You're Never The Only One - Man Keeping + Addiction....You're Never the Only One

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

Warning: This episode contains discussions around alcohol and drug abuse and addiction more generally.  Cat and Emma are back, doing all they can to bring a little sunshine to your January. This week, Emma discusses all things ‘man keeping’. Do you feel like you’re the only one who your male partner can talk to about his feelings? Are men experiencing a friendship recession?  Cat gets personal and talks openly and honestly about her alcoholism and addiction. With so many people doing Dry January, Cat talks about why she chose sobriety and why it’s the best thing she’s ever done. Next week’s topics: Cat: You’re Never The Only One…who struggled with baby brain in the early days. Emma: You’re Never The Only One…who just heard of ‘pretty privilege’ If you’ve got any comments about this week’s episode, or if you want to contribute to next week’s topics or if you just have a cracking story to share with us, then please get in touch. The podcast is all about YOU. Email us: [e-mail] Voicenote/DM: 07457 402704 Please hit the follow button wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you can find it within yourself to drop a 5⭐️ review, we’d be very grateful. It’s the easiest and most effective way to support the podcast. Follow You’re Never The Only One on Instagram and TikTok. If you are struggling with alcohol or addiction, there are many places you can contact. The Drinkaware website has them all listed here https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/advice-and-support/alcohol-support-services/support-lines/ . Please use these resources if you are worried or think you need them.  Credits You’re Never The Only One is created by Cat Sims. It is written and presented by Cat Sims and Emma Nicolet. Producers are Hannah Twigg & Anna Dixon at YMU London and Katie Ray at Radient Management. The podcast is recorded at Outset Studios in London and edited by the team at YMU. Theme music is written and performed especially for You’re Never The Only One by Hot Salad.

We need to start recording earlier in the day. Why? Because you're like fucking firing on all cylinders. I'm waking up, I'm waking up. I know. All right, let's fucking do it. Everybody, oh, you're never the only one. You're never the only one.

Don't live inside your strength, because everybody makes mistakes. I called Jimmy Dad twice in the podcast yesterday recording. So that's some weird Freudian slip? No, but I tell you what's worse, Daddy. Oh, that's what I said. Said at least I didn't say it was Daddy. He said he didn't call him Daddy. Actually, he was with friends this weekend, and the husband says,

what do we think, mum? Like, refers to like... No. Mom, are we doing this? And I was like, it's weird. Stop it, because it sounds like you're calling her mom. If the kids aren't around, yeah. then there's no reason for Jimmy to call me mum.

Yeah. No good reason. No. Okay, we're beginning. Okay, welcome to you're never the young. It works. I love that jingle so much. Do you really?

I really do. I sing it way too much at home. I know, I love it too. Jimmy's so clever. You married such a good one. Today we're recording at 5pm. You can tell because I'm waking up and Cat is, well,

well, she calls it bedtime 5pm. She calls it bedtime. And despite being a fully grown adult, she needs more scheduled naps than a Gina Ford book. In fact, folklore has it. They may have even named the cat nap after her. Ladies and gentlemen, it is the wonderful, the only cats. Thank you, darling.

Thank you. You're right. I do love a nap. I can believe I just had a coffee as well. What was I thinking? Go on, roast me bitch. Roast me like a coffee bean. Roast me like I've never been roasted before.

Okay, here we go. It's lovely as ever to be sat here next to my co-host, Emma Nicolay. She's in a relationship that we're all jealous of with a very handsome, very big, very loving, affectionate boy who never gets at her for being in. late or not being around for pickup or co-hosting a podcast that isn't a success yet called Bertie she's also married to Johnny I love my dog I know I love my dog I spent way too much time this

morning on the kitchen floor with my dog he doesn't judge me it's unconditional yeah he doesn't mind if I spoon him we don't deserve we don't deserve dogs I know I know I know noodles got a new trick noodles got a new trick she sits up like a meerkat oh my god she's incredible it's my favorite thing in the world she loves the chicken foot does she Yeah, she loves a chicken pot. Has she seen you without your socks on? It's like I'm just saying. It's next time.

Right, where we're going? Okay, yeah, so this is where we start, which is where we properly start. Yeah, okay, concentrate, now. Focus, good. This is why I need to write things down because otherwise, woo! We'll be all over the place.

I'm time for catch up on whatever current life stuff we've been navigating personally since the last episode and however mundane and self-indulgent, it may sound, just see it as the warm-up. The trailer before the film. It's like the fluffer before the lead porn actress walks in. Oh!

You know what a fluffer is, don't you? Yeah, but I think they work on lead porn actors. Yeah, before the main, like, lead porn actress walks in. Oh, I see. That's why you get the fluffer. Yeah, the fluffer for the man. Yeah, for the porn actress. Exactly.

Let's just, let's just stick with the film trailer analogy, shall we? Yeah. Sorry. It's a tough crowd today. I'm a tough crowd. Do my best. Shall I start then? Go for it.

Probably best. We've been busy. Went to a comedy night, an old Victorian prison, intimate setting. Shit comedy. Any ghosts? Yes, they do ghost tours there as well. Do they? Yeah, it's very cool.

It's got like all the low arches and stuff. You know, it feels like it's underground, but it's not. I love that. But it's small. Where was it? Arondel. Isn't that from Lord of the Rings? No, that's from Frozen.

Frozen, correct. It's frozen, correct. So yeah, not great comedians, great venue. And we didn't stay till the end. Partly because, you know, the comedians weren't all that. But mostly because once they discovered that I was an influencer and my mate, San Exxony, was called Misty. Oh, God.

It was just downhill. The first comedy gig I ever went to, I think it was probably about 17. And I remember walking in and going, well, we were late, obviously. I remember walking and go, oh, look, there's a table at the front. great so I was like walking in so rookie and obviously sat down got ribbed for being late he's like you are now going to understand

why this table was free what's your name my name was cat which was surname Noel's Fitton I was double barreled at the time then it was a private school thing I mean it was horrendous oh no it was horrendous also I tell this story very quickly

because it is a good one I went to see Simon what's his name Amstall oh yes At a pub in Great Portland Street They've got the Albion I think The Albany. They've got a place at the bottom right Very small venue and Simon Ansel was playing

And I was there with a girlfriend and Jimmy And his friend and his friend's girlfriend And my girlfriend had a big crush on Jimmy's friend And they'd sort of had a bit of a moment And his girlfriend was there So she was having a bit of an emotional crisis She was drinking through the pain and she got so drunk

she was making a noise and she kept trying to talk to me loudly while about that you know and I was like and then eventually she turned around and she puked on the guy behind her and I was busy like doing this and when I turned around

Simon Amstall was here with his microphone and he went I hate you you fucking cunt oh my God and then went back to the stage to you It was your fault

Yeah, but it wasn't like I had a chance to go Hang on a minute, just so that you know She shagged him He's brought his girlfriend She's now crying, drunk three bottles of red, white wine And puked all over him No, I didn't get a chance to explain myself So Simon Amselt

If by any chance you are listening I want you to know it wasn't my fucking fault I was doing my best to control A very difficult situation And I don't really appreciate The way that you treated me If I'm honest I feel like a civilised conversation

I feel like a form of an apology. A letter posted on your Instagram, I think would be... I think it'd suffice. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. An open letter. An open letter. Tag me at Not So Smugnail.

Definitely, tap. And then I might forgive you. No, what I mean to say is I'm really sorry we fucked up your whole set. I need better friends. Anyway, sorry, so you went to a shit conversation. Yes, yes, I did, yes, I did. Oh, oh, and I can't remember if I told you this, but I finally got around to watching

Pamela the love story the Netflix documentary I loved it I wasn't expecting to love it as much as I did I certainly wasn't expecting Johnny to love it as much as he did because people have been saying to me

I remember I was with friends and they were like oh my god you've got to watch the Pamela documentary and I was like really general response but I totally get it and the reason I think it is so good is because she tells

the story completely in her own words because she goes back to her her home on this island where she's from in Canada I think it is and she revisits all these old diaries that she's religiously kept and all these journals so if anyone that hasn't I won't ruin it don't worry but basically she's kept this

all through from her childhood which is so sad and you know all through this very colourful life and they're just so vulnerable and the writing in them is just it's really beautifully done like my diaries were shit but there's something really lovely about them

and she's not writing them, like expecting them to ever be read. They're very non-performative, but that's also how she comes across in it. Did you find that? Totally. And I think that there was, she's one of those still waters runs deep. Like, she was obviously portrayed in such a shallow and superficial way

at the height of her career, that it never occurred to any of us, that she was actually a very smart, very emotionally intelligent, very thoughtful, thoughtful person. Yeah, yeah, really. All of those things. things. And she just, the relationship with her sons were so beautiful in it as well. You can see, you know, how she's dedicated her life to them and how she put them first and none of that

was kind of valued. And it was really interesting to me having spoken about her in an earlier episode when I was talking about why I was so affected by her going, there's no, this whole makeup free thing. But I just found her so inspiring. And as I watched it, I stopped seeing her. I was really inspiring to me because I stopped seeing her just her face and the fact she was makeup free and she just became more and more beautiful as it went on you know it's just it was just so so lovely and in fact

actually I remember I was I shouldn't be surprised that Johnny liked it because he went ahead and watched the Celine Dion one without me which I thought was incredibly rude but that's a good one as well that's quite a heartbreaking well that's the thing it's annoying I can't even watch that without me but do you want to hear I afterwards he wouldn't stop talking about it I got I recorded him do you want to hear with or without his knowledge obviously

Let's have a listen to what he has to say. I didn't expect you to like it as much as you did. Why did you like it? I liked it for the fact that, well, no, I just found it quite eye-opening that we're watching, you know, those interviews with her back in the early 90s where it was like, you know, on panel shows where it was kind of accepted that you could, you know, speak to a woman and ask her questions about, you know, her boobs and her physical makeup as if it was like her fault that she was, you know, a sexual being and that it was made

to be her fault that she attracted that attention and that everything that she received was actually her fault and her making where it wasn't. And it's really encouraging now thinking that the big shift with now in the mid, you know, the 2020s, you could never. say that to a woman or it would be accepted to ask those really deeply personal questions. You know, talking about your boobs and your physical makeup, you know, on prime time TV, that just wouldn't be accepted now. It gives you hope thinking of our kids growing up in a world where actually it's unacceptable to say those things to, you know, I think women are just this object of desire where men get away with everything

and women don't and now it's all very equal and I think that's really like encouraging down with a patriarchy I think that's really interesting and I think it is also interesting like of course you know we're not equal

we're not there we're not even close but let him think we only have to look at Harrods and Greg Wallace but we are better you know the conversation is happening. But can I just add that was not my heavy breathing

in the background that was Bert, my dog lying on me my dog didn't hear it until now. Could you hear it? Honestly, it sounded like I was breathing like a ball mastiff.

It was not me. Anyway, it turns out that was just the bonding session we needed watching that together and just kind of talking about it afterwards because our sexual drought ended the same night.

It was so wonderful but what wasn't so wonderful was driving around for two hours on a Sunday morning looking for a chemist um that was open oh no what was it was it the morning after pill or was it a uTI or was it thrush i didn't think i would be in my 40s at a tesco chemist on one of the busiest weekends of the year asking for the morning after pill but on the plus side i did get to put

on the joint account this time that was good that was good legitimate expense legitimate legitimate Ultimate joint expense. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I've been like, I've been treated like a queen ever since. Oh, it's wonderful. We talk about this kind of weird sex circle, sex cycle, not like, you know, like a bike with like a dildo on it. Like a cycle. Like what happens after you have sex with your husband and how niciest you for how long that lasts.

And then it starts again as the balls start to fill up. Is that just me? Sorry, I'm still thinking about what it would be like to be on a bike with a dildo. And I'm not hating the idea. I was running my mates the other day and she told me she has a sex stall. I was like, what the fuck is a sex store? Is it got like a dildo on it? She was like, no, it's just this stall that my husband used to like us to use

because the way I could sit on it. The angles. The angles. I'm on a sex stall. Nothing worse to the man standing on his little tiptoe. In his socks. You know, like, huah! Always take your socks off.

Always. Always. There we go. I'm going to be honest. I'm struggling. I have seen this and I'm surprised actually because I think you're on really good form today

but I've seen you are not. This is the mask. Oh, okay. So basically I wake up every day and I ask my high power to let me have one more day of mania. Let me just keep going for one more day. Let me just keep.

And I am fully aware, fully aware, which is progress because before I wasn't aware, before I would just go and then crash and go, what just happened? Now I have my mental breakdown scheduled for January.

Right. Which is a great time actually. to have a mental breakdown. Yeah. It's a great time to go. I'm not... Menty B. A little Menti B.

Because of the cosy lives. Oh, they're weird. Holly Bob's. Huh. Anything else? No. It'll come to me. Oh, well.

We'll just spurt them out at some point. And I just... I suppose I'm grateful that I'm aware that I am losing my mind. Like, there's a lot on at the moment. Obviously, I've got my parents. I've got a book that needs to be written by the end of December.

I've got this, you know, the podcast. And she does do most of the work. And I've got Jimmy and the kids and, you know, or the usual mental load and all that's that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm just feeling a little bit like I am out of control. But like I say, you know, it is progress. I'm aware of it. Yeah.

And so I'm just kind of going day by day. Let me have one more day of mania. Do you feel like you can't take a full breath? Yeah. That's how I feel when I get like that. Like I just, yeah. Yeah. Like everything's really shallow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Very shallow breathing. Yeah. Very shallow sleep. Yes. Very, I'm not able to really engage properly in conversations. I'd rather people didn't fucking bother me.

I'd just want to be left alone to get on to storm my way through the rest of the month so that I can collapse in January. So that's positive. Anyway, but listen, we're not there yet. We're not there yet. So I'm tucking in my crazy and I am continuing. And I just wanted to mention that I got an email

today about, from a listener, about, you know, we talked about sex and how many times people are having sex and she was like, gentle reminder that you didn't talk about UTIs. Why is that so important? Well, because we talked about why people aren't having sex and as I remember in my 20s making a conscious decision that sex was not worth the cystitis. Yeah. Because I only had to look at a fucking penis and I got cystitis. And then people get. out how some cranberry juice. Cranberry juice does not work. It doesn't work for anybody.

It doesn't work for anybody. It's the fucking patriarchy going, I can't be bothered to make a fucking pill that actually fixes you, so have some fucking cranberry juice. Big farmer going, we're not going to make money out of that. So fuck them. They're only women. We feel like you're pissing razor blades. The ocean spray farmer.

He's like, he's made a fortune. He's in with big farmer. Big farmer are going, do you mind taking this? He's like, don't wear I've got all the cranberries they need. There's not enough fucking cranberries in the world. So I used to go straight to the doctors and I'd go, I need the antibiotics please. And he'd go, well, I'd be like,

I swear to God, if you don't give me the antibiotics, I'm going to lose my shit. And while you're there. Because it makes you feel like it can lose your shit anyway having cystitis. I don't think, you just like constantly feel like you're on the edge. I think I'd choose anything over cystitis.

Yeah. I used to just sit in a bath. I told you I've been getting it a lot more and apparently it's quite common with perimenopause. Talk to me about that. I don't want to know. Okay, sorry. It really is the world. first thing I ever experienced in my 20s and I remember going and while you're giving me the

antibiotic prescription you need to put a prescription for thrush treatment on there because it's going to give me the antibiotic's going to give me thrush. Oh, because this was like before anybody was like here's a probiotic. You know nobody ever talked about probiotics back in the day. So they help with thrush? Yeah. So the reason you get thrush is because the antibiotic kills all the bacteria good and bad. Yeah. So your balance is out and so you get yeast infection. So if you put a a probiotic while you're on antibiotics it replaces a good bacteria and avoids all that stuff and that's science thank you for pointing that out yeah so there's less of a to-do list right which feels like if you had to push me I'd say my to-do list is fucking everything yeah

and more of a rumination on the pH balance of women's bodies and the fact that that has a and sexual being don't look at me like that that you help the eye contact oh my god Not my sex face. You sure it's true? I don't even know what my sex face is. Been so long since I last Tuesday. Really? Well, about a month now.

But the sex face doesn't last for the whole of sex. It's just for the main bit, isn't it? You mean the big, the big finish shot. The big finish. Yeah. Yeah. If you ever get there. Yeah.

Jimmy's base is the same as his sex face. I imagine it to be a bit like this. It's actually quite a lot like that. Sorry, Jimmy. Mom and Dad are calling me now. Oh, no. Do you want to answer? Just tell them that we're on there.

Just check. Hi, listen, I'm just recording the podcast at the moment. Okay, no hurry. I'll call you back after, Dad. Talk to you later. Bye. Why does he sound like that old boy from the far show? And it was very...

That's him you literally just did an impression of my dad. So he's got a mustache. You have to go like that. Okay, so look, this podcast, could be a whole lot of fart and no poo without this segment which is where of course we discuss our weekly topics right this is what we're here for yeah these have ranged from the frankly ridiculous

to the downright hardcore episode four that was an emotional one which one was that was that me yeah back you know you cried yeah well yeah thanks I made her cry he made me cry I'm sure it won't be the last time no and this week we've got a little bit of both okay I actually can't remember oh yes you're man keeping today aren't you?

I am man-keeping. Today and every fucking day. It's true. So Emma, tell us about the conversational delicacy that you've got resting out of chops around. This week. Okay, salivate yourselves over this. So in a new study published by the journal,

Psychology of Men and Masculinities, experts from Stanford University argue that women... It's a very politician hand I'm giving there. Very politician hand. It's because I'm reading like words written by like clever people. So experts from Stanford University argue that women are taking on the emotional needs of men in their life, adding to their already significant mental load. With research showing some women may spend several hours a week managing the emotional and social well-being of the men in their lives.

Right. So how does this look? What does it mean? Is this you? Are you the one that buys the birthday cards, the presents for his family, the friends, the godchildren? Okay, tick. Are you the only person that maybe your partner can discuss his emotions with and the problems, maybe stuff is going through at work? Are you his soundboard? Do you have to kind of check in on him? You know, you're okay, how's your day going, how you're feeling, more so than if any, you kind of get in return. That was quite a personal one

I felt that It's exhausting Are you responsible for your husband's social life So are you kind of Trying to encourage him to go out Meet up with old friends Do you have to take on what I call Mood Management

There's a lot of that in my house So if this is ringing any bells It's not going to be for everyone I think I put a poll on my Insta and it was around 70% of people that agreed. I mean, I did do it probably about three hours before we came and recorded this. Neither of us were very prepared with our segments today, were we? I mean, to be fair, although this is January 25 when you're listening to this,

we are actually like in the trenches of the Christmas. Yeah, it's fucking shit. But anyway, apparently I've- That's the spirit. Over the past three decades, it's really sad. Men's social networks have apparently shrunk significantly, all right? compared to women's. Don't be like that.

No, I'm joking. I'm not making excuses. Do you remember on BBC Radio 1 they used to do that? You used to tell a sad story and it was that song. Oh, yeah. That's just being, just giving it a bit of. It's from Romeo and Juliet, isn't it? No, I don't.

Sorry. No. But there are dolphins coming down the 10s. So, also, okay, men's mental health charity, Movember says we're now in a male friendship, recession. How sad is that? A hefty 47% of men reporting

they couldn't talk about a problem to a friend. And even if, and I'm going to say, straight men mostly, do have other men in their networks, I do think that their conversations tend to be relatively kind of surface level, or they're generally doing something

that's based around some kind of sport or activity or something, aren't they? But with us women, like most of the time, if we have a problem, what do we do? we go to our friends we talk about it

and we go to our family yeah we'll go to our partner as well but men will solely rely on their partner apparently to be their sounding board so I think it's fair to say you know I think in most couples I think I'm right in thinking this

I think you'll agree with me most couples one person does tend to do the kind of sharing the offloading don't you think it's like well the other tends to be the one that's helping and tiptoeing around the emotions and stuff like that and the feelings, and it's often the woman

that's supporting the man. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think that's what I see for my friends. It isn't my experience now. But I feel like you've been through a lot of relationship. But back in the day, right, exactly. 100%. I felt like it was my responsibility

to manage Jimmy's moods, to respond to Jimmy's moods, to checking on him, you're all right, you know, have I done anything, what can I do? All of that. I don't do any of that anymore, but I do still buy all the birthday cards presents.

and stuff. I do that. I put that into the mental load. Yeah. But the emotions and problems. Am I the only person? I'm certainly one person but I do quite often go you should probably call for you about that. Oh, yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. It's really

different. It's very dangerous for me to come to your house because I leave going, that's really good. Do you remember me saying to you? I'm in the morning after I say to yours. Does he not get passive, aggressive in any way, shape or form? And you were like, yeah, but we just kind of call it. I went home and I tried that.

It fucking ended in like a complete disaster. I was like, that's a bit, I called it. So when he did something, I went, that seems a bit passive-aggressive. I thought, you know, really calmly. And he just lost his shit. And then he went aggressive, aggressive. And then he went on aggressive.

And then I was like, do you want me to give you, something else I've been trying? Do you want me to give you advice or you just want me to listen? Yeah. This is working very well. Yeah. Because he is being honest,

I just want you to listen. Yeah, that's great. And then I'm like, what, my advice, my advice isn't good enough for you. Then you just, you just, I know. I know, it's exhausting. But I want you to know that, although I do have that part of the relationship lick, there is the other part that I imagine you and Johnny definitely have,

which we don't have, which is I really love to take the piss. And Jimmy is not good at laughing at himself. Oh, God. I couldn't, I couldn't. So like, I was like, let's do the fucking real. I've been trying to get you do forever, which you won't do with me. Yeah. The suspect one.

where I'm like, Jimmy, because he's ginger, I was like, Jimmy, I could say, suspect gets sunburn even in a thunderstorm. He's like, I don't like me. And I was like, oh, I could say, suspect runs five times a week still as a dad bod. He's like, please stop. Do you know what the thing is?

I was the Jimmy on the end of this one because you had so many things to say and it's a bit like, I've been thinking about it for such a long time. I couldn't think of any. I couldn't think of any. Anyway, look, going back to the mankeeping, to psychologists

this I find really interesting women often have to teach men the interpersonal skills involved in kind of supportive relationships like how to ask thoughtful questions and actually listen to the answer there's a listening part that really can't because these apparently are skills that us ladies

we naturally kind of learn at an early age it's just something that we naturally develop it's like the mental load it's like by osmosis by the fact that we see the people who are most like us, our mums, do the mental owner to take care of it. We sort of subconsciously take that on as our role. We see our mums talking to their friends and gabbing and drinking a glass of wine and complaining about their husbands

and doing all of that. So we get used to them and we think that's how we operate. Whereas men tend to look towards the people that are most like them, which is their dads. Yes. Especially our generation, they didn't see dads bonding and crying and having a lot. No. They just don't go into the pub and playing golf.

Yeah. So it isn't that, men are deficient and it's the same with the mental load and I really try and shout this from the rooftops it's that boys get taught a certain set of skills and girls get taught a certain set of skills and we can't be mad at them for not just knowing how to run a house or how to look after themselves emotionally yeah because they were never expected or rewarded totally you want to mean for kind of developing those those kind of skills so I totally get that those kind of emotional strengths so that is why women do often find themselves responsible for teaching

and passing on this kind of stuff to the men in their lives. And honestly, things have moved on so much. I mean, God, we were talking about Johnny O'an. I talked about this the other day. You know, I love it now. I was seeing a man carrying a baby in a papoose or pushing the pram out on his own, not just because he's doing it for.

Yeah, but we're not going to give him credit for that, are we? No, but I mean, like, or changing a nappy. Like, Johnny's cousins never changed, he's got two children, never changed a nappy still to this day. Like, that's, yeah, I have no time for that. No, I get you, 100%. but like my god I'm so like Johnny so hands on with the kids so just like that we talk about everything but the fact that that's the thing that we celebrate rather than call out the non-baby

changing thing like I'm not I think Johnny's great I think he's a great dad Jimmy is too yeah but I'm not going to sit here and go he's such a great dad because he does those things that is what a dad should do no I'm saying progress wise if we're talking about the fact oh like oh okay so they're coming to us you know to help them navigate through their emotions yeah let's allow it. Yeah, exactly. You know, so I'm not here to vilify them, you know? That's the thing, because it's very easy to come on here and go,

oh, mankeeping. It's so, but I wanted to come and talk about it from an angle of like, here's why. Yeah. So now it gives you a better understanding of it. And also, like, what's our part in it? Like, because I used to do this. I used to think that Jimmy's mental health, Jimmy's happiness was my responsibility. It's not.

My kids' happiness is not my responsibility. My responsibility is to teach them how to make themselves happy. Right. and so once I was like if he's in a bad mood he's in a bad mood if he wants to talk to me about it he knows exactly where I am

and I was like I wasn't awful I wasn't even distant but I was like I'm not I'm not responsible for your mood and I used to and I say you know and I'll say it to the kids your feelings are really valid

but the way that you're expressing them isn't oh I like that and that's really true because you say it to the kids 500 times a day you have to wait till they're an age where they understand that of course you do yeah

but you know it's the same with Jimmy I was like Like, I get it that you're in a bad mood. Yeah. But you're kind of being a fucking fun sponge. Yeah. So either take yourself away. Yeah.

Or sort it out. Right. If I can help you sort it out and hear. If not, then go and find somebody who can. Yeah. But I did. And a lot of that sobriety, I had to get to a point where I was not, uh, ring fencing or maintaining other people's emotions.

I couldn't fucking maintain my own. I don't know why. This is what women typically do though. They call it, um, kinkeeping within family. So you're, as well as remembering all the birthday, They're checking, you know, your child when they come home from school, you know, but, you know, you're, you know, I don't think Johnny would necessarily notice if someone, you know, not had a good day unless they, you picked her up from the bus stop

and she was quiet, you know, but I'm always, and I think most mum's checking in, how was you, how was your day, they're not going to tell you, they're not going to tell you what the day's like at all. Not until bedtime. Not until bedtime, exactly, and they get really thirsty. And really talkative. You're managing the social calendar as well, as the mum. You're making sure everyone's feeling cared for. That's definitely Jimmy.

Jimmy does a social calendar. Does he? Yeah, as soon as he goes. So I've spoken to so-and-so, I'm like, ugh. I don't want to see anybody. I hate people. I hate the fact that Johnny speaks to someone

and then tells them to speak to me. I'm like, just do it. Just put it in. I hate people. I don't want to meet anybody. And he's like, so I've said they can come over. I'm like, why would you do that? You're such a grinch.

I am such a grinch. I think it's because my home is like my sanctuary. Really safe space. Right. It is my absolute. absolute like I love it and you'd have to tidy up no I'd have to tidy up yeah but I also I just don't like having to share it I get it I have a small I have a small window I have a small

window yeah it's not massive it's not a big house yeah so it's not when there are people in it the downstairs is really you know there's a lot of bedrooms but it's not there's not much usable space in a social way right designed it for the four of us you've designed it that way Yeah, to keep people out, basically. Well, now I'm thinking about it. You probably. Subconsciously, you probably have. Yeah, I do remember moving the sofa where I've moved it

and going, mum and dad are never going to be able to get in there. And then I thought, well, that's not the worst thing in the world. It's sad. Anyway, it's no surprise that we were talking about burnout earlier, that burnout rates amongst women have more than doubled, okay, compared to men, at least in recent years, with all this invisible labour on top of everything else. Do you want to hear of fun, forward slash depressing fact?

Yeah. Okay. 80% of all autoimmune diseases happen to women. I did read that. That's devastating. Lupus, Crohn's disease. Fibromyalgia. Yeah, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis.

So although some of that is down to our kind of, I did look into this because I thought, hold on a minute. You're going to get some people. Exactly. Now, I have looked. And although some of this is down to our chromosomes and also being attributed to our gender roles, so we are we tend to be more kind of caregivers so we're around more germs and things and things like that

when you are constantly taking this is this is medically proven when you are constantly taking on more stress other people's stress you get stress which undermines the immune system and then it turns it which you know autoimmune diseases are your your your system turns against you yeah and starts basically eating itself it's terrifying and that is why you know women more often the not are constantly kind of looking after other people are getting it because they're more often than not constantly looking after other people's emotional needs.

You know, trying to be nice to everybody all the time. You know, be nice, you've got to be nice. Do you know what you've got to have? You don't do that. No, boundaries. Yeah. We've talked about boundaries. We've talked about boundaries a lot.

I've had some feedback from one of our listeners, Sharon. And I think it'd be something maybe you could give some advice on. She says, I often feel like a human shield, juggling the interactions of my family. Everyone shares their issues with each other via me. I absorb this. I need to share with you my experience of living with an ADHD man and my confusion around where ADHD ends and the selfish prick starts. Women with ADHD

have a different experience because they still carry a greater mental load. I know far more about how to communicate with my husband than he realizes or appreciates and I'm constantly in between him and the rest of the world. It is exhausting. Not enough room here for it all, but there's relevance for you and cat potentially she said it's going back to what you said do you want me to listen do you want my advice or do you want me to just listen yeah like that's a great place to start because if if he says just listen then great that's it done you're done you don't have to take on any more responsibility i think if he's relying on you to fix him yeah if he's making you his higher power like you can fix me you can fix my feelings you can make me feel happy and all the rest of it

then there needs to be some boundaries gently put in but also if they're talking to her about somebody else in the family, then you just go, this doesn't sound like a me problem. This sounds like a problem you need to talk to little Johnny about or, I don't know, Francesca. What, what name is my Francesca? Where are these privileged children? Little Johnny and Francesca. Anyway, there is a silver lining. Apparently there are signs that the younger generation of men are becoming more comfortable

with emotionally intimate relationships with other men, which has been attributed to the stigma around homosexuality being kind of lessened and also great mothers probably. Yeah, yeah. Great women. I think as well, I don't want to always sound like, oh, I'll put boundaries and be better. I'm so good. That's not what I'm saying.

I want you to know that I've been a total and utter cunt who has completely wrecked my marriage. Oh, we're going to talk about that soon, right? I think that's your topic, isn't it? I think that is. You're never the only one who's been a cunt. There you go. So I am.

I'm talking about drinking because I'm, I don't know if I've mentioned. it, but I'm an alcoholic in recovery. No. People are like, why would you say that out loud? Well, here's why, Sandra. I'm going to be brutally honest about it because I do believe that my addiction,

if there's one thing I know about it, on a selfish level, saying it out loud makes it smaller for me. Right? You know, there's nothing worse than living with this secret that you think you're an alcoholic and nobody knows.

Also, spoiler, everybody knows, by the way. The lack of self-awareness is wild. But it also, and I know this time and time again, it helps other people listening and watching. And I know this because every single time I talk about my sobriety on the internet, Tintelweb, 100 people get back to me and go, how did you do it? And they all ask exactly the same questions.

How did you give up? How did you know you were an alcoholic? That is the biggest one. And then they'll go, you know, do you think ADHD was a factor? This feels so big, Kat. It feels like this needs a whole episode to itself. It's like there's so much to cover in this. Well, listen, I think it's all right because what I'm not going to talk

talk about, I'm not going to talk about how I got sober. Yeah. I have mentioned it before. I've made decision to not talk about that now because of the, that's what we do. But it is really important. I put this on my Instagram and I was like, any questions or issues or worries or whatever, put them in the box. And I got a few questions, but really all they came down to was how did I know as an alcoholic. Right. That's essentially the question. And there is no shade to anybody who asked me that question, but in my experience, the people asking me that question tend to be asking it for themselves or a very close loved one right because what they want me to say is this means you're an alcoholic and then they can judge whether they're an alcoholic or not okay in my experience

if you're asking the question yeah how do you know if you're an alcoholic or if you have a problem with drink however you want to phrase it it's all the same there's probably a problem interesting because people who drink responsibly don't ever question whether they drink responsibly or not they don't wake up and go well that's weird that I didn't blow up my life yesterday yesterday. It's weird that I didn't lose all my credit cards and mobile phones yesterday. You know, they don't think about their drinking. They have a couple of glasses of wine. They have a nice time. They go to bed. They wake up. They go on with their lives. So if you are constantly doing something that's making you think perhaps this is a problem.

Yeah. Probably a problem. Right. Okay. But for me, I just knew. Those people now go. Well, yeah. I mean, I think that that is actually, I think it is a, little frog in my throat. I think it is a bit of a silent pandemic. Okay. Within, within our society. I do think we have normalized over drinking. And I want to be really clear. I know I'm going to sound like I'm preaching. I can only say this with the perspective of sobriety. It blows my mind how massive I thought giving up drinking was. Like I thought my life was over. I thought I wouldn't know myself. I thought I'd never have fun again. I thought that this was the end of the world as I knew it and now I'm like I just order something different at the bar that's

all I do yeah that that is really on a on a day to day level the only I just don't go down I mean I do go down the wine aisle but I don't put wine in my shopping trolley on on the on a granular level that's literally the only difference in my life in terms of how whether alcohol is in it or not yeah I mean and it's like and at the time I was like my whole identity rested on me being a drinker well there was a wobble in between, wasn't there? Like, I think as you have redis, and I've seen this with other friends who, you know, who have gone sober. It's, there's a kind of a wobble

in between where you start, you have to rediscover who you are without it in your life. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's, I'm saying three years in, I'm at that point. Yeah. The first year was, was crazy socially. I really struggled. But I, you do get to a point where with that perspective, I go, fuck, you know, I can't

think of one good reason to drink. Yeah. Like, it's not even good for me. Yeah. The best I can hope for if I have a drink is that I even out because it's not going to make me healthier. If I do too much of it, it's probably going to make me very unhealthy. So the best I can hope for is that I don't do any damage. That's it. And now with that perspective, it's wild to me. And, you know, when I think about, I've got a voice note from somebody who tried to do it through Alcoholics Anonymous, it didn't work for her. And she ended up doing it through a much more intellectual level. Like she did a lot of science and education and was like there was just no way that I could read all of the information and the facts and the scientific

investigation into alcohol and its effects on you and not and not think why am I, why the fuck would I do that? So it was really, so basically for me, I wasn't an alcoholic that slept on a park bench. I hadn't lost a license. I hadn't lost my kids. I hadn't lost my house. I hadn't lost a job. I didn't drink in the mornings. I didn't hide booze around the house. Although I did take wine bottles out to the big bin rather than put them in the inside bin. I mean, most of people wouldn't know that Jimmy's never been a drinker, so... Yeah, Jimmy's not a drinker.

So, like, I had to hide that. Yeah, you weren't drinking together. But I didn't have, like, vodka on my cornflakes or hidden in the towels or... Yeah. You know, I didn't wake up in the morning ago, I need a drink. I was delicious. That was a binge drinker.

I was a binge drinker. I drank most nights. I'd probably drank five or six nights out of the week. I'd drink almost a bottle of wine, but not quite. Because if I didn't drink a full, but I'd leave that much. Right. Because then I wasn't an alcoholic.

Yeah. And that's why I... I only drank five or six nights and not seven because an alcoholic wouldn't be able to do that. Right. So again, that was a voice going, I might have a problem with this. But if I don't drink tonight,

then I absolutely don't have a problem with this. Because in my mind, an alcoholic had to be at that extreme end of like pissing yourself on the bus. Right. You know, there was no possibility. Everything else was maybe like a grey area drink. I used every fucking term to avoid the word alcoholic. I was a grey area drink.

I had a problematic relationship. Right area drinker. All of this fucking nonsense. Sounds like Facebook kind of state says it's complicated. It's complicated. It wasn't fucking complicated. It was as simple as it comes. I was a fucking addict.

And if I didn't have a glass of wine in my hand, I knew when I was going to. And if I didn't know when I was going to, then I made a reason to have one. I called a friend and I was like, let's go for lunch. A friend I knew who would be up for drinking. And then I wouldn't be home till six in the morning.

I couldn't wait to tie one on. I could not wait to get absolutely mash up. Really? I didn't need to do it every day. But when I did it, I didn't know when it was going to stop, when I was going to end, who I was going to meet, where I was going to end up, and when I was going to get home. Neither did Jimmy.

And neither did my kids. And that was the point at which I just went, this isn't healthy. And I cannot have one drink and walk away. I used to go to dinner with friends who'd like leave half a glass of wine on the table. And I would be like, what are you doing? She'd be like, I'm done. it would be like

it is incomprehensible to me that that people can do that like I'm insanely jealous of that I would love because I loved like alcohol I had a really good time with as well it wasn't all bad yeah there were times when I you know had a great time

and I loved wine red wine especially like I enjoyed different kinds of red wine and beer and ales and I loved it all it wasn't like I drank because you know he didn't like it I used to smoke like that hated smoking, but I couldn't not fucking smoke.

Yeah. That was bizarre. But booze I actually enjoyed. But at first it was fun, then it was fun with consequences, and then it was just fucking consequences. Whether that was just a raging headache, hangover that I couldn't get off, or I'd lost my fucking cards again, or I'd left my mobile phone

somewhere, or it ended up being sexually assaulted. Like, you know, the consequences ranged from falling sleep on the tube and ending up in fucking Stanmore to really serious horrendous things and I just normalised it all

you know and I think we do like if my daughter's fell as got shit face and fell asleep on a tube and I had to walk home from Stanmore because a phone battery ran out and she didn't know where her cards were Oh my God I'd be like this is not okay but at the time I'd be like

oh cat fell asleep on the tube again you know we normalised so much that it's um it is scary and I think for me it's so easy to see that while I looked normal while I looked like I was just a party girl it's only with the perspective of sobriety

that I can go that's not all right just because I'm not causing chaos every minute of every day doesn't mean the chaos I am causing is okay it's not it's still quite a lot of chaos I'm just going to say there is can you imagine what it was like oh my God before

also to be fair this is like medical chaos now this is ADHD chaos this is like legit chaos This is chaos like, can I not help. Another diagnosis just can't get an awful. I know, I love it. Go on. But anyway, the point is, I'm an addict and it doesn't matter what it is.

It happened to be alcohol. As soon as I gave up booze, I went to 20 cigarettes a day. I hate cigarettes. I don't like the taste of it, but I just wanted to fucking change something. I just wanted to do something. Yeah. What are you addicted to now? Sugar!

That seems to be the case for people in a company. Well, when you give up alcohol, you give up a shit ton of sugar. Yeah. Because there's so much sugar in wine and alcohol in general. So it's very normal. When you're in recovery, they're always like, have some chocolates on you all the time, have Haribot on you all the time. Like, we can deal with the sugar addiction later, but you just don't drink, right?

So I did that. I started using sugar like I used to do alcohol. So I'd call Deliveroo. I couldn't call them because obviously you don't call Deliveroo, but I'd get on the app instead of ordering three bottles of Marlbeck and 20 Marbley. I'd order like a packet of hobnob, digested milk chocolate. You've got so many shops at the end of your road, you lazy cow. Yeah, but also I was on my own and the kids were in sleep.

Oh, yeah, and you live in London. I forget. Can you imagine if I'd left my kids to go and get wine and cigarettes? Daily mail would be all over that. Influencer. Yes, because there's paramedes. Kidnapped while she was out getting shit face. Shipface on Aribo.

On Aribo. But the point is, and I would, and so instead of ordering all the wine, I would order a packet of chocolate hobnobbs, a tub, of Ben and Jerry's half-baked ice cream. Oh, so good. Fruit gums and a packet of those sugary red laces. Can I say an excellent selection? Excellent selection.

But I would do it all in one go. What? I would do it all in one go. You'd have it all in front of you. The ice cream, the laces. I'd eat all of that in one go. And then I would go, I would almost slip into like a hyperglocemic coma. And when I woke up, the shame I felt was the same as a shame I would feel after a night

out and three grams of comb. really realizing I had to look after my children yeah like the shame was the same so I was like there is a problem it doesn't matter what the fucking substance is for me it doesn't fucking matter I am always going to be looking for something that changes the way I feel because I need the dopamine yeah I need the dopamine here and also less so now I'm not drinking on feelings I'm not drinking on trauma I'm not using sugar or whatever it is on those things but occasionally that still you know pipe rears its head and that's when I have to like deep into recovery I have to go back and go right I'm a bit shaky I need to do this yeah but it's it is one of those

things that for me is the best fucking thing I've ever done and I've never met anybody I've met a lot of sober people and I've never met one of them who said well I gave up booze in my life went to shit not one you know my argument would be if you are worried or if you've got a little voice it's like maybe then try it you know when it starts costing you more the money, like if you've lost friendships or relationships or your dignity, probably time to have a think about it. Oh, a better time than January. Right?

New Year? It's almost like we fucking planned it. I mean. Just quickly also want to say that the word alcoholic is something that kept me out of recovery for a long time. I did not want to be an alcoholic. I mean, nobody wants to be an alcoholic. Nobody sits in their like careers meeting at 50 and goes, well, I want to be.

There's a raging alcoholic. but actually now I'm I fucking embrace that word because I'm an all or nothing girl if I just class myself as a grey area drinker I'll be like well I could probably manage it if I am a social smoker I'm like yeah I can probably have a couple

I need to be like no you are an addict and you cannot have any abstinence is the easiest option because I don't think about alcohol anymore and if I was moderating I would be thinking about it all the time when you say alcoholic

I think that's yeah I can understand why people are a bit scared of the word, but I think with addict, people can relate to being addicted to things, to being addicted to sugar, to being, so to be able to say that out loud. Alcohol is my first, my primary. So I'm an alcoholic.

I'm also addicted to other shit, but I'm an alcoholic. And I think that we can brush that under the carpet, but alcoholic is a very specific type of addict. And it is a very destructive, very insidious disease in a way that, you know, being addicted to your phone or being addicted to sugar isn't. necessarily and I think that addict sits more comfortably with people yeah but actually if you're

an alcoholic you probably know you are and you need to you need to just sit with that word it's a fucking powerful word I'm a grateful alcoholic like my life would not be my life's fucking brilliant I mean obviously not right now because I'm a raging hormonal mess of fucking cesspit perimenopausal nonsense but in general my my life's fucking brilliant yeah like I've got career opportunities I've never would have had if I wasn't drink if I was drinking. I've got relationships. I never would have had my marriage,

my friendships, all of that that I wouldn't have if I wasn't sober. Yeah. And I'm always fucking grateful that I've got sobriety. I couldn't have done it as a drinker. I would not be here doing what I'm doing if I was drinking.

And so what you think might be the worst thing in the world, which is, hi, my name's cat, I'm an alcoholic, actually was the best fucking thing I ever did. No shame in that and being an alcoholic at all. I love you. I want to hold your finger like Ariana Grande, you know, wicked.

You've seen the meme going on it. She's just holding a finger. That's the port of a finger. It's weird. Look it up. Let's put a picture of it up here. How long do we have to do this for? I'm going to have that one.

Just there. Just there. Carry on talking like it's normal. Okay. Yeah. I'm not wanking your finger. You are a little bit. Gently.

I'm really pleased I did my nails. And you actually for a change. Oh, fuck off. If you are struggling, there are so many things out there for you. Like, you can literally just rock up. We can add that in the notes for this. think we should for this.

We can add in the various different recovery places that you can go to and we will do that. Okay, so not thank you, it's in that finally, but thank you because I'm worried about the time. Yeah, got it. And I want to squeeze in some emails that we've been sent as well. What's your topic for next week? You're never the only one who has a funny story from your first night as a mum. I saw it on a radio. There was a radio show.

It was Capital with Jordan North, who, by the way, love. And it was his co-host or somebody. It's Sean Welby, isn't it? Right, hang on. First time alone, me and Ruby, my baby. And it's a nightmare that first night. They're crying. You don't really know what you're doing.

You're trying to breastfeed. You try and do this at and the other. And at about five in the morning, a midwife stuck a head around the curtain and went, you're all right? And I went, oh, God, I'm struggling. My eyes are welling up. I was like, I don't what to do.

And she went, oh, why don't you give them a bit of formula? She's like, there's no harm in it. I went, oh, what a great idea. I said, I've got some in my bag over there, and I'm pointing at it. And she went, oh, is there any way you could? You couldn't just get it out for me, could you, and warm it up.

but she went, oh, could do then. And I was like, oh, please, if you could, that would mean so much. I'm there, because I've had a C-section. I can barely move, right? So, bless her, she goes off, heats the milk, comes back. I'm like, thank you so much. Anyway, next day, Jake's back, and we're in the room. And say midwife sticks ahead around the curtain and goes,

I get it on, and went, oh, good, thank you. And as she trotted off, I said to Jake, went, oh, that midwife's been amazing. She helped warm my milk up last night. And Jake went, sorry, that woman. He said, what, in the Tigger pyjamas? And I was so delirious, right? I had got one of the other new mumps.

I had also just given birth. I got her to warm up my milk at 5 in the morning. Well, that's some good stories for that, I'm sure. I'm going to be covering, well, you're never the only one who's just heard of the term. Pretty privilege. This is a new one. I said this to you earlier. You've heard it. Basically, it's a term you to describe the unfair advantages that people who are considered attractive receive in society. That includes higher salaries, considered to be more trustworthy,

apparently, and having an advantage in business deals as well. So as always, if you've got anything to say on that, or anything we've covered today, any other topics, or previous episodes, we would love to hear from you, which leads me on, I think we've got enough time, to some emails that we have been sent time blindness beck I wanted to talk about oh yeah she mess with me she said I just wanted to say that having gone through the AU ADHD assessment what does that mean autism and ADHD okay I thought so um I've done so much research into it and girls and women present much differently to boys and men and yet we are still predominantly assessed by male symptomatic presentation well I've found liberating as fuck she says is realizing that I'm not broken because I can't keep

up, keep track of shit, keep on time, and the mechanisms I have to put in place to say afloat are ridiculous to normal people. If I want to be on time anywhere, I have to be ready 30 minutes before we have to leave. But as a mum, there are always hundreds and thousands of things that get in the way of me doing this, namely my children, their needs, the housework, work, work, whatever. Prioritising is hard because when the majority of the buck starts with you, what do you do? I get that time blindness can be a pain for people that don't get it, but I don't think those people truly understand how hard it is. It was so nice to me to read this and you, if you follow me, you know, I posted an actual

kind of marital. Posted a domestic, didn't you? Yeah. She was having a domestic in the car with a husband. Yeah. And it was well Pasag. Yeah. Popa Passag.

Well, I'll just get out here, shall I? Yeah. And I'll walk. It was basically if, on the decree, was it decree, was it decreesite? Yeah. That would be what he would cite as a reason for our divorce. Right. Anonymous says, my daughter at 16 has just had the diagnosis of ADHD.

She has total time blindness. And interestingly, just... Thank you. You were. You knew I was going to struggle with that, didn't you? 100%. She has no understanding of passage of time

and we have tested this by getting her to guess when one minute, five minute and ten minutes is up. I've done this and I am shit at it as well. We use all the tools under the sun, but no tools she says helps the total block her brain gets when she knows she has to be somewhere.

It's like giving her a deadline and instruction to get somewhere makes the block stronger. Yes. She hates it. She hates being called lazy and late, as in her head. Her brain works against what she knows she needs to do and then waste time. I totally get this.

She then can't estimate how much time has been wasted and then she panics about being late and then repeat. I see how hard it is for her. Well, lucky she's got you as a mum. And then finally, Lucy from Space to Talk Counseling, I want to end on this lovely email. We spoke about body positivity. She said, I just wanted to let you know that I haven't been able to stop thinking about last week's episode. It was such a powerful chat about body positivity. I found it so insightful to hear such a range of thoughts and opinions.

It has left me quite angry because I think people don't really understand the nuances of body positivity, neutrality, etc. And I think there was so much misinformed thinking amongst those sharing their thoughts. I wanted to message just because I think that's what podcast should do. Stir things up. Get us talking and thinking. It's made me think about how I could get some more discussions happening around this. So thank you. I've never kept revisiting a podcast ever before.

and that is powerful shit. Oh, what a way to end. Yes, thank you so much for that, Lucy. And if like Lucy and everybody else that's emailed us, you can also email us at you are never the only one at gmail.com. That is you're never the only one. I'm going to do what you do. Y-O-U-R-E-Y.

You're never the only one at gmail.com. Or you can WhatsApp us and you've memorized the number, which blows my mind because as I said, you've been going to say in Pilate's for three years and still can't remember the door code. You can WhatsApp us or voice notice us or message us on 0757-402-704. That's 07457402-704.

So that's us. We'll see you next week. That's a vista, baby. The things I say do, I'm always what I mean. I'm neither saying or sinners. I'm somewhere in between. This world is complicated

Everything moves so quick And lying to yourself If you think that you've got to live Everybody love You're never the only one You're never the only one Don't live inside your strength Because everybody makes mistakes

Oh Don't judge me I'm a weakness Don't judge me on my floor Because no one's really perfect By the grace of God goes all Everybody knows You're never the only one You're never the only one

Don't live inside the shame Because everybody makes mistakes Oh Taking the time to make sure Everything's okay Picking up like to everyone else each and every day When I've got to be nothing left for you to spend on you

You're allowed to be happy to never the only one don't live inside your shame because everybody makes mistakes oh you're never the only won

you're never the only one don't live inside your shame because everybody makes mistakes Oh