You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Ep. 41: Decentralized Communication: Nostr, Bitcoin & Attack on Telegram [Hearts of Oak Podcast]

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

🎙️ This is a guest episode - Peter McIlvenna interviewed me on his “Hearts of Oak” podcast, and I am sharing it with you on “You’re The Voice”.  Peter wrote: “Efrat Fenigson, a marketing expert and Bitcoin maximalist, shares insights from her encounter with Michael Saylor at a Bitcoin conference, discussing the risks of advocating for cryptocurrency amid economic instability. She addresses rising threats to free speech and government control over digital platforms, highlighting decentralized solutions like Nostr that preserve user data and social connections. Efrat advocates for financial sovereignty through Bitcoin and micropayments, linking these innovations to broader themes of freedom and personal rights, while also reflecting on Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s support for Bitcoin as a pivotal stance in today's socio-political climate.” ► If you got value, please like, comment, share, follow and support my work. Thank you! -- SPONSORS – ►► Get your TREZOR wallet & accessories, with a 5% discount, using my code at checkout (get my discount code from the episode - yep, you’ll have to watch it): https://affil.trezor.io/SHUn  -- LINKS – Connect with Hearts of Oak: 𝕏                          x.com/HeartsofOakUK WEBSITE            heartsofoak.org/ SHOP                  heartsofoak.org/shop/⁩ Efrat's Twitter: https://twitter.com/efenigson Efrat's Telegram: https://t.me/efenigson Watch/listen on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/yourethevoice Support Efrat's work: ⁠https://www.buymeacoffee.com/efenigson⁠ Support Efrat with Bitcoin: https://geyser.fund/project/efenigson

and hello hearts of oak i'm delighted to have a brand new guest join me today a name that i've seen on my twitter timeline for years and that's effort phoenix and effort thank you so much for your time today thanks for having me peter it's great being with you did i get your surname correct phoenix yeah phoenix and there you go there you go he never knows i should have asked that before but anyway it great to have you and obviously um the hashtag the the the handles are there to follow on twitter and i know you're um also very big on instagram uh make sure and follow and watch your voice i'm very big you know yes it was true so but but i stick to twitter um i i stay away from instagram it's not my bag so i stay away but they're marketing expert freedom and

bitcoin maximalist um actually it was i watched the whole interview when this one i most there's always one you're jealous about when you have someone on and it's michael saylor that was the one i would i was literally um working yesterday at a coffee shop going to meet someone and actually i saw the micro astrology building was there next door yeah as i was that is amazing but he's but Yeah, I mean, that's, you're obviously, we're at that event, you had him, I don't know where you've interviewed him before, but it's always, when you're delving into an area, to actually interview someone who understands it to the nth degree, and lives it, and puts his money where his mouth is, those things normally don't come together. Yeah, for sure, the experience with

him was unreal it was in prague a few months ago where he gave me an hour of his time and i felt so privileged because i am relatively new to the bitcoin space i've been learning researching i'm a humble student for about two two and a half years and a lot of my studying was thanks to him and his work because of how much content he puts out there how much time he invests in actually educating people so for me it was like closing a loop sitting with him and chatting with him and being able to ask him questions not just about the nature of this technology and monetary asset but also about his view on why he puts his you know just like he said he puts his money where his mouth is and he actually not just personally invests in this asset like in most of his wealth

but also well i don't know if it's most of his wealth but a lot of his wealth um but also his company you know and this is not like a a three four five year startup this is like a 30 how old is it 30 40 years old like it's it's a it's a solid company public company that has a lot of shareholders that are holding the stock and relying on him and his work to actually perform So this guy is risking a lot by doing what he's doing. He's actually the first CEO to hold his company's reserve in Bitcoin rather than dollars, rather than fiat. He converted all of the reserves of the company to Bitcoin, more than 200,000 Bitcoin, which is an astonishing amount of money. and so his investors his shareholders are relying not only on the performance of his company but also on the performance of this monetary asset so that's like a double down risk or reward depending how much you learn about it and know about it and so that was fascinating for me also talking to him

a little bit about real estate versus bitcoin um so you know and i have taken a lot of actions in my life as a result of learning about money about the fiat system and then learning about bitcoin i changed many things because of how skeptical and suspicious i was after covid with everything I had to go through and I didn't, I want to prepare myself as best as possible for what's coming ahead. And we all know that like economical hardship and financial hardship is coming to almost every country in the world, especially Western countries that are used to having it so comfortable and convenient. And now we're, we're facing the results of the, um, of the excessive money printing of central banks during COVID. So, you know, that's what had me in the beginning to

start learning about money and about finance and Bitcoin. I was never in that space. But once I learned and once I understood how the system works, like that matrix, how it works, there was no way back because now that I understand how it works, I also know what to do with my wealth, with my hard-earned savings from the 20 years that i've worked you know so hard for that money and and trying to try to save for my son and everything no i encourage everyone to watch that interview 32 michael zeller it is fantastic and you'll delve into the whole world of michael of micro strategy and what he did the company phenomenal story um and also he's a i think aerospace best background as is mine so that's also something i'm really interested in but you're the voice is

brought to you by treasure the original bitcoin hardware wallet company pioneering the development of self-custody for crypto assets since 2013 empowering individuals with an open source device enabling beginners and experts to easily and securely hold their coins i find my treasure super easy to use and recommend it to my friends and family enjoy my five percent discount on treasure product by clicking the link in the show notes and using the code flat there you're obviously allergic to tyranny was one of the taglines in your twitter x feed and you were at the center of that tyranny uh there in israel probably aussies faced it as much and yeah she studying this really but that's a whole other area but we've seen the arrest of pavel duroff

um by french authorities and this is part of the attack globally on the ability to communicate free speech and obviously on global surveillance i think those are probably the two biggest threats that we face right and the attacks on both of those but what were your thoughts because you think well you know they're going to go for someone like this but he's living dubai he's away from it and then he gets rest and i think oh shit it's happened right what were your thoughts right we're we're experiencing an acceleration and an intensive intensification of events and and that is no coincidence and that is that shouldn't come as a surprise for those of us who have been paying attention to the trends and escalation in recent years in in global tyranny

This is all part of the plan. This is all part of the game. Obviously, I wasn't happy seeing what happened to Pavel, but I was also not surprised because the writings on the wall, the DSA, the Digital Services Act, all the different laws and regulations that are being passed in lockstep in every Western country around the world are all telling us what's coming. They are preparing the ground sometime in advance. Now, it's not a lot of time in advance because of the acceleration of things, but they are preparing the grounds and then they're doing it. They're telling us what they're going to do and then they're doing it. So none of us should be surprised. And I think that the fact that social media today is the town hall where people can actually be coordinated for various things, including for activism.

For political activism, for social activism, for for different regime change, you know, activities, et cetera, for for just dissident voices, the powers that be, they know that and they're going after the digital platforms, as they call it, or the social media platforms in, you know, in the hardest way that they can. And that follows law enforcement responses like you're seeing in the UK, like we've seen in Australia during COVID, like we've seen in, you know, and I think Australia was the first bubble during COVID where actually people posted stuff online and then they had a police officer knocking on their door, arresting them. right? That was like the bubble experiment in a way. They wanted to see how people take that. And, you know, there was resistance, but it wasn't big enough to justify not doing that again. And they continue doing that in other places and other means until they put in place all the different laws and regulations so that now you can see that being quite widespread in the UK. And obviously people are going crazy over it naturally but i don't know if this is a a harsh enough response from the public to justify the the the government stopping doing that because they're very smart

about how they bring it about they will create that problem they will create that crisis and then they'll get people to voice their opinions and their views. And then they'll go, oh, but this is outside of the sandbox. You're not supposed to be saying that. This is incitement. This is against something. Exactly like they've done in Israel now with the war, right? They put the war in place and then people that speak against the government or even come out with a slight suspicion that what has happened on October 7th or in other events throughout the war are horrendous or maybe treason or maybe, you know, they're suspicious of treason or what's happening here. Was there a stand down order? All these valid questions that people would ask

are all of a sudden not allowed to be asked. And all these draconian measures will be put in place in order to stop you from even saying that or from holding any information on your devices that is hinting for any such direction. And so these emergency laws are well in place in Israel now, thanks to the war. But in every country, they will find the excuse to put it in place. So in Israel, it's the war.

In UK, it's the immigration crisis. In other countries, you know, COVID. In Australia... They will just find the right excuse, the right way in to put them in place, because if we remember that the end game is total control, then this is just a step in the way. So this is just a zoomed out perspective, right? And if we're zooming back into what just happened with the CEO of Telegram, Telegram was one of the last citadels not taken over by global powers, right? NATO countries or the CIA or whatever, the deep state in the US, etc. they've put in place the digital services act in europe last year and in other countries they have their own versions of it so that they can clamp down on exactly those people countries activists that they need to clamp down on whenever they need to and so it looks like that's simply being

executed at the moment that's what we're seeing now we can we can dive deeper into that because there were signs for that coming but i you know i i want to let you continue we can well yeah and you mentioned the digital service act of course that was kicked off sadly from the uk with their online safety bill and then america's got corsa and it shows actually that these governments are working together these things don't happen by chance or individually that exactly ireland has a draconian one in place right one of the first ones to put it in place despite of the fact that in the referendum most of the citizens said that they rejected they still went ahead and and did it because they don't give a fuck right okay so when you look at a a very interesting document

um from 2020 2023 it's a un document describing how they're basically going to be clamping down on digital platforms and why it's all under the guise of missing disinformation and hate speech but it's a 30 pages document that i've written about at the time and um i don't know if i can share a screen i can actually show some snippets of it can i um you may not um but what so um you can put a link what's it called well it's called um our common agenda policy brief eight information integrity on digital platforms and it's from june 2023 we'll put a link in the description so okay So we can put a link from the UN website and the UN has also accompanied that with a really cute clickbait style article called UN chief calls for new era of social media integrity in bid to stem misinformation. So the whole narrative, umbrella narrative for this is the fact that they are trying to, obviously for our safety and for the benefit of the people, to stop misinformation, disinformation and hate speech.

And this 30-page document, and I'll write about it on Substack again, is really taking step by step each one of the SDGs, the Sustainable Development Goals of Agenda 2030, and showing you why it is so dangerous for misinformation and disinformation to happen in each one of those areas of your life. and how the UN and all the governments around the world should comply with this new policy of stopping misinformation, disinformation and hate speech and how digital platforms, which are social media companies and other companies around the world, they focus, and this is a telling one,

they focus a lot on chat GPT, they focus on even on Uber, It's pretty crazy. And how those platforms should obviously comply with the new regulations in order to help them exercise this power, this newfound power. And one of the really amazing things that you see there is that they take as examples the climate agenda and they write how misinformation about climate is really like is going to be the big biggest risk, which gives us a hint to where they're going to bring their next crisis from. um as well as they're talking about chat gpt in length which for me is an ex-marketeer well i'm not an ex-marketeer i'm a marketeer in heart right like i've been doing marketing for 20 years but whenever i see something like that for me it's a sign that the next media platform that is going to be heavily controlled by governments and the powers that be is ai platforms like chat gpt and

others, right? They're going to take over. And then what's going to happen is when people think that they're asking ChatGPT questions and getting information, you know how today ChatGPT, everyone knows that it's still not real time and connected to what's going on in the world. It is going to be, it's just a matter of time. And when it will be real time and you'll ask ChatGPT questions and you'll get your answers, it will give you the truth, the official truth, just like the, um, the UN, um, sorry, the, yeah, the UN, uh, director of global communications. Her name is, um, I forget her name right now, but I wrote about her extensively. She says we own the truth and we need the world to know it um so and and we cooperate with google for example to you know fix

the search results of climate change so that's exactly the same thing that they're going to do for melissa fleming that's right so she she openly says you know we need to work with those platforms to fix their information their truth because we own the truth the truth is here we're going to tell you what to write and what not to write and so the same thing is going to come with AI and people are going to think that they're actually receiving some objective honest information with really they're going to continue receiving the same thwarted results of what the globalists or or governments want them to get and you know we've recently seen Mark Zuckerberg coming out saying uh you know i admit that i was collaborating with the governments because they told me to

and and i've i've i've censored information during covid and called it disinformation or misinformation when really i shouldn't have done that because in hindsight we we know that a lot of that information was true and so you know which means he won't do it again we can trust him now company effort come on he said sorry of course i always try suki of course now that's ridiculous right but that's just a that's just a very good signal for us to first of all to validate the work that we've been doing in in the past few years but also to show people that they cannot really trust those sources anymore and they have to be vigilant and and operate their discernment because that's not where the truth lies um yeah and i hope that people will will actually

look at that so you have your website it's just efrat so it's so so good you can just use your first name for your sub stack so yes efrat yeah efrat.substack.com yeah that's right and on my sub stack i i write and i you know i put my interviews as well but i'm i'm gonna put a an article i wrote exactly about this document and how they they've been telling us that that's what they're going to do for a while now now they're just doing that so do you want me to go back to to pavel for a second can i just throw something on that because uh the latest days and we're doing this thursday this goes out monday so a day before french authorities announced that he was going to be released on bail i think five five and a half million he has to stay within

France he has to report to a police station you've got that 20 years in jail is one of the figures being being thrown around and then Macron came I actually haven't seen that yet so they said 20 years in jail 20 years in jail was I've seen another 10 years in jail because the charges are horrendous drug trafficking child sex trafficking it's it's everything you'd hit some with and you realize there there are no goalposts anymore you know we kind of think well this is what you do we stay within that because this is what the law says no because they're using terrorism legislation in the UK to arrest people because it gives them extra power so it shows our governments around the world will use whatever they have to do and they're not

playing ball it's not we're long past the point of you know we need to be reasonable citizens that we're long past that point yeah that's what people need to understand that we're at the stage of uh violence it's it's a violent reaction they cannot censor in the old sense anymore i mean they can they can in some platforms the ones that are complying it's hard for them to censor on x to some extent x still shadow bands and still you know demonetizes and does things in order to comply a little bit and and you how you know they have this whole freedom of of speech not freedom of reach so they will some people are throttled etc so there is some um censorship on x um as opposed to what people actually think but it's obviously the best place

today as a big platform um you have places like noster which we can talk about later where you We don't have censorship at all, but those platforms that are completely non-censored are still small and it's going to take time until they grow. So when you want to get proper impact on people, you still go to the mainstream platforms and there it's hard to censor on X. It's easy to censor on everywhere else and that's what they do. But when they realize that people flock to X to continue their free speech, they have no other way but reserve to violence and then they'll start arresting. We're seeing that in the Bitcoin space already when they're clamping down on privacy.

So some CEOs or founders of some companies that are developing privacy oriented products are being arrested or are being, you know, trying to be closed down. Now, they know that they cannot close down Bitcoin itself, so they're going on the periphery of it and trying to close down companies or products that are enabling smoother or better experience of the platform itself. And that's the trajectory that we're going to see with social media and media in general. I think that we're going to see similar things happening with the actual content creators and journalists. So, you know, they will try to get to independent journalists or influencers or, you know, we've seen that happening already with some dissident voices. Um, and, and the fact that Julian Assange was released, but really was, um, still guilty as he was released, he was not like released and cleaned out. It was, yeah, you're released, but you're guilty of what you've done, which is your

journalism work. This is, this is a bad trajectory. And that's why Stella Assange was saying, if we don't get a pardon from the U S president or from whomever on this we we still are facing a very big risk for the freedom of journalism freedom of speech um is not safe and so they have to reserve reserve to more violent means arrests um actually taking down platforms or taking down people or you know so so yeah we're in a we're in a more intensified level of the game now and people have to take that into account when they communicate and when they create content in Israel for example there are certain things

that I am not talking about just because my rights even as a journalist in Israel with the proper you know stupid card of like a journalist card which I have are still are not protecting me anymore. There are things that they can do. They can go into my devices because of the emergency laws that they put in place in light of the war and look at my content. And if it's the wrong type of content, if it's related to Hamas and ISIS, and I have spoken about it in the wrong way, they can put me in jail. And they've done so with hundreds of people already in Israel. So I'm being careful. It's not that I don't speak about it, but I speak about it in a more sophisticated way or in certain places or whatever so people would have to be i think more careful going forward

and just take that into account take that into consideration in their speech in the uk it's even worse in the uk um obviously two of the most high profile journalists in the uk have been julian assange and we report outside the court even on the day was uh released and um it's amazing because while i would so disagree with julian assange on a number of issues actually he's a journalist he should have the right to speak but the other one on the other side of the spectrum was tommy robinson and he was actually in the same set he was they were in the same prison in belmarsh and i went to visit tommy and he was there sultry confinement and but whenever they arrested tommy last they arrest them under terrorism legislation because that gives them the right to access every

device you must answer every question you do not have rightly representation immediately they can do whatever they want and you realize wow they obviously said to him obviously you're not a terrorist but it means we can use this to access every device um and that's the power they have and it's they will use anything so that's kind of the goal yeah and oftentimes you got to remember that the people themselves may not be the issue here the issue is just taking someone and making them an example so that everyone else gets scared and deterred and try not to do that anymore or they've opened the door now whether it's an overtone window or whether it's a proper legislative door so that they can continue doing what they're doing um in terms of violating your

rights yeah it continues but i won't jump an oyster but just want to mention that uh it's interest sometimes we wonder the impact we have whether it's content creators whether it's just people online passing information or all of us in some way or um are really creating content and sharing information and uh macron french president actually gave a rare statement a couple of days ago saying that the arrest of pavel was uh was not a political matter and this was a judicial matter And you realize he obviously had huge pressure on him. And that pressure is coming from social media, is coming from, well, Elon Musk. And you kind of take your heroes at the moment where you find them, even though you disagree in so many areas.

So it was interesting that he was forced to release that statement. But you mentioned Noster, and I know zero about it. And I think you had posted, it was an article, I think, in Forbes. it might have been a few days ago headline and said telegram and youtube censorship show bitcoin and nostre are critical uh i read that thought i don't understand that i understand that bitcoin i turned i looked at it for the last four years so i'm kind of new also to the to that game um but it's a steep learning curve um and your interview with michael as he says hey you need to spend time looking at where actually you store your money instead of just looking at how you make

money. But Noster, do you want to kind of let us know what that is? Because it's so important to know what tools are available to us to actually spread truth and information. Yes, I do. I'm going to do that in a sec. I just want to loop back to what we talked before, just to mention that I recommend for anyone that wants to dive deeper into what's happening now with Pavel and and the clamp on free speech to just follow mike bentz i think he's one of the best resources to actually find your way in this web of manipulations and and chaos and you know and and complexities so yeah i i highly recommend i actually interviewed mike and uh for my podcast jealous now yeah and it's going to be up soon uh that episode so stay tuned okay i'm coming back

to your question about noster but no mike bend is absolute genius and 100 agree with you people need to be following him and understanding there are some key individuals in these different areas that you go to for information and mike bend is certainly one of those and i listened to most of his twitter spaces i think it was like an hour and a half yeah the guy is just a fucking wealth of information it's unbelievable and it's all based on his you know knowledge and experience it's not like he's a conspiracy theorist he look he tells you the way it works um and you also posted a very good article um this morning from revolver yeah you i read it u.s government funded censorship arm atlantic council targeted telegram just two months before door of arrest

highly recommend people to read that one it's also good okay i'm going back oh one last point about pavel and then we'll leave it people have to remember also that in april this year um a few months ago there were hackers that managed to break into a computer linked to israel's justice ministry and tens of thousands of classified files and sensitive emails were leaked to telegram and it was allegedly related to iran and israel was trying to censor that on telegram and it did not receive the cooperation that it wanted allegedly and so and israel also claims that that data was not that sensitive nor important they're like downplaying it but still that's another point that you want to remember about trying to censoring telegram and not being able

to do so uh mike is the one that is actually putting the spotlight on the fact that for many years telegram was like was like supported by by the cia in the u.s because it enabled riots in various countries which helped them to regime change um but today it's not really helping with the ukraine russia war and so that's another trajectory that we need to be aware of so yeah these are this is this is not just france doing this this all by himself macron doesn't do anything by himself this is other entities and government pressurizing and telling france what has to be done so yeah same in israel israel doesn't do anything on its own without u.s coordination so when people think that this war that we're seeing now is like just because of

israel palestine israel gaza you know dude just wake up and zoom out because this is way bigger than that that's what i've said right from the very first day of october 7th when i recorded my first videos this is way bigger than we're just simple pawns on the board yeah it's it's horrible what's going on but it's just uh it's just the trigger it's not the actual cause okay all right all right sorry i i don't know what we could do we could do hours on telegram and it is so important but i do want to have your thoughts on nostrils i don't understand so i'm here sitting listening to you as an audience wanting to understand what it is right Right. So Noster is actually, let's start with the fact that this is a protocol and not an app.

Like people think, you know, I'm comparing this to X or I'm comparing this to other social media platforms. You think it's a platform. It's not a platform. It's a protocol like TCP IP, like a protocol that runs the Internet. It's another protocol that was built by open source developers and it is an open source protocol. So everyone can go in and look at the code and participate in the coding project of NOSTR. And NOSTR is abbreviation. It stands for Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays. That's like a geeky kind of name. And what it means is that you have data, whatever your data is, media, files, videos, photos,

texts, and you want to transfer them between one node to another, you use relays, which are like servers, basically, fancy word for saying servers, to transmit those nodes and other stuff between users in the network, and this is a decentralized network, meaning that you have a lot of relays this is not a centralized place like you'd have x or twitter which is one company with one ceo with one set of data servers and you know server farms etc that will hold all that data and you'll be able to work inside the universe of twitter which is highly centralized by one person and those data banks are in a country that has laws so let's just point that that's the danger so exactly so any platform that you go on today

is subject to censorship and to rules and regulations of a certain jurisdiction just by means of where the legal entity lies and noster has no legal entity noster is a protocol just like you'd ask okay where where does the internet who is the internet ceo where are the offices and where where can i go and knock on the door and find a neck to choke and say hey take that internet down that bad internet we want to take it down it's doing the wrong thing by us because if they if they could they would have done that 10 million times already right but unfortunately even if the internet was a project of darpa or whomever right in the u.s back in the 60s 70s it's out of their control because it's a decentralized protocol that has millions of

servers around the world that are running um the the trans and running and transmitting data over that network which is called the internet so you cannot take it down you can take it down in one country you can ban certain services you can filter there there are ways around it people already know you know Chinese people know it very well they are banned from using the internet for certain things but then they use VPNs and then you have France people cannot access rumble and they know what to do you know this is you cannot stop the internet so in such a way when you take a decentralized platform like Noster that is built with thousands of relays and people actually hold the power to how they transfer data around this protocol, then this cannot be shut down. There is

no Noster office, a Noster CEO that you can knock on the door and say, hey, close this. You're not in the sandbox of the allowed speech now. So that's one thing, the fact that it's decentralized. Secondly, it's the fact that Noster has no one neck to choke, has no jurisdiction. You cannot send a letter somewhere and say, hey, you're not working according to the rules and regulations. Then no one can delete your posts. There is no censorship. Like whatever you put out there is up there.

That's one of the things that I had to grapple with at the beginning. Like everything I put up there is up there. like i cannot delete it i cannot edit it yes this is like a time machine like everything you put out there is out there um and because it's a protocol it has the ability to offer you as a programmer as a developer the ability to develop whatever type of client or app that you want on top of that protocol so you find hundreds sorry today is dozens not hundreds yet but it will be hundreds of apps and different applications, different platforms that are built on top of the Noster protocol that you can access your Noster network through those apps. So today I use three different

apps because I like different features. Each app is doing different things. One app will be focused more on music or podcasting. One app will be focused more on social media like Twitter. It has like a very similar Twitter sense. Another app that is coming is called Atlantis, for example, is going to be amazing. It's a prototype for holding travel and community information. But here's the thing. Here's the special and interesting thing that you cannot find anywhere else in the world today in terms of technological innovation, and it exists on Nostr, the fact that you as a user are holding your social graph, what does that mean? If I start working on one of those apps, right, and developing, and I put content out there and I

engage with people, I start developing a follower base, right? People start following me. Before I know it, I have a thousand followers or 10,000 followers. When I decide now that I want to take my data and move to another platform, move to another application, I own the data. Unlike any other platform today, I own the data, not Meta, not X, not Telegram, not anyone. They own the data. That's why they can be closed down because the data is on their servers and the regulators can come and say, we want that data. We want you to censor that data, but I own the data on Nostr. So I can take my social graph and I can go to another platform. I plug in my public, my private key. I log in with the same private key and bam, I get my 1000 or 10,000 followers

with me on the next app and on the next app and on the next app. So as I continue growing, and this is especially great for content creators like me when when i continue growing making a name for myself and building my follower base which for any content creator like you peter you know it how important that is that we take our audience with us if you now can't work anymore on twitter because they closed you for some reason or on youtube or you know on facebook you can take what's yours your audience and go with them to the next platform and that is super powerful and i do that so whenever i log in on all my apps i have the same audience everywhere but just with different features and different things that i can do so that's another great things about a great thing

about nostre let me keep going because there's more nostre has built-in micropayments okay what does that mean? That means that if I now put a great tweet out there, a great note out there, I've written something really sharp, really good, and people love it. Not only that they'll give me a like and write a comment or retweet it or share it, they can zap me. They can give me money directly. It's like, it's that simple. They like click zap and I'm like, I get the zap and it can be 20 sats what is that sats is satoshi's which is bitcoin money or it can be like a hunt like yesterday i did um a consulting for someone and by the end of of that consulting session i got 150 000 sats which is like sorry 200 000 it was more than a hundred dollars right on my wallet

directly no intermediary no paypal between us no fees nothing this is just like peer-to-peer payment straight away so the crypto just provide bitcoin not fiat this is bitcoin yeah and i can i can convert it to fiat straight away that's easy for me because i have my wallet and my wallet can then convert it to dollars and i can use it to go buy food in the grocery and on the same day right so this is how innovative this is the ability to have micro payments and why why is why am i putting the emphasis on micro because today with fiat what can you do you can tip someone a dollar right or ten dollars or whatever we know it as content creators as well we have a sub stack we have x that where we can get tips sometimes people get it on youtube or whatever

And you can pay people a certain amount of money, but because a dollar is being divided to 100 units, 100 cents or 100 euro cents or whatever, that's like the smallest fraction of payment that you can make. in bitcoin you have a hundred million satoshis for every bitcoin so you can micropay pay someone you can zap me in 20 sets which is worth 0.0005 dollars right so for me it's nothing i don't even have to think about it when i as i browse through my feed and i like those creators or these posts I just zap, zap, zap, zap, zap without thinking too much. And for us on the other end, it aggregates to become meaningful money in the end of the day. So that completely, I think, transforms the way we think about creators receiving value

directly for their work. Right. And Elon on X definitely wants to take X in that direction. And that's why he explicitly says that he wants to turn X to the app of everything, because X will be a lot more than just a social media platform. It will be where you do your commerce and where you use it for payments and where you use it for various, many other things, AI, etc. And so he also applied for a, how do you call it, a money, there is a license you need to get in the US in order to transfer money. So he applied for that as well. We know he goes in that direction, but there is so much he'll be able to do with fiat. But he'll be if he wants to be as innovative as Nostra, he'd have to go the Bitcoin way, which he probably want. He will probably use a crypto token that he will create, which is a little bit dangerous because, again, it's centralized and it can be closed down.

It can be and it has the same rules as fiat. So it's never going to be as good as Bitcoin. But he's going in that direction, which goes to show that that trend of micropayments is a big, good crack of value that you want to give users. Okay, let me give you another one on Noster. We said it's not a protocol. The payment is fascinating because the two restrictions that we're facing are sharing information and sharing finance. and those are it's the finance one that will really get you and we don't know obviously won't get time to hope at cbdc's and all of that but there is massive control coming it's not just

on the free speech and if the government stop you receiving or sending money then you cannot exist as a as a human being so that is the attack that we're facing and that's why exactly like like our next topic was about to be cbdc which is a perfect natural flow to why i'm doing this and what we're talking about because there's there's information censorship but then there's financial censorship right this is this is exactly what led me from being censored during covid and also in life being censored to then start looking at finance because for me like if the state can do that to my body and to my information the next thing they'll go for is money right this is going to be financial censorship next. We see the trend of cashless societies, ATMs being closed down,

businesses stopping to work with cash, so less privacy in our financial life. We see banks being closed down from last year to this year. We see bank accounts being closed down for people for political reasons. It's another article which I wrote on my Substack. We see de-dollarization. We see a lot of trends that are showing us the way to financial censorship, CBDCs, of course, stablecoins, etc. So if you take that into consideration, the ability to create a frictionless payment mechanism between people with no intermediary in the middle, and that's what Bitcoin is, like it's a peer-to-peer electronic cash network. It's the fact that you can pay people around you or just exchange money, exchange value between people with no bank, no state, no financial institution, no app between you and the other person. It's just immediate transfer of value and money between people. That's what Bitcoin is.

And so and in a complete decentralized and secure way. So when you put that into the mix of what NOSTR is, you see that the picture is starting to be clear that you're looking at an invention here or an innovation here that goes far beyond just information censorship, but also relates to financial censorship and relates to how you can claim back sovereignty over your words, your ideas your content and your money so that that is that is a pretty interesting development and that's why i i highly recommend people take a look at noster it takes a second to open an account there you go to noster.com which is again a protocol n-o-s-t-r n-o-s-t-r n-o-s-t-r.com and you choose out of dozens of different clients and apps which one you want to download and start using from uh if depending on your operating system you'll have to find the client that works with your ios or android or whatever you use whether you want it pc or mobile based etc there

are so many options um so yeah just like give it a go start and see how you go and people on noster are normally quite kind when you just go there and you say hey welcome i'm new you'll get zaps you'll get people engaging with you that everyone's waiting for more people to join so i think the fact that this is um a good response for what we've seen happening lately with the arrest of telegram ceo with more and more social media networks being compromised with your speech being completely um you know open to any government or state to take it down then i think people have to start considering other options as well well i'll certainly delve into that and i know uh hearts of oak audience as your audience effort are hungry to learn to know what's happening and

don't like being told what to do so it's a fascinating subject to delve into um we've got two minutes left and i just want to get your two minute thought on rfk i i know i know it could be hard to read but i just want to it's been earth shattering in terms of uh the election in november and what what are your kind of thoughts whenever you heard that announcement right so not only that i heard the announcement i was actually there in nashville in the u.s when he gave a almost a 50 minute speech last month to an audience of about 25 000 people live in the Bitcoin conference. This is his second Bitcoin conference. And right after him, the day after was Trump giving his speech at the same conference. So both of them came to a Bitcoin

conference, which already goes to show the importance that this technology and this monetary asset has on politicians. They're starting to understand the electoral power that lies in the hands of about 50 to 60 million Americans right before the elections. So they are actually actively learning this protocol and what it means and how it changes the whole reality of money that is really the underlying oxygen of our life and what kind of changes they can bring about in politics

in order to support Bitcoin, which is a big thing. Now, RFK is quite well versed and understands Bitcoin very well, which is amazing. And as both him and I come from the medical freedom movement, right, that started during COVID, he ties those things together just like I do. And he says, listen, if you want real sovereignty in your life, not just medical sovereignty, not just health-wise, not just with your food and nutrition and water and environmental and everything else we care about, but also with your financials, you need to start learning what Bitcoin is. And RFK is making a very bold statement saying, if I'm elected, I'm going to be

putting in place different regulations to support Bitcoin as a reserve currency of the US alongside, like just in the reserves of the u.s i'm going to put bitcoin alongside the u.s dollar which is a big big statement on its own and then soon after he actually pulls back from the campaign and says i'm going to be joining trump and um and there are so many interesting things he has said and done since then but if we just focus on his recent um his recent announcement to join him i think that first of all it takes a lot of balls to do what he did because he knows he's going to face a lot of criticism uh by doing that because he was you know holding a certain line and now with trump this is changing a little bit however i think he understands the the magnitude of the

problem that we're facing. And he knows that on his own is probably going to lose. And he wants to somehow continue to make a difference. So that was one of his only ways to do that. I am not like a pro-Trump or an anti-this or anti-that. I just look at everything quite objectively, trying to analyze what they're doing and how it's going to impact us. Because in the end of the day i care about the people i don't care about the politicians or or the politics but i think that this move was in a way a smart move an inevitable move i encourage people to go and listen to his speech in the bitcoin conference it's on youtube just just um um type in on youtube rfk bitcoin conference and you'll find his speech because it goes way beyond just bitcoin it's a

it's a financial sovereignty speech and you'll understand a lot from following him and what he understands about Bitcoin. So I think that RFK is a very honest person. It has a lot of integrity. Yeah, sure. Just like you said about Julian Assange, like there are some things that I don't agree with him about, but I respect him and I think he overall is an authentic person. so i tend to follow this um development with a lot of curiosity

because i i appreciate him as a person and i think that we're going to see very interesting things coming from his direction so yeah we are and his line that we need to love our children more than we hate each other is is quite a a powerful line and could be an election slogan in itself but effort i really do appreciate your time thank you so much for joining us today and talking about

all those areas of censorship and that tyranny that we all face. So thank you for your time. Thank you so much for having me, Peter. It was a pleasure. Thank you.