You're The Voice | by Efrat Fenigson - Unapologetically Yourself: The Courage to Speak & Be Different - Zuby | Ep. 111

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

My guest today is Zuby, a British-Nigerian rapper, author, podcaster, and public speaker, raised in Saudi Arabia and known for building an independent career outside traditional gatekeepers. We sit down in El Salvador’s National Palace to talk about why money doesn’t create courage, it only amplifies the character you already have, and why simply telling obvious truths has somehow become “brave” in modern society. Zuby reflects on speaking out during COVID-era, the incentives that keep public figures silent, and how courage is a muscle that either grows through use or atrophies through avoidance. We also explore the monetary crossroads ahead: Bitcoin as self-sovereign digital money vs. CBDCs as programmable control, the coming decentralization of states and culture, and why most people struggle to engage with money at all. Zuby argues that learning Bitcoin is one of the best time-ROIs you can make, and makes the case for a simple first step: get off zero. Finally, we go deeper into faith, the “black pill” trap, and why hope, meaning, and urgency come from remembering we don’t live forever.→ Please like, comment, share & follow - to help me beat the suppressing big tech algorithms & gov. censorship. Thank you!-- SPONSORS --→ Get your TREZOR wallet & accessories, with a 5% discount, using my code at checkout (get my discount code from the episode - yep, you’ll have to watch it): https://affil.trezor.io/SHUn→ Have you tried mining bitcoin? Stack sats directly to your wallet while saving on taxes with Abundant Mines: https://AbundantMines.com/Efrat – AFFILIATES –→ Get 10% off on Augmented NAC to detox Spike protein, with the code YCXKQDK2 via this link: https://store.augmentednac.com/?via=efrat (Note, this is not medical advice and you should consult your MD)→ Be good to your eyes & health, and get the Daylight tablet - a healthier, more human-friendly computer, with zero flicker and zero blue light, by design. Thank me later ;-) https://bit.ly/Efrat_daylight → Get a second citizenship and a plan B to relocate to another country with Expat Money, leave your details for a follow up: https://expatmoney.com/efrat → Watch “New Totalitarian Order” conference with Prof. Mattias Desmet & Efrat - code EFRAT for 10% off: https://efenigson.gumroad.com/l/desmet_efrat → Join me in any of these upcoming events: https://www.efrat.blog/p/upcoming-events -- LINKS –Zuby’s Twitter: https://x.com/ZubyMusic Zuby’s Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/zubymusic Zuby’s episode with Jack Mallers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zg1ydyAE8k Efrat's Twitter: https://twitter.com/efenigsonEfrat's Channels: https://linktr.ee/efenigsonWatch/listen on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/yourethevoiceSupport Efrat's work: ⁠https://bit.ly/zap_efrat -- CHAPTERS –00:00 - Coming Up…01:42 - Introducing Zuby: A Multi-Talented Personality04:42 - Courage, Wealth, and Speaking Out11:22 - Ad Break - Trezor & Abundant Mines18:22 - The Craziness of Covid21:42 - The Godly Spark30:35 - Creating An Independent Career37:15 - The Future of Money & Bitcoin50:26 - Resistance to Change & Learning About Money59:16 - How Zuby Shows “Fix The Money Fix The World”?1:19:16 - Spiritual Awakening & Faith1:30:06 - Inspiration & Hope

It's March 2020, all of these people are afraid of COVID. I'm afraid of government overreach. I'm afraid of what could happen in the future if you give them this power. Something that was supposed to be objective has now become subjective and we have no standards for this. Like, you know, what are the long-term consequences of that? If you can get people to believe that this table is round,

this is a circle, then we're in trouble. What else can you convince them of? People are struggling. Even in the West, even in developed countries, people are struggling. Things are really getting expensive. I remember how much things used to cost 10 years ago compared to now.

Like inflation is real. I have a general belief that most technologies typically has the power to both liberate and to enslave. It's kind of crazy to think like already owning a whole Bitcoin is already completely out of the reach of the majority of the population. Spending a few hours researching and learning about Bitcoin is one of the best ROIs

you will ever in your life have on your time. If you care about humanity, then I think you should care about Bitcoin. I don't believe that money changes people's character. I think that money is an amplifier. I think it makes you more of what you already are and it enables certain behaviors and actions. But I don't think money fundamentally changes

who somebody is. Cowardice and courage are both habits as well. And I think that's something people don't realize. it's not simply hardwired into your personality it's also habits and the more you do something the more you reinforce it hello and welcome to another episode of your the voice this time from el salvador san salvador we are at the national palace i am in the most beautiful place i've ever had the opportunity to record an episode for you and it's called the blue room and this used to be the assembly uh once upon a time there were 21 parliament members or congress

members sitting in this room behind us and this is what we're recording the episode for you today so thanks for being with me i am more than honored to have a person that i've been following for a a long long time on the internet but now it's in real life Zuby how are you blessed and highly favored as always thank you so much for being so spontaneous and so courageous and beautiful to do this with me happy to be here looking forward to it amazing so um you know what I'll start with a quick bio because I normally do that so that I don't think anyone doesn't know you but let's say some of my audience may not know you i want to make sure they do so zuby is a british nigerian rapper author podcaster and public speaker raised in saudi arabia yeah is that correct

after being born in luton born in luton in luton in in the uk england uh he studied computer science at university that was a an interesting fun fact for me before launching an independent music career and and he has self-released multiple albums and eps achieved tens of thousands of album sales independently created a merchandise line built a follower of over 2 million on social media is it 2 million yeah more amazing and his work extends beyond music into fitness coaching authorship your podcast called real talk with zuby which features guests across cultures tech and politics and i've now just learned that you had more than 400 episodes once a week without failing so that's incredible well done thank you um and i think you're well noted for your ethos

of self-reliance authenticity and independent entrepreneurship and critical thinking you have basically built your platform uh without any major label backing and you're like a self-made person and I love that because I'm all for personal sovereignty and I think that's why you resonate with me so much and definitely with freedom fighters and truth seekers around the world. So I just want to first start by saying thank you for being one of those super important voices

in the last four or five years that I've been following you for doing what you're doing because as we just talked about and we'll get to that in a second, not many people did that. Yeah. Well, I'm honored. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for caring. And thank you for the kind introduction. I appreciate it. So just before we hit record, we started talking about the concept of a few money, right? And normally where I come from, I know the concept of a few money

as having Bitcoin, and then you really don't need to care much about worries in life and things in life. But you were looking at it from a different angle. Mostly people affiliate FU money for wealthy people that have a lot of wealth and assets, and now they don't have to work anymore or care about what people think about them or things like that. If that was the case, we would have seen more courageous voices out there when we talk about wealthy individuals or famous people and things like that. Why is this not the case? What's your take on this? I think it's not the case because I don't believe that money changes people's character I think the money is an amplifier I think it makes you more of what you already are

and it enables certain behaviors and actions but I don't think money fundamentally changes who somebody is if someone is um poor or of you know average means and they're a generous person and they come into a lot of wealth or they earn a lot of money then they'll still be typically a generous person they'll just have more to be generous with if someone was super like if someone was super stingy very very tight with their money and uh selfish just in general and then they come into a lot of wealth they're not going to suddenly become super generous right they'll still just be stingy but they'll have more to hoard and uh they'll have more to give away but they still won't wouldn't want to to give it away um similarly if someone is courageous you don't

need courage and wealth are not correlated you don't need to be a wealthy person to be courageous like it doesn't even make sense right yeah um so if you're a coward and you get rich cool you're a rich coward if you were already courageous if you're already a brave person and you gain more wealth then yeah you you already were brave now perhaps the wealth can protect and insulate you to from certain consequences to a certain degree um but it just fundamentally doesn't change your character which is i think there are a lot of people who would like to believe that oh if i just had this much or i just earned this much or this much then i would be um a more virtuous person in some way shape or form i mean courage is a virtue

and i think people like to think oh well i can't say anything on this or i can't do anything here or here because like you know i can't um i can't afford to you know maybe if i had you know more money than i'd be more but it's just it's a coke it's not real and we know it's not real because we've seen it in real life and we see in real life that there's not like some huge positive correlation between people having money or being rich or wealthy and being particularly bold and outspoken or courageous in any type of way even if we're just talking about words we we don't see it so it's yeah it's just it's not real um i think people would like to think it is there's an excuse for their own um cowardice at certain times right but yeah it's not real fu character exists and

brave people exist and cowardice exists and we can all exhibit this in different ways at different times um but yeah i think it's i think it's that simple really i agree with you and we got to that because we mentioned people like ricardo salinas or or musk or sailor like people that do have a lot but we're we're and are willing to challenge the status quo and to talk about the reality as it is today and mention what is wrong with it and what's a scam and what's a fraud and what doesn't work and that takes balls and it doesn't matter how much money you have in the bank i think that it actually becomes harder the more wealth you have because you have more to risk yes and And there were very few people during COVID, for example, that spoke about the horrendous things that were happening because they were too conscious about what's going to happen to their status or their reputation or their, I don't know, fan base.

We have a lot of obvious examples, especially in the past decade. The pandemic or scandemic is a huge one. But even prior to that, I mean, if I think of one of the first things that happened that like made me go viral and put me on the radar of millions of people, it was back in the beginning of 2019 when I identified as a woman and I broke the British women's deadlift record. And that went crazy viral. And at that time, if you go back to the beginning of 2019, very, very few people were willing to address that issue. right so we're you're literally living in a world from 2015 onwards if you live in the west where people are literally pretending a man can be a woman or a woman can be a man and you can just say whatever and people are just going along with this gigantic lie right this shouldn't even

be like politicized it's not a political it's just a matter of biology you're a woman i'm a man i can't magically turn into a woman you can't magically turn into a man just by like it's complete nonsense it's complete nonsense but for years the vast majority of people are either saying this or playing along so people know it's nonsense people know it's not true but they're pretending it's true because they don't want to be called a name they don't want to be cancelled they don't want to be labeled whatever it is um and at that time i'm not the only person but i was one of the few people with any type of like sort of platform or prominence who was willing to just say what it is and obviously in my case it resulted in a viral moment which led to a ton

of opportunities but even on that particular issue which is something that's not even a matter of opinion it's just a matter of like objective of objective reality and you just see how hesitant and cowardly some people have been and still continue to be on something like that so of course they're not going to speak up when the governments are trying to lock people in their houses and force masks on people and force vaxes on people and what because look cowardice and courage are both habits as well and i think that's something people don't realize it's not simply hardwired into your personality it's also habits and the more you do something the more you reinforce it you're the voice is brought to you by trezor the original bitcoin hardware wallet company

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for my audience. Learn more on AbundantMinds.com. So if every time there is a difficult or a challenging or a scary situation you default to cowardice yeah then it gets harder and harder and harder to be brave when life calls you to be brave in any sort of way i'm not even talking about you having to like a situation where you might have to risk your life right it could just be saying no when you need to say no it could be sticking up for someone or a principal or something when the time calls and if you have not exercised that muscle it atrophies whereas if you naturally default to just being honest telling telling the truth sticking to your principles um then you you naturally default to that so over the past seven years in particular i mean i've had so many people

explicitly thank me for my courage thank you for being brave thank you for cursing and i'm not being um i'm not trying to be like falsely modest here but i i have to take it as a compliment but sometimes it also annoys me a little i take it as a compliment because cool like it's a good thing to be brave and courageous and right thanks i i guess i am to some degree i think i know what you're gonna say and i love it go on yeah yeah it bothers me because i want you to be like i want you guys that they're telling me that yeah but like the bar i feel like the bar is so low yeah because when i think of oh i know i think of courage when i think of bravery um of course people can be brave in their words right so i don't want to downplay the importance of like

speaking up when it's difficult or challenging uh a certain status quo or something that's wrong in a difficult time that is genuinely courageous but when i think of courage i mean i i think of you know all through human history when your men have been going to war or people have been like fighting i don't know firemen running into burning buildings police officers working in certain situations where they're dealing with like violent crime when you like your life is at risk right people are trying to bomb you blow you up kill you slash you with a sword whatever and you're still there you know soldiers landing at d-day in normandy i'm like wow okay that's brave that's courageous like you know there's my probability of surviving this is like five percent but i'm

gonna go out there and like do it well now right do it am i that brave um i guess under certain circumstances i can imagine scenarios where yeah i'll take that risk um but it's very very narrow all right there aren't a lot of things where i'd be like hey there's a 90 chance this is gonna kill you but like go do i'd be like gosh like that's that's kind of rough um but if it's just words if it's just speaking especially if it's something that is just so obvious yeah if it's something that's just true it's just real it's not even a matter of opinion um then yeah that that kind of bothers me when i'm just like man this this the societal bar because i see that as a moral duty yes you're absolutely right the bar is way too low humanity this is a signal for

the state of humanity's consciousness these days it is in such a low place that just speaking truth became brave yes i agree with you like why is that brave i'm just speaking truth that should be the default that should be the normal status quo everyone that doesn't do that should be called another name but i don't know if i should be called brave i sh i am just doing my moral duty as a human being on this planet that wants a better future for my son right this is like completely normal i totally agree with you and obviously i'm not upset with people who are saying that we are living in times where it became really difficult to voice your opinion or your view yeah i do i do understand it i'm i'm not um under any sort of illusion or confusion

as to why more people don't speak up in certain scenarios but i think some of it is also you know people thinking too short term yeah because i think oftentimes people think of the sort of potential often imaginary short-term consequences but they don't weigh it up against the long-term consequences of inaction or silence right so with many things it's typically better to with almost any problem that exists it's better to it's better and easier to deal with it early rather than late yeah right doesn't matter whether it's an illness or an injury or it's a relationship problem or it's a financial debt issue whatever it's it's easier to deal with it early on and if you think long term especially if you even think multi-generationally then it changes it changes

the math right so this is really how i felt like when the all the covid stuff really started kicking off the beginning of 2020 like february march 2020 when the government started to you know want lock lock people in their houses and wanted to like do all these mandates and just basically strip away all of people's basic freedoms and civil liberties which i had assumed at least in the west that were like a given and people were like wanting the government to do that and giving it away i very quickly was just like wait no this is not like this is not right like i have questions here like what's what's going on right the response is going to be worse than the thing you're responding to yep um but you know people were so afraid that that was not a popular it was

not a popular viewpoint right so it kind of puts you in the target of a lot of people but i thought look if this if you allow this like it's it's so weird because that whole time period from 2020 to 2022 even 2023 depending on where somebody was like i i just i knew what i saw it coming like i knew what was going to happen like you remember the whole like two weeks to slow the spread two weeks to flatten the 15 days to flatten the curve right it's just going to be two weeks i was like no it's not if if you if people collectively agree to this then it's going to keep going it's going to keep it's going to keep escalating like it was so obvious to me and next thing you know it's 300 days and then it's 500 days and then 700 days and in some places it went on for you know

approaching a thousand days of lockdowns and mandates and policies and this and this and this and in my opinion none of it was very little of it was ever necessary it wasn't effective it harmed people far more than it did any good even if people disagree with that you should agree that we should have been able to like have that conversation and debate and it shouldn't have just been okay just top down mandated no discussion no room for dissent in fact if you dissent we're gonna like ban you from platforms and we're gonna try to silence you and we're gonna attack you and call you all these names um and you know over time as it as it went on and on i do think people more and more people started to see through the matrix for sure and i think courage is contagious

and people started to see more and more people speaking up and questioning things and it it reached a tipping point yeah where it couldn't have been pushed further i i believe we'd still be locked down and under mandates if certain people had had there had there been no dissents and you know everyone just went with it and the cracks didn't come through like you know we could still be here in 2025 i mean covid is still around isn't it right like it hasn't gone anywhere so how come how come we're all free again now right like couldn't we have done this back in back then right like so i don't know um i don't want to ramble too long but that's why that's my perfect what do you think is that spark you have in you that had you noticed the scam early on in

covet but also you know the gender and all the other stuff that you're seeing and talking about yeah what is this like if if i'm trying to with you together and define this because i you know i feel in my gut yeah like when i see things or when i hear about some things that are happening i i get this feeling this energy that i have to shine light on this i have to show this to the world how would you call this bug this this spark that you have in you i don't know this uh need to show the world what is happening so that they see it yeah and where does it come from i think it comes from god from god right i think it comes from god and i also think i mean it's a commandment as a christian you're supposed to do that you're supposed to cowardice is a sin

yeah people forget that cowardice is a sin if you are a person of faith if you are a christ follower you are supposed to be bold you're supposed to be courageous you're supposed to you know be the salt and light you're supposed to speak about the truth and you know expose the fake and if something is damaging to humanity right like these examples we've used as far as i'm concerned these are things that are very damaging to humanity um there's some things that you know aren't that consequential but i'm like no no these are serious consequential issues um this is like affecting and harming you know millions potentially billions of people in in some of these cases so um yeah i i think it's a calling i mean so i'm sure some of it is just my natural personality

hardware and wiring that i don't you know i wouldn't say i want to i want to i want to take you a bit further okay go ahead on this so and correct me if i'm wrong but there's a point in which it becomes easier when it's not about you anymore when you know when you feel that you are being called to speak about something or to shed light on it or to show something to people and the price you may pay the consequences they don't they they're minimized in comparison to what humanity as you said will gain right so and that's already a larger viewpoint a larger consciousness than it's just about me and then i'm gonna suffer and i'm gonna pay the price and then and then the fear starts

taking over so it almost sounds like at one point it's not about you anymore and then it's easier for you to just um do it again and again again and be there i i think that's true and look i i'm not man that doesn't have fears sure maybe maybe i just fear different things uh-huh okay so it's march 2020 and you know all of these people are afraid of a virus they're afraid of you know getting uh flu-like symptoms they're afraid of covid i'm afraid of government overreach i'm I'm afraid of giving up our most basic civil liberties because there's a virus in the air. I'm afraid of kids and adults being pulled out of schools and universities and people losing their jobs.

I'm afraid of what's going to happen if businesses are shut down indefinitely and the economy tanks. I'm afraid of what happens when everyone's just sitting at home and not working and the government's just printing a ton of money. I'm afraid of what could happen in the future if you give them this power and then next time What if there's you know, oh, there's another illness going around. So like what they're gonna lock everyone in their house again and force Injections on people like so those were my fears So maybe I'm just like my fears are different. I'm afraid of

I'm afraid of what will happen to a society and what kind of world you know our collective future children and grandchildren will grow up in if we seed one of the most basic tenets of reality that men and women exist there is male and there's female everyone who exists was birthed from a woman and we all have mothers no one there's no one on this earth right now or who has ever walked this planet who was birthed from a man and all a sudden we're going to start pretending none of this is true right like i'm i'm concerned of what are the long-term consequences of that type of those types of lies that type of cowardice that's what i'm afraid of i'm not afraid of being called a bigot or

a transphobe because i don't think women can have right pardon to i don't mean to be you know just stating it as it is right like it's not it's not true okay if someone was like if so if there was someone who was trying to convince me convince us all not just convince me convince everyone that this this isn't a perfect rectangle but it's rectangular someone was trying to convince us that this is a circle yeah they're like no this is a circle yeah if you don't say this is a circle you're hateful and you're a bigot and this and that they're trying to insist they're trying to make everyone children adults all of us we've all agreed before no this is rectangular and now all of a sudden out of nowhere no we were trying to force down this so i'm not i'm not super passionate

about geometry okay i don't love you know squares and circle like i'm not super passionate about but i i would fight very hard against that because it's like no this is a this is a lie and it's not just a lie that like look if you want to believe it's a circle go ahead you can believe it's a circle but if you're trying to put in the education system and you're going to attack people who are trying to tell the truth and you're gonna do like what are the long-term consequences of that yeah what are the long-term consequences wait you break that now you've broken mathematics right and now you know it's no something that was supposed to be objective has now become subjective and we have no standards for this like you know what are the long-term consequences of that if

you can get people to believe that this table is round this is a circle then we're in trouble what else can you convince them of and we've seen this before we have historical precedent yeah of what happens when you can make people believe things that are like just objectively absurd it doesn't lead to good places and i don't want to um i don't want to live through that and i think a lot of people don't think deeply enough about these things to understand how those type of of atrocities happen and understand the fact that it can happen again. We're not so far removed from history. No, not at all. In fact, I think we're closer than we've ever been. In a world hypnotized and sleepwalking towards totalitarian control and digital enforcement,

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I hope you find great value in it. Tired of feeling like your freedom and future are fading away? Do you live in a country with growing inflation, crazy housing prices, weird culture, and a chaotic economy? You're not alone. and my friend Mikel Thorpe and his team at Expat Money can help. Mikel is the world's leading expat consultant on a mission to free you from broken systems. He's been an expat for 25 years, lived in nine different countries and has helped hundreds of people with second residencies and passports, offshore banking, international investing and many other essential tools.

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In my music? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was a combination of desire and necessity. I mean, I started rapping when I was 18 years old and I put together my first album when I was 19. And I didn't have money. I didn't have a label. I didn't have like an agent or a manager or anything, it was just me. And so instead of sitting around waiting for some type of handout or some type of permission or verification from the music industry, I was just like, well, I mean, I can make, there's

nothing stopping me. Like I've recorded music. I can record music independently. There are CD pressing facilities. So why don't I just go and get some CDs made? Got my friend to take a photo of me, boom, front cover, pay a graphic designer to do some stuff. So, you know, my first album, Commercial Underground, we put it together and cool.

Like I'm around people. I was in university at the time. So cool. I've got a product. I can sell it to people. So I just started doing that. And as time went on, I got verification and validation that that worked, and a lot of people were enjoying my music.

And so, you know, I don't like waiting for... I don't like waiting for... You bring reality into your life. Yeah, exactly. Manifest it. You know, it's almost a cliché at this time, but you know, you can just do things. You really can. Yeah.

artistically or entrepreneurially if you want to just make something you can you can make it anyone can make a song anyone can make an album anyone can write a book not just write a book you can release a book you can do what you want you can start a podcast you can start a youtube channel like any anyone can do these things whether or not you can do it well that's a different story but you know the the gatekeepers have been gone for the most part for at least two decades um maybe a lot of people haven't realized that yeah and so the internet has opened up a completely different exactly like if you're a creative person you can you can you can just create so i just i realized that early on and so i just i just did it and then once i'd done it once

i knew i could do it again and again and again and did you get offers along the way to to you know recruit you to a label or something nothing serious but by the time that i had gone like full time with my music um it didn't even appeal to me like i i've i've never operated within the music industry like sometimes people ask me about the music industry and i'm like i don't know i'm not in it i don't know the people in it i don't know like i've been in the music business which is like you know me and my fans and not much in between that but um you know i've never been an industry person i've never waited around for oh this person needs to approve me or this person if this person doesn't like my music then i can't have i don't care if there's people out there who like it

cool i'll i'll make it for them and i'll sell it to them same with podcasts same with books same everything i've created everything i've created um i wrote my first book in 2019 and released it you know that sold like well over i don't know the numbers now but certainly over over 12 000 copies completely independently um without even being on amazon like well i've got i've got a social media following i can promote it there and yeah you know people people will buy it and you know my podcast was completely diy and you know it's um made a lot of headway and had many millions of views and downloads now and had some very very big and interesting guests and you can just do it you don't you don't need permission you don't need permission people need to give themselves

permission if you want to do something cool like there are very few things you need permission for you can just just do it just create it if you you have this idea i always talk to people and like i don't know they might be in their 20s their 30s their 40s their 50s and they're like oh you know i really yeah i want to write a book like i've been wanting to write a book for years and i'm like i'm confused i'm looking them confused just do it like do it like who who do you whose permission do you need to write a book like sit sit down at your computer or get pen and paper and write the book i really i've been been wanting to start a youtube channel for eight years like i want to do like do it stop talking like do the thing like just just do it do the thing just just

do it you know like you really can um and it goes it goes beyond creative stuff it goes beyond entrepreneurship of course you know just just with everything and i mean isn't that the i think like particularly in the western world you know people talk so much about like freedom and liberty and what's fascinating about that is i think as you get older and older and you interact with more and more people you realize that um for the most part at least again at least this is true of the west and most developed economically developed countries um you know people are really caged and trapped by themselves yeah they're the ones blocking and limiting and censoring themselves it's not coming from the government or the state or other people in

general it's all it's like up there people lock themselves in this weird cage in their brain and they're like oh i can't do this i can't do that i can't do that i'm not this i'm not that it's like well you can what's stopping you right like what what is stopping you oh i want to get in shape i've been wanting to like you know like excellent is someone stopping you from exercising do it just just just do it and just get started because once you're started you know it's hard to go from zero to one yeah but once you're moving once something has started it's so much easier to just keep it going and as I said before if you've done something once you have proven to yourself and to

others if that matters to you that you can you can do it again if you can do something once you can typically you can typically do it again unless it's like a max bench press or deadlift or something but after a rest you can do it again beautiful I love it okay um let me see I wanted to ask you about Bitcoin because we are at a Bitcoin historical conference right or and this is for people who don't know this is I think the first proper government driven event of Bitcoin that I've ever been to that I've seen and I think this is quite spectacular like the way that the government here embraces bitcoin and um we all know the story of

el salvador with 21 in 2021 um declaring bitcoin as a legal tender even though recently they have repealed that definition they're still i think the number one country in the world to embrace bitcoin and make it a friendly currency and asset and i think they're going more in the direction of a reserve asset than a medium of exchange kind of daily um monetary asset which is understandable in terms of the way bitcoin is progressing around the world with the us leading the way etc so what i want to ask you your view about the change that we are witnessing these days in terms of the monetary order changing from completely debt-based monetary system fiat, whether you're using US dollar, euros, or any other currency, to a digital system that some countries adopt

as Bitcoin and other countries adopt as CBDCs, stable coins, and many other shenanigans that they're coming up with. Where do you see this going? How do you think that change in the monetary order is influencing our world today? And do you think enough people are aware of that change that is actually happening right now? I mean, I know many people are aware, especially in our audiences about the limitations on cash and how governments are clamping down on our rights consistently since COVID and with the digital ID, now cash is being also eliminated slowly. We're going towards cashless societies, but there's clearly a trend. There is a change. I personally believe most people are not aware of what's happening. How do you see that change unfolding? And do you

think society is aware of what's happening? Society certainly is not aware of what's happening. I mean, not to speak badly about the general population in any way, but most people don't even know what money is or have a basic understanding of money and economics. If they did, more people would be Bitcoiners. More people would be Bitcoiners, and I think people would vote very differently and advocate quite different policies. I think socialism and communism would be dead in the water permanently if people had an idea about these type of things but you know they don't um and they're typically not taught whether you're in the public or private schooling system most people never learn about money even if you go to very good schools as i did go to a very

good university all the stuff i know about money and fractional reserve banking and inflation scam i learned about inflation when i was 16 or 17 in school but that's specifically because i chose to study study economics it's not a mandatory subject but they taught you that it's good it's positive two to three percent a year it was keynesian economics of course right but you know there's some at least you learn about supply and demand curves and you know how things are priced and certain basic economic laws um and i did learn that you know governments slash central banks printing money is predominantly what causes inflation i do remember learning that in school yep um but most people don't um and look i also think to

to give some grace as well i'm aware that most people are just very busy and most people are generally just trying to survive day to day take care of themselves take care of their families make sure there's food on the table and so on right especially on a global level yeah like most people don't have a lot of free time to sit around and think about issues and study partly because the monetary system traps them in this way but yes yes but i'm you know i so i i understand in the same way i understand that it's difficult to um spend the time and the energy and the money to like really look into nutrition and taking care of your health and making sure you're exercising regularly it's it's easier not to do than it is to do and i think the majority of

people are always going to do what is easier rather than what is more difficult and time consuming most people in most things will always take the path of least resistance so with all that said in terms of bitcoin and cbdc's i have a general belief that most technology certainly any major technology typically has the power to both liberate and to enslave so if we are talking about digital money yep or just money in general yeah but certainly with digital money um there are two at least two obvious paths to me and one is the path of of increased enslavement and outsourcing of power and control, CBDCs.

The other is taking the power back and taking back the control and the ownership and putting the trust in oneself. And the most perfect manifestation of that is Bitcoin and all of the philosophy around it. custody really truly owning your own money not needing all these middlemen to transact being able to just you know have something scarce that you can deal with peer-to-peer and use however you like um so what path you know pick your path humanity and i think long term this is going to vary nation to nation perhaps even state to state might be a better term because even within a

nation yeah there's you know different states different cities different you know one of my big predictions for this century is um just way more decentralization so i know there are people who think like oh there's going to be this one world government and you know new world order and it's all gonna you know the countries are going to like merge together and the governments are going to merge i think it's going to go the opposite way yeah and um even if the trend of my lifetime has even been more decentralization when i was born i think there were about 170 countries in the world officially recognized i think that number is now 195 something like that so in my the course of my own lifetime the number of countries has actually increased and i can see

that continuing to happen um and so i i think on a long time frame you're going to just see more and more how would i put it you know i think people are increasingly going to migrate digitally and physically more towards people and places that suit their belief system and philosophy and the way that they want to live and this is already happening i live in the united arab emirates as you know lots and lots of people there used to just be a desert right it was nothing who who would have wanted to live in the uae like 30 40 50 years ago it was not was not some popular destination let alone for you know millionaires and people with lots of wealth it wasn't but because of their policies and because of the way they're doing things and the overall

philosophy of both the government and the people who actually live there um people who agree with philosophy and who like that and who don't want to be text and do want to have more control over those aspects of their life a lot of people are migrating there other people are you know there's people who are moving to El Salvador I know people I know Americans who have moved to El Salvador right I mean America is supposed to be like number one you know America number one right like no one ever leaves no you know we don't even need to have passports cuz like I'm never leaving the soil and people are like oh actually you know

there's these other options maybe for more freedom like it sounds interesting you know we have now have there are people if not if not probably at least hundreds of thousands but probably millions of americans america is land of the free home of the brave america has always been famous for its freedom its liberty and so on and in many regards it ranks highly in those things but in others it doesn't depending on you know what you care about and how you look at things and what your philosophy is and there are people who are have left the usa to find more freedom which to the average american might sound almost blasphemous um because they think no we already ranked number one in that but not by every measure and for some people they're better off being in el salvador

other people they might be better off being here or there and i just see this trend continuing you know we're coming you know we're around the end of the first quarter of a new century it's only 2025 you know this century is going to end what 2100 so we've got 75 more years of this particular century i mean if you think back to 1925 think of like the time between 1925 and the year 2000 and think of how much happened in the world how many things changed and so on insane that's like where we are compared to 2100 right right and lord willing you know at least some of us we always might still be alive then but you know That's why I'm saying I want to be alive until I'm 120.

It will be exactly in 2100. Yeah. So, you know, I can't predict, I can't literally predict the future, but I see much more decentralization happening. I see more like, look, okay, if you really want to be, I think, you know, there will be, you know what, you want to be, you believe in communism and you want to be a communist, cool, like, go live in that place.

You are super hyper-capitalistic and you don't want to put much trust in the state and so on. you can be there i generally believe you know there's that um concept in physics i'm i can't remember the exact name of the law but you know energy cannot be created or destroyed i i have a i believe the same is true of power um i think the amount of power that exists like in a system or in a society is doesn't change it's not created or destroyed but where it lies changes yeah okay so generally speaking if an individual gives up his or her power

someone else takes it yes it goes it goes elsewhere so if you're not willing to take responsibility and accountability and empower yourself like okay then the most obvious manifestation is it goes to the state it goes to the government right or it could go to um it could go to other family members it could go to um a workplace it could go it could go to a workplace it could go to other institutions yeah power can be held by lots of different places if you go back in certain times you know in the west even like the church itself had more power than the government in in many ways right so it's like all right we power can be you know here or there or there and it's you know none of us keep it 100 all in ourselves um there's probably people who

would like to think that they do but to do that you'd really have to like detach yourself from society and just almost like be like a stateless person who just lives in the forest and like does all your own self-sustained father like there's degrees to it yeah so you know and i think most people are willing to okay like as long as you trust the other parties like look we're here in el salvador yeah all right and obviously the government here has power yes and if the government if the government didn't actually have power then it they wouldn't have been able to secure and clean up the country they did before right so they were able to take the power from the gangs yeah right and say okay no we're gonna the government's gonna take some of this back and we're gonna also

give back some to the the people right right so i don't think the amount of power in el salvador changed but where it's sitting i think they transmuted that energy of power from the violence of the gangs into sovereignty of the people through bitcoin yeah i think it happened more or less in the same time yeah it's like a transmutation exactly it's and i totally agree with you because power is energy is a form of it's got its own frequency but it's it's a form of energy and it definitely transmutes so i love that analogy i think that's wonderful and i think that many people i mean especially freedom lovers and they are very keen to find more ways to reclaim back their power to reclaim back their sovereignty to build life again in the most

self-sustained powerful way that they can have like individually powerful but yet i and a lot of those great people are listeners of my podcast so where i'm getting at is a lot of those people are being stopped when it comes to the conversation of money and i'm curious why why is it that is hard for people to cross that barrier of going deeper into the topic of money understanding how it works and then taking is it because it forces you to take agency in the end i mean i don't know why but it's a phenomena that i'm seeing so i'm curious to hear your opinion Yeah, I have multiple answers to this. I think it's a lot of things at play.

I don't think it's one. Okay. One of them is just, I think that, I've said this before on multiple podcasts, and this is that actually by nature, most human beings are conservative. Okay. When I say conservative,

I don't mean in a hard political sense. Okay. What I mean is most people are very resistant to change. Right. So regardless of whether someone is politically, like liberal or progressive or right or left or whatever it doesn't most people are conservative by nature they don't like change things are in their comfort zone it's familiar it's what they know and introducing something new especially if it's like radical or it takes work most people are

i wouldn't even say most people i'd say like everyone everyone is resistant to change to some degree we all have our things that we like we have our daily habits we have our field of knowledge we don't really like someone coming in and being like oh no like do it completely a different way right um so i think that's a huge factor we are all born you know we've all been born and grown up in fiat currency world right like it's all we know like what even is again you say someone money most people they think money they're going to think of like the banknote of their particular currency they'll think of a dollar sign a euro yen whatever like that's money and that's what we know like when we say the word money typically that's what that's

what it means that's what everyone means right so to get someone to like go right back to the basics and like rethink it all you're actually asking them to do quite a lot of work and anyone who's gone down the bitcoin rabbit hole will say actually it's a lot of it takes time yeah it does it takes time it takes you have to read to listen you have to put your ego aside and assume okay let just assume i don't know anything about money yeah and let me listen to this crazy person right these weirdos who are like all these weirdos about magic into no money there's that there's the misinformation there's the i don't even like the term misinformation but it is yeah right there's the there's the misinformation the

ridiculing of it yeah around the oh it's you know it's only used by criminals or the whole thing is a scam it's just a tulip bubble the puns right like the yeah these things that at this point you know you roll your eyes when you when you hear them right but they're very effective narratives at shutting off people's brains yeah because most people will just hear it and they'll be like oh i just heard it was a scam and they don't do deep again you even when you say bitcoin most people just think like oh you know crypto like all they think all of it right they don't separate bitcoin from crypto it's just oh it's all crypto and well i don't buy bitcoin because you know my friend bought whatever on dog coin and he lost all his money and so it's a scam it's like you're not

even talking about you're not even talking about bitcoin what is a random meme coin so you know there's all that also people are very distracted yeah people are busy and they're distracted yeah some people are genuinely busy lots of people are just distracted they're spending you know five hours a day frying your brain on tiktok and social media and then frying your brain for another three hours on the television and you're distracted you're worried about politics and the culture and this and this and this people are just distracted it's hard to get people to learn anything new let alone about money which is quite a dry subject you know money and economics it's not doesn't it doesn't excite people you know oh let me spend 20 hours reading a book

let me read a book about money like so i i think there's that and i think because it's money oh here's another one oh gosh there's so many factors it's not in the interest of the powers that be that people for people to learn this for it to be transparent like i i would i would wager that like i've not um i have no like degree or certification and anything financial related right but i'd say certainly compared to the lay person i have a better understanding of like the money system and how it generally works but it's so opaque that it's actually really hard to understand like the first time i learned about like fractional reserve banking and how like money is even made and how like money is you know made when like for example if someone goes to the

bank and takes out a loan then like the money is like made on the spot it's not like coming out of something existing yeah or like you know maybe a bank has a billion dollars in deposits in it but actually in cash reserves, they only have like a hundred million in cash. And then like the other 900 million, like, like it's, it's confusing. Even for me, like I can't explain it all perfectly because I don't have the level of depth and sophistication and study to understand. So it's, it's a huge, it's a huge, huge rabbit hole. And then there's also understanding the alternative, right? So if you're trying to get someone to understand Bitcoin, um, it's a bit complicated it's not uh you know there's a high level overview that's very simple but there's

layers of technicality like even as a bitcoiner like there are bitcoiners who are like hardcore into the tech side and like if they're talking and having a bike i don't even know what they're talking oh sure right yeah and i consider myself someone who's like really enthusiastic about bitcoin and i'm like gosh like you're talking to like miners and like you know the when you're like the techie i don't even know i don't even know what you guys are talking about right um so So there's layers of complexity, and I think that that also just kind of scares people. And then I think lastly, there's probably more reasons, but a lot of people don't understand why they should care. Right.

And actually, in my personal experience, in my opinion, that is the best place to start, is why should I care? Okay. So most people actually do care. People do care about money. people do care about the fact that everything in the grocery store seems to be keep getting more expensive and house prices are going up and they're harder to afford and it seems harder day to day to get so that should really actually always be the starting point i think okay like here's why you should care so everyone's talking about you know cost of living and da da da like

they use these terms cost of living crisis um they'll never talk about inflation exactly they'll never they'll never uh i remember like after the pandemic game yeah i remember after the pandemic when they did like you know all of their horrible policies and then everyone is like in the uk a huge thing was you know the cost of living crisis i call it the cost of lockdown crisis right yeah it's like but no one no one ever in the media even made the dot connection of course between oh maybe there's a connection between like how much forcing everyone to stay home shutting down lots of businesses stopping people working and then at the same time ramping up the money printing like it doesn't take a genius to know that's going to cause massive

inflation down the line and then the inflation comes and then people are and then what do they say oh it's the corporations it's the corporate greed it's capitalism right and that's why it's monopolies it's uh it's it's the oligarchs the billionaires let's tax the billionaires elon's fault i love how they do that divide and conquer where they distract the public to think that it's only the rich people that are the problem it's insane yeah it's crazy but it works because people are not educated and sophisticated on this topic you know i agree with you about everything you said but i want to be bullish so okay give me some hope sure in that i haven't been trying to black people here sorry no i know no you're not you're saying exactly what i'm saying

but the question is how are we going to get more people to understand that probably the root cause for a lot of their suffering or for how we can actually create something new in life is by fixing the money. How do you, what is your way of directing people to start paying attention to it, to learning, to get themselves educated? Where do you point them to and how do you do that?

Yeah, well, I think there's a big question about whether or not it's like my, your, our job to do that legit yes um i would like to believe that i can help everyone but i'm very aware from my life experiences that you can't help everyone all the time but i do believe morally and ethically it's good to use your knowledge and your abilities and experiences to help people when and where you can so my first thing is always just gauging if a conversation is worth having because some people are just so not not just on this issue but some people are just they're so so so closed-minded that you know you're you're wasting your breath having a conversation or trying to explain or

convince them of anything right they're just stuck and it's like you know what okay like i'm not even going but if someone is genuinely curious and interested then you know i think i think that's first step and then like i said i think um you meet people where they are their pain points and their concerns and we all have them and you start by helping them understand how in this case bitcoin can help to alleviate some of those fears and concerns that they have and that might take a while it's typically not going to be a single conversation um it can be sometimes some people kind of get it very quickly um other people don't um and the thing that i think is particularly something particularly interesting about bitcoin actually is regardless of someone's kind of like

social or political views or like even their socioeconomic status yeah there's actually a lot of different narratives for the case for bitcoin so um if i think of if someone's like a super libertarian and kept style like the the case is obvious money that's not controlled by the state that you have full control over personal sovereignty and so on like it's kind of an easy sell um someone who's more like fiscally conservative um you know there's there's a narrative there for them as well especially if you even even if they're socially conservative like you can connect it to family and to generational wealth and the fact that like you know explain the ravages of inflation and just how damaging it is and then there's something that

works in the opposite fashion um here's why you should care about it and even for people who are more like um liberal or even progressive like people who want to um you know people like people you know like let's say like you know let me not even use that term let me let me say the term of like someone who's more like traditionally left wing and who is particularly concerned um like someone who's truly left-wing like supposed like in the way it's meant to be and is truly concerned about like um poverty and inequality and the have-nots and people who are like struggling they're the ones who are most ravaged by the money printers especially overseas like it's easier to sell to it's easier for someone in nigeria or turkey or zimbabwe to understand bitcoin than

it is for someone in like germany or switzerland or canada true because their currencies like we're all hit by inflation but they're hit by like hyperinflation and just the currency is just absolutely ravaged um so explaining bitcoin and the value of it is is kind of easier so if you care about those people whether it's domestically or abroad like you know i think everyone you know think everyone should be concerned about poverty but again people on the left in particular they make their whole thing about like caring about you know these i care about the poor and i want to help them and stuff right a better solution than just let's just try to rob the rich and you know get their redistribution communistic nonsense it's like hey what if you actually like empowered

those people you actually teach them about money and now there is a technology there is a form of money that they can use and they can save in that is not going to get ravaged by inflation yeah okay so if you price things in bitcoin terms versus pricing them in dollars or euros or pounds yes i know bitcoin has its fluctuations but generally speaking everything keeps getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper in this currency so why not encourage people to use this one rather than the one where everything is getting more and more and more expensive what about people who don't even have access to bank accounts right what about them what about people who want to send remittances back to their home country yeah why don't we why aren't we encouraging them so whatever someone's

kind of like worldview is i think there's a there's a good case there's a strong case for bitcoin bitcoin to me isn't just for like it's not like just for libertarians or just for conservatives or just like like forget all that like it's just it's for if you care about humanity then i think you should care about bitcoin if you unders once you understand it oh here here's another angle as well what about um people who are very concerned with like war and violent conflict yeah absolutely most people don't know or see or have any idea of like the connection between the funny money system and like these infinite endless wars and the ability to do that but once you can help them connect those dots and see actually if more and more people adopted this

and we moved in this direction we will have fewer wars yeah we will have less conflict we'll have less violence and all the horrible stuff that comes with it if we had like a true and proper money system that wasn't being just manipulated and devalued and destroyed then um we we'd just all be we'd all be better off um yeah we don't we'd all be better off so i i think anyone who cares about humanity and i think almost everyone would say they care about humanity should look into they should do a deep dive into this bitcoin thing because they they might find that it's um it's more than magic internet money and number go up like it's it's pretty deep what's your favorite beginner's point where do you send your uh people that come and ask yeah where do

you start i actually have been sending a lot of people to um it's funny because uh we just met someone who talked about it the interview i did with jack mallers great funnily enough here in el salvador yes um so real talk with zoobie with jack mallers i think that was a very good episode for people who are just getting a basic understanding of like what Bitcoin is and also why you should care about it. Like the way Jack explained inflation and the consequences of it was possibly the best explanation I've actually ever heard of like why inflation is so bad and putting it in very human terms so yeah i think that's um phenomenal yeah i think that's a great guys phenomenal i'll put a link to that okay please do yeah that's amazing wonderful and

is there a favorite book or or anything like that that you like or podcasts that you listen to yeah i mean i everyone recommends it but you know the the bitcoin standard is a is a very good book safety and namus um that was one of the ones that really helped me understand things there's a book that's just called money money which i can't i don't think i've ever heard remember it's not a bitcoin book it's literally just a book about money but that was one of the ones i read maybe in like 2015 or 2016 that just about me yeah it's just about money in general like kind of the history of money and what money is um and i think i think having read that is something that made me when i came across bitcoin

i understood it because i was interested in it much faster nice because i had a good idea of like the problems nice of of of the current system um i always recommend a movie a documentary called the four horsemen okay no i haven't it's incredible it's also about money like an hour and a half of a documentary with that's where i first saw max kaiser oh interesting and he was very young there because it's like 12 years old that movie and so he was talking about wall street and how they robbed people and it was incredible so i learned a lot about fiat in that movie and i always recommended to people as the first step to learn about the what fiat is like what is the the base of money how does it work today and you know the force four horsemen is

like the prophecy yes like the end of time so it shows how fiat is taking us to that kind of reality it doesn't talk about bitcoin at all but it's uh it's a perfect place to start i think yeah yeah there's a lot of good resources out there oh yeah there are a lot of them you know that when i started going into this uh subject as you do i didn't know that bitcoin was like decentralized and there is no bitcoin office or boss or ceo or whatever so i googled like bitcoin and i got to bitcoin.com and i'm starting to look at things and then i see like hundreds of other websites and resources and like everyone's talking about this but but where is the bitcoin company website i'm like looking for this i did not know it was so funny until i asked someone is there not like a

one source of truth you know for bitcoin and they laughed at me like you clearly don't know what that is that's the whole point in it yeah one thing i would say to to people i mean i'm i'm sure lots of your audience is already orange filled but for for those who anyone listening to this who may not be i will say that it's spending spending a few hours researching and learning about bitcoin is one of the best rois you will ever in your life have on your time yeah when i when i see anytime i talk about bitcoin on my platform like there will be people who literally for years have been like oh like i you know

i don't know anything about this or i know it's like you've been saying this for five years bro you've been saying you you've been hearing about you you've been procrastinating learning about bitcoin for five six seven you do you know the opportunity cost of this yeah like you you could like if you just spend those few hours then like it's hard to think of a bigger return on investment in terms of your time because we're not even just talking about our lifetime we're talking about generations this is like the equivalent of i don't know i don't know the um exact timing but imagine i don't know you could go back to let's say sometime in the 1950s when you know post-world war ii america's booming or whatever and like you've got someone who is

just has zero you know they keep hearing about like realist something called real estate right they keep hearing about real estate and people are like doing really well in real estate and and they just can't be bothered to spend a little time to like like learn bro like this opportunity is is here for us and our generation sure real estate has its benefits and so on but like this is our generational opportunity i can easily see a future and i'm not just like hyping this up i can very realistically see a future where like our you know our kids are adult adults or maybe they even have kids and so on and they're going to be like telling stories of like i my dad got bitcoin under a hundred thousand and they'll be like what like you know you know

you know when you talk to boomers and they're like i bought this house for like thirty thousand dollars you know we bought this you know your granddad bought this house for eight thousand dollars and we're like what yeah like what like that's crazy like i think that's gonna be bitcoin it's gonna be like they're gonna be like what like you used to be able to buy bitcoin for like thousand like what like that's crazy so yeah i think and it's like we have the opportunity to position ourselves yeah and give our descendants that opportunity in the same way that there are people who you know right now they're in a good position because they literally their grandfather or their great-grandfather decided to buy that piece of land back in like the early 1900s and

they've been able to like pass that on and you know create the generational wealth and so on i think this is this is it this is that opportunity it's the gold rush for sure yeah and people aren't rushing yet no people are not rushing yet i think there will come a time when it i mean it's crazy i mean i've been in bitcoin since 2017 um when i first like really really went down the bitcoin rabbit hole it was under ten thousand dollars right it was like six seven thousand at the time remember it was actually november 2017 so i think it was around six thousand seven thousand dollars um and 2017 doesn't sound that long ago to me like i can very very clearly remember this day um and it's kind of crazy to think like already just fast forward eight years

and owning a whole bitcoin is already completely out of the reach of the majority of the population yeah whereas just eight years ago and and of course at that time i thought i was late because you know people were buying like under a thousand and so on right and they probably people before them you know they were like what people were getting for double digits or single digits and so on um and so i don't think that that shouldn't discourage anyone because you don't need to like you know have a whole bitcoin or whatever right like it's never quote unquote too late this is something that could be by the time bitcoin's a million plus dollars you know i don't know what a million dollars is going to be worth but yeah i just

think it's it's it's gonna just keep it's gonna just keep appreciating it's i don't even know if it's bitcoin appreciating or if it's just like everything else yeah everything else is is gonna bleed out compared to it when you denominate in bitcoin yeah then everything else is trending you know it's just it's just trending downwards um and yeah i i don't know i just want to encourage people to like at least take the time like look if someone even does the deep dive and really like learns about us and they still and they somehow come to the conclusion that like they're not interested or like they still don't want any then okay you know god bless you but um i think if you do do it like you're unlikely to reach that conclusion but if you do then i just don't i

don't want people to be ignorant like i think it would be sad if we're like 10 years 10 years forward in 2035 and you know there's someone who literally for the past like 15 years they've been hearing about bitcoin but they can't be bothered to on the same phone that they're typing you the message saying i don't know anything about bitcoin or i haven't been bothered you on the exact same device you could literally go to google go to your search engine yeah and type it in or just just learn go on youtube learn buy a book just use free resources you don't even need to spend money and just learn about what it is like just don't don't be so pridefully ignorant like it could really not just make life so much harder for you but harder for your kids and harder for your

grandkids and so on like these opportunities don't um these this isn't like a typical opportunity like bitcoin is people a lot of very very very smart and very very successful people are hyped up about it and interested about it for a very good reason um i'm not saying all this to pump my bags or to like no it's because we have so like i can see the people are struggling even in the west even in developed countries people are struggling like it's hard like things are really getting expensive i remember how much things used to cost 10 years ago compared to now like inflation is real um and had i not done a deep dive into bitcoin back in 2017 and 18 and built my conviction and you know i would be um i can i would be far worse off i know for a fact

like i'm i'm like i would be far worse off if it were not for the existence of bitcoin i'm in a much much better position now because bitcoin exists and i'm not alone in that regard and everyone has access to this you don't need to be wealthy to begin with you don't like you don't need permission no we don't need permission you don't need a gatekeeper wherever you're starting from even if it's like you know what i'm gonna put five dollars a week going to put one dollar a day into bitcoin if you do that if you if you did if you put one dollar a day into bitcoin then by the end of that year you you'd probably be in like the top two percent of bitcoin holders in the world just with that like i think 97 estimated 96 to 97 percent of the

population does not have a satoshi yep so if we're talking about like for the people who are like oh oh, is it too late to buy Bitcoin? 97% of the population has nothing, is on zero point, like zero point, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero. So even if you just bought $1, you are now in like the 3% of people who has something. So just get off zero. Even if you're not a true believer, even if you're like, zero is not the correct amount of Bitcoin to have. Yeah. Like zero is not the right amount of Satoshis to have. Let's not even talk about bitcoin talk about satoshi's right just get get off zero and then from there i love this learn more build your conviction but you're very good at making people bullish you know you're sitting

here at zero it's like the worst thing you can do the worst thing you can do there's one thing you take out of this conversation is get off zero get off zero zuby do you think we are in um in the process of a spiritual awakening these days yes do you feel like we are do you think life is changing do you think consciousness is changing what do you how do you see the whole spiritual thing i know it's a yeah yeah i mean go my answer is yes and i think part of it is because i think a lot of people are coming to god by seeing satan first i think that um there has been i think evil has become i think evil's kind of come out of hiding

it's a lot more obvious and in your face in many ways if you are paying attention than it has been previously um and i think oddly enough that is causing more people to ask questions and to kind of go a little bit deeper and to take these ideas that are not purely materialistic and purely scientific a little more seriously um i've see like there's very very prominent and public examples of this but even outside of that just on an individual day-to-day level i see more people at least asking those questions and starting to think there's something lots of things are rational and logical and scientific but there seems to be something beyond that um so yeah i think more and more people are starting

to ask those questions and yeah I don't know I don't know exactly what it leads to but I think it's good for people to be doing more doing more soul-searching and being open-minded and open-hearted enough to at least at a minimum consider ideas of spirituality and religion and God and to to think about it and I think if you genuinely explore it then you will get pulled into the rabbit hole and you know I think for a lot of people their own how would I put a bit like what i was reflecting on before like their own brains yeah cage block them yeah um it's it's funny like i'm i'm a christian and i have been my entire life um but i can see

i can imagine an alternative universal reality where i'm an atheist and i think if i were like that it would largely be because like my own brain is my own brain and perhaps my own pride are blocking me from even being willing to entertain or explore certain ideas yeah um so yeah i don't know i've seen a lot of people including some like pretty prominent like very very vocal atheists and even anti-theists kind of like soften their stance over the past decade which is interesting and i i think a lot of it hasn't come necessarily through uh religious apologetics but through just seeing what's happening in the world and in the culture and in their countries and confronting some of the darkness and confronting some of the

things that are impossible to explain purely rationally or purely scientifically and making them think man there's something i don't know you know maybe not jumping straight to i believe in god right but they're like this maybe i should take some of these ideas a little more seriously there seems to be something going on there seem to be some of these people out here who seem to something that they seem to be tapped and tuned into something that i'm not and i'm missing they seem to be able to predict make predictions more accurately than i am and paint with more colors than i am um so yeah we'll see we'll see do you think do you normally guide people to do more soul searching and be open to this when you see that they are

being carried down the black peel path i mean i'm seeing that a lot around me where people have woken up at certain stage normally during covid and then life is so hard and the amount of truths you're discovering can really be disheartening can be hard to cope with yeah and you don't find hope in many things anymore and i always recommend to people to go to some mental spiritual work um is that something that you correlate like the the black pill path and losing hope in life and then maybe you want to look this way and start doing some introspecting and like find your your path again to a white white pill white pill yeah i mean look i'm a christian i believe jesus christ is our lord and savior and died for our sins and i don't believe

that look i believe human beings are inherently sinful i believe in i believe in original sin and i don't believe that we can i don't believe like we can ultimately in the spiritual sense save ourselves yeah i agree in the physical realm you know i'm kind of about hey like save yourself in the in the yeah when it comes to your your finances or looking after your body or you know taking care of your family right save yourself in that way you know don't look to the government but if we're talking like ultimately yeah i don't believe we're i don't believe we're capable of that and the world is dark and there is a lot of horrible stuff and there is darkness and there is despair i could i can completely empathize or sympathize with people who are

blackpilled because i see a lot of the same things that they do and i understand how you you could adopt a worldview and a mindset where it's just like you know what what's even the point what's the point of anything like it all sucks like it's just darkness and death and sickness and illness and violence and people are you know could be really nasty and horrible to each other yeah there's a lot of reasons to be black pilled um but i think you know you you keep pulling on that on that on that thread and i think it leads people to it leads people to god it leads people to christ um because you know it's interesting there are people who are like really like anti-christianity or anti-religion as a whole and one of their um criticisms is that it's uh

is that it's a crutch right and that people believe in religion or believe in an afterlife in heaven because it makes it makes it easier to get through life or it makes it easier to deal with sickness or a loved one dying or something like that and like this is their huge criticism and i'm like i'm like and so is that a bad thing obviously i believe it's true but like even if you even if you didn't objectively what is so bad about people having a belief system and a faith that enables them to endure them up and be less depressed and not be suicidal and to cope with sickness and illness and death like yeah what's the why is that bad like that sounds like a good thing to me yeah um if someone needs a crutch a crutch isn't a bad

thing right like you know someone's got a broken leg and it's like oh you've got a crutch i was like yeah i need the crutch right like i don't think we're meant to deal with everything on our own i don't think we can yeah i think we can try um and i think there's different ways we can you know frame things and people can um you know look in in our societies like a significant percentage of the population literally drug themselves in order to cope with daily weekly life and reality right it's not even it's not even most people drug themselves to some degree yeah in the usa you have a quarter of the population on some type of antidepressant or ssri some type of mental health medication i think it's like

over 20 of the population of the adult population what percentage use out drinking alcohol or using some other you know alcohol is the most common yeah form of like you know trying to detach escape reality numb yourself a little bit you know in every movie when something someone is sad what do you do there's that scene where they're at the bar and they're drinking um and that's like if you if you kind of think about that quite deeply it shows like gosh like people are struggling to like just deal with reality there are people who like will explicitly tell you like oh i hate being sober and i'm like bro think of what you're saying like that's a like you hate being sober like you need to alter your mind state like constantly in order to just like

you know cope with life and reality um yeah i i think it's crazy that we're having all these conversations about like you know the mental health crisis and all of this and fewer people like not more people are like directly linking this to like just this the spiritual sickness and the darth of the darth of faith and the abandonment of that like to me these things are very obviously they're very obviously correlated that the more and more people abandon faith and throw that away and then engage in all of this other stuff that the world tells them to then um yeah of course there's going to be more depression of course there's going to be more anxiety of course there's going to be more suicidal ideation because um you know you're

trying to walk a path alone that you're not meant to walk alone fully agree with you um what gives you hope i feel like i just touched on it my faith and your beautiful son yeah family loved ones friends look i there's there's lots of reasons to be hopeful i think you you just have to like you know your mindset really creates your reality in many ways it really really does how you frame things and how you react and respond to things because as i've said like the world the world does have a ton of darkness in it um and the world has a ton of light in it and whatever you focus on is going to you know grow and be bigger to you what you focus on what you put your energy into it's it's generally going to grow so if you choose to focus on the negative and you choose to

focus on the bad things that are happening and you choose to focus on thoughts of illness and death and catastrophe and crime and uh war all of these things if that's where your predominant focus is like um you're you're you're going to struggle to be a happy and a joyful person long term but if you focus on the good you focus on kindness and you put yourself in a good environment and you surround yourself with good people this doesn't mean that you um by the way this doesn't mean you like run away pretend yeah that bad stuff isn't happening right i'm i'm a very positive person but i'm also very like grounded in reality i'm quite aware of all of these bad things um but you can you can reframe it in fact i get asked a lot what motivates me

the most what motivates me the most is knowing that i and everyone else is going to die yeah i feel like gosh how are you so motivated how do you have so much same yeah bro like i don't i'm not here forever no one no one is here forever of course i'm going to treat people well and try to be like kind to them like especially family but everyone strangers friends like i don't know like could talk to someone and like i don't know i don't know next time gosh like i'm going deeper like i'm from a really big family um my dad's one of 11 my mom is one of eight uh-huh and something no one like talks about with having a big family is actually over the course of your lifetime you witness a lot of death right you witnessed a lot of birth and new life as well you witness a lot

of death like all of all of my grandparents have died i've lost so many aunties and uncles i've had a lot of cousins die some of my many of my cousins died at an age younger than i am now right um through accident through disease through different types of things and it makes me just a hyper conscious of my own and other people's mortality yes i do believe in an afterlife and i think that this is this is temporary um but it's why i don't like i just like man i've got to get things done i've got to get things done and leave it to the max like yeah live it to the fullest exactly i i i try to live where like you know if i can genuinely say if i died tomorrow and i don't want to and i don't plan to yeah forbid yeah right i don't want to

die tomorrow but if i did i'd be like fine i'd be happy with how i live my life and what i achieved and how i treated people and the things i did like i wouldn't die with like oh man all of those things i wanted to do and all it like i i didn't even yeah like i didn't even try i just like hit away like yeah no like it's it's why i do what i do like i pray that gosh i hope i have many many many more decades right i hope i live to 100. oh yeah um but it's not guaranteed you know i could be gone next week god forbid but like it's it's possible i don't know i i don't we don't know people get sick people die accidents happen horrible things happen now to me that's not a reason to be like sad and depressed and blackpilled it's a reason to like all right like not in a

reckless way right not like the yolo like go do stupid stuff right but like in the like you do like what do you were you waiting for like come on like i live with some urgency live with some urgency um and also just like don't hold stupid grudges like when i meet people who are like oh i don't i don't know there's people who they had an argument with their brother 10 years ago and like now they don't talk anymore like that's stupid like fix your relationships like what do you mean what do you mean you don't talk your parents aren't gonna live forever if you're blessed for your parents to still be alive again i'm aware there might be some like super super extreme scenario where like you yeah right there's always like extreme exceptions but generally speaking

yeah like you should like they're not around people aren't around forever so yeah maybe you maybe because of circumstances you're never you're not gonna be best friends with your mom or with your dad or whatever but like can you at least like reconcile to some degree to a point where if that person died tomorrow you'd be you wouldn't be like oh crap yeah i should have like you know like i don't i'm very like just cautious and aware to not have that i haven't i haven't i literally have no grudges i have no grudges everyone who i love knows i love them tell it to them every time i see them um i don't think anyone would be like oh you know zuby treated me bad like i just do my best to be like everyone just treat treat everyone with kindness and respect and dignity um if

there's something you want to build or you want to create or you want to do like do your best to make it happen um if you've got like a dream if there's so if there's it doesn't even need to be that deep it could be like there's a country or city you've been like wanting to go to for 10 years go go like do it don't just sit there dreaming oh i want to go to rome i've been thinking about going to rome for a little bit like unless there's some like huge barrier book the ticket and go like you know like we don't we don't we don't live forever like that i love it i love your approach to life i love how grounded and based and in your face you are i wish more people were like you this is amazing i knew that talking to you would be so much fun

and it was a delight i'm happy to hear thank you thank you so much this has been a pleasure and um i mean i don't need to even say where people should follow you but your podcast your music you're everywhere yeah um at zuby music on all social media and you can check out my podcast and music on all platforms just search my name zuby you'll find me thank you so much i appreciate it thanks for the gift of your time thanks for being with us please take a minute to give this episode a like a comment and subscribe or follow and please share it with your friends so they can also get value and choose to take some positive action in their lives. Till next time.