You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Ep. 65: Prince Philip - Bitcoin Adoption and Fixing Broken Systems

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

My guest today is Prince Philip of Serbia, an important voice for freedom and independence, tackling issues like brain drain, too many regulations, and economic troubles. He also serves as the Chief Strategy Officer (CSO) at JAN3, a company focused on accelerating hyperbitcoinization by working on nation-state Bitcoin adoption and also developing the Aqua wallet. As a father of two living in the historic Serbian royal palace, he’s passionate about building a better future for the next generation. In this chat, we talk about how to balance tradition and progress, EU’s legislation and sentiment of Europeans, Serbia’s potential for Bitcoin mining, and how sound money can help society grow. Prince Philip shares his work with policymakers, efforts to improve energy use through mining, and ways he’s teaching others about Bitcoin’s power to create change. ► If you got value, please like, comment, share, follow and support my work. Thank you!-- SPONSORS --►► Get your TREZOR wallet & accessories, with a5% discount, using my code at checkout (get my discount code from the episode - yep, you’ll have to watch it):https://affil.trezor.io/SHUn -- SPECIAL OFFERS –►► Enjoy theLittle HODLer products, learn about sound money while having fun! use code EFRAT for 10% off on non-sale items:https://thelittlehodler.com/ ►►  10% off on all books & accessories at the “Bitcoin Infinity Store”-use code EFRAT►► Join me in any of these upcoming events:https://www.efrat.blog/p/upcoming-events -- LINKS –Philip’s Twitter:https://x.com/PrincFilip1 Philip’s Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/princfilipodsrbije/ Philip’s Nostr npub: npub198q8ksyxpurd7lq6mf409nrtf32pka48yp2z6lhxghpqe9zjllfq5wtwcpJan3’s Website:https://jan3.com/ Efrat's Twitter: https://twitter.com/efenigsonEfrat's Telegram: https://t.me/efenigsonWatch/listen on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/yourethevoiceSupport Efrat's work: ⁠https://www.buymeacoffee.com/efenigson   ⁠Support Efrat with Bitcoin: https://geyser.fund/project/efenigson-- CHAPTERS –00:00 Coming Up…01:05 Philip’s Introduction and Family Life04:48 Aqua Wallet: Innovations in Bitcoin Transactions09:51 Philip’s Role in JAN3, Political Connections and Bitcoin Adoption12:46 The Impact of US Politics on Global Bitcoin Sentiment16:02 Challenges in the EU 21:14 Migration and The Separation of Money and State, Bitcoin Regulation in Serbia27:29 Western decay, Declining Birth Rates, and Building Stable Societies29:25 Cash vs. Bitcoin: A Cultural Perspective34:39 Closing thoughts

Cash is much easier. It's a better instrument. That's right. But also, cash is hard to store as well. That's why we'll continue using cash, but we'll continue promoting Bitcoin because it is the number one money. Everyone has to go through their personal journey of understanding what Bitcoin is and how the societal issues that we have today are stemming from the fiat system. Because of inflation and because of financial hardship, we're not reproducing at a high enough rate. It needs to be over 2.1 in order to replace population and grow.

We need to fix that. And one of the only ways to fix that is to be able to have people actually save, store something that cannot be devalued, and that is Bitcoin. Civilizations come from people having access to property that is unconfiscatable, that they know that their government, that the monarch, that whoever's in charge is not going to take their property away, overtax it, and leave them alone so they can grow their wealth. Hello, Philip. How are you?

Fantastic. How are you doing? It's so good to have you again, Your Royal Highness. I always feel so humbled to be with you. I'm sitting with a prince. It's a weird one sometimes. It's great since last time we talked, it's a year now. It was a year. Last time was in Amsterdam. Amsterdam.

October, just before my second child was born. Yeah. That's right. So lots happened since then. So now you are a father of two. Father of two, yeah. Is life different? Life is very different.

Oh, no. No, it's a little bit of a work, but it's beautiful to have a son and a daughter now. Her name's Maria. We named her after my mother and also Queen Maria, which was my great-grandmother. Right. Yeah. Is she gorgeous? She is.

She really is. Full of smiles. Wow. She's really huggable. Wow. She screams when she wants something. And you guys moved back to Serbia? No, we moved back four years ago.

2020. But the recent move is that we moved into the palace recently. Really? When can I come here? Anytime you want. Anytime you want. It's a very recent move. We're living in a thatch house in the palace grounds.

It's the first house that was built in the property that my great-grandfather, King Alexander, bought. And he built that first house there as a place so he could oversee the construction of the old palace, the royal palace, and where he then moved into afterwards. But the thatch house where I'm living right now was then used as a place of education for my grandfather, King Peter I, and his brothers, as well as King Alexander's wife, Queen Maria, as her studio. She was an artist. Right. So it's got a lot of history, that place. And the original palace is being constructed? No, no, no.

That was completed construction 1930, I think. And then the second palace was constructed 1936, but he was assassinated 1934. So you didn't see the end of that construction. Yeah. And is there a museum there today? There's no museum, but there's tours. It's open to the public.

Yeah, no, it's tours for the whole palace. For the whole palace? Not the bedrooms, but the palace. Wow. There's a lot of history there, a lot of art, beautiful rooms, sculptures, furniture. Wow. And the area, the view, the history, it's beautiful. You can see also when the communists moved in, when they kicked us out.

Yes. They actually got rid of a lot of the coats of arms and put either red stars or another sort of covering. It's still in place. Oh, yeah, yeah. We kept, we keep history. We're not the type of people that erase history. Very good. Yeah.

Wow. So people that come to Serbia should come and visit. Of course, it's open for visitors. Yeah. It's amazing. I'll give you a private tour, though. I would love to come and visit. Okay, that's wonderful.

And what about you in the past year? So what have you been up to? um what was your focus on in the last year last year uh was main focus is actually moving into the palace and getting my daughter christened in the in the palace chapel like her older brother was uh stefan my daughter's her name is maria and the last year was so it's big transitional year moving into the palace that my father wanted her to be christened in the palace and also say it was a good time to move into the into the house i talked about and moving with a lot with family is not easy so that took up a lot of time also working on bitcoin as always i attended a

few conferences a few meetings here and there uh jan 3 we launched our wallet in the beginning of of the year on january 3rd uh for aqua and it's been a success uh we haven't been marketing it we are uh oh it's just it's all organic at the moment nice so we're gonna put some money into marketing we're not going to be doing uh the typical online sponsorships of like sponsoring podcasts and things like that we're going to do on the ground marketing guerrilla guerrilla good so people actually using it in places get feeding what is actually the product in your hand and get your hands dirty and get it working send a few sats or dollars to them because as you know aqua is a special wallet it's uh samson's brainchild it has it's uh it's it's an easy

go-to wallet for that will hopefully adopt the next billion people that's what giant three is about is trying to onboard uh as many people as possible not just talking about nation-state onboarding but uh speeding up hyper-publicanization and aqua is your go-to easy wallet uh to use wallet that your grandmother can use that's right i love that tagline when so you use it that's of course i use it since my episode with samsung i downloaded and started using it and you like it of course and that's that's the wallet that i use i shouldn't be i don't know if i should be saying it but that's the wallet i use when i orange peel people and i tell that's like the first wallet it's either wallet of stushy or aqua or both i don't

have to say anything else yeah so they download it they don't need to to put any kyc nothing they just download it it says a wallet your grandmother can use and i can forward sats in a second to them and up they go. They have a wallet with Sats in. That's it. I have Sats on core as your savings account.

They have your liquid account, which is your spending account, which is where you can send Lightning transactions for liquid transactions. Thanks to the fact that you guys have those two layers

implemented already inside the wallet, it helps me explain to people what layer two and layer one are very quickly because they see it in front of their faces.

They're like, so what's this and what's that? And I explain it and they get it straight away. So it's really easy to use. And there's USDT on it as well, which is big in Latin America.

Actually, apparently, there's more USDT usage in Latin America than there is Bitcoins. Because of their economical situation. The sad thing is that USDT is mainly done on other chains, you know, ERC-20 and Tron and stuff like that. But we do USDT on Bitcoin Liquid.

Right. So when you're an extrovert, You can use any other chain to transfer into our wallet, USET, and it will come up as liquid chain, Bitcoin. So it's a good way of getting rid of the shit coins, I guess. The others. The others, yeah. And then you can always move back and forth. That's our business model at the moment.

From on-chain to Lightning. To Lightning, to USET, any sort of swap you want. We have some good technology behind that. oftentimes you know when i go overseas for you know that's i think a use case that most people would like and would probably use in their day-to-day life you go overseas you do an on-chain transaction from your how do you call it cold storage wallet to your aqua yeah to bitcoin like on chain and then you do a conversion to lightning you put your five hundred dollars or one thousand dollars in there go overseas you don't have to take your cold storage with you

And you just fly around. So it's just easy, easy. And I don't have to carry the cash. I mean, I do carry a little bit of cash. You always want to do that. But you don't have to be afraid of, you know, security in the airport. How much cash do you have? You have it in your Aqua wallet.

Correct. And it comes with you. Exactly. And if you want to, if you go into Argentina, you can convert those into actual physical cash. There's people in the streets doing that all the time. Easy. Yeah, easy. They want you.

Yeah, the USDT to pesos. Obviously, now inflation is not such a big issue now, thanks to Malay. It's about 3%, 4%. But when we were there in 2022... The number is not the same as real life. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's 3%, 4%.

But you still feel it. You still feel it. It's better than it was two years ago. But it's still... Of course. We feel it all over the world. Of course. I feel it in Serbia when I go travel around.

Switzerland as well. Even Switzerland, you feel it. um they're so expensive here yeah it's crazy you're the voice is brought to you by trezor the original bitcoin hardware wallet company pioneering the development of self-custody for crypto assets since 2013 empowering individuals with an open source device enabling beginners and experts to easily and securely hold their coins i find my trezor super easy to use and recommended to my friends and family. Enjoy my 5% discount on Trezor products by clicking the link in the show notes and using the code FLAT. Okay, so for you on the professional level with

Gen 3 and Aqua, what is your focus on? Like meeting, is it more of, you know, meeting politicians? What do you focus on? My focus is on trying to make introductions to politicians. I make this year it's been kind of slow given that uh with the birth of my my second child and moving and moving the houses but uh i made made a few connections here and there i've made more connections with our serving governments uh i started to see that they might be more receptive to some some bitcoin i made connections more connections to our um our friends in republica which is a serving autonomous part of bosnia herzegovina uh yes that's so yeah in 1992 there was a dating agreement that split the country and gave the Serbian people a big portion

of land in Bosnia-Herzegovina that was run by the Serbian government there. And they have a certain autonomy. So in a way, if I can orange-pill them, it will be easy to get Bitcoin adopted there. I'm moving towards the angle of trying to get some sort of mining happening there. We have good capabilities for geothermal. Already there's a hydro there. Yes. And there's dirty energy like coal and stuff that I like to tap miners into

and try and get them to pay for better filters and things like that. You can call it dirty. Dirty. It's energy. I have to call it dirty because we get the effects of it in Belgrade. When we're living in Belgrade, when winter comes, if the air is still and the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, you can really feel the coal in your eyes.

Yeah. It's one of the most polluted cities in Europe. Wow, I didn't know that. And if you're wearing contact lenses, which I do, you can really feel it. So I try to wear less contact lenses and more glasses. Interesting. Okay, so you're putting focus on the irony. A few years ago, the coal plants in Serbia were run by European Union companies.

One good thing about the European Union, they had good, let's call it, laws for installing filters on their coal plant. So the exhausts were filtered to European standards. These companies were then sold. The rights to the coal mining were sold, I think, to an Indian company. And those filters are very expensive. So those filters went with the previous company. So now it's kind of spewing coal at its normal pace.

So it's not good. So if we can raise some money to try and put some better filters in there, I'm for that. Okay, maybe that's another venture for Gen 3. Oh no, that's a personal thing, yeah. So if we go back to Gen 3, you're speaking with different politicians around the world, different decision makers. Yes. How do you think that the U.S. action, the political action,

is actually influencing a sentiment or a perception of Bitcoin adoption around the world when you speak with other countries or with other... I think that the recent election cycle has been a very positive thing towards Bitcoin. We've had three where before we got the actual candidates running against each other, before we knew it was Harris and Trump,

during the primaries, We had about five different candidates talking about Bitcoin openly. And now Trump was talking about Bitcoin openly. Trump went to Bitcoin Nashville and actually did a 45-minute presentation about Bitcoin. I don't know whether he fully understands Bitcoin, but I know he has people surrounding him that more or less understand Bitcoin. I believe his sons, Eric and Junior, that's it. How can I forget that? I don't know if they're maxis, but I think they get it.

I heard his son speaking and that's it. So that's positive news. What was great was that Trump actually brought up the word self-custody and said the need for self-custody. That was monumental. I represent with you. And then you saw recently that Dennis Kortz was announced that he works for, he's a co-founder of Satoshi Act Foundation.

I just interviewed him yesterday. that new law in Pennsylvania, the new Bill of Rights of right to self-custody in a swing state, important swing state for Pennsylvania, a huge state in America, a very important state, and that could send a president for other states to follow suit.

Due to the complexities of U.S. laws, actually, this is actually a good thing that could actually encourage federal law to follow suit. news. So very encouraging. So even I think no matter if it's a Harris or Trump administration, this could actually be very good for Bitcoin. I think not. I prefer or openly say that I prefer Trump administration for a number of reasons, mainly for geopolitical reasons. But on a Bitcoin level, I think, yeah, I think either could or won't. I mean, Trump will

help more, but I would say that I don't think Bitcoin is going anywhere. Bitcoin doesn't care about harris so i have to be he doesn't care about any politician i have to be a bit you know apolitical but i'm putting i'm saying out there that i prefer trump in terms of for peace in the world so yeah okay i i definitely agree with you the fact that he says what he says about bitcoin makes more people aware whether it's any citizen or a politician people are becoming more aware thanks to the action that's going on in the U.S. I mean, if there is a chance that the U.S. will adopt some Bitcoin, then it will make a big ripple effect, no?

If a local state starts putting it on a treasury or something like that, then that's just going to be the domino effect after that. Exactly. Game theory or whatever you call it. Right. But what I find worrying is what's happening here, not necessarily in Switzerland because it's not part of the EU, but what's happening in the EU.

Can you talk a bit more about that? The EU is, look, I'm not going to badmouth the EU, but I think that nothing great has come out of the EU in the last 10 years. The two best innovations that come out of the EU, which I hate, is paper straws and those bottle caps. And the filters. And the filters, yeah.

Filters for EU, we're just talking about filters. Exactly. In the EU, you don't have any companies that are, any tech companies that are registered or headquartered in the EU that are in the top 10. EU is not a kind place

for innovation. EU is taxing and regulating too much and they're pushing out innovation. And as a result the US and China are taking advantage of that. So also their attitude towards Bitcoin.

What do you mean taking advantage of that? Do you see people moving? oh yeah no no yeah businesses yeah all uh all that the top 10 the top 10 tech companies and uh you want to see one of them is in the top 20 maybe i think you see a lot of tiny speak chinese companies in the rest of the u.s i don't even i can't name one big tech you uh european company can you no exactly no no all your all your facebook microsoft yeah twitter's uh I mean, Google is in Ireland, but it's an American company. Okay, but originating from the US.

But yeah, Ireland is a different story, actually. They have some headquarters there, but the innovation is not coming from Ireland. And this is the thing, what I believe is that the EU should start actually attracting citizens, attracting companies um making more in uh how to describe it but just reducing the tax being more competitive again because they are not being competitive no right now it feels like that the focus of the eu is implementing the 17 sustainable development goals of the agenda 2030

and which is pushing people away because there are so many restrictions and limitations on freedom of speech and freedom of transactions cbdcs are being implemented by the ecb etc correct people don't really see the reason why and energy prices keep going up and up and up all the time people don't see the reason why they should build their future in the eu i've just now had lunch with someone who's uh they live in the european union and they're looking to move out and this is not the first case you know i'm hearing a lot of this people want to leave the eu and open borders yeah don't help either to the sense of security of people an elected parliament that decides that it gives direct commission you mean the european commission yes yeah that sends

directives to the uh to tell the two countries to adopt uh so they're basically destroying the sovereignty of nations right and they're attacking just normal folk who are very proud of their uh of their country of their origins right and they will call these nationalists there's nothing wrong with being a nationalist. Nothing wrong with... They'll call it extreme right wing? And they'll label them

extreme right wing. What's happening there? Wow. Causing divisions. Right. So someone up there is creating some sort of divisions. But we see some political leaders.

I'm naming like the Hungarian president, Erdogan, who's actually aware of this. He's a Christian. He understands the divisions and is actually awake to this. And I want to see

more Erdogans out there in the European Union. It's also resisting the World Health Organization. Yes, exactly. If I'm not mistaken, right? Correct. Right. So going back to the EU, it was a great project up until they started to send directors from the commission.

I think an open economic area is advantageous. Free trade. That's right. That's fine. Are you coming next week to the conference in Prague? No, no. I'm going to attend the Free Cities Foundation's conference. It's called Liberty in a Lifetime.

Yeah, that's the kind of stuff they talk about. I was at two years ago at a conference. Good people, yeah. And it's, yes, it's a shame because the European Union could be a bedrock of innovation and a bedrock of freedom. And instead, it's a place where people feel restricted. They feel that their livelihoods are being taken away, that their freedom of speech is being attacked. and on top of that Bitcoin is not

highly looked at in the European Union you have countries like Italy wanting to impose a 42% capital gains tax you had the ECB

coming out with this paper recently saying that those early adopters are going to benefit over later adopters and it's too late

basically I didn't understand okay so how is it that companies like Amazon and Facebook and people that where people got in early

and they're still allowed no same in any aspect any asset really but it goes much greater than that really so philip when we live in a in a world where today everything is so globalized there's a good side and the bad sides of it but for citizens when they look at what's happening in the eu and that trajectory that you're describing right now they can vote with their feet they if they are smart enough to have bitcoin for example where they store their you know hard-earned money and and savings they can take their bitcoin

and move to another country that opens exactly that opens yeah opens their arms towards innovation towards entrepreneurship less taxation better life exactly and i think that we're going to start seeing that kind of modern western migration happening in the next few years as more people discover bitcoin and understand that they can do that yeah they come a lot of hard people even coming to want to move to switzerland coming to want to move here because it's going on here and it wasn't possible say no 20 30 40 years ago when people wanted to leave the ussr they couldn't take their money and go now you can now you can now you can that's a pretty powerful thing that didn't exist in the past and bitcoin enables that it's beautiful it's absolutely beautiful

that uh it's it really changes what uh how we how uh how governments can control their citizens and the way they they can't they they don't have full control of us anymore because we have a tool now that allows us to uh to to to to be sovereign again and have a pure better uh uh asset that you You can actually just not even have to hold it on a piece of paper on your phone. You can actually hold it in your head. Exactly. And that's going to fundamentally change the world for the better. I 100,000% agree with you.

I think it changes the rules of the game. It's like kind of rewire that game again. It gives more power to the people. And on top of the political level, that's what I was seeing a panel today on Bitcoin and politics is that, look, one of the core thesis of Bitcoin is to separate money and state. Money and state are entrenched in each other and they feed off each other. And that goes hand in hand with the democratic cycles that we have

and that short-termism, that high preference behavior that we have. That if you take away the state from the money, I think you will still have economic cycles, four or five year cycles, but they won't be, I think leaders, if they don't have access to money, for instance, they won't act as short-term as they are today.

It will help correct a lot of that societal decay that's happening this very moment. And it's accelerating. It is accelerating. As it's accelerating, so is Bitcoin adoption. So we see different pockets around the world, these beacons of hope everywhere. Right. Like El Salvador, like in parts of even Dubai as well. I know they've been to crypto as well, but they're very open to it.

They're starting to pay people with Bitcoin and salaries and stuff. Abu Dhabi as well. um the kingdom of uh Bhutan they're mining bitcoin then you discover that they have been doing all that all along the tax jurisdictions like the Seychelles I believe no Mauritius I believe and then Isle of Man if you're in the UK and you want to escape Isle of Man no capital gains Madeira we forget Madeira exactly that's that's a great place I think that people have to start researching not that we we think that moving to another country is an easy thing it's never an easy thing there's always a challenge in it but for some people it's easier than it was

they don't have a family they're not so attached then they're thinking okay i'll vote with my fees exactly in my position now i'm settled in serbia and i will i will die on that hill and i will make changes there and uh yeah i will we have a crypto law i say crypto because it encompasses all that was introduced in 2021 yes and it's look at least it recognizes it's and it's not going to ban it but it's not it's not positive it's uh to get regulations to run a bitcoin or crypto business it's a lot of a lot of hoops and barriers that you've got to go through and the re-registration process like it took one guy who was uh the only crypto exchange in uh in in serbia uh ecd it took him two years to regain his license it's that it's that bureaucratic so

i'm going to try and make some moves to try and change that and work with uh local bitcoiners and make make them understand the difference between bitcoin and crypto and let's see if and also we have to capital gain stack let's see if we can get rid of that as well how high is it uh 15 or 20 percent uh make and i'm trying to have more tax advantageous situation and and attract not just Bitcoin businesses, but IT businesses. Because Serbia has a huge capacity of technical minds. We export a lot of our intellectual capacity to the rest of the world. Either they're based in Serbia and they work for a foreign company

like Microsoft or Oracle or something like that. Or they're small services agencies. or they just leave the country and that's the brain drain that we have. We have a lot of brain drain from IT but a lot of brain drain

for a lot of people in financial services and insurance, law and stuff. There's a lot of intelligent people that come out of Serbia, educated people and they will go somewhere else

to get a better life and then they send money back home. I would like them to stay in Serbia. We're going to make better laws for them and make entrepreneurship easier for them.

Interesting. And really focus on serving companies. I made some contacts with some local Serbian companies, IT companies that are hiring about 70, 80 people who are very, very motivated in retaining Serbian talents within our borders. And yes, OK, we'll have to pay taxes, but reduce those taxes. Make it more attractive because we're not making it that attractive enough yet. Serbia has a lot of other things that we can offer. Society has not decayed as much as the liberal West has.

you know we we don't do that lgbt stuff you know okay yeah there's some marches and stuff but the majority majority of the population are not bought into it so yes so we know the very traditional still the orthodox church there is still very uh people still go to church a lot it's family values are still strong there having said that though we um because of the financial situation that because of inflation and because of uh of the of financial financial hardship uh we're not reproducing at a high enough rate we have the same reproduction levels as the liberal west at 1.412 when it needs to be over 2.1 in order to replace population and grow so we need to fix that and one of the only ways to fix that is to be able to have people actually save or store something

that cannot be devalued and that is bitcoin right yeah which is like the bottom line of is that having to have a good private uh individual uh right private prop individual private property rights that is the foundation of a stable society of of how to grow civilization that's the birth of civilizations come from people having access to property that is unconfiscatable that they know that their government the the monarch the the uh whoever's charge is not going to take their property away, overtax it, and leave them alone so they can grow their wealth. And therefore, they're comfortable with their future, with what they have that's going to grow. So therefore, they can invest themselves, number one, which then invest in

their families, then invest in their communities, and therefore that grows civilizations. And that's the birth of civilizations. It's through strong individual property rights, which nowadays is bitcoin perfect i'm with you sound money hard money exactly um last time we spoke you told me that the people of serbia also really love their cash how is it going in serbia with like cashless moves is it do they do they tried so 2001 21 sorry uh i wasn't a public bitcoiner yet i was still just became a maxi but i wasn't public they tried to make a move on our markets our open air markets i mean some of them in closed numbers anyway but our uh our our food markets i go shop in the food market do i that's why i get most of my uh most of my food mainly meats but you know

i get some vegetables in there for the family and that is all in cash some accept cards but that's all cash they try to fiscalize that meaning that they want to pick that to be tracked on by cards by the fiat rails. Huge outlaw because that's known as the gray market. And basically they realized, no, no, we can't encroach that.

That's the livelihood of a lot of people. So cash is king. It didn't work? Didn't work. It didn't work. People just refused. Cash is king there still.

And when you tell them something about Bitcoin, don't worry, a lot of people there will understand Bitcoin, but then there's a few, not a few, that will not fully understand

what Bitcoin is, and they will think it's a threat, a foreign threat. The people there, they've had issues with foreign powers, mainly with their sovereignty and destroying our way of bombing us and destroying our sovereignty, as I said. And just there's not much threats for international powers, let alone our own government as well. So they see Bitcoin as something that's controlled by like the CIA, MI6 or something like that. I mean, easily debunked, of course. Of course. It's just a little bit of education.

But it takes time for people to actually pick up a book, go to YouTube, watch one of your podcasts or something like that. And just learn a little bit. Yeah. That's where we all start. I mean, the journey is all, everyone has to go through their personal journey of understanding what Bitcoin is and what the issues, how the societal issues that we have today are stemming from the fiat system, which is entrenched with politics. That's right. So once you understand that, then Bitcoin is easier to understand and understanding what money really is. Yeah.

And as much as we love and want cash to stay in our lives, we have to understand that cash is fiat. Exactly. It is being debased. So even though it allows you with privacy, it doesn't allow you to really hold the value of your money over time. And, you know, they've done things in the past. I'm not saying in Serbia, but I mean, whenever there's hyperinflation, your cash disappears. You've got to stop from there. But in this situation, it's like pregnancy.

Women are okay to become pregnant again because they forget how painful it is the first time. that yes there is a hormone there is there's so true we experienced uh you could slide in the experience the third highest um bout of hyperinflation ever so those older generations should know that about that but no everyone's quick to forget in israel we had it in the 80s twice twice twice recent of the current you can easily recall notes what happened in india Exactly. When they had denominations that they didn't like to have to recall. What happened?

There were stampedes. 60 people died. Yes. Chaos. Chaos. The same thing they suggested to do in Israel now, to take the 200 check and no... There you go. I didn't know that.

Really. Just recently, they suggested it. It's not a law yet, but they're working on it. Right now, the central bank said they're not going to do it, but we'll see. They may pull it out again. It's going to have... People will get crushed. People will get crushed.

Yeah. And those who are saving those notes under their bed, what are they going to do with them? They have to take them out. They're giving you a few hours. A few hours. And you have to declare that. Yes.

Privacy going on. Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, interesting to see how those trajectory move on because for me, any attempt to abolish cash is another rail in the direction of... And that's why I'm still in support of cash. Exactly.

I know that using a card is very easy. I use Apple Pay. I use contactless. It's so easy. That's the issue. They make it so easy. But we all know, as Bitcoiners, that the settlement system is not good for us

and for the supplier. And there's nine steps along the way and everyone takes their cuts and it takes about a month to finally settle. And it's just dated and it needs an update. But also that cash is, they can't, yeah, it's much easier. It's a better instrument. That's right.

But also, because cash is hard to store as well. Yeah, that's why we'll continue using cash, but we will continue promoting Bitcoin because it is the number one money. It's number one. Yeah. Well, Filip, thank you so much for being spontaneous with me and doing this. It's been my pleasure. Yeah, I love talking to you.

okay great and where should people find you twitter right twitter at prince philip with an f

one okay or instagram instagram right you're there as well that's right uh

i don't even know the handle off by heart yeah you just search your name yeah i'll pop up but i'm yeah i'm active in both

we're waiting for you on nostre as well so i have a handle whenever you have a handle yeah i have a handle that uh my my serbian friend

milian who who runs Primal. Yeah. He made me open one in 2023. Hello. I've been a bit busy, but I have a handle and I need to get active on it.

So I'm completely on Fornoster. You know, that is freedom of speech. Nostra and Bitcoin together is like, wow. Yeah. I love it. I'm all for it. I'm just being a bit lazy. I'm here for it.

I know. It takes time to get into it. I'm there. I'm going to tag you there. Whenever you go there, you can echo that and thank you so much have a great show

thank you you too thank you