Your Transformation Station - 138. Fix the System, Not the People

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

Workplace struggles for neurodistinct employees are rarely caused by a lack of talent. They’re caused by systems that create unnecessary friction and environments that were never designed for cognitive diversity. In this episode of Your Transformation Station, Grant Harris, MBA, CDE, examines why neurodiverse employees often face preventable barriers, how traditional performance models fail them, and the measurable organizational costs of burnout, disengagement, and turnover. Episode: ⁠⁠https://www.ytsthepodcast.com/ep138⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Being very clear with shifting from people to fixing systems, I was going to ask like, like, why is that mindset shift so uncomfortable for the leaders that you've encountered? Because of clarity. The whole conversation requires clarity. Exactly. You're listening to a podcast that encourages you to embrace your vulnerabilities and authentic self. This is. your transformation station and this is your host Greg Favaza that's that's can hear me yep I can hear you

now awesome got you appreciate your patience I'm doing all right yourself go forward to the conversation let's let's dive into it a little bit now so one I just want to I want to get it out of the way I'm autistic myself so like in your bio it's like you're an autistic writer, author. And it just, I know why it makes me laugh. I'm not laughing now, but I was laughing. And it's just like, that is what someone would do. They would just frame it and throw it out there.

It's like owning it. And it's just like, I like that. Like, I do. Like that. Yeah, I was, I was late diagnosed about four years ago. And it was only two years ago that I came out publicly on a event. So I've only really been having a time.

conversation for a couple of years and been very blessed to be on many podcasts and have conversations with people like yourself, being on stages, virtual and in person across the country and around the world, not just talking about me as I identify, but as people who think differently in process information. My wife is ADHD. So it's an interesting mix and interesting match up, but it's always good to lead another, Jose. I appreciate it. Definitely, definitely. Before we get started, I just want to make sure your microphone is coming in a little, a little broken.

I just want me, if you're using a aftermarket microphone or if you're using the computer microphone, if not, no big deal. I can edit it to the best my ability to give you a clear voice. But, uh, so a couple things. Help me, help me understand my, I'm using a good strong mic. It's not to the computer, but I do need to upgrade my mic to something like yours. So, tell me understand. Is this a pre-in view for the podcast or is this the actual show? This is the actual show right now.

I got that from your conversation. Okay. I appreciate the clarification. my understanding was what this was this was a pre-intervie. I'm happy to meet the conversation, happy to roll with it. Grant, your work focuses on redesigning how work actually works. I mean, help our listeners separate that idea from normal conventional wisdom and just kind of put your perspective on what that actually is, what that means.

My name is Brian Harris, and I am a consultant and keynote speaker on neuro-inclusive performance and the future of work. And I help enterprises and public sector organizations to save time, keep talent, and deliver value. Ultimately, the work that I do is about helping organizations. fix processes and not people. People aren't broken, although we all have our trials and tribulations, but really in the workplace systems are broken, not, excuse me, traditional, and linear systems that people have inherited

from millenniums ago and from different ages in this country. and they don't fit the mold anymore. And organizations who are doing things in the same way and getting the same result and blaming it on their people, that's a systems issue. So what we do they do in terms of helping redesign work and how it gets done is not to look at the identify as an individual. That's all about them good,

and we can all be able to show up as, individuals, but I identify the systems and processes and where they're broken and how to fix those and not the people that are tied to them and not the people that are ultimately paying place for those failed systems. So that's really the work that I do and how I do it when you talk about redesigning how work gets done. It's how work is done not for the few in the majority, but for the all in the majority. so that ultimately we have happier and healthier and more profitable workplaces so that we don't have to have the levels of different engagement that we have so we don't have to have the levels of turnover or burnout that we do and we don't have to have the level of stress that we do on and when I say stress

I mean the stress on the pipeline on the talent pipeline many leaders today operate under the impression and under the delusion that there's no talent out there, or that the talent out there doesn't want to work, or that the talent that is out there is somehow broken and unworthy. And that's just not the case. What's broken and unworthy is a system and the process by which we evaluate that talent. Specifically, take autistic people for an example, 80 to 85% of autistic people in this country are either under,

or unemployed. That's not an autistic people problem. That is the systemic problem. Organizations, interviewing the same way, asking the same questions, looking for performance, looking for theater, not testing for capability and competency within what we should be doing. And we'll talk about redesigning work. That's the lens that I take. Okay, there's a lot to unpack there. One question that came to mind with looking at it from a consulting perspective, as someone who is outside the chaos, it takes a certain individual to, I mean, to look at the system, but to ask the question, is the system capable of meeting what leadership is expecting it to push out? Have you came across that question in your line of work where, I mean, it's not the people, it's the system, but what they're expecting is unrealistic and having to have them adjust their expectations. It seems to be the biggest problem, I think.

There are lots of big and small problems. It's not about how big the problem is, about where to, it's like a pressure point. It's where to apply the pressure and where to apply. the focus, no matter how big it is. Like they say, you eat an elephant one bite at the time. So it's not how big the problem is. Okay. It's about where to pinpoint the pressure at the right time.

So this is where systems and diagnostics come in. And I want a diagnostic that's based on five metrics that tells an organization that's exactly, point is exactly where a certain failure is. tells me where you're going great, but also tells me where you're not going well and where leakage is present. So, and then the question is not, well, how do I change leadership's mind? Because you can't change anybody's mind. You can change behavior. You change behavior, and that's when you change the result. So I don't work in a space of changing your mind or anybody else's mind. I work from a space of showing people that here is this system and this system is leading to a particular result.

If you do not like that result, that is how we have to choose this particular system in order to get a different result. That has nothing to do with how you think or feel about the result. It's a diagnostic and it's a process that you can be seen and that could be verified and validated through data. So this is not a little conversation. They're looking wrong. with emotions. Everybody has them. You can have them in a place. But when you were looking at a leakage problem, and when you're looking at a turnover, when you're looking at increased labor cause, when you're looking at higher medical premiums because people are sick more often, when you look at $9 trillion dollars, long as annual GDP because people are disengaged in the

work that they're doing, all of these things are system problems and not just people. So you can't fix one person and expect that all of those things do a 180 and go the opposite way. But if you alleviate pressure with a system based on data and when you activate, excuse me, when you diagnose, and then when you activate and then you engage. So that's a three-step process in my T factor. And what's the T factor? The T-factor is focused on the three T's what I call time, time, time. talent, treasure. So how are we utilizing time? How are we utilizing the talent that we have? And what type of utilization from a treasure perspective or a money and financial resource perspective? Well, that's a key factor. And within that, these diagnostic questions come to the forefront. And it's not based on just what you think. It's based on what data felt. And it's based on where we move a system left, right or what we're done.

Interesting. For those that don't know what leakage is, if you can give us an example of that, and with neurodiversity performance in the future of work, how are those intersect in ways that leaders still don't see to this day? Leakage is a common term for underutilization of capability, meaning person in their job is not utilized to their highest performance. So that means that they are not reducing or maximizing their productivity based on their individual level of capability.

And then you have that miss when you're missing that. And that's when you are looking money. You're either paying that person for a month and you're not getting a result in them. And I don't know, we make a strong distinction. I'm not an advocate for or productivity to productivity safe. Many people are productive and they end up

burning themselves up. Productivity is not the end goal. Productivity is a result of effective and efficient processes. Effective and efficient processes means that we utilize not just one person, but the entire system, the entire organization

is utilized effectively and efficiently to the point where they're maximizing the outputs that lead to the outcome that we want. So your report that you produce is an output. That's not an outcome. That's a thing that's created. How much time does it take for a personal department to create that report or that thing? How much money is spent on that person or that thing? So these are the data points that are looked at. And are you

maximizing the efficiency of that? Meaning, are you getting to the outcome as quickly as possible without the rework, without the extra meeting, without the miscommunication and mis-flarification. All leads to leakage because they're leaking time. That little meeting takes time. That meeting that could have been an email takes time. The rework, because the expectation of front wasn't clarified, that takes time. So when you're losing time and you're leaking time, and you're leaking time, you're also leaking money. From the other end of utilization, how are you utilizing the tools and resources in your finances in

your credit box? So if, from a financial perspective, your operating costs, your labor costs, any types of things, if they are not being used effectively and efficiently, you're either overpaying to something or you're missing out on the market because your consumer was able to provide that level of value for that employee. But these are the things when we talk about leakage that an organization doesn't always see it's sitting. It's not even plain sight. And what ends up on the balance sheet, what ends up, what ends up on the P&L, is not that this person was let go and that person was let go.

What they see is they're in the red. What they say is the last three quarters have been lagging. What they see is their competitors are hiring faster and keeping more people. That's what I mean when we talk about leakage. This is what I mean when we talk about redesigning how work gets done. It's not just about showing up and identify. I identify as an autistic, black, homosexual men in America. I'm all about identifying.

But beyond that, I'm about identifying the areas and work that need to be stopped up, that need to be addressed in order for people like me and people like you to maximize their personal efficiency. So we're considered the leakage and the data because we're being underutilized because of these issues that we have dealt with since a child. I mean, when it comes to maybe face-to-face contact where it appears we lack confidence. Well, that's not the case. That's just how we were raised with our issues. So if we were in a position that we just happened to know by the back of our hand, we would own it. We would be maximizing our capability. There would be no leakage.

But if there's a position that we are just learning, we're not utilizing our potential, is what you're saying. Correct. That happens in communication. That happens up front in, and this is not a culture conversation. We work in cultures. Culture isn't built because people want to just feel good. Culture isn't built just because people keep themselves. That's part of what it is.

The culture that I'm talking about is the culture of work and not just self-identification. Self-identification is part of the school. It's a point of the puzzle where you use that self-identification and you don't meet in the middle with how work is translated in the business world to the outcome, then it's still a different. You're still missing. Again, that leakage at that point. If leaders want to not change anything, anything will be broken.

if those leaders have a little time. If it's been, oh, well, we're not ready to change that for this. It's okay, it's not going to be broken, but you're still going to, at the end of the day, you're going to be leaking that time and that talent and that treasure. And at the end of the day, you're missing out on a competitive advantage. Because if you're not making these things, you know, in terms of organization, in terms of leadership, you know, if you're not having these conversations, and if you're not willing to do the internal work,

then you're lagging. And if you're lagging, then ultimately you end up being obsolete. And the organization wants that because they're going to lose all their people. They're going to lose all of the people resources and the financial capital that they have invested the far into that business.

And that's not good for the business of America. That's not good for the business of the economy if businesses are running that way in work it's done that way. So you were touching on it a little bit with culture. I'm trying to connect it with reducing DEI risk of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Can you explain a little bit about that with culture? Well, early on in my career of doing this work, a really free book, and a couple of them based on birth to equity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility. And I wrote those books before my understanding of myself as an authentic person. They stand behind the material that I wrote because I

believe in the true meaning of the Rectady Agreement inclusion, the three separate words, not the one acronym that has been politicized. However, this conversation and the word that I do now is not a DEI conversation. It is a performance conversation. It is a utilization conversation. It is a capacity-building conversation. And if you're doing all of those things, if you're looking at utilization, if you're interested in capacity-building, if you are looking at performance

and now not only the whole, but the pieces of the whole perform, then you inherently will achieve parts of the DEI work without it ever being about the EI. The EI is not an outcome. this number base one is not about platforms it's about constraints it's about architecting a different way of doing work so that the maximum amount of people can achieve the maximum amount of result in effective and efficient way so these are the conversations that i have with leaders because you haven't heard me talk about diversity equity inclusion at all because of these other things are happening. happening. Yeah.

The five of those things happening would be diversity eggling and exclusion. Let's maximize the people that have these still over here. Let's look at the way that we communicate and have conversations in the onboarding process. Let's look at how we cut time. Let's look at how we save time, these types of things. Because when you look at people who think differently and they bring a neuro-inclusive performance edge, it's clear that in the organization that I know, led and the conversation that I have with leaders, that there are people in the organizations

that can save time by seeing around the form. They see before it through the trees and they see the problem coming before it actually happens. The people who are asking questions, they're asking deeper questions to not necessarily bold and processed, but because they're thinking on a different wavelength and that they can think three layers deeper so that again, the problem or the process that are being built in the place to come. Well, the ain't things then.

We're going back to the key factor and saving that time and thinking the most out of your talent, not from a productivity perspective, from a capability and competency perspective. That's really good. I do like that last part. Well, productivity over competency. I just want to be, want to apologize. There's construction going on outside. So if you hear anything like that happening, there's nothing.

There's nothing I can really do at that point. But being very clear with shifting from people to fixing systems, I was going to ask like, why is that mindset shift so uncomfortable for the leaders that you've encountered? Because it requires clarity. The whole proposition requires clarity. Exactly. You have to be clear of all of the. of the jargon, the bubble clicking, the

program works, and I build frameworks. I'm not saying a framework will have a place, but they don't have a place in position it with executives that are looking to diagnose the problem, activate the work around that, and then that's stabilized for the future. Frameworks don't get that done. And I can speak to that because I've created them.

So, look about clarity. Clarity of site and operations, clarity of site could pause, clarity and sight of not initiatives or programs, but in terms of processes and procedures and policies. It's all about clarity. So when you ask the far questions or deeper questions, then you have to look at decision making. Who's making the decisions? How are they making those decisions? Why are they making those decisions? Alignment on what to start and what to stop.

And ultimately what to redesign. So my conversation is about those things, not about the EI. And I'm all for the separating of that term. What is about clarity in decision making and alignment and redesign? of how the box is built so that the box doesn't crumble at the end of the day. I love that. With me looking into it a little bit, I try to, like, I keep capturing coherence, like with what they say isn't falling in line with what they're trying to do.

And clarity is what is allow the company to be coherent in how things are happening. So I'm glad you said clarity that that it's like, yes, that's what they don't want. No, clarity brings. Clarity brings a couple other things. It brings accountability. And that's really the heart of what you were talking about before. Why are leaders afraid it brings accountability? Because at the end of the day, who is accountable?

Who does what I'm win? I'll say it again. This is a theory that I've read about and that I live by. And it helps that I have to be an autistic person who thinks structurally. But that's also why I bring this structure to organization and leaders. It's like, who does what by win? That's a level of the probability that most leaders haven't been held to because they either need to be. Because they've been doing it the way they've been doing it the entire time, power dynamics, etc.

But that's where I can win. Who does what by win? Who's your problem for this product and by when? And that breaks down the ultimate form of clarity because when people are clear and they have a full understanding what they're there for and the reasons that they're doing to work, then work can get done faster and the work can get done better. That's the goal. Get work done faster and better. It can't be one or the other. It can't be just fast.

I always say I'd rather hear something than fast. Speed is not the same as execution. You want speed to execution and the way to get that is through clarity. So if I know my goal at the front and I have all the tools and resources up front

and I have all my questions answered up front now that's not I don't say that to mean that you don't move unless you have all the information up front. That's not what that phrase is. What it is, about getting clarity so I can get the execution faster and better. So the work that I do is not training.

It's not losing. I have created trainings, and there's a place for that. There's a place for training. I don't despair training because I've created neurodiversity and the workplace trainings. There's a place for training. Well, the key factor is not it. The key factor is not training.

It's not coaching, not another initiative. And it's not just awareness work. It's performance. It's activating performance. And it's tied to how work actually gets done. So when it comes to burning people out in that process, what's often connected by a bad design? Well, there's a concept of, I'll give you a case in point.

there are some people who think differently who identifies ADHD and who identify as logistics. And for me, for example, one of my performance rates is that I absorb vast amounts of information quickly. So, for example, I memorize flag of every country in the world on site in 1130 days because I like flags and because I absorb that information. I answer Jeopardy questions more than anybody else around me that I know I read multiple books

at the same time I have four books on my depth right now I read them all at the same time and when I tell people that like oh how do you do it well that in my videos

play that speed and videos I have to turn it up just people often flow in the video for my brain to speed so I have to speed that up believer

and just for an example in terms of how rapid movement in brainwaves on the ADHD side, there are people that move very quickly in terms of their thinking from a creativity's perspective, etc., these streets and these opportunities, we're going to have to edit that part, but ask the question again. Oh, no, we don't edit. We just flow. We just flow with it. Ask the question one more time.

Sure. Yeah. So with, I get carried away too where I'll just get lost in it. But like with burning people out in the process, like what's often connected by a bad design. Yeah. Yeah. So burn up. Oh, my burnout.

Yes. So I absorb vast amounts of information very quickly. ADHD people a lot of times, they get a lot done in front of the output very short period. what happens in the organization from the design perspective is that people like me and people who have ADHD capabilities will be taking advantage of

because they'll say, oh, give it to Johnny. Johnny will get everything done on a tight timeline because Johnny has the ability to do that. Oh, give it to Grant because he can read all five of these reports and have the time that Sally can't. Oh, yes, wow, right, work that way.

and I have that capability, and Johnny has that capability, if we're only put in that position to operate on that level all the time 24-7, and we don't have the opportunity to build down, to recuperate, to rest and rejuvenate from that, it's very similar to flight or flight syndrome in the human body. If you've ever been an emergency situation, your body is fight, I'm going to fight or flight, meaning I'm going to run.

And from a psychological perspective, from an emotional perspective, from the health perspective, we all know that if the body is in that seat all the time, then you're susceptible to illness, sickness. You die sooner, quicker, mental health, all of these things, the body degrees. Same in the workplace.

Same in the workplace. So if you give someone, if you take advantage of their personal abilities, and don't give them the opportunity to either try something else to recuperate from doing that thing that they naturally can do but just because it's natural

doesn't mean it's always healthy. Because something is natural doesn't mean it's always good for you. Especially if you were doing it on repeat, on repeat, and the expectation is that that's who you are and that's who you show up. That's who you show up.

So when it's a psychological perspective that also creates burnout, out because I'm like, hey, yeah, I absorb lots of information. I also do other things. I'm so incapable of doing something else other than this one thing that you think that you're getting the maximum efficiency out of me for. And at that point, again, I feel like a fog in the wheel. The person feels like a fog because they're no longer being utilized effectively

in efficiency. They're being utilized for their productivity. and productivity leads to burnout. Effective and efficient does not lead to burn. Yeah. Wow. You hit it right on the nose.

Like, that was literally multiple lived experiences where I had to walk away from organizations what you just described. Wow. I also listened to a podcast at a 2.5 and I'm currently reading quite a few books right now.

And it's, it's just how you've just grown to live. The process is what helps you face on the next day because you feel like you fall back on preparation. And I don't feel like I can articulate my words if I don't read. I feel like I can't connect the dots and there's fog. If I don't listen to the podcast, like there's all a reason why we do it. We just don't do it because it's fun. It's connected to being at the top of our game.

and that's what we built our life around. So it makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah. You're all about the work of playing. You know, how are we designing the work? What's the operational lift? Are you, are we trying to improve stills inside something that is already broken? Because if that's the case, you're just spinning your wheels.

So these are the conversation. This is the focus that the key factor brings. And there are other layers to it. But these are the conversations that I have with leaders. I love it. As far as questions, is there any questions I haven't, I've got to ask to you. I mean, from what I wanted to talk about today, we hit it beyond what I was expecting this conversation to be.

So is there anything that you would like to bring up? I know you have your own organization, and I would love you can just share a little bit about that and how our audience can find out more about you and get connected. Thank you. Also. Again, my name is Brian Harris. I am president and founder of GTH consulting, and I am a consultant and keynote speaker on newer inclusive performance in the future of work. and I help organizations save time, deep talent, and deliver value. So if you're interested in my T-Factor, you can be in me directly on LinkedIn at Grant Harris 555, V-MET Factor, B-MET Factor, at Grand Harris 555 on LinkedIn, and I will send you a special gift. Oh, yeah, I am glad to be here with your audience.

Again, my name is Grant Harris. and thank you for the opportunity to have this discussion and congratulations to you again on your recent achievements. Thank you. Thanks for joining us on this adventure of growth and discovery. If you're ready to achieve a sustainable transformation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you've never miss an episode. And hey, if you've enjoyed the show and want to support it,

take a moment to leave a podcast review on Apple or your favorite podcast platform. Stay connected with us on social media for behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, inspiring quotes, and the latest updates. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Just search for YTS the podcast. Until next time, remember, change is constant and transformation is inevitable. Embrace the journey and keep rocking your way towards a better you. Stay bold, stay curious, and stay true to yourself. See you next time on your Transformation Station.

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