investorss. I built the brand for women who wanted and deserve to take up space to the extent that I literally, when we were designing the logo, I said, make it bigger. I want it to be the manspreading of logos. Take up space because I want when people see the brands on their sinks and their shelves

it's not diminutive and you shouldn't feel that way when you reach for it you should feel bold and when it came to fundraising I found that I was making myself small so it was a learning and it's something that I'm actually still working on. Can you talk about specific ways that your community may have benefited your bottom line? We have an industry exceeding, I believe benchmarks are maybe 25 to 30% repeat customer purchase rate in beauty. Ours is 34%. That's impressive. Yeah. And we did something really crazy in 2022 and much needed. We turned off all ad spend. We turned off all paid acquisition ads.

And I said, listen, if we're going to live, we have to see if we can do it by the people who already love us. And not only did we live, but we got into Sephora. Wow. That's even more impressive and incredible. Thank you. You've been in the entrepreneurial game for quite some time now. At this point in your career, what do you love the most about being an entrepreneur? I still love the nerdy part of it. I still love, you know, building the brand part of it.

I have an undergraduate degree in psychology. I consider myself a perpetual observer. I still love the observation part. I still love the observation part. I still love getting in touch with our community and getting to know them, nurturing them. And I love building the products. This journey of ours as founders can often be a really wild ride. What have been your biggest wins?

Let's see. Sephora is really high up there. Really, really high up there. Yeah. The premier prestige retailer in the country. I still get goosebumps when I walk into Sephora now and I see our products on the next big thing wall, top shelf, like mind-blowing. I can't gloss over the fact that raising capital, though it was difficult, what you're on there is a journey of convincing people that not only what you're building now is valuable, but in the future, it has the potential to be outsized in terms of returns and value too. That was no easy feat. And so I'm really proud to have this little Caribbean

flatbush raised girl figure out how to pull all those things off. Even a wildly successful entrepreneur has some misses. I know when we launched the first version of the Lingo kits, we had all these math symbols on the outside of the box. And I heard that that was a turnoff for some consumers. And so here I was immediately having to redesign the box after I launched the product. Are there any missteps that you can share from your journey? Yeah, I wouldn't even know where to stop. I mean, it's like one misstep after another. But yeah, let's see.

We made a product at one point, since we're speaking on the product level, we made a product at one point that was a sheet mask for the bikini area. And on the outside, it could have looked genius and it got a lot of coverage and it was really, but it missed an integral part for me. And I knew it when we were doing it, but sheet masks were like really hot at the time. And I thought this might be kind of fun and different, but it missed an integral part of how I think about our journey of a product from concept to shelves and homes.

And that was, how are people really going to comfortably use this, truly? And I kept thinking to myself, there's some weird stuff in beauty. Maybe we can get around it a little bit. But I just said, Karen, at what point do you ever sprawl out on your couch in your underwear with like sheet masks on your bikini line? Like truly, comfortably so. And, you know, we ended up pulling it from market. We sold through it. Some people loved it, but I just really think, I didn't put it through the ringer as I do everything else. So that was one small miss amongst many. And what about your greatest challenges? What are ways that you may overcome

them? I really do. This was something, you know, my grandmother taught me. I really do try to think about every challenge as an opportunity to persevere and overcome. You know, as you know, some of the biggest challenges that we face as founders are down years, things that don't necessarily go the way you think they would, you know. One big challenge that we had was, and it came on the back of something wonderful. So in 2020, as more attention was paid to Black-owned businesses, we actually became the most search for Black-owned beauty brand in the country. You can only imagine what that did to our website and our inventory. I think we sold out in a matter of weeks, about six months worth of inventory. And the scramble was real.

The pissed off people on the other end, very real. And I had to come down from the sort of mental and emotional high of blowing through our numbers and remind ourselves to come back down to this space where we had to get really, really honest. And I did things like literally like share with them our inventory numbers, how long things were going to take, what was going on, why it was happening. And not everyone stuck with us. So that's always hard. But I kind of had to remember our foundation.

We might love it, but being a founder is hard. Often the days are long and there's very little, if any, separation between your personal life and your work life. On top of all of this, you managed to become a mother shortly after founding your company. How did you handle all of it? Well, I think the first thing we should say is that choosing to be a founder is crazy. That it is. We're a little off kilter perhaps I don't even engage in the idea of like the work life balance right it's just it's just too tall of an order so I just really try to think day to day

how do I balance what I need against what my child needs you know against what my family needs against what my company needs and I really my company needs. And I really just take it day by day. We have incredible help. And I cannot live without that. Literally makes it possible for me to go out, not think about anything else, do what I need to do, come home. And I also have a fantastic partner as well. But yeah, I mean, can I say that we're superheroes? Yes. Okay. So we're superheroes. Yeah. What's been the most surprising thing for you on your entrepreneurial journey? I have a grit that I always knew I had, but it shows up in a different way as an entrepreneur, because you have to manage to think high level and like low level at the same time, right? You have to think 10,000 feet and

500 feet all at the same time, sometimes two feet. And I think finding that malleability within my own personality has been really surprising and welcomed. Honestly, it gets me through the day to day. What is your next move when it comes to building your community? So our next move is really understanding more of the community that we have built and understanding the ways

that they want to be engaged with as a brand. When you think about the brand, you're literally coming to our house, right? Now, do you want to just hang out at the front door or do you want to come in? Do you want to sit on the couch? Do you want to watch Netflix with us? Like, how are we really thinking about engaging with our community and sort of discerning how far and how deep people want to be into the community of the brand, how much they care. And so we are just really dissecting our consumers as they are approaching us, especially now that we've scaled into Sephora,

as they're approaching us from these different angles and sort of becoming aware of the brand from the different angles and finding out how deeply they want to be a part of the community. And when we learn that they do want to be an integral part of the community and really help shape what's next for the brand, we bring them into that coveted VIP program. And from there, just really get to know something

and get to know us and build something really generous and thoughtful and intimate alongside them. Karen, this has been such a great conversation. There's nothing in the world like dishing with a fellow founder. So I appreciate it. I've loved learning about you and we the people, your plans for growth and scale. And I can't wait for your next move. That's all for this episode of Your Next Move.