You're Never The Only One - Think we're doing sex-ed wrong? You're Never The Only One

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

This week, Cat & Emma tackle the topic of sex-education in schools and Cat tells us about the time she made everyone uncomfortable at her kids' school when she went in for the 'Sex-Ed' chat. Emma also talks a lot about pigeons which is, actually, a lot more interesting than it sounds. As ever - PLEASE GET IN TOUCH WITH YOUR OWN STORIES!We want to hear your tales of woe, wonder and shame. It can be about sex-ed or any of the other topics we discuss on the podcast or, it can be about anything you like, just as long as it's going to bring us joy in one way or another. Email: [e-mail]: 07457 402704DM: @yourenevertheonlyone If you want to support the podcast further:Leave us a 5⭐️ review wherever you listen to your podcasts.Subscribe to our YouTube channelFollow us on Instagram and TikTokBuy Cat's book The Mental Load Diaries HERE

So here on You're Never the Only One, we provide you with a melting pot of topics. We can be lowbrow at times. Most of the time. Most of the time. And occasionally we provide you some highbrow entertainment, if not informative. Yeah. Entertainment, sometimes informative. Yeah.

I was trying to think what kind of brow we were. And what I came up with is that we are the overplucked 90s brow. Yeah. Because once you started, there's no going back. Hello, oh, oh. Don't live it's not a shame because everybody makes mistakes. Hello, and welcome back.

If you've made it to episode two of series three, of You're Never the Only One, a little name drop there, then thank you, and congratulations. You've officially chosen chaos. And we love you for it. We love you for that. We may not have our shit together,

but then who really has? And that's the premise of this entire podcast. So whether you're driving, you're cooking, you're working out, we're just avoiding real life. I know the feeling. Strap in and let's get started. Why are you laughing?

Because you say to strap in. And then you thought a strap on. Totally. I know. Yeah. I won't be the only one because you're never the only one. Oh, that's why I love you. This episode, like every other,

unless I get approached by the BBC and wist off to do my own spin-off show about dogs and how they heal your childhood trauma. I'm joined by Cat Sims. Cat recently wrote a book called The Mental Load, which is ironic because that's my name. nickname for her behind closed doors. Did you like that one? Listen, I actually believe it.

You're not wrong. I'm a lot. I've always known I'm a lot. It's fine, fair enough. Listen, if you're just listening and not watching this, you may not know that we're now in a different studio this season.

Yeah. It's halfway between my house and Emma's house. Before we were doing it in London, it was actually a schlep for everybody, wasn't it? And we here for two days. We record three episodes.

What the fuck is coming? Just lay it on me. No. So Emma thinks that this change. was because, you know, we were working smarter and not harder. But it's really so that we can trap her here so she doesn't fucking turn up late every time. I just say, who was on time today?

Who was on time today? Me. Thank you, Ben, silently applauding from behind. Nobody cares about Ben's opinion. I just say. I was like, I questioned whether I was A on the right day because I said, I did that as well. I thought, I called, sorry, but I just get this out there.

Kira, who we're staying with, lovely Kira, I called her on Tuesday and said, I'll see you tomorrow, and then I messaged her and I went, no, shit, sorry, it's the next day. And then she called me yesterday in a panic going, what time are you coming? And then message me and went, oh shit, no, it's not today, it's tomorrow. So between us, it'll be a miracle

if we actually end up with any way to stay. Oh, God, don't say that, please. No, it's fine, I've spoken to her. Oh, thank God. Swimming-pull's waiting. Yay, can't wait. Okay, so thank you for that lovely roast cat. You're welcome.

I'm glad that we've got the ball rolling now and now we're on episode two because actually I was struggling for fodder. I know. I was like, oh, I feel like I've exhausted all of my insults. So, you know, as we progress, I'm sure there'll be more. I'll provide you with some more content, don't worry. I'm sure.

I'm now that sounds, should we have a little catch-up? Yeah, let's do it. We haven't done that for a while. What's been on your plate at the moment, darling? A lot. A lot of plates with lots on, all spinning. Yeah. And falling.

Slopping all over the place. Slopping all over the shit. They're all full of super. It's that kind of shit show. But actually, something happened, I went, I think you'll find this quite funny. Not this, that sounds wrong. I went to my dad's first wife's funeral.

Hilarious. I went to my dad's first wife's funeral last week. And it was lovely. It was in the new forest, beautiful, lovely drive, do you know what I mean? I enjoyed that. Day out, isn't it, at our age, funeral? Free meal. What did I say last?

I said this to you, didn't I? Last episode, I was like, that's it, 50 years of funerals for me. that's all there is. Anyway, she was a very thrifty woman and she'd even said my older sisters, obviously from my dad's first marriage, had said to me,

well, she did say to us, I only live next door, you know, to the funeral home, you know, where they're going to do it all and burn my body. Just put me in a wheelbarrow. Take me over there in a wheelbarrow,

I'll be fine. It's got to be illegal. So I had this image in my, I kept thinking, please don't let me turn up and she's kind of slumped in the wheelbarrow. No, she wasn't, she was already there waiting. Oh, you mean like instead,

not just like when she's, She didn't want a hearse. Oh, you mean instead of a hearse? Instead of the hearse. She was like, don't worry about the hearse. Just take me around, chuck me in the oven. I'll be done, right? So, bless her, she was great.

But anyway, also this is... Or one of those sun loungers with wheels. A sun lounger with wheels? You know, like in fancy places, they've got wheels on it. You could put liar on there and just shift around in a sun lounger with wheels. Money Mum official used it on a reel to move a sofa, so that's what gave me the idea. Because I also realised, when you go into rig a mortis,

you can't really fold a body up and put it in a kind of... I did overthink this a little bit, but the sunbed thing would work. Yeah. You know, already flat out anyway. Moving swiftly on. The wake was interesting. Okay. She loved, like, I just want kids' party food.

So I got there and there was loads of, like, you know, the tinful hedgehogs with... The pineapple and cheese sticks. My sister had spent ages doing all these, like, and then she had, like, what's the, what's the fizzy stuff that has the, like, the bottle that's all kind of cut into? cut into. It's alcohol. You must remember. That wasn't that long ago. The fizzy stuff.

You know, like a frisne. Frisnay. I knew you know it. Yeah. They do a great non-alcoholic. Do they? Well, there was none of that there. Anyway, it was all fully alcoholic.

And then one of my sisters called and she said, come outside. We're going to release the doves. And I was like, fucking out. We've gone from kids party food to dubs. It was so random. Anyway, then my other sister went to me,

they're not doves, they're pigeons. And they're light-coloured pigeons. So it turned out the neighbour had these homing pigeons, right? And they went and picked the lightest ones. They got the lightest ones. And she lives next door, so they went, look. It just like, he just flew up.

And landed next door, and we were like, oh, they didn't do the kind of circling. This is the kind of funeral I can go on board with. Honestly, it was really wonderful. Aside from that, seeing all my nieces and nephews, it was really, really lovely. So, anyway, they released these pigeons and they flew around for them. Release the pigeons. It's ridiculous.

They flew around for a bit. And I actually have a bit of a soft spot for pigeons. I know, I know, right? And this is despite a really awful incident in Camden Town when I was, like, post-drama school, doing some leafleting, and I got shot on. I mean, this pigeon must have had a booner the night before, because I swear to God, it was there was so much shit I remember I felt it and I was like

oh oh oh oh and I ran and I was in like a Camden's Grotty at the best of times I had to find like a pub toilet and go in and I'm there like and at this point you know what I'm like my makeup and my hair I mean can you imagine I had long blonde hair at this time and I was in the sink trying to rinse it out and then dry it under the dryer

and hand out French connection leaflets after it's awful but anyway I have the reason that's real trauma I know I know but you still love them well I didn't for quite a long time until I saw this thing about pigeons, right? I think I might change your opinion of them as well, right?

Because people have forgotten that pigeons, the reason why they're the only birds where they're ever near to, like, humans. You don't see any other, but you don't see woodpeckers, do you? No. You don't see like blue tits. They don't come round you, do they? No.

Pigeons, we domestic. Never see there. Never, particularly in the UK. I know, just throwing it out. But pigeons, we domesticated them. We bred them initially. Yeah. For over 5,000 years, we have been using them and having them in our lives.

They were like the caveman's FedEx. Do you know that pigeons used to deliver, like with the first ever Olympic games, they delivered news of the winners. So we bred them, whether it's to eat, for company, whatever. And now we're like, fuck off, a little ratty. I'm trying not to swear. Are we a minute in yet? But people really hate them.

them okay but the other thing is I saw this monument in Worthing in this park in Worthing and it was about a pigeon that had won a war medal and it turns out I looked into it I'm serious guys of all the places yeah I thought this podcast was going to go I'm going to be honest pigeons winning war medals was not on my bingo card today there was so many pigeons that helped us win the war they're both world wars they used to carry messages back and forth there was this one pigeon that came back at the end of the war but when it died It had about 15 bullet wounds in it. Come, see, see, see.

Tough little fucker, wasn't he? Oh my God, they were amazing. They were amazing. And so I've got a little bit of a soft spot for them, so I ended up. But they still, they let you get really fucking close, and then they flap up in your face. They've got wings. What are they supposed to do?

Run away. Yeah, they've also got legs. Yes, but they're birds. I mean if you had the choice of getting away from someone If they got really close to you and you had wings What would you choose to run off the fly? Tell you what they could do to keep everybody happy It's just not letting me get so close

Just keep out my way And then not fluff up in my face Have you not got enough space? Not in London. Have you tried walking through London With pigeons and tourists? Can I just say? I can't tell which I hate more.

So Bali reads a book called Daisy in the Trouble With It's an amazing series of books It's an incredible series of books Daisy is The Trouble with London Johnny very sweetly used to read it with her and then he said we're going to go to London we're going to go to all the things that Daisy did so one of the things she did

is she goes to Trafalgar Square to see the pigeons to feed the pigeons so he got all the pigeon feed went down there big sign don't feed the pigeons it doesn't matter there's no pigeons anymore

there's no pigeons in Trafalgar Square anymore stop it honestly they've got like a hawk or something they must have done we're going to have to post this on the socials but there is a brilliant reel of this girl in a

it looks like they're in some European square like Italy or somewhere loads of pigeons everywhere and this girl's maybe five or six she just bends down she just grabs the pigeons by the tail and she's like this one's for you daddy she's like straight in there

just grabs something it's brilliant yeah you can you just grab them like chickens you grab them quickly grab them quickly no thank you anyway the next time that you you walk past there

maybe you won't see them as vermin because they still think they can trust us they still think that's why they can you feel it now you feel it now You feel it now, and they're highly intelligent. And, you know, they're also, they mate for life. They mate for life as well.

Do they there? They do, and they can get up to like 90 miles and out. They're really fast motherfuckers. And so next time you see one, okay, I want you to just take the time to consider that. And also follow at little greenpigeon.com. Is that where you got all your information? Yeah.

Okay. No, that's actually... All right, I'm going to try and give pigeons a go. Have some respect for the pigeons. I'm going to try. Mm-hmm. But they scare me. Anyway, also, we had a pigeon once nesting outside our bathroom window in our flight in Wilson Green, and for some reason, really, it had baby pigeons, and then they fled the nest, they left the nest.

Sorry, how ugly are baby pigeons, though? Well, I don't know, and you don't often see them. Nobody ever sees them, but I did a loft extension once, and my God, they are, they are really ugly. Well, what's really ugly about them is that they have these things called bird mites, and once they left the nest, the bird mites had nothing to feed on, right, or to live on. Not your children again. No, not my children. Through my bathroom, I don't have children at this point. Oh, okay.

Through my bathroom window, suddenly, I woke up one morning. I was still teaching, so it's 6 o'clock in the morning. And there was this, what looked like, this sort of black oil dripping down the wall into the toilet. Oh, my God. And as I got closer, I realized it was not any kind of liquid. It was millions of tiny bugs, which at the time I didn't know what they were, because I'd never heard of bird mites before. I got up and I was like, what is this? Vacuumed some of them up, bleached it, thought.

that was it done, though you think cockroaches are going to survive a nuclear war. Bird mites are horrendous. And then Jimmy said before, I said bird mites, whatever, just sort them out. He said, whatever you do, don't Google them. Obviously, the first thing I fucking did was Google them. It was stories of people like these bird mites live on me. I cannot get rid of them. They're in my ears. I've tried to commit suicide twice because of these bird mites. Once you've got them, you can't get rid of them. Obviously, it's all bollocks, by the way. But I read enough of it to be like literally by the time Jimmy came home that night, I was rocking in the corner crying going, covered in bleach, covered in bleach, but swallowing it. You know, I was like, this is the only

thing I can do. Oh my God. Anyway, we got a exterminator out by about midnight. Jimmy was like, we're going to have to do this now. It's an emergency. Like I was climbing the walls. Oh, I'm not surprised. So we got like, we were wandering around Wilson Green, two in the morning, waiting for the exterminator to finish. Oh, my God. Anyway, that was terrifying. So bird mites and pigeons. I another reason why I don't like pigeon. All right, okay. But just remember, you know, they won more medals and stuff. Okay.

Maybe I like them a little bit. Okay. Well, my week, I don't know if I've mentioned it, but... Oh, is it about the book? It's about the book. Boring! Oh, too. It's going to run and run.

I came back to bite me in the ass. Listen, I'm bored of talking about it myself. I've even written that. I've written. I've bored of talking. about it myself um for anybody writing a book is the easy part like i could shit a book out for breakfast honestly you do write really quickly that's not the problem but they're selling the book unless you are jk rolling or richard osmond i swear to god it is a pint of flesh for every single

sale every single cell i'm exhausted and also it's basically the most soul-destroying ego crushing humility-inducing dignity-defying exercise ever because you're just begging all the time yeah you're begging famous people and people with following going, can you take a copy of my book? Will you go into my launch party? Can you post about it? And then they get a couple and you have to chase them up going, you wouldn't mind doing a post with you. Like, it's just fucking tedious. Oh, God. But obviously I'm very grateful to have the chance to publish a book.

But I just, it's a lot. Not a plug for the book. There must be an easier way. There must be, but I don't know what it is. Listen, what I'm trying to say is, it's been a lot. Yeah, can I imagine? It's been a lot. You need some kind of publicity stunt. Well, I thought what I would do is put signs up

around London that says, Jimmy, I've caught you, I've got proof, and then a QR code that says, scan this for the pictures, but then it takes them to my Amazon book page. Oh, clever. Yeah. But I don't think Jimmy, I've caught, yeah, it needs something that's related to the book potentially. Well, I don't know, I saw somebody do it with, it was not my idea, I saw some of you do it with a...

Oh, you stole it. Yeah, sold it. Someone else. It's jewelry, marketing. Worked brilliantly. Okay, we'll see We'll work on that We'll work on that

We'll spitball it as they say We'll spitball it It needs to work It's got legs But it needs some work What else? That's honestly it Like it's just boring books stuff

It's a lot It's a lot There's not much else I've got room for I've had to cancel all my social stuff You know Yeah I'm getting there though You're not that sociable really anyway

No I hate people That wasn't a lot It wasn't a lot canceling was it When people are like Listen I think you should cancel some stuff I'm like Where's my red pen I'm so sorry I can't come

I've been told to cancel stuff scale it back people say I need to look after myself I love it I love you I don't like going out I don't really like people so it's it's been perfect in that sense but yeah you know I'm looking forward to getting back to a more even keel

so buy the book and then I can stop vlogging it thanks please and it is good as well it is good right so here on you never the only one we provide you with a melt pot of topics, we can be low brow at times. Most of the time. Most of the time. And occasionally, we provide you some highbrow entertainment, if not informative.

Yeah. Entertainment, sometimes informative. Yeah. I was trying to think what kind of brow we were, and what I came up with is that we are the overplucked 90s brow. Yeah. Because once you started, there's no going back. That's true.

And it's also, there's only so good you can get. Do you know what I mean? We're never going to be the perfect brow. No. But we might be a good enough brow. Yeah, we're not the same. With a little bit of work and effort and some polishing. And this week at is taking the lead on the topic.

I am. You are. So I, this is inspired by personal experience, which is always generally where our topics come from. But I want to talk about you. You're never the only one who thinks we're doing sex ed all wrong. Now, I, there's so much to say about this. And once I open to this kind of worms,

let me tell you the internet delivered. I don't know what your experience was of sex ed. said at school, I don't remember getting any at primary school. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. I have the memory of a demented goldfish, but I do not have any recollection of it. I have a vague recollection of getting something in biology at secondary school, but I certainly don't remember any, if I got anything, it was very much the nuts and bolts of it, so to speak. It was the pregnancy stuff. It wasn't anything beyond that. I think that was the same for me. From what I can remember.

Did you get taught I to put a condom on? I know there was lots to talk about people with bananas and condoms. We didn't. I don't think we did that. We were in all girls boarding school. Oh, me too. I don't know if that was anything to do with it. I think I learned everything through my mates.

And just 17? And more magazine. More magazine. Position of the fortnight. Was it Fortnite or month? It was Fortnite, wasn't it? Fortnight. So what I've realized, though, is having kids of my own now, the conversation has come full circle

because they do teach this stuff in primary school. Yeah. And I don't know. I'm sure that this is the case with every primary school, but we were invited down to go to the school to talk about what they were going to be teaching our kids in the sex education element of PSHE, which I think we established was something to do

with personal, social health education. And I sat there in a room full of all the other parents and they went on to talk about what they were going to teach and all the rest of it. And they put the diagrams up, which were like, these are the diagrams we're going to use. used to show the sex parts, boys and girls. Now, first of all, they were dry as fuck.

Well, there was no, like, there were just line drawings. Oh, okay. With, like, arrows, right? So no, like, you know, like with the book, we used to get the Usborn Body Book, and in there it was like a proper drawing of a proper body with a little bit of pubic hair, you know, just a bit more realistic.

Yeah. None of that. Every part of the boys' bits were labelled. foreskin, shaft, balls, they've obviously said testicles, the whole shaback. The girls, only the bits related to any kind of reproductive function were labelled, not even the vulva. And I have a big, big bee in my bonnet about this, because I was in my 30s when I realized that what I had been calling my vagina my entire life was actually my vulva, because I was never taught it.

So that wasn't labelled, clitoris wasn't labelled. Can I just ask why, is this for medical reasons you think it's in? important that it's called the vulva and not just the vagina. Well no it's just it's like it's like calling your nose your elbow it's just not yeah but right but when do you need it to well this is exactly the point in terms of girls I do a lot of work with the eve appeal and they're very very insistent on the education around naming parts because you have to give kids the language and girls a language to be able to describe accurately what's wrong with them right okay that's what we're going to get to is it the medical if they're saying or if somebody's touching them in

an appropriate way. You know, they need to have the right language to be able to describe what's wrong. Yeah. They need to know what something should look like so they know when it looks different. Yeah. You know, all of that sort of stuff,

but they need to be able to have the language. But there's no reason or why we shouldn't be giving kids the names of their body parts. Yeah. Anyway, that all aside, I put my hand up because I'd seen these documents. I was like, of course she fucking did. Let me tell you,

this was a tough half hour for everybody involved. but I was relentless. Pull my hand up and I said, why isn't the vulva and the clitoris labelled? Yes. Mortified. I mean, nobody had an answer. They were mortified.

They didn't have the words. It was like they were stumbling. They were like, and I was just like, I don't understand why these aren't naughty words. These are the words of their body parts. We can't just like ignore them, delete them from the experience because the girls know they have them.

Yeah. But they don't know what they are or what they're doing. Let's teach them this. So that didn't go down, went down like a shit sandwich. Did any other parents have anything to say on it? No, no, no. My area is very ethnically diverse. Yeah.

So there's a lot of different approaches to the sex education, which is part the reason why we're in the hall in the first place, because, and this is the other thing I have a bug bear about, parents are allowed to remove their children from these classes. And this is my opinion. It does not need to be discussed as being right or wrong. I think I disagree with that. Yeah.

I just disagree with that. I think it reinforces shame. I don't think it's the parents who are happy to talk about it and give them a proper education at home. It's not those parents. It's the parents who don't want to talk about it at all. It's a cultural thing a lot of the time, isn't it? It's a cultural thing that's, and I get that.

Yeah. I understand that. But I also, culture aside, all girls need this information. It is not information that you can pick, cherry pick, and go, you don't need to know that. All girls should have this information. But that's my opinion, you do you, boo. Anyway, we moved on, and they started talking to us

about how they were going to teach periods. And you can tell everybody's on edge at this point. Waiting for you to be a hand up probably. Because let me tell you what they said. They were going to separate the boys and the girls. Yeah. Because, and I quote, to make the boys more comfortable. And they were going to have, this is my favourite bit,

they were going to get a woman to teach the girls. girls about periods and they were going to get a man to teach the boys about periods. Yeah, this is exactly what they've done in our school as well. So, obviously, my hand went up, everybody's like, fucking hell, this bitch. Head teacher, like this, his head in his hands. He's just like, I'm not, I'm not backing off this. This is important to me. I've got two girls. You've got us here for this reason if you don't want our feedback.

We're going to have this conversation. I don't care how uncomfortable everybody is. We're fucking doing it. And I said, I'd like to know why you're separating them in the first place and why on Earth, on what planet, do we think that a man teaching boys about periods is the right way to do this? And they were like, well, we thought, reinforced, we thought we just, it would make the boys more comfortable. Oh, my God.

Well, did you just, I can't even imagine what you're, I said, my priority is not about making boys feel comfortable. Go on. It's about putting boys and girls in a room and talking about this stuff in a way that I don't care of them. Let's make the boys feel a little bit uncomfortable. Let's get them out of that. Let's get them through that discomfort when they're nine or ten. So that they're not still being uncomfortable about it at 16 or 17, 26, 26, 46, 46. Let's, they are going to be uncomfortable. We have to make them uncomfortable. Fucking let's do it. It is a bit uncomfortable. None of us want to sit here and talk about sex and vulvents and vaginas, but we're here, so let's fucking do it properly. And also we're not having a man teaching boys about periods because they don't fucking know. Yeah. It's not just, yes, all right, you can talk about the logistics of it.

You can talk about the biology and how the egg goes and the uterus lining and we bleed for five days and don't die. We can talk about all of that. But the reality is it's more than that. It's about the hormones. It's about how it makes a woman feel. It's about how she is a different human being sometimes when this is happening. It's about PMT and what that is.

Endometriosis. Why are we not talking about that? Policistic ovaries. Men cannot teach this stuff because they don't know. Like, all right, they can get out of a textbook. But you want a woman going, this is really important because when you, if that's the way you choose to go, live with a woman and decide to attach your life to a woman,

you're going to need to know this shit. And it's not on her to teach you. You should come fucking prepared. Oh my God, you're amazing. I would have been like that. Yeah, we didn't go down very well. Was there any other, like, parents said there were... I mean, there was a few.

But, you know, I'm goby and there's not very many people who are willing to put the head above the parapet. And I get it. But I just think it's one of these things that we aren't challenging enough. Because even the education that they're getting is bare minimum. Nobody's talking about pleasure in sex. Nobody's talking about, we're not talking about masturbation. We're not talking about any of those things. We're not talking about the nuance of like relationships and sex and the feelings and all of that stuff.

we're not talking, all we're doing is fear mongering. A lot of it is like pregnancy, diseases, that was certainly what it was in the 80s and 90s. It was like, this is all about how not to get pregnant. It's accurate. And if you use, if you don't use a condom, you'll probably get AIDS and die. And can I just say, I think it's even more important now because in those times we didn't have,

and we were discussing this a bit earlier when I said to you, children didn't have access to social media like they do now and younger than they are they should be but that's up to parents but the fact is that they're going to see stuff which is way older than they should be yeah and you know yeah I mean it's better that it's controlled but it's but it's also it's like there's you know how much talk is there about consent at primary school age like there wasn't any discussion of it in the chat that we had

and I think that's when we need to be talking about consent. So, because at primary, don't they do it, don't they do it, they do it, they do it, they do it, they do it, they do it? Well, I think they do PSHE incrementally. I think they, I think it's like year four, five where they do the juicy stuff. Right, okay. I think it's year five. But for me, it just feels like we compartmentalize it too much. It's like, right, let's do sex. Yeah. But there's no, like, relationships, stuff. There's no pleasure stuff. There's no, you're not joining the fucking dots between that

and when you need to say, no, that's not okay to somebody. Or this is what you need to call this part. Like, it's just all the dots aren't joined up. Yeah. And I just think that we're so afraid of teaching this thing because it's still so much shame around it. Yeah. Which still, people are embarrassed.

People don't want to use the right words, which all of that feeds into our kids. It's like we know it. Like our kids giggle when it's sex and then they vomit. You know, it's like they are automatically uncomfortable about that stuff. That doesn't come from nowhere. That comes from our whole society's fucking approach to this, to sex. And specifically to female bodies is being shameful, something we don't talk about,

the words, all the rest of it. And it just needs to change. Yeah, there's a really wonderful charity actually called Respected that provide. Because it's really outdated, like you say, what they're, providing in schools. Hugely. And some schools, particularly if they are religious, certain religious schools, don't even get me started.

They won't even do that, they don't even do it at all. And so this, and it's actually, we started by a doctor, and she's come up with all the information you possibly need, she's done videos, it's really engaging. It's also, you know, it's done with younger people in it, so it's not some old nun kind of, or fuddy-duddy kind of saying, something that puts children on, it's really engaging for their age group. And she sells it as a package to schools. and that's what the charity's about.

And it's a really smart idea. But the problem is if half the kids are taken out of that class, what's the point? Because all they're going to do is they're not in that class. The kids come out, they go, what did you learn in that class? Kids tell them their version of what they learned in that class, which, let's be honest, is going to be inaccurate at best.

And then this whole thing is just messy. I do not think kids should be allowed to be taken out of it. This is not anything to be ashamed of. This is biologist. It's like saying, can I take my kid out of trigonometry? So you think it should be mandatory? I do think it should be mandatory. Yeah, I do.

100% I do. And I think it's about safety and I think it's about empowerment and I think it's about protection and I do think it should be 100% compulsory. I'd really be interested to hear people's take on that. Me too. Also, the discussion about consent just on that,

there's something I wanted to say. There's a great meme that's about making a cup of tea for somebody. We'll put it in the link. We'll put it in the show notes. We'll post it on social. that's a great way to teach consent. It's brilliant. But my friend in America Reagan, who I love, she's my parenting guru, she's just brilliant. She has two boys. And from as soon as they were talking and playing and interacting with other kids, she was very, very clear about you cannot

put your hands. Like, she's always been, you do not put your hands on people. Like, this is a consent issue. And she started it in a very non-sexual way, which was leaning into like also pushing and shoving and all of that. But it also has like, as they've got older, she's like this is what we do not put our hands on girls like you know so for her it was just right from the start consent is a really big important point boys need to be taught it girls need to be girls need to understand that they can exercise it yeah that's the other problem you know I spent a lot of time shagging boys and kissing boys I didn't really want to because I'd sort of got a little bit do you know what I mean yeah we need to be and all of this is the same stuff like teaching biology

the mechanics of it but if we're doing it in PSHE and calling it social education it's got to be more rounded it's got to be more nuanced we've got to be joining up the dots that's tricky that consent though aside from the kind of sexualised side of it like kind of the obviously in the playground not being able

to play what tag or not being I mean how far are we going with it? It's not saying you can't put hands on people it's like there has to be consent so any time you put your hands on somebody without consent you're at risk so it's like oh we're going to play this game who wants to play that's consent

yes okay totally Okay, okay. But if it's like, you know, we're slapping bottoms or whatever or even slapping arms or whatever and we haven't... There's a lot of that that happens at primary and I've had to go to the teacher, like the head teacher and just so that's not okay. And it's not the fault of the people that are doing it.

Like kids are kids and they mess around, that's fine. But we've got to educate them on this stuff. Like they're allowed to make that mistake, but we have to be able to have a conversation that's like, you know, you can't really do that without the consent of the other person. You know, and I just think we're too shy in attacking this subject properly because inevitably if you go a little bit deeper

you have to go really deep and then you talk and I think we're backing off from it too much yeah maybe I'm wrong I don't know we have got lots of what do we call it

oh god my brain my brain hello where are you people have interacted with the topic did you put it out there yeah I did course it did who didn't of course that's like my one job when I've got doing it So here we go.

We got an email that said, ooh, this is how it starts. Ooh, sex ed. Again. How many O's? One, two, three, four. Wow. But again, you know,

she's been waiting to get this off a chest for a long time. Let's hear it. This is the place. My deputy head at high school delivered sex education and she was ace. Love this.

The delivery, that is. The content, archaic, heavy, factual textbook, blah, blah, blah. Clearly didn't work. My husband attended the same school and thought a period lasted 28 days with a week off.

And that two condoms were better than one. Wow. I know. I had to be the educator with this one. Funnily enough, in menopause, it does feel like

appearing in the last 28th. That's true. You've got one week off. 100%. And actually, aside from the bleeding, mine kind of does. As in like... The emotional side of it.

Yeah. It does feel like it's most of the month. Maybe you're just a cunt. I don't know of that. Yeah, sometimes that happens. School, we walked in and sat down, and this is how they taught it. We walked in and sat down.

Bullocks, she announced. Plums, balls. What about Dixon? Fanny's. Right on cue, the entire class did a collection of belly laughs, gasps, and sheer silent, dumbfounded expression, but it worked. She broke the ice and made a potentially awkward encounter less cringy. The content was dull as fuck, though. I have what people maybe would consider a dangerous or liberal approach, which I think I'd probably agree with. Obs it has to be age appropriate and the content delivery versus the content delivery at the

course. That's the other thing. It's like we can still talk about this stuff. Of course it has to be age appropriate. Yeah. But my opinion is, don't lie. Tell them sex feels better without a condom, but the consequences are potentially devastating and use real examples of a teen mum, someone with AIDS, a cauliflower cock from an STD. Wow. Also tell them the first time is shit, utterly shit and not this grand movie-esque rom-con experience. But also teach them about pleasure. It's not like a porno. Women need to be coaxed to that point of explosion. Funnily enough, the Wham-Bam jackhammer technique does fuck all,

apart from give you a UTI. Let's talk about masturbation and vibrators. It doesn't mean you have to give up your virginity, have sex with yourself. Maybe it's not the answer, but this fucked archaic school system is doing jack shit in my opinion. Or you could have a mum like mine, prudish as hell, got tanked off a Guinness six-pack, stumbled into my room and queried, slurred to 16-year-old me, do you know about gobbling? Sorry. I hadn't read the end of that. That's the first time I read that. Oh my God, that's brilliant. I love that the mum decided to get pissed. And her opening line was, do you know about gobbling?

Gobbling. Gobling. Gobbling. Not even sexually, just gobbling. Gobble-gobble. You talk about it, well. Oh, I do have a gobble-gobble. It's very onomatopoeic.

Is that goshing off? I think so, yeah. Oh, okay. Noshing off. She went straight in there. Yeah. Do you know about gobbling? Do you know, I like, I hope she's northern.

Do you know about gobbling? Gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble. I want to know what came next after that. Where'd you gobbling? I think she just won't get out now. And off she fucking popped. So that is brilliant. I do largely agree with that.

I do think there's a lot of chat about, in fact, on the masturbation topic, somebody said, okay, tell me why my 10-year-old needs to know about masturbation. Why does she need to know how babies are made? Let her be a child for a while longer. I get the sentiment. Oh, sorry, yeah.

But I go back to my old thing, we've got to accept the world the way it is and not the way we want it to be. And the fact is, don't think it's harming your children to learn about their own bodies. Like, I think this is a social thing that we are placing on top of this, which is this is destroying their innocence or whatever. It's fucking biology.

I was about to say it is biology. It's biology. And often that's, you know, I'm not saying this is what you're doing. Whoever's sending that email in, but often we're projecting the shame that we have grown up with. And actually, it's not something to be shameful, talking about your body and self-pleasure and actually I think the way it's been with my girls is that that's something, as long as they've felt that they can

have an open line of communication and talk to me about anything without me shutting it down that actually when they start to discover things themselves, they can talk to me about it. But without going into too much detail from personal experience as a parent, it's really weird how even though I've got that open line of communication, on a journey of discovery, one of them, you know, was feeling shame around it anyway.

Yeah. It's like it's deeply ingrained. It is. It's crazy. And I was like, what are you talking? And I got, I brought her dad in and we like spoke about it. Do you know what I mean? But then I've got my mum, who's even if they go to itch themselves and I stop, don't touch that. Don't do that. So weird, isn't it? It's like, this is where they get it from. Yeah. This is where they get it from. And it's nobody's fault because, listen I hate you know the patriarchy

got off Scott Free last episode didn't they we don't even mention it once well we're bringing it in again this is what it is you know women have been made to feel shame about their bodies especially their vaginas

and their vulvas and all of that stuff like how many times did you hear like fishy fanny all of this stuff as a kid do you know what I mean like it was always nobody ever talked about the fact

that a cox smell cox smell yeah like boys do not wipe the wee off their willy they give it a shake and then that wee dries on their penis

And it smells of wee. Yeah. And it tastes of wee, boys. Just saying. I'm not wrong, am I? No. No. So I get it.

And I do think, you know, but I don't think this is the place where we should be shielding our children. I also had this, which is brilliant. This was her version of sex education. We just watched a video. Hold on a minute. Just a follower, sorry. Okay. Followers version of sex education.

She said, we just watched a video. They showed a cartoon erection, and a boy in the class shouted, It's Pinocchio! Everyone laughed, so they turned it off, and that was pretty much it. Right, hold on a minute. A cartoon erection. So I'm trying to imagine what this looks like. Is it literally just a balls and penis, bing?

Or is it attached to a cartoon boy? In my mind, it's a side-on. Yeah, it's from the side, yeah. And I think it's just a, like, waist to top of the thigh. Right. And you just see it go like that. Right. Okay.

And I think Pinocchio is a perfect response. It's a perfect response. Yeah. In so many ways. Pinocchio went out, didn't he? Yeah. Well, he grew outwards. Yeah.

So, you know, I'm just thinking this is more of a kind of the trajectory is like that. It's true. You're not wrong. If it went like that, I would feel. You know how sometimes Emma talks about how she overthinks things? No, but you know, when you just think, I feel like it's bad. Because for boys, I feel bad like, like Johnny said to me, it sounds like if you sit on the train and it happens.

You know, are they being class? It just happened. Am I, but this is true, isn't it? He's nodding our producer. This is when we need a male's, you know. Perspective. Input. But you imagine if it just went.

Yeah, like it was being searched you on a plane. You can't talk that in your waistband, can you, Ben? No. You see? Because that's what they do, don't they? They're talking in their waistband. Yeah, if you've got a big bang-a-lang, you can't. Jesus, that's two episodes now.

We've done it, two episodes. Sorry. Two out of two. Sorry. Should we do some voice notes? Yes, please. I love the voice notes. I love it too.

Hang on, here we go. I think we've even got a man. I know. I'm scared for him a little bit. No, no, I wouldn't be. Let me find it, obviously. It helps to be prepared. You are so prepared today, Cam.

Not even slightly. You need to connect to the bloody alfire. Sorry about those kids. Just hold, please, call her. You'd be such a good headmistress. Do you think she'd be a good headmistress? I... Because you'd used to be a teacher, didn't you?

I did used to be a teacher. I think you'd be a really great headmistress. I don't know whether you would have been before, but now, I'd be well chuffed if you were my headmistress. If you were my kids' headmistress. Would you? They would definitely be sitting sex. said, let me tell you. Yeah, I know. I'd love it.

I love your take on it. Right, here we go. Here's the first one. Go on. If someone's kid is actually coming home from school and letting their moms and dads know what's happening in their primary school sex ed, then I would love to know what the parents are putting in that kid's water.

I know what's going on at school. Not quite sure how it's landing, But from my own experience, I did have sex education in the seventh grade in middle school. But my real sex education came the year after when I started learning from my peers what all the naughty stuff was. And being able to sort of contextualize it, I think that from my experience, the sex ed was very much biologically based. It was very sort of anatomy, what it does. and it didn't really link up in my brain about that, you know, that that is the activity. Yes, that's the thing. We're not joining the dots.

Makes babies and not the, you know, I didn't put it together. So my, I just, I remember I didn't, we didn't have chats about it at home and I lost my virginity and I was in so much pain that I told my mom because I was worried that something was wrong. And she took me to the condomile and like that was it. everything else I sort of was dripped down from my peers and I kind of suspect

that that's what's happening in school as well I have spoken to both my children about it already I wanted to get a lead on it I wanted to use my words and really not skirt around the issue and just be quite frank and direct and

it seems to have landed but I don't know I don't know It's honestly I think if we were to teach actually what hand jobs were what blow jobs were what oral sex was

To year fives No not necessarily to year five But certainly to secondary school kids Like we're talking about like grading this But like I think it would take a lot of the I think you'd find people Kids would be less willing to do it Honestly if I've been told as a kid

That part of sex would include nothering somebody off, I think I would have stayed away from it for a lot longer than I did. The noshing off part or the sex part? Well, probably all of it. I mean, I don't even know why I've already started. Nothing but trouble.

Nothing but fucking trouble. I love my kids. Karen. No, we shouldn't use Karen anymore, should we? I've got a really good friend called Karen. And she says the last few years have been really hard. She said it's been really hard. I mean, it's funny, don't get me wrong, but I'm not lying.

She's like, it's been really hard if you're a Karen. If your name's Karen, the last few years have been really hard. If you're not, you know, if you're not, you know, anyway, the girl who started all this, you know, it was the girl in the park with the dog. Do you remember? No. Anyway, her name was Amy. So I don't know where Karen came from.

Anyway, all Karen's out there. Not, you know. Anyway, I digress. All right, so you think we should be teaching secondary school children. Yeah, just get it. out there get it. So this is, hold on a minute. I'm trying to get my head around this. You're talking about teaching like 11 year olds about blow jobs. No. Well then what? I'm talking about, okay, I'm talking about at some point, by the time these kids are 14, 15, they should have been taught

about sex as not just a functional thing where you can get a disease or pregnant, but sex as something you are going to do for fun. This is why you need to use a condom. This is how you put a condom on. Two is not necessary, by the way. This is part of sex. Sex isn't just penis in a vagina. Sex is also blow jobs. I mean, oral sex. I mean, we don't have to use blow jobs

if you don't want to. Everybody knows what we're talking about. But it's all sorts of other things. Yeah. Nobody sat me down and went, this is what sex also is. I just thought sex was penis in a vagina. Like, I just think we're leaving them to figure it out by themselves.

They are going to figure it out. We're leaving it to the internet nowadays. giving to the internet or to them to figure it out. But I guarantee there's a lot of people that are sat in that classroom with you watching that who let their kids on YouTube or, you know, Instagram or TikTok. Yeah. And it's like, and won't let them in the sex-air class. But I would rather my daughter found out what a blowjob was from a class where everybody

was finding out at the same time, then found herself suddenly with a boy who decided to suddenly start pushing her head down a bit. Yeah. And then doing that. Like, that doesn't feel good to me. I want her to know what that's all about before she finds herself in that position. Yeah.

I don't care if that makes me sound bonkers. That's what I'd rather. No, no, no. And if school aren't going to do it, I'm going to have to teach her about blow jobs. And frankly, I'd rather school did it. Oh, God. That's, that.

Oh, no. No, do you know what I mean? Oh, I don't want to have to do that. Yeah. I don't want to have to do that. What happens if, like, also, what happens if a boy tries to put it in the wrong hole? I think she'd know about it.

I think she would know about it, but not necessarily if it was her first time. she might not. No. If nobody's mentioned that anal sex is a thing. I've got to tell you this. Okay, so when I moved to where I moved to,

so a friend of mine told me a story and she picked up her daughter, a daughter said, can you come and get me from this party? I'm not comfortable. I want to go home. And when she got there, all the kids were in the, they're at 15 years old,

they're all in the garden, all doing anal. And she was like, what? I think you might have told us this story, but for new listeners there, I do think it's worth going back to the well a second time. Okay, so basically it's because apparently it's quite a trend now.

It's what they're doing. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong guys here. I'm not at that stage yet. But it was backed up by an article I read in GQ because basically it means they don't see it as losing their virginity. They can't get pregnant. Do you what I mean? And then this article, I thought, this is bullshit. She's lying or whatever.

I saw this article in GQ and I read it about this doctor who was moving out the suburbs because she was like, I cannot deal with the amount of. of teenagers I've got coming in with anal prolapse. Now, this is the result of what happens when you don't teach kids about sex as an activity. Right. Do you know

what I mean? Yeah. When you don't teach them about when you don't get into the weeds of it, for one of a better phrase, or into the bushes of it, you know, because they're all in the bushes doing anal, apparently. Do I mean? Like, I don't want that. I want my daughter. If she wants to do it, this is a very, like,

I'd never thought I'd have to say this sentence out loud. My daughter wants to have anal sounds. That needs to be on her terms because she knows all about it and that's what she's decided she wants to do. Yeah. Not because she's worried about getting pregnant or whatever.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I would really love to hear from some parents of teens and how you've navigated. I mean, personally, I would love to hear that, you know, kind of how you've navigated this and what, tell me what those kind of conversations, what they entailed?

Agreed. Should we do the boys' WhatsApp? The voice note. Yeah. Yeah. Sex education in the 90s was, I think, only just fearmongering and a desperate attempt to make sure people didn't get pregnant. Women didn't get pregnant.

I don't really remember any talk of consent or even a pleasure. I definitely put a condom on a... Banana. some sort of fruit or veg I can't quite remember I don't really remember being taught much about vaginas

mainly just how to put a condo on and probably the scientific detailed drawings of our organs that's it and that's it and that's all we get and that's basically what I think most of us got

Yeah. And I don't think... I don't remember getting that. And I don't even think that they're getting much more now. I think it's dressed up in a bit of a fancier outfit. Like, oh, look how forward thinking we are. You know, we're teaching 11-year-olds. But let's also be honest, nine-year-olds are having periods.

So it is not too soon to be teaching this stuff. And just on masturbation, that's a really important thing as well, because it was a conversation I was forced to have very early on. Because there are lots of kids that find that. Yeah. as a mode of comfort, as young, 18 months old, you'll find them like humping things, right?

That's really common. And so as those children get older, I'm trying not to drop my daughter in it, but here we are. But like as children get older, they don't necessarily know to stop that, right? So we had to have a conversation about how it was really normal and natural, but that it's also something that you do in private, not on the bus or on the sofa when we've got friends around.

Do you know what I mean? Like, bless her, her little bunnies taken and hammering. But it was just a natural form of comfort that she discovered her. You said that was how she put herself to sleep nine times out of ten when she was little. Well, I hear her. So, you know, masturbation is, it's not a dirty word, it's not a bad thing. Yeah. We only ever, if anybody talks about masturbation, we talk about it with boys and teens, obviously,

you know, the crusty socks and the sheets that you can break in half and all of that shit. It's a lot more about male men. So always, of course there is. Always. You know, women are really, really fucking hard done by. And I think because I've got girls and you've got girls, I do take this more serious. Because at the end of the day, if they're not given this information,

it's not, you know, it's not men that really suffer. Like women end up pregnant. Like at the end of the day, they're the ones that end up with babies. They're the ones that end up, you know, nine times out of ten, you know, women's biggest predator is man. That is a fact. And so, you know, they're the ones that if they don't know, they're not empowered enough to know enough about their body

and to know what's consent and what's not. The women are the ones that end up hurt, generally. It's not always, I understand that. But, you know, I just think, it makes my blood boil that there are women who are mothers. And again, I'm going to get a lot of you upset, and I don't mean it's just my opinion. It doesn't mean it's right.

I struggle with women who are mothers who do not agree with giving our kids as much fucking information. at an appropriate time in an appropriate way as we possibly can, and I do think that's younger than most people think it is. Meaty one. Meaty one, Cathy. Me too.

I think we're going to get quite a lot of feedback on that. If you're someone who wants to have their say on sex ed, if it's being done right, isn't being done right, your experiences personally, if it affected your life, then we'd love to hear from you. As always, you can have your say or share your stories on any of the things. the topics that we've covered on the podcast. That's true.

So make sure you email us at You're Never The Only One at Gmail.com or send us a message or voice note and if it's a voice note no longer than 90 seconds please at 07457407404 or DM us on Instagram at You're Never the Only One.

That's it. I think we're done for this week, can't we? We are. Next week you're taking the helm. I think we're going to have to change that one. I can't know, because it's just... You're just thinking of helmet. That's what it is.

It's helmet. It's helmet, yeah. Taking the helm. Yes. I am. We're staying on them on the kind of along the same lines of kids really in the sense of like the growing up of children. So I... Well, the thing that they naturally do.

The natural... I know, you're never the only one. And I don't like young children. I'm still struggling with it. Exactly. Who basically struggling with their children growing up. I miss those pillowy soft cheeks. I just...

And I miss it in a, in a way that just actually... actually makes me sad and brings me to tears. I feel like I just, I've woken up and they've gone and I didn't enjoy it. And I just want to, I'm loving the children like, and how they're growing and what they're becoming, but I am mourning the little stuff, the bagel wrists. Do you want to me? The bagel wrists. The way they used to say rocket as wicket.

Do you know what I mean? Finjin, gin, instead of fire engine. Oh my God, you see? Finjinjin. I know I'm not the only one on this. But that's what we're going to be covering next week. So, yeah, that is it. You're never the only one who's struggling with their children growing up.

Brilliant. Well, listen, get in touch with anything. And also not just about that. Get in touch with what we talked about last week, which was something else. What was it? What were we talking about? It feels so long ago now.

I know. It was actually this morning, because obviously we were recording in bulk. Fourth wall broken. Are we going to tell people that? I thought we were keeping that as a secret. No, I've done it on stories now. Oh, balls. Okay, we were talking about kind of not liking your friends, partners, partners, friends and all that.

Anything like that. You can always get in touch. We'll be bringing up old and new information and comments on every episode. And with that, we'll see you next week. Goodbye. Ciao for now. You're never the only one is written and presented by Kat Sims and Emma Nicolay and produced by Radiant Management. Executive producers are Katie Ray and Paramee Kodikara. operations are managed by shell regini who also expertly takes care of the podcast social media and our theme tune everybody makes mistakes is written and performed by the band hot salad Never the only one. Never the only one.

Don't live inside a shame because everybody makes mistakes. You're never the only one. You're never the only one. They live inside your shame because everybody makes mistakes. Thank you.