Your Transformation Station - 75. How to Rebuild "YOUR Voice" 'Asha Tarry' w/ Favazza

Episode Date: December 20, 2021

Expert "psychotherapist" and coach of "corporate leadership", (Asha Tarry). Asha and Greg are able to get to the depth of "self-transformation" from a mental health and psychotherapy "perspective". Through the episode, personal stories are shared, as well as how the newest leadership changes are affecting millennial generations and the work environment as a whole. Support the showPODCAST INFO:Podcast website: https://ytspod.comApple Podcasts: https://ytspod.com/appleSpotify: https://ytspod.com/spotifyRSS: https://ytspod.com/rssYouTube: https://ytspod.com/youtubeSUPPORT & CONNECT:- Check out the sponsors below, it's the best way to support this podcast- Outgrow: https://www.ytspod.com/outgrow- Quillbot Flow: https://ytspod.com/quilbot - LearnWorlds: https://ytspod.com/learnworlds- Facebook: https://ytspod.com/facebook- Instagram: https://ytspod.com/instagram- TikTok: https://ytspod.com/tiktok- Twitter: https://ytspod.com/x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

everything I just explained to you, you can't even comprehend, but it makes sense to me. And you should acknowledge it, but they wouldn't. It's just, it was a bunch of nonsense and a waste of time. But I feel like I was able to get those emotions out and express it. If they don't take it, I mean, fuck them. Yeah. It's for you, really. Greg, your healing is always for you.

It's not for the other person. Part of becoming more emotionally intelligent and compassion towards yourself is accepting that harsh reality that in changing yourself, other people will not be able to accept that you're changing. And they won't remember what you remember. They won't remember it the way you remember it. They won't remember aspects that come back to you in segments over your lifetime. and they may not also take accountability for causing harm to you. How can you create a transformation in others if there's no transformation in yourself? Join your host, Greg Favaza, as your voice on the hard truths of leadership,

your transformation station connecting clarity to the cutting edge of leadership. As millennials, we can establish. change, not only ourselves, but through organizational change, bringing transparency that goes beyond the organization and reflects back into ourselves. Extracting, actionable advice, and alternative perspectives that will take you outside of yourself. Ashtary, welcome to your transformation station. Thanks so much for letting me be here with you. Yes, so I'm trying to get caught up here. You have an interesting background that fits our show. We like to put in, we go into organizational leadership and understanding the culture within an organization and how people can improve the culture,

how people can improve leadership and how can they improve themselves. Now, this time in the error that we are in, the millennial population occupies the majority of today's population. But they also occupy management positions within organizations. Now, you've written a book about the millennial population. Can you give us a little bit of information about that? Yeah, absolutely. So I'm actually a psychotherapist in New York and a majority of my clients are millennials. I wrote this book with millennials in mind because I'm on the cost of millennial in the generation excerpt. And I founded my work and mentoring of millennials. There was a lot of things that were really awe-inspiring,

but there were a lot of things that I found missing from sort of like the personal cultivation of being an adult. And this book was really about helping millennials to cultivate character, integrity, mindful practices, to mitigate anxiety, and being more present to building relationships that are mutually beneficial. Beautiful.

That literally is right up my alley. Now, when you say present and mitigating previous things, I'm kind of making some assertions here, are we looking at their social upbringing and trauma that's possibly related to that? So, yeah, 100% of the clientele that I work with are people who have experienced some form of trauma, whether it's developmental trauma in their childhood that they experienced or complex trauma, which is prolonged or a series of traumatic events that change the course of maybe the way that they function in life. And so a lot of people who show up in my private practice or in my coaching work show up with either

subsequent depression symptoms or anxiety symptoms or a combination of both because of trauma. Wow. Okay. So this is interesting. I have a boatload of fucking trauma that I have. have dealt with. But it still doesn't go away. I feel like it's something that you have to look at it from a neutral perspective, but learn how to live with it and trauma that's associated with family members. I just keep them at a far distance because that generation does not

understand the implications that they caused and me trying to rebuild those relationships, there's no point. There's really no point because they don't understand what they do. And then you're looking at it from a younger version of yourself's perspective when you've gone back, you've done the work. And it's just there's no point to try to rebuild those relationships. Yeah, I agree. I agree to the extent that what I share with my clients is when you start your journey through healing and it's an ongoing process, most times there's a transformation that happens within yourself that does not occur concurrently with the people that you want to help transform with you.

So we have to, in order for our healing to take place, we have to let go of the expectation. that other people should change because we change, that other people should expect that now that we have boundaries, they're going to respect our boundaries. And that doesn't often happen. So we either have to practice our boundaries elsewhere with people who are in this similar healing state of mind that we're in or develop new relationships.

Or as you've said, let certain relationships go, which I find particularly with my bi-apoc, like black indigenous people of color clients who are millennials, That's some of the toughest work that I've seen because of these cultural conditions where you don't stop speaking to your mom or you don't stop speaking to your grandparents or you don't not visit for holidays. And because some of those people have also been traumatized by their elders, there's this conflict between culture and then self-actualization that we have to work through. to help people to re conceptualize living in a life that can profoundly look different than what you imagine, but you can tolerate the difference and you can allow yourself to be okay with the difference and what is now versus what was in the past and be able to be okay with saying,

I'm not going there. I'm not visiting. I'm not engaging with you trying to change. change my boundaries that fit your comfort level. And that work is slow and progressive. Yes. I mean, for me, I can think the military, because I was conditioned to be distant with my family members for about,

excuse me, for about five and a half years. And then at that point, when I wanted to go home or to travel, I chose to travel because I still had that inside me. And I thought it was just the place that I was living when these feelings would come up and then I would relocate and just go to a different place and a different place. And I still felt the same. And what worked for me, it might

work for others or might not. But I went back home and I told everybody, everything, this happened. You were a shitty parent. You were a shitty sibling. I want you to understand how I feel. And they couldn't. Because if I brought something up that was relevant, they would look at me like, look, what do you know? You're the youngest of seven. You don't know anything, Greg. I'm like, okay. Everything I just explained to you, you can't even comprehend, but it makes sense to me, and you should acknowledge it, but they wouldn't. They wouldn't. It's just, it was a bunch of nonsense and a waste of time, but I feel like I was able to get those emotions out and express it. If they don't take it, I mean, fuck them. So. Yeah. It's for you, really, Greg. You're here.

healing is always for you. It's not for the other person. Part of becoming more emotionally intelligent and compassion towards yourself is accepting that harsh reality, that in changing yourself, other people will not be able to accept that you're changing. And they won't remember what you remember. They won't remember it the way you remember it. They won't remember aspects that come back to you in segments over your lifetime, and they may not also take accountability for causing harm to you. And when that happens, especially from people who were positioned to take care of you and be responsible for you in your childhood, it's a hard pill to swallow. It's a harsh reality to wake up to, but your journey and your healing is always about you.

I really like that. And I want to try to integrate questions that relate with, with organizational leadership as we continue to talk, if that's okay with you. Absolutely. So when you said, I remember these things and they may not remember. Now, if I were to look at it through the eyes of organizational leadership in charge of a team, how they treat their subordinates, their team members below them, they will remember that, but the individual in charge may not remember. So what is some good information that somebody that's in charge can tread lightly and kind of keep a balance to maintain a healthy relationship between employee and vice versa?

Step one is acknowledging the other person's experience with you. you don't have to agree in leadership with the people that you manage or supervise as to how they experience you. But acknowledging it is a form of respect. And I don't think people should necessarily tread lightly. I think that's already occurred and that's made employees feel very distant from management and feel unseen and unrecognized. And that kind of invisibility creates mistrust in organizations and leads people to not feel belonging in the organizations they work for and invest so much of their time and too. So I think people really need to practice grounding in, one, what I mentioned first, which is

acknowledging the other person's experience of you. And two, work with the other person with some type of orientation around how do we resolve this together. What are for the employee your personal and professional milestones that you look to reach within three to six to nine months in this organization? And how can I support you in that? Is it you need one-to-one mentorship? You need someone to eventually sponsor you in a year so that you could grow yourself professionally and move to a different position. Do you need to cultivate a specific skill that's going to help you to lead teams or be supportive in the management of other teams? in the future so we could have a cultivation of rising stars.

So that has to be done in partnership. And that will take time away from leadership, doing the job that they used to do in a certain way and actually add more time to their schedule. But the investment is going to produce employees that feel satisfied at work, energized around their work, confident at work, and feel, again, as if they belong to the place that they work for. So that now you're working in unison with people who want what the mission of the organization says that it does. And then people feel like, oh, yeah, I'm really a part of this

organization. I really have something to contribute. And then my participation is recognized. Wow. Okay. Now, that is, that is beautiful. That is very well. That flowed very nicely. Now, when you mentioned tread, when I mentioned, then you commented back, treading lightly is not a good thing. That was kind of a test for me to you to see what you would say with that. I definitely agree they shouldn't i feel like there needs there's a new standard that's being put into play right now and that is authentic leadership and that should be viewed as by embracing our vulnerabilities as our authentic selves and within that between employee and follower or subordinate or leader and subordinate, there should be a psychological safe place where the subordinates can speak freely,

can say what they want to say because everybody's position is valued. When a leader is in charge, yes, they are in charge of their subordinates, but that's why they work there. So when the lower enlisted or the follower is offering advice that would make the system better that's where the leader needs to shut his mouth and actually listen. So with this new form of leadership, have you came across that in your work as far as people embracing their vulnerabilities as their authentic selves?

It's happening really slowly, Greg. So what I see in some of my corporate wellness work is I see the desire from some leaders wanting there to be a cultural shift in the organizations where employees really do feel as if they're a part of something that's growing. And that's very exciting. But I also see at the same time from the employees who I work with that there's a gap that's hard to chip at because of the climate that we're living in where everyone's not in office yet. And not being in office sometimes can also make it more challenging to get to know people because you don't see them passing in the hallway or in the cafeteria or at the coffee station. But again, I think there's a desire, but the desire hasn't grown exponentially because there's all these other things we're dealing with in terms of burnout, people's family life schedule, the changes with we're going back to the office, we're not going back to the office.

So I think it's happening, but it's happening slowly. And one of the ways that I coach corporate through this is really being patient with this is going to be a slow process. We're dismantling systems that have been in place for most people's careers. So we have to be a little bit more tolerant of how slow it may seem to occur, but also be hopeful about it. I think we often forget how important hope is when we're changing systems because people want to see things happen. quickly. Yes. Yes. We're all, I mean, for me, I mean, I'm driven off of results. That's all I want is going to crack the whip and just be like, hey, hurry the fuck up. But I know that mentality does not work anymore. And that's why we need to get these old bucks out of the office and get the new generation in there to start running things. Because I feel like there will be more communication involved. People will understand the bigger picture, which will motivate them to, impact a cause and that will establish a cultural organizational connectivity. And with that, what is some good advice for leadership that is utilizing virtual meetings and that was

working with people that are in different nations? Cross-culture communication. Do you have any advice for them? I guess the one thing that comes to mind first is one thing you said a moment ago that I want to just backtrack to you just briefly is there's value in seasoned professionals, but also there's value in assessing the willingness of those seasoned professionals to change the shift of the culture in work spaces. And so I wouldn't say eliminate all season professionals from these working places, but I would say keep people on board who not only verbalize their investment in interest and change, but can produce change, can prove that they're willing to change. It has to be some evidence of that.

So that might also mean outside consultants coming in and cultivating a new style of leadership and working. and working and coaching those particular leaders through the change agent models that we know exist that have been effective in other places. So to do that means that those folks are going to then be assessed for their progress. This is now looking at employees, frontline staff are not the only ones who we're going to see as being on a performance employee plan, but leadership is also going to be on a performance employee plan. So I think that's one thing to consider.

But back to your most recent question, I don't know if I have the answer to that, to be honest. I think that we are moving rapidly into what other countries have already been doing, which is working remotely from anywhere in the world. The U.S. is oftentimes very slow to adapt to what people have been doing everywhere else in Europe and Asia. So I think what might have to occur with that, too, is the integration of more soft. skills development. When I was in corporate, as an employee, we had these mandatory courses we had to take every quarter, sexual harassment courses and data protection courses. And so now what I think is going to matter is people also having to take soft skills courses.

Like how do you identify microaggression in the office place? How do you help people to feel more belonging in work spaces where there are othered. How do you help to create community amongst people that might have differences in language or culture or gender identity and expression? I think there's so many things that now we actually need to school people in and make it a part of the development of the entire culture of the workspace that will potentially help people to start unlearning some old patterns of leadership management and styles of management versus the new wave of people being more emotionally intelligent. Beautiful. Wow. Yes. No, I definitely did those courses when I worked in the corporate

level within the military organization, the brigade staff, similar, did very similar things. And we had to do a lot of redundant courses that was like, okay, yes, we know we had to, maintain security over this stuff. We can't share it with the public got it. I just hope that we transfer into something that really will help the organization connect and see if there's problems. Like I want the organization to have a tight bond with everybody that is inside the parameter of that organization.

And for that to happen, the higher ups need to communicate. They need to really help them understand why they are, why the employees are coming there every day. It's not just to make a paycheck or to support their family, but they are contributing to some sort of cause that is much bigger than themselves. And with cross-cultural communication, I feel like that's very beneficial if corporate leaders really get a hold of that, because that's how. they're going to expand. That's how they're going to make a bigger change and grab the much larger target audience that's beyond the region. I agree with you. I see workplace now as an

extension of what people may have received when they were in college. Because when I graduated at high school. It was like I went from this small community of like-minded people to this huge pool of people that came from everywhere in the world that were very different from me, had different experiences. And I was also exposed to a lot of other types of activities that cultivated me as a person. So I wasn't only going to school and taking courses to cultivate my professional development, but my personal development too. And I think what's happened is, especially for millennials, going from college into the workforce is a little shocking at times because I find, especially with the millennials I work with, that relationships are really important to them. But if you're going into a space where the climate is cold and people go to work just for work and they clock out exactly at the end of the day and they don't.

don't communicate on Slack with you. They don't try to get to know you. They're not interested in what you did in on the weekends. They're not interested or invested in what you're learning about or reading outside of work. They don't really feel, again, like they're a part of something. So it kind of is off-putting for people who either are already awkward or have expected to continue that stream of consciousness, like, oh, I'm going from a friend-oriented space. with college to a professional working space, but I also want to develop friendships there.

And when you're met with maybe some distant or coldness, some distance or coldness at the office, that's oftentimes what people end up in therapy for it because they don't feel seen by their bosses. They don't feel liked by their peers. They don't feel like they're a part of a group. They don't feel like they're making impact at work. And it's challenging because I can't fix that problem for them in their individual working relationships at work.

But what I can do is help them to reframe how they go to work, what they expect from work. So in essence, what I'm saying now is I think there is conflation of both the old and the new styles, which we're talking about, of what people want when they go to work and what the climate is changing. into, which is providing a space where people feel psychologically safe and they receive more than just the paycheck. But they also build relationships that last outside of work because what we now see is there's a boomerang effect of companies are now looking back to professionals that left organizations in 2021 to reclaim talent because there's a shortage of workers. And so who are you going to look for first. The people who probably had really great personalities that could adapt to change

that were eager to come to work that produced results didn't give the boss too much of a headache in terms of like calling out of work or being absent or not being a team player. And so I think we can bridge the older than new in that way by bringing a little bit of both what the older the new can receive in terms of strength-based perspectives, like who brings what to the organization that we can all grow from and move in the direction where, again, people feel a sense of belonging to something greater than just what they do at their desk,

but also like how they make other people feel. And that's top down in terms of being people-oriented. But it's also bottom up in terms of people feeling respected, not just as a worker, but as someone who comes in from a person. a new perspective, a younger perspective, and then also from an older perspective, being respected for the talent and their experience and their knowledge that can be shared. That's beautiful.

And, oh, my God. Okay, there's a lot I want to hit. So I'm going to try to hold that last part there. That's a good spot right there. But I want to go back with, you said, them coming, millennials coming in, transitioning from college into the workplace. I feel, I don't know if you ever came across. in your line of work on their perspective of what they think work should be like.

And I'm trying to relate it in the most easiest ways I can. I feel like they would look at their job as a job that they would see in a movie, like where people are great friends that are just having a grand time, high five, and say, what do you do at after work? Let's go get a beer. And I'm like, that shit does not happen. Like, to be honest, people have their own lives. they got to live that.

And the millennial population needs to stop looking back at their high school life and grow the fuck up. People have the families. People have to fix their house. People have things to do. We can't. If I waste 10 minutes of talking to you after work, I will be completely mad as shit because I got a newborn son and I got shit that in the house that's falling apart that needs get fixed. Like, why don't people understand that? I think it's a lot of reasons why people don't understand it.

One, it starts with that's not their life, right? Greg, I don't understand things that are not my responsibility. But maybe there's a curiosity that's piqued when I'm at a stage in my life where that might be important to me. And I also think that some people don't feel like it's a waste of their time to spend an extra 10 minutes after work to get to know someone or. to share some common interests, especially in these times where most people are home all day, home with their kids, home with their spouses, home with their roommates, and they're sick of seeing them. And they want a little bit of like adult camaraderie outside of that, or they want a change

of scenery or a change of conversation. And for those who don't, still, we could help younger people to understand that by being present, to whomever you have a relationship with that is sort of new to the working force. So, for example, I have a 25-year-old niece who used to intern in my office when I was working in the city in my private practice. And I wanted her specifically to work with me in my office because she was a college student at the time and she needed money. But I wanted her to also get the customer service experience. I wanted her to see what it's like to come to a professional working space and see ordinary everyday people coming in for mental

health services and desigmatize that, but also to see how I relate to people as a professional woman and not just as her aunt. And I think it was really helpful for her because she was shy and she was anxious and it helped her to get out of that zone of like, I'm only here to not be seen and do the things sort of like for the day that you have me do without having to interface with too many people. And I wanted to push her a little bit. because that's not the real world outside of college. You're not going to be able to stay in your silo and not be seen and not talk to people and not be challenged.

And I had her do that year after year. She worked for me for about two or three years in her interim breaks from college. And now she's, I mean, with everything else that she's been doing, she's really outgoing. She still feels anxious, but she allows herself to be challenged by the adults in her life who will help reality check her to say,

I understand that it's really uncomfortable to speak up in spaces where you're the only one, one of whatever, or you're younger than other people and you feel out of place. But it's important to speak up. It's important for people to hear your voice. And you may not believe that right now, but keep doing it. And maybe you will see the value in that as you continuously do that. Okay. Now we're going to transition to wrap up here.

with what you've said. I wanted to combine that plus what we were talking about just a few minutes back with top down and bottom up communication. And for organizational leadership with that context in mind, with organizational leadership, if they have an employee who is that shy type, who is quiet, there's a part to me that wants to go military on them. All you got to do is speak up. You got to get in front of the whole fucking team and sing the most annoying song in front of everybody. If you could do that completely okay, then you can do whatever you want. But I know that would scar them for life and I don't want to do that.

So what could we do that would help the leadership take a different approach? First off, the top of my head, one thing that comes to mind is I think, when we contemplate leadership or we imagine leadership, we see it as this solo individual thing. And I don't. I see leadership as a conglomerate. So the president and vice president, the CFO and the CEO and HR and the EAP employee assistance program. I see all those people at play in leadership. And that means that everyone might be able to help cultivate a system's perspective where we all contribute to the cultivation of employees. So, EAP may be able to do workshops on cultural competency or effective communication at work or how to have a challenging conversation with the peer.

That's one part. Another part might be CFO's responsibility to be transparent about the budget, the expenses, where we are in our company's organization. So people aren't like hit from the side when there's, some need for layoffs. I think that's important. So I see everyone having a really important role to play. You could do that via newsletters that come out quarterly,

Zoom recorded sessions for people who don't or can't attend every meeting, one-to-one sessions with management to leadership to have specific plans for cultivating personal and professional growth with goals. And then also speaking to different people and having different departments interface, we're necessary, whether it's cross-menter. whether it's developing employee resource groups, whatever it may be, everyone can do something so that we see this as like a global, broader push to leadership having a community-oriented perspective and approach to, again, developing rising SARS for the next generation of leaders

in the organization. You're ahead of me there. Like, you definitely jumped to the next one. So that was good. You caught me off guard. I was going to say, like, we're going to transition from an individual level to a collective mindset and how we could maneuver. But this, that was, wow, that was fantastic. Thank you.

So how can our audience get in touch with you if they want to know more? Go right to my website, which is www. Lifecoachasha, lifecoachasha.com. And that's where people can learn more about some of my work here, some of my work, on podcasts, see where I've been featured in case they want to read up about me, and then find out more about the corporate wellness program and sit down with me for a 15-minute exploratory call and see if it's a good fit to bring in corporate wellness from a trauma-informed lens into your organization.

Beautiful. Asha, I appreciate your time today, and I appreciate you coming on your Transformation Station. Staying here. Thanks for having me. This is awesome. You've been listening to your transformation station, your voice on the online. the hard truths of leadership. We hope you've enjoyed the show.

We hope you've gotten some useful and practical information. Make sure to like, rate, and review the show. Remember, your transformation station is on all major platforms, including Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, TikTok, and YouTube at YTS, The Podcast. And visit the website at YTSThepodcast.com. Till next time. It's tax season, and at LifeLock, we know you're tired of numbers. But here's a big one you need to hear.

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