You're Dead to Me - Henry Cyril Paget: the dancing marquess of Anglesey

Episode Date: September 18, 2026

Greg Jenner is joined by Professor Viv Gardner and comedian Morgan Rees in 19th-century Wales to learn about the fabulous, theatrical life of Henry Cyril Paget. Born into an important aristocratic family – his ancestor had been Wellington’s second-in-command at Waterloo – Henry had a very different approach to his wealth and social status. After a childhood spent in Paris, he moved to Anglesey, and after inheriting his title and fortune, set about spending it on his passions: jewels, clothes and the theatre. He remodelled the family home, Plas Newydd, renaming it Anglesey Castle and making it the home of his theatre troupe. But after just a few years he was bankrupt, and forced to auction off many of his extravagant possessions. This episode explores his fabulous life, taking in his difficult relationship with his father, his brief marriage and questions about his sexuality, and just what he blew his enormous fortune on, before his tragic early death. If you’re a fan of fabulous theatrical performances, forgotten queer figures from history, and past gossip and scandals, you’ll love our episode on Henry Paget, the dancing marquess of Anglesey. If you want more performers from history, we’ve got episodes on Sarah Bernhardt and Josephine Baker. And for more LGBTQ biographies, check out our episode on Philippe, duc D’Orleans. You’re Dead To Me is the comedy podcast that takes history seriously. Every episode, Greg Jenner brings together the best names in history and comedy to learn and laugh about the past. Hosted by: Greg Jenner Research by: Lily Tidman Written by: Lily Tidman, Dr Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow, Dr Emma Nagouse, and Greg Jenner Produced by: Dr Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow and Greg Jenner Audio Producer: Steve Hankey Production Coordinator: Gill Huggett Senior Producer: Dr Emma Nagouse Executive Editor: Philip Sellars

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello and welcome to You're Dead to Me. We are the Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. My name's Greg Jenner. I'm a public historian, author and broadcaster. And today we are donning our sable coats, grasping our bejeweled walking sticks, and boarding our train-shaped car,

all the way back to the 19th century, to Wales, to learn all about Henry Cyril Padgett, the 5th, Marquess of Anglesea. And to help us unravel facts from fiction in a very glamorous way, we have two very fabulous guests. In History Corner, she's Emeritus Professor of Drama, a University of Manchester, where her research focuses on gender, sexuality and performance in the late 19th and early 20th century. She's acted as historical consultant on a variety of stage shows about Henry Padgett's life

and is currently writing his biography, titled The Dancing Marquess. It is Professor Viv Gardner. Welcome Viv. Hello, Craig and Helen Morgan. I'm really pleased to be here. You're talking about my favourite man. And in Comedy Corner He's a comedian, writer and a rising star on the UK comedy circuit He's written for loads of TV and radio shows

Including 8 out of 10 cats Mock the Week, News Jack Maybe you've seen one of his hilarious stand-up shows By and Large or Turning Thirsty Or listen to one of his podcasts You've got chatting with cherubs And My Bad It's Morgan Reese, welcome Morgan

Hello, thank you so much to have me, everyone Delighted to have you in This is a first time on the pod Yeah, I know, I'm over the moon So contractually, I have to ask, do you like history? Love a bit of history. I just wish I remembered it. It's just, I think everyone's brain is adhesive to a certain topic.

You can just hear it once and you'll stick forever. Unfortunately, mine's jokes and I wish it was history. Well, jokes and mathematics, you were telling us before. You're a mathematician. Yes, before I did this, I was a mathematician. Right. And I spoke of music and drama and theatre. I had the reverse Billy Elliott experience

when I went to, my parents were like, go and do music and drama, do music. I was like, no, I got to do maths, mum. There's no... I had a proper reverse one. That's great. And you grew up in South Wales. South Wales, just merfitted, yeah.

Okay, and today we're talking about a North Wales icon. Am I allowed to storm out? Yeah. Is there some beef? No, there's no beef in thought. Do you know anything about Henry Cyril Padgett? Sometimes just known as Henry Padgett. Other than the top level stuff, being a flamboying Welsh person, that's all I know.

Yes. A little peek behind the curtain when I got the email about doing this wonderful show, it was advised. You quite like when the comedian doesn't do any research. I was like, I can do that. Thank you for your effort. So what do you know? This is the so what do you know. This is where I have a go at guessing what you, our lovely listener or viewer, hello.

what you might know about today's subject and maybe like Morgan there may be a bit of name recognition here but not a lot. You might have seen the recent film Mad Fabulous starring Rupert Everett and It's Asin's Callum Scott Howells. You may have seen the exhibit of the film's costumes which are at the Asna Cinema.

Maybe you saw Cyriel Davis's musical inspired by Paget's life, how to win against history and those of you familiar with North Wales might have visited Henry Paget's actual home, the lovely Plasneueth, which is now a National Trust property. It's a lovely day out. And it's got an exhibition on at the moment, centred around the

costumes and his clothes. Well, there we go. Brilliant. But how much did the film and play get right about this man? How did Henry Padgett become known as the Dancing Marquis? What a name. And how many pairs of gloves can one man own? Let's find out. Right. We'll start before Henry Cyril Padgett's birth. Morgan, we've said he's the fifth Marcus of Anglesey. What do you think his family did to earn their title? How do you think the first Marquis got the gig? Oh, okay. I'm going to say, and are going to sound immensely Welsh, is it coal?

Is it something to do with one of the three things we did? I think we can say more military? Yes and no, because their main house, the family seat was in Bo D' D'Eazer, which is on Canuck Chase and most of their money, from the coal. That was from journey. I don't think they did any digging or

anything remotely like investing in it. They just took the money. But the first Marcus of Anglsy was they were already aristocratic. They'd already got titles, but he was the hero of Waterloo and he was granted the Marquis

which is number two down in the ranking of British hierarchy. So he was pushed up to Marquis when he led a charge at the Battle of Waterloo and he lost his leg famously he said something like oh my goodness I've lost my leg

and Wellington said by God sir so you have but that mayn't be an important but he's actually it's very interesting he became one of the first owners of prosthetic leg and you can see his prosthetic legs in Plasnowwith now and they are

amazing polished wooden legs with full articulation. They're called Anglesey legs, aren't they? They're called Anglesey legs. Are they really? Wow. I've heard of Welshman's thigh, but I've never heard of Anglesey legs. No.

But I have to say that subsequent Marquises, the second, third and fourth, were something less heroic and something less heroic. They had to do what you have to do if you're a Marquist. You have to be the commander-in-chief of the Staffordshire Light Infantry or something like that. But they weren't very military, and they had a certain reputation, particularly the fourth Marquis, for stealing other men's wives. So there's a lot of – there's actually a remarkable number of divorce cases.

So after the First Marquis, the military genius becomes less and less evident. Henry Cyril's father was living the life of old Riley as a younger son so he gets an income from the estate but he does no responsibilities he's living in Paris where what he seems to do is horse racing possibly a bit of gambling and eating in restaurants he has absolutely no connection with the French as far as we can see because he didn't actually speak any French and he didn't like talking to French people nor did he like going to the theatre or to

art galleries or anything like that. His second wife was Blanche Boyd, who was the daughter of Australian, Scottish-Australian entrepreneurs who'd made their fortune in Australia, in the gold mines and various other enterprises. Come back to Europe, bringing your family with you so that they could get culture and stuff like that. And they settled in Paris on the Champs-Eil-Lise. And they married in 18. 173, Henry Cyril was born in 1875, but in London. The marriage lasted a very short time after that. They

appeared to have separated sometime shortly after the birth, and Blanche died when Henry Cyril was two, probably from suicide. And Henry Cyril's father inherited the title rather unexpectedly in 1880 and became the fourth marquis of Anglesey. So it's quite a lot for young Henry Cyril Paget to live up to before he's even born. His sort of ancestor is a kind of hero of battle. Yes. And then his dad and granddad are not heroes. No, by the sounds of thing, it sounds like they're invading other people's marriages. About the foreign countries. Yes. Yes. Charging headlong into someone else's bed. Yeah. Okay, so it's quite an interesting start to life for our little Henry. Henry Cyril. Are we calling Henry Cyril? It makes it easier because absolutely all of them were called Henry. Of course they

know. Most of them were called Henry William. Right. So there's quite a lot of sadness and instability here in our little boy's life already because dad's a player. Yes. Clearly dating various women and then unfortunately little Henry loses his mother. So what do you imagine the childhood's like in that situation of a little Henry Cyril with his dad oh my god it was oh to be honest the overtones and the end of tones are tragic isn't it there's no stability there there's and I back then growing up with no matriarchal figure as well oh he did have a matriarchal figure in his life no he she's actually written out of almost all the histories She was Blanche's sister, her older sister, Edith,

and she took care of the boy from the age of two when Blanche died and took him into the household where she lived with his grandparents in Paris on the Chonseilise. So we're talking centre of Paris, centre of the social circle. So for at least that beginning he was raised in a house where he had a mum. maternal figure and she was she's with him throughout his life yeah she's there for him and she's there at his death and he grows up speaking french english and russian oh wow i i i know people must say this all the time but i can just get my head around english isn't it have you ever heard when someone speaks english as a second language and you just go like you know way more

about grammar you know way more about sentence i've just been copying my parents. So he speaks French, English and Russian, and when he gets to Anglesey, what do you think he learns next? Oh, please say Welsh. Yes, thank you. Oh, good on him.

Yeah. So he's multilingual. He's learning Welsh. Yes, apparently he learned Welsh from a child. Apparently this was an idea that came from his father, though. Yes, and what level of Welsh he spoke, I don't know. Oh, fair. But he certainly had a reputation.

as having enough Welsh? Is he having formal Welsh lessons or is he down the pub learning it from, you know, you know, from miners and from... It could be. It's a long way to the nearest pub from the class knowing. It's a cellar full of wine, Mark, you say... I've got a tiny minute of a story,

and I'll keep this as radio four appropriate as possible. I'm learning Hindi for my partner's Indian, and I've learned a bit of Hindi from his dad, but I thought it was his mom goes down every morning and does a prayer that by to a shine she says Jesse Krishna and all that sort of stuff and her father does another thing

where he puts an offering in a jar and says presumably another little prayer I don't know anything about Hinduism so I guess that's what the women do and that's what the men do so I put an offering in the jar and I said what he said

I didn't realize it was a swear jar It was something he did when he got angry So I inadvertently learnt a swear in Indy That's the best way, isn't it? Fantastic So I don't know whether Henry did something similar down the pub He might be picking up some choice language from the locals He knows

So he goes to private school in England He then goes to Eaton for a bit Yes, I mean the private school appears to have been very short period and Eaton was probably even shorter. It was a couple of terms. Wow. And he obviously had health problems

right from the word go, but he couldn't hack it at Eaton, which was actually very sporty then. Yeah, it was run by a sporty headditch. You're trying to sort of create the future leaders of the empire, aren't you? It's all about muscular Christianity. So he managed a couple of terms.

He does go back to Anglesey. This sort of Parisian theatre kid what does he do next what's the next step on the ladder I'm just going to try and project me when I was when I was just finishing term I had to go back home while I

was kicking and screaming if I was honest with you but if I want to did he did he join a local Amdram? Oh lovely he did this sort of opposite although there is some makeup espose

in that you put cameo on he joined the army did he yes That's that sort of army. Well, we say he joined the army. The Royal Welsh Fusiliers, which is a volunteer. And it's, I mean, it's actually a very big one, apparently. And it's pretty prestigious, and it obviously had a lot of volunteers from all classes. But the only evidence you have of any activity whilst Henry Cyril was in it is the theatricals that he did with various other people.

And there are accounts of, you know, some of them were. for charity, but he did, for example, a sketch with a man called Rowecroft, and I think we'll come to Rokroft later on, who was his tutor in which Rokroft played King Lear. This is obviously a, you know, a satire of some sort of, a comic sketch that you might appeal to you. So Rokroft plays King Lear and an 18-year-old, Henry Siddler is playing Cordelia. Oh, there we go. Wow. So he's in the army and he's doing it. drag straight away. Yeah, good on him. Go, girl. And there's quite

a lot of examples of these sort of sketches, which they're doing in local halls and stuff like that. And that's the only evidence of any activity within the Royal Welsh Fusiliars, except that he quite like uniforms. And there's a picture of him in a uniform, which may or may not

be the fuseliers, but he's got these wonderful, pointy fingernails. Oh, really? I mean, would the military life appeal to you if you could design your own uniform and have the nails I don't know. I wish I could have the nails. There was a weapon in the way.

I forgot my bayonet. But I tell you what, sometimes I do, like, do you ever go like, oh, God, choosing dinner, choosing lunch, choosing this, what's a way. God, I wish someone could choose that for me. Wait a minute, the army. I have to make no decisions. It's scrambled egg for breakfast. It's whatever they have for lunch.

But would I appeal to... being in the army. I don't know. I mean, the theatrical division sounds good. You know, the Luffy's Brigade. Yeah, that was called. That's what I'm calling it. I don't know what they call it. And then in 1890, I suppose he does the thing that you have to do, as a young man in the aristocracy, he gets married.

Oh, okay. Now, who's he marrying, Morgan? Oh, well, he's going to choose a proper local Welsh kid. Oh, okay. He's going to try and... No doubt. No? Well, you think he should just pop down to the local... social club and just picked out a lovely little glass.

Yeah, he's going to... No, he's probably going to be in a range marriage of some sort, is it? Yes. Yes. And more than the range marriage, it's a cousin, right? It's a cousin, but that was very common because you keep it all in the family that way. You know, any property, anything. They have the Chetwin's...

Her name was Lillian Chetwin, and that family was short of money and didn't have the same range property. So you marry into an aristocracy which has everything that you want. And it was a fabulous society wedding, massively reported in the Tatler and everywhere else. And he gave her vast quantities of jewels.

I mean, they're sort of listed in the newspapers. I mean, excessive a number of jewels. And his going away outfit was in green, which is interesting. Lovely. Yeah. Do we know what fabric? Probably silk. Probably silk.

I mean, most of his stuff was silk. Lovely. And probably designed and made in Paris. So you say cousin, so her mum, Lillian's mum, was Henry Cyril's dad's half-sister. Yeah. Oh, okay. I guess when you marry a cousin,

it sort of saves you having to do the whole getting to know you thing, isn't it? Sure. Have you met? Oh, you have met? Oh, great. You may not have met, actually. I mean, the family tree is so spread and so complicated.

that they may never have met. I got cousins in my family that married and there's little peep behind the curtain and they won't be listened to this. It's too academic. But when they got married, they couldn't have it in a church. Why couldn't they have it in a church?

Because you can't marry cousins under church law? No, because there's an aisle and obviously you know both of them. Oh, I see. Which side of the aisle you're on? Both are. We can't stand in the middle. One of the other things is that Lillian was a Catholic.

That's either of the family. So it's Catholics marrying Protestants. Yes, that's quite untraditional. That's untraditional. So this is 1898. So right at the end of the century. And you said about the jewels, just the same. I mean, the Litchfield Mercury newspaper had a souvenir edition.

There are 53 lines of text describing the jewels. There's some serious bling that she's getting. Yeah. Rumour spreads that the... the wedding night involves these jewels in a way that is not sordid, but not traditional. Not traditional. He's supposed to have covered her body with jewels

and then just looked. I have to say this comes as a story from a family member, a descendant, who says in one part of his book, my grandmother did not talk at all about her marriage to Henry Cyril. And then you have this story, a very explicit story. story about a wedding night and you think, isn't there some contradiction there? Yes. So it, who knows whether, what truth there was? But they were also supposed, and this

is probably much more like, they've honeymooned in Paris and in the window of this top end, high-end, um, jewelers, she was admiring, you know, one piece. So the story goes that he bought the lot and gave it to her. And those are the jewels that he is supposed to have laid out on her body. I mean, he's a generous lover. I know. I know. my partner can never, ever listen to this. I don't want them getting any ideas. I mean, sadly, or perhaps not sadly,

I don't know how to feel about it. The marriage does not last. Perhaps the clue is in the wedding night, sort of, you know, maybe there isn't the... Yeah, I think they went down to the south of France, and his behaviour was, I think, an embarrassment, one of the memoirs that talks about it,

it says. And she left, There was a ball they were at, and something went on. We don't know what. But she left and shortly after that, I think she returned to England. So, yes, give it six months. Right. And the marriage was a null.

So it's not a divorce, it's an annulment. Yeah, she applied for an annulment in 1900. An annulment is, because all divorce proceedings are held in private. especially because it involves aristocracy. So you don't want any black sheep, dirty linen. However, the announcement that there is an annulment means that everybody knows that the only grounds for annulment is if it hasn't been consummated.

And she went to the doctor to prove that she was Virgo-intacta. He refused to go to the doctor to sort out whether it was a dysfunction of his organs of regeneration. or some other... That's not even for the notes of the end. Incredible. The divorce papers are brilliant reading. Yeah.

Divorce papers are wonderful reading. Disfunction of the organs of reproduction. I mean, I know we shouldn't, but how brilliant would it be if we still had the divorce section in the papers? I think it still would be. What happens when you go to the doctor to prove or not? Absolutely.

Yes. The functioning of your organs of reproduction. I mean, in medieval times, they made that sort of public. Like, you had to demonstrate that everything was working. They had to demonstrate it. Yeah, medieval times, they'd test. But is it like a public gallery? Well, they'd bring in a, they'd bring in someone to check.

Is it all working downstairs? Now, this is obviously the late 19th century. This is from 1900, isn't it? But it is, I mean, in the sense, there's something, it is, therefore becomes public knowledge stroke gossip. Yeah. Because an annulment means non-consumation. Yeah.

You know. Which hints towards. Hins towards sexuality, you know, that is at this point is deeply scandalous and illegal, or at least bordering on. Yes. This is an era of, I mean, there's a scandal of Oscar Wilde. So do we find our Henry getting caught up in that scandal, in that danger? In the few months before Oscar Wilde sued the Marquis of Queensbury, when the Marquis of Queensbury left a note at Wilde's club, accusing him of being a sodomite, and Wilde sued him for libel.

This had happened with the Marquis of Anglesey and Henry Cyril's tutor, a man called Roecroft, about three months before. So Roecroft sued the Marcus of Anglese for libel for having accused him of gross immorality. That's a variation on gross indecency, which is the legal term. and it goes as far as court and then in the ante room to the court an arrangement has come to and the Marquis of Anglese

has to give in and pays Rowecroft off but Rokroft disappears at this point and so does the Marquis the Marquess's son so does Henry Cyril he goes off to France so obviously some sort of crisis

happened around an accusation of homosexuality in 1895 there's some sort of split between the father and the son at that point that was not reconciled before his death. Right.

So the marriage doesn't survive and in fairness, his dad's marriages haven't survived so maybe he's just carrying the family tradition. Yeah, you know. He hadn't gotten in a good role model. Exactly, right? You're just, you know, you copy what you see.

There's also, historically we tend to read this, we tend to read sexuality as gay, but there might be a love child. Yes. he was very fond of children he adopted a child he adopted a young

toddler but there is a rumor that only emerged in the last four or five years about a possible love child with one of the actress who had been his co-star

yummy yum to his Prince Pico timing is very accurate and there's a lot of suggestion that he, this might very well be his love child and the descendants who are now in Canada. So maybe a bi icon, a bi icon. Yeah, possibly. Is this going to be a reveal and it's me? Is this, am I a descendant? Is this what's going to happen? You're actually the sixth Marquis of emergency. Congratulations. Okay, I can't wait. As far as yours. It's all yours.

Take it back off the national trust. I mean, I feel such an affinity to this character. If it turns out I'm a descendant, then I can't wait to wear those jewels and play my birthright. Absolutely. So the dad does die. The fourth Marquis died, which meant that our Henry Cyril becomes the fifth Marquis. He actually gets three more titles on top of that. So upon the death of his dad, he inherits four titles, one of whom is Marquis. That's number two in the ranking.

What are the other three? You can have a little guess it. I mean, you won't get him, but have a go. Oh, what do I know about titles? Yeah, go on. If I say Duke is top of the tree Duke, so he's not a Duke because the highest is Marquis. So go lower

the Marquis. What else do you know about the aristocracy of Britain? Oh, zero. This is when a little bit of research would have done great. Does he become an earl? He does. Very good. So he's the Earl of Uxbridge. He's got two more.

I wasn't to say Yarl, but I think that's Vikings, isn't it? Yol is Anglo-Saxon. That's excellent. Very good. Yes, he's not a Yarl. No. Okay, third one. Do they become a general? Oh, very good. No, it's not. But I love the idea of him being instantly promoted.

Instantly promoted. Yeah, Brigadier General. No, he's a baronet and a baron. Yep. Which makes him sound like a villain in a gothic novel. So he inherits all these titles simultaneously, which brings wealth and power and prestige and significant. He is a very significant man now in the British aristocracy.

Yes, yes. and he does not engage in any way at all with the duties associated with being a member of the aristocracy. So he's no political interest, no, like his father. What would those duties be? Oh, attending the House of Lords. I mean, there's no record of either his father or him ever, ever having gone to London attending the House of Lords voting,

doing anything for the state, or you could become part of the Royal House. old, you know, but nothing, no, none of that. Oh, wow. What would you, if you inherited that level of status, would you, you know, take it, take this seriously or? Oh, I would, but I'm such a rule follower. I think I would love to go.

Okay, so you take it seriously. Are Henry, the Cyril, the Marquis, doesn't really take it seriously. What does he do with his extraordinary wealth? Okay. Well, the first thing he did was to sell. his father's Gascoen hunting hounds. Obviously hunting dogs were not his thing. He was more into chihuahuas and bozoys and pretty dogs.

He set about, well, I mean he continued, but on a larger and larger scale, to indulge his passions for jewelry, for new technologies. He had every gramophone plus all the rec discs that you could have, pianolas, all of that sort of thing. And obviously theatricals, you know, he put money into his performances. Which is lovely, nice if you got it.

So he sells his dad's dogs. Yeah. Which feels like, I don't know, it feels like some sort of message that the Cosmas is like, I don't need these. Yes, a bit of a slap in the face, isn't it? Like, I'm going to take, because they say, like, dogs are a man's best friend. And they're just going, I'm selling my dad's best friends. Yep.

Absolutely. And I'm replacing them with a chihuahua. And he's also got a French bulldog, doesn't he? He has a French bulldog, which he brings over from America. But he hasn't bothered with the licence or anything like that, so he gets fined. But fine to him is obviously nothing. Yeah, he's fined, which at the time is a lot of money. And to him is like pennies, because he's a Marquis. Okay, so he's got on this money.

He's going to spend it, as you said, on theatricals, on jewels, on clothes. It's in modern money, what are we talking? Millions? Millions. Millions. Tenes of millions. His income was 110,000 pounds a year. Wow. Okay. Which is like, I think it's between 12 and 15 million million. We typically multiply by 10 to 15, don't we, for a century ago. So, I mean, yeah, 15 million quid a year. So that's his income. That's his income. So their credit, though, at least they're spending the money. Yeah. You know, some people just sit on it and that money just gets out the system. But they're like, have it, have it, have it.

I bet the people around him were loving it. I was going to ask, what do you think the local community makes of him? I bet they think he's an eccentric, but at least he's spending money. I think you're right. He does sort of patronise local businesses. Yes, he patronised local businesses, as well as, you know, all the great jewelers across Europe,

maybe in Paris. So he engages with the local community in a way that produces a lot of genuine affection for him. Oh, good for him? Yeah. Okay, well that's nice. And he pops on, do you know what a tableau vivant is?

Have you ever heard of a tableau vivant? Tablo divant, no, no at all. I mean, how would we describe it for the listeners? You create a very elaborate reproduction of, say, a famous painting. Yes. And lights out, lights up, and there's this

precise reproduction of the painting. And that then music is played underneath. it and the test is actually to be able to hold absolutely frozen and then the lights out and you do a sequence of them and they did you know they did things you know famous paintings but they also did birds custard powder which was a new thing and it's two figure you know the advertising campaign was two chefs one who was the classic who made it from custard from eggs and the other one was the newbie who made it from birds' custard powder. And they did apparently,

they did a table vivant of the bird's custard powder. So you and your mates, the lights come up and you all hold the pose. Sort of perfect reconstruction of a painting. Lights go down, lights come up, and you've got a whole new painting. You've done a whole new...

He goes on tour with his money. He doesn't go back to Paris. No. He goes to the new party city of Dresden. Dresden, yeah. He didn't actually go on tour. Okay, it's not. No, he didn't go on to him.

He just took himself there, had a long, spent a long time in Dresden. And he then paid the local theatre owner, new theatre just opened. He paid a man called Humboldt Mao to allow him to appear on the stage and perform to do one of the new sort of skirt dances that had grown through the 1890s,

where he's wearing, white silk tunic, and he moves. You don't actually move your feet, but you move the upper part of your body. And projecting onto this were pictures of the German royal family. Onto his skirt? On to this skirt, which you wave around and, you know, these images, you fold out, fold out, and a new image comes on. And he also paid for his friends to come to the theatre

and to sit in the boxes and things like that and present him with flowers. I mean, if you had that money, would you plant your friends in all your gigs and just have them throwing roses at you? Of course I would. You're kidding. I never have to win anyone over again.

Yeah, exactly. Every room is just a warm, lovely, welcoming room. But the problem was that he never got asked back. I think the German audiences were, I think, in one sense, very bemused by what this was all about. Yes. And there's some really wonderful commentaries in the German newspapers about this. The English ones were quite, you know, said, oh, wasn't it wonderful? Santoy, which is what he called himself, was great.

That's his stage name, Santoy. At this stage, it was. So he's got a stage name? He's not the markers, he's Santoy. Santoy. I mean, some of the clothes and out. outfits that he is wearing, Henry Cyril, he is wearing, he's got a pale pink suit, he's got stripy underpants, he's got silk ping pong uniform. Yes, yes. I mean, when you see the

photographs off him outside, he's wearing what we would see as dandy dress, beautiful, tailored suits. Apparently one of these was pink, but there's no real sense that he wore those in public, but he's always immaculately dressed. But he does have, when they have to sell everything that he owned. He does have the lists are endless. He had, I think it's 56 what we, they called smoking suits which were silk

suits which you just wore in your, you know, your domestic when you're at home, at leisure. And they are brilliant, they call the, they're in every single colour in the world. And the purple underpants are on display

in the National Museum of Scotland. They're striped. and they're made in Paris and they're rather wonderful. I mean, who wouldn't want purple underpants? Absolutely. I'm wearing purple underpants right now.

It's completely purple. I am. I am. So, I mean, these are extraordinary looks. I mean, could you get away with that walking down Merthetitifal High Street? Oh, everything goes in Murthetton for High Street. I don't know what that's,

it's a lot more inclusive than you think because if you start being exclusive, no one's allowed there. It was a wonderful place. I love the idea of, I've always liked the idea of smoking suits because it just makes me think of if we had that today, is there vaping suits? Yes. And what would they be?

Yeah, vaping pajamas or something. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Ever wondered what you would do if you found yourself lost in the wild? If disaster struck, would you make the right decisions to stay alive? Real survival stories from the Noiser podcast network brings you astonishing tales of ordinary people thrust into extraordinary situations. It's the biggest tiger shark I've ever seen in my life.

So I just swam. I just swam and swam as fast as I could. I realize those two parachutes tied up together is what a dead man sees. I am not going to survive. Real survival stories. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts. And so Anglesey Castle becomes a kind of locust for the community to come and hang out. I mean, he sort of opens the castle up.

He invited them not into the castle itself. But he had sports days, he had fancy dress parties where you would, you know. So they had competitions, cycling competitions where they have to light a cigarette, cycle all the way across the estate, and then have the cigarette lit at the end. That's the winner. I wish we did more things like that rather than fastest, quickest, 400 metres. Imagine that if it was an Olympic event. Oh my God, we're doing the 20-mile bridge.

sprint. Famously, he had lots of cars. Of course he does. Cars are kind of brand new, so he's got plenty. What flavour does he perfume the exhaust pipe? Oh, tell you what, don't know anything about titles. Don't know much about sense either. I don't have a sense of smell. It's a bit of a, yeah, I got a bit of a loony tune. I got hit on the head as a kid and I lost it.

Oh, no, no. So I'm going to have to go with, what? My partner love lavender. It is lavender. Oh, really? You see, I don't think it is lavender. I think that's just a story. Oh.

I think, because lavender is too earthy and beautiful and nice, soft. Petulie. Because Petulie, he had apparently Petulie scented programs for his shows. Right, okay. And Petulie's got that sort of exotic. And we know he had bottles of the latest in male perfumes. And I think it's much more likely to be. But you can't put scent in an exhaust.

I've checked with Hughley. I've checked with Hughley. And they sounded a little confused at my question. But they said, no, of course you can't. But of course, he probably sprayed the inside of his cars, particularly that Pullman Morse that he had, which is built like a railway carriage. Yeah.

Hence my opening joke about him driving a kind of railway-shaped car, right? So the rumour is lavender. You think petulie, but it's fragrant driving. You know, it's delicious. It's a, you know. That's a challenge in the countryside of the best of times. Well, I was going to say,

if you drive through parts of Wales, sometimes the fragrance is slightly more animal. I was just been driving through Wales literally this weekend. I always thought it when you're driving with another person in the countryside, there's always that awkward moment you've got to go, it's the fields. It's not me.

It's the cattle. It's the manure. He sets up his own theatre at the Anglesey Castle, as he's renamed it, and he steals a theatre company. He steals the theatre company. Yes. There's this sort of probably third rate.

They were not making their money. Theatre company touring with a production called The Music Hall Girl. And the actresses in one place had had to pawn their jewels in order to pay for the cost of the theatre. They rock up to Llandidno and are playing there. And he does what many aristocrats do, which is invite them to perform in the gaiety theatre, which is his refurbished theatre which he has brought electricity in and all sorts of wonderful things

and it's the most beautiful Bijou little 150-seater theatre there are images of it that are fabulous so this company come and do the musical girl there and he decides that he will offer Alex Keith who is the manager and Julie Kent who is the star an inordinate amount of

money in order to come and be his theatre company. Great, isn't it? It's a personal theatre company. A personal theatre company. What would you have and perform for you? Ooh, I'd give them difficult stuff, I'd do like Breaking Bad. Oh, okay.

Entire HBO shows, yeah. I think they'd love the challenge of that, and I'd love to go like, oh, you played a Mexican gangster last week, now you're Skylar. And would you play Walter White? Would you be No, I'm, I tell you what, as a before, I'm, I'm, it's going to sound a bit egotistical.

I'm, I've worked really hard at being a good performer. I'm, I think I'm a great performer. I'm a blinking, amazing punter. I am such a good audience member. Love it. I can sit back and enjoy it all. A complete reverse of the Marquist, I'm afraid. I don't actually think he, I mean, Alex Keith, when he died, called him a perfectly good

actor, which is sort of understatement. That's sort of damning with faint praise, isn't it? Damning with faint praise. And there's no record of him actually being in an audience. So he's stolen a theatre company, but he wants to be the star. He wants to be the star. Okay, all right. It reminds me that 90s anti-piracy advert.

You wouldn't steal a handbag, he wouldn't steal a car, you wouldn't steal an itinerant theatre troupe. Yeah, completely. It's sort of great, isn't it? Because that advert never made sense, did it? You wouldn't steal the handbag, you would sue the car. You're just like, Yeah, if you wanted a handbag or a guy would do it. I think it's going to more piracy.

And you knew how to do it, yeah. So he's got his theatre trumpet company there. He also does, he goes on tour a bit with him too, doesn't he plays in Lichfield. He plays in Lemberton Spy. He plays in Lundit Nau. He does, to a very limited extent. He's going, he's 150 seat of theatre. So he can go to Lunditno.

And he plays in a hall there. He doesn't play in a theatre theatre. Litchfield, he plays, again, in a hall. And it's only right with the last. production that he did, which was of Oscar Wilde's an ideal husband, that it went on tour properly. And that was playing proper theatres, i.e., you know, two and three thousand seat theatres,

and I think he managed four places. Basically, you know, you move from 150-seater, local audience that loves you, and you go to Boscombe, 3,000-seat theatre, and maybe your voice isn't up to it. Maybe the audience doesn't love you in exactly the same way. Okay, so he's playing 150-seater venues, which is cute. Cute, yeah.

But maybe he's not quite cut up for it. You open Praselli Town Hall. Yes, okay. New Town Hall, he takes a little version of Aladdin there. And he has an iconic dance as well that he does called the butterfly dance. Would you like to demonstrate for us what you think that should look like? Okay, for the listeners, it would be atrocious? It's going to be an awkward

I'm going to do it for half hour by the way for the camera room So the butterfly I'm assuming I'm trying to not to hit all the things on the side Up and down I'm swinging I'm up I'm swinging on the wrist Fabric on the wrists I think is swirling up

swirling down I think he's not doing anything with his face It's their version of Vogan I hear So it's just big flailing arms Head straight on It's not far off He had ones that extended so that you make your wings even greater.

Oh, he's even bigger than that. The big thing is that you project colours on it. So you have limelight and two limelight men to project. And he also had, I don't know quite how it worked because the stage was very small. A glass floor. This is from Lowy Fuller, the great innovative dance, Lowy Fuller, glass floor,

which you project light from underneath as well. So as you're moving around your arms and waving them around and the silk, it catches the light and the changing lights. And he also had a, we know, he did a dance, the electric dance where he had probably little light bulbs all over him and, you know, all sorts of dances to do with nature. Amazing.

The Fish King dance, not quite sure what that one's about. Okay, so that's why he's called the Dancing Marquess. That's why he's called the Dancing Marquess. He's a Dancing Marquess. Every performance he would be. Clues in the name. Yeah, I just sound. because I'm writing a show at the moment

and saw this autumn and it's kind of really admirable is the wrong way it's inspiring to know even just back then someone is trying to bring something different to write at the moment where we just do shows it's lights up, lights down this person is

incorporating different lights how can I incorporate different feelings with these lights we don't even do that now for a lot of performances this brand new technology he's really innovating and he's got his silky ping pong uniform He's got his purple underpants and he's got his butterfly costume. You know, he's a sort of one-man industry, isn't it?

He's sort of keeping tailors in, you know, in all sorts of... What keeping tailors except he's not paying them? Ah, right. That's next to my script, actually, Viv. Sorry. We basically, he runs out of money. The man on 15 million quid a year runs out of money in 1904 and we get the Anglesey great sales

where he has to start selling some stuff to pay the bills. Just, you know, tell us... He, well, basically, he is insolvent. Because aristocrats don't go bankrupt because that involves selling the entailed property So that's not classy. That's not classy and they have a way of protecting themselves. So everything that he owned

and that included all the things in the house including the cooking pots and stuff like that and his whole wardrobe and his cars had to be sold and the sales lasted from July 1904 through to December 1904. So the theatre is dismantled. And there's this wonderful scene where there's a marquee outside and they are parceling through the windows of the house

and taking them stuff to the market, all of his clothing. And there's descriptions of the audience. These were the most popular of the sales. And people came for the spectacle as much as they came to buy anything. I've got a list here of the things that are on sale. I don't know if any of these appeal to you, Morgan. Okay, so he's selling his parrot, Jacko, who is a multilingual parrot, speaks French, Welsh, English and Russian. Oh, that's amazing.

And apparently swears in them. Yes. That's the other story. We had, I know it sounds like I'm trying to, we had a swear. We had a swear in parrot. Oh. Yeah, my, you can literally show you on my phone. My nann's called Nanny Parrot. And she used to, I remember she always used to go, oh, she's listening to, oh, why can the parrot swear? She goes to the radio. I was like, what are you listening to? Amazing. You've got to have a sweary parrot.

So he's selling his sweary parrot. He's selling his silky ping pong uniform. He's selling his bedewed walking sticks, furniture, ice skates, mink coat with 20 heads, various pianos and pianolas, various little dogs in their beautiful jackets with Henry's insignia sewn into the jackets,

500 pairs of gloves, four cannons, obviously, 1,000 photos of himself and his friends, and the auctioneer's assistant, Jerry, modelled all of the clothes so people could see what they look like. So what would you buy it,

auction. Oh, I mean, the thousand photos of yourself, I mean, it was well ahead of his time. That's everyone nowadays, isn't it? That's our kind of camera reel, isn't it? A thousand photos of us in all our outfits. He pretty much just had his, he had his Instagram printed out, didn't he? He did. I would, I mean, personally, I would buy the silky ping pong uniform. I would buy the little dog outfits. I look after a little toy poodle and I think my partner, the wood melt into a puddle. Yeah. Viv, what would you buy?

I would buy the cooking pots. Very practical. I'm sorry. I'm very practical. That's fine. That's fine. I'm not interested in the walking sticks and the waistcoats and things like that.

And obviously... And the chocolate. There was a lot of chocolate. Oh, of course it was. For breakfast. Of course. Yeah. For breakfast chocolate.

Of course, a parrot, you could teach you to podcast. I wouldn't need to do this gig. I just get the jacko the parrot in. Just get it to do my life. for me. He'd be all in Russian, but other than that. Yeah. Welcome to you're going to be.

You know, it'd be great. So the insolvency sales, do they turn Henry's fortunes around? Does he clear his debts? No, no. So he's... No, because, I mean, a lot of things sell for underpriced, you know. The amount that he got for that Pullman car, the Morse, was derisery compared to how much it had cost.

And then the man gave it back because it didn't do quite the mileage that he thought he was. Because there's lavender in the engine. Because there's lavender in the engine, yeah. So no. And they calculated that if the Marquist lived till 1911, he would, the debts would be paid off. But they weren't through the sales because of the income was, his annual income was going to pay off debts as well.

But the sales didn't. And he doesn't live to 1911. The tragedy here is he dies in 1905. Yeah. Age 29. Oh. It's really young. It's such a young.

It's extraordinarily young, but also it's just, it's so tragic, isn't it? Because this is clearly someone who's living his life to his fall. Oh yeah, completely. It doesn't sound like someone that was done. No. It's 29. I didn't even know who I was at 29. I know, exactly.

He never had a chance to have his 30-year, 30s mid-life crisis. You imagine his 30th birthday, the bash. He'd had his life crisis when his income was reduced from 110,000. pounds a year to 3,000. Oh, that's it. Okay. And so he was reduced to basically, I think he had one personal

servant and the nanny for his little girl that he'd adopted. And basically that was it. And his private secretary, of course. So what happened to the family then? Viva, what happens to the castle? What happens to all his stuff? He's dead. His stuff is gone.

Right. And the title is inherited. by his cousin who is, I think, 19 at this point, and is at Sandhurst, training to be a soldier. Okay, so a proper, a last. A proper. Yeah, I know, but he only, I think he did a year more. I think probably, you know,

and there's plenty of stories about the sixth markers. Okay. So, yes, but they, the house was dismantled anyway. There's some very, very poignant descriptions of the empty house. They may or may not have destroyed all of his papers, but I, myself, I think probably the papers had gone, but certainly the good story is that the 6th Marquis's mother walked in and destroyed everything that was left.

So we have no personal papers. There's a journal turned up in 1906, which is of his last year and was reproduced in part in the newspapers, which is actually really poignant. But no, so there's... is a relic and he's the chapel um the theater which had been built into the chapel originally right back in the 1890s um was returned to a chapel and an occasional school room as is appropriate um at least that's the story okay so i mean it's quite a life it's a sad end but what do you make of

Henry Cyril Hatchet. Well, I'm glad he just made the most of what he had, to be honest. And again, like this extravagance, you know, it feels like it's a symptom of everything that this poor person was put through. Or at least they had fun doing it. And by the sounds of things they weren't, another bet not paying their tailors, it doesn't sound like they were a particularly nasty person

or left much damage behind. They just lived their life authentically. They left a lot of damage behind. I think about it. They left a lot of damage behind. All but the very core servants lost their jobs, lost their homes. The people, particularly the locals, the local shopkeepers and things like that,

who didn't have vast resources. To be owed a smallish sum of money could mean bankruptcy for them, an end of their business. So there's this sort of very ambivalent feeling around here. is that, yes, he was genuinely, there's a genuine affection there for him, but the debts that he had accrued, and he sent this extraordinary telegram when, during, before the sales, when the estate manager wrote to him and said,

please could you send us a check for two, three thousand pounds, because the servants and the local shopkeepers have not been paid for three months, and he sent a telegram back saying, please do not bother me with such trifles. Oh, okay. The nuance window. It's time now for the nuance window. This is where Morgan and I sit silently backstage, bedazzling our costumes for two minutes,

while Professor Viv takes at the stage to tell us something we need to know about Henry Padgett, the Fifth Marquis. So my stopwatch is ready. Okay. And take it away, Professor Gardner. Okay, right. So I'm interested in why people are interested, so interested in him today, and why he's in some sense a hero to them. And my answer to that is sort of we all need heroes,

and maybe in the 21st century we need a queer hero in every single sense of the word, someone who is an outsider and not the military hero who saved England at the Battle of Waterloo. And it helps if that hero is dead because we can then build our own fantasy around him. We can resurrect him in the image that we desire. And in the case of First Mark,

Marquist. He was also persecuted because he was written out of history, and that makes it all the better. His family repudiated him, society repudiated him. So when he rises again from the ashes in the 21st century, he becomes the sort of George Michael. People want him to be George Michael. They want him to be David Bowie, someone who was an outsider who lived his life as he wanted it and a performer. And for the LGBTQ community, he was gender fluid in an era that prosecuted and martyred Oscar Wilde, whose play, of course, the Marquist, did, and a period where Victorian binary notions, male and female, ruled. So he's radical in that sense. He stood in the hero category against his own class, but actually partly because they didn't want to have anything to do with him.

and he brought joy and pleasure into the lives of ordinary people, the servants, the shopkeepers, the postmistresses. Also because he was Welsh, even if he wasn't Welsh. He was more Parisian than he was Welsh, especially North Wales. And it's North Wales that have really embraced him in, you know, for living and playing in North Wales, for making North Wales his utopia. And for learning Welsh, being there,

at the Ishterfod, spending all his money there, even if he actually didn't pay there. And it's an era of growing Welsh nationalism. So he all does this in the most gloriously fabulous way and all for free because he didn't charge people. And he also loved small dogs, and we know that anybody who loves small dogs is a good thing. Except, I argue, that the reality was much, much more complex than that

and not perhaps quite as altruistic as the term hero suggests. But actually, I don't want to spoil anybody's fantasy. I want them to have their stories and their versions of his life because we all create heroes for ourselves and for our moment because we need them. Amazing, thank you so much. For me, what resonated with that amazing speech just then is that queerness in history,

people talk about not generally, gender non-binary stuff or gender fluidity. I think there's a bit of discussion where people talk about, oh, it's all new. It's like, it's not new. It's at all. It's throughout history. You can look at in different cultures. You can look at in different races.

You can look at all over the world. It's there. I have this one properly affinity to me to go, oh, it's up the road. This person in North Wales was doing this 100 years ago. That's really affirming. So what do you know, Now. Well, it's time now for the, so what do you know now? This is our quickfire quiz for Morgan to see how much you've learned. Let's see how we get on. I've got 10 questions for you,

Morgan. Okay. I've got all my notes here. I didn't know this, that there was going to be a note thing and a quiz because you've got told me not to look into the podcast. It's all right. And I'm so worried that I've not been really funny because I've been making notes. It's all right. You've been funny. And let's see if you're also been paying attention. We've got 10 questions. Here we go. Question one. What was, Henry's nickname. Oh, the dancing Mark West. Yes, that's it, very good.

I thought we were saying Marcus for ages. The dancing Marcus. Question two. Henry spoke at least three languages besides English. Can you name two of them? Russian and French. Very good, and also better Welsh. Question three, do you remember the name of Henry's wife?

Oh, Lillian. It was Lillian, well done. Yes, his cousin. Question four. What important remodeling did Henry make to Plasneueth, which he renamed the castle when he was in Marquis? What did he add? Oh, didn't he add a theatre?

He did, he built a gaiety theatre, very good. What was Henry's most famous dance performance called? Oh, the butterfly. It was the butterfly dance. Question six. Which floral scent did Henry Padgett supposedly used to perfume his car? Rumour that was that it was lavender. It was rumour.

I think petulis, so one of those. Question seven, what was one of the sources of the Paget family's wealth? Oh, it was cold. It was cold, good old Cole. Question eight, during the Great Anglesy sales, when he ran out of money, how were some of Henry's clothes displayed? Do you remember who modeled them? Oh, it was one of the servants, wasn't it, his personal service?

It was the auctionist assistant called Jerry. I'll let you have that because I think that's true. Faithful Jerry. Faithful Jerry. Question nine, can you name two items that were sold off at the Great We had four cannons. We did. Have we had a thousand self-portraits, isn't it? We had parrots, we had ice skates, we had mink coats, pianos, walking sticks, and cannons, of course.

Question 10, I think this is for, I'm going to give you 9.5 out of 10 if you get this, because you were pretty good with Jerry. How old was Henry when he died? Oh, he was 29. He was 29. Nine and a half out of 10. Well done, really good. Excellent.

You were paying attention and you were funny, so, you know, win-win. Thank you so much. Well done, Viv as well. Thank you for sharing that with us. My pleasure. Fascinating life. He does feel joyous. He does feel beloved, but I understand that he left a lot of people in financial debt, and that's not fun.

But, you know, we like our flamboyant heroes. And listener, for more flamboyant performers from history, check out our episodes on Josephine Baker, Sarah Bernhardt, or Sarah Bernard, in French. And for more fabulous LGBTQ biographies, we've got a lovely episode on Philippe Duke d'Orleans, which is a good one too. If you've enjoyed the podcast, please subscribe to You're Dead to Me

on BBC Sounds to hear the show 28 days earlier than anywhere else. And if you're outside the UK, you can listen at BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. I'd just like to say a huge thank you to our guests in History Corner. We had the fantastic Professor Viv Gardner from the University of Manchester. Thank you, Viv. Well, thank you, Greg, for inviting me. It's a great pleasure to talk about it. It was very fun, thank you.

And in Comedy Corner, we have the marvellous Morgan. Thank you, Morgan. Thank you so much for having me. It's been absolute delight, Lou. and more about this gentleman that getting to meet you two. And you lovely listener, join me next time

as we stage our own tableau vivant of another long-lost historical topic. But for now, I'm off to commission a spangly lilac football kit. It'll go perfectly with my purple underpants. Bye!

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