Your Transformation Station - 21. Facing a "Difficulty" To the Extreme, "How Can YOU Respond" 'Bobby Tester' w/ 'Favazza'

Episode Date: July 16, 2020

"How can you create a transformation in others if there's no transformation in yourself?" (Trigger warning for those sensitive to suicide stories). Join (Greg Favazza), podcast host and creator as he speaks with (Bobby Tester) about his "issues with suicide." --- New episodes on Mondays for free. All episodes ad-free. https://PodcastYourTransformationStation.libsyn.com/site Find us on social media (YTSthePodcast) Support the showPODCAST INFO:Podcast website: https://ytspod.comApple Podcasts: https://ytspod.com/appleSpotify: https://ytspod.com/spotifyRSS: https://ytspod.com/rssYouTube: https://ytspod.com/youtubeSUPPORT & CONNECT:- Check out the sponsors below, it's the best way to support this podcast- Outgrow: https://www.ytspod.com/outgrow- Quillbot Flow: https://ytspod.com/quilbot - LearnWorlds: https://ytspod.com/learnworlds- Facebook: https://ytspod.com/facebook- Instagram: https://ytspod.com/instagram- TikTok: https://ytspod.com/tiktok- Twitter: https://ytspod.com/x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The military, the army, whatever, you know, I was in the army, so makes these young men and women feel that they have no other option but to do this. And, you know, most of the time they just want to be listened to. They just want to feel like they're heard. But we tend to not listen to people. And, you know, how can an organization, how can a unit say, they value people when we are just consistently, like, making people feel that that's their only option.

Like, what drives a 20-year-old kid, 20 years old, to feel that he needs to end his life? What are we doing to his kids? Welcome to your transformation station. Socrates once wrote, the secret of change is to focus all of your energy. Not on fighting the old, but on building the new. It's time to rediscover your true identity and purpose on this planet. Together, we can transform our community one topic at a time. From groundbreaking performers making their elixir your dose of reality,

your transformation arc. This is your transformation station, and this is your host, Greg Favaza. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to your transformation station. This is episode 11 where Bobby Tester and myself go into a situation. We go into a deep conversation about an experience not just for people of the military that go through this experience. But anybody, and it's the experience, the thought process of wanting to take our own lives. we look at how does one come to this situation? How do we handle this situation?

And how do we help people if we are the friend of an individual who are going through this situation? It's a very relevant topic to talk about, especially for myself, because I've went through this and there's a lot that needs to be. to be said on how we can deliver this message to everybody, how to help people understand that there is always an alternative. If you have not subscribed to your transformation station, hit the subscribe button. Leave us a review. I am calling you to action to leave us a review.

Help us rise in the rankings. Leave us a review in Apple, Spotify, wherever you can. we need the reviews to rise in the rankings. You are helping us out. Let us know how we are doing. And email us at Your Transformation Podcast at gmail.com. Let us know how we're doing. All right.

Now let's get to the show. Welcome to your transformation station. I really do appreciate you taking the time for getting on the show. I remember you as an amazing leader, just knowing exactly what right is and demonstrating it properly. How did you get into this situation that you found yourself in? Well, I mean, we can start way back. I joined the Army in August 2000 at 18 years old,

and I went to, you know, basic training at AIT. I joined as an electrician, basically trained at IT, and then I went to airborne school. And my first duty station was Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And that had a very, very large impact on me. I was in 37th Engineer Battalion. And I had some leaders that literally, like, demanded excellence.

Like, things just had to be right. So I was there for three years. And then I PCS the Fork in Alaska. And I was doing electrical work. up there and it was a different army right so that's where I kind of started coming off so I went from Fort Bragg you know an airborne engineer unit to Fort Washington Alaska and it was a total culture shock like I was a young E5 hard charging kicking in doors and that kind of behavior that kind of

mindset wasn't really accepted up there my first sergeant had to pull me aside one day because I was in a guy's room and he was like, hey, we don't do that here. Okay, first sergeant, thank you. So fast forward. That was 2004. Fast forward to 2005. I get deployed to Afghanistan and I meet. We had a company commander that went over with us and he got relieved halfway through.

And then we get a new company commander guys named Kim Gage. And he is the best company commander I ever had in my entire, like 18 years of service. He, I was, like I said, so I was the E5 and I was running all the power distribution for our fob of about 300 people. So I was doing all the generators. I had three guys that worked for me. We did all the generators, all the maintenance. I did all the distribution boxes, all the panel boxes. the Halliburton guys would come out and look at us and make sure, and they're like,

oh, you guys got it, we're out of here. So I was eating lunch one day, and Kim Gage sat down next to me, and he was like, you know, Sergeant Tester, you know, you're really smart. I was like, I'm like, oh, thanks, sir, you know. I said, well, I try to be, but he's like, if you ever thought about the green to gold program? and I was like, no, sir, I don't even know what that is. And he said, oh, it's a program for young men like you to get out of the Army and get a degree and come back in as lieutenant. And I was like, well, you know, and I was like, you know, I shrugged him off.

Okay, sir, thank you. You know, I'll think about it. And so we went back to, we redeployed and like two years later and it was, June of 08 for three years since that he had told me that that had been in the back of my brain

like okay and then finally one day I had a great company commander there to the guy's name is Chris Klein he's actually now well he just finished up

battalion command of the 46th engineer battalion at Fort Polk maybe about a year ago but anyway so I was E6 at the time and my whole job was

I was the headquarters platoon sergeant, but we had like a convoy security thing for him because we had people all over the place who would drive around. So my job, aside from headquarters of platoon sergeant, was to manage his convoy security team, which was three other gun trucks and all the people when they were mine, and we dealt with that. So anyway, I had to have, because I was in E6, I couldn't sign my own ticket to get off the bob, what they called a trip ticket. E7s or above could sign them. So they gave me a brand new lieutenant, brand new,

had just gotten to the unit out of West Point in Bullock. And I remember asking him, I had a client at the time, Sir, I have to have this lieutenant to sign my trip ticket. He's like, yeah, you do. I said, what's the difference between me and her? And he's like, B, the college degree in about two grand a month.

Wow. And I was like, it's bullshit, sir. I said, bullshit. He said, yeah, it is. He said, do you want to put your packet in? I said, yes. He's like, all right, I'll help you. So that was the final kickover, right?

So then I did it and put my green to gold packet in and got accepted. I did everything in Iraq. It was very, very, like, flat. I got accepted to St. Leo University, which is a tiny university in central Florida. Went there for three years. And then I commissioned as an engineer, went to Bollick. My first duty station was Fort Richardson, Alaska, where I was a platoon for a route clear to the team when we got deployed to Afghanistan, and then I became the company XO.

Leave there. I went in instructed Bullock for a while, which is like engineer basic training, a lieutenant basic training, which actually really, really enjoyed that job. That was probably my favorite job in the Army, because I got to teach you brand new lieutenants, like things that I thought mattered. and I've had some of them contact me and be like, hey, sir, thank you. Like, that was really helpful.

So we do that, you know, and I did that job for about a year, and then I went to Fort Carson. And I went to the brigade headquarters, and that's where, you know, that was May of 16. I got to the brigade headquarters, and then I was there until April of 18. Joe, and then I became a company commander. And in May of 2019, that's when my life kind of fell apart.

Well, it didn't fall apart, but things kind of unfolded on me. And that's when I spent six days in psychiatric care based I couldn't handle the stress of what was going on at the time. And then I changed command in June of 2019. Wait, so how did you end up in? How did you end up in psychiatric care? Like, if we can go into that. Absolutely. So, you know, I was doing pretty well, and I want to preface this with this.

So, you know, like, this affects anybody, man. You know, I was doing pretty well. I was very well respected as company commander. Very well. You know, I was doing well on the OML. And for non-military people, everything in the Army is about an evaluation, everything, and it's all about numbers, right? So there were 37 other companies commanders that I was competing against for a good number on my evaluation report. And I was doing well.

And in May of 2019, you know, I've been going to counseling this whole time. went with the same counselor and he was fantastic is amazing May of 2019 we were getting a new boss a new brigade commander and we had to do some slides not a big deal I was also going through change command inventories and like they kept just changing the slides and changing them and changing them and changing them and adding to them and adding to them. And it was like a Friday, maybe it was a Thursday. It was right before Memorial Day.

I think it might have been Thursday, actually, before Memorial Day. I received an email from some folks, and it was like, hey, we've got to add all this stuff into these slides. You company commanders are going to have a long weekend. And I looked at that email. and this is the first time this ever happened in my life. It terrified me. You know, I had had suicidal thoughts or flashes. You know, I think everybody does, right?

But I'd never had, like, legitimate ideations and clans. So I looked at that email. I immediately wanted to reply, this is why people in the army killed themselves. But I didn't. And I was just like, whoa, that's kind of crazy. So I actually went home I lived on post

I just left the office I just went home That thought Was that something that's been lingering On the back burner For some time now And that was just the final straw You know

It might have been I honestly can't say I think it was You know And I've done a pretty good job Like dealing with it You know Like hey I got my kids with me

You know And my family It's always a reason That I would never do anything like that And seeing that, because it had just been like adding up and adding up and adding up and finally they were like, oh, we need to do this. You know, I'm exaggerating a bit here. You know, 100 page slide deck.

You know, I think it was actually about 20 slides per company. But that was on top of everything else we had already done. So, and then when they were just like, hey, you guys going to have a long weekend, you know, over Memorial Day. and they know what's going on. And, like, that was it. I was just like, all right, this is it. Like, this is why people kill themselves.

You know, you cannot manage, well, I'm not going to say cannot. It's difficult, very, very difficult to manage that level. Excuse me. It's difficult to manage that level of expectancy from your bosses. and still do everything you're doing. So to loop back, right, I had talked earlier about the 90% product thing. So I was doing 90%, right? And I was just sending them out.

But when you're sending out so much stuff, 90% adds up. And I won't send out a garbage product. Like, I just won't do it. If it's got my name on it, I'm going to take at least some time and put it out there, you know? So that was it. So, you know, I was like, oh. So like I said, it actually, it scared me a lot. So I just left the office.

I told my first started, I was like, hey, top, I'm out of here for a little bit. I went home, and I got a cup of coffee. And while I was sitting there drinking my coffee real quick, I started thinking about, like, where my guns were, the keys in my sock drawer. if I went up there and did this, though, it'd be very noisy, and everybody would know immediately, and I don't want to put my kids to that trauma.

Wait, so you're saying this is, you're saying you're thinking about killing yourself. Yeah, yeah, this is what I was thinking at the time, right? While I was sitting there at my house, drinking my cup of coffee, acting like nothing was going on. You know, because my wife's talking to me, I'm in the kitchen. So I didn't want to do that. So I remember I had to go, I was on all kinds of meds, man, I still am, right?

I'm on like sleeping medicine, mood stabilizers, you know, some, I'm on some serious stuff, but I was back then too. So I'd go to the hospital there on post and get my sleeping pills. And they had given me a 30-day supply. I remember walking out of the hospital. And I went and sat in my truck. And I looked at the bottle of pills in my other seat. And I thought to myself, this would do it.

And it'd be quiet. So I started driving back towards work because I needed to get back to work. And halfway there, you know, I had that thought again. And pulled over into a parking lot, some parking lot, I don't know where I was. And I just started crying, man. This wasn't like me. you know and I always had the thoughts but so I called my doc my therapist and I was like hey this is what's going on I need help what can I do and he was like well said you know the only thing we haven't done

hospitalization and I need you to go to the hospital he said they're going to admit you I'm all right doc you know I trust you I'm going to go so I did go and you know I got admitted I spent six days up on the fifth floor, Fort Carson, the psychiatric ward. And it was helpful. You know, it was helpful. And when I came out, I'm not going to say, like, I was changed, you know. It's not like a switch just flips and that stuff goes away. But I was much more aware of thinking can change all that stuff, where I am now trying to get this message and whatnot.

At that moment when you made that decision to get admitted, did you have any thoughts in your head on what might happen to your credibility in your position, but also in the people that you thought that were your friends' correction, to the people that thought you knew them as you thought you knew them, but they turned out to be somebody completely different? Oh, yeah. No, no, absolutely. So, you know, like, so the Army has a terrible, a terrible,

maybe is the right word. Because we do all of suicide training, right? But it doesn't really do anything. I remember thinking, and I know lots of people to think this way, that suicides are cowards. You know, that's the easy way out. That's a cowardly thing.

but I'll tell you that when I was in the middle of that moment I did think that I was like this doesn't happen this might sound kind of bad but this doesn't happen to officers this doesn't happen the company and commanders you know we're not the guy

to go in there I'm the guy that goes and visits people at the floor because they're in there you know I'm not the guy that goes there and that was really humbling you know and I've always read for years I've read a couple you know, I've read quite a bit about like suicide and satiation stuff because I was trying to stop it in my formation.

You know, I would talk to those guys two, three times a week about this stuff. And everything I've read is that, you know, it can happen to anybody. And here I was thinking I was Captain America or Superman, you know, that's a big red S on my chest. It never happened to me. Oh, that won't happen to me. And I'm here to tell you, you know, it can happen to you. And one of the only thing, like the only thing that saved me, man, was calling my doc because I knew I could call him. And I knew he'd pick up the phone.

Like, had I not called him? I might have drove an all-coming traffic. I don't know what I would have done, man. I'll be honest with you. You know, I had this thought that let me call somebody first. And maybe I was lucky because I had that thought. You know, I don't know what anybody else is. moments are like that.

I don't know if they'll have those kind of thoughts. I don't know if they have them. I don't know if it's a thing. I was lucky in that moment. I did have that one clean thought, like, hey, call somebody first. And I did. And it, you know, it saved my life.

So I look at the situation is I feel like in the military, it shouldn't be expected as an option to kill yourself. And we feel ashamed that these thoughts are going and are coming and arising in our head. And that makes us feel even worse that these thoughts that are coming up should not be coming up, which makes us feel like we're broken even more. Yep. And it just reinforced, it's like a downward spiral once these thoughts come. It's like it only takes one.

You listen to somebody. it could change their life. Just listen to them. And also, I want to look at about the fact it can also take one person to cause those thoughts to arise with just...

Oh, man. Yes. Yes. Just with something... It takes one errant team leader, some young E5, that doesn't even, you know, I don't know, sometimes they don't even think they're really,

you know, and they make these young people feel like this. Maybe, you know, one thing the Army doesn't do, like, we do all this leadership training, but we don't do, like, how to treat people. Empathy. Yeah. That's exactly it. We don't do empathy training. Like, and the problem is, you know, a lot of people be like, oh, this is baloney or

bullshit or whatever. No, even if you, like, I'll be frank. Even if you don't care. Even if you don't care, if you can be empathetic to a person, it makes a world a difference. You don't like that person. You can still feel empathy for it. Just the fact of being deliberate with that, even if you feel like you don't have, if you were to at least try once a day to make somebody feel better about themselves, you're at Starbucks and the person is on autopilot, just saying, thank you. Hey, you're doing a great job. Go a long way in their growth, but also in your own personal growth.

That's right. That's right. It would. And kindness is free. Yeah. And that seems to be the hardest thing for people to grasp. This is free. It doesn't take away from you at all. It doesn't take away from the person that receives it at all. It doesn't take anything. Nothing at all. Bob, I got to ask you this. When you got out of those psych ward, did any thought come through your head at the point where you feel like you are replaceable? You know, I, absolutely. I knew that if I didn't go to work the next day, somebody would be there to do my job. You know, and that leads to it.

That's a whole other realm stuff because, you know, you're going to be called at some point in your life to be something that only you can be. Like for me, for me personally, I can, I'm the only person that can be, my kid's father and my wife's husband. But I have these other jobs, right, where if I leave or if I were to pass away in my sleep, I would be replaced.

I can't be replaced as the father or husband in my family. But I could have been replaced as a company commander. So it's an interesting thing. You know, we trade money for time to allow us to do things. But if you trade too much time, you know, you don't have any to give. And when they're not, you know, nobody is ever, and I'm not saying it to dissuade any of the listeners if they're in the military from working hard, right? But, you know, nobody, the Army was never going to call down to me and say, hey, you know what, buddy, you're doing a great job. We appreciate it.

you know they weren't going to call my desk phone and tell me that but here I am like brined and I'm talking about like getting after right like 12 14 16 hour days you know for the army the army like they're not going to call me and tell me I did a good job like I'm not going to say they don't care but maybe they're indifferent to the level of work I put in you know there's a set level of work that's required or expected anything other than that, you know, it's good, but you've got to negotiate that with yourself, like at what cost. You know, I value family time over anything else.

So when I was working, you know, until 7, 8 o'clock at night some nights, you know, I'd leave in the morning at 5. get to work. And then I go home. I'd go home at lunch. I would always go home at lunch if I could. I'm getting home to 7 o'clock. And I'm working 13, 14 hours.

You know, it gets kind of old. You hold this professional status. Do you feel like you were not the person you thought you were? And how did you come about carrying yourself and moving forward after that situation? Well, you know, I learned. I learned real quick that I wasn't, you know, I had always thought that would never happen. So I learned real quick that I was just like anybody else, and I was susceptible to these types of thoughts just like anybody else.

When I got out, it made me realize real quick a few things that matter, and we all hold our own, you know, values of what matter to you. But ultimately, the only thing that matter is making sure that, like, you're okay and that you're alive so you can participate in life. Whether you know you're a single guy or you're married, you've got to be alive to be there. Extraneous stuff matters as much as you think it does. You know, at the time, and it seems silly, right?

But at the time, the thing that pushed me over the edge when it was all said and done and I got out and I was like thinking about it, looking back, and I still look back on it. you know, I'm just like, man, you know, that, in the grand scheme of things, that didn't really matter. So I go through, I work with my therapist on cognitive behavior therapy, and one thing we do is, because I tend to catastrophize just like you, or everything's terrible, right? But one thing we do is you think or you write it down, I'll just think about it in the moment. on a scale of zero to 100 with 100 being the worst thing

you could ever happen to you so like for me personally that would be like one of my my wife or my children dying right that'd be the worst thing that could happen to me that's 100 and then you take whatever deal you're dealing with whatever issue

whatever thing and you place it on there in reality objectively right so like for example when I was changing command I thought the end of the world was going to be if I had to pay money. I didn't want to pay any money. Now, for the non-military listeners,

at the end of my old job, they look at all the equipment and they tallied up and they have to make sure that everything's there. And if something's missing, I have to pay for it. So I didn't want to pay any money, though. It's usually 90% of the population that gets out. That's the end of pain. Oh, yeah, right?

But I didn't want to pay anything, you know? So I thought that was the worst thing. But when I put that against like somebody in my family dying on a scale of zero to 100, really? That was like maybe a 50. You know, that's not going to be the worst thing that can happen to me. I'll just pay the money and whatever, you know? Or like. So how about this?

By the standards you used to judge yourself before you were admitted to now, what changed? You know, I used to, I was trying real hard before all this happened. I was trying real hard to put my family first. I tried very, it wasn't always easy. But now I can do it with no problem. Another thing it changed was, you know, I used to get wound up about these little things that would happen at work, like I'd lose my mind.

and after I came out, like after I got out, none of it, yeah, it's inconvenient, right? Like, like a guy, just for example, somebody would, you know, pop out on a drug test. Well, unfortunately, like, regardless of what we say, that reflects on a company commander, right? And it does, at least from the leadership side. So I would always, I'd get wound up, why this guy, you know, wow, man. And then looking at it from the back side, like, doesn't really matter, you know. And there was a lot of things like that, actually.

And once you kind of disassociate from those things that are, you know, making you go into this all the time, but once you disassociate from those and look back and look at them and you can see them through like, it's kind of like lions at a zoo, man, these things would eat you, you know, but then you get away from them, you put them behind glass, and you look at them, you're like, that's it, really? Like, that's what was doing this to me? And you just realize that they don't really matter.

They're not that important. The change that we had to go through to be from our normal selves to this person, we're supposed to go into a battlefield if we have to, on just a snap response. And it's that mental shift. that the gentic shift is what it's called, where your mind just automatically responds to this environment accordingly. And you finally can look at it from an outside perspective and see that you are just a blind obedience. What you're saying, right?

But I talked about this with my therapist too, and he helped me understand this. Because I was like, you know, when I was in command, the one thing I cared about more than anything else was my 96, piece of American treasure that's the young men and women that were below me that I was in charge of and I worried about them day and night but I was talking to my doc and I was talking about this you know like how do we make people willing to kill like this and he was like well you know it starts it all starts in indoctrination you know you go through nine weeks of basic training you wear a uniform so there's no individuality you know in your your crop to do these things but that's the way it has to be you know you can't come like in all the services you know there's a mission to do and that's the way it has to be

and unfortunately that mindset is incredibly difficult to get out of you know once you've left military service branch in specific you know you nobody gets out of the military and loses every

things that they learn. Like, everybody still has some things that they can't get around. Like, I still, I still write my date military style, right? And I'm sure everybody else will do that too. But, you know, it's just stupid things like that, right? You got the 24-hour clock going. Yeah, well, no, no, no. I've tried to get away from that.

But, you know, we indoctrinate these young men and women. to do what they have to do without deliberate thought. And you know, and you know this as interim, that's a battle drill. An immediate response to an outward like stimulus that requires no action from the leader. Or minimal action. You know, I mean, we just, we make people like this, and they do their four, six, eight years, you know, and then they get out, or the sand.

You know, they do 20 years and they retire. And everybody has it, man. It's difficult to get out of that mindset. You know, I would see, like, when I was going to college, I tried very hard. I had to do, that's only one day a week and then PT and other stuff. But I tried very hard to, like, integrate into college and not be like, hey, I'm in the Army. You know, listen to me, you know, which happened. people do it all the time, man.

And that's fine if that's what you want to do, but I didn't want to do that. But I would see people that would do it, you know, like all the time. And they come into the classes out of then, and they were like, I was a Marine, you know, why? And it's just like, okay, man, like, we're not there anymore. I had a buddy in college, man. He was a Marine. And he would get so upset by these college kids. I tell him like, dude, it's a 19-year-old kid, man.

What are you getting upset about? Like, they're not Marines. They're not, you know. They just left the house. They don't even know how to wash clothes, I bet. Like, you can't, you got to choose. And you know what? This is one thing I did learn after my time in the psych ward was you have to choose what you get angry about.

Where do you spend your anger? Because it's currency, man. This is your transformation station with your host, Greg Favaza. So, I mean, Greg, you know, I had a boss tell me one time, and I've gone by this for my whole life. So people will often say that they don't have, they don't have any fucks to give. But my boss would say, no, no, no, you've probably got about three. You get about three, and you've got to figure out where to spend them. So I used to always tell my first start, she'd get wound up.

I'd be like, hey, I'm not giving one of my three fucks today. Not about this. No, no, no. It's not worth it. And I'm like, your upsetness, your, that's not the right word, but, you know, your emotional state is currency. You've only got so much. It's just like Malcolm Gladwell talks about you can only make so many decisions in a day.

I'm a firm believer And I don't know if this is scientific base But you've only got So much emotion To put out And whether that be anger Or joy or happiness Or indifference

You know You gotta figure out where you want to spend it man And is getting upset over This Where you want to spend it You know It can be anything If you drive it down the road

You get a flat tire Right Is this where you want to spend Your emotion you know, you want to get super upset about this and, you know, this is the end of the world, or is this just a mild inconvenience, you know, in what you got going? Definitely having a positive outlook on life and maintaining that positive outlook when things do go bad and not in your favor.

It sounds like it's raining over there when things do not. But let's go back. definitely fell off the beaten path here a little bit. For those that are thinking about taking their life, what about those who are the friend of that individual? How can we inform them to recognize that something's happening and what can they do about it in their own power? So the first thing I would tell you is that if somebody called you out of the blue,

pick up the phone. If you get a call from somebody and you don't, like, and it's someone you haven't talked to in a while, or it is someone you've talked to. And I know that in the age of text and Snapchat and TikTok, we don't really like to talk on the phone so much.

We'd rather text. I'd rather text somebody because it's less, it's more convenient because I don't have to, like, stop what I'm doing in my family, right? But I tell you right now, if somebody calls me on the phone,

I'm picking up. Because you don't know. That could be the moment for that person. So the worst thing that could happen, if you pick up the phone, like, the worst thing it can happen would be they are there, you know, whatever they're going to do, and they're having that thought, right? And they just need someone to talk to. And, you know, the best thing that could happen really would be they just want to talk to you. That might be mildly inconvenient because you picked up the phone and now you've got to spend 30 minutes on the phone with somebody. but that's way better than not picking up the phone

and then finding out three days later that they took their life. So if you get that call, most people just want somebody to listen to them. Don't try to explain to them that you've been in the same situation, right? You know, we tend to do that, right? So we, as human, tend to do that to relate to the person, but as you're that person,

it really feels like they're just minimizing your issues. So, you know, like if you get the call, don't go. You know, my uncle one time thought about,

you know, taking his life too, and this is what we did. Just listen to the person, offer advice, you know, if they ask for it, help them out, be supportive,

you know, try to steer them toward any kind of resources that might be available. You know, Army One source has resources. Local

911 has resources. Local hospitals will help you. You know, they're out there. People just have to use them. You know, or if that person doesn't want to do that, maybe develop some type of buddy check-in.

You can even do it by text. Like, hey, man, text me in 12 hours. And if you don't get a text from, call them. You know? But you've got to keep it up, at least for a little while until you can, like, talk to them and see them better, maybe encourage them to go do something, you know. But you've got to pick up the phone.

So I talked earlier about making the list of people you can call. Well, when you're making that list and you put these people down, you need to call them and this is going to be a very uncomfortable talk but you got to have it you need to call them and be like hey

I put you down on my list as someone I could call if I ever think about committing suicide and that's going to be a difficult talk right but you got to have it like call them and tell them

and for people that don't even think it like for people that aren't even having these thoughts right This is all just preventive, but it could save your life one day, you know. So if you get a call to somebody or if somebody comes to your house, you know, the main thing you can do, the main thing you can do is just listen to them and be supportive. And don't try to minimize their thoughts, all right? Don't play it off, take it seriously and listen and just be supportive to them and help them through the situation they're going through because you don't know what's going on. I would tell my guys at work, tell my company, every time I saw them in formation,

people have two faces. They have a work face and they have a home face. The work face is usually way different than the home face because you don't know what's going on at home. We don't know what's going on. And normally we don't learn what's going on until it's too late and there's nothing we can do about it. That's what your book is all about.

That's right. That's right. Have a plan because we don't talk. about it you know we say oh call somebody or whatever but it's kind of lip service if you were to physically write down three to four people and their phone numbers like write it down on a piece of paper not keep it in your phone if you can put them in your phone that's great but you need to physically write down three to four people and you can put them in an order of preference or you know whatever or just

random alphabetical order but write them out write their phone number and then you need to write on that paper like I will call these people and you can fold that paper up that you can put it in your pocket you can put it in your wallet you can put it in a drawer you could throw it away if you really wanted to but I really feel that the act of doing that you know that's part of the plan that act of making a plan at least putting that those words and thoughts on the paper will make you stop for a moment and think through it you know no great military general has ever won a battle without a plan. Nothing is built without a plan. You know, SpaceX's rockets that are flying right now, I'll go back to Elon Musk,

they've got blueprints. They're built by the plan. They don't deviate from them. So when you get in a moment like that, if you've got your written down plan, hopefully, you know, it'll help you and you won't deviate from it. I mean, you can include other things on there too, like places you could go, things you could do. If you get the feeling like that, you know, play with your kids or take a walk outside or go for a run.

And I know in the heat of the moment, that's like the last thing you're going to want to do. But maybe if you think about it and go out there and do these things that at least help you get some clarity, you know, in the middle of your terrible, terrible time. That's a very dark time to be in, you know. There has to be, you must have came in contact with a couple people where, you know, they actually wanted to help you and see how you're doing versus other people that would generally ask to see how you're doing to make conversation or to get information to get,

oh, let me figure out what he was doing in there because I know him get like the inside scoop. Yeah, yep. So when I got out, I left four, across the October of 2019. And then my old first sergeant, I talk to her about once every two weeks, just to talk, check on each other. So she's one of the people that truly cares, like, what's going on with me and my family. I've got one or two other friends that will call us, and they truly do care.

You know, I haven't really had anybody else call me or text me. They would go to my old first sergeant, and they would ask her, like, hey, how's he doing? and she would tell them every time you've got his phone number, call them. It's not my place to tell his business. And I've had one of my old friends, well, I mean, not that old, but I've had one of the friends I made there at Fort Carson, a fellow company commander, check up on me one time. And now on that note, I haven't reached out to any of those guys either. you know and I think there's a misconception though that like once you get out everything's okay

so like I know I used to think this right when somebody got out I'd be like oh they're living the life like peaches and cream over there you know and then you don't want to bother them kind of you don't want to bother them because you know they're having a great life but in reality sometimes that's true but sometimes it's the complete opposite and you get you know you come out of your military service and you realize nobody cares you know you know you're no longer you know your military service is over right i can't put my uniform on and go to the local supermarket and have people you know recognize me or i can't put you know i can't put my uniform on and go

and, you know, to the to the, like, the Air Force base down the road for me and be, you know, like, get the same kind of recognition I did. Because, and that's part of it, right? We all, we do crave

the respect we get in the Army and the military hierarchical, high hierarchy. You know, that system, the rank system is there for a reason. You know, And you get used to that, right? So, like, you get used to being treated a certain way,

if we're being honest. And then when you get out, you know, it doesn't matter. Nobody cares. Like, nobody looks at my, you know, nobody's going to check your retired ID card, be like, oh, hey, sir, how are you doing, you know? It doesn't matter. And that's a very, very, very, very. difficult transition to make because for your whole military, you know, like you're this.

You've got the uniform. Like you're this. You're in it. You're doing it. Then we get out, you're not doing it anymore. Bob Tester. Okay. My dad told me that that was the first thing he told me as far as when I first left for basic

training. He told me, don't be a hero. 20 years from now, nobody's not always going to give a shit. and I'm like, are you kidding me? No, no, I didn't understand that at the time. I'm like, that just seems like a very pogue response. Let me correct that. That just seems like a pessimistic response or something.

And after getting out and experiencing that, it makes so much sense. It's like nobody, they don't really care. And I'm okay with that because, it's all based off that mindset that we have developed to be who we are in that system of the military. And it is difficult. It's really interesting because I talked with Son Lopez. It's an episode one, and he's incorporating an amazing system. And it's similar to what you're saying as far as having a plan, forcing the plan, as far as,

helping the soldiers get on, well, veterans get on their feet, find a place to live, making sure they have everything they need, finding a job, and then having an accountability, buddy, to ensure that they are doing the job properly, learning about the job. It goes into great details with veterans, I believe you two can really hit it off and see what you guys can do. That'd be good.

You know, the other thing is this, when you get out, so, you know, when you're in the military, branch in specific, there's always a mission, there's always a thing. You're like always working towards a thing, right? Whatever that is. And then once that's over, it's the next thing, whether that's, you know, raiding an airfield or building an tank ditch or getting a convoy of, you know, supplies somewhere or, you know, whatever it is. But there's only a thing. And then you get done with that, and there's another thing. but when you get out

there's no more thing and nobody's telling you hey go do this now you're on your own volition right so if you don't like your situation and I am guilty of this man when I was in the army

if the army sent me somewhere I didn't want to go I would shake my fist oh dang army you know I don't want to be here but now I've moved somewhere I don't really want to be but I can't blame the army

you know, it's just me. So the thing is this, though, there's a huge difference here between when you're in the Army and when you're out is that if you don't like something, you can change it. You can just change it. Right?

And it might not be that easy. It's just change it. But you do have the option. You have the opportunity to do what you would like to do. You know, the problem is, though, there is no thing, there's no external

force telling you what you have to do. And then while we all say we didn't like that, secretly I firmly believe that we all crave that because it's easy. It's easy. The army says do this and I just go do it. It's easy, right?

I don't have to command my own ship, if you will. So when we get out, you've got to find a purpose. Like if you can find a purpose, Whatever that is, whatever you want to do, if you want to go to school and learn to bake,

do you want to be an auto mechanic, or if you want to go work at a veteran, you know, nonprofit shelter, you just got to find something to put your energy in, or else you're not going to do anything, you know. People, I'm guilty of it. You know, it's taking me dang near 10 months to get my act together where, you know, I was just not doing anything.

Like, I was like, oh, I deserve this, you know. And I wanted to take like three or four months off. Well, that turned into six and then, well, COVID-19 hit. Here we are. But, you know, regardless, you've got to find something to put your time into, whether it be a hobby or a job or, you know, something. Because if you don't, you have all this energy, you have all this drive that you have for years and there's nowhere to place it and it's going to be misplaced and for some people

it goes terribly they end up as alcoholics they end up into illicit drugs you know and we don't want that that stuff tends to tend to not always lead to um difficult things for people you know whether that be money wise family wise emotionally and sometimes it leads down the rabbit hole and these folks end up taking their own lives. You know, got to find a purpose. And, you know, you've got to find something to do. I got some final questions to ask you. What life-altering things should every human ideally get to experience at least once in their lives?

Personally, for me, I think everybody should jump out of an airplane once. I spent a good portion of my life jumping out of airplanes for the Army. It's really something. You know, I tell you don't look at things the same anymore. kind of changes the way you look at things. When you, I'm not going to say that you take your life in your own hand, but when you tempt fate, if you will,

you know, beyond what a lot of folks do, it kind of changes the way you look at things. That's interesting, because my philosophy is to embrace my authentic self and to be vulnerable in every situation. So by jumping out of the airplane, and you are, I mean, pretty much trust in your life to a shoot. Hopefully that was put together, right?

That's right. That's right. That's very interesting. What is the most important goal everyone should have or at least strive for? I personally believe that every person should get some kind of post-secondary education after high school, whether that be like a Votech or a technical school or, you know, Yotech, or you need to have some kind of additional education in order to get a decent job, which will then in turn allow you to provide for not only yourself,

but your family eventually. What is your definition of success, and how do you think the best way, not just for you, but for those that are listening, the best way for them and yourself to attain it. Okay. So Greg, I'm a firm believer that we all define our... It's not a mark on the wall that can just be arbitrarily placed for everybody.

Okay? We all define our own. Somebody told me that one time and it had stuck with me because, you know, if you... You know, everybody has dreams when they're young. people, young men and women coming up, and if you don't reach those, does that mean that you weren't a success? Not necessarily. If you wanted to be a veterinarian, okay, but your bachelor's degree, and then, you know, you met somebody and you started a family and you never made it back to vet school, but you've got a small, you know, a nice little family, and you've got a good job,

and you're taking care of your kids and your wife or your husband, you know, if you're the woman, is that success? To me, that's success. You know, just because you didn't become a vet, does that mean you're not successful? I don't think so. It just means you diverted your definition of success, you know. If you always wanted a car, you know, for some people, this is a big deal. You know, if you always wanted a certain car when you're growing up and then you get it, you know, when you're like 35, that's success. I don't think we can just place that definition wherever. I think it's up to each person.

But for me, personally, success is taking care of my family effectively. It's the most important thing to me, and that's how I think I'm successful for trying to be a good dad and a good husband inside my family. I like that. I have one last question and this one has been like inside me for a long time to actually ask a military officer and a military officer who has experienced both sides of the fence

as far as enlisted and commission. Yes. There we go. I got it. Shaking off the cobweeds. But is intelligence or wisdom which is more useful? Hmm. Well, you know, I think that for me it would be wisdom

Because I think that everybody has an innate level of intelligence And that can be fostered rather quickly But wisdom doesn't come quickly if that makes sense You know, that's formed over years of your life And experiences and just a general, you can have a calm, like, demeanor and have some wisdom, too. But if you haven't had experiences to see how things play out and participated in other activities, you know, you won't have a level of wisdom.

It's very difficult. I don't know that you can grow wisdom as quickly as you can grow intelligent. Anybody can become intelligent, I think. It just takes a little bit of time. No, that makes a lot of sense as far as when I became a sergeant. I never thought I was even capable of handling that position. But in time, I realized it was a developmental role. And I became the person that I wanted to be by just moving in the standard that I thought I seen a sergeant uphold themselves to.

and the wisdom is the trial and air that we are able to incorporate in our thought process when we experience a similar situation through pattern recognition. I completely agree. That's an amazing. I literally got lost. Like I just kept diving. I kept going deeper and deeper. It's like I'm like talking myself and like, it's like, yes, Greg, continue.

What are you saying now? Like I'm not going to lie. I started having a conversation with myself in my own. But Bobby, I really do appreciate you come on the show. Is there anything I didn't get to actually ask you that you want to address? The last thing I'd like to say in listeners, Greg, is like, no matter what, you matter to somebody. Somebody cares about you. So if you ever get in a situation where you don't think anybody cares, you're thinking about, you know, maybe taking your own life,

somebody cares about you all right I promise you someone cares now how can our listeners get in touch with you so my email address is robert dot tester the numeral one so robert dot sister one at gmail.com I'm on LinkedIn at Robert tester pm. so you guys can hit me on there I'm gonna I'm still working on my book once we get it finished. I'll hopefully get a website up to running and then you can find me on there. I'm also on social media, Instagram, and Facebook if you guys wanted to add me as well. Thank you, Bobby. I really do appreciate your time again. You're doing great things, buddy. Greg, thank you for having me.

You've been listening to Your Transformation Station, rediscovering your true identity and purpose on this planet. We hope you enjoyed the show, and we hope you've gotten some useful and practical information. Join us weekly on Monday for the YTS Challenge and bi-weekly on Wednesday for the exclusive interviews at 8 p.m. Central Time. In the meantime, connect with us on Facebook and Instagram at YTS, the podcast. We'll be back soon. Until then, this is your transformation station, signing off. LifeLock, how can I help? The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't.

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