Your Transformation Station - 111. Connecting Clarity in Behavior Modification

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

Dr. David Tate is the CEO of Conscious Growth Partners, a leadership coaching and executive development agency, and a professor at Yale University School of Management. EPISODE LINKS: David's Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-c-tate-780683/ Conscious Growth Partners: https://consciousgrowthpartners.com/about/ OUTLINE: The episode's timestamps are shown here. You should be able to jump to that time by clicking the timestamp on certain podcast players. (00:00) - We didn't think of that... (00:34) - Leading with Clarity” in Behavior Modification "Dr. David Tate" w/ Favazza (12:46) - What do most leaders don't know... (21:31) - Noticing what can be trigging (39:37) - Vulnerability and Self Disclosure (56:01) - Psychological Stress  PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com⁠⁠⁠ Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/apple⁠⁠⁠ Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/spotify⁠⁠⁠ RSS: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/rss⁠⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/youtube⁠⁠⁠ SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/facebook⁠⁠⁠ - Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/instagram⁠⁠⁠ - TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/tiktok⁠⁠⁠ - Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/x⁠⁠⁠ - Pinterest: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/pinterest⁠⁠⁠ - Linkedin: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/linkedin⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I actually seen a decline in the things that I told myself that I would set out to do. I literally watched myself degraded by, oh, I'll do it. I'll do it later. And then I don't do it. Next, I'm not even doing the things that I say I'm going to do. Yeah, right. I love that point, Greg, because so not only does not following through have an impact on things like our relationships and trust and our reputation and how reliable we are,

In terms of other people's eyes, it even impacts how we feel and think about ourselves. You're listening to a podcast that encourages you to embrace your vulnerabilities and authentic self. This is your transformation station, and this is your host, Greg Favaza. David Tate, welcome to your transformation station. How you doing? I'm well, Greg. How are you? I'm doing well myself. I've been going through your work. You have the, perfect background. I couldn't imagine a better guess to have your right here today. And wow, you're a licensed psychologist, an assistant professor of clinical professor in psychiatry at Yale University. Your practices include organizational consulting, yes, including coaching and

leadership development, conflict resolution, team building, succession planning, promoting a healthy organizational development. Fuck, yes. I do a bunch of stuff, for sure. Definitely. Tell me, how did this all start with going down this path in organizational leadership? Yeah, good question.

So it goes way back. The way I remember it, I was a kid in like junior high who would be like, you know, having conversations with other kids in homeroom or on the bus. and like I'd find myself just like listening to their breakup with their boyfriend or girlfriend or like, you know, the fight they got into with their parents or whatever it might be. And I'd be kind of just listening to them.

And after the conversation, I wouldn't say much. It'd be like, wow, thanks. That was awesome. Like, I really appreciated that. I was like, what I do. But then I was, then I realized, oh, actually this listening thing by itself and like making space for people can make a difference. and then that led to, oh, hey, there's like a career in this. It's called psychology.

And so that led me down a path towards becoming a clinical psychologist. And after a while, I ended up, you know, training as a clinical psychologist coming to Yale. For a few years, I was thinking I'd be on a research path. And I tried it out for a few years and realized, like, you know what? Like, I'm doing good stuff. like it's good stuff for the world. I'm working with, you know, domestic violence and trying to prevent that and helping kids in the juvenile justice system trying to find their way and helping people with HIV

AIDS, like deal with a lot of the emotional traumas that they've experienced in their lives. All good stuff. But it was what I realized that for me, that I needed to like, you know, what to be successful in academia, you need to be writing a lot. You need to be publishing a lot. You need to be writing grants all the time. Yes. And that's super intense.

And I realized that what I wanted to do is I wanted to be that person who was just like the kid in junior high who got to like be with people. And by virtue of my being and my presence, helping them make some kind of a shift or think about their lives differently in a way that made a difference. So that like made me think, all right, I'm going to not pursue research. So what else is there? What else do I? I'm going to stop.

David, I got to stop you. You're monologuing. I love it. I'm not hugging. No, I like that. But what you're bringing up is conflict resolution in an organizational development kind of way, because we're looking at traumas and how that is affecting the population inside an organization, how leadership should be approaching the workforce and how the Transparency within an institution should be delegated for everybody to understand the system and how it's operating, both top down and bottom up. So this is beautiful, which again, going or going into your book, Conscious Accountability, or what I find is interesting about your book is Conscious Accountability, Defined, Expanding Awareness to Create, Deliberate Intentions, Take Informed Actions, and Be Reformed Actions, and Be Reconstantability. responsible or our impact.

Yeah. I love the cover, by the way. It's perfect. I love that. The little squiggly lines going down to a perfect triangle. Yeah. Please expand on that. That would be great.

On conscious accountability. Yeah. So, you know, in getting, in working on this topic, what we, you know, what me and my co-authors kind of realized was that, we're oftentimes we're doing accountability wrong. It's it in and that's a version of accountability we call accountability 1.0. Okay. And accountability 1.0 is kind of problematic in a couple of ways.

One, it focuses, it focuses on results, which is fine. Like we got it, we got to get results, right? But it doesn't always focus on relationships as well. And so we're saying like, accountability needs to focus on results, but it also needs to needs to focus on. What are the impacts we're having on each other as we're trying to get to those results? So wouldn't that be like accountability is the relationship with yourself? Well, it starts there for sure. It starts and, you know, it's, you know, accountability. I always like to say accountability begins at home. So exactly what you're saying. We have to have integrity

within ourselves. We have to make sure that our words and our actions match, right? But as we're trying to create accountability in a team or in a group or in an organization. It's not just up to us. It's a shared. Accountability is always a shared responsibility. So, you know, we have to be, and that means in order to do that better, we have to really double click on awareness. We have to get more aware of our own needs, of our own stuff, of our own selves. And we have to get more aware of what's going on around us and with other people. And like what you said earlier, awareness of the system and what's going on at the system level. So when we can be more aware of all of those levels, self, others and system, we can be much more responsible and responsive

to others that we're working with and others in that system. So that's the idea of conscious accountability. And one more thing about it is that a lot of times stuff goes wrong. right? Things get screwed up, balls get dropped, you know, not necessarily out of ill intentions, most of the time not. But when things go wrong, Conscious accountability 1.0 often ask the question, well, who needs to be held accountable for this, right? How often do we hear that, that phrase? Like, who should be held accountable? And to me, that's a backward-facing approach to accountability that focuses on blame, as opposed to asking a different question, which is, is who's responsible for making this better?

And how can we learn from it? Okay. Which is actually really, really more important in the long run. Perfect. Before we go any further with this, how does this apply to me? How can you teach, can you teach this to me so I can start applying in my daily life? I'm struggling, which I am right now. I'm currently in conflict resolution in my college classes.

I'll have my bachelor's by the end this year in organizational leadership. So I'm currently doing that and a communications class. Okay. I need to do to work on accountability myself. What can you tell me that I can start applying right now that our listeners can start utilizing themselves? Yeah. So this is what we what we do in this book, Greg, is we we create a roadmap to help teach people.

What are the everyday skills and practices that they can do to be to become a more accountable person themselves and to help create kind of accountability among the people and the folks that they're working with. So we call this roadmap the connect framework. Okay. It's seven practices that you can and you can work on just one. You can work on, you can identify a couple that you want to work on. But it's sort of a, those practices, you know, we argue are the thing that's going to help people

kind of really do accountability better. So I can walk you through some of them if you'd like to hear about it. Please, all of them. Let's go through it. Okay, yeah. All right. So we start off with creating clarity. And this is the idea of we can't be accountable if we don't know what we're being

accountable to. We don't know what the goal is. If we didn't know what our role is in, you know, like working towards the goal. Dave, I can't. Yeah. I got to stop you. One of the hashtags for your transformation station is hashtag connecting clarity. It's closing the gap between the goal that we're after and ourselves and filling that in with the context so we can get to where we're trying to go.

So that's fantastic. Spot on with where where you're thinking is going. Yeah. That's right. So, you know, and creating clarity, you know, it sounds like simple enough. But man, when you are working with other people, communication is imperfect. No one sets out to be unclear. And yet, you know, so many times when we thought we were clear, someone else heard something else, or they didn't quite hear all of it or understand all of it.

So there's room for these gaps to start showing up. So we have to, the practice of creating clarity is something that gets not like one and done. It's something that gets negotiated and worked out and reclarified and kind of coming back to. So it requires a lot of patience and it requires a lot of humility to actually do that well. Okay. So that's the first practice. The second practice is when, especially when we're working in teams with other people, we want to maximize engagement.

We want to build up our own sense of engagement and support others in their engagement in what we're doing. And we think about that in two ways. What is commitment? Like how committed am I to what we're doing? And how committed is everyone else? And so how do we kind of align our own kind of intrinsic motivation, the things that light us up just because with what we're doing? So that's sort of, and how do we help other people find that pathway?

You mentioned team building. When did you first discover your inclination towards organizational consulting and team building techniques? You know, I started, you know, going back to that moment where I left the research thing, started finding other ways to be a psychologist, I started doing some work with family-owned companies, which is super complex in terms of interpersonal dynamics. Because, you know, think about it, trying to be in business with your brother or your cousin or your parents or your kids.

It's, you know, that's not always easy to navigate those dynamics. So as I did more of that work, I ended up really discovering executive coaching as a way to help rising leaders kind of find their groove and figure out how they could kind of close the gaps that they had so that they could rise and assume positions of leadership. As I began working with those leaders, if you're working with a leader, you're also working with their team, whether you acknowledge it or not because they're having a direct impact on their team. And so then I began focusing on like, all right, how do I help leaders work better in their

teams? And that got me to team coaching. And I, you know, I did some training and stuff to get better at working with teams. What did you come up with with that last statement you just made with helping leaders? What did you come up with? Is there like an underlining theme that kind of can guide leaders today towards what? Yeah. You know, one of the last.

of the things that most leaders don't know is that the best thing that they can do for their team is to design it well at the outset. And there's some, there's some really important, that's the most upstream way to get to an effective team is by making sure you're designing it effectively. And it turns out there's a number of like really strong research backed principles that if you kind of design a team and design it well, that gets you. you like, I don't know, like somewhere around like 70% or 80% of the way there in getting to team effectiveness, which is surprising. Most people think, you know, it's like, well, it's how we work together. But actually, it's that how we work together turns out is a symptom or a reaction

to how well you design the team. So I look at how leadership has to face an issue or approach a situation with their team. I mean, it comes down to being able to negotiate their own issues, whether it's inside themselves or how they're approaching the situation. No matter every day when a leader, manager goes into the organization, they approach a problem, they are consistently facing issues under pressure, whether it's under pressure or not. understanding organically how we can learn to maneuver around these issues more freely, more with flow, more naturally than what we're struggling with currently.

Could you put some sort of information that can help us level up? And then we'll go back to the seven. So two things I can think of. One is around making sure your team is aligned in their purpose, that everybody's super clear about what we're doing, why we're doing it. That comes back to clarity, actually. You know, like creating clarity. But the second thing is about creating psychological safety. And that's the second part of engagement that we were talking about.

So thanks for looping that back. psychological safety is key because it allows every team member to speak up and not fear that they're going to get humiliated or shamed or that they're going to lose face or lose any kind of status or there's no threat there. They can ask questions. They can put their ideas out there. They can push back. They can bring up difficult topics. They can give feedback. All of those things are really essential for teams to be able to come together and solve problems in an agile and dynamic way. But without safety, all of that gets slowed down or maybe very difficult to do because people aren't able to kind of jump in and be their authentic selves in the moment.

Now, does that apply to this remote setting or slash hybrid situation that, employees leadership are currently facing and how can we look at that towards a global towards globalization for organizations trying to make a global reach into other geographic locations yeah two great points what you know i think that we actually it's more efficient in the long run to slow down and particularly if we're working um across cultures or across geography or a distance that we need to kind of go a little bit further to kind of connect to people and to establish trust and establish and to build relationship. It's so much we take for granted when we're in their room with people about the subtle ways

in which we build relationship before the meeting, after the meeting, kind of just getting to chat with people and build relationship. Usually on the screen, it's harder to do that. So we actually have to be a little bit more intentional about taking some of the time. that we were going to spend just doing the work to actually be in you know, connect with people, find out about them, find out how they're doing, learn about them, build that relationship. And I think it's especially important across cultures because we have a lot to learn

about each other and from each other. And once we take the time to really understand where other, who other people are, where they're coming from, that makes the teamwork more efficient and easier to do. You get hung up less down the road or there's less misinterpretations and miscommunications. And it's more fun. Now, let's go back to your book. We're on number three.

Yep. I'm drawing a blank on these numbers. All I know is it's. It's connect. So it's C-O-N-N-E-C-T. So the N, the first N, is nail it. and simply that is doing what you say you'll do. It's kind of like it's like following through, you know,

making sure the thing happens. And again, sounds simple enough, but you and I both know we live in a world with so many competing commitments that are flying around at the same time. We're juggling and managing lots of things. And that oftentimes we get saddled with kind of what I call,

you know, pop-up priorities, and things that just kind of land in your lap and that seem like they're on fire and you're supposed to do something with them, that threaten our ability to get the thing done. So it's challenging. So we have to really think about how to manage to completion and anticipate the pop-ups and have a strategy to manage them.

See, I would look at this as I would have some sort of a system for myself set in place as a priority of precedence and also having this conscious awareness and does my, does my body match the cadence and what I'm saying? So if I'm saying I'm going to do this, I will do it because I've learned through my trials and tribulations, through my experience in the military, and then my experience out of the military, that what I do, I, what I say I do and vice. Yeah.

But then not doing that. I actually seen a decline in the thing. that I told myself that I was set out to do. I literally watched myself degraded by, oh, I'll do it. I'll do it later. And then I don't do it. Next, I'm not even doing the things that I say I'm going to do. Yeah, right. I love that point, Greg, because so not only does not following through have an impact on things like our relationships and trust and our reputation and how reliable we are in terms of other people's eyes, it even impacts how we feel and think about ourselves not following through, right? It's like that loss of personal integrity. And that takes

a toll. Whether, you know, whether we are aware of it or not, it does. And like it can impact kind of what happens next in terms of how we are. So, so, yeah, so, so that's nailing it. And it's really, in some ways, you know, a really essential practice to accountability. And the next practice is noticing. So as we are working to nail it, as when we're working to kind of do the thing, get it to get things done, noticing is about being aware of our own experience, like just paying attention to what's going on inside ourselves, as well as with other people if we're working with them. And then being willing to kind of speak into that, to check in and kind of bring that stuff up and allow the opportunity for some kind of course correction. but the key is to bring it up if we're bringing it up with other people in a way that's non-judgmental so we talk about the idea of compassionate curiosity you know we're just kind of noticing this we're wondering about it we want to check in about it want to see how someone

else is doing and see if there's anything that's that's off that might get in the way of us not being successful together can we expand on this a little bit so and say for a leader in a and a crisis situation. He is he's dealing with a disgruntled employee and approaching the situation

I know we shouldn't use certain questioning tactics because it can be perceived as triggering to somebody who's already emotionally charged from the situation So how could we apply it to this frame that I just, this picture I just painted for us? Yeah. So might be something like, first of all, noticing how you're feeling inside as you're dealing with the situation, just paying attention to that.

And then noticing what's going on with them and saying, you know, it might be something like, hey, I'm noticing you're really worked up right now. you know and you know is this the best time for us to have this conversation should we should we you know can or should we come back to it you know um should we revisit because you know the thing is when people are super triggered it's it can be difficult for them to really take in new information depending how how triggered they are you can also you might be able to say hey I'm on your side I'm trying to help us both find our way here. And let's see if we can do that together. I'm not coming after you.

But yeah, but we need to have a conversation about this because it's important for both of us. So there might be things you can do with what you're noticing that kind of help bring it down a little bit. Okay, beautiful. And this applies to an organizational setting, but also applies to personal, platonic, interpersonal relationships as well. Absolutely. This model, absolutely. See, the thing is, there's an accountability relationship or accountability equation in every relationship. Like, in other words, like with your friends, with your, you know, significant other, with your family members, we all have expectations and needs in that relationship. Sometimes they're spoken. Sometimes they're unspoken. But there's like a, and so there's a, there's some expectation that there's going to be some kind of accountability to those. those needs and and and so so yeah all of this all these practices apply to all kinds of

relationships not just at work beautiful before we go any further since we're still on conflict resolution what methods of the five do you recommend for your organizational clients um methods of the five methods of tell me say more by by what you mean by that uh within uh your book uh i'm trying to recall where i came across this uh there's There's five methods that are specific within conflict resolution for your, like, what would you recommend from your, to your clients when we were looking at this? Well, if you're, if you're looking at, you know, conflict resolution, I think, you know, it, it, it, first of all, I, you know, hopefully you can, people that can have the mindset as

of conflict as opportunity. That conflict isn't, isn't, isn't actually a bad thing. Conflict can be a really important thing that allows us to make progress. Sometimes you actually have to work through these sticking points, and when you do, relationships can be stronger, and the ideas that come out of them can be better. So first there's like a mindset shift that like, oh, conflict bad. You know, like we have to get away from that and say, like, wait, let's keep the focus, though, on ideas.

Once conflict becomes personal, that's relationship conflict and that's problematic. That actually erodes, you know, team trust and, you know, it can be problematic for dynamics. So you have to make the differentiation between task conflict on one hand, which is good and we need some of that. But then we have to make sure when it gets personal, when it gets into personal attacks and people taking things very personally, then that's relationship. It gets towards relationship conflict, and that is the thing that we want to kind of, you know, kind of interrupt and shift right away. Task conflict, we want to make it safe for to have some of that conflict, because that's the kind of conflict that's going to get to better ideas. So that's sort of, I mean, I think an approach is to, number one, not few conflict is exclusively a bad thing to differentiate between task conflict and relationship conflict. And if it's relationship conflict, we have to sort of, you know, stop it back up, do some repair work there, and get back to our purpose.

Why are we here? What are we doing together? Why does this matter to us? Yes. And, yeah. Yes, with the value proposition on what the organization is delivering in each of its content, it's distributing, whether it's the individual who's in charge. Now, this is raising another question in my head. So let's say an organization is facing conflict as a whole.

Can we apply these methods to the organization and how can they come out avoiding or coming to a resolution in the face of conflict? Yeah. At the organizational perspective, when we're thinking at that level, you know, I think it's important. Hopefully the folks who are, you know, decision makers can recognize. the importance of getting a handle on that. And begin to understand the perspectives of various stakeholders in it to find out where is the conflict coming from? What is the root cause? Where are the disconnects here?

Once we understand, you know, what those root causes are, then we can begin to do something about them. normally with your previous encounter with people you've worked with in the past or something you've noticed through your own personal experience, does it come down to it's the consumer's perception of the situation or is it the organization failing to incorporate a a legal point of view, a logical point of view, and a sociological point of view, if I have this correct here. Hmm.

So the thing is, you know, when there are problems, it's sort of like the blind man and the elephant. You know, you know, that parable where, like, the system is like the elephant. And like one person, the blind, one blind man is like on one part of the elephant saying, oh, an elephant is like, is like a snake. And another one is like, oh, no, it's like a tree trunk. And another one is like, you know, got the trunk. And it's like, oh, no, it's kind of like, you know, like a big tube. And so they all have a different understanding

of what the elephant is. So depending on kind of where you are in the system, if you are, you know, the consumer, you may have one perception of what the issue is. If you're an employee, you may have another perception. If you're a manager or mid-level manager, you may have yet another perception. If you're a, you know, a vendor or even in the C-suite, you have yet another perception. So, right?

So kind of, I think, when we do like organizational assessments, for example, we make an effort to first kind of say, okay, let's get an understanding of what's happening. of what's happening in the system from all of those perspectives. Let's get some understanding. And then we can kind of bring it together and see if we can get more of a holistic picture of what the issues really are here.

And then that'll allow us to make some informed, conscious choices about how we move from there. Beautiful. There we go. It was a little rough to try to get that incorporated into there. That's perfect. That's great. Awesome. So now we are on to, we did, so right after nailing it, it's... And noticing, we were noticing what's going on. And now we've got this other, the next practice is exchanging feedback.

So, you know, basically the thing we can never know about ourselves is the impact that we're having on someone else. We can never know that without getting feedback from them. So we're going through our days every day. and we are affecting the people around us. And a lot of the times we don't know what effect that we're having. We may have an idea, but we may not always really know. And the only way that we can learn and grow and either keep doing what's working or shift and do something else that's going to work better is by getting some feedback.

And so, and this is a problem, especially for leaders, because as they go up the power hierarchy or whatever, people are less and less willing to give them feedback. Well, how do we get real authentic feedback versus some generated bullshit kind of comment that you just don't care for? Right. Well, I mean, first of all, I think it starts with being someone who asks for feedback and getting better at asking for it and getting better at receiving it. So when we do that, we create an environment around us where people say, oh, okay, this person really actually authentically does want to hear from me. And that also means getting better at curing feedback, even when you disagree with it, or even when it's like, you know, even if it triggers you a little bit, being able to manage that trigger and realize, okay, this is a data point. This is one data point. And if I'm going to learn, I need to be able to take in the data. And so just to be able to hear it and say, okay, well, thank you for sharing that with me. I appreciate that. And then it's up to you. what you always up to you what you do with the feedback.

But if we can get better at pulling feedback towards us rather than push, you know, I mean, giving feedback is also important. But that's not going to solve. That's not the answer. Because if we're just giving feedback to people who can't take it in, nothing's going to change. Right. So when I'm looking at with these seven takeaways is each one you apply from what we started

at the beginning leads up to this level where you, you are able to, which we're on number five, I believe. This, yeah, this is five. Okay, so we're essentially at level five. So we are able to, if we are applying one through four, then we are able to approach five. Yes. With awareness that we are capable of giving and taking the feedback because we have this conscious perspective to ask it to have the curiosity,

do become better. I mean, if we're just trying to do this, if we just try to ask for feedback, start at level five, and don't do the one through four, we will give off this mixed signal of why, like, why do you want it for me? Like, I'm going to give you this response. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Right. If we haven't done some paving, if we haven't laid some foundation, the five is like too high, it's like going off the high. board and you don't know if there's water in the pool or not. Yeah. You know, it's like, it's too risky.

But, but if we've done our, if we've really practiced those other things, including that building safety, building trust, building commitment, building clarity, we know exactly why you're asking and we feel more safe to give it and receive it. So, so that's, that's exchanging feedback. And it really helps individuals learn and it helps teams learn. And it help. And with, and when we can learn, like, like that, we can be much more agile in how we pivot and how we move. So feedback is key to kind of

that really like real-time learning and adjusting. And that takes us to the sixth practice, which is claiming it. And in claiming it, we take ownership for whatever results we've created. And that often people think about that as accountability, like taking accountability. but it's not just about, you know, taking responsibility, but it's also saying, all right, what do we learn here? So it's reviewing our results, which means you have to actually know what your results were. So it implies there's some kind of like awareness or measurement of how we're doing. And then looking at that and saying, all right, what do I want to take with me?

That went well? And what do we need to actually shift and try and, do something else. And so you take all of that learning, which takes us to the last practice trying again. Wait, before we go further. Sure. With ownership, this is really good. Have you noticed in your line of work as a psychologist trying to incorporate the things that you're teaching us into your clientele or through organizations that people can grasp this taking ownership perspective in certain realms of their life, but lack it in other realms, but then still wonder why they still don't understand. Yeah. No, what you're saying absolutely rings true. And it's true not just for

this practice, but for all of them, that in some realms of our lives, we are more clear. We create more safety. We're able to claim it more. We're able to give. Well, I think it's, it's that, that, well, maybe two things. One may be like in one realm, we are actually working with more awareness of the importance of doing it well. Where in another realm, we might just be like, okay, we might, like we may at work, we may show up and be like, okay, I'm at work, I'm going to do this well. And then in our personal relationships, we're like, okay, and we kind of go to sleep a little

bit. So it may be an awareness gap, or it may be in one context, or, it may be in one context, relationship, we feel more empowered, we feel more safe. And another one, we may feel less safe. You know, a lot of times we'll see, like, and maybe this is true for you, like, in your closest relationships, is it possible for you to have, like, more conflict than in relationships that you're not as close? Oh, yes, definitely.

Okay, so why do you think that is? because you're, I mean, in closer relationships, I don't want to say, yeah, we hurt the ones we love the most. But in this situation, when I'm going to explain is we have this free format kind of capability, well, we can just say whatever we want. And we're still learning. Like, you will never know a person until the lifetime is up. So the only way to figure that out is being you. hey, if I say something and it offends you, shit, I'm sorry.

I didn't know. But that's how I feel like that's how relationships are built. And that's how we learn people through navigation. Right. And many times in people's like closest relationships, there's an understanding that all of that is true. And I can say stuff and it might hurt you. But we're in it for the long run.

I'm not going to walk out the door the minute you step on my toe. Right? That's not how it's going to go down. So, but we don't always have that same level of comfort with other people. We don't know as well. We fear that if I screw up, I don't get second chances, you know. And so we might, we may be much more reluctant or worried to kind of take the risks, to, you know, to give the feedback or to, you know, so it may be, or we don't feel as,

I mean, claiming it. because we're talking about that is a vulnerable practice sometimes, right? Owning where you messed up can be very challenging for people sometimes because they fear that I'm going to be seen in a particular way or people aren't going to, you know, whatever. You've got to erase your vulnerabilities as your authentic self. Fuck that. Yeah, that's what you got to do. Yep.

Exactly. Exactly. So but so so so so people do struggle with it, but man, it can be so empowering. if it when you own it and when you are vulnerable and you can say yeah I messed that up and I'm I can and let's learn from it

let's figure out what we can do with it so we get better and better together so it's it's really and also you know I think that leaders who are become more credible as human when they are able to be vulnerable like that and acknowledge

mistakes, errors, issues. And I think by doing that, they actually create more safety for other people to be human too. Okay, a question just arose. So now with that level of transparency, is there a benchmark that we shouldn't pass that if we convey this much transparency about our organization or as a dating perspective, it's like, well, I don't want to talk to you. You just told me everything about you and I don't think you're interesting. as an organization,

when you give out information where it's it's no longer anything unique, special. Yeah, right. Well, so we also have to

exercise, it's vulnerability and disclosure is, needs to be practiced with, with wisdom. And with sort of

what is your, so we want to, we want to do that in a way that's appropriate to the situation. And that requires some discernment, right? Like how much do you share and how much is like TMI, right? Like we have to sort of be able to make that call, but do it in a way that's aligned with kind of our intentions, our big goal.

What are we trying to create here? And therefore, how much is really important for me to share in moving to create whatever it is I'm creating. Okay. Does that make sense? Yes. Let me, maybe. Let's apply it to a small business perspective. Sure.

Just looking at a small business and their value proposition and making a global content marketing strategy towards consumers. How would you apply it to that? Okay, so we're talking about how much do you, we're talking about disclosure, right, and how much you share. So, I mean, I think figuring out, you know, what are those consumers really need to know about us and know about the product in order to, you know,

And what do we know about them? You know, so again, starting with the consciousness part, like, how do we be really aware of who we're talking to and what they're about, what their needs are, and then sort of sharing in a way that kind of connects with them. So that may be information about the product, but it also may be certain information about who we are as a company and what our values are. because when we connect on that values level, that is like probably one of the deeper places

where we can connect with other people, regardless of whatever our superficial differences might be. And is there ever a disconnect with trying to connect with consumers the same way we're trying to connect with the employees and matching the organization's approach to the leadership as well as the workforce, having this camaraderie of just this giant value proposition everybody's living and breathing.

You know, I think it's really nice when an organization, if they really identify what their true values are, not just the values like, oh, they sound really nice and I'm gonna stick them on the wall and everybody's gonna be like, you know, let's all throw confetti up in the air and say how wonderful we are. Like, no, but like to actually be.

They're like the first that said that, so that's buddies could be. Well, you know, it's, it's true. I think sometimes these things become meaningless if they're not really true. And sometimes people also list like 50 values or like, oh, we stand for these 12 things. No one's gonna even remember that.

Like make it three tops. that actually speak to, that really inform people about what you stand for and that help you think about if you're an employee, how do I use that value to like make decisions in my day to day? Those values should inform and help you think about how to make every decision you're making should be in some way rolling up to or reflecting those values. So that's when you said like the big UVP that everybody can see and get behind. I think it comes down to being really conscious and clear about your values. And your values may not speak to everyone.

And that's okay because you probably are not trying to sell to everyone. Right. And you're not trying to attract everyone to work at your company. So being clear on that allows you to be. clear on who you're selling to why that matters and who you are as an organization and why people would want to work there and find a fit between themselves and who you are. Beautiful. Okay.

Let's move to, I think we're on number six. Well, the claiming it is six, so we're wrapping that one up. And the last one is really trying again, which is basically, you know, taking everything that we've learned from all of these other practices as we're working. working to nail it, what we've noticed, taking the feedback, taking what we've learned as we've kind of reflected on our results. And then really thinking about how do we apply that learning to the next time that we are in a meeting, the next quarter, the next project, whatever the next thing is, but pulling that learning forward. And so what we're doing is creating a virtuous

a cycle of continuous improvement because we're constantly learning or constantly reapplying that learning and adjusting our approach. And so that, again, allows us to build relationships stronger over time and also build better results over time. And that's a great feeling. Let's let me look at this. Let's say I apply this. Me as a, I'm in a leadership position. I'm setting the standard to these employees that I'm managing right now. And I've been working at everything you just told me for about, say, 29 days to make sure this habit becomes authentic, becomes what I believe in. Yeah.

Now, what do I do? Now that I did it, what's next? Oh, there's no next. This is a continue, this is like, there's no end to this journey. this is a this is a lifelong journey that this allows um we never ever quite arrive we are just always in the practice of these things because we can we we can always there's always new challenges and we always have to begin to continue to work on our clarity we have new people coming in and out we have to work on building those relationships building the safety um you know we're always

working and nail something um and in the process of that, we've got to get better at bringing our full awareness to that so we can notice and course correct as we're going. So, and so, you know, and there's, so it's just really a cycle that kind of we just practice and continue to up level at. And it's, and you know what, we're going to practice accountability great on some days. And other days, we're going to suck. And we're going to drop the ball and it's going to, and you know what? That's okay. Because as long as we're like paying attention, there's always stuff we can learn about what helps us be great and what helps us kind of avoid those, you know, avoid the traps and the pitfalls that degrade our, you know, our capacity or our ability to do this stuff. So I see what you're saying, like as far as not applying all seven, but maybe just applying to or a situation or throughout the entirety of the day.

of a day. But let me, can we utilize this practice in a micro perspective and a macro perspective? And can we look at it as, again, like what we said as an, as an entity or an individual or a situation, can these all be malleable to a specific person, place, or a thing? I think so. I mean, I think, I think, you know, like, here's a micro perspective. Like, my, my eight-year-old comes in and he, like, is continually just, like, walks in the house, drops his coat on the floor and, like, walks away towards the TV. And I'm like, hold it, buddy. Can you help me out with that coat?

Like, and he's like, Daddy. Like, honey, this is a thing. Like, this is the thing you got to learn. Coats don't live on the floor. Come on. Yeah. So, like, so there's, like, setting clear expectations. you know, trying to do that in a way that kind of isn't totally punitive,

but just kind of enrolling him into this idea that, look, we all have to be responsible for ourselves. So it works in these little micro moments. And then it's also you can step back and look at the big system and think about how are we creating a culture? How can we be more intentional in creating the culture of what it feels like to be, here. And I think these practices, when we perform them together over, you know, over time, really help, you know, we can create a culture where this is the way people operate.

And it's, and it can really, and, you know, I always say that, you know, if, was Peter Drucker, who was like a management guru said, culture, each strategy for breakfast. Do you ever hear that quote? I have not. Okay. So, yeah, it's funny. And I don't think he meant it because, like, strategy, like, isn't important. But, like, strategy is, like, the direction that you're going. Like, if you're on a ship, like, strategy is, like, the destination and, like, plotting the route to get there. But, like, if you're in a ship, culture is, like, the ocean and the weather. So it's like, it can either be the thing that is headwinds that's, like, and rough seas that. throws you off course, or it can be the thing that is tailwinds and calm and smooth seas that push you faster towards where you go. So that's beautifully, like, I never thought of it like that.

I like that. Yeah, yeah. So when we think about like, I think this Connect framework can also think about, you know, help us create that culture that's just in alignment with who we want to be and what we want to accomplish. And we can be more intentional about that by together thinking about our daily practices and how we treat each other. Now, you mentioned that you're a father. Do you see yourself applying these practices to your child's life? Oh, yeah. Totally. Totally. I have to do a lot of noticing of my own experience and be like, you know, holding myself accountable. Sometimes it's easier to be like,

okay, he's been playing that video game for the last 45 minutes. Like, do I want to like, I can fold more one more, you know, thing of laundry or I can actually get this thing done. Or I can say, okay, it's time to do something else. Let's get a book. Let's, you know, let's use your brain in a different way. And so, you know, I have to be aware of and connected to my larger intentions for how I want to raise him. And that's, and that's challenging. And, you know, sometimes to not get hijacked by the,

by the immediate situation. Like, let me just, you know, answer this email, you know, whatever. Like, no, I've got to like, and you said it earlier, prioritization, being aware of what our most important priorities are is one of these things that is really important in kind of, you know, figuring out how we're going to be. So this is a really good point. Like, I wanted to go into. So as a parent of trying to apply these practices in a conflict setting with a young adolescent, how would you apply these fundamentals into making the right approach? Your definition of the right approach.

Yeah. So adolescence is a whole other kettle of fish, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I'm not there yet. But, you know, when when we, when, when folks get to be teenagers, obviously, you know, things are happening differently. Their peers are becoming more important. Their peer system is kind of, you know, has more of their attention a lot of times. And they're struggling to kind of have more autonomy, right?

They're working to kind of shape their, to have identity and to feel more independent. So they need the ability to begin to stretch their wings. So where conscious accountability comes in for me is sort of thinking about, all right, what are the big needs here? If we step back and look at the picture of like, what are they working on to become, to grow into themselves,

to become, to mature, like what do they need right now for me? And it's probably a combination of, you know, they need some structure, but they also need some room. And they need to feel connected, but they also need some ability to push back.

Right. And so how do we, it's, and it's like a little bit like finding the balance between all those things. So it's a very dynamic process. Nobody gets it right. Exactly every time. See, I'm looking at this situation or just as a parent trying to parent a young adolescent, And I feel like it's like, I feel like they're trying to overcome the, the issues that they're facing and themselves. So their child doesn't take those on.

I don't know if I delivered that right. No, no, no. I know. I got it. I got it. I know we project in every, like, conflict. How do we avoid that? And how do we, go ahead. Yeah, no.

You're right. I think you're spot on. The other thing that happens is our, we relive our own. stuff. We relive our, we have our own fears, our stuff from our own childhood comes up. And I think it's, I think two things. One is to try to be as aware as you can be about what are those fears. What is your own stuff? Kind of sorting that out. Like, this is, this is my stuff. And, you know, like, example, my kids, my kids goes to basketball. And, and, and I hated basketball. was terrible at basketball. I was afraid of basketball. So like, or just like afraid to do it because

I was so like bad at it. So like, you know, like, so I have all of these worries about him feeling the way I felt. And actually, he doesn't feel that way. He's, he's definitely like, not one of the better players at this point, but he loves being there. And so, you know, if he like misses a pass or you know you know doesn't do the right thing like part of me goes oh but then i have to recognize i cringe but for me i have to recognize that that's my stuff that's my old stuff that's not him he's out there having a good time you know so so we have to be able to like recognize what's our own kind of stuff and and know that that's actually not necessarily the same thing is what that that kid is about or what they're experiencing.

That's beautiful. So I had one of my old martial art professor or martial art black belt and cramaga, my old instructor is on. Yeah. Sense. Yes. We talked about just the psychological stress. And for some people who go into a martial arts gym, like just that fear of walking.

the door. And I remember that feeling. Like I've forgotten it for a while. But when I first started out, it was extremely just, just, I came in thinking of the word of just fear, of going in there.

And all I can expect is getting my ass kicked every time. But after a while, it's just like, oh, let's go do it. Like, I'm ready. Yeah, yeah. You grow into it, right? Yeah. That's how we grow.

We grow, we step a little bit out of our comfort zone. And then, you know, we get kind of acclimate and be like, okay. And now take the next step. And then that's how we kind of grow into all sorts of stuff. Isn't that how low state actually is? I mean, just it's being challenged that 4%. I know there's sources behind these numbers.

But I feel like just a little bit more is the commonality for growth and for optimization is just that a little bit. Yeah, we got to feel stretched. We got to feel like this isn't just, you know, you know, like the easy course here. You need to feel stretched. That can, that, it dials in to our need for mastery. Like, mastery is one of our basic needs along with autonomy and,

and connection and relatedness, is mastery. It's why video games can be so addicting, because we're constantly challenged to go to the next level and we have to solve the problem at that level. And when we do, it's like, yes, we did it. That's that mastery need that we all have. So that stretch, that little bit of being outside of our comfort zone, gives us that real thrill of mastery when we kind of get through it.

That's beautiful. David, okay. So we're going to transition into wrap up here. Okay. Just wanted to get a couple simple questions in and we'll share your personal information and we'll have you on your way. But what is your definition of transformation and how is that applicable in a organization set? Wow. Transformation is like when we actually means like literally defined me. means like changing form.

Yes. Right. And so I think that, to me, transformation happens when we change from something that's more transactional, which is short-term focus and maybe focus more on me focused, to something, when we're able to focus on something that's longer term and that's bigger than any of us. So when we think about in an organization, when we can focus on the thing that we are trying to achieve together and we get outside of ourselves in that way, it unlocks a deeper sense of connection and purpose, and commitment.

And it's a whole different feeling and a whole different ballgame. Work is no longer work under those systems. You know, system. And that's like a transformation, right? Yeah, yeah. No, I like that. So with a leader,

how would you define a leader and how would you define a good leader? Well, a leader is someone very simply who is influencing the people around them. Leadership is about influence. And so if you're having, if you're influencing people around you, you're a leader. If you're influencing people around you in a way that's conscious,

in other words, you are being intentional and deliberate about what the impact of your leadership is. and that you want it to be. That to me is being a good leader. Wow. I like that. How would you get somebody to embrace their vulnerabilities as their authentic selves? Well, I think it starts with being able to really accept yourself as you are.

to know that you're actually just the way you were supposed to be made and you don't need to, you don't need to become someone else to be better, to be like better. You're actually whole and it's okay. And once you recognize that, then it's okay. Then you can be vulnerable because there's nothing really at stake.

Okay. So if I understand this correctly, I'm trying to just get my, just to get that 1% like gain in life, whether it's taking Ginkgo or working out of the gym consistently. But looking in the mirror and saying, Greg, yes, these things that you're going towards, it's will help you better yourself towards a specific goal, but you are. are who you are and you are ready whole. Yes, that's right. That's right. You have everything you need for the journey right there, right inside of you. I like that.

Okay, David, so how can our audience get in touch with you if they want to get your book and learn more about you? Sure. I think the quickest, easiest way is to go to our website, which is conscious growth partners.com. And feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn. I'm there and David C. Tate, so come find me there and be happy to be in touch.

Thanks for joining us on this adventure of growth and discovery. If you're ready to achieve a sustainable transformation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you'd never miss an episode. And hey, if you've enjoyed the show and want to support it, Take a moment to leave a podcast review on Apple or your favorite podcast platform. Stay connected with us on social media for behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, inspiring quotes, and the latest updates. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Just search for YTS the podcast.

Until next time, remember, change is constant and transformation is inevitable. embrace the journey and keep rocking your way towards a better you. Stay bold, stay curious, and stay true to yourself. See you next time on your Transformation Station. LifeLock, how can I help? The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't. One in four taxpaying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud. What do I do?

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