You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Ep. 67: Reyna Chicas - Bitcoin Education is Changing El Salvador’s Future

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

My guest today is Reyna Chicas, the Director of Education at My First Bitcoin (Mi Primer Bitcoin), an organization pioneering grassroots Bitcoin education in El Salvador. Reyna's journey is one of resilience—growing up in a country shaped by economic instability, corruption, and violence, she forged a path from call center employee to becoming a global advocate for financial sovereignty through Bitcoin education. We dive into the realities of El Salvador’s economic transformation, the challenges of unbanked communities, and how Bitcoin is creating new opportunities for financial inclusion. Reyna shares her personal experience witnessing the shift in her country, from fear and skepticism to a growing movement of people understanding and using Bitcoin as both a medium of exchange and a store of value. Tune in for an inspiring conversation on how Reyna is helping people understand money and how education and financial empowerment can transform entire communities. ► If you got value, please like, comment, share, follow and support my work. Thank you!-- SPONSORS --►► Get your TREZOR wallet & accessories, with a 5% discount, using my code at checkout (get my discount code from the episode - yep, you’ll have to watch it): https://affil.trezor.io/SHUn -- SPECIAL OFFERS –►► Watch “New Totalitarian Order” conference with Prof. Mattias Desmet & Efrat: https://efenigson.gumroad.com/l/desmet_efrat ►► Enjoy the Little HODLer products, learn about sound money while having fun! use code EFRAT for 10% off on non-sale items: https://thelittlehodler.com/►► 10% off on all books & accessories at the “Bitcoin Infinity Store” - use code EFRAT►► Join me in any of these upcoming events: https://www.efrat.blog/p/upcoming-events -- LINKS –Reyna’s Twitter: https://x.com/ReynaChicas2 Reyna’s Nostr: npub1pxx4j8zlvvcp7wctlwhtf4nm4trwf3jav5ucvdp4h4cyv4ayvlas3wkvmeMi Primer Bitcoin’s Twitter: https://x.com/MyFirstBitcoin_ Mi Primer Bitcoin Website: https://myfirstbitcoin.io/ Efrat's Twitter: https://twitter.com/efenigsonEfrat's Telegram: https://t.me/efenigsonWatch/listen on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/yourethevoiceSupport Efrat's work: ⁠https://www.buymeacoffee.com/efenigson   ⁠Support Efrat with Bitcoin: https://geyser.fund/project/efenigson-- CHAPTERS –00:00 Coming Up…01:16 Welcome to Bitcoin Beach01:57 Reyna’s Background, Journey and Insights08:37 El Salvador Becoming Dangerous in 201514:35 The Effects of Dollarization in 2001, Politics & Corruption21:30 Why Reyna Left El Salvador in Her Youth31:57 Reyna’s Awakening & Discovery of Bitcoin35:14 Bitcoin’s Early Days in El Salvador38:43 Reyna’s Journey into Bitcoin Education 47:46 Reyna’s Vision for Bitcoin & Its Impacts51:38 Bitcoin’s Future As a Medium of Exchange57:10 Bitcoin as a Unit of Account59:53 Bitcoin Perception by Salvadorans (Locals)1:07:52 Empowering People & Communities with Bitcoin Education1:19:57 Reyna’s Message of Hope & Closing Thoughts

I met, like, personally people that got lost in drugs and alcohol. You had all this money all of a sudden. You're a teenager. You don't know what to do. And, you know, drop off at school. And then who do you have with you? All these friends or, you know, your bros. And then, like, and then they ask you to do stuff.

And then, bless that you know, like, time has gone by and you are already in a gun. A politician that actually decides to introduce to his country a tool that liberates people from control. and pushes more sovereignty onto their hands is a leader that is worth looking at or paying attention to or following. You don't like Bitcoin? Fine, we still like you. Just be a nice person. Educate yourself as much as you can. And above all, be kind. We want to talk about getting to Bitcoin. Educate yourself. Again, don't trust what we say. Don't trust the government. Don't trust Verify. It's just as easy as that. Bitcoin education to me is a means to an end. And this is the end. It makes you hopeful. It makes you positive. It makes you have agency on

your life. Basically, that is it. So hello and welcome to another episode of You're The Voice. I'm Efrat. I'm here with you in El Zonte, El Salvador at the Bitcoin Beach grand new beautiful studio. It's actually one week old. It's very new and it's really impressive. And I want to start with a shout out to Mike Peterson and Paco and the team for hosting me here. Thank you so much. And And please go check out their podcast, Bitcoin Beach Podcast. So thank you so much, the guys at Bitcoin Beach. I appreciate your hosting.

And my guest today is no other than the wonderful Reina Chicas. Hey, Reina. Hello, Efrat. Thank you for having me. I can tell you how excited I am, you know, like because I've seen your podcast on the other side. I'm like, this girl is great. And now we got to meet.

We got to meet in Prague. and now like it's it's a very surreal to be here and it's my country so I welcome you I'm happy that you're liking it so thank you for having me very excited for a conversation because I don't know what to expect yeah we both don't know what to expect this is gonna go wherever it's gonna go but I I just knew I have to have this chat with you because you know I'm here because I wanted to experience firsthand what it's like to be in el salvador in a time of change in a time of i think a transformation in the world but i think that el salvador is playing an important role in this transformation and it has the potential to lead the way on many fronts and your boots

on the ground you're actually leading some initiatives here that i think are making a big difference so i want my audience to be exposed to your work and to you and because you're such a beautiful person and the soul and everything i just had to have you on so thanks for agreeing to come yes my pleasure so reina you're the direct director of education at me premier bitcoin or my first bitcoin and we've just had a chat with um with um john who founded my premier bitcoin me premier bitcoin and it was amazing and with with john i think we dive deeper into the why of of the the mission of my premier bitcoin like what led him started and what has him be on that path towards changing the world by building something new and with you i want to dive into your personal

story, but then I want to ask you about your point of view about Bitcoin education. Why is it important? What's the best way of doing it? Why you're doing it the way you're doing it? And how do you think that the work you're doing here can then be used in other places around the world to bring about the change that we so much want to see? So let's start with your background. So tell me how you got to a position where you speak English so well that you have this very open global mindset that you can travel the world and connect to people everywhere. And you're like a citizen of the world. I mean, I know you're a Salvadorian, but it very much feels like I'm speaking to an international person when I'm with you so tell me about your background how did it

all start well thank you because that's a good compliment and I think so just quickly El Salvador has always been you know a place that in the days we would feel a little bit like trapped growing up seeing you know corruption and looking up for looking up to other countries we have a history of a lot of our family immigrating to the United States that's like super super common like as any Salvadorian we all have a family member close or super super close like my aunt my you know my cousins everybody's up there and so I will say that it was 50-50 so my I'm lucky that my parents you know raised me and to their extent they tried to give me the best education that they could it was never the most expensive school but it was like what they could afford so I could have

better opportunities and once I talked this a little bit with Mike that is interesting how I remember that the 2008 financial crisis even though we were here it did affect a little bit or or financial situation so I was already in a university and you know my so my dad lost a few jobs and I was like okay so now I'm gonna have to work um it was probably he's gonna help me you know a little bit to get into university and I was like okay we're gonna have to find a better job that pays better so I could help and support you know the family I was still like I don't know 18 19 and just first university so the call center industry was sort of starting to boom here and we would hear okay yeah they paid well I've always liked English and I always felt like it

When more or less did it start to boom here? That would be, I will say, 2005, 2006. And I was out of high school in 2007. That global companies would open call centers here? Would open call centers here, yeah. With English-speaking representatives? Exactly. And they would hire locals?

And they would hire locals, yeah. We would go to the venue, right? It wasn't a remote job. and I remember doing like two or three times interviews through different periods of months and I was like no your English is not good enough and then your English is not good enough but it actually motivated me I was like okay so I'm closer or now I'm closer oh nice yeah so yeah so I took lessons like I actually went to an academy to learn English it took me two years and so that's good you didn't give up yeah no i i didn't i didn't want to give up um

and i was feeling even back then that it basically opens you a new word like your language your vocabulary everything is one word world and an english is another one i don't know if it happens to you you know with hebrew so it's like you feel like you have another like block another entity another entity or something like here in your brain so it was very nice and it also like you know the english is the middle one like we met germans we met dutch but we all like meet in the middle ones english was the basic one so yeah i worked there for a few days a few years actually uh tried to like you know escalate grow within the company i was studying psychology but mostly for i like it but i was like okay so this is a career that can actually do here like human resources

although I wasn't much into human resources and you would just try to see yourself where you can actually grow as a person make a living and then El Salvador got very dangerous 2016-2017 that's more or less when it started to get um worse see like 2015-2016 are the years that I Remember, we had the headlines, the most dangerous country in the world, literally, even on top of Honduras, which has always been hard on us. You're the Voice is brought to you by Trezor, the original Bitcoin hardware wallet company pioneering the development of self-custody for crypto assets since 2013, empowering individuals with an open source device, enabling beginners and experts to easily and securely hold their coins. I find my Trezor super easy to use and recommend it to my friends and family. Enjoy my 5% discount on Trezor product by clicking the link in the show notes and using the code FLAT. So end of the, like, so the end of the 90s, starting in 2000, we got a lot of deportation from, you know, all the people that have gone through the civil war.

We have had a lot of like history in like a short period of time. You could put like 40 years, a civil word, technically a peace period. And then we have all of the, you know, the deported people, which were not always bad. It's funny because they all, they were the ones that sort of started also the call centers, you know, like because they will have that native English. So a lot of them are Salvadorians, but they left when they were four or five. So they basically have the American accent. And we would meet, it was a little bit tricky at the beginning as locals. but then hanging out with people that we know that were deported and then we like it break those

barriers like not everybody not everybody's bad as bad person i've met really really good people the the community was kind of like suspicious of people that were not salvadorians always and didn't live here because they may also be criminals or whatever exactly so you had to rebuild that trust in people and especially because you know they were tattoos are more normals like outside here they would always a little bit of a stigma and in taboo like if you had a tattoo it was but you were related to guns most of the time so we would like feel like we couldn't trust or like being deported was a bad thing and sometimes it's just you know like the bad luck from place it's not because you committed a crime so why would people be deported um maybe

like sometimes even you know for um DUI like you drive drunk or they got to the work I don't have the full history but I've heard that you know at some point ICE was actually looking on places that they know that Salvadorans worked and they will ask for your documents and you wouldn't have documents because you entered the country illegally and then next time you know like you're on a plane back to El Salvador um so and it's so that I think it created you know this um breakdown in the families that had to leave and then come back and then some of them that were still there they left little children that then actually just looked for i don't know like a community and sadly the guns were around and then they got into their falls basically and because that happened a lot

as well for so many years i remember having my classmates they would be taking care for the grandmother or the grandfather their parents have immigrated illegally also to the states to look for a better future and that's something that luckily my my dad was actually very close to do that at some point but they didn't work in the u.s working yeah but we saw it so much like it's super rare to find a family that actually made it you know like the parents went there yeah and no and not succeeded but that didn't break the family because you would go and think that you will still be with your wife long distance but then there is no option to come back and then you've lost your connection with your kids um so so a lot of families suffered

from that separation wow that separation yeah that was a common thing that was a common thing that was a common thing and then i i i can imagine how more easy it would be to kids or teenagers to be drawn into alcohol violence uh exactly gangs whatever because their parents are not together and they're suffering like lack of love or trust or stability yeah okay yeah and also you know your grandparents are already tired like they're not gonna look for you after like everything like they have three more different like grandchildren to take care of so that was yeah especially on the you know those communities that were the ones that we would call red zones so yeah that happened a lot i think it was like uh and was the money related to it as well people were poorer

the money was related it's always been you know like a struggle to i mean it's what they would call a third world country so i think yes and no you know because so your parents go and they are making more money that they will make here and they just want you to be safe but then they just send you money or they send money to their grandparents remittances yes but you are 13 14 years old you really don't know what to do with money your parents just want you to be safe they just want you to be good yeah and that i think that's you know of course a way of them trying to look after you by not being here but then they get lost like you said yeah i i met like personally people that got lost in drugs and alcohol very young because you had all this

money all of a sudden you're a teenager pre-teenager you don't know what to do and you know drop off a school and then who do you have with you all these friends or you know your bros And then like, and then they ask you to the stuff and then less that, you know, like time has gone by and you are already in a gun. Okay. So one sec, just in order for me to complete the picture about the money, when did El Salvador go on to the dollar and lost its own currency? When did that happen? 2001. One.

2001. Yeah. And it's actually called like law of monetary integration. so on paper technically and legally we should still be able to pay with or salvadorian colones from back in the days but nobody accepted that's when when i learned about bitcoin and money does anyone have it yeah we have it as a souvenir we have it as a like a memory of the past yeah but yeah so it was little by little i remember and um we made mistake on the newspapers we will get like the conversion sheets and everybody would cut it and you put it plastified on your

house so you could know how much was exactly you know the amount like one cologne was 8.75 dollars and it stayed like that like up till this day but I'm sure like inflation will adjust it and it took maybe I would say a year or two gradually like we probably didn't even feel it all of a sudden we're like okay they don't accept colognes anymore so little by little all the dollars take over so at the beginning you could pay with both okay it was still okay okay it just took time so or dollars yeah these are the colones disappear and then the dollar took over okay the dollar took over did that help because no not really it was 2001 and then things got worse so yeah yeah no no i mean technically it was gonna help for i guess investment and all of i mean it

help the top it didn't help the rest of the fiat the fiat economy okay and then on top of that did you have a situation of corrupt politicians and yeah we had a situation with a lot of corrupt politicians so even actually i will start starting like the sign of technically or peace agreement in 1992 and then what we would call the right took over took took uh that period they ruled for 20 years and it was just you know one bad after another after another one but it was like enough like competition you know from other candidates to actually win them so in those 20 years they basically you know sort of owned El Salvador by land by properties by banks they created actually this event it's technically for you to say for your retirement

but it's private so they take a portion out of my check if I work and it's mandatory that's by law But if they go broke, or they close off, I lost that money. So I have money saved there for the years that I worked into the corporate world here. They've probably done three, four times more revenue with my money than I'm actually going to get of interested. So they privatize telecommunications. We have public telecommunications. uh they they yeah they privatized the the bank we have a national bank they made it private right so they basically you know took over took over many assets many assets and that's how you

know they stayed in power is because it's how it is very small so it's just a few families that you know to cover i guess now that's changing it's more economic i guess like developing new families come into place you already have a company you go well it's a little bit more spread out but for so many years was just we knew certain last names that were more the ones that oh the elite el delito and actually the elite of el sador was almost the elite of central america so i was really surprised i was like okay we're the smallest one and the rich people here is some of the richest in central america so that was very so you know it's a corruption thing um and so yeah So I remember that in, when was this?

So this government for, I would say like 12 years ago or something, one candidate from the left, he was used to be a journalist and was very popular. And, you know, would run for president. That's when after 20 years, the left was able to change the power into the government. And we were really happy. This is I'm not proud of saying this, but it's what you do with the information that you have back in your day. So I don't judge that. But I remember us going to the streets and celebrate. And finally, he turned out to be one of the worst that we've had. So ever since I don't worry, we've all been through this.

I mean, I've been through this as well. When I was hoping for a change and here they are promising us the next prime minister is going to bring the change. And I was in the streets fighting for it. And then we won. I was so happy. And then the next one was the biggest jerk in the world. Yes. Yeah.

And they actually did the exact same thing. It doesn't matter if it was left or right. They were all playing the same game. So that was a lesson for me. Yeah. Yeah. Those two, honestly, those two periods of the left, which is in total 10 years, were worse than the previous 20.

Wow. I think it has to do definitely, you know, with the dollarization because at the end of the day, you know, the Fed prints more money. So we get that inflation. but it feels like it they were as corrupt they were asked um at the same it was just more of the same um and then until president what's happening is that the whole the whole society is being debased and being robbed off and stolen from and there's taxes local taxes as well that they pay and they cannot even control the supply of the money because it's controlled by another country

And they don't even understand that they're being stolen from through the fiat system. And you understood that? When did you start to learn and understand that? Not really. I understood. I wouldn't say the part of money, like, you know, we're being debased, but definitely like the hardworking class people is the one that always suffers the most. I remember that I watched this documentary Inside Job from the 2008 crisis around 2016,

in 2017 and it was eye-opening but the first thing I saw was like we are and there's nothing that we can do because this is going to happen again that's all I thought I was like I really feel hopeless yeah not because here I saw that as a global thing and I was like okay like we are the last ones in the chain so how this is going to affect us I remember the 2008 so and the thing is even the people in the government they don't even know you know about money how to control it and work it so they could just asking loans to the imf and all of that and just getting their pockets filled with as much as they can um yeah this president was crazy because he like you know he would have ferraris and lamborghinis like it's el sarva like what is your salary what was his

name mauricio funes funes si mauricio funes yeah he was yeah yeah he's he's technically not even salvador you know he's a nicaraguan yeah you know that it's crazy right like for so many years we lived in so much oppression that even telling you the name publicly i'm like should i said that right yeah yeah and i don't think you should be afraid anymore yeah not right now not with the art right now i agree so this is a hard context and i don't know i i guess i i can give it to my parents or at some point god i always try to see a positive i've always tried to to thrive and to push through to things. But yeah, when the, El Salvador was at its peak of very dangerous

and you are already, you know, in your 20s and you're working and you want to hang out, you want to feel a little bit free. Like that's your time to leave, right? Before getting married, before getting kids. And so I left. I lived in Guatemala for four years from 2017 to 2020. It's like a YOLO period go. And after certain periods, like right now, I get serious.

So I try to learn. After what? After that period of working at Hostel, I worked at an academy, also an English and Spanish academy, and years go by, so we're like, you should get serious, what are you going to do with your life? Not a career, I was in about more like, if you don't have a career, you are nobody. No, just to feel like what you do has meaning, it has a purpose, what are you going to be contributing to this world, rather than just drinking and hanging out.

so it was it was um i i'm really happy how it turned out like it's just what you do with your reality so that's why i i sympathize with a lot of people that has it off but i sympathize more when you push through because you can do it like don't blame it on the don't be a victim of your reality yeah yeah life doesn't happen to you is what we make out of it and so i tried to like horned as many skills as i could i would buy courses to learn online skills because to me was more about freedom all i wanted was freedom after i felt like a prison being living here and not being able to go out because it was way too dangerous uh there are so many stories like even ubers you would get raped in an uber you would disappear in an uber like yeah it was crazy so

you know it's crazy because for us it was normal and when i shared this with friends and like my sister saw someone get you know murdered in front of her it was just all normal and you would be like just go go go and i the most infuriating part is that you knew who they were and you couldn't say anything because nothing will happen like they will be out in a week if so if not they will just go after you and your family so that was the most that was the i think because there is no justice no there's nothing yeah that and how crazy is it that we live in such realities that we get used to the madness and it's normalized into our daily lives you know i was recording the podcast with walker while the missiles came in did you see that when i was did

you see that yeah i shared that with my family i'm talking and then the missiles start coming a couple months ago from iran right right next to my house and then i i jump and it's it was very close and Walker's like let's stop and I'm like no no no let's keep going there's nothing we can do about it because you know you're used to this as much as it was weird even for me it was strange I couldn't stop because I don't want my life to stop and I do live in a crazy place but that's the way it is and it's a bit normal and I think the reason why this went viral is because people got a peek of what it's like to live in such a place where horrible things happen around you and you need to keep going

because you don't want to get sucked into that horrible reality. You want to still be sane and centered and happy and you want to keep going. So it's like you, all that stuff around you happens and you refuse to give up, to surrender to that vortex of energy. you you just want to be sane and happy and and live your life differently right yeah and as sane as you can and that's why um like you said you know it's me but that's very like it's rare so i try to transmit it as much as i can because i can understand how you can feel like a victim

for so long when you see different realities so within our society now uh i will say like one of my goals is also then to see that there is hope and that any government no matter how bad or good it looks is not going to solve all your problems it's on us yes um you know someone can go crazy hope he doesn't right like yeah someone can go it's up it's on you because i i feel like sometimes people has a little like honeymoon with a new administration they're like oh but nothing is happening like what have you done differently you know if you don't know anything differently Right now, I asked the other day, I was with an army friend, and he was complaining, yeah, but they haven't done this in education. And I know, right, because I'm inside, like I'm on those meetings that I know when I'm out, I'm like, my God, we're changing the future.

But they are private. Those are processes that take time. To take time and do it. And I was like, okay, but what do you prefer? Do you prefer how we wear? Yeah, I know that this is not done yet, because I know it's going to happen. but uh it's better there are more job opportunities for sure or even the ones that were before especially at night you know companies will provide transportation so because transport

public transport here runs until eight seven p.m but back in the days it was not possible because it was too dangerous to go and drop you at your house now that's possible they pick you up they drop you off so it's it's it's improving it's improving it's an improvement for sure it's an improvement in tourism um isn't improving in or day-to-day not feeling afraid you operate differently but you are not on survival mode all the time of course of course i know when you're on survival mode oh life is very different very different and when you're in thriving mode yeah Oof. Yeah. And okay. So back to 2022, you're in Guatemala? 2000. Yeah. 2000, 2017, actually, until 2020.

Okay. So you're in Guatemala 17 to 20? 17 to 20. And what made you come back? So early, like January 2020, I was like, this is it. I should change. Actually, even when I was living already there, when the President Bukele was already, you know, like elections, I came back just to vote. Okay. So I wanted that. Where did he come from, by the way?

Was he like known to people here or he just showed up out of nowhere? No, he was a major before already. So he was a major of Nuevo Cuscatlán, which is a smaller, we call them municipios here. No, that's like the district. Ah, district. The district, yeah. And then after that, he was a major from El Salvador, which is the capital. He did well, too.

He was already running. Originally, he started with the left party. That's because normally there were just two majors, like in America Republic. There are others, but they don't matter. So he was like with the left. And that's why we're a little bit also more sympathized to him because he wasn't with the right party from El Salvador. and but i think when he started to like you know raise his voice as well they expelled him out of the party they expelled him out of the party that's a good sign yes i agree i agree yeah

because you don't you're not you're not gonna tell me what to do right like i understand but but he was already also popular enough to sort of survive that i'm sure that they would have tried to shut him down and you're not gonna do anything without us i'm sure like he probably of course i'm I'm not sure they tried to blackmail him or threaten him or whatever. Yeah. And then, so he, they also tried, so we have like the main entity of the election that is technically impartial, but it wasn't. So they didn't let him also, I remember to like drive another party. So he went under another one.

And then now his party was born, Nuevas Ideas. And that's the flag that he, you know, went under. Okay. But it was literally like just about that. So he won in 2020. And he won, was it 2020 or 2019, I believe. I believe it was 2019. Okay.

Yeah, they are for five years. I have to check where we at. But yeah, 2019, COVID was a big test. Like that was a big test, you know, nearly one year of government on office. And I got stuck in Guate. I couldn't come back. He was one of the first ones also to close the borders, which is controversial. But at the end, I think it did help.

We were some of the first ones to open and we were open like no test, no nothing. And it never got super crazy here. It got just crazy enough. But I guess I understand. Mike also told me that they did at the beginning, but then they understood that they went too far and they took a U-turn. CCC. Yeah, and I understand, you know, at the end of the day, it's just also one piece. You cannot go against the whole world.

Maybe, you know, we're people in the end of the day, even in governments, you have people. And I think most people were fooled at the beginning to believe that there is a major global crisis. We're all going to die, you know. So I give, I cut some slack to people that did not see it right from the beginning. I didn't see it right from the beginning. It took me a few months to recollect my senses and my logic. But once you do, if you do the right thing, then it's fine. You know, we all make mistakes.

We're humans. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So that was, that was it. So I went, I went, so that was it, right? I was ready to come back and then COVID happened. So I was already there. I was like, okay, so I might as well.

So you stay. So I do basically feel like I sort of lost a year, but no, because that was the year of awakening. Okay, great. What happened during that year? You know, COVID, then it was, so it was quarantine. I was like, okay, when are you going to have time to learn and do nothing more than just be inside? So use the time. I believe I heard about Bitcoin late 2020.

I saw it on a show. I look it up. I show it on Grey's Anatomy. Recently, I was overwatching. I was like, this is what I saw it. And I took a picture. On Grey's Anatomy? They spoke about Bitcoin?

They spoke about Bitcoin in 2017. I have to find that piece. On 2017. I love Grey's Anatomy. It was such a great show. I'll show you where, because I took a screenshot in the video last time. I'm re-watching it. I normally like to have a show that I don't care.

I just have there to have my meals. That's so funny. And they, on an episode that they sort of hacked the hospital, I don't know what happened. They were asking Bitcoin. And I made the math. I was like, they were asking Bitcoin, I don't know, 5,000 Bitcoin. So back then, because the guy says, oh no, that's like $20 million. And I just checked it out last week.

If that amount of Bitcoin that they were asking, it was nearly 390 million now. Oh, my God. They were asking it from whom? From the hospital. So some hackers were asking Bitcoin. Ah, they wanted to do a ransom? CCC. So they hacked them and instead of money.

They asked for Bitcoin. Yeah, they asked for Bitcoin. Good script writing. Okay. So if you know it. Bitcoin is for criminals. CCC. Yeah.

That's where it goes, I guess. But yeah. I bet it was part of the propaganda to get Bitcoin a bad name. Like we do a ransom. You're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't see it that way. I'm sure it was FUD.

Okay. You see? That's what they used to hack you. Yeah, Hollywood is known for subliminal messages like that. Okay. So that was one. And then I believe I probably asked my brother because I always feel like it was my brother the one that introduced me.

But I knew that somehow I had listened until now that I watched it again. It's like, this was it. i heard his name and i was like what's that and he actually says it in the in the source it's digital money and like it's 20 million dollars now because dr bailey was asking what is bitcoin why he keeps saying isn't bailey the hot good-looking guy uh no dr bailey was the director like the black woman that was the chief of the hospital yes yes yes okay so that's where i started like you know you see it for the trauma but not really not really we know what's good for you yeah go on and yeah so we learned and at the beginning

there was also a way to okay so this thing goes up with my brother like he did explain me he did get it how it worked but i didn't understand when he explained it to me because it's just something so remote for you in a sense how can something cannot be controlled like it's just really 14 years for you. And I'm like, okay, that sounds weird, but so should be useful. Like, should we buy some? I believe we did buy some Bitcoin, I think it's through Binance or any other exchange. And then we heard rumors of the Bitcoin law. So I was like, okay, we should get into it. We should learn. We should, I mean, if this is coming. Did you know that Bukele was a Bitcoiner? No, I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know. I did think it was a crazy move.

Now I will say it's a bold move. Back then I thought this is a crazy move. But I think it's also, it was tricky because we still had the dollarization on our brains. Like it was recent. So then a lot of people was traumatized. Oh my God, this, and it's digital and we don't know how it works. And we're going to get replaced again. Like we finally get the hang of dollars and now we have this Bitcoin.

So I think that was the first maybe like. so were people afraid like the the population was afraid about about the change yeah were they also thinking that he was crazy yeah i'll say like at least the ones that i spoke with yeah for us was like what a lot of criticism a lot of criticism a lot of doubts and i would say more not just criticism you're just afraid and the sense is because you know he was still popular we still like him but it's like what is this like okay so we like you but hey you're going too far yeah like what are you doing yeah so you know we trust humans like most of the decisions so far so it's like okay this is this is a bad move even I was like this is products of internet we don't have

the best internet infrastructure in El Salvador how's this gonna work it's gonna be slow people it's not gonna know because even end of 2020 I remember I did visit El Sonte because of that bitcoin thing and I heard on the news that was something happening here but it wasn't as alive as it is right now honestly he wasn't as alive as it is every time I come back I'm so surprised and I come often enough like I live 40 minutes away so I come often enough and this huge building here is this and this so it's really nice it's really cool just last night I was talking with Jorge who's the one of originally founded Hope House back in 2019 and he was telling me how they went like people to people and one thing really nice that he told me was like because at the end of

there is also money so we shouldn't lose friendships over money like if they don't understand it sure that's fine like you know we just went it's like okay if you don't like it that's fine so that's why people here in asante is also not afraid of the volatility someone can tell you oh it's gonna go down they've seen in a 40 they saw it at 20 they see us like they got it like most of them better than us yeah they understand so i i believe that he's one of the you know anonymous heroes when he was telling me that story it's like we don't know about you and you played such an important... Who is an anonymous hero?

Jorge Valenzuela was his name. He's one of the founders of Hop House. Okay. Doesn't work, I think, with anything else yet. Now he just, you know, did his job of orange peeling his family or probably the community. And that's it. Because he, oh, he's actually the husband of one of the entrepreneurs

that we had at the women's event. Yeah. So he sort of remembered it and he was like, oh, yeah, I want to hear about that. My wife really liked it. And that's how we sort of connected. he didn't know like you know what was that doing it's like i can imagine you know back in the days nobody wants it and now we have bitcoin for kids now we have you know woman in bitcoin so all of

this is going and we're like it's happening he's like it's happening like that boom that we wanted and that we didn't see it's happening now and which i can see this was my third year at adopting bitcoin and i can see the swift i can see more salvadorians i know people criticize that there said many but it's just what it is like for now it's growing it is what it is exactly it's growing in its own pace in its own pace yeah so here you are doubting the move that president bukele is taking thinking that he's all crazy and here you are three years later the director of education of my first bitcoin so how did you get to this position and what had you when did you meet my first bitcoin that's crazy yeah so i will say so you know low was 2021 yes it took me a while

because it's same that's why i i have mixed um opinions or feelings about you know doing that divided of women and bitcoin and men like i think we are all together i so i struggle a lot but i do think that you know back in 2021 when i could have already started working i didn't because i was a little bit of insecure of going to a place with a bunch of get mine, especially in El Salvador. It was just, this is just a bunch of geeks. I'm not going to learn anything from it. There's so many geeks.

There's so many, yeah, right? Yeah, now that it is less. I don't want to offend anyone. No, I know. Yeah, exactly. Now, I think now the community is growing and learning that we can use our own gift and our talent. We all have our role.

Our role, yes. That's why I enjoy it so much more because you get to the deeper conversations that are not about coding. So it's all everything else about problems in the world. So I heard about Bitcoin. I heard John didn't know this story that I saw him on a YouTube channel of a traveler, like a blog traveler that I used to watch. And he came because of the Bitcoin law.

Because of the title, this guy was probably here. And he interviewed John when they were starting the first meetups. In San Salvador, there were like five people. I was like, I should go to that one so I could see what it is. It took me like almost a year to go to one meetup. To go to one meetup. Yeah, to one meetup. And then I finally was like, okay, it's now or never.

Let's go. Let's see what it is. I sat down and looked. Chatted with Jonah a little bit. Still, the community was, you know, a lot of guys. Yeah. But I was able to speak with Napo. And I was like, hey, I want to learn.

But throughout this year, I have already like educated myself. You know, I watch a lot of Andrea Santonopoulos, which I'm happy because if we're going to shit coal uh coin rabbit hole it would be yeah so i never i've never got any altcoins never me neither yeah high five yes yeah yeah it was just bitcoin so and so 2022 so i went until 2022 and then i heard about this conference coming because i speak english i i was okay i can go and i went to their booth again uh hey guys like good to see you and i was trying to get involved as a volunteer maybe so i already had my jobs i had clients i was a freelancer um executive va and i was gonna dedicate so you know this is what i know how to do let me know if

you want any help and etc and i took the bitcoin diploma i went to the house met some of the team so fast forward he got a call from lago bitcoin the project in guatemala it's like hey we would like to have an educator here it would be great if it's a female because they were struggling you know it's again right again i did notice when i went there and we would go with eliezer who is the leader the community leader it wouldn't be as much rejection when he was with a girl because yeah or or or culture is is very machista so normally the girls have the need to ask for permission to the husband or to the brother yeah okay and especially in the mayan community it's just i don't know if it's good or bad it's just what it is and it's a tradition culture it's a

tradition yeah they're very they're very much more traditional um so my boyfriend would have loved me to ask him for permission yeah right you never do right he didn't ask me and said fuck you but he would really love that if i if i gave him a call and say hey do you allow me to go to this yeah he would laugh so much it's so funny how modern cultures are so different from each other yeah so you try not to offend as long as it's healthy i understand it is i am so respectful yes each to their own beliefs and traditions it's great and if you know that it works for you it doesn't offend anyone it doesn't hurt anyone you go ahead and live your life the way you want to and i i don't want to go you know oh no you shouldn't listen to him and this and this you

don't know the reality you know how that relationship works you just take what you you can so i went there it was supposed to be 10 weeks to teach the bitcoin diploma ended up staying six months wow and throughout that period you know just teaching people about bitcoin learning i i believe i learned more myself because you know i studied to teach so you started to teach yeah yeah and i was like oh so every time i was like something new so this is associated to this and this is associated to this that's why i asked you the other day like how do you keep these conversations digestible and on very well people because you find out but you're like i can tell them this right away they're gonna freak out so how can i you know just go little by little i did

a lot of one-on-one because it was hard to get groups together no one was really really really interested in learning um they do a bit because they hear the good reputation of el salvador so that was a that was an advantage that they see el salvador changes positively so then they don't criticize because as much but they of course a little bit afraid at the end of the days in latin america talking about money has always been a taboo they will even tell you you don't talk about money religion and politics and the tape so then it's on your mind like you don't have money religion and politics it's like you eliminated 50 percent of the stuff you can talk about i know so what are you going to talk about people like you're not just criticizing food

food yeah so it was nice it was it was it was a it's a a good starting learning curve and i was like i think i want to do this like from full time i told a friend it was like oh you're gonna become one of these bitcoiners it was like probably so i was still working you know my works and then teaching in the afternoon i lived there and i like teaching but i did feel like it wasn't you know like my call to be all day every day repeating like sort of the same i knew that could help with more so I was very open to the team I was like hey when I go back to El Salvador I would love to get if you guys have space a position whatever you can put me I can still teach a bit but I've done this this and this in the past especially you know with remote work

I like a little bit of freedom so I don't want to feel like tied to a schedule and they were like so supportive in the sense yeah right now we've seen your work we've seen what you do we've seen that We'll put you something and you just, you know, because I tried to redo. And you make it happen. Yeah. And then while I was there, so technically I was just going to go, you know, for Bitcoin Lake, but I wasn't in touch with the team here. So whatever they needed, like presentations or, you know, graphic design, things like that, I was available. I was like, let me help you.

Like, I can do it. Like, I have time. No worries. Someone will cancel a class. I was like, oh, yeah, I can help with this or translation. So that's how it started. I've always, you know, like I'm happy to educate myself, but I also learn from other people. And one of the things that I think I was craving in my life was like a good group.

I was like, I'd like to, I was reading a lot for the past two, three years that it's very important for you to have a purpose in your life. Like if you like happiness, that's what it is. I was trying to find out what are we here in this world for? And okay, what can I do? How am I going to make a living and have a purpose? you all associate we always associate like making money for the sake of making money then it doesn't matter what it is so you just you just go after the money I didn't want that anymore I didn't want to go I want to work on something that will also do for free like no matter what it's

education or whatever you just do it for free and yeah that's how I ended up so I was like teacher teacher a bit then a little bit of a teacher lead um and then they asked me to be um you know to join the board which it was a little um one of these times where you really have to trust yourself and like they're seeing something that i'm not seeing in myself i guess yeah i know that it was very humbling it was very honoring and so you know one year later that i attended my first Bitcoin conference, which was here, I am speaking at the opening of that conference. And for me, it was like, what the heck happened in one year? But I believe it's definitely the people that you surround with, what you do with your life. It just creates so

much positivity and not toxic positivity, like real change personally. And for me, that's empowerment. And when I realized what we want to achieve with Bitcoin education, I mean, like this is it like if more people can experience and live what i filled personally in one year now two years three years we're gonna be a much better society we're not gonna depend on if the government would does well or does bad we are going to change your reality bitcoin education to me is a means to an end and this is the end it makes you hopeful it makes you positive it makes you have agency on your life basically that is it you use it however you want it people hold bitcoin okay that's fine hold your bitcoin i see it as a medium exchange i see it as a unit of account and it gives you

that opportunity to have options like it opens opportunities for you you have options that's a privilege i mean we didn't have it for so many and that mindset shift is what i personally believe will create a better work. We're going to leave a better work. I might see it, I might not see it, but that's the hope. That's the hope that, you know, people in 20 years

are going to be seeing this podcast and say, oh, these people was trying to gather there together. I'm trying now to be more like, you know, what is it? Like pending of, you know, the newspapers a few weeks ago was in the front row

of the national newspaper, new record, Bitcoin 80,000. I'm like, I should save these ones. Of course you should. Because we're going to see this in 10 years, 20 years, and we're going to say, you see, it was real. I have a little picture of the... What a dream to have media that actually covers the truth about the world. That's why I'm here.

That's why I do what I do, because they don't do their job. So someone needs to come in and balance that coin chittery a little bit. Yeah. Right? Agree. Agreed. and I'm like we should be like learn to live in the present but then hope for the future and it changed your mentality to build which is what I feel like it feels here in El Salvador now

not everybody I mean we're humans like you said we're humans not everybody's perfect even within the Bitcoin space we know that not everybody's perfect but it just makes you you know like what you do is just so selfless and that's just so uncommon in our world on our fear work which has come from a lot of competition yeah a lot of negativity a lot of just like racing rat and who's doing better and having more stuff like physical stuff is how you are successful and uh now you see i know i've met bitcoiners that i know that they're well they're better food they're just enjoying the beach i'm like this is happening this is whatever it's not what the society tells you that it is like having the the newest iphone the most expensive

safeguard and having a mortgage for 40 years that you don't know if you're going to make it. So that's all that I understand now when people come and see here, because I had the opportunity to travel more this year and I see it outside, I see it in Europe and I'm like, oh, I understand what they mean now. People here, it's a little bit coldish. Here, everybody smiles at you. That's a thing i know this morning my friend and i when we came here we saw a guy on his bicycle an old guy it must have been 70 right just riding up the hill on the bicycle it wasn't easy and he's smiling to us and he's he's whistling who's and i told her who's whistling only someone who's happy is whistling yeah yeah yeah no one's whistling anymore these days do you see people

People walking around the street just whistling to themselves. Yeah, exactly. That's an indication. Everybody saying good morning, good afternoon, may you go well. It's so nice. It was so nice. So hold on. Okay.

Well, I've got so many things to ask you, but let's go back to one thing that you said about medium of exchange and unit of account. That's how you see Bitcoin. Can you give me your view on Bitcoin as a store of value versus medium of exchange here in el salvador or in general in places where people are poorer or don't have big savings so how how does bitcoin what does bitcoin stand for for for them and i know it's very different than if you have savings and you want to you want to preserve your wealth you want to come to bitcoin for hedging which is why i came i had savings i worked for 20 years and i saved money and i have

a child and i do i want to make sure that that that money serves him when he grows up so i came for the hedging right and i wanted and i'm looking at bitcoin as a store of value first and foremost but then i haven't i almost didn't use my u.s dollars in this trip at all because i'm using my bitcoin as a medium of exchange as well everywhere so yes i think um maybe one mistake that sometimes we do once you are like full bitcoin maxi if you want to call it that way especially as an educator as well uh is trying we know bitcoin is amazing and all of this people don't know people need to solve a problem for them in order for them to at least give it a chance give it a try and for example here in el sante it's solved for the people that you know they

don't have a bank account so they don't have uh they're not gonna accept credit cards either for a coconut of one dollar if you're just gonna pay that they don't have bank accounts because they don't have enough money they don't have a yes i mean bank accounts you know i don't have the percentage i should look up what is the the unbanked people but it's definitely high it's never been a super normal bank accounts you have it until you either you have a job so they pay you through the bank account even my dad my dad how old is he 64 has never had a bank account so he grew up in the you know like it was checks so then it was cash and then for so many years he got used to it and then he worked on his own so he always received cash okay um so it's a it's doable you

know it's a very still cash society okay until recent years that you know now it's a little bit more debits and credit cards yeah and digital and transfers they still throw like if he's getting a transfer for a job he said let's do my account it's like i'm gonna deposit he doesn't even bother he doesn't even want to bother to okay to open a bank account okay and so that's why um so it's both the mentality and the fact that people don't have enough don't have enough money to put in yeah exactly you need 20 at least to open a bank account and then why would you like what are 20 these days yeah you just receive i'll give it to another entity that will take some of that little money that i have yeah okay yeah exactly like little money and in and we haven't even had

like really bad bank runs situation here there's been some in guatemala where you know it goes broke a few a few months ago last year one of the main banks here was having troubles um with his online stuff like you know you couldn't access to your online bank account or even the atms and i I was really scared because I started to see the lines of people trying to withdraw the cash. And I was like, if this continues happening, it was really bad. Like he was one of the main banks of El Salvador. And if they don't fix that, people is going to freak out. My mom did.

My mom had his gun and he took it out of it, like all of it. And I was like, we shouldn't know. But I understand her fear. I said, this is not working. I need to withdraw my money. And that's when I also told her, you see, I have Bitcoin. and they started saving. They save more in Bitcoin than fiat these days.

Good. And so, but at the same time, I do see it as a sort of value. Absolutely. I save all that I can, all that I can afford that's going to be my savings goes to Bitcoin.

Keep a little bit just like emergency so I don't feel like I have to withdraw. But I think it's at the end is financial education as well, like financial, not just Bitcoin, but like financial. You need to know how much

of your paychecks for savings for this and for the other. So you don't feel like crazy about also, oh, I didn't buy enough Bitcoin. No, you're just buying what you can afford and that's it. But here, how am I going to get someone into Bitcoin if I don't ask them to accept or if they don't ask them, do you take Bitcoin? Do you accept payment to Bitcoin? So at least to start the conversation, right?

To start the conversation. And that's why for me, it's very important that it's a medium of exchange. I understand that's a privilege for living in El Salvador because we have Bitcoin as a legal tender. Absolutely. That's not the reality everywhere and no judgment. But here, yeah, I can pay my groceries with Bitcoin. I can pay my electric bill, everything. So then why not? To prove, I mean, we're trying to move on from these words. So we need proof and this is the proof. Bitcoin works as money. You accept me Bitcoin, then I pay you for whatever you want. And that is, imagine in which country you can go buy a house and in 10 minutes, internationally, because with wire and everything, it takes three days for you to make a transaction.

And here in 10 minutes, your money is there. The house is yours. Like, that's it. And then I'm improving Bitcoin as a unit of account. I'm learning. But in my first Bitcoin, we have a Bitcoin-only policy. We only pay, you know. So if we receive donations in Bitcoin, they stay in Bitcoin.

We don't change it to fiat, like volatility or everything. No, we want to make sure that we prove that a new world is possible. So, of course, it's tricky and it's challenging. And I'm not the expert, Roberto or Treasury is, to have a balance sheet on Bitcoin. I get paid my salary. We paid all salaries on Bitcoin. So there are people starting to understand. And even the newbies, it's tricky because when they are not Bitcoiners and then if there

is new people that we've hired for a role that, you know, it's not necessarily a teacher is like, oh, but I'm going to get paid in Bitcoin. How does that work? How am I going to pay my rent? And then so we take them through that. And it's better to have patience and help someone because if you help one well, he's going to help another one well, because you didn't try to just send the net and just catch as many feeds that you can.

So just try to be patient with the people that is in front of you and make them understand. And then they're going to figure it out more on their own. So that's why that's the next challenge, right? Like to see it as a unit account is tricky. How do you have a hold accounting on Bitcoin? But we're there. So we're making it because I've seen it for the last year. I was like, OK, yeah, this is also possible.

Does that mean that also salaries will be denominated in Bitcoin or they'll be denominated in dollars and then converted to Bitcoin? For now, it has to be dollars and Bitcoin, because if we will do SATs, then, you know, I mean, sometimes right now we would get more, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That would be a good deal. I wouldn't care if it was these SATs from 22 years ago, the same amount of SATs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So right now it's still dollars. Yeah, right now it's still dollars in the sense of, let's say, your salary is $500 a month. You just get what it is in Bitcoin at that month. So that's what we have. But then everything else, yeah, we go with, if we need to, you know, book a venue, they need to accept Bitcoin. If I booked the decorations for the graduation, they need to accept my Bitcoin. If we book a house for a team meeting and retreat, they need to accept Bitcoin. just to the publisher for the books yes exactly yeah exactly yes if we the printer bitcoin

everything it's like as long as they accept bitcoin so we keep it you know rolling like everybody's using it amazing okay and a question about the wallets because okay so let me start with a little story so i spent a few nights at a house when i got here and there was a local family living in the house taking care of the house and they we obviously the first thing we did was ask them if they accept bitcoin it's not bitcoin for the payment for the house but just you know we wanted to tip them they were working the whole day and they said no we don't really accept it and it's here in the beach area right um it doesn't work very well so we asked them okay what wallet to use they said well we we tried with chivo it didn't work very well and they said

it's government money so we don't really like government that much we don't want to work with government money they completely confused bitcoin with like government yeah yeah because they thought that if it's if it's chivo if it's like a wallet from the state it means that your money is controlled by the state so they really had no clue that that was not so obviously the guys there sat there and gave them an orange pill in in spanish because i don't speak spanish they did a good job they opened um world of satoshi straight away started tipping the lady and he sat with her and helped her figure out a five-year plan of how they can become rich within five years with all the homes that they are taking care of for other people and the lady got it and since then like

every day we saw her we were tipping her in sats and she was very happy amazing yes but then if do people have this perception here that the chivo is a government money hence this is controlled by the state hence it's not in their hands they don't even know what it means they don't obviously they don't know what self-custody means so how let me know how does it work here did i just see one rare example or is this the the mainstream yeah opinion no that's that's more normal than than you think not just here in el sante it's even more outside like here almost everybody sort of knows the difference because become beach the guys are here they've tried to teach the community so but outside like in the city and areas where bitcoin hasn't been you know this is probably

not going to happen in bitcoin berlin for example people already knows yes go to a town where it's still a little foreign that was one of i will say a negative in a sense i mean there's possessive negatives but when we didn't know about anything when when the bitcoin law came into effect i was like el salvador does not anything about bitcoin like people we don't know i wouldn't have known and it got political so it got political so either you like the president you like bitcoin if you don't like the person you don't like bitcoin we've been into rural areas yeah there's a political figure in front of bitcoin exactly so then and especially when you are a very like when you are more uh like intense and you know like strong to your opinions the ones that don't like to

recognize when something is good enough just for the sake of not changing your mind it's even hearted because I can explain everything how Bitcoin works and I know that I'm going to be very clear and I know that this is how I will get it. But just because you don't like the president, you're still not going to like Bitcoin. So that's even hearted. But that doesn't happen often. Like as long as people realize that it's actually money that is decentralized, that is not controlled by any government, by any person, it's like, oh, okay, fine. And how? Like this. Okay, nice. Okay, I get it. They don't need to know all the technical parts.

Yeah, sure. Just the basics. And people normally don't even care. Like, it's just, okay, as long as you're this and this is it. And they watch a little video in five minutes. Okay, yeah, yeah. Like, sort of, I sort of, sort of believe you, right? And then when they see it in action, like, they see, I'm like, see, I've sent you.

They have stats and then they grow. Yeah. And I'm like, I sent you. Who knows this? Who knows that I just paid you? I give you a tip in stats. And they go, nobody. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, still, it takes time. But yeah, this is a very, this is not uncommon. We've been in very like north rural areas. We have a partnership with the guys at Bitcoin Beach, the Minister of Education and Miprimer Bitcoin to teach the public school system teachers. And so then we do visits to their schools. And yeah, some of them have even think, they thought not anymore, but they were thinking that Yves Bukele was the inventor of Bitcoin. So that's how, like, you know, we definitely, and when they, the teachers told me, it wasn't me, but when they told me. Satoshi!

Satoshi! He's too young to be Satoshi. Well, he is Satoshi. We're all Satoshi. Yeah, we are all. Okay, that's a good one. That was, so I was like, okay, so that's the extent. And then you work with your context.

Again, it's a learning curve from all aspects, right? like my role as a director of education is make sure that our programs is useful and as accessible for everybody around the world. But it's tricky. Like the El Salvador context is tricky. Yes. But it's, I mean, it makes it fun. It makes your job really fun.

Of course. Yeah. So you're doing something that, well, I don't know anyone else that that's their job, that that's what they do. They like for their job, they educate educators to educate other people. other people about this revolutionary tool that's amazing to me that's basically the foundation that's why I am into Bitcoin education whatever it is you know it's the foundation for everybody to feel that empowerment that comes with more opportunities and more options and it just gives

you this a new way to see a new life that it's possible from your reality I know I mean a lot of people thinks that they're going to put a hundred dollars in bitcoin right now and tomorrow they're going to be millionaires even the millionaires in bitcoin right now they had to wait 15 years so it's like we teach them then low time preference it's like yeah but even them how long did they think that they had to wait um when when it's like regular right money i'm not talking about black rock or anybody um so that's that's normal but i think little by little that's going to start to to shift well that's our role right like that's our mission here too um and it's great one thing that i definitely love about this bitcoin community is that our collaboration we're

not just a community or collaboration when we meant it it's honest and it's real um i see all bitcoin educators were from as allies um we are stronger together and that's that's not a comment that you would hear in Fiat, like you're not stronger together with your competition. And it's great that we have competition because it makes us thrive and better. It's like, okay, they're doing this.

That's nice. What can we do then? Like, and to just, that's why we want to also stay as an introductory Bitcoin education. There are so many more projects happening and working people that is more knowledgeable than we are.

So we're like, okay, so now you can go to them and next one and next one because you trust them. So you're like, okay, no, they're doing well. I'm going to send them. You want to go to BTC sessions.

Exactly. You go to BTC sessions. We have, you know, coding programs here too, like Total Goals, Donation, Coupa Plus. And not everybody's interested in the technical side of Bitcoin either. So that's why I think it's amazing what, you know, you are creating and other women in the space are creating because they show you that you don't have to be just such a technical person to work in Bitcoin and to just, you know, raise your voice and do your part. but see yeah that was a long response no that's a great response can you give me an example of something you've seen happen with children here thanks to bitcoin or thanks to the work you do at my premier bitcoin yeah let me think we have we have a few good ones maybe not with the children

but one that is very that is that it's good that we still use he's one of our teachers he is a minister like he's a pastor he's christian and he for many years you know it's been one of these people that just by default doesn't like the government and when he heard you know about bitcoin this is a scam he have shown me on his facebook like the old old post i was like this is what i would post before like oh haha look at you know the chivo wallet how they're controlling your bitcoin that's corruption that's laundering money and when he heard that we had an open enrollment at the the government some of the governor's office not everywhere but we have good relationship with some of them so they lend us the space yeah give up bitcoin class here

and he went just to have more arguments to fight about bitcoin you know it's like okay now i'm gonna learn what these people is teaching and i'm gonna go and he's one of our teachers now you know he's one of our most passionate teachers now so that's a good one i always like it he he loves more his job in the community you know he's a minister he's from the east part of the country which is a little bit definitely more underdeveloped than living in the city I mean he likes to do games and not get into the more technical but works with children so I can see you know us as an adult we have to unlearn certain a lot of the Viet mentality and processes and stuff that we've gone through our life kids are not going to have that problem they

They use the Tanki cards. They use the Blink app, which is very easy. They go and, especially these days, these kids, they teach me how to work the phone. Oh, yeah. So for them, that's a piece of cake. And I'm so happy to see them like they are going to create. That's the low time preference in education as well. You know, that's not the shiny that you see from confidence.

That's the wave that we're going to see in a few years, the next generation of all these kids learning about money as such at your age so amazing it gives me the chills just to think about it yeah because all these kids will come in and go shut up you oldies you don't understand anything yeah let us show you how it's done yes exactly you did this and this mistake with me i'm not gonna do the same i'm gonna i'm gonna do better so those are good examples we're working with lina actually on the development of a uh she'll be here on friday we'll have a chat yeah on a workbook because she has the company and you know little holder that are these um comics and things like huge for kids we have the other part of the content of teach kids from second third or fourth

five sixth grade about money and bitcoin and a progression progression throughout the year so the first year of course is very easy what's money what's parted in what gives money it's so funny that you're saying it's so easy like you ask your grandfather or your mom what is money they don't know but you're doing with second grade third grade fourth grade that's the easy part right yeah yeah but that's what's amazing that we've been deprived of that education all of our lives because someone has the interest of us not knowing how it works but here we are defying this probable path just by bringing that education into their lives absolutely that's the change that's when i see you know your kid tell me whatever you want about the government and

criticizes i'm not blind i mean i like the fact that i can still criticize if something i don't like happens but no government in any country is thinking about teaching money and decentralization and value and low time preference high time preference to young kids exactly so that's where my okay say whatever you want about the minister he's putting that in the schools so word exactly tells you more than action like actions tells you more than words um and it excites me when i think sometimes i take it for granted what i do i mean a little bit but then i'm out of a meeting i'm like this is huge like we never learn about this we're giving these kids and massive opportunities.

They're going to decide what to do. We don't have to make them in a cage. This is what you have to learn. And it's still, right? There's still going to be banks and stuff around that they're going to have to learn, but at least they have that other information. And you're going to learn about value

and time preference and saving. So I would vote for a minister of education that is doing that. I will vote for someone that is trying to because that's not in the agenda of a lot of countries. That's not in the agenda of power and greed and control. It's the opposite of it. And that's what Stacey was saying in Nashville on stage,

which I tweeted at the time because I was there watching her. And it is so simple, yet it's so profound that people don't stop to think about it. A politician, no matter what you think about politicians, And I'm not a fan, but a politician that actually decides to introduce to his country a tool that liberates people from control and pushes more sovereignty onto their hands is a leader that is worth looking at or paying attention to or following. yeah because by doing what he's doing he's actually releasing control from the central structure that was built as a government or or a political party or whatever and giving it back to the people he's doing that just by virtue of encouraging people to hold bitcoin if they take

self-sovereignty of their bitcoin they are sovereign yeah they have full autonomy over their their wealth and their future and here's a politician that tells people go ahead you have the option to choose that and do that yes and that is phenomenal i agree i agreed because um and that and how i see it as well you know we we're a non-profit non-governmental education uh organization based in el salvador which makes it easier but at the same time like if they wouldn't want if they would want to control even that part they will tell us no because we're independent and there is a reason why we're independent we want to prove and we don't receive any funding from the government but i've thought about it i was like if they really want don't want us for sure they

if what if they the government really didn't want us to teach the people they would easily say hey no we got this we don't need you because you know we want are the ones that want to put uh the information in the books that these kids are going to learn and they are just using the resources that they can yeah um and they came over and said we're happy to collaborate yeah exactly so it's again like you know at least say what you what you want to say about them and the people in power but at least they gave you the awareness of bitcoin there is no one single salvadoran now that is not aware of the word Bitcoin. And that's a huge step.

At least I already know. So find out. They'd rather make you believe that it's for money laundry than put it in there and put it in an education. 100%. Or like the vice president or vice governor of the Central Bank of Israel said in a recent paper, no article it was he said no satoshi nakamoto is going to take care of your money it's going to be

the central bank that you love and trust and appreciate yeah it's like no don't worry no anonymous someone that you don't know is going to take care of your thing it's going to be us that you trust and love and it's like seriously yeah seriously and look how desperate they are that they have to they feel threatened that they have to shame something else that they're afraid of because they know they're losing control so it's like don't worry it's us that you trust and love yeah and not this anonymous satoshi nakamoto which actually provides you the freedom that you yeah that you need because they're afraid they're trying to to course yeah they're afraid of course So what a difference in openness and willingness to actually introduce change, positive change to life here versus many, most other countries around the world still.

Now, I really think that from a macro perspective, the U.S. has an opportunity to change a lot of that. if it starts adopting Bitcoin on the reserves or as part of its growth strategy that would be or at least debt reduction strategy that could be really, really interesting because I think most of the countries around the world will follow suit to some degree and then I think you guys are going to be super busy

because everyone is going to come knocking on your door saying, okay, we have to do this because the EU is doing it and they kind of force us So can you give us some knowledge and information? So you may start to see a lot of delegations of foreign governments or, you know, people related to implementing these kind of policies here visiting to learn from you guys. Absolutely. And we're actually seeing it. We've had calls only in the last two weeks with universities or institutions, education institutions that are independent from Colombia, from Honduras.

I was like, in the on, I was like, we found you guys in the internet. Can you help us out? Universities? We've seen what you've done. Yeah. One was a university, like a higher, it wasn't a university, but it was like higher education. Yeah. Like academy that teach, you know, like other skills and programming and things like that.

They came to learn. Yeah. They're having calls. I'm like, we're going to go to El Salvador. And we're like, we just have more work than we actually have the capacity for. Let's go. Yes. This is a time.

That's why I like this morning. I was like, what a time to be alive. We don't have time to be hanging out here at the beach, but working, having these calls of, okay, this is our goal. We want to educate 21,000 people next year. And I'm like, is that going to be in person or is it going to be online? No, we have the online. We're working on the LMS. The bestest problems in the world.

Yes. That is so amazing. It is. It is. It is good. And we just want to share this enthusiasm with everyone. Like, this is not fake. Like we really love it and we would like to have as many people as we can on board with the skills that you have because we need it.

Like we're going to, you're going to feel happier. You're going to feel more fulfilled. Yes, there is certain tiredness. I mean, we're still humans, but I don't know. I feel tired, but I don't feel burnout. I'm tired, but I'm like, yeah, after the conferences and I'm sure you too, I needed a little bit time to disconnect. not so many stimulation but just gives you

that relaxed time to think and process okay what have been through where are we going where are we going these connections were good

but you don't feel like oh I was there and I was just so tired no it's fantastic it's energizing energizing that's the word it's energizing

it's good energy and it's uplifting but it's also because the people like the community they actually they yes

they lift you up there is nothing more important than to be with someone that you know push you to be better because they know that you can be better um in a healthy way i mean not in like the whipped way so yeah not in the carrots and sticks i know yeah okay reina um to close off

what is your message of hope to people as someone that has gone through so much in your life i've seen so many different stages and states of your country and the people around you what gives you hope and what hope can you give other people well what gives me hope is to have a purpose to be honest find out what it is so you said it the other day like talked do that internal work for sure i i believe that bitcoin feels more magical but when you also know yourself when you also know yourself of what it is if we want to talk about okay getting to be could educate yourself again don't trust what we say don't trust the government don't trust verify it's just as easy as that that's what i try here different uh views here different perspectives and different

don't hear everything about el salvador because it's gonna sound better like here from the people that is actually creating a change like in africa i have friends in indonesia um bitcoin is illegal there and if you see that these people is fighting for something that looks so hard there must be a why there must be a why why we're trying to do this i mean we're not that crazy i know that sometimes it does feel like a little bit like a cult but it's a nice one it's a decentralized one everybody does what they want um you don't like be confined we still like you like just just just be a nice person uh educate yourself as much as you can and above all be kind be kind be kind with the knowledge that you have it's not about accumulating it's about sharing

that would be my message like whatever the little that you learned share it with someone it gives so much empowerment to know that you made you know useful like you made yourself useful one day absolutely you are off service of other people 100 yeah 100 wonderful reina thank you so much this has been an amazing amazing conversation you see you were nervous before are you nervous now I was just like, oh my God, we could go at this for hours. Like, yes, we can go on for hours. This is awesome. Where can people follow you?

Yeah. So I have, well, Twitter, right? Like normally Twitter. I still don't know what's going to be the easiest way in the future to share our nostril. We need a better way. We need a better way. No, but just your name. But my name is Reina.

Yeah, Reina with a Y, chicas, on Twitter, number two. our organization is myfirstbitcoin underscore on twitter myfirstbitcoin.io on our website join us if anybody wants to be a volunteer also we have a forum there on the website on the website yeah like contribute with us normally we all start a little bit as volunteers and then we move on into paid stuff if anybody wants it but it's a nice way to get your feet on and see if you like it if you don't like it because it's very tricky sometimes working for something that's never done before so i know it takes time it takes time for you to adjust yourself but i can my advice is that always give it a try it's an amazing journey do you have uh um i forget the word not adolescence

young people why did i forget the word instagram no no no no no no i mean can young people volunteer with you um teenagers oh that was the word that you were like forgetting uh so far nobody has normally they do only if it's you know like an in-person like an unconfident stuff and so you know we have this space for beacon for teenagers then yeah uh there is a tricky stuff you know with on on their on their age correct yeah we're working yeah yeah and it has to be you know like permissions and approvals from the parents if you're an under 18 and you want to do it but Your parents don't give you permission. I'm sorry.

We can't yet. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. But if, you know, your parents are beckoning and you want to help, absolutely. Yeah. Come along. And you guys have meetups, community events?

What do you do on a regular basis? So in El Salvador, we have, so there is a monthly meetup every last Thursday of every month, except for December. That's the only one that we don't do because it's the Christmas time. But all year round, always last Thursday of every month at any venue in San Salvador. We run about two or three because our goal is that more businesses accept Bitcoin. So we go in, we tell them you're going to have 50 Bitcoiners here that are going to spend on a Thursday night if you accept Bitcoin. And then that's how we go. Emilio or a planner event is great.

It goes to the businesses. It's like, I want to have a clue. So that's the communities. We have an open house. We have an office house in San Salvador, in Escalon. If you look at Google, that's where the address, just look for Mi Primer Bitcoin. And Google, it says the address and the house is like sort of a house office classroom. And every Tuesday, you can go in the afternoon, one to six, because it serves as an office.

Open hours. Open hours, yeah. I mean, you can go technically anytime, but sometimes the team is working, so they might not give you time. That's the time that you can go, ask any questions, check our merch, check the books if you want to get it if you don't want to buy it it's free on our website at the pdf become diploma we're trying to now that launch it an introductory class we're gonna put the guide for it so if you want to teach it go for it all our programs and resources are open source and are free on

our github which you can find through the website awesome awesome awesome and you are too thank you so much for this i appreciate it thank you yeah it was fun thank you fred pleasure