You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Ep. 60: Jimmy Song - Will You Choose The Moral High Ground?

Starting point is 00:00:00 getting away from virtue ultimately causes a lot of the evil that we're seeing in the world today so you have to take responsibility for your life you have to you know exercise agency right instead of okay you know i'm always oppressed therefore i can never conquer the whatever ism that is oppressing me i've seen this in bitcoin right you probably know people like this they're in a really good relationship with somebody right and then they self-sabotage they're like you know they They do something that's completely unacceptable and they're not really sure why they did it. The longer you're in Bitcoin, I think the more you understand it. And that's a very important part because once you understand that it really is money,

Starting point is 00:00:39 now it's something that you can use to plan for the future. look who i got the most handsome man in the conference hello jimmy well thank you people can't see your boots as well but cowboy boots cowboy from nashville as well nice nice yeah that's uh wow is that a luke casey i don't know okay okay it might be yeah yeah i love it like original yeah i i love how like uh versatile they are you know you can like wear them with almost anything i know yeah i love it and you live in texas i do austin texas yeah okay so your outfit is also unique in texas somewhat i guess i mean people don't dress like the same right and i kind of get it like uh you know i was talking to a friend of mine that i've been

Starting point is 00:01:37 in banking they're like everyone in banking dresses like this so we want to be the opposite in bitcoin like i get that but you know we we should have standards dude this is your personal brand that's right really really great i love it i love your style okay look to a more serious so jimmy song could you just say a few words about yourself being an author being a developer and one of the most prominent figures in the space. Well, I think I'm recognizable mostly because of the hat. But yeah, I'm a programmer. I've been one for most of my life, actually,

Starting point is 00:02:12 since I was like nine years old. I've been programming in Bitcoin for the last 11 years. I've written five books, one that's technical and four that are more for a lay audience. The first one was Thank God for Bitcoin? First one was Programming Bitcoin. Programming Bitcoin. Second one was Little Bitcoin Book, Thank God for Bitcoin,

Starting point is 00:02:34 Bitcoin and the American Dream, and Diablo and Xenoblade. Yes. Five books. But yeah, I'm an author, developer, speaker, lots of different things. What do you love the most out of everything that you do? Everything, I don't know. I mean, traveling to beautiful places like Lugano is nice, especially when I can bring my wife and can hang out.

Starting point is 00:02:57 They put us up in a nice hotel, go use the sauna. Yeah, that's got to be one of the nicest things. But, you know, one of the things that we did during like shortly after the pandemic was go travel the world and having the opportunity to do that, I think, was one of the highlights of my life. just like traveling, meeting Bitcoiners all over the world. Yeah, with the children, you know, getting to see all kinds of stuff. I mean, I've told you about, you know, visiting both Palestine and Israel, seeing Bethlehem on Christmas Eve and, you know, going to Israel and Jerusalem and all that. It was honestly one of the most meaningful experiences in my life, getting to do that with my children. So I would say that's my favorite is the freedom.

Starting point is 00:03:48 To do stuff that most normal people can't even dream of doing. You're the Voice is brought to you by Trezor, the original Bitcoin hardware wallet company pioneering the development of self-custody for crypto assets since 2013, empowering individuals with an open source device, enabling beginners and experts to easily and securely hold their coins. I find my Trezor super easy to use and recommend it to my friends and family. Enjoy my 5% discount on Trezor product by clicking the link in the show notes and using the code FLAT. Right. And one of the recent things I've seen, not recent, but in the last few years, I've seen that you also help set up, is it a program or a school in El Salvador for programmers, right? Well, so they said it's part of the Plan B network. So they've set up some schooling and they bring me in to teach the technical part, which is basically based on my book, Programming Bitcoin, or the book is based on my class. But basically, I teach programmers how to program the Bitcoin protocol from scratch.

Starting point is 00:04:58 So they really deeply understand it now. And what do you think, if we're already there, when you visited El Salvador and saw like the young people that are coming to learn from you, what did you think about this trajectory and what is shaping up right now in El Salvador? Yeah, so I've been there four times and, you know, at least six months in between each time. And each time I go, I'm just amazed at the improvement of the country. You can just physically see it, right? so first time i went you know it was a little dingy you know there's garbage and you know roads aren't that great and then the next time i come the roads are paved there's like more sewer lines and stuff like that there's indoor plumbing everywhere and then you go back and then there's like hotels being built and uh you know an amusement park a new library like everything's cleaned up and then you go back and then there's like nice restaurants and malls it's just every

Starting point is 00:05:56 time i go i'm just like what happened like how come we don't have this in america right like like it takes like 20 years to like fix one like interstate highway in texas it's like el salvador they do it in like six months what what's what's going on yeah yeah well it's amazing to watch that from from the side i'm going there soon so i want to witness it myself i i have your recent book fiat ruins everything and i started reading it i love it i love all the small you know boxes that you did with like catchy stuff and i plan to do a lot of um tweets from that i'll get to it but you know i i want you to like tell the audience a little bit about um what had you right fiat ruins everything when when really you come from a place where you are advocating bitcoin and

Starting point is 00:06:50 like wanting to show them why bitcoin is great and yet you put the emphasis on how fiat is ruining everything yeah and i did that because i don't think most people realize just how corrupt and awful fiat money is and that's something that i realized like uh while doing my podcast so i have a podcast called bitcoin fixes this right so it's sort of the the ordinary to uh fiat ruins everything and when i started that podcast and i started interviewing people uh the thing i realized is okay it's not that bitcoin is so amazing that it fixes or like adds new bright stuff it's just that fiat ruins so much that if you just remove fiat by adding bitcoin you just fix a lot of stuff because the incentives change so many ways so um that's what i wanted to put the emphasis on

Starting point is 00:07:44 because i wanted people to have sort of that moral high ground right when you're advocating for bitcoin it's very hard to sort of just say oh it's a good investment or like yeah appeal to people's greed yeah instead if you appeal i mean it's easy to do that but i don't feel right doing that i get what you're saying yeah and like some people get convinced by the investment case but i think most people way more people get convinced from a moral case that it does actually ruin a whole bunch of things and once once you sort of convince them of that then it's like okay how do i get into bitcoin it's it's a much um much more sticky sort of like uh you know it's odd or belief system once you understand it so that's why i would say organic um stickiness because our innate

Starting point is 00:08:39 and wish as humans is free will is choice right and if we live in a free world with free will we want to exercise that and so once you manage to tap into that dna of a person it's like you are born free do you want to maintain that or do you want to yeah really be enslaved and i think what i love about what you do in the book is that it's kind of you know we're all fish swimming in the water all the time without paying attention to the fiat reality that is around us and you bring everything to the foreground you're like look at this look at that and people take it for granted they think that that's normal they don't stop to think that it is not normal to live like that we don't have to live like that and so i this for me like bitcoin has to be the moral

Starting point is 00:09:30 high ground and and to show it to people is i think is is um it's not just a blessing but it's a it's a responsibility that we have i think as people that have moral ourselves and values and yeah it hits deeper right like it and and you you want to understand it at a deeper level once you recognize it's a it's a deep moral issue the the corruption of fiat money has just yeah stolen value from everybody uh more or less except the very people at the very top who take advantage of it for their own own needs but even for them there's like a deep moral corruption among say the elites or the the people that are in power um and yeah if you know any of them they they i mean they even just like looking at their faces right like it's just like something is wrong

Starting point is 00:10:25 with these people like you you could sort of detect it almost at a visual level but there that moral corruption like is so like embedded into fiat that you you can viscerally feel it and and when you connect people to that and bitcoin and saying okay like this is the fix right this this helps sort of expose some of that then then they start understanding okay yeah they then they become more advocates than just okay yeah i i made some money it's okay this is actually fixing things and you can see it in this community right like they're they're having more kids having families they're uh you know thinking about uh moral issues uh you know deeper societal issues think about freedom and liberty like it's it's uh i think such a good thing to

Starting point is 00:11:18 get out of that fiat mentality 100 and that that takes me to um like the work you do you know i'm being asked a lot about does bitcoin fix this fix that and i i have given it quite a lot of thought lately you know with the war and everything that's happening where i live and it's quite simplistic to look at complex issues and realities and go yep yeah fix that we'll fix that like just bring it and it's no magic i think that and i want to take your i want to get your take on it because i think that it is a tool to enable change it is a tool to enable even a transformation not not just a fix or or a change but a deep transformation but in order to get there you really have to combine that with some mental, spiritual, faithful kind of work.

Starting point is 00:12:17 If you don't do inner work, if you don't actually implement change in your life, Bitcoin will just stay as a nice tool and maybe an investment. But I think it brings you to the front where you have to implement some changes in your life. So what's your take on, you know, it fixes this. Yeah, yeah. And that's kind of what I wanted to sort of touch on in the talk, right, with virtues and vices of Bitcoin. It's like in order to sort of stay in Bitcoin and really get the most out of it, you do have to walk this virtuous path, right? Because there's so many ways in which you can sort of fall off either into no coinery or all coinery or scamming and things like that. And honestly, a lot of those are moral issues.

Starting point is 00:13:05 And if you if you don't have don't develop the virtue to sort of stay on the right path, then you end up scamming. You end up doing like sort of morally repugnant things. And I think that's what you're touching on with respect to, you know, what you know, does it does it fix this? Does it fix that? Because in a sense, a lot of, you know, what the problems that we see in the world, obviously what's going on in israel and you know the surrounding region really really the entire region is like sort of a flame uh yeah it does get to sort of like the human heart and you know what the motivations are there because it's not entirely clear what the motivations of the leadership are and they're the ones in charge right like what what why is lebanon attacking

Starting point is 00:13:53 israel like why why why is you know israel doing this and why is iran like it's not at all clear what's going on and and that like lack of transparency uh is indicative of sort of like a deep moral sort of corruption right like because if you were transparent about what what was right or what was wrong then the population would agree with you but really like they just sort of gaslight people into thinking okay those people are evil and these people are good and you have to go do this because we're sort of propagandizing you into doing it instead of the right thing which would be like actually measuring things from a moral perspective and saying okay what what's right what's wrong what what's going on where where are we being unfair where where are we being

Starting point is 00:14:42 you know where where are we being taken advantage of or whatever and and then sort of decide as a whole okay like here here's what the right thing to do is uh with respect to natural law property rights and things like that none of that conversation is happening it's they attacked us or maybe you know they planned something or uh you know they something i it wouldn't surprise me at all if like the leadership in these countries like sort of like coordinated to do something to sort of create a war or something like that. Sure.

Starting point is 00:15:17 That's what I think. But this is the sort of like moral corruption that you get into because of the lack of moral responsibility because it could cover it up with money, basically. Like, we're just

Starting point is 00:15:33 going to spend more money to do this and, you know, make people follow us, basically. yeah right um i would love to go deeper with you in like a proper episode that we'll do in the future after i finish reading the book and like talk about a lot of those moral issues in a deeper way because i really want people to get how fiat is corrupting the system and it's not just some people stop at their level of understanding of their someone is making money and that corrupts them it's not just about making money it's really about the virtues like you were

Starting point is 00:16:11 talking in your talk here about love about faith about deep moral grounds that you know people don't even pay attention to how they stray off the rail so and i would i would love yeah yeah i mean teach on what you said in the talk yeah so like uh you know i i framed the talk as like you have these virtues and they're they're sort of like two ways in which you can fall off right so with justice for example there's like falling off on the side of license right allowing pretty much everything or despotism which is like trying to get everyone to do exactly what you think is right and there there's a proper balance and that's that's fairness that's justice right um but you know what what governments end up doing is going way towards despotism on some issues and going

Starting point is 00:17:02 way more towards license on other issues it's and they do it in a way to sort of give themselves the most power possible right like when you're despotic about war could draft anyone you want and like go get go make them fight but you know you're maybe giving more license on sexual things right and it's a way to control the population okay now now you're distracted you're not um you know uh this is what you're fighting for or something like that it's it's a very um it's calculated almost to give themselves the most amount of power possible so that they can control you know everything and the people in power tend to be sort of like control freaks anyway so it's that that um you know getting away from virtue uh ultimately causes a lot of the evil

Starting point is 00:17:55 that that we're seeing in the world today right like including war including just you know theft of all kinds and just uh you know there's just so much theft it like it makes me so angry thinking about how just how profitable companies were in the during the gold standard right and this is one of the chapters of the book it's talking about standard oil yes they one year they gave out a dividend of 33 percent wow a dividend right so so a hundred dollar stock paid out 33 dollars in one year just for owning the stock and most years they gave out a dividend of like 15 percent right dividend not i mean like not yield yeah not not yield not not price increase just dividend it's money you get for owning the stock and this this is how stocks used to be

Starting point is 00:18:51 value based on the dividend that it generates but of course like because uh of fiat money like all of these things got inflated up right you get asset inflation and they're uh and the profitability of these companies comes down um and all of the profit essentially ends up going to rent seekers or bankers right because there's leverage buyouts or whatever you know you you you have a company that makes 20 margin uh we'll do a leverage buyout and pay 10 of that margin to the bank for the price of being able to own this thing now your margin is 10 somebody else comes in well we'll we'll you know pay another five percent into the bank and acquire this again right like this is a game that they get to play when you can print infinite money yes and uh but all all of

Starting point is 00:19:42 that productivity that belongs to shareholders or to the people that are working that that do the make the make the stuff it goes to banks it goes to it goes to uh rent seekers it goes to government bureaucrats it goes to all those people that aren't contributing very much and that that's why civilization's been declining that's why you see crumbling everywhere that's why see just all kinds of uh corruption and you know justification of sort of evil things that are that are being done in the name of i don't know justice or whatever uh but ultimately it's it it takes out the productive capacity of society because you have this access to loans money and all the rest it's all going astray yeah jimmy um i want to ask you about the future trajectory or prediction that

Starting point is 00:20:37 you see for bitcoin because we're i feel like we're starting or entering this era of a crossroad between like you know wall street and and government coming into play of bitcoin versus the original ethos of the cypherpunks etc and how do you see bitcoin moving along do you think we'll be seeing like a split not in terms of fork but just like ideologically between people that are advocating for like non-kyc bitcoin privacy da da da and people who are like yeah that that's a regulated way mainstream regulated way we're good we're good citizens and yeah i mean the thing is you can't stop people from participating and if they want to participate be my guest but you know they're they're used to sort of controlling things and they they'll they'll start doing

Starting point is 00:21:28 things like fractional reserve banking and things and on top of bitcoin yeah and and they'll try the thing is they'll they'll get wrecked and there you can't bail out of bankruptcy in bitcoin right like you yeah if you have uh a million bitcoin yeah you can't save them there's no printing of it to save save other people so uh it'll be that that first failure will be very interesting to watch because that's when the cypherpunks will be like see i told you and people will learn their lesson like start self-custodying and but it takes some pain to get there uh but the pain's coming because uh the banks are kind of known for that so we'll see so you reckon that's gonna happen And what do you think will happen with the general acceptance of Bitcoin in the pleb community or the population?

Starting point is 00:22:21 How do you think they're going to view this as an asset? Or there will be like a deeper understanding of the technology and the monetary asset we have here? Yeah, I think people, the longer you're in Bitcoin, I think the more you understand it, especially the people here. Like they're trying to educate themselves, understand not just the technical aspect, but the monetary aspect, like you said. And that's a very important part because once you understand that it really is money, now it's something that you can use to plan for the future. And if you can plan effectively for the future, well, you have an enormous advantage over everybody else. And that means that you can not just run your business, but your life a lot better. And, well, those people are going to be the ones that have big families and have children and, you know, set up for the next generation.

Starting point is 00:23:14 So, you know, long term, right? Multi-generational sort of like looking forward. I think Bitcoiners just win because no one else is even trying, really. No one else is really even trying. I mean, shit corners think that they're trying, but they're not trying. We know it. I mean, shit corners. are the ones that are like thinking like alternative like marriage arrangements and

Starting point is 00:23:41 things like like they're like they're not interested in having children and like raising them up or anything like that the bitcoiners will win because they're they're they're actually trying right like they're and they're looking for the truth and seeing okay what works for the long term they're they're the only ones actually planning for the future and you know the ones that are planning the best for the future generally win so i i i think that success is inevitable now like the transition how we get there you know i that that's hard to say we can do about it anyway well and so much of it depends on what fiat governments are doing exactly like what's going on in israel like okay i i didn't know i didn't consent to this but somehow now

Starting point is 00:24:28 you're in a war with like four other countries i don't know like what what's going to happen as a result of that does like do they print money to cover it do they get like the united states involved does you know like iran get russia involved there's a world war iii in the middle i don't know but all those things like have an effect like have knock-on effects that we can't necessarily predict right uh so but you know the general trajectory is that bitcoin becomes more um more trusted as people see the instability of fiat governments and you know the people that are in bitcoin because they are pursuing personal virtue um will win out in the end because they're going to outcompete the people that are or outbreed the people at least uh that that aren't even

Starting point is 00:25:16 thinking about that yeah yeah okay i'm with you um is there anything else you want us to chat about before we wrap up i want to do like a full-on good episode with you but for this short snippet that we're stealing you for yeah um i mean i i well it's probably for the next episode but i i would love to hear like your perspective on what to do about palestine right because that that is for me like just uh you know property rights wise and everything i i get their plight and but like how do you practically solve that and how do you get around to doing something now that's that's more of me interviewing you but yeah i guess we can speculate on that because obviously i don't know the answer i can speculate on stuff but i um i definitely think that whatever views

Starting point is 00:26:12 i will be bringing into the conversations will probably be minority views where i come from and I see and know of a lot of the things that are happening in Palestine or in Gaza specifically and I know that most of my community is simply not aware of anything not the history but also not what is happening right now there because there is a complete media blackout about the stuff that we, Israel, is doing in Gaza, and the propaganda is massive. And so I think that when you are looking at the actual actions, and yeah, we'll go deeper later, but the actions that Israel is taking in Gaza, to me, this signals, this is a wipe-out project in order to build back better,

Starting point is 00:27:08 bring on multinational corporations big government contracts and contractors people like musk or others to start rebuilding this area not just palestine but israel as well because it's also being ruined in some areas and so i think there's a very big um corporation commercial play in front of us and we we think there's definitely a violation of property rights for palestinians but also for israelis we can talk about that too um but i think that people are simply not aware they they constantly they don't have a zoomed out long-term perspective historical perspective they just see what's happening now and then the retaliation or the reaction to every step that is happening so they accept everything that's happening

Starting point is 00:28:04 whereas i look at everything and i go this is all playing out so beautifully to their hands to the government's hand or the the larger powers that are driving this so that they can come in wipe out rebuild print more money to fix that and and then rebuild it in a different way so that it suits their agendas and so yeah i think that if there is no major power that is going to interfere with this trajectory in the next year or so or a couple of years then i think we're going to see some major destruction and rebuilding or rehabilitation in this area not in a good way not in a way that will favor the people that will favor humans i think we are still going to experience a lot of suffering both from palestinians and israelis although they're

Starting point is 00:28:58 not aware but yeah they like a lot of suffering is going to be experienced in this region in this area and as you said sometimes i guess through pain people start to understand i don't know not that i think that anyone deserves this pain not at all but i don't know if it's a catalyst list for change yeah yeah it's so at least when i visited israel one of the things that struck me was uh there were actually some people protesting the covid stuff and i was like this was one of the countries that that was like so big on lockdown so big on like vaccines and for two years in the streets yeah with my son yeah yeah like police uh fire not fire water hoses yeah the whole thing police violence and but we were but that that's that feels almost like um like a dry run for

Starting point is 00:29:57 what's what happened later it's like okay yeah the build back better stuff okay let's see how they take this and then yeah condition the society and the population to accept really horrible stuff yeah but i think this is an experiment that has been running for 75 80 years already longer but 75 good years for sure because you know you look at the history of israel these people are conditioned to believe that they are in constant state of existential threat all the time they live in fear they live in like did you ever know that the speed in which Israelis are able to snap in and out of an emergency situation is phenomenal like it happened during lockdown like you would be locked down you'd be you know you'd be told

Starting point is 00:30:49 sit at home for like two weeks three weeks and then they'll go okay now you can leave the house and you know in Germany or in other places you would see that it would take people a long time to like get back to normal in Israel it's like the next day everyone's back in the street like living and then there's lockdown everyone's at home it's like we complete very quickly

Starting point is 00:31:08 because we're almost trained to be like sorry that I'm offending anyone but it's a bit like dogs you know you how do you say tame

Starting point is 00:31:18 you tame a population to like snap in and out it's deep deep programming it's quite disturbing it's interesting you say that because

Starting point is 00:31:27 at least I've talked to people that used to live in former Soviet Russia they they describe things very similarly so like constant existential threat right like the the propaganda that they're receiving is you know the west is about to attack us and you have to be prepared this is why you have to work diversely and get get like these weapons out or you know like continue to supply whatever and that that was uh that was like almost like a constant part of

Starting point is 00:32:01 their existence and like one of the things that they almost all say is like i didn't realize like the level of anxiety i was constantly under until like okay yeah i could kind of relax it's like you're almost uncomfortable because you could relax right like um and and that like uh you know like flipping from one to the other that's like like compliance and doing what the government as again very similar yeah to like i don't know if you had a chance to listen to a guy called yuri bezman of yeah yeah of course yeah yeah he describes it perfectly like the long-term process that it takes to condition the society or the population to live under a constant state of fear yeah and by doing that and creating generations that act and behave a certain way you are then

Starting point is 00:32:54 able to destabilize a nation because they already it's a fertile ground to bring in all these kind of you know terror attacks or what have you to make people believe and reaffirm that that that belief is true that they are being in a constant state of threat and that is what has been happening in israel and not just israel in the u.s sure in the u.s in russia like you get yeah i mean but you know what i mean yeah this is this it happens and staying in with my own eyes it's like it's crazy yeah yeah and it's it's sort of like a way for them to control things and it's all funded by fiat money so yes yes and that's why you know i i could be very doom and gloom where with where i come from and with what i know and with the type of information that i

Starting point is 00:33:47 consume and analyze and put out there but i that's why i consciously try to like 70 80 percent of my work would be focused on bitcoin or solutions or you know how to live your life in a different way spirituality etc and maybe 20 30 will be dedicated to that harsh reality because i don't want to give it too much space in my consciousness in my reality and i think that if people understand that dwelling into that and they they are very powerful and they're successful by doing that you let them harvest your energy and you let them play with your head so you need to consciously choose not to play in that yeah i um in my talk i was talking about people that fall into despair right like and there's so many people that's just like you know there is no hope they're all

Starting point is 00:34:42 interesting then you said they're not used to winning yeah right yeah i i really i want you to say more about okay yeah because they they i i've seen this in bitcoin right they uh and i don't mean you probably know people like this they're in a really good relationship with somebody right and then they self-sabotage they're like you know they they do something that's completely unacceptable and they they're not really sure why they did it but they they're sabotaging the like a good relationship it could be a friendship it could be like a romantic relationship it could be a marriage but they're not used to they they're uncomfortable when when they're winning right when they're doing doing well i think they're there's definitely like a strain of person that's kind of

Starting point is 00:35:27 like that they they're so used to sort of being in the opposition they they want to be in the minority they want to kind of be losing so they can always constantly be fighting so when when they're handed a win they're like i can't accept this right like they and so for uh at least in the bitcoin space these are the people that are like okay yeah i'm winning i'm i'm i'm gonna you know go buy some shit coin now or i'm i'm now going to sell or it's no longer good or finding some random reason for selling yeah it happens yeah definitely yeah and i think that when people are not used to winning they will i think it's a lot more comfortable and easy to continue complaining rather than take responsibility and when you win you have to create something new

Starting point is 00:36:17 yeah because you know one okay so now what yeah i won now what i do with that winning or whatever it is so you have to stand up and do something mature and decide like take choices and well And you've got to stop complaining and actually do things. Right. And and that's honestly what hope is about. It's working towards a future instead of like being in the pits of despair. It's actually working towards something. And that's unfortunately like something that people would rather not do. They would rather, you know, complain and like not actually act to make a better future because now they're responsible for it. Instead, you can complain about other people not doing what you want. And it takes them back to the familiar cycle.

Starting point is 00:37:05 They know how to be in that place of complaining and things not working out. They don't know how to be in a place of winning, of a victory. And that takes leadership. That takes far-edge leadership. A lot of other virtues. Yeah, a lot of virtues. Because in a sense, you have to take responsibility for your life. You have to exercise agency.

Starting point is 00:37:26 right instead of okay you know i'm always oppressed therefore i can never like conquer the whatever ism that is oppressing me and instead you okay like now what now now you're responsible for your life what are you going to do with it and that is a door that they don't want to walk through they don't they don't want to have agency and responsibility and make something of themselves start a family whatever it's no it all sucks and i just keep complaining and that's exactly where i want my audience to step into that door of taking the responsibility and looking at your life and thinking what you can build rather than complain that exactly where i want them to be i would love for the world to be in that state and you know um i i gotta like um you know promote

Starting point is 00:38:17 the hat a little bit because that that's that that for me is encapsulated in that full cowboy go west culture right where they would go out to the frontier just you know do like you know they you know they weren't complainers right like it oh it sucks here or whatever they just went out west you know i'm gonna go do my own thing i'm gonna i'm gonna go and make into reality what i want to see exist right and these were the people that went out into the wilderness you know chopped down trees made a log cabin you know like started farming or ranching or whatever these are the people that made something of themselves and that i think is the spirit of this community the the people that are making something of themselves trying to create and that that i think ultimately

Starting point is 00:39:05 builds civilization rather than bringing bringing it down now jimmy you're my favorite cowboy and thank you so much for doing that yeah we're gonna take it deeper next time okay so i really enjoy talking to you i enjoy talking to you soon

You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Ep. 60: Jimmy Song - Will You Choose The Moral High Ground?

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