Your World Tonight - Death of the Pope, private healthcare, Hegseth on Signal again, and more

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Pope Francis has died at 88. Catholics around the world are in mourning, as plans are made for his funeral. We have reaction from around the world, and here in Canada, including from Indigenous people, whom the Pope apologized to for the abuses that happened at residential schools.And: Canadians are having to use their own money – to access basic healthcare. A shortage of family doctors across the country means private clinics are stepping in to fill the gap.Also: U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is on the defensive – again. A New York Times report says he texted attack plans to people in his family on the message app Signal.Plus: The campaigns have one more week to make their pitches to voters in the federal election. We have updates on what the major party leaders are up to.

So Canada, we've got to choose a new prime minister and it's a pretty crucial time. Even people who don't normally follow politics are trying to figure out what the heck is going on. I'm Catherine Cullen, host of The House, and I started a new weekly election show with two friends and fellow political nerds. Hello, I'm Daniel Thibault bringing you the Quebec Point de Vu. I'm Jason Microsoft and Calvary bringing the takes and stakes from the West. Together, we are House Party, a weekly elections podcast for everyone.

We tackle one big burning question every Wednesday. Find us in the House's feed wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Pope Francis was a messenger of hope, humility and humanity. He was a transcendent voice for peace, human dignity and social justice, working with people of all beliefs and backgrounds to light the path forward. A force for change in an institution rooted in ritual and tradition, from humble beginnings to his unexpected rise to the height of global spiritual power.

Pope Francis has died on Easter Monday after a stroke and heart failure. Now, as more than a billion Catholics mourn, the ancient protocols are underway in the Vatican, ending a chapter of history and beginning the process of choosing the next pope. Welcome to Your World Tonight. I'm Susan Bonner. It is Monday April 22nd coming up on 6 p.m. Eastern. He heard from survivors. He heard from, he heard very difficult stories and all

the way through he gave people the time that they needed. He gave them compassion. As tributes pour in from worshippers, from world leaders, Canadians are marking the Pope's connection to this country. The progress, the shortcomings, and the historic visit and apology to Indigenous people. We have full coverage of the Pope's death, the reaction, and the next steps. We'll have the rest of the day's news as well, but the CBC's Chris Brown begins our coverage from the Vatican. Though he had been extremely sick it was because his last hour seemed so busy and

so public that word of Pope Francis's death this morning came as a surprise. He taught us to live the values of the Gospel with fidelity, courage and universal love, said Cardinal Kevin Farrell, who read the official Vatican announcement of the Pope's death. Francis almost died in February during a long five-week hospital stay. So good to see you. But in his final hours yesterday he met U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance. He appeared before the Easter Sunday masses on the balcony above St. Peter's Square and he took an unexpected Pope Mobile tour to see the crowd of thousands up close. His Easter Sunday message was his final

public statement, read on his behalf. In it, Francis touched on many of the causes he advocated for, including ending the war in Gaza. During his few public appearances since he left hospital, the Pope appeared weak and frail. The Vatican said his cause of death was a stroke, followed by heart failure. Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, said Francis tried to jam as much living as he could into his final days. You couldn't have choreographed it better.

And we thank him for that. Francis was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, 88 years ago, and given the name Jorge Mario Bergoglio. He was the first Pope from South America and he was also the first Pope to hold the position while his predecessor was still alive after being selected following Pope Benedict's unexpected resignation in 2013. But having two living popes may have intensified the controversy in the church over Francis'

much more liberal leanings, such as when he said he was open to people who were gay. In his home in Argentina Monday, that aspect of his legacy was remembered fondly. It hurts me like crazy. It hurts me a lot because I agreed with his words in support of homosexuals," said Nicolas Cordoba. World leaders are sending their condolences, including US President Donald Trump. He was a good man, worked hard, he loved the world and it's an honor to do that. UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres praised Francis' devotion to social justice.

He leaves behind a legacy of faith, service and compassion for all, especially those on the margins of life or trapped by the horrors of conflict. Francis had detractors, particularly about his record on addressing historical sex abuse. And while many conservatives feel he strayed too far from traditional practice, some lament he didn't go further. While under Francis's leadership, dozens of women received significant promotions in the heavily patriarchal institution, but he stopped short of supporting women as full clergy members. The question now will be whether his successor as pope reinforces his changes or rolls them back. Chris Brown, CBC News, Rome.

With more on that question and what comes next, I'm joined by Megan Williams in Rome. Megan, what happens in the coming days? Well, tomorrow morning, a small group of cardinals and people who were close to the Pope will meet to decide the scheduling and the days going forward. They will figure out when the funeral is going to be held. We know it will be between Friday and Sunday. They'll also confirm whether or not the Pope's coffin will be moved to St. Peter's Basilica on Wednesday. But unlike past popes, he won't be buried in St. Peter's. His will has come out. He's expressed this before, but it was confirmed in his will that he wants to be buried in Santa Maria Maggiore,

another basilica in Rome dedicated to the Christian figure of Mary. And then also the date of the conclave. We know that there has to be nine days of mourning. They could schedule the conclave at the end of those nine days or even a few days after. So, all of that information will likely come out tomorrow. And the conclave will choose a new pope. That could also mean a new direction for the church. What can you tell us about that? Well, this pope, Pope Francis, named two-thirds of the cardinal electors, those are the cardinals under the age of 80, that can vote for the next pope. Those are people who had shared some important similar values to Pope Francis, otherwise

he wouldn't have elected them. Many of them are from places that traditionally Cardinals don't come from. Cardinals are often picked from sort of powerhouse cities where there's an archbishop who then becomes a Cardinal. Francis did things differently. So all of these men will come into Rome and really try and get to know each other

because they're from really all over the world. And over the next couple of weeks, they'll really just be trying to meet each other, figure out what their values are, who comes across as a leader that they can get behind in preparation for actually voting for the next pope. And what do we know about whether there are considerations of the Church making a kind of change in direction? Pope Francis was a disruptor. He was somebody who brought in quite radical change, not to the doctrine, but to the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. And of course, that was reflected in his global choices of cardinals. What many of the people I've been speaking to are saying is that they're looking for a consolidator, probably somebody who won't be a Pope 2.0,

but won't be a pendulum swing in the other direction, somebody who will somehow consolidate the changes that he brought about and steady the church and try and bring together different factions that were disrupted by some of the changes that he brought about and steadied the Church and trying to bring together different factions that were disrupted by some of the changes that Francis brought in. Interesting days ahead. Megan, thank you very much. Thank you.

Megan Williams at the Vatican. Francis was just the second Pope to visit Canada, a trip in 2022 that included a historic apology to Indigenous people for the abuse suffered in Canada's church-run residential school system. Alexander Silberman looks back at the legacy of that trip, the apology, and how Indigenous communities are reacting to today's news. On a warm July day in 2022, on the powwow grounds of Musquiches, a Cree community south of Edmonton, thousands of residential school survivors, indigenous leaders and community members gathered to hear Pope Francis speak. I am sorry. A long-awaited apology for the Catholic Church's role in residential schools. I humbly begged forgiveness for the evil committed by so many Christians

against the indigenous peoples, he said, delivering a historic apology for the abuses committed by some members of the church and the cultural destruction and forced assimilation that happened in residential schools. It was very emotional. Ted Kuzantz was there. He's a member of the Kisacouf's First Nation in Saskatchewan and a residential school survivor. Kuzantz says what touched him most

was when Francis went a step further. On his flight back to Rome, the Pope said he considered the abuse at residential schools amounted to genocide. For those words coming from the Holy Father, it was very powerful. And the succession of those words has to be carried on. Indigenous leaders spent years fighting for an apology in Canada, many calling it an important step for healing and reconciliation.

But some feel it did not go far enough. It was so shallow. Barry Kennedy is a member of the Carry the Kettle First Nation in Saskatchewan and a residential school survivor. He wants to see the Catholic Church take action and release the records related to residential schools. It was hard to imagine that there was no real honesty and truth behind that apology. But the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations

says it opened a new chapter for healing. Cindy Woodhouse-Nepinak was part of a delegation that visited the Pope at the Vatican in 2022 when Francis first apologized and committed to come to Canada. We don't want that work to stop. You know, at the same time, you know, we've lost an ally today.

Natan Obed is president of the Inuit Teparit Kanatami, which represents Inuit across Canada. Obed met the Pope twice, at the Vatican, and during his visit to Canada. We've heard very difficult stories. All the way through, he gave people the time that they needed. He gave them compassion. Pope Francis leaves behind a complicated legacy

for Indigenous peoples in Canada. Many left with a renewed sense of reconciliation, others hoping action doesn't stop at an apology. Alexander Silberman, CBC News, Regina. Canadian Catholics are reflecting on what Pope Francis meant for this country. Religious and political leaders are responding as well as survivors of clergy abuse. Many who say Francis opened dialogue when others turned away.

Ito Musa reports. Well, here is where I keep all my memories from the Pope. Peter Doherty sifts through letters sent to him by Pope Francis. It was Francis who ordained him as a priest back home in Argentina years ago. Doherty is no longer in the priesthood but he still treasures those memories and the impact the Pope had. He can connect with people in a very special way, very directly and you feel

that you're connected with him. Many people say the Pope's ability to connect with Catholics and non-Catholics was undeniable. And for some Canadians, his passing is being felt deeply. He just knew, he just got you. He was a people person. I took it personally. I felt like a family member had passed away. Pope Francis was a voice of moral clarity. Our prayers are with all Catholics. Federal leaders took a moment during their campaigns to mark his death.

Often referred to as the people's pope, Francis stood apart for his vocal support for the most marginalized. His open and inclusive nature also extended to his selection of senior members of the clergy, says Archbishop Richard Smith in Edmonton. The pope, in his choice of cardinals, broke the mold, and he went all over the world, countries that never had popes before. Peter Doherty also says Francis wasn't afraid

to address difficult issues like abuse in the church. He didn't want to hide that. I mean, he was the face of the church saying, OK, I'm here to take responsibility of everything that happened. The question now is whether Francis's legacy of being an open progressive leader will continue with the Catholic Church's next leader.

Gemma Hickey in St. John's, Newfoundland is a survivor of clergy abuse. Certainly what I'm looking for, what we're looking for is someone's record on how they have handled abuse in the past while they were in a position of authority. Martin Laliberté in Trois-Rivières is president of the Assembly of Quebec Catholic Bishops. He says filling Francis's shoes will be a challenge, but the Catholic Church needs a new leader with a fresh new outlook.

We should be less, I'll say, looking to ourselves as an institution and a church that is more inclusive and more participative also. Cardinals from around the world, including Canada, will be heading to Rome to take part in the conclave to elect the next pope. Idomusa, CBC News, Toronto. Coming up on the podcast, one week to go, party leaders make their final pitches as

the election campaign heads into the home stretch. Plus, the U.S. Defense Secretary sends sensitive military information a second time over an unsecure app. The Pope's death has shifted the tone of the federal election campaign, but with election day one week away, leaders are still making their pushes and promises to voters. We have reporters following the main parties once again, beginning with the Conservatives. As crazy and costly as Trudeau's budget plan already was, Mark Carney's is even worse.

During an event in East Toronto to promote his plan for homebuilding, Conservative leader Pierre Pauliev shifted focus to the Liberal platform, calling it a costly mess, even though he still hasn't released one of his own. Tomorrow we'll have a platform for all eyes to see. Pauliev says the platform reveal is Tuesday. He has promised a dollar-for-dollar approach to the budget. For every new dollar spent, another must be cut. The Liberals are claiming some social programs could be scrapped as a result.

Whenever liberals present you with numbers, you should be afraid and very afraid because their numbers are always wrong. Poliev says there will be cuts to the public service, consultants, foreign aid and the CBC, but he's also promising to unleash natural resources development to pay for tax breaks. By generating more economic growth, cutting back on liberal waste and mismanagement, then we will deliver real change. Poliev will spend much of the closing week in the Toronto area,

where dozens of seats are up for grabs and the election could be decided. JP Tasker, CBC News, Mississauga, Ontario. I'm Tom Perry, travelling with the Liberal campaign. Good morning. Mark Carney is picking up the pace in this final week. The Liberal leader making stops in three Atlantic provinces today, starting in Prince Edward Island, where he promised to help provinces, territories and Indigenous communities

recruit more doctors and nurses put 4 billion dollars into building hospitals and clinics and to defend women's health care, including access to abortion. We will protect these rights by always standing and defending the charter of rights and freedoms. Carney using that as a segue into an attack against his main political rival. Pierre Poliev is now committing to override your constitutional rights. The conservative leader has pledged to use the notwithstanding clause to ensure murderers

who kill multiple people serve consecutive life sentences, something the Supreme Court has ruled against. On abortion, Poliev has vowed he would not pass laws to restrict a woman's right to choose. But the Liberals have fanned suspicions about the Conservatives' commitment to abortion rights in the past, with Carney now warning voters that when it comes to overriding rights, it's not where you start, but where you end up. Tom Perry, CBC News, Truro, Nova Scotia. Hi. How are you doing?

I'm okay. Are you cold too? I'm David Thurton travelling with the NDP on Vancouver Island. Jagmeet Singh is also talking about health care, how his plan to provide Canadians with free medications differs from the Liberals. New Democrats want to expand coverage beyond diabetes drugs and contraceptives including essential medicines which Liberal leader Mark Carney has stopped short of committing to. On top of that he said he's not going to go forward with

pharmacare. He's gonna stop it in its tracks. He's not gonna expand. Additionally Singh is underlining the need to vote for New Democrats this election. Absolutely. So yeah, I think I want people to be very thoughtful about the way they vote. And in a lot of cases, the thoughtful vote to stop the Conservatives, to get someone that's going to fight for you, someone that's going to stop the cuts against our health care, is to vote for New Democrats. So yes, vote New Democrat. Singh is making the case for strategic voting without actually saying that.

A resurgent Liberal Party in places like B.C. threatens to split the vote, putting half their current seats at risk. David Thurton, CBC News, Comox, British Columbia. I'm Rafi Boujikane, in New Quebec City, covering the Bloc Québécois. So it's all the powers that should be given to Quebec. Leader Yves-Francois Blanchet insisting the federal government should not be establishing immigration levels without the provinces. He says he wants Quebec to be continually consulted when it comes to setting goals for

this province and full control over immigration in Quebec. We have the responsibility to know precisely what we have achieved, where we have failed. We need some tools to measure the success of what we do. Blanchet also says he believes the Liberals and Mark Carney will win the election. He made those comments Sunday night on Tout le Monde en Parle, a popular Radio-Canada talk show. His point to the audience, if the liberals are guaranteed to win, Quebecers should vote for the Bloc, so it can press Carney to keep the province's interests at heart in the trade

war with the US. He also alluded to how his party could still be efficient with 25 MPs. That would be an 8 seat loss for him. Today, though, he pushed back on that concession. Because I believe that in, I know that in the last two elections, the last ten days of the campaign were very good for us. The bloc's goal in elections is always to hold the balance of power. Blanchet has just a week left to convince voters to help him.

Rafi Boudjicani on CBC News, Saint-Hilarion, Quebec. The health care promises we've been hearing during the campaign usually involve government spending. The federal government transfers money to provinces which control how it's spent. But more and more, Canadians are having to use their own money to access care. Some provinces are allowing private clinics. Christine Birak reports.

If I have something emergency, what I can do? Most patients at this private Montreal area health clinic don't have a family doctor. Their first appointment costs at least $350. After that? Every 15 minutes, I can pay $150. Aisha Modair says it feels like a tax. I'm working full-time job, but what I gonna do another days extra to pay this?

Unlike most provinces, Quebec allows doctors to bill in both the public system and through private clinics. As more doctors go private, more than 2 million Quebecers don't have a family doctor. So I got this email and I was very surprised. Anisa Carrasco found out her family doctor of 10 years in Toronto moved to a for-profit health clinic, offering same-day office visits, house calls, access to MRIs. She was impressed. This is a healthcare that all deserve.

Until seeing the fee, $4,245 a year. I already pay through the services through my taxes, right? So why should I pay a private company? The latest federal data shows in a year Canadians paid over $62 million out of pocket for medically necessary services they should have received at no cost. Some doctors say companies are using loopholes to charge fees while provinces look away. These clinics are charging between $ and eight thousand dollars a year. Dr. Rita McCracken is a family doctor in BC.

A private clinic offered her a job. The recruiter estimated she could drop 800 patients, make more money and pay no overhead. What it does is it takes a family doctor like me and puts me behind a paywall. She didn't take the job but it was an attractive offer. I worked in the public system for 20 years. Dr. Martin Potter now owns a private clinic in Quebec, but he may have difficulty in the future hiring staff. The province has plans to force new doctors to work in the public system,

reminding them their training costs taxpayers $400,000 to $800,000. Potter says Quebec needs to do better. So instead of fixing the reason why people have left the public system they're just basically preventing an option for these doctors. I understand that it's not a luxury that everyone could afford. Katrina Ross is in Potter's clinic for an ear infection. She says she can't sit in an ER all day and will pay for care but feels lost without a family doctor. I think it's very anxiety provoking. I think it's very frustrating.

Experts say the federal government can push for change by pulling millions in funding from provinces if they don't improve health care for everyone, not just those who can afford it. Christine Birak, CBC News, Toronto. This is Your World Tonight from CBC News. If you want to make sure you stay up to date and never miss one of our episodes, follow us on Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. Just find the follow button and lock us in.

He is a defense secretary on the defensive. Pete Hegseth is under fire again for using a commercial messaging app to share highly sensitive military intelligence. The New York Times says the Pentagon chief told family members about U.S. plans to attack Yemen. Paul Hunter reports. He is doing a great job. U.S. President Donald Trump outside the White House

for the annual Easter egg roll on his now embattled Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth. Everybody's happy with him. Coming to Hegseth's defense, at least publicly, after fresh reports, Hegseth had shared sensitive U.S. military details with his wife, his brother and his personal lawyer using the messaging app Signal. It's just fake news.

It just brings up stories. I guess it sounds like disgruntled employees. Just last month Trump's national security adviser Mike Walz came under fire for setting up a chat on Signal that included Hegseth and other senior U.S. security officials and, accidentally, the editor of the Atlantic magazine, Hegseth himself, sharing sensitive intel on that chat. Hegseth today, on all of it, blamed the media. See, this is what the media does. They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees and then they

try to slash and burn people and ruin their reputations. Not going to work with me. But it comes as Hegseth is in the center of a separate storm at the Pentagon where last week three senior officials were fired as part of an internal investigation into leaks of classified information and just a day after the Pentagon's former top spokesman published an op-ed describing the Pentagon as being in total chaos and a full-blown meltdown with, in his words, dysfunction, backstabbing and continuous high-level missteps. Democrats have been quick to slam Hegseth. Senior Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer writing

on X, Hegseth should be fired. Six other Democratic senators have said likewise, among them Tammy Duckworth writing, Hegseth is not only an effing liar, but is a threat to U.S. national security and must resign in disgrace. Even one hiccup. Nine years ago, Hegseth, then a Fox News contributor, criticized the then former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on word she had used a private email server for official public communications. Here's Hegseth on that in 2016. Any security professional, military, government or otherwise, would be fired on the spot for

this type of conduct and criminally prosecuted. Back at the White House, a Trump official denying a report. The White House has begun looking for someone to replace Hegseth. Indeed, for the record, he still has Trump's backing for now. Paul Hunter, CBC News, Washington. Returning to our top story, the death of Pope Francis, being marked around the world and with special importance in his native Argentina. Francis was the first pope from that country or anywhere in Latin America,

and even as he rose to the heights of church power, Argentines noted how Francis kept strong roots. From how he sipped South American mate in the Vatican, to his lifelong support of his local soccer club. Sebastián Lacunza is a political columnist in Argentina. People woke up this morning with the news of the death of Pope Francis, a man who is considered by many here as the main Argentine in history, at least in international terms.

Jorge Bergoglio was a priest deeply identified with the city of Buenos Aires. He was a fan of a soccer team, a very popular soccer team here, San Lorenzo de Magro. And he was also a reader of authors who wrote novels and stories and tales in which Buenos Aires occupied the center stage. Bergoglio loved tango.

So this morning, since very early this morning, masses began at the Buenos Aires Cathedral and at Flores neighbourhood where Bergoglio used to live. Today Argentina's president announced the country would mark the death of Pope Francis with seven days of official mourning. Thank you for joining us. This has been Your World Tonight for Monday, April 21st. I'm Susan Bonner.

Talk to you again.