Your Next Move - Using Public Relations and Marketing to Catapult Growth

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

On today’s episode host Aisha Bowe talks with the iconic Bobbi Brown. 25 years after she sold her namesake cosmetics company to Estee Lauder, Bobbi is back with Jones Road Beauty, a cosmetics company focused on clean, high-grade formulations for all skin types and tones. Entrepreneurs realize that at all stages of growing a company, it’s tough to make sure your hard work gets the media attention it deserves. This episode offers hard-earned wisdom about shaping a media and marketing plan for your business from launch through sale in an ever-changing media landscape.

With the VentureX Business Card from Capital One, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase. And with no preset spending limit, your purchasing power adapts to meet your business needs. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Find out more at capitalone.com slash VentureXBusiness. Terms and conditions apply. I'm Sarah Lynch, and you are listening to Your Next Move,

audio edition, produced by Inc. and Capital One Business. On today's episode, host Ayesha Bowe talks with the iconic Bobbi Brown. 25 years after she sold her namesake cosmetics company to Estee Lauder, Bobbi is back with Jones Road Beauty, a cosmetics company focused on clean, high-grade formulations for all skin types and tones. In their conversation, they explore Bobbi's return to entrepreneurship and the way she's used social media to connect

with customers and get key feedback. But before we get to that interview, I talked with Karen Bonner, VP of Brand and Acquisitions Marketing at Capital One Business to get even more insight on crafting a marketing strategy that carries your business from launch to sale. To be effective, marketing and promotion needs to be grounded in solid strategic thinking. How can SMBs with limited time, resources, and budgets make good decisions about where to focus their dollars? You need to start by meeting your audience where they are in terms of media choices and messaging. I think we all have limited time, personnel, and money,

so it's best to focus on places with scale, where you can reach the most members of your target audience as possible. Besides social media, what are some other platforms that are working for SMBs? Business owners should be thinking about paid, owned, and earned media. That includes social channels and many others. So paid means you are paying for advertising. It could be social media, or it could even be a more traditional channel like radio or direct mail. All of those should be on the table. Then when it comes to earned, it's about earning media coverage

through some of your public relations efforts. That's not only basically free marketing, it can be really powerful to have someone else speaking about your brand instead of you talking about yourself. And finally, with owned channels, don't forget your email database, your website, and your organic social channels are channels you own and are equally important for reaching your audience. You should take advantage of all of these types of media, not just one. Set a budget, think about

the goals for the channel, and then test to figure out what works best. You basically keep reinvesting in what's working and you drop what isn't. In the Pages of Ink, we cover small business marketing extensively, featuring, for instance, a company that's launched an incredibly popular Substack newsletter and another that posted video clips with a celebrity that went viral. And those are just some of the tactics we've seen founders use. Sometimes you don't know what will truly resonate with customers and prospects until you start creating some content, putting it out there, and seeing what they respond to. That's actually the secret of some of the biggest marketing campaigns in the world,

trial and testing. Here's an example. We probably all remember the ice bucket challenge from several years back. Well, it started out as a relatively small idea from a nonprofit looking to raise some awareness and some money, and it became the biggest trend of the year and probably for several years after that. What else should SMBs be thinking about when it comes to choosing the tools and tactics they'll use? Be really specific in your goals and then measure how your efforts are performing. What's generating the results you want, likes, inquiries or sales, and how can you duplicate those results? Measurement and tracking are essential to understand how you're moving the needle and whether things are going in the direction you want and need them to go. And now, here is Ayesha Bowe's conversation with Bobbi Brown.

Enjoy. Thank you for joining me today, Bobbi. I'm so excited to talk about your career, your journey with Jones Road, and what you've learned about PR and marketing strategies along the way. Can you take us back to the early days when you were selling homegrown lipsticks to a small network of clients? What did it take to get the press attention from Glamour and your first order with Bergdorf? Well, first of all, I had no clue. I had no experience. I had no role models. I didn't really have a clue.

Everything was just kind of happened. So I was a makeup artist and I made these lipsticks with a chemist and I thought they were awesome. And I made some more colors and I just started selling them to friends, to models, to editors, to neighbors, to nannies. And by the way, I was a young mom. I had a young baby at the time. And honestly, I learned a lot about colors from meeting my kids, friends, nannies from other countries. And so that was like a good starting point. And one day I told my friend about this thing I'm doing, and she happened to be the beauty editor of Glamour. She said, can I write about it? I didn't know what PR was.

I didn't know. And she wrote about it. I'm like, why would you want to do that? But it kind of started things. How much did regular appearances on the Today Show contribute to your growth? And what would you consider to be equivalent to that today? Well, when I first got on the Today Show, it was amazing. And I knew, I don't know how I knew it,

but I knew not to use that platform as a selling tool, more as a teaching tool. I wanted to be known as someone that taught people things. But turns out that every time I was on the show, think about all the millions of people that saw this and heard about the company at the time. I don't even know how many people watch the Today Show, but a lot. I don't know if it's 5 million. I really don't even know. But think about what's happening today and TikTok and Instagram and all the social media. So you can't really compare. It's kind of better now.

What is it that you think that you understand about marketing and promoting a product that other people do not? I read that legendary CEO, Mickey Drexler, who's responsible for turning around brands like J.Crew and Gap, has said that you are phenomenal when it comes to product. What is your superpower?

Well, my superpower is I was not trained in marketing. I never went to business school, but I do understand that you have to make the best product and you have to tell people about it, which I guess is PR, and you have to know how you explain it, which I guess is marketing. And you just have to be real and authentic and believe your own Kool-Aid

that you really make the best stuff. Take me to 1995. Estee Lauder buys your company for $75 million. How did you promote and market your brand in order to get it to sell like that? I think Estee Lauder came calling because we became the number one line at Bergdorf and Neiman Marcus, which was, I guess, a spot that they held for many years. And this small company that didn't even have like a full range of products kind of took their lunch. And so they reached out and we weren't for sale, but it was the best decision definitely at the time. What should founders understand about how public relations and marketing changes over the life cycle of a business? Well, I think especially in today's day and age, things change so quickly. You know, all of a sudden there was TikTok that was blowing up people's businesses.

And then there wasn't. So you have to be open and you have to always pay attention. And you have to not be afraid to try new things. And if something doesn't work, don't view it as a failure. View it as, oh, let me try something else. Let me try it differently. How has your approach to marketing and branding changed over the years? Oh my gosh, it's changed so much.

What's interesting to me is I know everything I learned on the job at the first company. And now with the new company, I have a brilliant CMO, a brilliant brand marketing person. They both happen to be my relatives, but they know things I don't know. And I know enough to let them do it or tell me to do it. What are some of the biggest challenges of creating something that does not share your name? You know, you would think there'd be big challenges, but it turns out it's not because everything is transparent in this day and age. You know, there's social media, there's people sharing it. And I'm sorry, I sold the name Bobby Brown to Estee Lauder, and that's okay.

I just happen to still be Bobby Brown. That's who I am. So I did not change my name because that's who I am. That's what my parents named me. Bobby Brown is on my birth certificate. Where did you come up with the idea to promote yourself as just Bobby as opposed to Bobby Brown? When I left the brand, it was, you know, I didn't own the name Bobby Brown anymore. And, you know, it was a little bit of an emotional moment trying to kind of figure it out. And I just

started doing things. And I'm like, I'm not Bobby Brown anymore. And then I'm like, I'm just Bobby. But I am still Bobby Brown. That's the confusing thing to people. They don't understand that I am not part of the brand anymore. It's October of 2020, and you've just been released from a 25-year non-compete with Estee Lauder. You have a new company, you're on a new journey with Jones Road, and you decided to release the news on Instagram. Can you share with us why you chose to share it that way? Well, it was the day my 25-year non-compete was up. I was determined to launch this new beauty brand on that day. I was advised not to, but I was determined. So we launched it. Basically, we turned on the lights on Instagram because it was sudden. It was a way to reach a lot of people.

And it was also the same day that we had three other outlets doing the story. The Today Show did a five or seven minute piece, which it was during the pandemic. They shot here when we were all wearing masks. We also had a Wall Street Journal business article and then Elvis Duran, the radio, and that launched Jones Road. And you absolutely nailed it. It's been a terrific success. Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit about fears behind user-generated content on social media? Were you worried that you might post something that in some way would damage your brand or maybe have unforeseen repercussions?

You know, I think any founder, any entrepreneur, you know, hopefully thinks about what they're doing. And, you know, you want to make sure you do the right thing. I mean, I used to wear a necklace with a swear word on it and people got really upset. I stopped wearing it. I also now have a granddaughter and she's not ready to read, but I'm like, all right, I won't wear that necklace. So most of the things I do read about myself or things that we're doing are positive.

So that makes me feel good. But you do have to think about the audience for sure. I'm not someone that posts things to get attention. I post things because I get excited, I want to share things, or I want to teach. One of the things that I really loved about something that you've done is you hired your own models to represent your brand, including a mother five. You spot it at Hampton's Farmer's Market. Love it. Why was it so important for you to be hands-on in the selecting of your models? Well, I mean, first of all, I'm the chief creative officer. That's my role. That's what I do. I'm a visually focused person. I know what I like, and I know how to get the team around me to do what I

don't know how to do. So I book the models. I'd love if someone could bring me models that I love as much as the people I find. And I will be getting your phone number because I'm going to ask you if you'd like to be in a campaign. So I just I love people that are able to create some kind of positive energy and spark. And we use different models for different things. Do you remember when you told me that we were doing this interview and I was like, the Bobbi Brown? I was like, it's you because there's so many women like me out there who have watched you and I have yellow undertones in my skin. And you introduced the idea of yellow in concealer. I know, it's crazy how many women of color stop me

and say to me, you don't understand, you don't understand. Yeah, I mean, they changed the game. But by the way, I could use a much bigger market of women of color. It's something that was really important to me because I do understand skin. I used to be on Oprah all the time and Oprah once turned to me and she said, I think she called me a white Jewish girl on the air. This was like earlier. She goes, how does a white Jewish girl know our skin? And I'm like, because I'm a nutty makeup artist that likes, believes that your foundation should be the same color as your skin. And not everyone's faces are the same color as their skin. So we have

to use things so it's uniform. And that move was so iconic and it cemented you in my mind. But it's common sense. It is. It's not marketing. Common sense is not a common thing, as we've often heard. And for many years, I never wore makeup. And so I remember, wait a second, Bobby just changed the game. I can now go to the store and buy makeup.

Because for many women like me, there were brands, they were out there, but let's say the finish was a little heavy. You couldn't necessarily wear that. And if you did, you seemed a little overdone for high school. And then here you come and you change the game. Yeah. You know, it's always been really important for me to know no matter who you are, you can come to a counter and you can get what you need. I don't care how old you are, how pale you are, if you have freckles, if you have blemishes. So I like to solve problems. And it's not just people of color, skin color. It's my skin color. I could never find a foundation that matched my skin because I had yellow tones.

So everything would look pink, so I didn't wear it. And what's amazing about my new young little company, almost four years, it's not that young anymore, we make sure we have color for everyone's skin. And by the way, we don't sell enough of the darkest shades to really be able to have them in stock. So my brilliant team has figured out a way to order enough so we have them if someone needs them and a way to order enough so we have them if someone needs them

and a way to order more if we need them. Instead of saying, no, we just can't do those colors because we'll have too many things to get rid of. See, but that point that you made there is so important because there are lines who will say, you know what, we're not going to sell that because we're not able to move that product in the market instead of saying, why don't we engage that market

so we can keep that color? Do you know how many times I said that and nobody ever listened to me? Do you know how many times I said that? Now people kind of listen to me. It's much better. It's more fun. Can you share a little bit about marketing?

Your son, Cody, works with you. And as someone who is known to be very hands-on, he's taken a very active role in the shaping of your brand. Can you talk a little bit about the decision to bring Cody on and the role he plays today? Well, do I work for him or does he work for me? That's something we discuss on our morning walks. But honestly, Cody was helping when we needed help at the brand, and it just became this like instant, like, oh my God, he knows exactly what to do. I mean, we quadrupled our business when he started working with us. So he didn't want to work for his mother. He did not want to work in cosmetics,

but he slowly kind of took a more active role. And then as things went on, he started to take more and more things. And him and one other employee are running the company. Like there's no CEO. There's no chairman. It's Cody and a woman, Chrissy, who I hired to be product development, who now runs operations. Cody runs everything else. The three of us have leadership meetings. I can't believe it's even called that. Every Monday, the three of us sit and talk. You know, once we're done talking about their young kids and my granddaughter,

then we talk about business. Could you tell us what's Cody's secret sauce? What he knew and what he believes in is a digital marketing. He understands all of that. I might know brand marketing, but he knows all the other marketing that really leads up to sales. So, and he just knows different ways of doing it. He's the one that put me personally on TikTok. I mean, why? I would never have considered being on TikTok. I mean, why? I would never have considered being on TikTok. And it

really did, at the time, blow up our business. I've seen you on TikTok, and you are a natural. And it was amazing. Can you share a little bit about the TikTok appearance and the growth that you saw from it? Sure. Our TikTok history, you know, was that our friend Gary Vaynerchuk said, you got to go on TikTok. You got to hire a team. You got to, you know, get a consultant agency. You just got to do it. We hung up the phone. Cody looked at me. I looked at him. We shrug our shoulders. He said, all right, mom, go. And I said, hi, this is Bobby. I'm new to TikTok. I don't even know if any of you guys are going to know me or if you have any questions for me. And we got bombarded with people saying, oh, my God, I can't believe you're here. Because I thought TikTok was for dancing, you know, smashing into walls or doing something dumb. But there was a lot of people on TikTok that wanted to know makeup tips. So I answered and there was an enormous amount of women in their 50s and above that said, help, I need help. And so my first TikTok that I did about makeup was about over 50, and it went viral. And it kept doing well, doing well. And then we have something that is now known as Foundation Gate. So I don't

know if you heard about that one. That's the most interesting thing that ever happened. We launched a foundation called What the Foundation. Very unusual texture, really moisturizing. And an influencer decided to review it. She had, I don't know, just 7 million or something ridiculous like that. And she took both two handfuls, had so much on her face. And she goes, this is the worst stuff I've ever used. I hate it. And all of her people were like, yeah, it's bad. I'll never use it and blah, blah, blah. And we saw it. And my heart sunk because I'm like, this is terrible.

It never happened to me before. And I said, the customers, people out there need to know how to use it. So I came back in and we reshot how-tos. Guys, you only need this much. And you're only going to like this if you like a natural look, if you want full coverage. So we did all of this. And at the end of it, I just said, I have one more. So the iPhone was on and I took two handfuls and I said, as a makeup artist, I've always wanted to try new things and I want to try this. And I went and put it on my face and I just started laughing. And I went like this, Cody put it up, it went viral and I learned a new term. All the followers said, oh, you clapped back. I didn't know what a

clap back was, but apparently I clapped back. So it quadrupled our sales. It was amazing. And ironically, that was like three years ago. Ironically, I just met this influencer in a restaurant in London. And we said hello and exchanged, you know, numbers. And it was as lovely as could be. The TikTok was priceless. I want to share a personal story. During the pandemic, my mom and I spent quality time together every Friday. I would make tacos, and she would learn to apply makeup. Because for the majority of our life, we did not have access to foundations that matched the skin color. And she didn't wear it. I mean, she's gorgeous.

She doesn't need it. Oh, I might need her in the campaign, too. But on Fridays, we would have these makeup lessons. And so when you emerged on TikTok, I was like, oh my gosh, there she is. We can learn. And the emphasis that you've always had on the natural beauty look was perfect. As a woman who was learning makeup close to 60, she could easily pick up the tips and emulate them. Oh, it's so great. I love to hear that. You're amazing, Bobbi.

Aw. We're going to take a quick break and be back with more. Here's a little tip for growing your business. Get the VentureX Business Card from Capital One and earn unlimited double miles on every purchase. Plus, the VentureX business card has no preset spending limit, so your purchasing power can adapt to meet your business needs. And when you travel, you'll have access to over 1,300 airport lounges. Just imagine where the VentureX business card from Capital One can take your business. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Terms and conditions apply.

Find out more at CapitalOne.com slash VentureXBusiness. Can you share a little bit more about how TikTok impacted the sales for Jones Road? We're seeing that you guys clocked nearly $20 million in revenue your first year. It seems as though it's had a tremendous impact. Can you share some more? Well, actually, we did not do TikTok the first year. So we did it the second year, January. That's when we actually did it. So the first year was just social growth and digital ads. And then TikTok came in in January, and it really blew up the business. It quadrupled sales. Bobbi, you tripled your revenue after year one. To what extent do you credit TikTok with your growth? I think that was definitely part of it. But, you know, there was new product launches. There was brilliant digital marketing, some really cool brand marketing. To me, it all works together.

It's a whole story. It's not just one thing. What are the biggest takeaways we can learn from you about marketing brands and social media? I mean, it sounds so simple, but authenticity. Just be yourself. Figure out what you want people to know. Tell them, show them. Take people's questions.

That's how you know. So the great thing about social media, it doesn't cost anything, or it shouldn't. And you should be able to get real information right away. With the talk of a ban on TikTok, what are you embracing next? Well, I think that anything that we do works for a while, and then doesn't work as well. You know, I think either people get tired of seeing it. And I think as a brand founder and as someone that really believes in growth, you have to make some changes. So we've

been working on our YouTube channel and putting up some real authentic teaching content. And that's pretty much where we're headed. Oh, I love that. I love a good YouTube tutorial. Yeah, we're shooting them a lot. And the great news for me, I do some of them. While we're on set, the team shoots the makeup I'm doing. So then all they have to do is edit it. And I have my head makeup artist

who is young and blonde and beautiful shooting content. And she does a great job. Oh, I'm excited for that. I finally learned how to fold a fitted sheet. YouTube taught me. Really? Oh, well, you'll have to teach me.

I don't know how to do that at all. It's so challenging. Yeah. That's hard. So you have successfully ran two incredible beauty brands. What is fundamentally the same and what's different about the first company and the second business? I love when people ask me this question because I personally didn't run either of them. I am so good at what I'm good at

and I am so not good at what I'm not good at. So I always make sure there's people to do the things I'm not good at. So I never, I'm not going to say I ran it. I, I, I, I let it, you know. But the biggest difference is when you're at an older brand and part of a big corporation, you learn a lot. It's going to business school. But when you walk away, you realize the things that don't matter. So besides I learned the basics, I also learned what not to do, how not to act, how not to bring bloated teams of people, how to get things done quickly. Because there's a lot of layers when you're part of a corporation. And by the way, I wouldn't ever say I wish I didn't have that experience. It was the most incredible experience. But I know that a lot of those things aren't necessary.

Have you always had this clarity around what you're good at and things that maybe you prefer to delegate? I think I've always known what I'm not good at. And I learned early on there's things like, I don't know how to type. I've written nine books. So for me, it's like, how did I do that? Well, I figure things out.

And now I have a sub stack where I don't have a writer doing it, I'm doing it. There's a little microphone when you press the button and when I go to my notes and I write it all, I speak it, it types it for me and then I reread it and then I print it out and I fix it or I ask my assistant to check my grammar, and that's how it goes up. So being an entrepreneur that doesn't have all the skills, I've kind of figured things out to make my life easier. You're inspiring me to write a book, Bobbi. Do you know how to type, though? I do. I do, but I don't like to. Ah, well then speak into the microphone. It's interesting when you read it.

And you could say things like period, comma, and like it listens. It's kind of crazy. I'm definitely going to try it out. It's just so much faster to communicate verbally. And so I can type. The trick is that I can't usually keep up with the speed of my thoughts.

Oh, then this will work for you for sure. Is there anything that you miss about the early days of promoting your makeup versus today? Well, I miss a lot of things. I mean, there's, you know, early days of promoting my makeup also brings me back to being a 30-something-year-old young mom trying to figure out life, living in the suburbs and commuting and working. And it was a stressful time. It's easy now to say, oh, it was so great. I mean, it was really stressful. So I miss that. But I really don't miss the old things. I think the new things are just so much easier. So tell us a little bit about the new things. What do you find liberating about marketing and promoting brands today?

It's amazing what goes into launching a new product now compared to what used to happen. You used to need to know everything you were doing nine months ahead of time, you know, a year and a half ahead of time because you had to tell the retailers, you had to tell the people that worked for you. Now, we literally could change our minds the day before. And, you know, we tease it a little bit. Sometimes we do more than teasing it, get people excited or ask them, you know, to be engaged with what we're doing. And then we just turn the lights on. Like, it's easy. And by the way, we don't have launch parties. We don't take over restaurants. We don't tie little bows on bags. Like, we just do things a little more homegrown, which is the way I like it.

Can you tell me a little bit about the process with your product, Miracle Bomb? Oh, my God, that was such a miracle. It was during the pandemic, and I was working on a few different formulas. I had hired a couple different freelance product development people to try this one thing. And none of the products were there and none of the people were there. I finally found a product development girl to help me with this mission. I was looking for something. It wasn't Miracle Balm, by the way.

And we told the lab what we wanted. And it took a while. It wasn't Miracle Balm, by the way. And we told the lab what we wanted, and it took a while. It finally came, and I looked at it, and I was like, this is not what I asked for. And she said, yeah, it doesn't look like it. But as a curious makeup artist, I dug my hand in. Now it's known breaking the seal. And I went like this. I put it on my face. I looked in the mirror, and I was like, my God, I look so much better, but I look like I have no makeup on, which is what I wanted. I said, this is a miracle. Someone thinks I said this is a frigging miracle. I don't say frigging. I say a different word. I'm not going to say it now, but it was a miracle and it's still a miracle. I don't go a day without it on my skin.

Bobbi, can you share an example of a PR or marketing mistake and how you may have been able to move on from that? Well, I think it was during the pandemic. And I had a wellness brand that I thought was going to be super successful. And it turned out it wasn't for many different reasons. And there was a product that we were going to launch called Full. And it was basically a fiber gummy that makes you feel full. And I was really excited about it. I put something on social about it. And I got such backlash that I was, you know, telling people that they should need and, you know, being not

body positivity. And it was so bad. And the product was so good. My kids said to me, Mom, not worth it. Not worth your reputation, not worth. And so I never launched the product. What's your next move when it comes to promoting Jones Road? I don't know. I know what I'm doing this week. I know what I'm doing next week. I don't have a whole lot in July and August. And I have a few things I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it remains like that as I stare at my team. So, you know, you never stop. I don't care who you are, what business you're in. If you have a company, you just, you're always doing it. You can't rest on your laurels. You can't rest on what happened and you can't depend on other people to

do it for you. I'm so sorry, but that is the truth. I can't be without my team, but they can't be without me either. You are an icon. And when you do something, we notice. And so I'm sitting here and I'm listening to you say, hey, we just turned the lights on, we just went on social media, and I just wanted to say hi to the world. And the world went, Bobby's back. And it was an incredible moment. And so I'm really excited to try all of the products.

I know that you will have my skin color. I know I will look good in the makeup. I know that I will not have to overdo the makeup, and it's going to be amazing. And I know that everyone is really excited for Your Next Move. That's all for this episode of Your Next Move. Our producer is Matt Toder. Editing and sound design by Nick Torres. Executive producer is Josh Christensen. If you haven't already, subscribe to Your Next Move on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

Your Next Move is a production of Inc. and Capital One Business.