You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Britain's War on Freedom, Privacy, Speech and Bitcoin - Freddie New | Ep. 157

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

Freddie New is a lawyer turned Bitcoin executive, CEO and co-founder of B HODL, a Bitcoin treasury and Lightning services company, and co-founder of Bitcoin Policy UK. He grew up in Zimbabwe, a country that has cycled through five currencies in his lifetime, and he took from it a lasting impression of lawyers and judges as the people who stand up hardest against government overreach. In this conversation Freddie unpacks what is behind the UK’s child safety framing of internet age gating, why 12,000 people were jailed over social media posts, how banks create money, why he thinks large scale currency collapse is where the debt story ends, and his view on bitcoin as Digital Credit.→ Please like, comment, share & subscribe, to help me beat the suppressing algo's. Thank you!SPONSORS→ Download the free report on second citizenships & setting up a plan B in another country with Expat Money: https://expatmoney.com/efrat→ Access liquidity without selling your Bitcoin with Ledn, get 0.25% off your first loan: https://ledn.io/Efrat    → Get your TREZOR wallet & accessories, with a 5% discount, using my code at checkout (get my discount code from the episode - yep, you’ll have to watch it): https://affil.trezor.io/SHUn→ Have you tried mining bitcoin? Stack sats directly to your wallet while saving on taxes with Abundant Mines: https://AbundantMines.com/Efrat - Claim your free month of hosting via this linkAFFILIATES→ Enjoy $50 off any Above Phone purchase using the code EFRAT: https://abovephone.com → Get 15% off “Born To Be Free” all-natural, tallow-based skincare products on a bitcoin standard, using code EFRAT: https://oshi.link/1nvZYq  → Join me in these upcoming events & use code EFRAT for discounted tickets: https://www.efrat.blog/p/upcoming-events→ Get 10% off on Augmented NAC to detox Spike protein, with the code YCXKQDK2 via this link: https://store.augmentednac.com/?via=efrat (This is not medical advice, please consult your MD)→ Watch “New Totalitarian Order” conference with Prof. Mattias Desmet & Efrat - code EFRAT for 10% off: https://efenigson.gumroad.com/l/desmet_efratLINKSFreddie on X: https://x.com/freddienew Freddie on Nostr: https://tinyurl.com/4s7my67h B HODL’S website: https://t.co/nRDU4uVSfa Freddie’s Privacy Guide: https://tinyurl.com/muedcpsy Freddie’s recommendation - A Not Too Technical Overview of This Bitcoin Thing: https://armantheparman.com/bitcoin-english/ Efrat’s X: https://twitter.com/efenigsonEfrat’s Channels: https://linktr.ee/efenigsonWatch on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/yourethevoiceSupport Efrat’s work: ⁠https://bit.ly/zap_efratCHAPTERS 00:00 - Coming Up...01:42 - How Freddie & Efrat Met03:41 - Introduction: Freddie New B HODL, Bitcoin Policy UK and a Lawyer's07:05 - Scanning Every Device in the UK and Child Safety Pretext09:22 - Digital ID: Centralised Honeypot of Personal Data11:39 - Ad-Break: Expat Money & Ledn13:54 - Why Freddie Cares: Orwell, Huxley & the Duty to Act15:57 - If the Protocol Needs No Permission, Why Does Policy Matter?19:39 - Why Is Control Tightening in the UK28:00 - How Is Money Created & Why Currencies Collapse31:16 - Why Digital Privacy Matters36:51 - Lightning as a Business: B HODL43:43 - Ad-Break: Trezor & Abundant Mines45:30 - Bitcoin Backed Credit vs Bitcoin as Money51:26 - Where Is The UK Heading, With Bitcoin & In General55:26 - For Brits Still Afraid of Bitcoin58:03 - Banning Bitcoin Means Banning Speech, Thought & Math59:01 - Freddie's Bitcoin Journey01:00:19 - Don't Give Up Hope

You have to reach the rather disturbing conclusion that it's not actually about protecting children at all. Gathering anyone's information in order to educate the internet is essentially creating a gigantic centralized honeypot of personal data. You can almost, with 100% certainly, guarantee that it's going to be leaked online at some point and sold to the worst people in the world. You had 12,000 people sent to jail last year because of social media posts. Like, where are things going? The only ends of this is large-scale currency collapse. What the first thing authoritarians do is often to throttle people's use of money. Financial repression is very, very easy.

It's a very easy way of controlling people. I can't travel to a protest against the government if I can't buy a train ticket. If you're banning Bitcoin, you're banning speech and thought and mathematics. You're banning a child sitting in their room flipping a coin. I think they want to control what people think and feel because they know that if more people were able to communicate how dissatisfied they feel with society, then they would lose power. We're raising a generation of children now who may themselves never have children and have a deep sense of hopelessness about the future, which is awful. Don't give up hope without being fully free. I don't believe you can be fully human.

We need to remember that our enemies may be many, but we're more numerous than they are. I was raised on Aldous Huxley, on George Orwell, on King Arthur, on Stoids Merlin. And I really believe that if you have the ability to do something that is good and valuable and help us. to other people, then you should do that. You shouldn't just sit back and do nothing. Hello and welcome. Good morning from Prague. I'm Afrat here with you again at You're the Voice. We're at BTC Prague and I have the honor and pleasure of sitting here with my friend Freddie New. Hey, Freddy. Hey, Fred. Really nice to see you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Thank you for agreeing to do this. This is long overdue. I've been wanting to do this before, but we never found a time and I keep missing each other.

Right. And I kind of. have insisted that we do this face to face because that's how I love doing it. And we'll talk about you in a second, but people don't know that you were my first, how would I say it, welcome into Bitcoin. No way. Yes, because in a conference, you remember in Amsterdam, 23, I came for my first Bitcoin conference and you and I were on the same panel. And you were so nice and you invited me to go out with the panelists that night. And I was, you know, I come from a corporate world, 20 years or so in corporate life. And yes, people are nice and you find friends and everything, but you never find, like, so

quickly people that treat you like you are, they don't even know you, but you are so important and you're so welcome and we really want you to hang out with us. And you are like that to me. And I just wanted to thank you for that because that was not obvious at all. Oh, that's such a nice story, and I didn't know that. But I'm really glad you came out. We went to that dinner with Dylan LeClair, didn't we, and some of the BDC magazine guys. Correct.

I didn't realize that was your first Bitcoin conference. It was my first Bitcoin conference. It was my first ever Bitcoin thing that I did. Wow. Like an event. And really, I felt welcome. I was like, I came out of that conference thinking, this is a great community of people. Like, just something very humane about people here.

And I think you had a lot to do with that feeling. So thank you. I'm touched. I'm really pleased. But I'm glad you're still here. You know, going from strength to strength. Look, look what you did three years later. Orange stress and everything.

That's right. That's right. So, yeah, so let's move to you and what you do. And for my audience that may not know you, just quickly, you're the CEO and co-founder of B-Hoddle, which is a public company listed in the London Stock Exchange, right? The Acre Stock Exchange. Okay. So it's one of the smaller stock exchange.

in the UK. Okay. As you have more than one in the UK. And it's a treasury company that provides lightning services, lightning layer two of Bitcoin for those who don't know. And you're also the chief policy officer of Bitcoin Policy UK. I have just had to retire from that. So I'm still a member of BP UK, but I'm now full-time B-Hoddle.

You've done so much for that organization and you keep doing, right? I'm sure you won't be really leaving them. I know you. And I think that you're one of those people that have submitted so much of your legal knowledge and your lawyer as well to the government institutions in the UK to try and influence how they see economics, monetary policies and Bitcoin specifically. And so you have a lot of experience, a lot of background that really can help drive the industry in the UK forward. And at the same time, you're a great freedom fighter and you really care about people's privacy and freedom. And so you kind of join those worlds together to bring that to the forefront in the UK.

And I think that's so important, especially in the recent few years with everything that's going down in the UK. So that's actually where I want to start. Maybe like let's zoom out and talk about the UK first. Yeah, definitely. And what's going on in the last few years there? We can touch on all the details as we go. Well, I'm actually maybe just picking up on something you said about the legal profession. We were talking yesterday, weren't we, around, you know, I grew up in Zimbabwe,

and obviously Zimbabwe's had its own political troubles over the years. It was noticeable, and I raised this when we chatted, that the judges and the lawyers in Hararean in Zimbabwe generally tended to be the people who stood up most strongly against overreach by the government. And I think as a lawyer, you have a duty not necessarily. to the government, but to the law. And at the same time, you are in a relatively unique position of being able to understand when and if a law is unjust.

Because obviously, as a citizen, it's your duty as a good citizen to obey the law. But not all laws are just. We know this. Throughout history, unjust laws have been fought, have been overturned, have been repealed. And unfortunately, I think to your question, I think that's kind of where the UK is at the moment.

We are in a very strange position. where a government that is ostensibly left-leaning and should be socially liberal, is actually taking quite aggressive steps against privacy, against your ability to speak freely. And ultimately, for me, that's so dangerous, because if you can't speak freely, then you can't think freely either. And without being fully free, I don't believe you can be fully human. Absolutely.

And, okay, and so I don't even know where you're, to start with that because there's so much wrong that they're doing. So, okay, let's start with everything that's going down on the privacy trajectory. So we see companies like Signal, MOLVET, Vexel, co-signing a statement recently saying that the UK government latest proposal to scan all the content on all devices sold in the UK is preposterous. It's preposterous. It's unheard of. And it will not protect children, obviously. It will endanger everyone, actually, that level of surveillance. So as someone who engages directly with Parliament and with those people that make those policies, how did we get here? What is their justification? That's a really interesting question. It's obviously hard to think yourself into the shoes of the people who are making these decisions. And I think it's important to lay out up front that everyone wants to protect children. You'd have to be a monster if you don't agree with that idea. Yeah. And no one wants children to be endangered online or exposed to material online that could be damaging to them. So the irony is that on the specific issue, I think everyone really agrees. The problem, I think, arises in implementation.

So there is, as far as we know, no simple way of restricting children's access to the internet without restricting the access of everyone. And then when you map that point onto the aggressive thirst that the Labour Party seem to have for digital ID and monitoring of all its citizens at all times in all places, then I'm afraid you have to reach the rather disturbing conclusion that it's not actually about protecting children at all. it's effectively a step towards age-gating the entire internet and being able to monitor and control speech, thought and behavior.

And I'm afraid it's hard not to draw that conclusion. So without putting words into people's mother, I think that's really, it lies behind a lot of the aggressive moves that we're seeing. And one of the things you've done is you've issued, you also, I saw some of your tweets on X, so you also spoke out about that. What are some of the actions you're taking already? around this? So there was a consultation around educating the internet and limiting children's access to it and social media. So I responded both as an individual. And then also on behalf of Bitcoin

Policy UK, we put out a very detailed breakdown, pushing back very hard against the government's proposals for digital ID. Explain exactly why, fundamentally why it's bad. And a very simple, A very simple example of why we don't think it's a great idea is that as soon as any person information is gathered by a government body or by a company, you can almost with 100% certainly guarantee that it's going to be leaked online at some point and sold to the worst people in the world. So gathering anyone's information in order to age gate the internet is essentially creating a gigantic centralised honeypot of personal data, which you can guarantee will be sold.

For sure. As happened in France not long ago with... 18 million records that were sold on the black market. Completely right. I don't know if you saw just the week that this consultation came out. Did you see the company's house debacle in? Oh, my God. It's so ridiculous.

I can't keep up. Well, it's just an example of how cack-handed they are. The governments can't do IT. So a company's house is a register of all companies and directors in the UK. There was a glitch on the website. They don't really know how long it was there. If you hit the back button two or three times, you could log in to someone else's company and change all of the details of their directors.

No way. Yeah, their home address, their names. And this is the, I mean, there's something like five million directors in the UK. People really think that the state is a competent entity and a benevolent entity. And we give them so much power and it's so destructive. I mean, one of our main defenses against the state is that they are incompetent, but we shouldn't, we shouldn't rest on our orals. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, I'm kind of segueing a little bit because I want to pull on a thread of something you mentioned before with Zimbabwe and your upbringing there and connected with what

you're doing now. Why do you care so much about people's freedom and, you know, and humanity? Like, why do you do? Because you work so hard. I see the stuff you do. It's amazing. But most people don't do that. Tired of feeling like your freedom and future are fading away? Do you live in a country with growing inflation, crazy housing prices, weird culture, and a chaotic economy? You're not alone. And my friend Mikhail Thorpe and his team at expat money can help. Mikkel is the world's leading expat consultant on a mission to free you from broken systems. He's been an expat for 25 years, lived in nine different countries and has helped hundreds of people with second residences and passports, offshore banking, international investing and many other

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Leiden also publishes proof of reserves reports every six months with full transparency. So if your capital is in Bitcoin, but your expenses are not, you still have options. Lennon lets you unlock liquidity without selling your Bitcoin. Learn more at Leden.io slash Efrat and get a quarter percent off your first loan. That's LEDN.I.O. slash EFrat. That's a really interesting question. I'm not sure I've ever asked myself that. You know, I'm relatively elderly now, and I spend a long time like you in the corporate.

world and I enjoyed that it was it was a good thing to do but it didn't I don't think it felt as important as what I do now and I think getting getting a little bit older you reassess your life and you look at your skill set and you think how can I best deploy that skill set in a way that can be useful in terms of my upbringing you know not not not being goofy about this but I was raised on you know Aldous Huxley on George Orwell on King Arthur on stories of Merlin and And, you know, I really believe that if you have the ability to do something that is good and valuable and helpful to other people, then you should do that. You shouldn't just sit back and do nothing. We were in the Oslo Freedom Forum last week, and a quote that came up again and again on stage was, you know, all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

Yep, very much. And we all think we're a good person, don't we? And so I think if you see there is something that needs to be done and you're able to do it, then. You have to step up, I think. Yes, I'm 100% with you, but thank God the people like you exist, because most people don't. They don't do anything. And yeah, it's just, I think we need more people with courage to step up and do something.

It can be scary, though. You know, I was a non for a long time, and in some ways I preferred when no one knew who I was. It was easier, I'd be. Yes. Right. Yes, exactly. And I fantasize a lot about, you must have seen. short-ranked redemption. Yes, of course. You know, two pieces of that. There's the bit when Andy

walks into the bank right at the end as a person who's never existed until that moment, and then he vanishes and then red right at the end when he sees Andy in Zawaterneo. Hopefully we'll get to find Zawaternayo at some point ourselves. Hopefully. Okay. All right, I'm taking you back. I'm like jumping from one area to another. You build a Bitcoin Treasury company. And you have to work with a policy organization simultaneously. Most Bitcoiners say that the protocol doesn't need permission. So why does policy work actually matter? And what can it actually change?

Well, I would never disagree that the protocol doesn't need permission. But unfortunately, the people who need to use it live in states, which can affect the way those people can interact, not insignificantly with their own money. So using a very simple example for in the UK, the biggest loss we had in the UK in policy terms was the designation by the FCA, our financial regulator of Bitcoin as a restricted mass market investment. Restricted mass market investment. So it's restricted. It's not allowed to freely be... Exactly. And that little definition has a very wide number of negative impacts and not least of which

is that anyone looking to buy Bitcoin from an exchange, you know, like Coin Corner with, I know the team there very well. If you're a new customer, you have to go through a cooling off period of 24 hours when you sign up. You have to promise. What is that for? Oh, it's ridiculous. Why? It's because the FCA says it's restricted, so it can be offered to you, but only in certain circumstances because Bitcoin is so dangerous. You have to do a questionnaire so you know what you're investing in. You have to say either you're a high no worth individual who can accommodate high levels of risk, or you won't put more than 10,000 pounds into the investment in one year. And this has a, and you can't own the business can't advertise properly either.

So it's very, very hard for new businesses. So if I'm just a pleb in the UK, I cannot buy more than 10K worth of Bitcoin in a year? Well, you could use Vexel and just buy as much as you want. Yeah, I mean, through exchanges or through regulated entities. Again, in theory, but as we understand it, I mean, this, this regulation is completely ineffective. You could have an account with five different exchanges. They don't really share information between each other. They're just box ticking. They need to do this to get regulated. Okay. Wow. It's ridiculous. So all of those negative effects from just one little change. To call it restricted and to treat it as if it's, well, we know why it's happening. And I think it's no coincidence where it happens in the UK, the home

of, you know, of the Royal Bank of England. And that's kind of the one of the centers of where Fiat comes from and they know what Bitcoin is. They're very much afraid of it, I believe. It's really interesting. I oscillate between that position and thinking they just haven't got a clue. It's, I don't know which is right. And that is true too. Maybe they're both true. I think there's a combination. Yeah. But yeah. Okay, but you think it's still important because we need to make a change in how they view Bitcoin. And do you think they will change the way they view? Honestly, in some ways, I don't think it, matters that much how they view it because I think Bitcoin will gradually become more adopted

anyway. But again, a simple change. Banks are still very reluctant to allow you to transfer money to exchanges. And that is a policy matter and that directly affect individuals who live in the UK. So to the extent that any of our lobbying work can ensure that legitimate Bitcoin businesses don't lose their bank accounts, that if you and our British citizens, we can easily transfer our own money to an exchange, which is regulated by the FCA to buy Bitcoin, and we don't have our bank account shut. Those are, I think, are important steps because, back to your original point, yes, the protocol doesn't care, but the person who lives in that state, who is affected by those

rules, does care. So that's where our work will be focused, not on protocol change. Got it. Okay. Good luck there. Let's talk about what's good. Like I'm taking it back to the state of things in the UK and the surveillance and everything. You just told me before we started recording about what's happening in Belfast.

What are they doing that is now creating even more restrictions and more excuses for them to clamp down on free speech and people's rights? Yeah, so it's very odd. So unfortunately, if any of your listeners and watches are not aware, there was a horrible violent incident in Belfast where a man, I understand, with special needs, was attacked and essentially attempted murder. The man I understand had been, I think he was an immigrant to first to the UK, I believe, and then to Northern Ireland,

although you might want to fact-check that. And that has led to an explosion of anger and, unfortunately, of more violence. And interestingly, whenever this happens, the reaction of the Labour government immediately seems to be to attack social media, and in particular to attack X and Twitter, rather than to acknowledge that this widespread violence wouldn't be happening if there wasn't a simmering sense of anger in the population.

It's not a normal reaction to, even to a violent attack on the street. And I think the fact that it's happening points to something rather deeper and more disturbing that is going on in British society. And there seems to be a total failure, particularly of the Labour government, to acknowledge that. And what is happening in society? People are fed up already? I mean, you had 12,000 people sent to jail last year because of social media posts. Like, where are things going? Well, we don't want people to be mean on Twitter, do we? You know, saying hurty words is very bad.

And it's in many state. Well, I think the Labour government hates Twitter particularly because every time any of their ministers write anything, they get community noted immediately. I think it's worth double-checking this. I think Kirstarmer may have the record for the most number of community notes of any one person. Amazing. Yes.

So they don't, and again, unfortunately, I think there's no conclusion you can reach other than that it comes down to their desire for control. controlling speech, thought, and behavior. Because particularly since Elon Musk acquired Twitter X, it has been a platform, yes, there may be misinformation there, but it's also somewhere where people can speak relatively freely in a relatively uncensored way. And I'm a free speech maximalist. I believe that you should be able to say whatever you like, even if what you say is offensive and wrong and mistaken. Because if you say something that's, that I disagree with, I can challenge you. And that is how dialogue and dialectic works. You know, if you say something

horrendously offensive, I'm just, I'm perfectly within my rights to, not that you would, I'm perfectly within my rights to call you out on that. And, you know, that's how a free society works and eventually become self-regulating. But everything we've seen from the Labour government has suggested they want to go down the censorship and silencing route. And I'm afraid I think that's because they want to control what people think. And then if we zoom out even more, why do you think that trajectory is happening? Why do you think they want to control everything we say? What's the path that they want to take society through?

Well, bluntly, I think they want to control what people think and feel because they know that if more people were able to communicate how dissatisfied they feel with society, then they would lose power. So bluntly, I think you can draw a line straight from their efforts and attempts at control towards their fear of losing power. Politicians, I mean, I'm going to be mean generally here, they tend not to care about what their people think. They only care about getting reelected.

And the big worry in the UK is that people are so fundamentally upset and angry. And, you know, you raised a good point earlier, what's going on, what lies behind that simmerating violence. And it's the same problems, ultimately to do with, you know, I think money, printing that we encounter all over the place. In Britain, our roads are crumbling, our infrastructure is broken, our trains don't run properly, we've got to a position where, I don't know if you saw the concrete scandal in kids' schools. Many schools in the 1990s were made with porous concrete which has been collapsing. Schools are underfunded. We spend more, we spend twice on servicing

our national debt than we do on the military. Right. And these problems are getting worse and worse and worse, housing is unaffordable. We're raising a generation of children now who may themselves never have children and have a deep sense of hopelessness about the future, which is awful. And then I want to tie this to something bigger because, you know, you sit here and you say how incompetent government or politicians can be. And I agree with you. Is it just they're doing?

or is there a tie here to a larger agenda, a system, like the Fiat decay that you're talking about, what is happening on a larger scale? Because we know it's not just a British issue. It's everywhere in the world right now, especially in the West. And what's driving this and where are we going to land? Like, technocracy is getting stronger and stronger, the control through. technology. There's a transhumanism path somewhere in the horizon wanting to turn us to like semi-machine, semi-humans. Like, where are they trying to build? And then what's the alternative

path? What do you see that can give people hope and where we can take them? Interesting. I mean, just putting it out there, if there is a transhumanism path where I can become a Terminator, I'm totally signing up for that. I should have known that you'd say that. Before we get into the more serious point. I can so imagine you with like the... Torn off face. More seriously, though, I think a lot of this...

I'm always a fan of the... I don't have you heard the phrase, cock up, not conspiracy. So never ascribe to malice what could equally well be ascribed to incompetence. And I think a lot of this has happened arguably by accident. And I'd actually trace quite a lot of it to... Actually, Janis Verifakis, of whom I'm...

not necessarily a fan, but he had a really good description of debt in one of his books. And the idea behind debt and credit is in small doses is actually really useful. Because conceptually, credit allows you to pull profits from the future and spend them in the present. That's essentially what borrowing is. So let's say I want to start a bicycle shop, but I'm starting from scratch, and I go to the bank and I get a loan, and the bank will look at my projected business, modeling for my bicycle business over the next few years and say, yeah, so you're going to make six bikes every every six weeks and you'll sell them for this profit and then over a period of

six years you might have that amount of profit. So we're going to lend you, you know, 120,000 pounds today to set up and you pull those profits in the future and spend them in the present. Unfortunately, we've done that on a massive national scale in a way that's become completely dissociated from underlying value. And it's a truism to say that, you know, money unfortunately is very easy to create nowadays, but value is hard. It hasn't got any easier to create actual value to make those bicycles. But it's become easier and easier to create value and to spend it now. Yeah, to create money and spend it now. And you see that, I think, in the mortgage market, particularly. Most people don't realize that modern money, most modern money is created by commercial

banks, not even by central banks. So we go to the bank, we get a mortgage for a house. The bank doesn't take your deposits and give them to me, it creates that money digitally, credits it to my account, and then also credits the loan to its own account as an interest-bearing asset, thereby massively ramping up the prices of houses and also hugely increasing the amount of money in circulation. And the house hasn't got any more valuable. It's just a house. And unfortunately, and I think I'm tainted somewhat by my personal. personal history here, I think the only ends of this is large-scale currency collapse. We forget that most currencies don't survive for very long. You mentioned the Bank of England

earlier. Sterling, I think, is the oldest surviving currency that's still in use today. And even that is only a few hundred years old. The US dollar is relatively young. The euro is only 25 years old. It never went through a reset in the last few hundred years? No, it hasn't. No, not since six. Not since 16 and 17-100-100 years old. Unlike many of the fiat currencies are out. Yeah. Well, I mean, Zimbabwe, I think, is on its fifth currency even since I was a kid.

Incredible. Same in Argentina, five times. Is it five times? Yeah. In the last, from the 70s, yeah, 50 years or so, 55 years. Yes. And of course, the worst example of that is the Weimar Republic. I'm sure you've read when money dies.

I haven't read it, but. Oh, do. Well, actually, no, it's super depressing. but it's an excellent book. Okay. But it's terrifying because that was large-scale currency collapse leading to the awful events of the 30s and 40s. Yeah, and we're sitting here in Czech Republic

that also experienced that when they had a regime change. The first thing they did is reset the money. Yeah, go on, sorry. Oh, no, that was the kind of conclusion. But the interesting thing about our world now, and maybe to end on a sort of more hopeful note, it's an interesting intellectual game to see whether you can tie money back to value in a way that we couldn't do previously because the value was of most previous sound currencies was gold and obviously that has limitations in terms of storage and transmission

Lynn Alden is very good on the idea that when the telegraph was invented that basically spelled the end of the road for gold because we could transact across the Atlantic instantaneously but settlement took two weeks we now have a digital money that you can transmit at the speed of light, so you can have instantaneous settlement and transaction. And if our bankers were sufficiently imaginative, you could imagine a world where we had, I don't know, a Charmian e-cash issued by the Bank of England pegged against Bitcoin, fully exchangeable for Bitcoin as well,

a valuable, hard money. But that's a bit of a pipe dream of mine. I don't know if it's possible. Well, Simon Dixon tried to set up a bank in the UK and failed because it was a full reserve bank and they would not allow anything like that to exist. No, but I mean back to the debt point. Everyone is addicted to easy money creation and to debt. Yep, that's right. Okay, let's talk a bit about privacy.

So you published a privacy toolkit with the Bitcoin Policy UK. What's the number one thing that people in the UK should be doing right now that they're not even aware of or they're not even thinking about when it comes to privacy? I would have given a different answer to that question a week ago, I think. I think a week ago I would have suggested you just change your default search engine on your phone and on your computer. Very simple thing. It takes three seconds. Switch from Google or from Bing or whatever you're using to something like duck, dot go. Yes, but now.

Well, now. After they clearly told you that they're going to surveil all devices, yes. What would you answer now? I think I'd now ask people very seriously to go get a Google Pixel phone and install Graphene OS on it right now while you still have the chance. And as you rightly point out, the reason I say that is because of this on-device scanning idea. it's extremely offensive to me as an idea that you can buy a computer, buy a tablet,

buy a phone, and be told what software you can and can't run on it and what you can and can't do with it. It's artie bonkers. And it's, it is the digital equivalent of you buying a blank pad of paper and being told by the government, oh yeah, but you mustn't draw any naked women on that. It's like, well, you know, get lost. I like, no, no, not that I do that. It's completely insane.

And it looks as though Apple and Google are going to implement on-device scanning. Actually, insane story. A friend of mine from X was stepping through the flow for Apple to see how this actually worked. A friend that works at X? Oh, no. A friend that you know. Okay. He's a non-on, so I won't express his name.

He took a couple of two pictures. He took a picture of some mushrooms. some totals growing on his lawn and some images of heavy rain. And in each case, Appel warned him that the images that he was about to send were potentially offensive. What? No, no, seriously. Are you serious? Yeah, I'll tag you underneath his post, I'll find it.

It's completely nuts. So the on-device scanning was functioning, but it was identifying mushrooms and heavy rain as potentially offensive. Oh, my God. Oh, my Lord. So yeah, to your point with GrafinoS, which is an open source operating system for devices, today you have Google Pixel that can work with that operating system, but we're hearing, I don't know if that's going to happen, that Motorola is going to also start working with GraphinoS,

which is good news because we will see more hardware manufacturers, hopefully working with open source operating systems. I had on my show, Hakeem Anwar that runs above phone, which is Google Pixel phones or any type of devices and computers or tablets running GraphenOS. For those people who don't know how to install it themselves and how to do all the work, they already have the ready made hardware and software suite for people who want to experience alternative application software on the Graphene OS devices. So yeah, sorry that I'm plugging it in, but it's just like such a brilliant tool.

I have the above phone and it's really awesome. And the toolkit you made, that document, I recommend people, we'll put a link to it maybe so that people can download that and look through the different types of software and hardware that you're recommending people to look into because I think it's becoming more and more critical, especially in the UK, that people start educating themselves on what's available out there because it's coming at them faster than they understand, right? Yeah, 100%. And our privacy guide, we put it together with the view that you don't need to do everything on it

and it's graduated. So if you want to just take a few small steps to get a little bit better, then you can do those. And it's important, I think, to situate yourself on it. So are you a regular citizen living in a relatively secure, safe country? Are you a journalist operating, you know, behind enemy lines and you need the highest level of privacy and protection? So it's a sliding scale. So locate yourself on it. And then there'll be an appropriate sort of things that you can do in that situation.

Might also give a shout out to Ben Sessions, who was... BTC sessions. Exactly, BTC sessions. He's going to be running a new YouTube channel called Sovereign Sessions, which I'm very much looking forward to. And I think he'll be covering a lot of the same territory that we did. For sure. And in general, that topic of digital sovereignty and digital privacy are becoming

so critical that more and more creators are going to go in that direction. Naomi Brockwell is doing great work. She is. Right? You know, if we're already plugging all those great resources, I just did an episode not long ago with John Burnett, who has a digital privacy course for free, and he has a community around that. So like there's ample resources out there.

You just really need to take an action in that direction because it's becoming really critical that people defend themselves digitally. as well, right? And obviously, Bitcoin is another tool in that toolkit. If you're not there yet, then what are you waiting for? Okay, let's talk a little bit about lightning. B-Huddle, B-Huddle's business model is routing Bitcoin transactions through Lightning Notes. What does it tell you about where Bitcoin is heading? This is now a viable business, that people actually can set up companies like that. That's what they do. Tell us a little bit about layer two of Bitcoin and what kind of market you're opening there.

Sure. So in terms of what the company actually does, if you take a step back to the genesis of it, the idea was to answer the joke that you used to be on Alan Farrington's T-shirt, where does the yield come from? Which, you know, he used to wear that in the days of blockfire and Celsius and all of those other terrible incidents that happened a few years ago. For us, the, we set out to try and show that you could create a viable business. generating income in Bitcoin, which combined the ideas of store value and media with exchange. For us, those two things are not mutually exclusive. And we wouldn't be buying... That's music to my...

There you go. Please, go on. I mean, we wouldn't be buying Bitcoin if we didn't think it was valuable. And we're also very much focus on payments. So most of our team have got a strong background in pay tech, particularly on Lightning. So two of our engineers have been working on Lightning, more or less since the lightning white paper came out. Our chair is David Jakes. He is ex-chairman of PayPal,

heavily focused on paytech. And in my previous life, one of the startups that I worked at as a lawyer was a pay-tick company, and that was where I helped them to build on the business side their Bitcoin cashback model. So I've been very excited about payment for a long time. Yesterday we listened to a cashback,

a beautiful cashback. presentation at the Freedom Tech Summit, that guy that talked about how do we create the incentive for people to use Bitcoin as payments more? Yeah, 100%. I really enjoyed that one, actually. And to your point earlier, the first time we ever met, we were talking about the freedom to transact. That was why CBDCs is so dangerous. They control your freedom to spend your money as you see fit. And so I think being able to spend your money freely on what you choose is fundamental. important to all of your other human rights and your freedoms as an individual person. So B. Hoddle was a nice meld of those two elements. And for us, we've got sort of two business lines

at the moment. One is actually running the routing nodes. So I think most of your listeners will already know how lightning works, but in very simple terms, keeping it sort of on a layperson level, obviously the base layer is incredibly secure, unbelievably censorship resistant. What's called the blockchain? The blockchain itself, or the time chain if we want to be pedantic about it. But not everyone will understand that. The neat thing about Lightning is there are only two transactions written to the base layer because those, as we know, are slow.

You need to wait for the block to be confirmed. And then being prudent, you should wait for a number of block confirmations in case there's an orphan block and your transaction goes back into the Mempool, for example. So with Lightning, you and I open a channel between us. and that's the initial transaction that's written to the base layer. And then while that's open, we can make as many payments as we like between ourselves. And if I want to pay someone in France that I'm not connected to, but you are, I can root my payment through you. And you charge a tiny fee on that.

So from a commercial perspective, the interesting thing about that as a business model is that once you lock the capital into the channel, it's not consumed by being locked in the channel. It stays there. It's still mine. It's still valuable. but it enables almost an infinite number of transactions to ping between us. And so the light bulb moment for you considering this from a commercial perspective is that you're endlessly recycling the capital in your node, you're not consuming it. And the more that capital turns over, the more yields you'll generate for yourself denominated in Bitcoin. So the moment we, when we went to market with our first rooting node, we were hitting

about 6% APR on deployed capital, which was great for us. and we want to continue building out our stable of rooting nodes. And just two weeks ago, we launched our second business within B-Hoddle, which was the LSP, Lightning Services provider. Okay. What kind of services? So a key one that a lot of people will encounter, for example, if you use Phoenix wallet, you'll know that in order to receive payments,

you need to have what's called inbound capacity. So if you think of your lightning wallet as a bottle, before you have inbound capacity, your bottle is basically full of water, so you can't receive any payments. So you need to effectively to rebalance the channel and to acquire some inbound capacity to enable other people to pour water into that bottle. So what we do is we provide that capacity to you inbound liquidity and the key piece of our LSP business is to act as a liquidity provider to the network. And over time, we believe this will have, continue to have a virtuous cycle effect. So the more people who are able to use lining easily and cheaply, the more people

will do it. I mean, again, the freedom of always a good example. Three quarters of the world's population live under authoritarian regimes. And one of the first things, I think it's three quarters, no. It's very depressing. It's worse than it was 20 years ago. When you count the West? Actually, I don't think you count the UK in that. I'm sure you don't, but I think we should start because it's like getting out of hand. Yeah, sorry. Had to make a joke.

You depress me. Sorry. No, in the nicest way possible. But, you know, being able to... So actually, what the first thing authoritarian do is often to throttle people's use of money. Financial repression is very, very easy. It's a very easy way of controlling people. I can't travel to a protest against the government if I can't buy a train ticket.

So it's a very easy way for them to flip the switch on and off. And so having access to unsensurable money that travels at speed of light is incredibly important. And personally and commercially, again, we're not operating a charity here. We believe that there's a huge growth opportunity in lightning payments. There's only 5,000 Bitcoin or so locked into the network at the moment. and that capital is entity turning over. In lightning, yeah, lightning channels. That's not much.

No, it's not. When you consider that the Swift Network moves about a quadrillion of value per year. So we think there's a huge opportunity here for companies like ourselves that are positioning to take advantage of that lightly rooting income and LSP demand in the future. Your The Voice is brought to you by Treasor, the original Bitcoin Hardware Wallet Company, pioneering the development of self-custody for crypto-executive. since 2013, empowering individuals with an open source device, enabling beginners and experts to easily and securely hold their coins. I find my Treasurer super easy to use and recommend it to

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It's about freedom, privacy and purpose. You can book a free strategy call, see how it works, and mine some of your first Bitcoin for free with a special offer for my audience. Learn more on abundant minds.com slash effrat. Okay, so now I have to ask you a question. If you consider that the best trajectory for us is to continue developing layer 2 protocols and different ways of using, Bitcoin as money so that we can fulfill its full potential. How do you see then digital credit that is being issued by so many treasury companies today, or not so many, but prominent ones in this space actually. But that term is becoming so prevalent because there is such a push to

create another way of monetizing or financializing Bitcoin back. credit and and use that as money, use that as a token that you can exchange between people or just generate yield from. Is that something that is going to harm layer two protocols in the long term? Or can they coexist and you don't see it as an issue? I think I'd go down the coexistence route. So again, coming from a sort of corporate background and also layering in the idea of transactional freedom of choice, I don't see those things as necessarily

affecting each other negatively. And I suppose the 60,000 foot view of this I take is that if we're right about Bitcoin becoming the lynchpin of a completely new global financial system, people are going to be using it in all kinds of different ways. And it's not for me to tell them how to do that. So the need of a pension fund, for example, to buy a stable instrument that's going to return it a yield is completely different from the need of someone who's living in Zimbabwe near Victoria Falls, whose currently may be collapsing but is able to use Machankura on their 3G phone to pay for a haircut.

You guys go Google Matchankora and see what it is. Yes, Matchamara, a fantastic product. So I don't necessarily see those things as, They're both money. I think what I'm alluding to is when we start issuing all those monetary instruments on top of Bitcoin, it kind of perpetuates its role as digital gold or just a store of value and it doesn't really allow it to reach its full potential as money while what you're doing is trying to revive Bitcoin as money using layer two protocols of Lacheney.

It's an interesting question because arguably we're doing. both. Yeah, and I agree with you that it's not mutually exclusive and it doesn't have to be competing. I think that the key is what's the purpose behind what you're doing? And if your purpose is providing a payment service to people who need to use Bitcoin for daily payments, that's one use case. And another use case is you're issuing instruments to an insurance fund or a pension fund, giving it a stable yield. And that's also okay. It's rather interesting. to examine the infighting when I don't think, you know, we've got many enemies that we should be fighting. We shouldn't be fighting each other. I agree. And plus, it's so beautiful and interesting

that we have this entity called Bitcoin that can be so many different things to different people or use cases or demographics or even geographical locations. Like it can serve so many purposes. So that is very unique. Yeah. And again, returning to gold, you know, gold worked for us for a very long time. But, and it served both as a straw value, gold bars, gold ingots, kept in central bank vaults, and also as coinage. And gold is used as coinage and ironically still can be. You can still buy Golden Eagles in the US. You can still buy sovereigns in the UK. Although rather amusingly, the sovereign, I forget what the actual face value is, but there's a coin called the Britannia, which has a face value of 10 pounds.

So if you went into a pub, you could buy two pints with that. No way. Yeah, yeah. It's still legal tender. But the gold value. But why would you do it? Right. Yeah, the face value is 10 pounds, but the gold value, I think, is now about 200 pounds. Wow, I didn't know that legally that's the meaning of it. Like, they should accept it. Of course, they'd accept it. Well, they'd be delighted. They've just made a straight profit there about £180.190. That's beautiful. And okay, and just one last word about B-Hoddle. And what do you think the trajectory of? more Bitcoin treasury companies is and how important is it that businesses and companies start their own Bitcoin reserve and not everyone can go public, definitely not that fast as well, but also in general, just having a treasury and having a reserve of Bitcoin. Honestly, I think it's very, very sensible. And if you go back all the way to Saylor's original idea, he was sitting on a big cash pile

at MicroStreenergy and was aware that it was melting. Apple's cash pile I think is bigger than almost any other companies in history. And as we said earlier, it's been continually debased by the creation of more and more money. So once you get your head around the debasement point and then you look at Bitcoin, it's prudent to, you know, in corporate terms to diversify your exposure to different asset classes. And if you want to see Bitcoin simply as a way to do that, fair enough. It's obviously many more things than that. But like I said earlier, your use of Bitcoin will be determined by the problem that you're trying to solve.

And I think we should be problem solving driven rather than just start with a solution and then impose that on everyone afterwards. Yep, totally agree. Okay. And what do you think is coming in terms of the UK's trajectory with Bitcoin, the UK trajectory in general, the UK trajectory in general? I know it's hard to predict, and I know prediction is for fools. We cannot predict the future. But, you know, it's interesting to hear your opinions about where things are going. And also what's most important for you to put your focus on.

Lovely questions. I'm a bit of a naive optimist. I like to think that we endlessly iterate and we slowly move towards a better and better future. And if I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. I love it. Yes. And the trajectory of the UK is hard to predict at the moment. I think we're not in a good place at the moment.

Like we said earlier, there's a lot of anger, a lot of resentment, a lot of fear as well. In terms of its trajectory with Bitcoin, I think we are beginning to make a little bit of progress. So the restricted mass market investment designation that we talked about earlier, the FCA seemed to have overreached there. They created that definition in the face of opposition from the industry. and as a result, they've lost a lot of credibility in terms of the other things they can do. So some of what we've been pushing back on through BPUK and actually now through B-Hoddle, so we as a company have been contributing to these consultations as well,

because it's in our commercial interest to do that, and that of our shareholders. We've noted that they've been falling back from some of their more aggressive positions. So to give you a couple of examples, there was a push to restrict the use of credit cards and credit in general from being able to use to buy Bitcoin to stop you from using a credit card. They've now dropped that proposal in the face of opposition from us and from others. There was an idea that the conduct of business rules which apply to, for example, financial services firms should apply aggressively to Bitcoin companies. That's being stepped back a little bit.

Really interestingly, and this is something we've been arguing for since 2022, even before we set up BPUK, they seem to be recognizing that self-custody and, and infrastructure services like our LSP are not actually financial services and aren't within the scope of the regulation. So they're very focusing. Wow. Yeah, I know. Surprising.

That's a big step. Right. And we're wanting them to go a little bit further. So there's, again, without going to the boring legal detail, there's an article in MECA, the marketing crypto assets activity regulation has been put in place by the EU, which explicitly says this regulation does not apply to the makers of hard. and software of self-custody devices, so hardware wallets and software that enable self-custody.

So that self-custacy actually carved out of me who explicitly in that provision. We've quoted that in submissions to the government and to the FCA and said, this is what the EU are doing. We should recognise this as well. They're nearly there, but we'd like to keep pushing that. I mean, in terms of broader Bitcoin adoption in the UK, we're sitting at about, I think, between 7 and 10% of people in the UK own it, that may be enough. And I think as more and more people see the value of their money destroyed, unfortunately, you know, you do learn by touching

the hot stove. We were saying earlier about in the privacy context, what would we recommend people do to protect themselves? Unfortunately, most people don't take steps to protect themselves until they've touched the stove. My house was burgled in 2014. At that time, I didn't have an alarm or security system. I now have both. But, you know, sometimes you have to get Bergle first before. And this is very good because I think UK audience is like number four or five on my list of my audience, which is fantastic. I did an episode not long ago with Alan Miller from Together, the Together Alliance. They've been pushing back on the digital ID. Correct, correct. And I I think many of my audience are in that camp of like really wanting freedom and really are willing

to fight for it. And I think many of them are really becoming disparate or, you know, finding it quite depressive with what's happening in the UK. But they also really do want solutions, but they are still afraid of Bitcoin. Where would you direct them to go? How would you alleviate some of those concerns? I think for most of them, it's like, you. It's digital. Digital is bad because we're seeing what they're doing with digital stuff.

Like we understand that digital is a double-edged sword. So what would you say to those people listening to us from the UK that really haven't made their first step into Bitcoin yet? I actually cite two pieces of reading, perhaps, that are very non-aggressive. And if you have any curiosity at all, are wonderful things to read. One is by an anonan called Armand the Parman. You may have come across him. He wrote a number of brilliant guys, and the one I'm thinking of is a not too technical guide to this thing called Bitcoin. Oh, nice.

It's a lovely piece of writing. Can you send me a link to it? Yeah. We'll add it. I'll try to do it immediately after the week to record. It's a fascinating thing to read because he starts himself from a position of skepticism. He said he wasn't sure what it was. He was curious about it, but he didn't know what to do.

And he takes you through his own personal journey. It's not a long piece, but it's really interesting to read. and he gradually understands what the ledger is. And the key thing about Bitcoin and mining, a lot of it sounds very alien to a new audience. But once you grasp the idea that money is a ledger and no one can change the Bitcoin ledger unless they expend electricity and hardware costs

and mining is a competition to determine the sequence of transactions in the ledger, all of those little dominoes fall into place and then you realize to your digital point, you realize quite how secure and robust the system is, and then you have a fantastic light bulb moment. So I definitely recommend Armin. And then if you're still curious after reading that, go and have a look at the stuff that Gigi used to write.

Yes. I love his work so much. Shout out to Gigi, the master amazing. Huge shout out to Gigi. The one I'm thinking of in particular there is the implications of outlawing Bitcoin. And actually my first venture into public Bitcoin life was experimenting with something that he describes in that article. What does it mean to ban Bitcoin?

And this comes back actually to the point we were talking about earlier. If you're banning Bitcoin, you're banning speech and thought and mathematics, you're banning a child sitting in their room flipping a coin. And I did this experiment with my kids. We got a coin. We wrote a zero and a one on either side. We flipped it 256 times. wrote down the sequence of zeros and ones, created a key, created a wallet, and then I tweeted that video out to Elizabeth Warren because she was at that time in the US proposing legislation

that would have made my kids a money transmission business. Oh my God. That is genius. Yes. Genius. And once you grasp that, I mean, my mind is still blown. I've been in this space for a long time. the idea that you can use entropy anywhere in the world to generate a private key and receive money

is quite an extraordinarily mind-blowing concept. And it's one that I'm still excited by today. I agree with you. When did you come into Bitcoin? What year was it? So I first came across it in 2013, but I didn't buy any then. That was in the context of the Cypriot banking crisis. I regret not buying any back then, obviously.

But, oh, this is interesting. And then I remember hearing when the Winkov's twins had first born, And then there was a massive crash afterwards. And again, much to my shame, I thought, ha, ha, ha, those guys can't catch a break. They got shot on Facebook. No, they've bought this digital money and they've lost all their money. Ha, ha.

And then I first started running a node in 2015. Okay. But again, that was just curiosity. Yes. Because I used to build computers for gaming. Oh, did you? And yeah, and I thought I was, okay, I'm going to try mining now. I didn't realize.

It's funny that that's how you started with running a node and wanting to mine. Like that's not how most people start. No, it's weird, actually. I was running a node before I owned any Bitcoin. Right. Wow. Okay. But again, you know, I was a geek.

I love tink around with computers. Yeah. So 2015 was a real. And when's the first time you actually had some coins? When you started mining? Well, I think I lost money on mining because A-6 had come out the year before. Okay. So, no, I think I lost money.

Later than that. Later. Very cool. Very cool journey. Okay, and anything else you want to add before we wrap up, this has been fascinating and we've touched so many different topics, but I think it's really great how we brought it all together. I think all I'd add is don't give up hope. Right. There is a lot you can do as an individual to protect yourself, to make your life better, to make the lives of your children better and your experience in whichever country you live in.

We need to remember that, you know, our enemies may be many, but we're more numerous than they are. And I think writers on our side as well. So don't give up. Beautiful. What gives you hope? People. I like people. And Bitcoin, obviously.

Yeah. And your kids? Oh, of course. Fantastic. Okay. Where should people go and follow you and your work on the different things we said? We have B-Hoddle. We have the policy UK.

X is the easiest or Twitter. I'm at Freddie Neu. And my N-Pub for Nostro is in my bio. I do also post on LinkedIn, but don't go on LinkedIn. Disgusting. No, it's horrible. Okay, and B-Hoddle? Easy.

That's Bihuddle.com. Okay. BitcomPolce, UK. We'll put a link to that too. Thank you. Step down. It doesn't matter. Yeah, we'll have a long show notes.

It's fine. My audience is used to that. I didn't want to give you a little anecdote when you talked about how important it is that we enable the freedom to transact with lightning payments or with any money. Like we need to have the freedom to transact. So just so you know, there's a video of, I don't remember his first name, surname Chip Polani, the guy from the ECB, the European Central Bank. And he's kind of like taking Lagarde's place now, especially around CBDCs and the digital Euro. And in that video where I posted on my feed a few days ago, he says, he speaks to the European

Commission trying to convince them why they need to sign off on the digital Euro papers and advance the legislation. And he says, what we're doing here is giving the European citizens the freedom to choose what kind of money they will use and what kind of transaction, what kind of payment methods they will use. So the digital euro is supposed to enable that freedom. we care about the value of freedom. He says that, like, they're literally using those words in the context of the digital Euro-CBCDC. So it's just mind-blowing to me.

This is like the least free thing you can think of. That's gaslighting and it's best. He probably believes it. No one believes they're the bad guy, do they? So he'll be saying these things, but, you know, he'll believe. And, you know, Socrates said this in the platonic dialogues. Everyone believes they're a good person. Yes, I think so. They convince themselves of that.

Hopefully we're not wrong. You can, you know, don't trust, verify, go check everything we said and make up your own mind. But we think we're right. Well, it's been a pleasure, Freddie. Thank you so much for everything you do and who you are and I love chatting with you. Thank you so much. It's a been a real pleasure. I'm so pleased we actually finally got to chat. I know.

Me too. Pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for being with us. please take a minute to give this episode a like, comment, and subscribe and hit the notification bell to be notified when I release my next episode. All this really helps me beat the suppression of the algorithms. Take a moment to check my sponsors and affiliation offers and the show notes. That's how you support me and the show, ensuring I can carry on with my mission. Lastly, please share this with your friends so they can also get value and choose to take some positive action. Till next time.