You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Bitcoin, Surveillance, and Why Patience Is a Strategy - American Hodl | Ep. 134

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

American Hodl is a Bitcoin advocate and libertarian thinker whose fascination with decentralized systems goes back to childhood, when he ran SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) at home from the third grade, hoping to find aliens via shared compute. A proudly American voice who arrived at Bitcoin through a Ron Paul libertarian path with no illusions that conventional political routes would ever deliver real change. In this conversation, recorded at Bitcoin Vegas 2026, we explore the surveillance infrastructure assembled around everyday life, the strategic tension inside Bitcoin culture between engaging the state and building outside it, the Samourai Wallet case, the meme coin era, and reclaiming personal agency by speaking truth.→ Please like, comment, share & follow — to help me beat the suppressing algo's. Thank you!– SPONSORS –→ Access liquidity without selling your Bitcoin with Ledn — learn more at https://ledn.io/Efrat    → Get your TREZOR wallet & accessories, with a 5% discount, using my code at checkout (get my discount code from the episode - yep, you’ll have to watch it): https://affil.trezor.io/SHUn→ Have you tried mining bitcoin? Stack sats directly to your wallet while saving on taxes with Abundant Mines: https://AbundantMines.com/Efrat - Claim your free month of hosting via this link– AFFILIATES –→ Join me in these upcoming events & use code EFRAT for discounted tickets: https://www.efrat.blog/p/upcoming-events→ Get 10% off on Augmented NAC to detox Spike protein, with the code YCXKQDK2 via this link: https://store.augmentednac.com/?via=efrat (Note, this is not medical advice, please consult your MD)→ Join me at Europe’s largest bitcoin conference - BTC Prague, June 11-13, 2026. Code EFRAT for 10% off: http://btcprg.me/EFRAT→ Be good to your eyes & health, and get the Daylight tablet - a healthier, more human-friendly computer, zero blue light & flicker. Use code EFRAT for $25 off: https://bit.ly/Efrat_daylight → Get a second citizenship and a plan B to relocate to another country with Expat Money, leave your details for a follow up: https://expatmoney.com/efrat→ Watch “New Totalitarian Order” conference with Prof. Mattias Desmet & Efrat - code EFRAT for 10% off: https://efenigson.gumroad.com/l/desmet_efrat– LINKS –American Hodl on Nostr: https://tinyurl.com/3527e5j2 Efrat’s X: https://twitter.com/efenigsonEfrat’s Channels: https://linktr.ee/efenigsonWatch on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/yourethevoiceSupport Efrat’s work: ⁠https://bit.ly/zap_efrat– CHAPTERS – 00:00 - Coming Up...01:37 - Introduction: American Hodl06:54 - The Surveillance State is Already a Weapon07:45 - Ad Break: Ledn & Trezor11:27 - Smart Cars, Minority Report, and the Closing Net13:42 - Join the State or Hide From It? Bitcoin's Strategic Dilemma17:16 - How to Stay Calm When the World is on Fire20:03 - Crypto vs. Bitcoin: Who's Really Winning in Washington?22:37 - Ad Break: Abundant Mines & New Totalitarian Order25:56 - The Samourai Wallet Case 26:30 - Generation Z: More Awake, More Lost31:53 - Just Do the Thing: Personal Agency and Speaking Truth33:58 - Where to Follow American Hodl

it's being billed to us as a good thing a positive thing right and it's like but it's a prison it will only become a problem if the surveillance state becomes a weapon it already is do you think that the fact that they're going harder on building that digital prison is going to bring more people to bitcoin if it's being used to like let's say sort people for a genocide then it'll become really obvious but it won't become obvious until that point what do you make of the mar-a-lago meme coin conference of your president other administration was so bad that we were gonna be hunted so now it's like we're not being hunted but we have to put up with this like con man meme coin you know America's number one pastime used to be baseball and now it's

conspiracy theories the message has gone out that like you can't with bitcoin i realized long time ago that bitcoin was going to win that's where my calm comes from is just knowing the inevitable outcome but just not knowing how long or the exact path it takes to get there bitcoin allows you to you know have private property in a pseudonymous and or anonymous way and that's a very big deal in order to safeguard yourself against you know somebody who might want to do something to you you should just say it yeah just say it out loud just blurt it out and it will it will lead you to a radically different life. Hello, welcome to You're the Voice from Vegas. Vegas, baby. Vegas 2026. First interview out of

a series of eight or nine. I have the pleasure of being here with American Hato. How are you, you my friend good it's great to be here it's so good to have you finally i've been dreaming about we've been talking about this for yeah yes i've been dreaming about the day so i'm gonna have you on the show perfect and me and some of my best best friends sometimes we when we hang out and we just want to watch podcasts together we normally watch something of yours oh that's cool we just need a huddle rant probably you and casein or just you and yeah that's very nice yeah We love yourself. I love yourself and I love you.

I think you are doing fantastic work. I don't think many people know you. Like the real you. And it's fine. And obviously we're not going to dox. But I do want a little bit of your backstory. Yes, of course. Yeah.

I'll go really far back and just be like, I've always been interested in distributed computer systems from the time I was a small kid. I used to do this thing called SETI, which was the search for extraterrestrial intelligence at home so it was cooling shared compute resources to look for extraterrestrials and I would come home from the third grade or fourth grade and be like did I find aliens like super excited and that like sort of planted the idea in my mind about you know using shared computer resources in a distributed or decentralized

fashion for these like really large goals you know and then I just grew up I was like a crazy libertarian as one is i was like in high school i was writing papers about like seasteading and stuff like that and i was like we have to we have to decentralize governance yeah and getting apps on them because teachers don't like that or like like writing papers about how we should like decriminalize all drugs and then teachers being like you're a fucking idiot this is an app you know whatever and uh and then just fast forward to like the great financial crisis and you know seeing the necessity of bitcoin and being like sort of a ron paul libertarian but black billed about ron paul because there was no way we were going to actually make change yeah how are we

going to win this right so that's the whole sort of arc of like how i come to find bitcoin interesting you know and always in the states you were born here yeah and always been in the states yeah i'm very you know the reason i'm american huddle is because i am very american you're a patriot yeah and i have like no interest you know people are like uh my friend was making fun of me because he was like you have a very provincial view about europe and you're like you don't want to go to europe and i'm like yeah fuck europe you know i mean i just i just love america oh great but in a culture but in a cultural sense like yeah the american people are not the american government you know every people's country are not their government like exactly right before

we started recording we just talked about how much hate we're getting from every direction these days yes and me being israeli and jew i get hate from jews and israelis for being a distant voice and speaking against the government and against all the lies and scam scumbaggery in Israel and obviously the war crimes and everything and then on the other side I'm being called a Zionist and uh and eating babies for breakfast which is because of Israeli and Jews so like you can't win yeah as you said you're trying to like delicately walk into the arena to try to make some sense of things you can't no no no because people are very uh tribal and like I you know the algorithms push dissent and like it's very it's much easier to be on a team than it is to be alone like

during covid you know i i felt very alone and isolated because yeah i think we were made to feel that way if you were like a dissenting voice on covid but then over time you started to realize like oh no a lot of people believe the same things that i believe i think it's the same thing being here at like the bitcoin conference is like that's why we like to come here yeah is to just remind ourselves we're not fucking crazy you know we're not alone there are other people who believe these things and we're not just like the crazy person because in your regular life it'll be like am i going crazy i don't know you know absolutely and we definitely i think don't have any passion to be here with all the politicians in the suits right but we just want to meet our flip friends

it's just the best exactly with you yeah okay i want to ask you some things do you still tell your mom that her money is in the market i did so this is my my mother-in-law actually oh your mother-in-law and um i invest take a little bit of money and invest yes i invested her in the markets because she was left uh penniless at age like 65 post-divorce and uh she had nothing and i was like okay what's going to solve this problem bitcoin is going to fix this problem and so i invested her in bitcoin but in order to like you know she's go easy on her she's a 65 year old boomer so i don't think she wants to know all she knows is that her son-in-law cares about her manages her accounts and things are going well you know that's all she needs to know yes it's

in the market and the market goes up it goes down yeah she doesn't need to know which market it's just in the market i love it i love it okay she doesn't need to know what doesn't hurt her yeah let's talk about surveillance a little bit oh i love talking about that larry fink said people really behave themselves when they know they're being surveilled yes right and it makes a lot of sense uh where are we going why is it so hard for people to learn how bitcoin can help them with where we're going yeah i think the hard thing about the surveillance state is that privacy was a almost like a historical accident like it was the historical default of course like every king throughout history would have wanted to know what the peasants were saying about them at the dinner

table and every time they did get wind of a peasant saying something bad they killed the peasant right so like that's the reason to know so that you can kill the person you don't like or silence them in some way and so the you know the surveillance state is now being billed to us like i don't know if you read the palantir memo but the palantir the new one that came out yeah what the fuck is that ever find yourself needing cash but refusing to sell your bitcoin that's real life for many Bitcoiners. Because most Bitcoin sales aren't financial decisions, they're liquidity decisions. And that's exactly what Ledin solves. Ledin is the global leader in Bitcoin-backed lending. They've issued over $10 billion in loans since 2018 with a perfect

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since 2013 empowering individuals with an open source device enabling beginners and experts to easily and securely hold their coins i find my trezor super easy to use and recommend it to my friends and family enjoy my five percent discount on trezor product by clicking the link in the show notes and using the code flat it's basically being built it's being billed to us as a good thing a positive thing right and it's like but it's a prison and i think everybody can tell but at the same time like you know we have a hard problem of like the way digital technology works now currently it's very difficult to get back privacy because let's say like you're a perfectly sovereign individual you're perfectly private but everybody else is not well there's a map

right and you become the dark spot on the map and people want to you know the powers that be say what's up with this dark spot yeah what are they doing and then it's not very hard to look into you it's pretty trivial right so you know i think in a surveillance sense like there is going to be ever increasing uh surveillance and we need technologies that now enable us to you know regain our privacy and sovereignty and bitcoin is one of the toolkits that like at least at the very least bitcoin allows you to you know have private property in a pseudonymous and or anonymous way and that's a very big deal in order to safeguard yourself against you know somebody who might want to do something to you yeah do you think that their fact that they're going harder on building

that's digital prison is going to bring more people to bitcoin um or the boomers are going going to stay stupid and the and the naysayers are going to go doubling down i think unfortunately is if the system stays if the surveillance system stays sort of opaque and is not overly intrusive i don't think the average person will care until it happens to them right but yeah it will only become a problem if the surveillance state becomes a weapon it already is but like if it's if it becomes obvious to people that it's a weapon and it's being used to like let's say sort people for a genocide then it'll become really obvious but it won't become obvious until that point and that's sort of a problem i think you know people are so bit of a black belt yeah for sure

i saw your noster post about smart cars uh i've also posted about it recently yes yeah isn't it incredible that you know we can be just directed corralled physically geographically to certain locations and not to others based on the type of car we're driving in and you've seen the movie minority report where like if his car goes into lockdown and starts routing him to the police station he kicks out the window and then jumps onto another car on the freeway like that is the future that we're heading towards you know and it's i thought the most interesting thing about that story uh it was a story about how they want to put tracking cameras in your car to analyze your body language and your pupil dilation to tell if you're drunk or not he's already doing that and

they i know a patent i thought that they would wait until the cars were self-driving right but they're using it as a pretext to put it in now because they're like well you might be drunk right and it's like well you know you have no you have no business being in my car right but of course they want to be everywhere they possibly can be you know i think they're kind of losing the losing their cool with how they're rolling out all the technologies they're just we're spiraling kind of out of control because we're getting closer and closer to 2030 they're freaking out they've got pressure from above all the lagards and the wefts and the you know they're like do it do it agenda 2030 so they're kind of you know they're making mistakes i think it comes back

to the dark spot theory though which is like i you know i posted in response to that like i oh look i just became interested in classic cars which don't have you know surveillance technology and uh the problem is i become classic car guy driving a 1967 mustang and they're like why is this guy driving a 1967 mustang they want to know and then it's only a matter of time before the driving of cars itself is made illegal yep right yep because like you know once you have self-driving cars you'll be a deeply selfish person if you want. And they won't even make it outright illegal. They'll just make the insurance prohibitively expensive.

So the insurance will be $10,000 a month if you want to drive your own car. The energy, so the petrol or the way that you are electrifying your car. They'll give subsidies to where they want you to go. All right. Your panel in a few hours today is called More Than Just Plebs, The Evolution of Bitcoin Culture and Community. What are you going to talk about? What are you going to touch on?

I think the gestalt of that panel is basically like, do we want to try and join up with the state apparatus and make change that way? Or do we want to hide from the state and make change that way? And you have to pick one or the other, right? And I think the question is open to each individual to choose what they think is best for them. In aggregate, though, I think it's better to try and make political change if you can, even while knowing you're going to be a hypocrite because Bitcoin has these very high minded ideals. And in order to make peace with the establishment, you have to make peace with the establishment. And the establishment does not have high minded ideals. And so there's a hypocrisy to going towards the state.

and so you're you're more true to yourself i think if you try and hide from the state but then you're likely to be crushed by the state so these are really just not good uh yeah like there's no good answer like a lose-lose for sure yeah so we're facing a lose-lose and we're trying to see what we do about it and obviously like this conference is like we join up with the state exactly yeah yeah so that's and then you talked i was talking to european bitcoiners last night and they're like fuck the state you know so it's there's an american european divide a bit yeah i'm there too but um but what i do believe in as a libertarian like you is full liberty so if you are the person that thinks that you're good with politicians or you

have a way with them you can lobby stuff you could be great do it yeah it's like do your thing i would not tell you that it's wrong but i will do mine and so yes you know it's just organically both are necessary too yeah you know because if bitcoin does you know get subsumed by the state let's say like you need bitcoiners who are out there advancing the technology the privacy the circular economy um the medium of exchange you know use case like you need bitcoiners doing that yeah so it can't be like this internal divide in bitcoin where we're like well your estate is exactly and i hate you and you're we just have to respect we have to we have to kind of realize that there's this two-sided approach yes to tackle this very large problem 100 and that's

like the most mature way to view it yeah and when i was in el salvador i think that's the best example you it gets to the level where the politicians understand what kind of power it has from the grassroots that they're becoming proponents of it they're like we need more circular economies where the fuck do you hear politicians never never it goes again it's like yeah they're shooting their own book right in this in the status there's like 180 different states and they're all gonna like have different um for sure a different vibe on how they deal with this whole thing and they have to learn how to position themselves as well and what's best for them and certain regions will be more open-minded to the full bitcoin libertarian fixture and some

Bitcoiners who are like more nomadic like yourself will want to be like well I want to be over there you know because why would I want to be over here playing by the rules when I don't have to I could play by the new rules over here and that is a very intelligent rational decision I think you know thank you yeah all right in a world that is on a path to self-destruction this is what I think with war scammers retardedness at peak levels what's your strategy to stay sane cool calm and collect it i think um don't you love the question i do love yeah no i think uh for me i just this is not ai this is me it's it's i know i can tell i um i think that i realized long time ago that bitcoin was going to win and it's a story about the people that hang in for a long time in order

going to be part of that success and so you have to kind of be patient you know just extremely patient exceedingly patient and that's where my calm comes from is just knowing knowing the inevitable outcome but just not knowing how long or the exact path it takes to get there and then just you know being amused or surprised by that path and kind of staying in that like curiosity yeah yeah staying in curiosity you know and just being like oh huh i didn't see that it would be that way but it is obviously it is that way you know and if you zoom out even a little bit more and look at not just bitcoin and the way it's progressing but the state of the world in general yeah what keeps you grounded then it's like yeah this is like the fire is going on behind me but

i'm like i'm still cool i think that um more people than ever are waking up to what's going on and what's been going on for a long time unless people are fully bought into the propaganda you know and in fact i would say that like america's number one pastime used to be baseball and now it's conspiracy theories so like americans love to like share conspiracies with each other like oh have you heard like the way we used to share jokes we share conspiracies like oh have you heard this one bill gates he fucking he he put alpha gal protein into the fucking ticks and now we're gonna all be allergic to meat you know about that one that one's real so that's that's sort of what we do now and i think that's a good it's a good sign of like yeah especially in america people

have speech so they're like fuck this bullshit i don't have to go along with this agenda but even when i was in england people they know in their mind they can't say it out loud or verbalize it to the same extent yeah but they can they know that like it's bullshit and i guess the question is how do you organize at scale without being disintermediated and decentralized systems are the way that we do that because how can you attack a swarm of bees you have to just run away from it or swarm of cyber hornets you have to just run away from it because it's gonna get you you know 100%. Yeah.

I love it. I agree. What do you make of the legislation status of crypto versus Bitcoin in the US? Like the fact that they're promoting crypto legislation so much and Bitcoin is like nowhere to be found in that landscape. Do you think it actually matters? I don't think it matters because crypto can't throw out the baby with the bathwater and the baby is Bitcoin.

Because if Bitcoin is bad, their thing is really, really, really bad. And also, I think they they stopped trying to fight us sometime around the when the SBR was announced. And, you know, Ripple was trying to, like, you know, get themselves put in. And basically the entire crypto industry came together to be like, fuck Ripple. We're not we're not going to allow Ripple to be a part of this. And then there was like a segregation between the two. And I think that the message has gone out that, like, you can't fuck with Bitcoin, you know, like from the crypto side. there used to be a fight of like people thinking they could displace bitcoin i don't think they

believe they can displace it anymore i think they believe they can make a lot of money for themselves by selling what is effectively ponzi tokens to the general public and you know from a bitcoiner perspective they have the the lobbies and they have the money and we don't you know to the same degree we have very smart people working on this yes but they're not as well funded that's And money talk in Washington, it's corrupt. So money talks. And, you know, in a sense, like the administration goes to the highest bidder. And I think crypto is the highest bidder at the moment.

But they can't, you know, in my opinion, it's not like a big fight between Bitcoin and crypto right now. It used to be. And it sort of has reached a, I don't know, a cooling off period. What do you make of the Mar-a-Lago meme coin conference of your president? yeah i mean we were talking about this the other day it's like that's peak retardation why are bitcoiners not more mad at trump because trump is doing shit coining that's of like the highest degree and i think like the answer is we're just tired we're just fucking tired we're like out of energy absolutely and it was kind of like making a deal with the devil you know like in the sense

that like um well we'll support you if you the other well the other administration was so bad that we were going to be hunted. So now it's like we're not being hunted, but we have to put up with this like con man meme coin, you know, bullshit. And it's like, OK, I guess it's less bad than being hunted down by the state, you know? So I think that's sort of the general feeling.

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This masterclass is now recorded and available to watch. The conference explores the psychology behind global mass processes, offering a behind-the-scenes look at science, economics, and human potential. It addresses challenging global agendas, mass formation, transhumanism, consciousness, societal change, and the path to transformation. Click the link in the show notes to access three and a half hours of exclusive presentations, in-depth content, and my fireside chat with Professor Desmack. Use my code EFRAAT for 10% off. I hope you find great value in it. yeah and speaking of being hunted by the state what do you make of the samurai case and all the other cases of i think the samurai guys deserve a pardon and i think that's something that we've

been working on like you know i was i don't work on this directly but like i talked to the people that are working on the samurai case and like we do have very smart um very smart very smart attorneys you know who are principled bitcoiners i was with two of them last night and they were talking about this and i'm i'm hopeful but it's a bit of a long shot at the moment unfortunately you know yeah you can catch me on stage with lauren keone's wife yeah and lynn albrecht and janice mcafee yeah we're gonna talk about i i especially think it's the state chasing it's especially fucking bullshit because in america the way our law works if something is not explicitly illegal that it's legal and what bill and keone was were doing was not explicitly illegal in my

opinion it may have been gray market by the law but it wasn't um you know it wasn't it was actually in compliance with the regulator right and so it's to me it's a trad travesty of justice what's happened to them and i think that they deserve to be freed obviously i don't think they were doing anything wrong i think maybe they said some things on twitter yeah but like who hasn't now that was That's part of a marketing campaign. Right, right. It's also like, who cares? They have freedom of speech.

They can say what they want. I don't think they were belying any ill intent in doing so. Lastly, your take on the mental state of the younger generation being born into a digital native. It's getting bad. AI-led world with a palantir constitution. How can we support them? I think when I look at Gen Z and Gen Alpha, I think that they are increasingly deranged in certain respects. But then closer to the truth, like, I don't think I was as aware as the average 19-year-old today.

I think they're much more aware than we were. But then sometimes because they've grown up in this digital feudal system, they kind of think it's all real. Yeah. And they don't, you know, it's like the famous tweet from Tyler, the creator, like, how is cyberbullying real? Just walk away from the screen, like, just shut your eyes. Like, I feel like they grew up in a time when the Internet was a vortex that sucked them in. And we grew up in the time when the Internet was like a white space for exploration. And so I feel I feel it sometimes is difficult for them to tell truth from fiction.

But, you know, it's also hard for the boomers to tell truth from fiction, too. So it's not it's not a uniquely Gen Z problem. It just seems like they have more energy attached to whatever the digital thing is. Like maybe their self-esteem does come more from follower counts than somebody who's a bit older. Although I watch older people fall into that trap, too. So for sure, I think the kids are all right. How do you recommend parents to guide their children in this day and age? I think the kids are all right, but I think it's become harder and harder and harder to find out what is true.

you know and it so that's the the parents job yeah like i tell i tell my my kids i'm like you know they'll be like well how do you find out what is true and i'm like well you just think about it for yourself you know what i mean and nobody no other person can tell you there is no authoritative source i can give you that's like this is the truth because even people who are really genuine truth seekers who are doing their best to be you know what independent journalist or spread uh information they get it wrong too so it's just a very complicated thing to triangulate like what is likely to be true based on and you can never have a real 100 certainty about anything anymore and maybe maybe that was always true and we were just all brainwashed by the television

when we were younger yeah you know and by science yes by everything yeah right the entire apparatus pointed back to this one signal which was the tv and we would all just watch it and be like well it's on the tv it must be true you know you can aim to get as close as you can to be true yes i think you can get close you can get like you can be responsible just like you said if you think for yourself you actually use this thing you can guide your child and say look to me it looks like because da da da give that's a that's a scientific process too right so like you're basically teaching your children how to do science um and saying listen these other people like fuck them like they're you know they don't they probably don't have your best interest at heart you're giving

them the full pictures yeah i even i even i get them to question me quite often because i'm like you know what i yes i am the authority figure in your life i'm the patriarch of the family but i should not be um how do you put a stop to it if they start abusing you no it's okay it's okay like i could you know for me it's like yeah there's no question an eight-year-old can throw at me that I can't handle right so question me all you want I think it's good to just be in the nature of questioning absolutely and being like why why is this the case and the minute you turn that off that curiosity off I think it's kind of fatal to your life you know because now you're under somebody else's sort of uh agency like you you've given up your agency right and that's an

issue yeah and my son used to ask so much why it would drive me crazy when he was little but it kind of tamed down as he was growing and he's such a curious boy yeah and he asks the right questions you know what i do when my kids ask me that they'll they'll be like why and i'll just launch into this like 20 minute lecture and then they're like oh my god i'm never asking this guy again i'm like we have to go back to 1776 sit here my son yeah let's take this deep come daddy's ready exactly i love it that's a great hank all right awesome is there anything that you want people to know out of sin city disgusting vegas 2026 like any message you want to send to the freedom lovers here watching the biggest message is you can just do things

okay like nobody can stop you from having a high level of personal agency you can just do whatever it is that you want to do i was talking to a guy last night he was an old friend of mine who was a he was a cpa and he was like a chartered accountant and he hated it and then he decided he wanted to become a developer and now he works for start nine and he's building sovereign you know systems for them and it's amazing and he's he's having such a enjoyment of his life because of that and that was just because he said you know what yeah why can't i just do it why can't i just do the thing And if you're like the type of person who's watching this kind of interview where we're talking about these kind of things, but you're feeling like you're not doing what you want to be doing in life, I think you need to just do it. And that's like, yeah, that's the whole thing is like there is no rules for life.

There is no guidebook. Absolutely. If you find yourself following an invisible checklist, like it's probably bullshit and you should just dispense with it and live life basically according to like what you think is the right thing to do, what's in your heart. And I think you will have a much more fulfilling life. Also, in addition to this, if you just start speaking the truth instead of self self censoring, it will guide you to a radically different life. a hundred percent you know i can tell you that you'll be around different yeah but it'll be a crucible right oh yeah you'll have to walk a cruise a gauntlet in order to get through some of the when we lie like we lie to ourselves for a long time in life when we lie to others too and we build up all this dead wood that surrounds us and then we can't figure out how to get free from it yep and you kind of have to light a cleansing fire and just burn that shit down

and see it all collapse but you're in the middle of it so it hurts it burns because you've been lying for so long to yourself and to others and if you just you know start on a heading of truth what is the truth to you right what what have you been wanting to say but you haven't out of cowardice or fear or belief that you have to keep things secret to you know appease other people what if what is that thing you should just fucking say it yeah just say it out loud just blurt it out and it will it will lead you to a radically different life yeah the beautiful thing is that that path will show itself to you as you start being more truthful will take you closer to your purpose to your destination like there is no end goal but it's just like getting closer to

why you're here what's your gift that you're now going to be exercising for the rest of your life so that you feel as centered as truthful as honest as possible and that's in my opinion the best way to live. 100%. Even though it's harder. Yep. Otto, I love talking to you. I'd love to have you on again for longer. We'd love to come back. Great. And people should follow you on Noster, right? Yes. Noster. Because we're not on any other centralized platform. I'm not on anything else at the moment. Yeah. Right. So Noster, go there. Holland was doing great work. Anything else? No, I think that's it. Cool. Cool. Thank you very much. Awesome. Love it. Thanks for being with us. Please take a minute to give this episode a like, a comment and subscribe or follow. And please share it with your friends so they can also get value and choose to take some positive action in their lives. Till next time.