You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Argentina: We Don’t Trust, We Verify - Agustin Kassis | Ep. 117

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Agustin Kassis is a Bitcoin developer, entrepreneur, and founder of La Crypta in Buenos Aires, Argentina. As a self-taught programmer since age 11 and serial entrepreneur with seven startups, Agustin discovered Bitcoin in its first years. This conversation explores Argentina's unique position as a potential Bitcoin adoption leader, shaped by decades of currency destruction, hyperinflation, and distrust of government institutions.We dive deep into the grassroots Bitcoin movement in Argentina, the role of La Crypta as an education and community hub, and how Argentinians' natural rebellion against monetary systems creates fertile ground for Bitcoin adoption. Agustin discusses the challenges of onboarding merchants and individuals, the competition with the crypto industry (including stablecoins), and the importance of maintaining Bitcoin's decentralized nature against capture. We also explore President Milei's impact on Argentina, the cultural shift happening in the country, and why he believes ideology and values matter more than technical knowledge & NGU when identifying true Bitcoiners.→ Please like, comment, share & follow — to help me beat the suppressing algo's. Thank you!– SPONSORS –→ Get your TREZOR wallet & accessories, with a 5% discount, using my code at checkout (get my discount code from the episode - yep, you’ll have to watch it): https://affil.trezor.io/SHUn→ Have you tried mining bitcoin? Stack sats directly to your wallet while saving on taxes with Abundant Mines: https://AbundantMines.com/Efrat - Claim your free month of hosting via this link– AFFILIATES –→ Get 10% off on Augmented NAC to detox Spike protein, with the code YCXKQDK2 via this link: https://store.augmentednac.com/?via=efrat (Note, this is not medical advice, please consult your MD)→ Join me at Europe’s largest bitcoin conference - BTC Prague, June 11-13, 2026. Code EFRAT for 10% off: http://btcprg.me/EFRAT→ Be good to your eyes & health, and get the Daylight tablet - a healthier, more human-friendly computer, zero blue light & flicker. Use code EFRAT for $25 off: https://bit.ly/Efrat_daylight → Get a second citizenship and a plan B to relocate to another country with Expat Money, leave your details for a follow up: https://expatmoney.com/efrat→ Watch “New Totalitarian Order” conference with Prof. Mattias Desmet & Efrat - code EFRAT for 10% off: https://efenigson.gumroad.com/l/desmet_efrat→ Join me in any of these upcoming events: https://www.efrat.blog/p/upcoming-events– LINKS –Agustin on X: https://x.com/agustin_kassis  Nostr: https://primal.net/agustin La crypta: https://lacrypta.ar/en  Efrat’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/efenigsonEfrat’s Channels: https://linktr.ee/efenigsonWatch on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/yourethevoiceSupport Efrat’s work: ⁠https://bit.ly/zap_efrat– CHAPTERS – 00:00 - Coming Up01:53 - Introduction of Augustin Kassis03:30 - Argentinian’s Currency Failure History 07:42 - Finding Bitcoin & Entrepreneurship 10:35 - Programming Languages & Technology’s Role Today16:00 - What Makes Someone a True Bitcoiner?19:46 - Ad Break: Trezor & Abundant Mines23:00 - Starting a Bitcoin Exchange26:00 - Onboarding People to Bitcoin32:11 - La Crypta's Mission: Education Through Experience38:30 - Milei & Argentina's Transformation43:00 - Black Markets, Cash & Dollar Stablecoins46:51 - Ad Break: ExpatMoney & New Totalitarian Order Conference49:40 - Being a Rebel & Milei Fan Simultaneously58:00 - Argentina's Economic Stabilization & Future01:01:20 - Understand Tech & Support Others 01:05:15 - What Drives Augustine?01:07:02 - Walk the Talk: Eat What You Cook

our currencies were always destroyed multiple times since in 50 years we got like five currencies destroyed some of them lasted just one or two years actually but hyperinflation argentinians we don't trust the government nor banks or anything we're like naturally rebelled against the system i was a rebel my whole life actually since i was uh at school i always hate school you know it's like what do you mean i have to be like just memorizing stupid that i'm not gonna use that's the thing you know what do you mean no i get to to meet a lot of people here i need just four or five words to get if he's a big corner or not you you can see that that person is in color and the rest are just black and white if you if you allow everybody to use bitcoin okay we see

manner you kind of lost that you got captured you lost the game like there are a lot of things like big comeback loans for example that i think it's kind of a trap when when you go to a restaurant and you see the menu and the menu is kind of old or shitty on just a broken that means that it hasn't been changed it's a good sign we were used to just be changed every week i hate hypocrisy you know likes a lot i'm very sensitive with that i want people to actually if you're just pushing for something just make sure you actually do it first so how does it work when you are so ideologist and you have strong values and you're such a Bitcoin maxi and you hate the state but you love Millet. The thing is I like him because

um all right hello and welcome i am here with augustine casis how are you augustine i'm fine fine thank you very much where are we we're in la cripta la cripta in buenos aires argentina I'm coming to you from Argentina now. First time, right? First time for me. Thank you for hosting me here. No, no, it's a pleasure. It's a really honor for you coming here to visit.

We need that. This was a massive surprise for me. I had no idea what I'm coming to see. And this house where La Cripta is, is insane. So we did a little video and we will also post the video so people can see the tour you gave me of this house. but let's start with you so tell our audience who you are and what you're doing here in la in argentina okay so my story comes back a little bit from 2013 when i started uh well

first i saw bitcoin in 2011 the first time i did i actually ignored it i said this is not for me well that's not for me i just actually said that this is too good to be true uh i actually i always I always was against the system, especially because I saw a documentary that was called Zeitgeist. Zeitgeist. Zeitgeist, yeah. Sorry for the pronunciation. No, no, no, no. So since then, I was super obsessed for the fact that we were kind of being run by a bunch of people that were using our currency, actually.

And since I'm here in Buenos Aires, my dad, since I was a child, he always told me, do not use Argentine pesos, our local currency. Yep. He said, just use U.S. dollars, which is the currency you need to use. Always use dollars. Why? Why did he say that? Well, because our country has a story of having our coins, our currencies were always destroyed multiple times. In 50 years, we got like five currencies destroyed.

Some of them lasted just one or two years, actually, with hyperinflation. So Argentinians, we don't trust the government, nor banks, nor anything. we are like naturally rebelled against the system so when i saw that uh the u.s dollar wasn't backed by anything and i said like but my dad he told me that it was the most reliable thing that you can have and what do you mean that there's no backed by goals for anything so since then it was like okay but so what now so this was the the actually our only alternative right so since then i was super obsessed with that with that thing and i tried to push as many people as possible hey you need to watch the documentary you know that the money you have there this paper printed they

print it from the outside you know and they are able to from the federal reserve yeah they are able to print as much as they want and we are the one who are holding that so we're a third world country and we are being just kind of our energy is being stolen uh and the thing is like and everybody says even if i if even if what you're saying is true what can i do right yeah you're right but yeah and like i can't do anything so i was uh i was super sad uh when i saw the documentary but i had to let it go right i couldn't do anything so coming back to 2011 i saw that i saw okay this is really good how old were you when you saw the documentary the documentary and i was like uh young maybe 16 17 or something um did you talk to your dad about it i talked with my dad i

said dad what are you doing man you told me that this was the one does he know did he know he said like they put he like sometimes parents pretend fathers maybe did my dad pretended to know everything even if i he didn't know anything yeah of course sit here son yeah i know i knew about already okay so why did you just like push me that i guess response was always like yeah i No, but I don't hold U.S. dollars like I hold them for maybe store about a little bit, but I just buy properties. I just spend my money into different kind of assets. So he wasn't wrong about the U.S. dollar being much more reliable than the peso or than the local currency in Argentina. He was right about that. Yeah. But he wasn't right about the origin.

No, no, no. He wasn't. He wasn't. But the thing was, like, sometimes as our currencies were so shitty here in Buenos Aires, at that moment uh the peso was one peso one dollar we used to have that fixed parity actually for eight years it was kind of stable and even then my my dad always said do not trust never trust our own local currency you never do that and i said but that is one one two one never mind you never trust your government like we're gonna you're gonna get fucked so the thing is uh and when this happened, yeah, maybe he knew about that, of course, or maybe no, whatever. But the thing was like, yeah, people were kind of used to that kind of inflation, you know? It's still

better than ours, inflation. So yeah, I can hold that US dollar. So the point was in 2011, when I saw that again, my first reaction was, well, this is too good to be true. My question was, if you're what you're saying is that i'm able to hold a currency a decentralized currency like neutral one that nobody is able to to change the rules 21 millions whatever but uh you can copy it so you can copy it in a file that was the the first my first approach was what do you mean you can copy if you can copy it no no 21 million everybody's stupid except me that's it and i i discarded discarded right away 2013 i find it again so in 2011 bitcoin was one dollar kind of 2013 i saw it again it was 60 dollars and it was like how come something that can multiply

by 60 first i my first thing was like how could i ignore this first like why didn't i see it and and then i of course i got obsessed i said like i want to just i want to i want to i want you got an answer about the copy the double spend problem yeah yeah the double spend all the blockchain how did it work all the consensus i'm a developer myself yeah so it was maybe it was a little bit easier for me to understand it yes but still it was like uh you know sometimes we get used of of like for now it's simple for us you know it's like oh but simple right they have a couple of blocks and transactions like well what do you need a proof of work and that's it yeah but when you come no oh oh it's so daunting it's very frightening exactly look at all of this like what

no what's happening here and sometimes it happens that uh people find like examples or whatever people that the first explanation for mining was like no miners do uh complicated uh calculations you know that kind of the one i say that is oh what are they doing yeah and so yeah it looks very frightening from the outside and the jargon as well the all the terms all the words that you're using people don't know them it's the first time in their life that they may be hearing those words so we forget that you're right yeah but my but my thing was um like i think internet is the most uh it's the most closed thing that we have with bitcoin like somehow we will manage to create like a neural network yeah on top of on top of that and it's like okay we kind of like yeah it's

decentralized somehow the consensus is a little bit different in this in this thing but uh then i went into the rabbit hole really hard i got obsessed i started uh watching some videos of andreas antonopoulos i believe him he actually represents me he's the big priest the big priest a big priest a high priest yeah yeah he was um so bold when he spoke you know he was um he said like uh he always said that beacon was punk rock you know like uh that that kind of thing i really like that i was a rebel my whole life actually since i was uh at school i always hate school you know it's like what do you mean i have to be like just memorizing stupid shit that i'm not gonna use that's the thing you know what do you mean that no and i've been in five different

schools and i was like always always uh bitching about it and actually i don't have a degree i actually just went out of school and just find myself in having i have like seven startups i always try to build a lot of things you're an entrepreneur and you're autodidact so you teach yourself yeah so you studied programming yourself the thing is when i started programming since i was 11 uh 11 11 yeah yeah i started programming when i was 11 which language uh well i i saw a visual basic visual basic yeah me too really yeah i didn't you are you a developer i have a degree yeah oh i used to do i'm not a developer today no not at all but that's that was my beginning yeah i used to be okay programmer what's your favorite language i don't have a favorite language

because i am not a developer by heart you know but i used to work the most time in c++ that was oh okay well yeah yeah hardcore hardcore hardcore well i think i um i think if i was a programmer this was 20 plus years ago so if i was a programmer today i'm sure i would have loved everything that is closer to ui and more visual and then you know c sharp maybe you know all that stuff i don't know i would pick i would pick for my my favorite language and people hate me for saying that this but i love javascript yeah javascript is great because i know people uh when people sometimes it's such a dorky talk go on no that's good no no but yes like i'm sorry yeah it's okay those those in the audience that are dorks would like that the geeks would like

that you know what because i i love that there's this account of a battle between javascript and python but the thing is i would tell the people that love python which both of them kind of target the same audience like it's easy to start like i would say that the best thing about javascript is that that is the network effect so whenever python is ready to just run in the browser maybe we can talk but still like the only thing that runs everywhere and everything has a browser i'm a browser maximalist that's your browser maximum i'm a browser maximalist yeah go on so uh that's why i like nostre so much so the thing is um i think that even when things are really really good or maybe the the language is really good i i would say that there are two kind of languages

yeah one that are really good and super robust and like hardcore yeah and the other one who who actually uh is being used you know what i mean yes so some of the javascript is javascript most used right exactly i just want to give a shout out to brendan eich do you know him brendan no sorry this is the guy just so you think that i'm not rude while you're talking brendan is the co-founder and ceo of brave browser yeah and he is the creator of javascript oh oh my god yeah i don't know my father he's yeah he's connected with me on twitter and he's a great guy super based i he co-founded mozilla and firefox like solid yeah yes solid great guy follow him he's he's amazing yeah sorry i had to say it is he a bitcoin it's a good question i have

to ask him that i don't know i think he gets it but i did not see him speak about bitcoin he speaks about freedom technologies a lot. Oh, fucking well. So, yeah, we need to check that with him. Maybe I should have him on the podcast. He's a great guy. Sorry, I had to. No, no worries.

Founder of JavaScript, right? My God, yeah. But I think that's the thing I like the most maybe about languages or the network effect. It's something actually I always push on that because I think it's the most important thing about the technology. I always say the same thing about Bitcoin.

when people say i don't like bitcoin being called a technological revolution okay because it's like what do you mean a technological revolution everything that you do has to this is technology like yeah it's true but what do you mean technology like when when you say technology it looks like it's something super for nerds and maybe it is for developing but it's money so that should be used like you don't call internet uh something that's just for technical people money is a technology money is a technology but everything is you know it's the way we actually progress as humans right that's true so when you say that it looks like there's there there will never be a single revolution that is not going to be technology right whatever you do

even though it's a president for example personal are being just chosen by social media for social media is technology then so everything that happens any kind of political revolution whatever Whatever happens, technology is involved. Everything is using internet. So from now, from there on, everything is... Yeah, I get what you mean. For framing, I think you're right. It's a monetary revolution.

It's even a consciousness revolution. That's what I go for. So that's why... Why? Because I think it's a movement. I think it's like the most important thing. It's the people that are conscious about that. So I think that you have two kinds of people.

You have the Bitcoiners. I don't even use the Bitcoin maxi term. It's just like, either you're a Bitcoiner or not. Okay. Right? You're a Bitcoiner and there are BTC investors, right? You're people that actually see BTC as an investment. And I specifically say BTC because they just like, love that token, right?

Like, okay, numbers go up. Sootcoiners love it. But they don't, they will not, maybe they will never be Bitcoiners. I think Bitcoiners, there maybe are like one out of 200,000 people or so. You know, you can tell Bitcoiners right away. I get to meet a lot of people here and I need just four or five words to get if he's a Bitcoiner or not. You know what I mean? You know, well, you can see that that person is in color and the rest are just black and white.

So what do you call a Bitcoiner that really gets it? Someone that what? I think that first he feels that there's something wrong in the world. He is like that. He's being called like crazy from maybe he was born or something from school or whatever. Maybe I'm not sure. Not necessarily. I was a good girl.

You were a good girl? Oh, yeah. Okay. So it was something different in the way I saw the world. But it doesn't mean that I was never a rebellious. You never? No, I was not rebellious. Were you good at school?

Very good. Okay. I was top of my class and very popular and all that. And I was always walking in the lane. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Straight line always.

Yeah. So I don't think it's an attribution, but it's okay. Okay. I'm going to take that out then. I consider yourself a super heavy Bitcoin. I do agree with you that when you become a Bitcoiner, you must challenge the existing rules of the game, the status quo of the matrix when you become one. Not necessarily that you have always been like that, but there is a moment in time where you understand that those rules, they don't matter anymore. or they they're not in your favor or they are there to keep you playing the game in a certain

way so you don't necessarily have to be a rebellious all your life okay you can wake up to it okay yeah you can get it at a later stage we welcome those who who get it at a later so even turn into a big corner that's the thing absolutely but you can tell that it doesn't have has anything to do with the amount of bitcoin to you that you have nothing has nothing to do it has nothing to do yeah i would say that first you need to maybe hate the state somehow i think this uh uh like there's a point that you actually or or at least see the state as a as an enemy as super huge it has a lot of power like something like like every time you you you think that are we gonna give power to that thing is super it has a lot already so i think for my point of view i always say that

i know you said you you don't think like that but sometimes i think that you have to be libertarian like or some it's kind of an ideology thing sometimes i see people that like i was saying that for the technological side some of them they're very good developers they understand at the whole thing but i think they don't have the the the right ideology some the values yeah the values you need to just value freedom somehow you need to just uh be in the human front you know to just fight for for individual sovereignty i think that's a must you're the voice is brought to you by trezor the original bitcoin hardware wallet company pioneering the development of self-custody for crypto assets since 2013 empowering individuals with an open source device

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It's about freedom, privacy, and purpose. You can book a free strategy call, see how it works, and mine some of your first Bitcoin for free with a special offer from my audience. Learn more on AbundantMinds.com slash Efrat. And I think that that's one of the hardest things for people in general, because if you're a freedom maximalist, then you ought to accept and respect freedom even when you don't like it even when other people do things you think are wrong or you have other people around you that are not like you but you appreciate and acknowledge and understand that free will means free will

for everyone everywhere and you have to respect that as part of the of the philosophy and and then you just allow things to happen you allow things to be without resisting them while you build the way you want or create reality in the way you want it to be you know what i mean yeah and that's the hardest thing for people because they they want bitcoin or they want other you know freedom tools or whatever but they find it very hard to accept that other people are not that's like the i always say that everybody has like a tiny fascist inside of him and when when things don't go like they want it to be they just like okay yeah the easy solution would be or what what if i went into power and i would say that uh yeah you need to things let go

and as i was saying about the i think i forged really hard against the government when i actually wanted to start uh an exchange i started on bitcoin exchange 2013 okay so when i started i said okay what i want to do is just get bitcoin right like i want to just touch it just feel it i want one always you always want one right well not anymore right this is a little bit late for people to just want that but what happened is um is that late well it's not like what i mean but not for maybe yeah it's not like you're right but uh it was something that was like okay yeah i think we need to measure bitcoin by sats nowadays but uh the thing is i couldn't get in there wasn't a way here in Argentina to buy it so what I did is okay I want to make an exchange

right I want to make easy for people to just get in so I just created a created a bank account I started a bank account I dressed myself into suit of course and I said okay I'm gonna do whatever you ask me to do so you want to KYC for the customers yeah go ahead yeah I gotta do everything all the homework that you require me to do they shut down my bank account once twice thrice five times so i said oh fuck it i i can't i can't i'm not gonna i didn't have contacts enough i didn't want to just to to go for that route to start uh like owing favors to everybody or just become captured that's what i felt it's like okay the only way to do this is to get captured is to get into the system and since then i was kind of hating the kyc all that and say okay

I think if you allow everybody to use Bitcoin in a KWC manner, you kind of lost, that you got captured, you lost the game. I think that we need to have a very large, I don't believe that we're going to just take over because most of the people, again, they are not Bitcoiners and they never will probably. so i think that we need to keep uh a very large amount of people enough to be relevant to not be tagged as just outliers that they they they are just like money landers or whatever just like you can ignore that and just keep all the bitcoin you know in a centralized way or inside the banks or inside the system or have to whitelist or whatever uh and that i think that would we get capture because there are there are a lot of things right now that really they're really compelling to get like there are a lot of things like bitcoin back loans for example that i

think it's kind of a trap because it's yeah it's it's it's the way you you should you you you feel okay you can use your bitcoin uh right now there will be many traps in the road uh down the road where we're going i think there are many traps and there are already and there will be more There will be more. And you're saying that if you are in any shape or form complying to any KYC related policy, then you are captured. It's like, period. Well, yeah. You're very determined about that.

I'm very determined because I think values are the, that's why I call Bitcoin as a movement because the values is the only thing you've got. Okay, so let me ask you, if you want to leave the gate open for people to come in and play the game that you're playing and learn about this and take gradual steps to get to where you are or other people are, and people are, and you understand that people are in different levels of technological understanding you know just even intellectual ability ages technology acceptance etc then you understand that you have to do different things in order to lure them in and and enable them to play the game and most of them will be very as we said in the

beginning very fearful or concerned or afraid in the beginning to play this game the way you play it today yeah right which is all in yeah so if there is a process and there is a way to bring them in through the gate then places like uh exchanges or brokers like bull bitcoin for example which is bitcoin only relay right in europe like bitcoin only kyc but allowing people to come in learn about bitcoin then putting their bitcoin self-custody as the only way that they can they can not hold it with the custodian it has to be in their self-custody like they take them through a process yeah is that also no no no no no i totally wrong or bad in your no no absolutely not that's i i argue against people that they want uh when they want to

onboard people they they want them to be super heavy just hardcore they don't know i i believe that uh exchanges are bridges so what i mean by this is like just make sure that that it's just uh it's just a way to get in it's not the final destination you need to make sure that this is a Yeah, it's the gate. And this is not the final shape of Bitcoin. Just to make sure that you understand this. Of course, we onboard people and I actually sometimes recommend custodial wallets. I want them to onboard them to experience that and then progressively understand. because i i actually i i started with an exchange as well so i think it would be hypocrite to to just say i know you shouldn't because no exactly of course i i believe that they need to to go through the process go through all the process and i want i want them to to just experience that as i did before that with andres antonopoulos i remember that all all of his talks he always said

uh that when he finished he said you're gonna get some bitcoin yeah i think it's really important for people to actually just yeah seal the deep the loop you know you need to like yeah you're talking me about this but is that why what is it just like get it yeah use it uh and used to give people some yeah yeah he gave away he gave away some bitcoin so for example to just bring new people in i always start with lightning some people said no no you should start with the blockchain or whatever yeah yeah maybe but the thing is like when whenever i need to show the experience i have to apologize and say hey you know like the fees i have to just and it's like and it's inconvenient for people to see it especially in 2025 when everybody's able to

just send money right away easily fast and you just bring me oh so you think that because gonna take over with this shit that you what do you mean i had to wait for 10 minutes so that's the thing i i sometimes i just bring people in with lightning experience and experience that i'm from maybe from media depends on the people i would say for example merchants i want to hyper bitcoinize that's why we're working for i want as many merchants as possible to to just create the narrative that we're able to have media of exchange because you have a lot of places that are able to accept Bitcoin. I wouldn't onboard a merchant the same way I would onboard my dad, for example, or my friends or whoever wants to just keep his money. If I want to onboard a

merchant, I'm going to just ask him what he wants. And what he wants is new customers, maybe. And I introduce Bitcoin just as a payment method. That's it. The conversation, just the only thing i want him to do is accept and maybe even convert into fiat that's it when he's ready he'll say hey maybe i should keep this thing and maybe it would take just months you can't convert someone in a in a if you're able to convert someone a bitcoin would never be converted in one talk if if he's able to be convinced in just one single uh sit down of 15 minutes he's not a big corner he's he has to be some someone skeptical so i think that to become a bit corner maybe uh you need a lot of time you need a lot of of of your own research you need to

just dig down and question a lot of things so in my case i would say i want to maybe well this is to sound bad but i'm going to save as many people as possible i love my country i think we we have a history of being so fucked up by governments and banks yeah that is like sometimes so i i want them to just jump to the train as soon as possible okay and that leads me really well because i want to talk about your country okay and i want you to focus for a second for me on what la cripta is doing here in argentina and why and what do you think argentina is uh is going to experience in the next few years but let's start with what la crypta is doing here in argentina well i think that the same way we uh learn internet that we learned through experience i believe that we need

to find the same way the same path with bitcoin so what we do here in la crypta is to find and create and organize events we actually organized a very nice party halloween last friday and i want people to actually know and feel that bitcoin is it's more familiar it's easy to use i want them to actually i onboard them to to to wallets for them to see that you have you don't have the the all the trouble of just creating account and just taking a picture do all that share with here we see it's anonymous but like money should be an app we're 2025 money should be an app that money should be as easy as whatsapp or whatever any other app so what what we do here is well for two years and a half every time we do an event it's bitcoin only so even in halloween

that all the girls come dressed up and say yeah i want to just get a drink bitcoin only what do you mean bitcoin only to pay for the drink or pay for the drinks and for the for the food okay yeah but do you have that no no so you want to join the party there's no way you get out of here without using uh bitcoin i'm sorry you want like i put the incentive you want to drink or whatever and it's not that i just throw that away for alone of course everybody's willing to help of course you know you open wallets and off we go exactly okay so it's a place for education it's a place for education events and we actually are developers we have more than 80 repositories open source we We developed Lightning, Noser, a lot of things like POSs, for example.

We created a lot. AT developers? No, AT repositories, AT open source repositories. No, the developers come and go. It's really difficult to develop in Bitcoin. We actually compete a lot because we have a very strong crypto community here. Actually, DevConnect is coming, and they are four times the size of LaBitcoin, for example. so you got a lot of a lot of grants so you have to compete with all that so so to get people to

actually uh contribute in open source development it's really hard it's really hard because they have to sacrifice themselves to get like very big fat salaries from the from the crypto yeah crypto industry is super huge here yes especially stable coins and noster there is development Noser, we are the biggest Noser community here in Argentina. Everybody that wants to just come to see Noser, yeah, they come here. The problem with Noser is that we started from the technological part. I actually fell in love with Noser because I said, oh, this is like, it's like Bitcoin without blockchain. It's like, OK, this is like a lost sibling.

You know, they are like supernatural and it's very friends of JavaScript. it's like kind of browser oriented you're able to prototype super fast uh it reminds me a lot from the you know what what three what three people well they are what they do the best is that they create a lot of uh we learn a lot from them actually and and try to just copy things that actually the best practice yeah exactly uh so badges for example with the po they have a lot of things and we want to just we copy that that know they are they work gamification gamification the marketing what three is astonishing because it's the best they do very good marketing and we lack that in bitcoin sometimes especially because maybe bitcoiners are a little bit older sometimes

or maybe when something is that's something i too ideological too ideological well fair enough uh but no no i i'm joking it's um i would keep the ideological for the bitcoiners for the rest of mainstream when i when we target this kind of events or or the thing no i'm lying i always just bring the ideological thing always always with a flag we have a literature flag different but noster is different than bitcoin i get it noster is different uh but the problem with noster nowadays is that first i think the language is a problem every time we try to just bring new people like not everybody in argentina like maybe five percent of the people speaks english oh okay that's a challenge that's the biggest challenge so maybe we can do a bubble we were we were

speaking with a primal they can put a tag maybe for hashtag for us and maybe they get just try creating a bubble or something one of the use cases we were looking for we have a very strong community in this in discord actually we live there and we have uh like 3k people there are very active users uh it's our core and uh actually i talked with derek there was and they were planning to do something related like discord over no sir have you used discord before no but i know what it is it's um it's really good actually it's like a kind of a mix between like forums or like uh multiple channels at the same time have multiple conversations dude i'm that old that i used to be uh in the in this space when mirc and irc were existing you know what they

are yeah all ones uh so yeah it can say it has that kind of vibe sometimes they did start conversations and threads so that they are lost in the middle it like it looks like a maze yeah and that's really good because it's more horizontal it's not that the other social networks of the maybe they are just really straight vertical and the thing is um if there would be an alternative in noser uh with like discord like we definitely could just put all the community there we we we like that okay let's talk argentina argentina um what so let's start with the last few years with mile like the change that the country went through since he got into power do you think that there is a positive trajectory that the country has taken and what

do you think about Milan in general well we have a I don't know if you saw the figure but we are fans of me here okay um I didn't see of course no and I think it's just like um you have a cutout a what a cutout like no no no no it's just it's it's done by it's handmade it's a statue like this with that with a chainsaw actually uh yeah it's really good when melee actually spawned like i think to to melee to to have a melee spawn in your country you you need to have at least three digits of inflation and just suddenly you're okay this guy like how other other way can you just vote a guy with a chainsaw as a president so kovid actually uh pushed a lot for this like covid or the people were fucking crazy well like the kookas we call them kookas like our local

fascists of the party uh has been around for 50 years and they and then when they lost elections the the the alternative was some soft like socialists but with manners you know and we were kind of shifting between this and then they just like fuck them over just like coming here libertarian like this at first people were mocking him because he was they were said oh look at this crazy guy like this is shouting and that the ratings went up and they were like mocking him but then people were just watching that and said like hey but but this guy is right he's actually like and people were taking him seriously they they back him off and then suddenly like in a couple of years he he he rose up and a lot of people started just following we follow him a lot

that the the changes he done they are really difficult to do here because since that since the day one uh there was a kind of a coup they wanted to take him out even with the democratic elections like 56 percent he actually 66 percent of the population were wanted to have this kind of change and still you got a portion of society minority that wanted to throw off the government and return it was like the the best thing i have that the melee has is the the opposition the opposition are so so woke and so like radical that melee has his uh that's his strength because people want them out it's not that it's not that the country turned into libertarian that's not true no but our enemies uh want us to just we have been a lot of venezuelans here

a lot so that's the thing that uh melee actually um that his changes here in politics he he reduced the inflation we were about to have hyperinflation he actually reduced that into like reasonable not first world country of inflations of course maybe 30 percent year poverty came from 52 percent to 35 percent he's uh increasing the fact uh now is fighting for uh labor uh flexibility here when you have to employ someone uh it's like abduct adopting someone it's impossible to to produce. Argentina has like 50% of the economy is black market. One of the cool things that Argentina has that that's what I believe that has a very, very good position to become a Bitcoiner. One thing that that is really cool about Argentina that I like the most is that

when lots just go far, like for example, you got a shitty currency and they didn't allow us to just exchange it to a serious currency uh you're able to everybody is able to exchange this in the in the public yeah it's really it's we have all the infrastructure market exactly black market is something that is not even when we started we call it blue rate because people call it black they call it negative they call it blue and they start it let's call it blue that's it And it's called the blue rate. And the people, people are, it's like, it's tolerable. The government allows.

Yeah, there is tolerance to it. Exactly. Yeah. And the fact that we use a lot of cash here, people are able to exchange that easily. Everybody's used to store other currency that is not, that's the best. we are used argentinians are used to use an alternative currency that is not the official one okay and i heard also that you don't normally hold your cash in the bank no where do you hold it no no no no no in special safe boxes or no no no yeah you should at home maybe at home yeah at

home i'm a different yeah for the most of the people they are not new like not me in general general uh general maybe people yeah they hold so there is like in the banks they have safe boxes that you can yeah hold your the safe boxes you can hold your cash there yeah somehow that people trust that somehow that they're untouchable even with everything just destroyed they still there Nobody touched that. Okay. So that's kind of an agreement. Yeah, it works.

It works. And some people, you should actually put their hardware well there. If Bitcoiners, I know Bitcoiners hold their hardware well there. In a safe environment. Yeah. It's like everything can go to hell, but that you shouldn't touch. Okay. And then also I heard that you can do like deals with people, like sell a house with cash.

That's the beauty of it. For example. Exactly. When you want to buy an apartment, you go with the cash. That's normal. it's not that like what do you mean if someone comes and say i want to make a bank a bank transfer it's like what are you doing no no show me the cash it has to be like big chunks of this it's always dollars nobody buys okay or the yeah in dollars yeah yeah no no you never buy a property

like valuable things are here are changing the US dollars never pesos and then if that is the case and there is such a tolerance for black market and also the use of US dollars and is normalized in such a way, then what is the acceptance or adoption of USDT, of digital dollars here? That's one of the reasons. Maybe it's, I assume that it's Tether.

Yeah, yeah. If it's other Tether points. No, sometimes it's USDC. USDC, okay. But mostly USDT. USDT, yeah, mostly USDT. Some of them, USDC depends, maybe they have grants or something.

that crypto bros have, some of them, they started using DAI, you know, DAI, well, algorithmic stablecoin. But now, I mean, on the most part, I mean, people that are not into Bitcoin or any other crypto, like just the general public, are they aware of digital dollars? Are they aware of USDT? They are aware of USDT. Are they using it? Not everybody.

but a very big big part of it like from maybe 40 20 20 million of people that are active bank accounts or whatever they are like 5 million or 6 million people that they use fintech for example i use them as well they are really they're really helpful because you can hold even for bitcoiners you hold bitcoin and when you have a debit card you can spend your bitcoin with a debit card visa and exchange that automatically it's free for everybody it's for mainstream and a lot of people millions of people use it okay so that is so the answer is yeah they're using it they're using usdt yeah they're using usdt yeah of course and they they uh well sometimes when i think about the whole whole citizenship i wouldn't say that everybody knows about usdt all right but

definitely definitely a big big part of them they use it the financieras that they are the places where you exchange uh currencies in the black market uh usct is the default tired of feeling like your freedom and future are fading away do you live in a country with growing inflation crazy housing prices weird culture and a chaotic economy you're not alone and my friend mikhail thorpe and his team at expat money can help mikhail is the world's leading expat consultant on a mission to free you from broken systems. He's been an expat for 25 years, lived in nine different countries

and has helped hundreds of people with second residencies and passports, offshore banking, international investing and many other essential tools. If you're serious about protecting your wealth and your family, it's not enough to hope things will get better. You need a plan B in another country.

The team at Expat Money can help you build it legally, safely and without wasting years of research. Visit expatmoney.com and leave your details for a follow-up. The conference explores the psychology behind global mass processes, offering a behind-the-scenes look at science, economics, and human potential. It addresses challenging global agendas, mass formation, transhumanism, consciousness, societal change, and the path to transformation. Click the link in the show notes to access three and a half hours of exclusive presentations, in-depth content, and my fireside chat with Professor Desmet. Use my code AFRAT for 10% off. I hope you find great value in it.

Okay, good. So they will learn about it from one of those exchanges, from one of those places or from their friends? Like how would people hear about it? Well, the thing is like naturally whenever they find, whenever there's something that actually blocks them to actually get US dollars or whatever. They find another.

Yeah, yeah. I think that the adoption comes like, I would say that for the country to adopt Bitcoin, sometimes it's better to have like stupid rules. When rules comes on top of the people, they just thought, OK, what's the way out? And they just tried. Yeah. Millet is just opening a lot of the market. So we don't have that kind of tendency for people. But definitely the crypto, we call it dollar crypto, which is the crypto dollar rate. And that's in the newspaper. So, yeah, it's kind of mainstream.

So how does it work when you are so ideologist and you have strong values and you're such a Bitcoin maxi and you hate the state, But you love Millet and you like him in politics and what he's doing, while some of his promises before he came were not fulfilled, like closing the central bank, for example. Remember, remember, I know what you mean, but remember that we have a lot of deficit first. We not only have a lot of debt, we have a lot of deficit and we have a political institutional disorder. So the first time he actually, as I told you, was super messy. The thing is, I like him because he, first of all, he has a Congress as well. So he's not a dictator. He doesn't have the majority that Bukele has, for example.

It's not that he's super power. He can do whatever he likes. And he can be thrown away if you get. And they were, we got really strong enemies here from 50 years. I know that some people from maybe from the outside, some people say like, oh, no, but he should just shut down the bank. No, no, he can't do that right away. He can't. He needs to fix a lot of things, especially the biggest enemies are inside.

So they try to throw him. We have, for example, the old people. How do you say the pensions, for example? And the people you need, you need to continue the government. You need people to vote you. I know there are a lot of people that are maybe uncap, you know, anarcho-capitalist, and they say, like, they throw rocks and say, hey, no, he should do that.

But if you just take the vouch of if you don't continue to enforce him being there, the other people are going to label him. Exactly. And you're going to get a dictatorship, definitely. If it's not Millet, it's the dictatorship. They're going to go straight to Venezuela. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, maybe I would say that we need Millet to be at least this mandate and another one maybe to just to make sure that the population is able to stand for against the other people. And to change all the – now he started to – he needs the Congress, and now he has a lot of of he actually won elections uh last week actually and uh what kind of uh success like it was like it was 40 versus 20 and there are a lot of different ones yeah small ones but 40 to 20 it was the it was the biggest like victory that was and nobody wanted nobody was expecting that you thought that he will go yeah yeah everybody was what thing

it was not not uh first he would lose not 40 20 like everybody everybody was expecting the other way around wow and everybody was some sort of price and some some people some people think that all the libertarians think all the um it's just fair rich people whatever but millay what he did is what it's just it's horizontal the slums vote millay some of the opposition tried to find people just like, are you like, what do you think about the economics? You can't fix economic problems right away in two years. They've been destroying the country for 50 years.

You can't just fix it with magic. And you need to enforce a lot of responsibility. You need to fix the market. The market needs to be fixed. We were very used to just increase prices because of the inflation. and people just automatically put markup prices. One thing that I saw from the restaurant

that I feel like, oh, this is the sign that something is going really well. When you go to a restaurant and you see the menu and the menu is kind of old or shitty or just broken, that means that it hasn't been changed.

It's a good sign. It's a good sign. Hasn't been changed in a long time. Or maybe a long time, a year or so. and that's crazy we we we were used to just be changed every week every week every week they would print out a new menu exactly like that and because the pricing would change every week like the the rates will change wow you had to sit down to negotiate with your employees every every month over two months all the time until i switched um maybe you could just pay in dollars but but

The thing is, like, even employers actually take that advantage because you can negotiate and say, okay, you can lower the, but the thing, it's a mess. Nobody can just, like, you can't stand a lot with that. The poverty is such. It's not sustainable. No. And to fix that, people always were looking for the government

and say, what now? Another thing, another solution that breaks everything in and it's going to become a point that the populations, you're not going to be able to get out of the hole. like the people who produce we didn't leave if milay didn't win i would leave i love my country where would you have gone to if i was i was looking maybe i i i want to speak my own language yeah so i would pick spain maybe yeah but europe is is fucked i said yeah yeah it's it's not it's not as good from here it looks nice but uh i've been there and people were so scared of the

government until the point that they they just gave up yeah europe is difficult got it but that turned things around and because he won many people did not leave many people stayed and you you feel like did that strengthen something here well i think uh the fact that melee his his Narrative was always against all the bunch of people. He changed the way that, first, he was a random guy. Some people compare him to Trump and say, oh, maybe he has some manners the same like Trump, but Trump is a billionaire.

This guy came out of nowhere. So it gave a lot of people hope to the fact that, okay, so things can be changed from the ground. so that that's the like the grassroots thing so he actually battled against all the all the establishment they have all the money all the things all this infrastructure the only thing his campaign his campaign was i'm gonna be in the mall uh at six o'clock whoever wants to come can take a picture with me bah exploded with a with a freeze that's it that's it that's And that's everything you need.

And to be able to do that from the ground was something super inspiration, especially in Argentina. We have, you know, Maradona. I fucking hate him. But because I think he he just threw out his life. But he's his story is kind of the same in Argentina. We we love the fact that people get like the underdog. Yeah. The underdog and the fact that people are able to rise up. Yeah. And that that thing. And actually, that sometimes is a problem because the politicians actually take that and say, oh, but what about the poor?

And they actually blame the rich and just hack the. But but Millet actually changed that and said you were being the change is more cultural than than economical. call okay because it's the shift that the people are able to to pay for all the damage that the other people done and are able to stand for and still fight for the country you make me bullish about argentina you should come to like argentina you're gonna be spending really a short just a week here yeah but uh it's a beautiful beautiful country yeah yeah i'd love to come back it's the seventh uh biggest country in the world so it's really big that you have a huge yeah yeah it's huge it's huge yeah i have some uh i have a friend that moved here uh recently it's interesting when you come from western countries with your fiat you can live really

good life here although it's not cheap now because of the changes yeah but still you can i mean it's it's a gorgeous place to be yeah like yeah that thing changed with melee like it used to be super super cheap not salvo salvo is the cheapest one so you're gonna like but uh yeah that thing is uh but sometimes that's a good thing uh for the people because if nobody people were supposed to they were having the salary with 300 dollars or something like that that wasn't the That was the average salary. And now what is the average salary? I think it's like between six or eight.

And it's rising. And the economy is kind of stabilizing. The thing is you need time. You need time for investors to just know that there's not going to be a risk of a new government to just destroy private property. so it's not that everything is going to change right away you need to know that it's going to be that's why we are so bullish because the fact that the people actually vote for him and are with them so okay this we're going this way and that's good for investors actually meta no meta open ai uh he's putting like 25 billion dollars uh into i know it's not a big number for

first world countries i'm sorry no i don't care about that i just don't think open ai is anything no good in the world but it's not good okay yeah centralized closed loop private company doing ai that surveils after you i used open ai right yeah okay i use chachapiti but uh i'm looking at other private ai solutions i need to educate myself more about it but i know that what i'm doing can be used against me and will be used against me if they need to go against me so do you think we started this conversation with don't trust right yeah don't trust i don't trust the big tech bros i don't and i think that's what we need to decentralize power wherever possible it's the same with tech i agree yeah i agree with ai i think it's gonna be yeah i'm not saying it's bad that

there are investments coming into the no no no this is great but specifically i was talking about opening up no no i think that uh open yeah no of course this is just the first time i mean the first time yeah um yes uh yeah i'm a little bit pessimist with uh all the ai thing that's gonna I think they are cloning our consciousness somehow, and we're teaching them to do that. Yeah. Yeah, you got to be careful. You got to know what you're doing, just like with any other tech,

leading us really to the beginning of our conversation that everything is tech now. And you really need to be educated and know what you're doing because life is technological in the era that we live in, right? So I think the only sane, smart way to live this life in this era is to educate yourself about technology, whether it's money, whether it's AI, whether it's robotics, whether any type of technology that you're going to use in your life, you have to be educated about it. I'm not saying you have to become a programmer, right? But at least learn about it and how it works and what types of technologies are out there and how can you best utilize them to become more responsible, more sovereign, more independent.

Yeah, and I will put something on top of that. We need to be responsible for the things we actually use. And sometimes we need to be responsible on our family and our own tribe. That's why I always push for the big corner of the family. I would say that. Because I think that we need to come back to this notion of having like tribes or something. Right. And be able to.

Yeah, I can tell that, of course, you are the most big corner of your family, right? And the people you actually know. Every time if you ask any big corner, you're going to know that he's the expert one. Right. and people actually rely on them to to be the ones who to push for the technology who know who who are tech savvy enough who have the convictions to actually recommend the things yeah unfortunately they are aware so people know that they can trust you and this kind of thing is like when we say don't trust verify and like i think i think that yeah for it applies to the outside i think we

we need to go back to provide this kind of technologies i actually for notes for example people need to run their own note and be able to provide for the family as well that's this i would say because some people they say no yeah everybody has to be self-serving i get that but i onboarded people a lot of people that they trust me so much that sometimes they just put me all the 12 words on top of me you know and they trust me on that i don't mean i don't say that that's the correct way but there's they you're trusting you you need you need to trust someone that there's there's no way you actually know everything actually when you download a wallet or whatever have you read the code yes open source but do you have you read the code

have you read all the dependencies yeah so you're trusting do you do don't you trust the the people who actually build your home yeah to not fall on your head yeah you trust me for me but i give you a glass of water right a glass of water what about this like you go to a restaurant everybody you can make poison right and the thing is that i to be i know the like the spirit i i when i say to when i push for this kind of things it's like just be aware that you know it's like an utopian And you need to push to that towards towards that. But of course, there's no way to do it perfectly. And I wouldn't go against people. Yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah, people, especially Bitcoin maxis need to remember that trust exists in the world for a reason. We are human creatures and we do we live in communities, we live with other people. So the notion of trust is inherent in us. It's not something that can be taken away.

So I think you're right that it has to be used in the right context of don't trust, verify. Augustin, just so we wrap up, what gives you the most motivation and hope to continue doing what you're doing? What drives you? What drives me? I like a lot of the plebs. I want to, Bitcoin is my ET guy first. It's my ET guy. so i'm gonna i'm gonna it's part of my purpose so the way i feel i can help the most not only

developing but i would say that i want to make it i think to protect it is to make it massively massively adopted so i like the the grassroot i want i want uh to enable people to yeah if i wanted to just get more beacon or whatever uh i would go to i don't know just teach people how to use like self-custody whatever look for rich people i think that's boring right it's like you want to make rich people richer it's like it's not what i want i want actually to to to to change the rules to to to shift to shift it to shift it to shift it and give the opportunity for people who actually want to to wake up and give them an opportunity for them and i would say that i'm very target of my country i'm sorry but yeah i want i want to help my country first uh well of course

like circle right your family friends yeah kind of that i'm very focused on on the plebs on the people who actually uh want to share want to contribute open source as well that's what i like the most to actually build i what i have a mantra myself my mantra is like um well the translation is uh eat what you cook but i think it's i think it's uh dog fooding the term it's that if you if you actually it's like an english rip what you saw a what rip what you saw okay i didn't know that one yeah but yeah uh like you whatever you cook whatever you create this is what you're gonna get right except well it's this is not it's it's more like um i hate hypocrisy you know lies a lot i'm very sensitive of that so i want people to

actually if you're just pushing for something just make sure you actually do it first if not you're like like the personal a fat personal trainer who's teaching everybody to do things that you never do for yourself like live how you actually preach yeah that kind of i call it walk the talk won't they talk yeah that's the one yeah yeah that's awesome very very good okay thank you so much for this i got really hot around the fire here so i need to go cool down now i love it you love it there was there's a mute sign over there oh yes or no so the light's over so you said you didn't like lies yeah you're right this is the first line a fucking hypocrite well but Having this, we make sure that people know that it's fake, right?

I love this. Don't worry. I hope you like it here. I do. I love everything here. And thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Okay. Hola. Where are we? Well, okay. This is La Crypto. Yeah. This is a Bitcoin community house, like a hacker house, something like that. This is in the heart of Buenos Aires.

And you are? I'm Agustin Casis. Oh, welcome. I'm the founder of La Crypto. it's so nice to meet you thanks for taking us for a tour no worries welcome so let's just follow me so you hacked this house yeah like we started like two years ago two or three maybe yeah three years ago the name is misleading because people think like it's well they by the name they think this is a crypto house and it's not but we we build bridges with crypto people

okay uh we want that to we want to convert them yeah the house is a hundred years old actually so let me let me start from the basement i always try to do this because you can see that it's so old that you're gonna you're gonna find a separation between the people that were living here on the like the the like the people that were working actually and with this the style it's like this it's super creepy actually because if you can see that there were some door some rooms that they didn't they didn't even have like uh windows actually yeah yeah like all of this and the the families whole families were living here actually seriously yeah yeah yeah they were living here we saw some some things here original mansion it's an original mansion and the thing is

like i'm gonna show you outside right now but okay we use it for storage here we're planning to actually mine here it was a really yeah because you can have a place to actually cool down this this and we actually use this for for events sometimes we make parties here actually have a very big party for halloween last friday so everybody just work everybody was coming here we use this for like a like a techno yes techno setup this is a la virgen uh cup actually was from two years ago okay so let me follow me one second so when people just come around they they don't know what's going on here they say what is this house like what's going on and then they oh i love this room i know this it look at this this is like a time machine so they actually

were heating the place here they were using different technologies and they were using coal then petrol exactly there's all covered like uh all like burned oh my god that's where they were heating the whole house from exactly that we're using this super cool yeah and the cool thing is like then as technology move forward they can do all this with this is just this yes we upgraded technology so this is the the outside so you're gonna see that it's just like a like a garden like a magic garden in the middle of the city wow what the flip oh my god you have a cool space exactly so this house this house can cannot be demolished that's the thing ah it's a heritage house so if you see all the all the buildings just grew up yeah and whenever we make we throw

a party well we have big problems because a lot of neighbors just complain of course um but it's really everybody just likes this because it's just in the middle of the city so uh everybody prefers to be here actually green patch in the middle exactly amazing so this actually we're building the the stage there sometimes we actually stream there we stream from different places in the ah so you're gonna have a stage here to do like little events yeah sometimes like actually the the well of course we put some there but the thing is sometimes we um the other day well we use it for djs or sometimes like we actually make the the setup to test it now in la bitconf So what we're going to do is just bring all this that we're doing right now.

I'm going to just move it and migrate all that in La Vecchia right now. Got it. So on Friday. Who are we hanging here? Well, this is the same thing because everything is so messy because of the last Friday. If you get rogue transactions on the blockchain, you bring... Exactly. Well, the crypto bros are going to be hanged there.

So what else? Barbecue. Barbecue, yeah, we use it for just lighting a fire. This is a little bit of the crew, the Bitcoin Center. We've got multiple flags that are hanging. La Crypta, 21. Do you know Iron Spanx here? No, this way.

Do you know Iron Spanx? No. No? It's a German, actually. Ah, it's a community, right? It's the biggest Bitcoin community in the world, actually. Oops. Yeah, it is.

No, no worries because they are they are not that like influence. Yeah, exactly But we were really inspired about them. Like I know it means 21. Yes. Yes And they came here multiple times and we have like the same spirit, of course like libertarian flag there So we share a lot of values with them Let me show you inside. Okay, it's the place that we were coming Just let me show you upstairs just to you can see all this. So the thing is when we make We make events. So what I always say is like I want people to experience Bitcoin first. I Always make a split between well, this is my office. Okay, it's a little bit messy

remember we have a party we were expecting visits this is the And sometimes we actually just move all this. It's just going to be all messy. You're taking a lot of dirty footage here. It's a community place. So the thing is, here we work every day. We come here to work every day. In the middle, just some people come.

This is on Tuesday, people just come together around, have some networking and co-working as well. And they are able to just use a couple of offices we got there. Nice. The thing is that since the beginning, I always say that we didn't learn internet in a conference or workshop or whatever. We learned it through experience. And I believe that the same thing should apply to Bitcoin. So we never lose the opportunity to bring people in and make them experience right away.

And say, okay, okay, it's this. Just like at least from the medium of exchange thing. Yeah. because uh reserve um store of value sometimes it's like yeah to make to make sure to just show that well you need that some time you know and the thing is that we want them to actually explore that and be able to experience and then once they get curious enough they are able to upgrade or something got it mikhail mikhail how are you thanks for bringing me here you're welcome look at that setup this is do you know the reference paper street no paper street it

comes from fight club actually if you remember they were they have a house actually and this is a kind of inspiration because it was like when i first came here the house was the movie in so long i have to watch it again i think it's like i need to watch it once every year i need to watch it uh it's yeah it has to say i think it has the same spirit like anarchist like maybe like the full reset and the house when i first came in it was completely wrecked a bit destroyed and then i said okay i want to make a streaming a streaming room or something uh then i started that but i need some like internet uh power just start just uh fixing all the bathroom all the things and of course then i started making events and all that and

started just inviting a lot of crypto bros at first because I thought that they could be converted. But then I said, OK, no, fuck it. I'm sorry. I'm just going to go for it. It's not. So you're not trying to bring crypto bros anymore? It's not that.

No, we actually have a lot of people that have been converted here. But sometimes it's like it's not it's not that easy. It's not that we have some things in common. but the thing is like we don't we don't have the values in common that's the problem absolutely and it's like you have to spend a lot of time and they they speak like us i thought that maybe it would be easier maybe from the technical stuff maybe because they know how to self-custody or whatever but i think that the most important thing is like uh i think bitcoin is a movement so um it's more important the values and i should spend more time for people that maybe you know when when

talk about bitcoin and you got people that maybe one out of ten just like oh yeah fuck the government and that's the guy i know right yeah that's the one you just you have to put all your energy in that guy not the other way yeah i know that you know i'll tell you a similar story soon but yeah absolutely but um that in la in la bitconf is a very a very nice place to actually have the the you're gonna see you're gonna see the meeting point exactly exactly i just saw this yeah those are the cards there are ball cards i know i have one at home you gave one to me in brazil i think i think i have this one yeah we actually are are doing one with benti uno we build up 40 different ones and we are creating all the network for all the circular economies and here in latin america

Africa the both cars are really our thing yeah who told me about the both card the guy from Cameroon yeah people use it in Cameroon yeah yeah because they're really yeah that the ones where we're using right now they work first lighting address they have to use lighting others to be able to fund it then they they were with not so well connect okay so we are able to connect that with primal or any other well i think that's the standard actually that's really cool yeah okay thank you for the tour no worries closing this video for now thank you thanks for being with us please take a minute to give this episode a like a comment and subscribe or follow and please share

it with your friends so they can also get value and choose to take some positive action in their lives till next time Thank you.