Your Transformation Station - 126. Technology and Parenting: Raising Kids in a Digital World

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Anthony Losacco and Greg Favazza, tackle head-on in a dynamic conversation that covers everything from the pervasive influence of technology on our children to the critical skills necessary to navigate the digital workplace. We share our own fatherly experiences and discuss the nuanced approach needed to help our kids thrive in this connected era. EPISODE LINKS: Anthony's Book: https://www.amazon.com/Analog-Parent-Raising-Digital-World-ebook/dp/B0CJ4YVKJZ/ Anthony's Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonylosacco/ Article Reference: https://www.commonsensemedia.org/kids-action/articles/tweens-teens-and-phones-what-our-2019-research-reveals Helpful Source: https://tech.ed.gov/publications/digital-learning-guide/parent-family/ Must Follow Leadership Podcast of 2024: https://podcasts.feedspot.com/business_leadership_podcasts/ OUTLINE: The episode's timestamps are shown here. You should be able to jump to that time by clicking the timestamp on certain podcast players. (00:00) - The Impact of Technology on Parenting (14:33) - Digital Learning and Privacy Concerns (26:17) - Risks of Technology and Parenting (33:20) - Algorithms and AI (46:56) - Violence's Impact on the Internet (53:57) - Humans Modify Reality, Importance of Family (01:08:05) - The Impact of Settling in Relationships (01:13:58) - Embrace Transformation on Your Journey PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com⁠⁠⁠ Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/apple⁠⁠⁠ Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/spotify⁠⁠⁠ RSS: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/rss⁠⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/youtube⁠⁠⁠ SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/facebook⁠⁠⁠ - Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/instagram⁠⁠⁠ - TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/tiktok⁠⁠⁠ - Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/x⁠⁠⁠ - Pinterest: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/pinterest⁠⁠⁠ - Linkedin: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/linkedin⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I saw a meme where they showed like a kid up close to the TV and the parents yelling at him saying, you're too close. And now it shows him as an adult wearing VR goggles. I just think that's funny. I see that. That's exactly it. You're listening to a podcast that encourages you to embrace your vulnerabilities and authentic self.

This is your transformation station. And this is your host, Greg Favaza. So it's Anthony Losaco. Losaco. Losaco. Yeah. I'm close. What is that?

With a name like Favaza, I'm assuming we share a lineage. Yeah, that's what I was thinking there. Yeah. Where are you at right now? I live in Pittsburgh. Okay. Say that again? I'm in Pittsburgh and I live in Pittsburgh.

or I live in Pittsburgh. I'm in my home office. Okay. Excellent. Yes. You have a book that's about the nuclear family and the challenges of technology bringing to raising children. Yeah. Yeah.

When did you release that? So I wrote it during COVID. So released it last fall. I have been releasing videos online, which kind of tell the tale of the book in a very short video format and going with the name of the book, the analog parent. It's done with stick figures and meant to obviously drive the analog piece of it home, but also keep it very simple, plus artistically, I'm not that talented. So it's a lot easier to draw stick figures. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's really prevalent right now. I mean, I'm a father of a two-year-old boy,

and he already has a gnat for technology. And doing some research for this episode, it kind of is a wake up moment for me because it's a learned behavior. Obviously, he sees Daddy on the phone all the time, and that's where he's starting to pick that up, where he needs to be on the phone as well. Well, and, you know,

in your late 20s early, 30s? 32. Okay, so exactly who I'm writing this for. It really is a two-pronged approach for me. One is we used to always joke when we were raising our kids that I need to send parents to the Losaco boot camp for parents because I found that somehow my parenting philosophies when our children, you know, and this is going back 20 years, we're growing up,

were very different than what was being professed. So that's kind of piece one of the book, is sort of the old adages hold true today that, you know, raising children in terms of, you know, spare the rod, spoil with a child, things along those lines. But also now what you guys are facing is far more detrimental than what we ever faced. And, you know, I'm of Generation X.

So while we were the original, of the digital slash video revolution, we didn't grow up with it. In fact, I didn't even have a cell phone until I was 30. So knowing that piece of it and thinking about it from a desktop standpoint, you know, I grew up with a Commodore 64, very different technology than, you know, this thing. This thing is far more dangerous, far more insidious than, you know, what our kids even grew up with. And we had the plug-in. You know, it was, I think when our kids were going up, the, the Beethoven for kids' music video was out. So when you wanted to shut down for a second, you pushed them over in front of that video. And it was like, ah! And, you know, they had classical music playing in the background, this notion that, you know, music stimulates the brain and, you know, video gave you a moment's piece. But the reality is, is there wasn't a device you could quote end quote plug your kid into. And then the bigger issue

that parents have is what are they viewing? And how often are they viewing it? You know, we used to be yelled at as a kid for sitting in front of the TV. Well, we only did that maybe a couple hours a day, you know, video games weren't even a thing. So I saw a meme where they showed like a kid up close to the TV and the parents yelling at him saying, you're too close. And now it shows him as an adult wearing VR goggles. I see that's funny. That's exactly it. And you think about it. It's like, okay, it was okay to stick your face, you know, it wasn't okay to stick your face this close in front of a TV. Now, you know, this is like the norm in terms of how kids today interact.

And your generation grew up with it, too. I mean, you had digital day one. You had the internet day one. I couldn't even fathom what that looked like. Just think about the notion of, you know, obscene content. You know, just keeping it, you know, very, very simplistic. if I had the ability to type in boobs and have something magical occur, I can't even imagine what that would do to my brain.

You know, the minute I, like, all you could do in my age was you could type 80885 and turn your calculator upside down and it said boobs. But the notion of the, even when the Internet came, out. You know, it was dialogue. You know, did you experience dialogue? Yeah. No, I did. To an extent, I mean, I'm the youngest of seven. So it was kind of hard to, I mean, to even get time at the computer with all the competition. You're even more of an anomaly in your generation, having that many kids. Yeah. So it's, it's a fascinating experience that I went through because, I mean, we don't want to go into that.

But well, it's kind of part and parcel for the call, but youngest of seven means you can take a beating. Exactly. I definitely can't. And that's where I went into mixed martial arts to learn how to get over that. That does help. Yes. But even imagine your upbringing and yours being very different in that you probably had less time than the average kid your age. But now imagine to your childhood, two years old, I think you said.

Yes. Two, and is there a device already? Well, the device is more of mommy's phone. Yeah. Exactly. And then you go, all right, so now they're using the phone. What are they download? And when it's mommy's phone, you can kind of control that.

but what often happens is there's more and more freedom given to the internet than there ever was given to just their external being as a whole. You know, think about the notion of when you were growing up, how often were you allowed to walk to wherever you were going or ride a bike? and what age did that become normal for you? Well, it was probably very different from the age I was walking around as a kid and what was normal to be let really kind of loose on society. Now you have the internet, which is this microcosm of absurdity, really. You know, in the book, I liken it to imagine if you grew up like we did and the only source of information was a library.

And instead of the library being organized in a Dewey Decimal system where you can actually pull out what topics you wanted, all of the books were piled in the middle of the floor. And then you had to go and you had to sort through to find all of your different thing. But now the librarian is actually what they call today a search engine. But what people often forget is, is the librarian of the past used to go,

what are you looking for? And they might help you go through the Dewey Decimal System and read up of the cards, which is something probably foreign to you, and you pull the card up, and then they walk into the section in the library. Now imagine that same scenario where the pile of books happens.

Your librarian slash search engine now has an opinion. And instead of them giving you the book that you're actually looking for or giving you five books that show you the pros, the cons, and somewhere in between, they only give you the book they want you to have. Yes, or recommended or even based off your own personal searches prior to. So now I want to preface this with, preface my question here.

I mean, back in 2019, there's a study done between parents and teens out of 1,200 or 1,200 parents and their children ranging from 13 to 17. based off the Common Sense Media University of Southern California, they looked over just mobile phone usage. 66% of their parents said that they feel that their teens spend too much times on their devices, while 29% of the teens surveyed said that their parents spend too much time on their devices. It's so true. And that's where it gets even weirder now.

So imagine, like, I wasn't a device guy. I mean, yeah, I have this freaking thing and it drives me crazy. And my goal is to actually get rid of my smartphone and go back to a flip phone and then have a Wi-Fi and have a tablet in case I need the Internet and use it. How I think it should be used is more of a tool for a utilitarian. purpose than a tool for all of your life's existence. Because if you look at other studies, and that one shows just usage and the notion of what their parents think and what the kids think about their parents' usage, now if you look up depression in your generation and Z generation and the advent of technology, and then we have all this social contagion out there,

But it's real. And all of these different, like, you knew it started going really sideways when it wasn't just pedophiles and freaks you had to worry about stalking your children, but you had to worry about just stupid content affecting your kids. And that's where you have your internet challenges, the cinnamon challenge, the cold water challenge, the whatever the hell challenge. You know, those are things that are. now not only becoming just dumb, but they're also becoming mildly dangerous as some people

have been injured as a result of taking on the challenges. Yes. Anthony, you love the monologue. And I'm sorry, please. You're okay. You're good. You're good. And thank you for interrupting. Yes. Before we go any further, can you just paint a little snapshot about yourself and who you are, so our audience kind of know a little bit about you. Sure. Really quick and easy. I went to school. I was going to be a psychiatrist. I took both psychology and my pre-med requirements. I then thought I was going to be a rock star and did not go to medical school and got kicked out of the band about a year and a half later and realized that I would have had a much longer uphill battle continuing my educational path.

Somebody told me that this one company had a great training program, and I ended up in IT. So for the last, my career really has been spent with technology. And it's interesting when you underlie the background from an educational standpoint, the common sense experience of just growing up and raising children and then watching technology and the trends of technology kind of change. And that's one of the things that I also address in the book. Beautiful. I would love to for my monologuing.

You're good. You're good. You handled it very well. Other people that I've interviewed didn't handle it so well. So you just said, shut up. So if we were to look at like today's challenges with raising children in digital age, I mean, we have to understand screen time and device addiction, cyber bullying, privacy concerns, online predators, digital footprint, distraction and productivity, to sleep disruption, and adequate physical activity, content exposure, social skills, and social skills, and, empathy, and lastly, technological addiction based off the parents. Now, this information is from tech.edu.gov publications, digital learning guide for

parent family. Yeah, that kind of sums it up nicely in terms of the variety of issues that you run into. You know, the one, if you notice that, at least when you started outlining all of those, to me was you've outlined almost every bad thing that comes with it. And when you look at that whole list, there was really only one good thing. And that was productivity. And that could also be perceived as a negative.

Now when you look at chat GPT and you go, so what does AI mean for productivity? Well, right now it means plagiarizing in a lot of sense for the student not doing the work. Yeah, that just came out with Turnin'In.com. They're cracking down on it on all universities. Yeah. And when you look at that list and go, holy cow, there's more negatives to this thing, which

is my point, than there are positives. And when you think about it simplistically and go, all right, what are the positives? Well, you have information at your fingertips. So, yeah, you can get a lot of information very quickly, but understanding of that information takes a lot more time. Yes, and this is how I'm able to integrate organizational leadership and business, views on businesses with understanding the concept of information that's being shared throughout the organization and how helping employees correct. Yes, employees take this information and can grow with this information, allowing it to be a transferable skill, rather than just regurgitated knowledge that doesn't help them critically think outside the realm of their own position. Very well said. You know, you have two different things there.

You have a business approach, which is how do I make my employees productive? give them the opportunities to either increase their skill sets within the dynamic of the business utilizing technology. And then you have the darker side of the business side, which is, all right, are they going to be unproductive? Are they going to be looking at videos all day long? Are they going to be I-Ming each other? You know, I also made the transition business-wise when I noticed HR departments started changing. And they started changing with the millennial generation. Yes. To illustrate, that was the first time I had ever been told by my HR either recruiting team

or just the HR monolith as a whole, that I had to change my criteria and approach for the applicants coming in. Never before has that been the case. So every other generation before was, I got a job. Do you want to work? And then the people came in and you hopefully only looked at behaviors and traits. And you found the best behaviors and traits within the most qualified individual. And merit always won out. Now when you look at it and go, all right, I'm catering to a specific generation to say, well, what is our technology footprint? These were real things. They are used to I-Ming and they use technology differently than we do and email's not going to cut it. And, you know, what does the, you know, the cafeteria if you have one, have to look like? It has to have more of a social side to it. What is your social responsibility as an organization? Why is an organization even remotely in the

business of social responsibility? If you're a phone company, you should be focused on providing the best phones and the service that you have. Now we're saying, aha, but to this generation, they'll like us more if we do A, B, and C, and D. And that just didn't hold true. You know, and I had the pleasure and the experience of also building an academy. So I was recruiting off colleges, so I got to see it firsthand, kind of, A, how they use technology, B, how it became an imposition. I had to fire some people as a result of too much technology usage and see how it also became a productivity thing. But what I noticed as well is my approach didn't change.

And because my approach didn't change, they were better presenters, they were better speakers. And there was a whole underlying engineering side that they had to learn as well. But I was giving them the life experiences of, you're going to be in a room with adults. Now you need to learn how to behave. like an adult and actually use presentation skills with people in the eye, you know, get them out of their comfort zone.

Let me backtrack here. Sure. With you just saying if it's just a phone company, you should be providing the best service. Now, today with all organizations, now it's not only just the service they're providing, it's now coming down to a content strategy with connecting to their audience. I feel like within today's digital age, we have to have these certain set of skills for everybody. It's almost like it's a requirement to be hired somewhere. You have to have Microsoft suit skills.

You have to have Adobe suit. You have to be able to create the PowerPoints, but also be able to use all this information and to be able to critically think. how can I connect to the audience of the organization utilizing the vision, mission, and direction of the employer, and having that ability to look at the perceived understanding of what the audience or a consumer is thinking towards, the organization. Sure.

I see that in a few different ways. So what I think you're describing is a new marketing medium. Yes. And what I would encourage people to go back to is listen to the comedy

of Bill Hicks when he stated out loud that if you're an advertising or marketing, you should kill yourself. And he does it much more poetically than I do. And he explains it much more politically than I do. But the gist of it is you're really not presenting anything of goodness to an individual. You're selling something.

So I don't disagree that it's a new marketing medium and you have to keep up with that marketing medium. And, you know, in technology, a lot of that when you look at it digitally comes down to user experience. So you have the UX, the CX and the EX, you know, employee customer. user and the interfaces that associate with that, that is all about the interactions as it relates to the fundamental underlying current, which is what is the good or service that you're supplying? So back to the phone company. If you're making phones and your outreach now is, all right, well, we have to get on the TikTok and the Instagrams and we have to present to the kids about these great phones.

All right. But that's a marketing endeavor. That's actually not communicating. And when you look at, and I always say this is, it's the last commercial you remember, either waiting for a YouTube feed to go away or waiting for something to skip on Netflix or whatever it is. Remember the last thing that actually was like, oh, my God, that hit me so hard. I've got to go out and buy that.

it's fodder, it's noise. It doesn't even register anymore. There was a great book called Beyond Google. And so far, I don't think his prediction has come true. The guy who wrote it also wrote a book Beyond TV or something like that. And he predicted the advent of cable. And what he was saying about Beyond Google was, if all you offer are free things, what is the value in free? And if you look at it, you know, if you, you, you sign up for anything today, you are the product. People always complained, and you might not remember this, but 10 years ago, there was this big financial crisis, right? And we had to spend a trillion dollars or else the world would end. And which one? 2007, 2008. And yes, you're right. We spent many trillion more sense. Great. But we had to do it because there were all these evil banks that were, putting people into contracts that they didn't understand and there was this whole housing collapse as a result. Who cares about that? When you look at it and go, that was a willing participant

who actively sought out a bank. When you click something, there is a 400-page contract that you are signing up for, that you have no idea what you're giving away. And just taking, you know, I'll take the Google just to poke, but they look at it. your emails, they look at your files, they look at the text within your files, they index, they store, they catalog, everything. If you were to have one of these phones, and I believe it's called Google Dictate, and if you brought it up, you would see every single word, oh, this isn't coming through, every single word you've ever stated by this thing. Every single one. Yes. That's terrifying. Does that actually translate to a business? I don't know.

Can I cab or just add a little bit more to that? So with your emails, if you were to actually open up a Gmail account and go into the settings, you can look at the data of what's actually being collected, because one, it's integrated through YouTube. So now it has this information on what videos you've looked up over the last 38 months. It has this location of your activity, where have you been? because it integrates into Google Maps. It also has your search history,

what you've searched, what you being logged in to the browser of your choice. It has as much more information than people realize. And it does that even when the device is turned off. Yes. And that should terrify people, but it doesn't, because there's been two generations now who have been taught that there's nothing dangerous about digital. And there's something deeply insidious.

You know, what I've said in this book, I talk about the industrial revolution. And what I tried to highlight for people was if you really looked at where, you know, technology was historically, it was about making life better for humans. So refrigeration as a technology. That brought us out of the Stone Age. And the Stone Age, which people don't seem to realize, was only 100 years ago. Say the big thing, like you had ice blocks before,

and you still had to worry about food, spoilage, people were still canning their foods. That was recent. But the technology piece was to make your life, better. I would argue that in the last 25 years since the advent of online internet and apps, if you will, that the only thing that's been created is surveillance technology. Think about the last thing that actually made your life better. Does YouTube make your life better? It surveils you, sure. It gives you content. Okay. Does any

of the apps that are out there make your life better. They surveil you. They throw stuff at you. They're constantly watching you, feeding you, and monitoring you. But on the whole, is your life better as a result? I will jump that if you look at all the depression that's going on, probably not. I got to jump in and say it for somebody here. But definitely YouTube helps me with putting on my truck parts. So it's like there's something I don't understand. I need to know. how to do it. But I will also agree with you with application integrates into other applications. Now there is a connection of information that's being shared between app and app, just like at home with the Alexa and all the digital bulbs and everything speaking to each other. So it knows much more

than we realize. The worst thing you could possibly do to yourself is get anything smart in your house. The worst thing. And it's funny now, you can't even buy a TV that's not smart today. Yeah. That's frightening. And it should frighten people. And here's why.

Because what happens if it becomes not so smart, meaning the power goes out, or the grid goes down, or the internet fails? I agree with you, and I stated in which it didn't come through. is YouTube's great for content. I fix my chainsaw with YouTube. I do a lot of things with YouTube that, you know, when you looked at it in the beginning, that was the case. Now, if you were to say in terms of the video content, and I would like, actually, this is

something I would love to look up, what percentage of the content on YouTube today is about, you know, those useful videos to, you know, making your day-to-day life, better and a million different content-based things that are just feeding you information and then or selling you something else you know all i'm selling here is the restoration of the nuclear family and warning people especially younger people that there's something that is changing their children in front of their eyes. And I could even argue our kids who didn't have digital as heavily, because I was a bit of a Nazi,

was they're still impacted by it. The impact is counterintuitive to your parenting. And that's where it gets weird. And that's why when you see things where your kids are like, that's stupid, dad. I looked up on the internet. It's like, oh, all right, somebody's got the Google going for them. And they believe that that is actually information versus data.

One data point does not make information. Ten data points don't. A million might. You know, this is where I always go. The reason it was the reason people were more informed and more educated in the past is because you at least had to read a whole book. And even if the book was complete garbage, a short book is 100 pages.

Then you had to find another book if you wanted a opposing view. And then you had to read that book. And that takes time. If you watch 10 videos that have 10 different positions, you're not necessarily going to get anything close to information on reality or truth. Let's rewind. So with, you said, with the that's stupid dad so uh with i i'm gonna look at it from a leader perspective if you don't know

the information the mentality is where do i find it so i understand i understand that perspective but then also understanding information whether it's learned experience situational or just academic or just passed along wisdom. But what I'm trying to understand is what I'm like conflicted now. There's two things in my head that are running and they're both competing. It's, uh, with technology, what is it going to be like in the future? That took precedence over my other thoughts. So I got to go with it.

What is it going to look like in the future for our children and, what should we start teaching them now? Okay. And this is the trillion-dollar question, right? Yes. If my argument holds true that technology is now turning into something that is distorting truth and reality and feeding information that is directed versus sought after.

Yes. Then that is only going to multiply. And here's a perfect example. And this is what people don't understand about algorithms. Is algorithms are actually subjective. Yes. They are not objective because they are written by a human being. And a human being is filled with bias.

So when an algorithm produces something for you, and keep in mind, that algorithm can be a search, or in today's world and the future world, it can be AI. But if an algorithm is written by a human, then that human's bias is inherently written into the algorithm. And that's already been proven a million times over, and one of the studies I represent in here is, oh God, no, I can't think of his name, Robert. that's going to bother me now. I wrote about it offensively in the book. Effectively, he studied Google. And he studied Google's impact on elections. And the cool part about it from a nerd standpoint was the most difficult thing about the study was tricking Google into believing they were actual human beings.

Because Google's so smart, it'll tell the difference between a bot. and a human. So to actually convince Google that they were just randomly looking for things versus, you know, intentionally seeing what Google was doing was the most challenging piece of the study. But what they found was Google is actually indeed biased. And not only is it an indeed biased, it was swaying information. And I think you probably saw it in maybe the 2016 is when I think it happened. If you found a Bing search, you pulled up a Google.

search and you put Hillary in and you had like three different replies. Well, now fast forward that bias into AI and into things like chat GPT. Are you actually even being given relevant information? And keep in mind, the relevant information that it's supplying is based on large language learning models, which is only as good as the data that it's fed. Yes. They only deliver. deliberately feed specific information into these AI engines, then what information are you being taught moving forward? So look back into the past, all that information that's been collected is already biased and is already skewed.

Going back. Well, there's warmholding things, you know, and it's true, though. There are so many things that have been wiped off the internet. that for no reason. And you're like, well, wait a minute. And this is my argument. I think it was maybe around 2010, let's say they had the net net neutrality was the thing they were trying to push. So let's argue the reason this through.

Congress needed to pass a bill to make the internet, which was the most free place ever more free. by imposing restrictions. Think about that as a statement. They wanted to make the internet more free by imposing more restrictions. That's simply impossible. It's already free. So to your point is

all of the stuff of the past is being indexed and how has it been being utilized moving forward? Even take medical information. The problem with that is it's taxing enough as it is to surf the web. And then saying that it's going to be free, it should be free, free, as in it needs to be free to every single individual. Yes. And you made a point earlier that not only do the algorithms, and I'm saying do they bias, you are not saying that, but not only are the algorithms biased, you are not only are the algorithms biased,

my thought, but you've made the statement that they're serving information based on your needs, right? So now, not only is it biased from whoever wrote the algorithm, it's biased by you. So now when you search something, it's going, well, what does Greg want? What does Greg want? And then what does the alga want? What does the alga want? Is it giving you truth?

is it giving you information that has been sought after by more people, which again isn't necessarily true. That's why we don't have a pure democracy because they're bad. So how do you get to that notion of right, wrong, and to your earlier statements, critical thinking? Critical thinking and critical debate only can occur when you're given the notion of all opposing signs. And that just isn't going to happen.

And it's already been proven that A, hasn't happened, B, isn't happening, and C is moving forward into something that is also made. So should AI be unfettered? That's really the biggest question with AI is, you know, do you have the dark sci-fi side where the machines decide that humans are irrelevant? Or do you have the, no, they're the friendly machine. that are making our lives better. And it's somewhere in between.

I feel like it might be almost similar to you spending time with a toxic person where you start picking up that behavior just only being around them for 20 minutes. It's already affecting you. Imagine if you grew up and, you know, let's use the fun words that they love throwing around today. Your family's filled with white supremacists. well, and I'm talking to the real kind. The actual kind that believe in Nazi beliefs, that believe there's a perfect race,

that believes that all other races are inferior, that believes that whiteness is the only good thing. Are you going to grow up unbiased? Probably not. And the same would occur if you were brought up under Black Panther ideology in a black family. But the Internet is worse than that. because it's steering you in one direction that you just don't know what the end game is.

And you might have a nugget of something in between, you know, and just do the Orwell thing, you know, does two plus two equal five. And if you're going with the party line, which could be considered an algorithm today, it might tell you that two plus two equals five. So wouldn't we fall back on what we previously learned to help guide us in the direction that we are already being steered to? You cannot, I believe the genie's out of the bottle. And what I think would have to happen if you were really to take this seriously and bringing it back to parenting, I thought I had an approach that would protect my children.

And my approach was make them work for their addiction, their digital addiction. I didn't pay for data. I didn't buy smartphones. The only phone that was allowed was a flip phone. If you wanted that, you had to work, you had to make money. You had to actually pay for your data ongoing, so you had to have a job. So I thought I was teaching work ethic and all these other things. If I were to redo it, I would say no smartphones.

and there wouldn't be a smartphone. You wouldn't have any social media. You would not be allowed to do any of that until you're out of my house. And the reason is because of what we just talked about. It's impossible to control. It's impossible to not have a bias. It is impossible for it to not take your own bias,

mix with their biases, and make new biases. So moving forward, what happens to happen is we have to get technology under control when we're talking about raising children. And children, like all things, need adults. And adults are supposed to be the rational guardians of their children's, really their minds. And this is what people don't get. We're hyper-sexualizing kids. We're making them, honestly.

And this is where you go, why doesn't anybody care? or at least not used to care what anyone under the age of 18 thought. Because you're idiots. You don't know anything. You're not smart. You haven't lived. You haven't experienced. You haven't read a book.

You know, that's why kids were often looked at as meant to be seen and not heard. Because there is no... Why are we listening to Greta Thunberg over the... $4 billion blue and green rock that we live on. What does she know? What can she supply? She doesn't know anything. So what are you listening to this idiot?

Let me ask you this. I mean that in a crass way. Or I do mean that in a crass way, but it's true. And when you go, what's the best case scenario when you get a child after 18 is that they just have an open mind? what's the difference with actual life itself and having an online presence? You're exposed to the same stuff. Well, no, actually. Speed and access.

So you have more access digitally. You cannot go and see somebody get killed in real life. It would be very difficult for most. people at the age of seven to go outside and witness someone get murdered. You can Google somebody getting their head chopped off on the internet today, and there is no protection for your child. Should a child see somebody get their head chopped off? I say no.

That speed and access to information is, that's why you mentioned cyberbullying. Bullying hasn't changed. It really hasn't. The frequency and the delivery of that bullying has changed. It's a lot harder to bully somebody when you have to do it to their face. And that's the other darkness of technology is you hide. You know, I put in there, technology, the technology of the last 20 years has really created three types of people. narcissists,

voyeurs, and I'll throw in that new content, you know, medium creation. So there is a service slash artist slash whatever to it that isn't bad, but it also isn't good. That's a whole thing. We always used to rationalize a car is a great thing.

A car in the hands of a 16-year-old boy is not a good thing. No, it can be a weapon, but let's rewind a little bit because I really want to go deeper. Okay. With understanding the difference between this online presence

and real life, we can essentially do those same thing. We can go to the library and we can look up death. We can find somebody, we can find somewhere in there in a library. It's obviously you can tell I haven't been in a library

in quite some time where this is becoming difficult. If ever. I have probably as long as you have. But what I'm saying is the only difference that I see between online and reality is that the moment reaction is based off emotions where in life you have that ability to think and rationalize is this the right thing to do versus online. You already do it. It's already too late. True, and that's the speed and the access piece.

But I would argue still that you did not have that ability in real life. If I were to take away in your house all smart devices and your Wi-Fi router, how much access would people have and how fast would it come? It wouldn't at all. So you would then have to go outside your phone. four walls. And that's where I again postulate. You can't really see a murder in a library. You can read about it in a book. You can see maybe a still photo of one, but I'm talking somebody burned alive in a cage, in a desert somewhere. You can see that today. I am talking about

war footage that like the most horrifying Vietnam thing was when the monk lit himself on fire. And that's just one horrifying image of a million horrifying images. A, I think it was a Tibetan monk or kerosene on himself and torched himself. Most people in that time frame only saw a still photo of that. And it was a horrifying thing to imagine because nobody before then had seen such horror. And Vietnam was also where you saw video horrors. So you got to see war in its most ugly and natural form, if you will, which is just pure carnage. But that's not real life. And that's not anything you can find today outside of the four walls of your home. I kind of seen some pretty fucked up shit. I don't know why I'm sharing it,

but I'm just going to share it anyway. I used to work. at a nuclear power plant out in Colorado, it was Clear Springs Ranch, and I was doing the, I was the gate guard for egress and ingress of people and transportation. And they were doing some work on the main line that would distribute the power,

like to, I want to say northern Colorado Springs. And they were using that boom. It was just, one guy he was operating that thing and he was trying to get up there to adjust something and he went a little too high and then like um sure and that's not to say but if you look at that and go in your experiences and and if you just take from zero to 32 how many of those things did you actually see what's just in the extreme if you live in a ghetto in the United States. Yes. The likelihood of you seeing more horrific things

is probably more common. Violence. Sexual assault. Murder. But it's still not as common as what you can view on the internet. The kid in the ghetto who has access to the internet still has access to far more horrifying things

that they can ever experience outside the internet. the four walls of their home. Now, can the internet shoot you? Now, that part hasn't been figured out yet, but it can really mess you up. And I think it's been proven that it is messing kids up. And when I get back to what do kids know and why do you have to control it, it's because their brains are still growing.

You know, the male adult brain is still, isn't solid at 25. So you've only been really a fully brained adult for about six or seven years. Think about that. Your brain is just now getting to that point of, ah, I'm a real whole brain now. And before then, how is it processing? That's the other side of it. We can get in, we can go down so many freaking rabbit holes with me.

but if you've ever had anyone with a neurological condition or anyone who has had an endocrinological, endocrinological, something like that, there's something wrong with their endocrine system. You will learn very quickly that medicine knows very little about both of those entities, and yet the doctors go to school for like 12 years. Those are the only ones where you'll hear things like,

well, we've seen and we think, because they don't know. So you're referring to ADHD? Oh, I think that cracks me up in and of itself. You know, everyone, and this is the sadness of psychology, and I've always asked this question of people, both people who are in the field and people who believe in the field. When do you stop going? Never.

Are you free and clear? When is life just life? And this is where he, humans are, as I always coined it, nothing more than a bunch of smart monkeys and apes. Because the reality is while we have that self-awareness of our being, our entity as it relates to everything else within the universe, we still act very poorly on that information. Only humans are so stupid that they will sit there and go, well, I call it the bare defense. You hear about a story about a person getting mauled by a bear.

The first question people usually ask is, well, didn't they know they were in bear country? Were they making lots of noise because you're supposed to do that when there are bears around? And what did the human do that was wrong? Fast forward and go, a human breaks into your house and you shoot them 20 times. people immediately go, oh my God, we've got to get rid of all guns. What is that human thinking? That person could have been sick. They make all sorts of excuses for the human that was doing the bad thing.

Well, I must say, if you shoot them, if you shoot them 20 times, then that proves by the legality that he was, in fact, scared for his life. Now, if it's controlled and you shoot him twice. Bernard gets legal theory. And I don't even know, do you know who Bernard Katz is? No, no. And I might be screwing it up, but I don't think so. He was the first guy that that theory came into play, and they used it because he was terrorized on a subway in New York. And listeners will have to go and see if I'm right about this.

He came back and he shot all of the people who were terrorizing him. The legal theory then became, well, he unloaded. He was scared for his life. Even though he came back, it still applies. The point isn't that. The point is that humans always tend to modify reality and nature as long as it fits their own personal belief at that moment in time. If somebody breaks into your house, you don't know why they're there. You have every right to do whatever the hell you want to do to them.

Because especially if you have children, if you have a wife, if you have your own personal being, and if you were to walk into a bear cave and you got killed, no one would care. No one, not one human being on this planet, because they know that you're not supposed to walk into a bear cave. However, we don't apply that same natural logic, which is, I don't know why you're here. And I don't know what your intentions are. What I do know is my children are sleeping. You're not supposed to be here. and I am the protector.

And my hairs are up on the back of my neck. And every single instinct is firing off saying, bad, bad, bad. But humans are the only ones who will go. There was just recently one. The guy who was killed in New York. He was stabbed at death. His girlfriend didn't help him.

And afterwards, she wouldn't tell the police what the guy looked like because she felt bad that he was black. It's like, he just killed your boyfriend. in front of you. And you're so dumb, you're going, well, he probably had a good reason for it. It's like, no. Oh, God, you're saying so many things that are unpacking right here. So, one, I think that is literally her first time she's ever experienced something so

traumatizing and traumatic that she didn't even understand what the hell was happening. But if we were to rewind, when you said humans modify, now, is that based off social upbringing that could be caused by traumatic events where we had to dissociate, which served us back then? Now, as we adapted, modifying current trends, our current life is that helping us go further based off what's happening in the here and now because they did. not want it to go that way? I don't think so. And I'll say two things on that. Actually, she didn't change her opinion three days later. So the shock and awe of the event, I would wholeheartedly agree with you, worst time to ever talk to anyone about anything. But afterwards, she actually encouraged people to not and not point out who the individual was. And so it was her belief system over her

natural instinct that she chose. Now, take that fast forward, she would not have done the same thing if there were bare mauling her boyfriend. She would have hopefully tried to hit it with a stick or something. And she wouldn't go, hey, that's not supposed to be happening. And she certainly wouldn't go, well, what attacked him? I don't know. It could have been, I don't want to say. I feel bad for the thing that the thing was. And the other side of that is there's a great book called The Gift of Fear, written by a guy named Gavin De Becker, which I cite in the book. And I encourage all women to read it. My daughter definitely did. And it is the notion that humans have rationalized instinct away is the easiest way to say it. And he gives a bunch of, he was an FBI

profiler. You know, law enforcement was his thing. But he gives a bunch of real experiences. where one person throws away instinct and gets raped or murdered or whatever, and one person responds to instinct and beats the living hell out of an attacker with like a pipe. You know, and it's a woman on a man kind of thing. It's like she just lost her shit and was like, my baby's scream. And that instinct of the baby's scream just drove her right into pure animal action. Humans are the only ones who have done it. So when I say we're arrogant, I mean that across the stand.

So arrogance of, you know, arrogance as it relates to the earth, arrogance as it relates to our interactions, arrogance as it relates to the belief that science can cure all. Arrogance in everything in that, we think not only are we the arbiters of all that is, that we should be the arbiters of all that we don't understand. and that's a philosophical question but i would say now that's kind of the distinction that still ties us back to an ever-lutionary realm which is we're just a bunch of smart monkeys and apes and we're not going to know everything it'll never be everything to our everything will not be ours to own uh and understand and the inability to state that is just as bad as the ability to state that you know we can know everything everything. That's how it's that person's, you know, the one event I chose out of a myriad of garbage that we can see online. Yeah. What would you like to? I got to go back to originally what we were going into.

I love going down loopholes like that because I feel like that is the best kind of conversation that is really a actionable takeaway for the audience. But back to your book, where can our audience go to find it? And is there anything else that you would like to share that I didn't get to ask you? Two things. So the easiest is the analog parent.com, and that's T-A-G-A-M-A-L-O-G-P-A-R-E-N-T. That has all the links to Barnes & Noble Amazon. And I am recording the audiobook right now, so that'll be up as well. And then I also put like our video conversation will be on there if you're okay with that.

Definitely. And the second thing, and this is really the piece that I don't think we've covered, is that I want younger people to understand that they've been lied. And it's not to say that all human beings should get married and have children, but it is to say, that most human beings should get married and have children. And you're denying yourself something of a natural right by not experiencing it. And I'm not saying all people have to, but I am saying for the majority that should, you are being lied to. You are being told things like you can't live on one income.

You're being told things like we live too long so marriage is an outdated mode, even though that hasn't been true for two generations now. You are being told to have kids at a later age, a defiance of biology, because women are at high risk at what age? 35. So your eggs rot and they cannot be always brought back. And no, science isn't necessarily the best way to help you procreate after 35. But that's really what I want to get home. kids is like I didn't want to get married either. I come from a divorced family. It's the worst

experience you can have because your life becomes meaningless. It becomes empty. It becomes devoid of all things that family gives you as a human. The foundation of the family is everything. Your role models are your parents. And again, if you don't want to, all I would ask is that you at least argue to the same benefit that, sure, life might be not having kids for you. Fine. Don't. Be a great uncle.

Be a great aunt. Be a great person that helps open a door for a pregnant woman with kids. You know, be that person. But don't be the person who goes, yeah, family's stupid because it's not. And it's worth something. That's what I would say. I couldn't agree with you wholeheartedly. I mean, I've experienced a situation myself from having a family to not having a family.

And unfortunately, there was a lot of narcissism behind it that I couldn't see coming from miles and miles away. Everybody was telling me, but I grew up from a family where my parents are still together and being the youngest of seven. Like, that was all that I could see that mattered. And people will take advantage of that for their own benefit or just the sheer joy of watching it fall apart. Yeah. And that's the other, you know, you bring up a very valid point. Why are we so not only anti-family and the notion that a man and a woman get together, raise kids, become grandparents, help raise their grandkids,

and die with everyone around them who loves them. Why do we not only think that that is bad, but we make fun of people who do? I ran into, you're from seven, I'm from three. Another unique thing is both my parents were only children, which is very odd. But think about how many people today have four or more kids. It's very few.

And I ran into a guy who worked with. He was like, he had four kids. I think he had five actually. And he was like, every time you run into somebody with four or more, you guys are like the unicorns. And they're like, oh my God, you have four Joe. Like, oh, everyone thinks we're nuts. And think about that. They probably thought your parents were nuts for having seven. And it must have been good Catholics. That's all I've got to say. Yes. You took it away. You took it from me. Hey, I'm half Polish, half a Calian. I've got Catholic all the way into the ground. Hell yeah. But, and that used to

to mean something too, right? Tradition, religion. It's not a negative when you look in it in the context of all that it brings forward to an individual. It can be, like everything can be. But in general, it's not. And it's natural. And it's the way it should be. And that's okay. And you're not a freak for wanting to get married and have kids. And, you know, the challenge is then how do you keep it alive and moving, you know, when am I on? I'm 30 years into mine almost as it relates to my marriage. It'll be 30 in two years. And best thing ever, my kids are all adults. And now it's fun watching them find a way, getting the first one married this year. And it's like, that's the life. That's your legacy. That's your history. That's everything. And when you compare it to my

previous history, it's just broken. And it's scattered across the universe and none of it as contiguous or concrete as it was before I was 13 when it all ended. So for those that are actually disagreeing with marriage or disagreeing with, there is a perfect individual out there. I mean, Do you think that's projection or that their information is skewed based off shitty experiences? I mean, yeah? Yeah, you know, it's funny. I talk about this. It's called Marriage 101 in the book.

And the core of a great family is a solid foundation, which means your marriage. So there's a lot of, and I didn't want my influence to be, there's been tons written on this. And there are books that will kind of give you the, here's 104 questions you need to ask each other. I put it a little bit more simplistically is marry your best friend. And I say that because it's the easiest thing to take hold of because pit or patter fades, lust, fades. You know, nature isn't perfect, but companionship and friendship is the least likely to fade. So I would say to them that probably they've been lied to and they've been told that, you know, can there be one person for you? Which I could make an argument saying, well, probably not in every way.

However, if you get 80% of the way there, and again, one of the things I cover is norms, and I don't think there's a left or right, a conservative or liberal, there's just normal and not normal anymore. And normal people forget covered the whole bell, you know, 10% weird, 10% weird, but most of us kind of fall within that range. And that's okay. You're not unique. Guess what? There's 8 billion people on the planet. We're probably not going to be that unique. many Einstein's are there? How many princes are there? You know, take anything of greatness.

How many Michael Jordans are there? You will see that there aren't that many in the universe of things. So don't settle is what I see being the greatest impactor to at least people in my generation. It was this, you see them together with somebody you know they shouldn't be together. They don't break up and then they hit that point where they're like, I guess we've got to get married. Well, then you're kind of going into the, I guess we got to get married because that's the only way we're going to break up category is by finalizing it so we can end it. And I think settling is the worst thing you can do. And there might not be something as known as perfect, but there's not supposed to be. Perfection is something you strive for.

It's nothing you achieve. And people forget these things. Again, the old adages of wisdom that have been around forever are true. The best advice you've been given your whole life is probably true. And if you deny it, you're basically saying, I know more than the wisdom of history. And that's false. So let me ask you this. You raised another question.

With relationships, is it possible that we are missing the fundamental factor of expectation management with understanding what our expectations are for ourselves? for our relationship and for our partner. Now with that in line, that it also requires effort, whether we are applying the effort on the right things or the wrong things, but having that understanding of expectation will allow effort to be directed in the right direction.

Yeah, you know, it's strange because this might fall into that category of too much information again. Yeah. Something we didn't talk about heavily, but just because there is doesn't mean it's good, and just because it's there doesn't mean you will look at it or won't look at it. I look at it and go,

the same problems that existed for married couples when my grandparents were together are the same problems that exist today. See, this is the issue of the ages. is that somehow we've conditioned one, now two generations into somehow thinking they're unique. There's a psychological term called terminal uniqueness. That means, oh, it can't possibly apply to me because I'm so unique. Well, marriage is marriage is marriage. A relationship is hard.

And a relationship with kids is even harder. And you have to work at it. You have to keep trying. You have to put all of those things that are problematic. aside for the betterment of your children. And if you look at family as a journey and not a destination, if you look at marriage as the journey and not the destination, you will find that you can easily push through the adverse points in your life to get to the next phase where it's better and you've come through. So I don't want to be the person that says, you know, that I have

of the marital answers because I'm sure my wife would tell you I don't. But I will say that you're probably looking at it through a lens that is more than cynical when it shouldn't be because it's completely natural in the larger scheme of things. And, you know, I cover these topics within the book and I try to use humor because I don't want to be, you know, a Debbie Downer and talk down to people, but I do make it funny. I have a thing in there called Life is Fair, and I compare that with the slaughter of gazelles in an African desert, and do it in a humorous way.

But it's not what they're telling. And there's plenty of help out there today if you're struggling. I don't think it's necessarily within a psychology framework, but it could be. I don't think it's necessarily within a religious framework, work, but it could be. All I'm saying is that it is the most natural and obvious thing that exists. So why are you fighting it? What is wrong with nature? I thought it was the thing that we all realized was above us all. And that eliminates the, are you in the God or not God conversation? Can you look

in a mountain and not be dumbstruck? You know, nature is everything. And it's a lens through which you should be in your own life. But how you actually come to those terms and the grips with making a better relationship slash marriage slash family, there's plenty of help out there for you. And you probably need to stop overthinking it so much. That's the other thing. I think there's too much analysis paralysis because there's too much information. Oh my God.

Well, this video says this and this video says that and this video says this. And it's like, Jesus, I couldn't even imagine growing up like that. Turn the videos off. we're all a victim of being what is it the Dunning Krooker effect? Yeah. Yeah, I think we're all just a victim of that.

Yeah. We're victims of a lot of things, but usually it's our own stupidity. I like that. Well, how can our listeners get in touch with you if they want to learn more? The analog parent.com is the easiest way.

Fantastic. But I am on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. There are cool little videos that you can watch instead of lying the book and you'll see where the book is going. Well, beautiful. I appreciate you coming on the show today. No, thank you very much. This has been a great conversation. I appreciate it. Thanks for joining us on this adventure of growth and discovery. If you're ready to achieve a sustainable transformation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode.

And hey, if you've enjoyed the show and want to support it, take a moment to leave a podcast review on Apple or your favorite podcast platform. connected with us on social media for behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, inspiring quotes, and the latest updates. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Just search for YTS the podcast. Until next time, remember, change is constant and transformation is inevitable. Embrace the journey and keep rocking your way towards a better you. Stay bold, stay curious, and stay true to yourself. See you next time on your Transformation Station.

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