Your World Within Podcast by Eddie Pinero - Bronnie Ware | Top 5 REGRETS of the DYING

Episode Date: September 19, 2021

"Those who accept you as you are, and who know you very well, are worth more than anything in the end." - Bronnie Ware In this episode I sit down with three time best selling author and motivational speaker Bronnie Ware to discuss her international Best Seller, "The Top 5 Regrets of the dying." We cover topics such as the finitude of life, the opportunity contained in our struggle and the importance of being kind to ourselves. You can find Bronnie's here: https://amzn.to/2VS0U8H

Welcome to the Your World Within podcast. I'm Eddie Pinero. And in today's episode, I sit down with The One and Only Brani, where this was a special conversation for me. Brani's been a hero of mine for a long time, so to be able to sit down and have a one-on-one, it was pretty cool. I've referenced her work in my videos and lectures and all over the place, right? So Brani is a three-time bestselling author, She's a motivational speaker, best known for a book Top Five Regrets of the Dying, which is an international bestseller. And that's what we spend the majority of the conversation talking about. For those that haven't read the book, just a quick backstory. So the idea behind her book, Top Five Regrets of the Dying, she was a caregiver for people in their final days, right, that knew they were going to die and she took care of them and, you know, sort of made them comfortable.

And the book talks about all these different lessons that she learned while helping these folks, most of them older and age. A few not, but most of them older. So they had wisdom. They were able to look back at the breadth of their life and really gauge and analyze what they would have done differently. So these top five regrets are the things that she found over time working with these folks. And I'm just going to read through them because we didn't in the conversation.

and I feel like it would help lay some groundwork. So the first regret that she found was people saying, I wish I had the courage to live a life that was true to myself, not a life that others expected to me or expected of me. Number two, I wish I hadn't worked so hard. Number three, I wish I had the courage to express my feelings. Number four, I wish I'd stayed in touch with my friends. And number five, I wish I let myself be happier.

and that's one that we spend a lot of time on. But it's a great conversation about a lot of themes, these themes and sort of themes that are woven in, particularly the idea that life is finite, that we're going to die and that we remember that, when we remember that, we live differently. We live in a way that's conducive to our happiness and authenticity. So before I jump in,

I just want to say, if you enjoy this podcast, If it brings you value, and you're listening on Apple Podcasts, it would truly, truly, truly mean a lot for you to pop on there and leave a five-star review. It helps me get this podcast out to other folks who would benefit as well. So big deal to me on my end, and I'm grateful for that. And now the moment that you've been waiting for, the one and only Brani Ware. Bronny, thank you for joining me today. I want to start with a question about kind of the execution of your book, right? Top five regards to the dying.

You were working with people in their final moments and learning some critical things that changed your life. And you went on to write a blog and obviously this book. And at what point did you realize that this was something that you wanted to get out to the masses, that it was something that could help change the world and impact lives the way that it has? Initially, it was just common themes were coming up for me, but I just took those as things that I needed to learn for myself. And so I started recognizing it wasn't one set moment other than these repeated themes kept coming at me.

And then I think, okay, I've had this conversation before. I better pay a bit more attention here. life's trying to teach me something. But there was one critical moment when John, one of the people I was looking after one of my patients, he actually said to me, make sure you pass this information on, tell anyone you can. He was meaning, well, I assumed at the time it felt like he was meaning my friends or anyone I cared about. Make sure that my learning hasn't been in vain. Make sure you learn from it.

make sure you help as many people, you know, learn from it as well. And it was sort of in that moment, I just thought, yeah, okay, okay, well, I better start sharing these conversations. Because I, as with confidentiality, you don't share what you learn. And so, because it's a really intimate space of revelation, what they're sharing with you. So I always just allowed them to really fully trust what they were sharing with me. But when I was sort of given that permission from John, I did then elaborate more with friends. But even after eight years, Eddie, I still had no idea that it was going to be shared with so many people. It was only once I'd left there and I started teaching, left working with dying people and I started teaching songwriting in a women's

jail and a music magazine asked me to write an article about that and so then i thought why aren't i writing more i love writing i'll start a blog because i was a singer-songwriter in those days as well as a palliative carer and so i started a blog my first article was about teaching in the jail and then i just had no idea what to write about i even googled good blog topics this is when blogs were the whole thing well before oh yeah yeah everything else so this is 2009 And so I looked up good blog topics and they were all like write things about what's sensational in the news and I was like, oh my goodness, that is so lacking in authenticity. And so I just sort of sat with it and then I just got a very clear inner guidance that just said,

write what you know. And I thought, oh, okay, well, the regrets of dying. I've just finished eight years of looking after dying people. their regrets have transformed my life and given me some of life's greatest lessons, I'll write about the regrets. So it was sort of that, even though John had given me permission and asked me to share his mistakes onwards so others would benefit from it, it was really just the fact that I wanted to get out of singer-songwriting, that world of singing in pubs, and work more from home. So I decided I'd start a blog.

and then of course the blog took off ridiculously and then I got offered an agent signed me to write a book. The book was rejected by 25 publishers. I put it out myself and then I got in the same 24 hours as I became a mother. I was offered an international publishing deal and now it's in 32 languages of over a million people reading it. So you just don't know those moments which seeds you sow are the way. so they're going to sprout. Yeah, and the rest is history, right? John was the gentleman that kept putting off retirement, right?

One more year, one more year, one more year. That's right. Yeah, that hit deep. And there's actually a situation like with a family friend that's, you know, that's going through something similar that's like, you know, on the fence about retirement. Why do you think we miss some of that information? Well, death's pretty scary.

Yeah. So is our own potential because even though there's a point of how much pain you can tolerate, there's also a point of how much joy you can tolerate until you work through your resistance. And so I think that, you know, part of the success of the book is because it incorporates my own journey in it which shows real life situations like, okay, we can grasp these concepts of the five regrets. but to actually see how you've got to work through your resistance and you've actually got to allow yourself to receive good in and to break through all the things that are holding you back.

But you also need to face the fact that you're going to die. And when you do that, it gives you the courage to actually get through that resistance because you realize how sacred your time is. So I think it's really mostly, though, about that, we have a limit on how much joy we can allow in and that we figure we've got all the time in the world to get to that point and we don't. And so we need to sort of think, well, how do I really want my life to look? How much joy do I truly want to experience? And when you get clear on that, then you start finding the courage to actually start breaking through the resistance

that's holding you back from that. That's awesome. There's this account on Twitter called the Daily Death Reminder, and it's like this little Grim Reaper. And every day it posts, you know, you are going to die someday to kind of help, you know, help us keep that in mind. But, you know, all joking aside, it's one of the most important things to remember. And, you know, when we close your book and we're super inspired and enlightened, and then I guess we're, of go back into the day-to-day and our habits and routines and the minutia seems huge even when it's not. You know, are there certain things that you have done that helped you, I guess, not lose sight

of that North Star, of what's important, that, you know, there's a finitude of time and we need to make the most of it? Well, I have a pretty deep practice with mindfulness and committing to presence. And I think if you can leave enough, and the way I've got to that is to leave enough space to actually experience the day and not always be striving for tomorrow or something else or resisting the past. So I just found that I function better if I don't overfill my calendar. And so when people say to me, oh, you must be so busy, I say, well, I'm full.

That doesn't mean I'm busy. I don't want to be busy. I'm full. And part of that fullness means that every afternoon I get to have my cup of try and read a book before or just sit out on the swing chair in the garden before my daughter gets home from school so in between work time and and parent time but there's also days where I just can feel in my heart I'm not meant to be working today it's too nice outside or just that my energy is a bit low and I just give myself I leave enough space always in my calendar and

enough flexibility that I reach my commitments like, you know, I made this commitment to be here with you. There's no way I'm not going to be here with you. Excuse me. But at the same time, I don't overfill my calendar. And so by leaving some space to breathe, then you actually pay a lot more attention to what's going on in the day. You're not so hurried. And the more space I leave, it gives me flexibility to be present in that day and do whatever my energy or my mood is calling for, but also it makes me notice more in the day. So, and the more I notice, the more present I become in my life, and that actually has now become a habit. So I can't be present 24-7, but I am present a heck of a lot more than I ever was. And so I feel that when my death comes,

or when my daughter's grown up and leaves home, or whatever significant things happen, any sort of I can think, well, at least I paid attention while it was happening. And at least I was there as much as possible while my life was unfolding. So I think it is really just leaving yourself enough space to actually acknowledge the time, the moment that you're in, the day that you're in, and leave a little bit of flexibility because when I leave space, I find life gives me a lot of shortcuts. so if I overfill my time trying to control it and do too much work or just forcing or striving too hard, life usually reminds me pretty quickly.

Brody, there's no joy in this. What are you doing? And I'll take a day off. I'll go out and I'll enjoy the next day or whatever, just do something nice for myself. And almost always when I honour that and that commitment to being present for my life and to enjoying my life, then life actually gives me a whole. shortcut that saves me about 20 steps professionally anyway yeah i mean that's that's such a powerful thing it's a theme throughout the the book as well like the the little things the things that we miss

um if we don't position our lives and our calendars for that i remember um a very specific piece where you get a 30 minute break and you walk down to the water and you're looking at the water's edge and you said you sometimes you know you said when you got lucky you'd hear a saxophone and it would just it would light you up. And it's like these are the little things that we tend to walk right by. And, you know, they're always important. And I think your book emphasizes that, but particularly in our dark moments, because, you know, there were some beautiful aspects.

It sounded like of what you've done, but it was certainly heavy stuff. Why do you think the little moments become so precious and so valuable? Like, why do we see things at those times in our lives and we otherwise wouldn't? I think because they're what life is actually made up on, but we spend so much of our life thinking it's the big stuff that is really important, the big moments. Really, in life, there's probably only, I don't know,

half a dozen to a dozen really big momentous times. And life is actually made up of all of those smaller moments. So if all we're doing is wait a lot of, for this big goal to be achieved or to, you know, have this big dream come true, whatever, or that's all we're focused on. Then we're missing the beauty in today because if you take out those, say, 10 big things that might happen in your life, like the big big things, if you take those out, there might only be three big things in your life, you know, so you're spending your whole

life just waiting for three things or 10 things to happen. When you put it like that. mystery. Well, really, it's true. And in the meantime, what about all that space, all that time in between? And there is so much, so much beauty and delight in the little things when you open your eyes to them. And life just becomes richer. It's not woo-woo stuff like, oh, yeah, life's beautiful. Like looking at my window at the moment, I can see the leaves are blowing in the breeze and there's a blue sky and there's pink flowers on my high biscuits and you know all those things are very beautiful and pretty but when i actually go outside and i feel the sun on my face or i just have a

chat with the neighbor and we have a bit of a giggle and it's a two-minute chat and then you walk on it's those things and when you pay attention to those things you realize how much they actually can sustain your well-being and your joy not the big things because the big things are fleeting. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Yeah, so when you have those big dots in life, and that's all you're looking at,

you miss everything in between. And I don't think that's woo-woo at all. I mean, that's art is a reminder of why we live. It's like, you know, and I wonder in your, you know, you are a delivery mechanism for that, you know. And maybe it's not the bank, as you stated, that you weren't crazy about. But like when I, when I'm going through your book,

and your story that's woven in, and you're talking about how you did some photography, and you did some songwriting, and some blogging, and some writing. And it's like, yeah, the medium changes. But, like, the connection there is that you use every single outlet as it feels like, and please, tell me if you disagree, like a reminder of what truly matters in life. How do you, is that off the Mark, like how do you visualize that sort of growth as an artist, trying all those things, exploring and getting your message out the way that you have? Well, that's a lovely question, Eddie. I think you have to be open to pivoting.

I certainly wasn't when I was trying to get going as a singer-songwriter, and it was only through having a really big burnout after that to realize, actually, I hate singing in part I hate going out at 10 o'clock at night to play in pubs. But what it is mostly is that I leave space. And when I leave space, the creative ideas come. And so at the moment I'm working on my first novel. I've never done a fictional piece of writing. And it's really a huge project writing a book.

For me, especially as a mom, my work days aren't huge. They're not like 10, 12-hour days. And so, but I just felt this calling and I honour it because I know that if I don't, or maybe it's not even a calling, it's a curiosity, I can't say curiosity, about trying to new things and expanding myself. And so I've published three non-fiction books. They've all done well, especially if I've regrets, has done exceptionally well. But I just thought, I wonder what it'd be like to write a novel. And so my publisher talked me out of it because they don't do it. the sort of fiction I'm doing. So I have to go back to being a beginner all over again with this and learn how to write as a fictional writer. I have no qualifications in writing. So it's just courage that I have. But I just had this feeling when they took me out of it that it was still

with me a couple of years later, three or four or five years later. And I thought, I'm going to regret this if I don't have a go. And so when I leave space, that's when I I get the creative ideas. And so I've taken myself off social media mostly for a month or so now and I just drop in every now and then to say hi to my audience so that I can focus on the book. But I do that over summer, which is over Christmas in Australia, like our summer break is mid-December till the end of January. I often go off social media then too. And what I find whenever I take myself offline for a while is the creative ideas just burst. forth, like absolutely burst forth. And so I just think, well, why not do that too? You know,

why not give it a try? And I guess it's in myself, I'm just, I just want to see what I can create. Creativity is one of my biggest joys. And all of my themes are similar, but even when I do my nature photography, I still write quotes that go with the nature photography or whatever. And And so I just love that blend of different modalities to express myself. But more than anything, I think it's just I leave space and an idea comes. But then what I do is I sit back and look at it because I've learned the hard way that to honour every idea that comes may actually rob me of joy. Because just because you're clever and you've got great ideas and you can find a way

to make something happen, you really need to check in to say, is it what my heart really wants? Or am I just doing this because I feel I should or I could? Like, do I really, really want to do this? And when I've done things that other people have convinced me to do, they've not been massively successful. Not that that is the goal for me. But they are a reminder that, okay, there wasn't enough. joy in them for me.

And so I can't, even though they might be beautiful products that can help people, I can't promote them as well because my heart wasn't in them. And yeah, so an example is I had a membership for a while and I ended up closing that I loved my audience, but it wasn't actually something I got called to do. It was something that my publisher encouraged all of us to do. And so I did it, but it wasn't actually. creative enough for me and and it wasn't what I was called to do I'm called to bring beauty into people's lives through the modalities that I do and yes I think if

you leave space and also have the courage to pivot and understand that sometimes life's closing the door on you because it's got a better thing in store and that's what happened to me with my music I just pushed and pushed and pushed to try and get it out there. And it will actually get featured in the movie because I've sold the film rights for Five Regrets and the script that's been developed has my music in it, which is really lovely. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, but letting go when I tried so hard to get out there as a singer-songwriter, even though my heart hated being on stage performing in pubs and everything that comes with that, then Life actually, you know, said, try a different approach and working from home.

home is such a dream come true and such a blessing for my quiet nature. So I think if you're coming up against resistance or you're coming up against hard times, well this is what I do. There's two things I do. One is that, or two questions I consider, two options. Is this a hard time because I'm going in the wrong direction and I'm trying to force something? Or is it a hard time because I'm just resisting it. And so then I can check in with my heart and think, like learning how to write this novel. I've had a lot of resistance to it. And so it's like, okay, but are you going in the wrong direction here, Bronny, writing this novel?

Or is it just your resistance to growth and becoming a beginner again? And it's like, well, my heart wanted to write this novel for years. I'm writing it. It's just resistance. Keep going. Keep going. You'll get through your resistance. which I have. But there's other times we can force things and force things and force things

and it's because we're actually forcing in the wrong, we're going in the wrong direction and life is trying to say, stop, I've got something better in store for you. That's amazing. Yeah, like one of the, as an artist, a storyteller, whatever it is, like understanding that resistance. I've always felt like one of the hardest things to do is maintain your authenticity when there's so many, to your point, right, there's so many ways to pivot and change things and new ideas and advice and hey this works and everyone's doing this and it's like if you don't analyze that resistance like it's very easy to make a wrong turn and i think that's a powerful point um i have a quote from you related to this that i thought

was unbelievable um you said uh i hated this part of my life this compulsion to always throw caution to the wind and create such challenging situations for myself time and again. Yet it was also addictive. Each time I did this, I challenged my fears head on and I somehow always, always landed on my feet. So that to me sums up this, the entirety of the courage, you know, contained within regret minimization, you know, and moving forward and trusting the, the, unknown, like not knowing, but having a feeling that things will work out. And you'll figure it out along the way. Is that something that, because in the book you sort of talk about, you know, that sort of building slowly. Is that something that you still struggle with from time to time

today? Do you feel like you're just, you have trust now in the unknown? Because there's a lot of people that reach out, and particularly when I told them, you know, that we were having an interview, like they're doing new things and they want to explore, but it's tough. It's scary when you don't know what's down the road and you're leaving the security of now. Sure, sure. Just take one step at a time. Really, we don't need to know more than one or two steps at a time because so often we think we know the way we're going anyway and it never turns, I mean, it rarely turns out how we thought. We might think we've got 20 steps to take to reach a goal. and it's 100 steps or it's 10 steps then a six-month break and then another three steps or whatever.

So we only thought we had control anyway. We never have full control. But if we just take a step at a time, honestly, life will give us the shortcuts. And the way I do that, I don't think too far ahead now because I really love the element of surprise. One of my songs is actually called Let Yourself Be Surprised. And it was advice given to me from an older and wiser friend when I was in my 20s. And it's always stayed with me. So I also have really big faith in life now because I've taken so many risks

and have always, always landed on my feet like I said in the book, that life has just shown me that it knows my needs better than I do myself. My greatest decision maker is about regrets and knowing that I'm going to die. It's facing the fact that I'm going to die. So if I'm up against something and I'm trying something new, I think, okay, I don't know how to do this, but I'm going to take the first couple of steps and see where it leads because if I don't at least give it a go, I'm going to regret it and I know what it's like. I've witnessed the anguish of regrets.

when you're at the end of your life, you're too exhausted to do another thing and make any changes, you've missed your chance, you've let your life go by without bringing enough conscious choice to it, and you've just drifted along or chased the wrong goals, then I wouldn't wish that anguish and pain on anyone, not even your worst enemy. So because I've seen that repeatedly, and what a blessing that is to me, I know that there is no way I'm going to live my life with the risk of regrets. I have compassion for my old self and the mistakes I've made rather than carrying those regrets. You know, those mistakes being regrets, no, they're just mistakes now.

But in moving forward, I just take a step or two at a time because I know that even if it doesn't work out or I drop dead tomorrow, at least I gave it a go and so then I'm not going to regret it because at least I had the guts to give it a go. And as you're moving towards something, you know, you talked about the difference between surrender and giving up, right? Like whatever your particular objective is at that point. And because I'd never thought about it. I always thought of them as sort of the same, right? There's always something you can do. There's always something you can do. And you changed my thinking on that, right? Basically, surrender takes courage. And in the book, it got you out of a few rough spots. So maybe you could talk about the difference. Sure. Well, giving up is just stopping and not believing in anything else and just closing the door completely on something.

Surrendering is understanding that you've done the absolute best you could. It's giving up the forcing of something that isn't working and not giving up in the sense of quitting, but giving up and saying, okay, I'm going to trust life here. and whatever you call life, God, the universe. I'm going to trust that life knows my needs better. I have done everything I possibly can, mentally, physically, metaphysically, emotionally, whatever, socially.

I have done every single thing I can, and I've used every tool I know within myself to make this happen or to find this solution, whatever. and I can't do any more. I'm going to hand it over. I still believe it might be possible, but I don't know how, so I'm going to allow life to help me

if that's the right direction. And so it's just, it's giving up it, but it's giving up with an openness, not a quitting or failing judgment on yourself. It's more actually. an achievement that, okay, I have given this everything. I have done the absolute best I can. I'm going to let go now and let life help me or just let go and trust that I meant life's got something better in store for me. Yeah. So obviously at the macro, if I'm understanding you and I'm

pretty sure I do, like there are things that they're out of your control and you're wasting your time worrying about them. That's to your detriment, right? But it's sort of day to day, things you can let go. One of the things you talk about is criticism, right? So the Buddha, for example, and if I'm butchering this, please tell me. I think I have it right. But someone was yelling at the Buddha and he tended to brush it off and someone says, how'd you do that? And he essentially says, if someone gives you a gift and you don't receive it, do you have the gift? Like, meaning it's not, he chose not to let that enter his world. Do you see, because you're, the limelight, right? And so it doesn't matter what you're saying, how great your message is.

There will be people that disagree with you. Do you see that? Do you deal with that? And do you consider that a type of surrender? I'll just backtrack a tiny bit to add, surrender is trusting in the big picture, is admitting that you don't understand everything right now, but that you are going to trust in the big picture. For me, surrender and criticism aren't really in the same. vote. Surrender for me is it's a joyous freedom that you gift yourself because when you do let go and you trust in life, you do set yourself free of having to know all of the answers and then you allow life to actually give those shortcuts to you and send you the people you need or the information you need. So it's very freeing once you have the courage to do that.

criticism you know I grew up as a black sheep in a very critical family so I've done a lot of healing around criticism and I couldn't care less about it now because people of course are going to judge you but they've not walked in your shoes they don't know where your opinion has like how many thousands of experiences have got you to that point in time that opinion in time, you also don't know what theirs are. And so they can only see life through their eyes and their experiences. So I don't actually spend any excess time online that I don't have to because I've got bigger things to enjoy than getting praise or criticism,

like, or criticism or praise. Like I'm not online waiting for someone to build me up. joy doesn't come from that. And so my disappointment or sadness doesn't come from strangers knocking me down. It's like, okay, well, if you're such a negative person and you want to judge me based on your own ignorance of my experiences, well, that sort of says more about you than me, but I'm not going to miss what's going on in my world today just because of that. And so it's really, you know, I've been so blessed to be free of that because and again it's not just because I grew up with a critical family and I had to find my peace around that it's also the fact that you're going to die like I'm going

to die when I'm at the end of my life whatever that journalist happened to say about me in that paper that's now decomposing in a compost heap you know it's like well you know that has no relevance to my joy or my sense of self. What has relevance to my sense of self is how I show up for my daughter, how I show up for myself, how I show up for the planet and how kindly I treat the planet and the people who are in my life. And knowing that I am honoring life with as much courage as possible. That's all that really matters to me. And so getting bigger and growing and becoming more public. I mean, I've managed it quite well. I'm quite introverted and I don't do a lot of interviews anymore and everything else. But my work is really known, but you still can decide how

you're going to manage that from the start or if you've got to pivot some at some point, you can still pull it back a bit and say, this part of my life is not for everyone else. This is my private life, like my daughter's face. I never put her online. I share plenty of my life, but I don't share at all. And if people are going to criticize me or judge me, I've got better things to do with my time than try and explain myself to be understood by someone who will probably never understand me. And so I'd rather just think, okay, well, I hope your journey's happy and good luck to you. We all suffer. We all try and do our best. But for where they're at at the time, it has no relevance to my pace.

Yeah. That's something about you that I find really inspiring. Like it seems like you are just so at peace. Like you've blocked out, I mean, from this conversation,

from the book, from other interviews I've seen. Like, you just seem like you've done a very good job of blocking out the stuff that's not conducive

to your happiness. So that's pretty, pretty inspiring. Well, death's a pretty good tool for living. Yeah. It's a good tool for a lot.

Yeah. Cool. So maybe, well, will end with this. I certainly want to be respectful of your time. But you mentioned in the book a few times that, you know, being kind to others, certainly an essential thing. But something that we forget sometimes is being kind to ourselves as well. You know, through through my eyes where I sometimes do this tug-a-war where it's like when you have plans and dreams and there's some ambition

to what you're doing, which like so many folks, you're always thinking ahead, what you can be, what you're going to grow to it, what you're going to become. Sometimes you can forget to look back. Like you always feel like you're in this deficit. What are your thoughts on that? I guess have you ever been in that situation? It seems like certainly you've overcome that if you were. But just maybe your thoughts on that and how we can be more kind to ourselves on the day to day. Well, I think we need to look back and give ourselves some credit for how far we've come. And that's not necessarily professionally. It can be as well.

But it's more about just in our growth and how much we've learnt about life and changes we've consciously tried to make and ways we've tried to improve our life. And so that is really an act of kindness to ourselves to say, actually, you're doing fine. You're doing really well as you know you've tried really hard, you've had the courage, you've made some choices, you've made some mistakes, it's part of being human, just accept that that that's, you know, don't carry those regrets. But it's also realizing that in this moment in time, you're doing your best as who you are at the moment with all the life skills you've developed and that you'll grow into the rest of it. You don't have to know the rest of it and you're growing into it. But try and enjoy that process of growing into it rather than striving so hard that you're not giving yourself the kindness of your efforts to recognize your efforts now. And that where you are now is enough for this moment in time.

It is already enough for this moment in time. Sure you've got your dreams. You'll expand and you'll grow and you'll keep working towards the. those. But just because you're not there yet doesn't mean you're not already enough because you've come a long way from where you were and that deserves some acknowledgement and that that's a really nice way to be kind to yourself. You are enough. I love it. I can't wait to get this convoy out to my folks. So I appreciate you taking the time to hang out from the other side of the world with all the madness and craziness and hey, I'm super appreciative. I'm super appreciating.

appreciative. Oh, it's been my pleasure, Eddie. You're a lovely host, and thank you for the work that you're giving out to the world as well. Thank you so much for the time we've shared. Back at you. And real quick, before I let you go, is there something that I know you have a nonfiction or a fiction coming up that might be too early to point people to? But people that hear you and want to follow what you're doing, where can they find you? Yeah, sure. It's bronyware.com. So it's brony like with an R in it, Brony. Brony. We're like in Warehouse, W-A-R-A-R-E. Bruneyware.com. I've got books and courses there. And yeah, you can come and get to know me there. Lots of free resources as well.

Perfect. Thank you, Brony. Thank you.