You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Ep. 39: Freedom, Technology & Sovereignty [Efrat on Robin Seyr’s Podcast]

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

This is a guest episode - Robin Seyr interviewed me on his podcast, and I decided to share it on “You’re The Voice”.  Our conversation explores the relationship between fiat currency and wars, with a focus on the situation in Israel. It is suggested that fiat currency enables wars and that the modern society's incentive structure encourages negative behavior. The conversation also delves into the potential impact of a Bitcoin standard on wars, with the belief that it could change the incentive structure and promote fairness. The importance of humility and kindness in the Bitcoin industry is highlighted, as well as the potential for the industry to inspire positive change. Efrat Fenigson discusses the importance of spirituality and reconnecting with oneself, the need for women to promote themselves and take initiative, and the value of teaching children about inflation and the flaws of the fiat system. ► If you got value, please like, comment, share, follow and support my work. Thank you! -- SPONSORS – ►► Get your TREZOR wallet & accessories, with a 5% discount, using my code at checkout (get my discount code from the episode - yep, you’ll have to watch it): https://affil.trezor.io/SHUn  -- LINKS – Robin’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RobinSeyr  Robin’s Twitter: https://x.com/RobinSeyr  Efrat's Twitter: https://twitter.com/efenigson Efrat's Telegram: https://t.me/efenigson Watch/listen on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/yourethevoice Support Efrat's work: ⁠https://www.buymeacoffee.com/efenigson⁠ Support Efrat with Bitcoin: https://geyser.fund/project/efenigson -- CHAPTERS – 00:00 Intro by Efrat 01:30 Discussion on the Current Situation in Israel 05:00 The Incentive Structure of Modern Society and its Relationship with War 10:⁠00 The Manipulation of Fear in Supporting Wars 24:00 The Potential Impact of a Bitcoin Standard on the Incentive Structure 42:00 The Bitcoin Startup Ecosystem and the Importance of Higher Thresholds 43:43 Efrat’s Takeaways from Her Podcasts 45:20 Staying Humble, Being Kind & Communicative 52:30 Exploring Efrat’s Podcast Topics 1:01:⁠30 The Importance of Female Representation in Podcasting 1:19:00 Spirituality as a Research Topic for Efrat 1:26:00 Teaching Kids About Bitcoin: Starting with Inflation

Hello, my friends. Today, I'm sharing a guest episode with you. I was interviewed recently by Robin Sear for his podcast, and I decided to add this interview to You're the Voice too, because I think you'll get value from it and get to know me a little bit better. Not everyone in my audience knows me or my background. So in this conversation, we discussed various things, the state of things in Israel from my perspective how I see the matrix in action how money works how bitcoin is different and why I find it compelling the different incentive structures that exist in today's system the different topics I cover on my podcast such as health climate money spirituality and how they are all connected differences between men and

women especially in showing up and speaking out including in the bitcoin community so there there are a lot of topics in this episode i hope you enjoy and get value check out robin's and my links in the show notes and consider sharing and supporting us if you want to pay that value forward thanks for being with me it's pretty crazy it's a shit show it's a pretty tough time is fiat enabling this what it is heavily controlled by the fabric of society which is fiat so it's like the oxygen we breathe is the fiat currency that we operate on and we don't stop to question how that system is designed how that system is operating, whether it's for my benefit or not, whether it's enslaving me or not,

whether it's serving a good purpose or not. We just take it for granted. You are going to be getting used to living an endless war because that's what the globalist powers want. 70% of people in Israel are in favor of that war. The state have made them feel like war is the best option. On a Bitcoin standard, we may not have central banks. The power that the banks and the central banks hold will decrease. Bitcoin startups have to be much more efficient and much more productive and much better at what they do than normal startups. Good and kindness exists in the world. Starting to see the broken incentive structure, the way the doctors are behaving because of the incentive structures that they have towards the government, towards the Ministry

of Health, towards the World Health Organization. Hi, Efrat. How are you doing? Everything fine on your end? Everything is great on my end. I mean, considering the situation and where I live, I'm all good. I'm fine. Oh, where do you live?

I live in Israel. Oh, man. I didn't know that. How is it over there right now? it's uh yeah it's pretty crazy it's a shit show it's a pretty tough time for people yeah quite difficult for people who choose to live here and uh and and are aware and quite awake to everything that's going on in the world and and around here it's not easy because um yeah you see a lot you understand probably things that they're not saying but they're doing um and you're not

falling to the propaganda so you can see through it and it's pretty difficult i mean i i am fine because i do a lot of work to kind of stabilize myself and and my close environment but many people around me are yeah suffering from various implications of this war this leads me uh perfectly actually to my first question is is feared enabling this was do you see there's uh something that is coming from feared or is war something human made well fiat is human made and uh and and the human nature if it is not contained and if it is not i think if if you don't as a human if you don't do work to try to improve yourself all the time it's very easy to be dragged down to the negative side of being a human with all the with all the incentives that

you get out of doing things that are negative in life. And unfortunately, I think that the modern society has been designed in such a way that the incentive structure for humans today is such that you get incentivized for doing things that are probably not good for humanity and are better for corporations or for governments or for, you know, state control or even globalist organizations. And I think that most of the people that are taking part in this negative trajectory for humanity are doing so while they are not bad people or they don't mean any evil intent or they don't have a nefarious goal behind how they behave or what they do. Most people, I would say, from what I'm seeing, from what I'm researching and learning, they're simply not engaged in any sophisticated, deep conversation with themselves firstly and with the world secondly about the implications of what they do and how they behave in the world. and they don't stop to think about the ripple effect that their existence has on the rest of humanity and so when you live like that in a way such a little bit like an automatic pilot right

you just operate without really thinking without really i mean you can think but you think about the easy things in life you don't stop to think about the harder things in life then it's very easy for you to fall prey to the traps that the modern matrix puts in front of you right you're the voice is brought to you by trezor the original bitcoin hardware wallet company pioneering the development of self-custody for crypto assets since 2013 empowering individuals with an open source device enabling beginners and experts to easily and securely hold their coins I find my Trezor super easy to use and recommend it to my friends and family. Enjoy my 5% discount on Trezor products by clicking the link in the show notes and using the code FLAT.

You have an incentive to go work for someone. You have an incentive to be a good citizen, to pay taxes, to participate in society in such a way that you will be a compliant citizen. that um you know you won't rock the boat too much and create too much fuss because society would expect you to behave a certain way so there is an incentive for you to be aligned with society with the state with the government and with corporations and and so when you're so far down in the ladder of decision making and actually making creating any significant changes you're so far down the ladder that you don't really make a real impact or a real difference in the world that you know that you can see tomorrow morning you'll say oh I'll change

something small in my life that will create a significant change and therefore I'll do it like it's really hard to create a, a, a significant change immediately. And so I think that it's way easier to just continue rolling with life the way they're designed, the way it's designed without asking questions, without trying to change things. Um, as I said, not, not from a nefarious place, but just from an easier place, from a place of convenience. And therefore you become, you know, just a small pawn on the chess game of the matrix. And that matrix, the way I see it, is heavily controlled by the fabric of society, which is fiat. So it's like the oxygen we breathe is the fiat currency that we operate on. And we don't stop to question how that system is designed,

how that system is operating whether it's for my benefit or not whether it's enslaving me or not whether it's you know serving a good purpose or not we just take it for granted and just like the air we breathe it's the money we use right it's it's that very very basic fabric of life that is fiat and so when we take it for granted you know so if if you take that as a first principle as a basic assumption that everyone runs on the same oxygen the same fiat without questioning anything and fiat we know there is an equation that it incentivizes wars because of the you know the the military industrial complex and the money that is being made when you go out to war when you conquer a land or an area but also when you have property rights over other areas and then after a

war when you have to rebuild then you also get the fiat machine working because you need more money to justify the building after you ruin something so the whole the whole system the whole structure is incentivized in such a way that war is like in a way something that stimulates the economy and it's a good thing and so i mean a good thing people know war is not a good thing but they they they are naturally incentivized to go with the flow and to enable it because in the end of the day it's there are a lot of incentives to do it and so yeah so you know to cut a long story short i think that by taking fiat for granted we also have grown to take wars for granted and just like julian assange said you are going to be getting used to living an endless war because that's what

the globalist powers want they want you to kind of think that it's normal to live an endless war and when there is no war that is like your that is like the special time but you know your your normal life will be accompanied by some kind of a battle some kind of a war and i think many people got used to it it's not like we want wars people know they don't want war but when it's here or when it's coming they are eating all the baits and falling for all the traps and believing all the excuses that they're being given for why this war is essential for why now we have to you know do this or participate in this and why they also have to sacrifice a lot of things in their lives to make it happen and and they do and so yeah i think you know if you look at the

statistics now in israel we are everyone knows you know we're like at the cusp of uh perhaps breaking another war with Iran or in the north of Lebanon and north sorry north of Israel with the south of Lebanon right on the border there with Hezbollah forces that are that are funded by Iran so this could be a break of another battle in this third world war that we're living right Now, I just saw a statistic that is staggering for me that around about, don't catch me on the exact number, but around about 70% of people in Israel are in favor of that war, of, you know, launching that battle with Hezbollah. And you think about it, it's like 70% or maybe even more, it's like most of the people in Israel are actually waging war when a lot of the people in that area in the north of Israel are uprooted from their homes for about eight months or nine months, ten months. They don't have a normal life. They are living in hotels or they're living in a relative's house or whatever. And their life is completely upside down. And still they're like, yeah, bring on the war. Why? Because they feel unsafe and because the government and the state have made them feel like war is the best option. And that's ridiculous in my eyes. And it's not like I don't want Israel to protect itself. I live here. Right. I want protection. But I, you know, I look at it from a more zoomed out perspective of this whole war and who does it serve and why it's happening.

And yeah, so it's very difficult. And it's a very complex conflict. And it's very hard to be deterministic about this whole situation. I have a lot of compassion for people on all sides that are being hurt from this conflict. and there are many atrocities that are being done at the moment in the name of this holy war so it's very sad and it's very hard to be living in such a situation in such a place yeah so yeah i'm sorry that that's the opening for my interview but this is real this is the reality i live in i think it's a great opening actually for a bitcoin conversation because it shows for me the the fiat problem i'm not 100 sure if if we can stop wars with a bitcoin standard but we can get into this a little later um what i hear a lot when we talk about wars and when we talk about uh things like that um why people do that or why is it causing and what's the real

reason for for for war is for me like um when when there's a leader uh in a country uh and there is a war coming out uh the people i think are more uh likely to follow this leader in a in a catastrophic situation because they are fearful they they want protection they want a strong leader and for me i i'm asking myself or like i'm asking you the question do you think the real purpose of a war is just to keep that feared uh system or that bigger system alive because otherwise people will like oh when when you feel safe you have a different kind of life you ask different questions yeah see you're you're asking that uh to a person that lives in israel and has a slightly different view than most people in Israel, right? I have a different view and I'm embracing that

and I'm standing behind my view because of my experience in the army. I served in the army 25 years ago and because of the role that I had and what I've done and what I've seen. And so my view about this specific war and many other wars in the history of Israel is that they are designed to keep people in a constant state of fear, in a constant state of trauma. it's like even more than fear it's trauma because with fear yeah you can get a lot down done but when you actually inflict trauma on a person you have a very significant shock time frame after you do a certain event and you may have heard about the movie or the book the shock doctrine by uh naomi naomi wolf i think her name is um it's a it's a really stunning book and and movie which i recommend people to see if they have a strong stomach because it's a tough

one but it basically shows you how the u.s has uh you know started different types of wars and coups in different places around the world, coup d'etats, right, to take over the establishment in a certain country by a tactic of a shock doctrine. You come into the country and you create some kind of event or emergency or a very shattering event that will create a shock with the society with the population in that country and during that shock period people will be so overwhelmed that they will not think straight and they will essentially be a lot more prone to almost anything that the establishment or the government wants to do in that country it will be very hard for them to resist because almost anything that the government or the state would

do at that stage would be portrayed as we're helping you or we're helping solve that problem that we now have. And so when you create that cycle of problem reaction solution or that shock that will be followed by a soothing, calming down period of the society and then introduction of a solution to solve that problem that just happened, then you are, um, in a way like, um, Stockholm syndrome when you have a, uh, you know, uh, someone that goes into, um, uh, someone that has been kidnapped and the kidnapper is then being portrayed by the good guy because he's now helping you. So it's a little bit like that.

Like the state is oftentimes the factor that had started, initiated or enabled that crisis to happen to begin with. And then the people fall prey to that, not seeing that the state has anything to do with that, but thinking that, oh, it's just happened by some coincidence or bad intent or malintent of someone from the outside, or it has nothing to do with our beloved government or state. They would never do this to us. And they will embrace the tightening control of the state over them in the guise of protecting them. You know, it's for your own safety. It's for your own betterment. We will we will be there. We will take care of you in this tough time. Let us do what we're here to do and everyone will allow it to happen. And so I was one of the first people to stand up on October 7th when the massacre happened in Israel. A few hours later, I recorded a video talking about what has just happened and what I'm thinking about it. And it was that the Israeli government has actually allowed this to happen. I mean, the state, the security forces, the intelligence forces, they've enabled this

because there is no chance from my experience and my knowledge that something like this can happen in a natural way. And, you know, I still may be wrong, but all the proofs that have been gathered until today since then are showing us that i was probably right and they knew about it and they chose or chose not to act or just simply did not act i don't know the reason exactly why i have my speculations but it doesn't matter the the point is that if indeed in this case and in many other cases in israel's history and in the history of humanity in the modern history of humanity this is the pattern that has happened again and again that a state or a government would allow

horrible things to happen to their people because they have zero value to human lives in my opinion they care about many other things but not about human lives then if this is the case and that's the pattern then history is full of such examples of where things will happen around the world we would think that they are happening with no connection to to our government or to the state or to the higher powers above that the global powers above that we would think that it's just a coincidence or a malintent where really these things are all planned and are happening because someone has an interest in starting wars or starting tough periods where they want to clamp down on human rights and and create a different order or a different you know structure in the

country and they need the cooperation of the people in order to bring this change about and the easiest way to create change is by enrolling the people into the reason of why we need that change and so when you do something like october 7th obviously most of the people of israel would go yeah bring on the war they just massacred 1400 people including children and everything in in in our country let's let's go in and wipe out gaza you know that it becomes it becomes like a an okay things to say whereas if you said that a week earlier it would sound a little bit crazy like why would i go go out there and wipe out an area of like two million people how is that even possible right so that becomes a possibility that you can actually think about a week later because of what

happened right so yeah so that's my view unpopular view but popular for me um that and and you also mentioned something very interesting that you said like 70 percent of the people the in this example that you gave were in favor or are in favor of of another war uh which also makes me a question to the original question coming back to that question do you think when we have a bitcoin standard let's let's make this example of like there is no central banks governments have to basically for everything they are doing they have to raise taxes they have to get people to to pay for for the government services so there's a completely different world when when you cannot just print money and we all use bitcoin like in a utopian

world would that um stop wars or do you think uh they will just be different because people will still have those conflicts and it's human nature to to have those conflicts i think it will not stop wars entirely first of all to to your um to the landscape that you're portraying where on a bitcoin standard we may not have central banks then obviously i pray with you that one day the whole institution of central banking will be abolished however i'm not sure that that would happen because i think that maybe we are entering a stage where the governments or the states will understand the value of bitcoin so well that they would be relatively quick to adopt bitcoin as treasury and the treasury will then have i mean the central bank will have some role with managing

the treasury i think so maybe that the the roles and the functions of the central banks will change i don't know if they will be completely abolished um but we may witness an era or an epoch at which central banking is holding reserves and there is no more fractional reserve but there is like full reserve you know like they they lend the money out to the banks the commercial banks at a one-to-one ratio and not a fractional reserve and maybe that will solve some of the problems and so i think we are going to see a gradual wherever it's going to play out however it's going to play out i'm not an economist i don't have like enough knowledge and experience to know or to speculate on how exactly this will play out but whatever way whichever way i think we will see

a gradual period of change in which the power that the banks and the central banks hold will decrease slowly. And while this change will take place, we will see an era that good behavior or a positive impact on society will be incentivized where today it's not being incentivized so much even when there is an emphasis on doing good in the world like doing a putting a positive impact on the world in the corporate world today which is the world I come from it's called corporate responsibility you want corporations or companies to develop some kind of corporate responsibility and decide what topics or what areas they are taking upon themselves in order to bring a positive change in the world whether it's the environment or

social justice of some kind or a cause like they are incentivized in a way to to participate in this game but that game is completely flawed as well because the ones that are setting the rules for that game are the globalist powers of the world economic forum or the un dictated by the sdgs does um this is forgot the s the the development goals of the un sdg stands for s development goal i forget what the s stands for you can check it up on google but sustainable development goals. That's it. Okay. Sustainable development goals. So each, each company or corporation that wants to participate in this game is taking part in adopting some of the sustainable development goals and deciding that now they are implementing like

an ESG structure. ESG stands for environmental social governance, right? So you're bringing in climate agenda climate is the environmental part or lgbtq which is a social agenda into your company or corporation which may be a private company and you're not you don't have to do it because it's a private company you can do whatever the fuck you want as a ceo of a private company but you take on that because there is an incentive structure because you are being told that if you don't implement ESG in your company, you may not receive funding from investors anymore. Investors want to invest in companies that develop a corporate responsibility that is backed by ESG and by SDGs and all these acronyms. And this is like an indirect coercion mechanism that has a really

flawed incentive structure. Why do I say it's coercion? Because you will simply not get money from investors fiat money if you don't um create those social and and climate related causes in your company you may not care about these topics at all and you just may want to focus on what your company is supposed to do but you have an incentive to actually bring in those political and social causes into your company and so the incentive structure today to participate in doing good is completely flawed because it's forcing you to focus on specific agendas and it's forcing you to do so in order to continue to live to receive money from investors and so back to your question if we are going to live in an era where the incentive structure is changing because you're

not you're not um stimulated by a coercion that if you don't do this you will not get funding but rather you have a sound money and an honest money called bitcoin that in order to receive it you have have to actually do the proof of work and prove that you're giving actual value for people and for society. Otherwise, you won't succeed and you won't get the revenues and the profit that you're supposed to make if you're not in that game of earning sound money, good money that is not coerced by fiat that can just be created and there's abundance of it and investors can just have it and decide what to do with it and who to give it to based on all these arbitrary agendas or politics, then there is a lot more fairness in the system in a very inherent way,

like sort of the DNA of the system changes, right? Because the money itself dictates the level of fairness, the level of corruption, the level of, you know, the level of manipulation that you can put in, it's way harder to earn Bitcoin than it is to earn fiat. You can earn fiat very easily by doing almost anything. Earning Bitcoin, I think it's going to be a different ballgame. And again, I know that I'm not an expert or an economist or a financial expert to explain this from a financial point of view, but I do know enough about marketing and creating demand and supply in a market for a good product and really good. And I've worked in many, many

product companies, right? Take companies, product companies that have created some value proposition to the world and recruited a lot of customers. And so I know that if your product is not good enough or not ready or not. There are many, many vectors, many parameters that need to align in order for you to succeed in business. And so with Bitcoin, you have all of these stars that have to align, plus you have money that is more scarce, that is harder to achieve, and that you actually have to prove that you're working and giving value in order to create it unless you're a scammer and you're going to steal someone's bitcoin um then then it's a lot more fair and so i think even if i don't know to to paint the picture exactly of how it's going to look like

i have a an intuition that the reality the new reality that we will live under in a bitcoin standard will force society to become more fair and more um and also more capitalistic in a way like that the good will survive and that the good ones will the ones that actually bring value to society will shine and succeed and and do better in in life and so there will be less room for mediocrity and less room for bubbles to be created speculative bubbles to be created i hope so too and it's uh when when we change the incentive structure i think this could even happen way before we have a bitcoin stand up because when bitcoin comes up and all those great bitcoiners hold all those uh wealth and all those uh um investors like you said like

you don't get investors money when you don't have the esg rules but what if all those investors are bitcoiners because the wealth is now in bitcoin this changes the game completely and all of a sudden even before we have bitcoin as a medium of exchange and unit of account this could already flip the incentive structure way earlier uh way before we have a bitcoin standard uh however this bitcoin standard will look like so i feel like the the future uh is is very pride and uh i'm very hopeful that the next 50 years so like from i'm now 25 to i'm 75 are uh a great great era in in all our lives look that makes me really hopeful what you just said the fact that we are building an ecosystem of startups and investors and innovation entrepreneurship in Bitcoin that

is based on that basic principle of, you know, liberty, fairness, sound money. It really makes me hopeful because, you know, I've been interviewing like you, a lot of amazing people that are in this space that are either entrepreneurs or investors and and i already see the differences between the fiat world the startup scene in this fiat world that i come from to the startup world of bitcoin that i'm now being exposed to and it's not only that you know these people are are good and have good intentions and obviously we all have egos so you'll get like you know ego bursts here and there for from everyone but the fact that these people have made it their life's mission to make a change in the world through bitcoin says a lot about them

and says a lot about the way that they are and will be managing their portfolio of companies and their choice, like their portfolio of companies for investors and their choice of investors for the startups. And so it's like a game where the powers are changing and the people that are playing that game are changing. And, you know, I've seen for so long, for so many years i've seen so many entrepreneurs and ceos of startups that are creating businesses and companies um based on nice ideas or you know sometimes sometimes even boring or bad ideas but they get the money they get the funding because the investors have it and the money has to trickle down the waterfall of you know society of the economy so so the money is just there so

it's going everywhere and i was like you know this is just such a waste of money such a waste of people's time such a waste of energy and so many of these startups failed most of them failed and they don't succeed and they don't go anywhere and people experience heartache and you know crises in their lives and breakdowns because of these failures because of the broken system and now i'm like seeing and i'm not saying that bitcoin startups will not fail obviously some of them will fail as well this is life it's just uh it's like that there are many reasons for a startup or a business to fail so that will continue happening but if the threshold is becoming higher. And I've heard, I think it was two days ago, I've listened to the podcast,

one of my favorites, TFTC, Marty Bent is interviewing Preston Pish, two of my favorite people, listening to them speaking about the threshold for CEOs of startups today, which is about 55 that you have to show your investors that you are making um annually this is very very high like in traditional startups it's normally like 10 12 15 tops and that's high so now for bitcoin companies it's like 55 because not only that you have to like win the market with your product, you also have to like win the Bitcoin yield, which is very high, much higher than fiat yield. So you have to rise up to like 55% return on investment for investors.

And that is a very big ask. That is a very big task. So Bitcoin startups have to be much more efficient and much more productive and much better at what they do. than normal startups like on the fiat standard right so there's a bit much bigger challenge for them to overcome and so if we are building right now that kind of industry that the threshold is so high the challenge is so high and they are successful in it then dude we are building a kick-ass industry like we're building a kick-ass ecosystem just based on these numbers that is

that is phenomenal if if we succeed in that and i hope we do and i and that's why i always say to people smart people good people like whether they're in sales or marketing or product or technology you know development or whatever come into the bitcoin space there is so much to do It is such a young ecosystem. It is such a young industry that needs all this talent and all the best and brightest in order to succeed. It cannot be a mediocre company. It will just not have any excuse to survive. It will fail very quickly. okay but if you are a very smart person bright sophisticated good at what you do even if you're in a niche you'll find your place in the bitcoin industry it may be harder because there is not much money at the moment in um in bitcoin startups there is not much right if i compare that to the startups even to the crypto space right crypto companies get so much more funding than bitcoin

companies it's ridiculous because we both you and i know like who's going to build better product or the more you know the more valuable product but it's we're still early days and that and people still don't get it like the big money is still not getting it fully and so it takes more time for the big money to come into the tech ecosystem and the tech industry but it will happen and i think it's starting to happen and so that's why i tell like good friends around me that come from the tech industry start building your own startup or start thinking about integrating into an existing bitcoin startup because you're gonna do really well because this is going to be this is a game changer um yeah so i'm very hopeful and i love the i love thinking about what the bitcoin

ecosystem tech ecosystem would look like in the next few years not just life not just you know war and peace but also innovation and entrepreneurship i think that will flourish under a bitcoin standard yeah and it's uh it's so interesting for me because when when you think about someone who wants to invest in a bitcoin only startup he has to be a bitcoiner like there's probably no way around that um and he as a bitcoiner he has holds probably a lot of his wealth in bitcoin and bitcoin itself is quite a rising star so you have to have an incentive to bring on an extra headache because investing in a startup is not just like yeah put my money there you you have to care for that startup a little bit at most uh early investors startup

investors are active and not just like yeah they are involved so this uh keeps up the hurdle rate extremely which also brings up the quality of those startups if a bitcoin startup survives for a few years this says way more than when a crypto or fiat startup survives for a few years because it's way harder to survive in the bitcoin landscape which uh improves the overall quality and that's that's something uh amazing to witness uh one question uh because you mentioned uh your podcast and i think this is always like learning from other bitcoiners learning from other people in general is is such an uh great honor to have and you already have so many great podcasts um what is uh what would you say is your biggest learning or your like the one takeaway that you

have now from this i don't know what was 40 episodes something around that almost 40 episodes what was your like the biggest takeaway uh that you had from that i had a thousand takeaways it's like almost after every episode my mind is like blowing with like damn you know how in the matrix they plug it in they plug neo in in order to to learn new things i know jiu-jitsu it's like that Like when I finish when I finish an episode, it's like, damn, I just learned all that stuff about whatever, you know, investments or. Yeah. So, you know, one of the I'll just say a few because it's hard for me to pinpoint one big takeaway. Right. So when I did the episode with Mark Moss, I think I understood how you can be. and this is like it's funny because it's not related to like money or bitcoin but it's related

to like life i i understood how you can be really successful entrepreneur and small business on your own and keep your modesty and being a real human being and i mean mark for me is such a an inspiration an example of someone that is constantly like teaching people and giving them from his knowledge and his expertise and very generous and still stays with like both feet on the ground very very humble very like eye level like you can start a conversation with him and straight away feel like any question you would ask would be a good question or the right question to ask like you'd feel very at home with who you are around him and many of my guests had that trait like larry lapard for example you speak to him like you ask a question he validates you

straight away like you get the right like like you ask the question he goes right right i yeah i have the same question. Then he starts answering you. So it's like when you speak to people that you find that they are so humble and good to you, no matter what your level of understanding he is, or no matter what, where you come from, what your background is, where you're from, who you are, they're just simply kind, welcome and welcoming and nice. You just realize that you know good and kindness exists in the world and not all successful people have to be you know this snobbish um really condescending superior people and I think that that's one thing that really is important for me in life in general that people stay humble because

I think that one of the core reasons for the hardship and the conflicts and you know the suffering the pain and the wars that we see in the world is a superiority is the fact that we think that we are better than other people and that we are superior in one way or another and that we don't see the unity we don't see how we are all the same really yes one has more knowledge than another one has more expertise in something than another but in the end of the day we're all human beings we have the same characteristics we have the same dna we have the same you know we have a lot of potential some of us discover that potential more than others but we are all humans and we can all benefit from each other if we learn how to be kinder and be better to each other and

ourselves. And in some surprising, bizarre way, I feel like the Bitcoin industry has a larger concentration of those characteristics than other groups in the society. And so it makes me very happy and very hopeful and very motivated to keep doing what I'm doing and to by then inspire other people to do what they want to do as well because i show them that you can you know be smart and successful and um and maybe you know funny and wise and still keep a very open mind and kind heart and open heart and so mark moss was one that gave me that and larry as i said peter st Renanj and, you know, Eva, so many of my of my guests, obviously, Jeff Booth and even Michael Saylor when, you know, you interviewed him as well. And when I interviewed him, like the first question I asked him, he answered me in such a graceful manner with with an analogy straight away.

But the way he answered, just his energy and communication, if you take a look at that episode, you'll see that that's the first question I ask him. And he answers in such a theatrical way as if he actually cares and invests in how he is delivering the message, not just the message itself. Because you and I both know that Michael had been interviewed hundreds of times by hundreds of people. and oftentimes he is being asked the same questions again and again and again right because you know as much as we are talented we still come up with similar questions because we want to know similar things and the fact that he is able to kind of recruit himself again and again and again and bring out that enthusiasm and excitement and you know dynamism in the way that he answers that makes all the difference that it shows that he really cares it shows that he's

really having fun and and that i don't take that for granted so you know i i think you know so i think in the end of in the end of this long speech i did give you just one thing which is like people's kindness in communication and people's gracefulness in being with another person That really teaches me more humbleness, more modesty, and gives me inspiration to be who I am and to continue giving to other people. That is comes. I think Jeff Booth said that Bitcoin is an ego killer. I think he also has less ego death capital. And it's such an amazing way to look at it because you get humbled along the way so many times.

Or you try to fix Bitcoin, you invest in some shit coin. And then all of a sudden, oh, that was not better than Bitcoin. And there are so many small avenues where you go through and then, oh, yeah, Bitcoin humbles me again. So, yeah, it's great to have those things. And I think also the Bitcoin community itself, like I came as a stock pro and crypto pro into the Bitcoin Twitter realm. And Bitcoin Twitter made me do a Bitcoin maxi. Like Twitter humbled me. i just got so much feedback from my tweets and you can look back like the last two two and a half

like five years or something like that all my tweets are public i never deleted anything so you can actually look through my history of of getting from a stock pro to a bitcoin maxi which is fascinating i also had some small shitcoin thing there but that's actually not that public on on on twitter because i kept it to myself for the most part because bitcoin twitter was like really pushing uh and yeah not only bitcoin itself but also bitcoin community i feel like is is very cool and very um humbling uh to begin with um i have seen one thing in i always i'm curious what people write in their own bios and how they describe their things and you have two things uh written in in the in the bio that uh is not directly related to the bitcoin and i

want to ask you what are the connections there and what's the importance for you there the first thing is health you you you put the word health in there what's the connection for you from bitcoin and health and do you think like a sound monetary system is also then incentivizing a sound body a sound spirit and a sound health in general right i don't remember the exact wording i used there on the bio related to health what did i write i think i think uh on your podcast link tree that's just like health written like there's like money that's right now i get it it's written as one of my topics yeah so when i when i introduce my podcast i say my podcast is called you're the voice and it's not just a bitcoin podcast it's a podcast about health and politics and the changes

that the world is going through, digitalization, mind control, health, climate. I cover many, many topics and obviously money and Bitcoin. And I cover a lot more money and Bitcoin lately since I'm deeper into it. But health is a super important topic for me. First of all, because I started my awakening process, spiritual and informative awakening process during COVID in 2020, I think, 2020, 2021, where I experienced personally a very hard time because I chose not to participate in the genetic experiment that was running around the world. And actually, it was more than a genetic experiment. It was a social experiment and the psychological experiment on the world, on the world society that people

don't really understand. And they still think that COVID was a health event and it was not a health event. In fact, there was no pandemic. If you look at the numbers and you are a critical thinker and you go and you check things rather than trusting an expert, you go and you validate yourself. And that's what I've done during COVID. I became like a health fanatic in a way because I I went to do my own research on health and to understand what is this mayhem and why do they want me to do things to my body that I may not want to do, not for myself and not for my son. And I decided not to participate in this experiment. And this was one of the best decisions of my life, but not just because of a health perspective, but because it helped me

wake up to a lot of the lies. I wouldn't be in Bitcoin if it wasn't for health, right? So my way, my rabbit hole into Bitcoin started with COVID, started with health, starting to see the broken incentive structure, the way that doctors are behaving because of the incentive structures that they have towards the government, towards the Ministry of Health, towards the World health organization like all this structure of politics that is built around our health that is trickling down and impacting our individual lives in such a sophisticated way and the thing that helped me wake up to it was my experience as being a marketeer just seeing the marketing campaign that started taking place during covid on how they are brainwashing people's

minds into believing that first of all that there is the end of the world pandemic and then that the vaccinations are the best solutions out of it right again the problem reaction solution and seeing a propaganda forming so that like I started investigating and so a lot of my early interviews on my podcast are related to health and are with doctors and researchers and and people that are heavily involved into the COVID period and still are doing a lot in order to experience, sorry, in order to expose the lies of the COVID era. And at one point when the government and the state

came so hard and violated my bodily autonomy and my rights over my health and my body, i then understood that the next thing they're going to do is to violate in the same way my property rights and my rights over my money and what's mine and so i decided to start learning about money and that's how i i didn't transition but i just added to my portfolio the topic of money and economies and financials and bitcoin and i mean bitcoin was the solution that i found down the track. But I started with investigating money out of investigating health. And so I continue to talk about health because I believe, I mean, my big thing in my podcast is sovereignty

and how to push people to discover sovereignty in their lives, whether it would be in their health or in their financials or in their nutrition or in their environment with the climate and everything like just finding sovereignty everywhere so you can become a sovereign human being and reclaim the power that you have given away to different entities like reclaim that and take ownership and responsibility over your your life and so with health we have completely given away our decision-making processes and our um our judgment to other people whether it's doctors or the state to decide things for us and so i push people to reclaim their sovereignty over their health just the same way i push people to or not push encourage people to reclaim their

sovereignty over their financials and and and be introduced into bitcoin so yeah health is super important i am a big advocate for natural health and i have completely stopped consuming any pharma product since 2020 not even paracetamol not even advil nothing like zero i started using etheric oils and natural oils and and mushrooms so both psilocybin mushrooms for microdosing and um and mushrooms without psilocybin just as a nutritional um additive so different types of mushrooms that are just amazing for different things um vitamins vitamin c in its raw form uh vitamin d like so i'm i'm very much into natural health um and and it's not something that i do i just consume it i learn it i read a lot about it i treat myself and my family if

they allow me or or my my son uh in this way and i think that that's amazing because um yeah i've you know just this is for your female listeners i don't know how many you have but for example birth control like that's something we're all conditioned to think that it's so normal and okay to just take and I've been I've been taking birth control pills for like 20 years and my body completely forgot the female cycle how to create that cycle the menstrual cycle on its own and so when I got off those pills my body was like all over the place it didn't know how to do it on its own because it was so relying on external hormones to do it for it. So I had to work in like re-educating my body on how to create that menstrual cycle again. So I did that using

mushrooms and I managed to succeed, but it's not easy to teach your body again, to walk on its own, like to reclaim that sovereignty so yeah so i think you know that's that's what i care about i care about people um taking sovereignty back to their own hands whether it's health or financials or any other topic that's that's amazing it's also um i just look it up uh because i'm curious like it's it's slowly slowly uh creeping up my female listeners quote i think it was like when i started like uh i think the first time i looked at the statistics was like four months ago then it was like three percent or something like that that's it that that was really low and now it's like seven eight percent so it's slowly slowly getting better so you know

robin the more female guests you'll bring the more female audience you'll have because a lot of the a lot of my my my audience is almost 50 50 it's like around yeah 40 40 60 i think just because i am a woman and because you know women can identify with women more easily just like men can identify with men more easily and so it's like a natural thing there is no magic in it and so i think that the more and since i talk about a lot about like manly topics like money than i do have a lot of male audiences relatively speaking i believe that if i wouldn't speak about money i'd have a lot more females than males listening to my podcast but i think that now you know my audience will be exposed to your podcast when i share it and a lot of my female audiences

will go okay i want to learn more about money i want to learn more about bitcoin this guy is producing and for my female audience if you don't know robin is producing like mega quantities of content and interviews how many it's like one a day or what what is it yeah it's it's one a day and i think 215 or 20 now yeah there you go so it's like my my female audience would go okay if i want to go deeper this is a good source for me and so i i can definitely use robin and so So I think that the only thing we have to cross is the first hurdle when you intuitively are drawn to someone because of their sex or because of the way they look or because something else that draws you in, their energy or whatever. But once you're in and you cross that hurdle, you discover that a certain topic interests you or a certain person interests you or whatever. I know so many of my audiences have been thanking me and like writing to me in person to tell me, thank you for introducing all these interesting people to them that they can then go and continue learning from later.

So that's like a, to me, this is an awesome contribution that I can then help them continue their journey, their learning process with other people. that's great because i don't have all the answers and i i'm not you know i i'm just like one source you want to when you want to learn you want to you want to do it from various people and so i think yeah it's great if you bring more women and i think in the bitcoin space there are so many talented women that are not getting center stage but not because people don't want to invite them But because of the nature of women, that they're a little bit more shy and they don't push themselves and so they may be less seen and they don't position themselves as experts in something. there is a like an innate an innate like a natural sense of uh modesty it's not humbleness it's modesty in women because they oftentimes don't think that they're worth right it's like

self-worth thing with women so they don't even imagine they it doesn't even cross their minds to write something in their bio that would make people approach them to ask them to be interviewed or come to speak at an event, right? They will just like write something that will be very vague or, you know, their tweets will be about things that are happening out there and not necessarily their own opinion or something that they want to push. So women are generally less good at promoting themselves i see men can i can i can i share something funny with you about that please you know when i interviewed sailor i thought that what would happen after this interview is that i'd get like shit loads of male followers that love sailor right and i did get a slight

increase in follower base it was nice like i did get more followers especially on youtube it was nice a lot of them criticized me whatever like male love to criticize they were like why is she nodding all the time or stop talking when he's you know i hardly spoke at this interview i was so quiet whatever so i got a lot of criticism i got some male audiences new male audiences But the one thing I got the most was males, guys, approaching me to ask me to interview them after the sailor interview. And that was in a totally different proportion or ratio to what I have received before. So I have the podcast even before. And I was, you know, interviewing like really cool people like Samson and Jeff and, you know, and Eric Case and whatever.

like a lot of good people but after sailor it's like all these guys lining up knocking on my door can you interview me as well can you interview me as well can you interview me as well it's like almost every day and i'm like what happened guys like you saw that i interviewed sailor and now i'm like interesting enough to interview you like you want to be on the same platform where sailor was what is it and the funny thing was which is which is legitimate it's fine it's good that they're doing it but not even one woman approached me to ask the same thing they could have I know many women in this space they did not approach me only the guys approached me why are they shy do they not think that they're worthy do they not want to promote themselves what is it so you know it's an

interesting statistic, I think, to realize how much more courage and confidence men have to go out there and put themselves out there and say, hey, I'm interesting enough. Can you put my voice out there? I want my voice to be out there. But women would not do it, not in the same proportion. So, yeah, so I encourage all women to approach all podcasters and tell them that you want to be interviewed it's fine you can do it that's so interesting i never looked at that but i can 100 confirm that because um i'm uh i'm taking often people on that have no following at all like i have uh even i had one guy on he just wrote me a lot of really interesting youtube comments like really that long and i just like invited him and then

he was on the podcast because I found his replies were really meaningful and deep and long and really cool. So I have a lot of, let's call them no names, like not popular names on my show. So now it gets more and more known that I do that. And now I get a lot of people that have no following at all that just write me randomly. Hey, I have this amazing story. Can I be interviews like i get this almost on a daily basis now i get on on a weekly basis i would say and i never realized there was not one woman doing that and i get it so there you go there you go and and obviously after sailor the the rate was increased of that i can also attest to that but yeah it's it's like it's funny like a a man can can say like oh sailor was interviewed on

that i have no following i did not write a book i did not write a single article on bitcoin like there's people out there that have not written one single piece of on bitcoin and and then like hey i i saw the sale interview i also want to be interviewed and it's fine for me like i for example one guy approached me and it will be published soon and i he said like hey i'm this teacher i want to share this story and i was like really cool i would like to do it but i need to have something and then he went on i created a youtube channel and made a youtube video over one hour long talking about bitcoin and i watched the video and i was like oh that's really good like he just created four application for my podcast amazing that's amazing that's amazing

yeah so but yeah i can totally attest to that like and not one like every single uh woman that was on my show i approached and uh around probably 10 to 20 percent of the men that are on my show approach me like this is i think not a lot of people know that exactly even bigger ones like even ones with like 30 40 000 followers they're like hey i have a new book do you want to interview me exactly i get that from male females don't do that exactly so that's and and you know i've been teaching for the past nine years, I've been teaching people personal branding, how to build their own brand. And I still do it today. I do it mostly to organizations that invite me to teach their employees or their management or whatever. And the first thing I say when I start

teaching them is drop your humbleness or shyness or modesty. It is not the time for it. I mean, it's okay that you continue to be humble in your life, but when you want to build a brand, when you want to be known for something, when you want people to approach you with suggestions, with opportunities, with business opportunities, with personal opportunities, how the fuck would people know what you want in life. If you don't put yourself out there, they are not reading your mind. They are not in your head. They do not know what your life looks like. We are so self-centered that we think that the world knows stuff about us. People know nothing. People are so egocentric. They just care about themselves and they focus on themselves and they don't really bother to

get interested in other people's lives unless it's really close friends or family so most people don't know if you want them to know something about you if you want to promote something if you want to get a new job offer if you want a new project if you want a collaboration if you want your if you want more followers you want more people to know who you are and what you do you have to do work the work is to first build your identity as a brand your your brand identity and then to start creating content and put it out there if you don't put it out there no one will know and the way to put it out there is diverse there are so many ways that you can do that and one of the ways is yeah go on podcasts you know write a book write an article there's so many

things you can do today. This is like endless. Do a little meetup, whatever, but start building yourself. And if you don't do the work, no one will know. And then you'll sit there and you'll go, why these things that I want to achieve in life? Why is this not happening? Like, why isn't the world bringing me what I want to have happened? You have to take action. You have to be active about it. You have to start putting yourself out there. There is no room for modesty when you want to promote your brand so women wake up and and it's so um it it's not it's not easy i would say but there's like a clear pathway and you just have to do the work for that and it's really also like just saying yes to all opportunities like i was uh i get also a little bit more invited now to

other podcasts i never asked another podcaster to be on on his show uh because uh yeah never crossed my mind that i actually do that uh but i have been on some other podcasters who approach me but those podcasters are very small like some like some actually like i think three of them started their podcast with me like i was their first episode um and i have this thing where i just say yes to everything like i just like say yes to opportunities uh even though in the end of the day it might turn out to be a waste of time but i think there is no such a thing of waste like it's just like oh yeah i spent their time but i could have invested other things but maybe that would have led to something way bigger led to something amazing so like i just try to say yes

to almost everything uh that i can do um which also now filling up my calendar quite a lot well but that's a that's a luxury problem to have um and just like saying yes to opportunities and i say that because um when i approach women to be on my podcast i get way more often asked like oh why me i i think not as seriously yeah like wow i was like why because i approach uh people also that have not a big following so like people that have a big following don't question why you want me on a podcast like that because they have been on so many other podcasts it's natural but but i have uh people on the podcast there is like you know their first podcast or a second podcast or the fifth podcast uh and and then they see like oh they see my channel and like the first thing

that pops up is sailor and then they see like jeff booth and 10 000 views and 30 000 views and 50 on say that's like 150 or something like thousand views and then they are intimidated and they're like oh why me like why i am the chosen one and i'm like yeah because you wrote that one article that i saw and it was really interesting or you you made that one appearance there and i thought it was really interesting and i just wanted to talk with you and i want to record that like why like that's pretty obvious why so but i get that uh i don't know there's probably like one two guys that also said why me but it's very it's mostly women it's mostly women yeah and that's that's yeah now think this we're talking about podcasts now take it one step further and think

about public speaking that's even harder right podcasting is even easier when you when you say to a woman go stand on a stage and speak or be on a panel or approach this event organizer and pitch yourself to speak about something or they would go like what you're crazy like me what do i know who am i blah blah blah and the men would just go bring it on yes where do i sign up most men obviously we're generalizing but yeah it's like convincing women to pitch themselves to speak at events is hard they are very scared yeah i think uh i have 100 that that minds a bit like just for example if a bitcoin conference asked me today hey can you be tomorrow at the stage for like 2 000 people and i'm like yes i have no clue what i'm talking about but you ask

me and i will do it because it's a massive opportunity i will just not sleep till tomorrow figure out what i'm talking about put some slides on there and and will do my best job possible uh yeah but i think when it comes to the stage also like more more males will be more uh frightened but i think yeah that's it's a channel thing uh where where i see it also in in the podcast thing but yeah and oftentimes women wait to be invited uh instead of taking the initiative and pitching themselves so yeah and and i understand that as a like it's a natural thing but you as i said it's like you need to go one step back and think about your goals your business goals your personal goals your goals in life, where do you want to reach? And if a certain platform will promote that goal

for you, then you have to, you have to take it. You have to do things. You have to take action and being on a stage, being in a podcast, writing something, I don't know, collaborating with someone. These are the ways to do it. So you gotta, women have to start thinking more in that very goal oriented way in order to progress in life and yeah i just realized that we're already recording for almost one hour 20 minutes oh my god it was like this was like really quickly i had one topic in my mind that i really wanted to cover but i think we will leave it for maybe another time because cbdc is also really interesting and you made a presentation about that but we already had so many interesting topics and we have an end routine with two

questions the one question is always the same question for every guest what can we learn from you besides all the things that we already talked about in the episode spirituality so i am yeah i I love understanding the human from other angles. My natural draw to marketing was because of the understanding of the human psyche and the way we think and the way we make decisions. And in marketing, I had this amazing combination of psychology and consumerism and business. And it's like in that crossroad of so many topics, like interdisciplinary area. and one of the things that I started being exposed to learning more practicing training in my life

in my daily life since like since I think 10 years ago but it was very very slow in the first six years and the last four years it was accelerating is my spiritual path and my spiritual awakening. And by exposing myself more to spiritual teachers and trainers and mentors and books and various ways, I have another angle or another lens to look at the human, to look at myself, to understand myself better. And I'm not a religious person. I respect religions. I respect people who who have faith and religion I think that faith is is an amazing thing because you actually get to expand your senses more than the five senses that we know you actually learn to trust in something or put your trust in something that you cannot see or hear or feel actually you

can feel that's the only thing you can you can feel it because it's energy and so when you start developing trust in yourself or in a higher self or in a higher source and you start connecting back to who you are there is a whole world that opens up and you then understand that our that i'll speak for myself my goal in life my purpose is to clean and clear as much as as as i can of my shit that is out there my dialogues my limiting beliefs etc and reconnect back to my very um primal gift signature uh essence purpose who i am why i came here what i came here to do what are my traits my uniqueness that i can reconnect to as a child we have that very naturally like children you see children they're like these bubbly creatures that is very

easy to determine what they're all about what their strong strong suits are their characteristics the things that you know that stand out their signature what is their signature because they're so connected to themselves there's no bullshit you know there's no there are no layers of complication of um trauma and and conditioning that have been created through the years for them they're very clean and so from round about like the age of 7 to 14 this starts changing and then from 14 onwards it starts changing even more and we start accumulating all these um all these behavioral conditioning and and these meanings and interpretations that we give to life and to ourselves and we start a process of distancing ourselves from ourselves we're like

separating the self from from life and so i'm in the inverse process now of like reconnecting back and coming closer in touch with myself and reconnecting to that child and understanding again my signature and who i am and uniqueness and i'm not trying to invent anything new i'm simply deciphering it's like in crypto right and cryptography i'm like deciphering my code again like reverse engineering back to the source to who i am to my signature and so spirituality really helps me in that and so in my podcast as well i interview some people that are on the spiritual path and i also go on a lot of podcasts that are about spirituality and um and i love talking about that i love like investigating that and it really helps me um do the work and

and keep like a good mental stability and spiritual stability and um and and create resilience in my life so yeah so i that spirituality is is an aspect that most people are not familiar with i i love that question uh so much that i now give it every end of the podcast because it gives just something completely new and the reason why i asked that question always is um because we mostly talk about bitcoin i mean we talked about uh wars we talked about female versus male things we talked about social media also like a lot of different topics but it gives the stage to learning something different from bitcoiners and i think bitcoiners are such unique people that we can learn way more than just money from each other a hundred percent and my my

next episode is going to be all about spiritual awakening so the people that are interested in that topic yeah jump over and take a look it's gonna be it's for dummies it's like awakening for dummies i love that a lot i will definitely check it out um perfect and let's come to the end routine where the previous guest is asking a question for the next guest without knowing who the next guest actually is and yours is a really really interesting one uh who's the last guest the last guest was scott's uh sibley okay he uh is said six years and he writes kids books and makes the charmery i don't know maybe you heard about charmery uh the the games where you uh play like a memory game for kids but like in a bitcoin way it's really it's really cool and really nice uh

that game yeah and check it out suiting to that uh theme of his and uh him the question from him is if you could teach a kid one thing about bitcoin what would it be i actually just did that two days ago with my niece and the first thing i taught her is inflation i taught her how money works how how fiat system works and she got it straight away she understood so that's the one thing i would teach kids i would teach them how money is being created because then they get bitcoin really quickly it is also interesting because people ask me and and it's funny how disconnects because people ask me oh how do you orange bill and i'm like i asked first before i start any questioning i asked first like oh what do you think about inflation because depending on

what the answer to that question is i know where to start and if he's like oh yeah inflation is is good it's we need uh inflation but it should not be too high then i know oh i have to start way before bitcoin and the first like five hours is not about bitcoin it's about the financial system so it's inflation is the the start that i i love the the point yeah perfect before i let you go um where can people find you ask you questions uh and find your podcast also so i'm actually as a marketeer i'm on every social media platform so you can find me everywhere by just by typing my name including of course nostre and i'm trying to build my my nostre follower base i've crossed the 1k threshold

so like more than 1000 followers which is very cool on Oster I'm on Twitter that's where I have the biggest follower of like almost 100,000 people I'm on Telegram, I have channels channel in Hebrew and in English and

I have a sub stack blog that you can find me it's called You're the Voice and my name and um and my podcast which is you're the voice uh you can find the links to it on my link tree which is on on any social media channel so yeah follow me there perfect and thank you so much for taking the time also for thank you for everyone watching and listening uh to us today as always i'll be back tomorrow with another episode bye-bye thank you wow We'll see you next time.