ZM's Bree & Clint - ZM's Bree & Clint with James Cameron for Avatar: Fire and Ash (full)

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

Clint got the opportunity to talk to Avatar director James Cameron ahead of the red carpet premiere of Avatar: Fire and Ash in Wellington, New Zealand. They talked about: The use of AI in cinema.  Cliff Curtis' involvement in character designs.  James Cameron's history with New Zealand.  How he had the time to shoot the Billie Eilish documentary at the same time.  Avatar: Fire and Ash is in cinemas December 18 (New Zealand).See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kura, James Cameron. I was going to say, welcome to Wellington, but actually... I live here. Where do you live? I live in Auckland, so actually... Welcome to Wellington. Thank you. Thank you. The film is fantastic. I saw it this week. And I thought it was perfect, but I imagine that you are somewhat of a perfectionist with these things.

And I was interested in... Because it's out there now. It's out of your hands. It's out of my hands. How late were you able to make your final change to the film and how close to submitting it was that? change made. Oh, well, it's pride out of your cold dead fingers, basically, is what happens. But right down to the very last day before delivery. And when I watched it at the premiere, I thought, dang, I should have mixed the music a little louder in that scene.

You would, though, right? Yeah, well, I can still do it for the video. Oh, okay. Yeah, right? Yeah, for the DVD release. Yeah, well, no, for the, well, there'll be video. I mean, it'll eventually stream on all the other downstream stuff, right? So, yeah. When I saw it, there is a, I don't enough everybody will get the message from you before it screens where you address the audience and you show how the live capture works publicly no publicly know that's strictly for for press and media so that we have something to talk about is it okay to talk about it sure absolutely so it shows the live capture where and it's quite incredible to see how alongside the finished product how the actors emotions and faces are captured and translated but you are also very clear about the fact that there

is no AI used in the creation of that. Correct. Why is that important for you to get across to people? Historically, on the previous two films, I've sort of hidden the process. And I did that on purpose, because I didn't want people to think, oh, it's people running around in tights, you know what I mean, with a little camera on their head, which is basically how it's done. But I feel like it's now important that people understand that it's not generative AI.

It's actually done by actors. And it's a very meticulous and detailed process that plays out over a period of months or even years. And so this is all coming from human creation, from human emotion. Which I think people want, right? I think so. And they want to know that what they're watching is real and what they're paying to see is real.

Exactly. It's like a provenance thing, right? You want that chain of creation back to knowing that there's a human being behind it. And when something is filmed, for the most part, you know that that's a person. Although these days, it's getting harder to know that for sure, unless it's somebody you recognize. Harder and harder. Yeah, and so I just think that that sort of chain of creation, that chain of title, back to real human artists, is critical.

I thought it was great, and it really sort of put the two together for me when I saw it. Thanks. Thanks, good. I'm glad we're getting good feedback on that. But you can see when Zoe does her thing or when Una does her thing. But once it's explained to you, you can see it more. Yes. You know?

Yeah. That's great. And I think if people can see that, they should try and have a look at how that is done as well. I wanted to ask you why New Zealand? Because obviously you could choose to live anywhere that you like. And I imagine there are countries that would fight tooth and nail to have a production like this, even made partly in their country. Why Altiro in New Zealand for you?

Well, there's a lot of momentum to it because we came here on the first avatar and it made sense with the rebate scheme and so on and it was a great experience I loved the crew I love the the artists the artisanal artists at Weta Workshop for example they created a lot of the props and and you know set pieces for us I love working with the with the Weta team I like just life here I actually really like Wellington it's like you know are you a Hurricanes fan I'm not a sports guy you a Phoenix are not a sports guy I'm not a sports guy I I keep that ram in my brain available for the creative process.

Yeah. I liked, you know, I think what appealed to me here was, and I said this to my wife, Susie, it's like, honey, we need to raise our kids in a place where the values are a little more, a little less materialistic and a little more based on respect, which, you know, I'm not everybody in New Zealand is saintly, obviously, but there was an overall value system here that I appreciated. And I had first noticed it, by the way, in 1994. I came here on my way to the South Pole. I came through Christchurch and I was flying to McMurdo and then up to pole from there. And I thought, wow, this place is amazing. You know, not just the scenery.

Everybody goes for the scenery. It was amazing at a kind of a human level. And I... So your connection goes right back to the 90s? Way back before Avatar. I made a promise to myself that I was going to live here someday. Yeah, well, that's awesome that you were able to actually do it. It happened, yeah. In fact, when Susie and I were first getting serious, this is way back on, I think, on Titanic, or after Titanic, technically, I said, you know, before we get too far in this, I've got to tell you, I'm moving to New Zealand.

It's a make-l-a-break for you. And she was like, okay. So I held her to that. Good. I'm glad that it worked out. Let's not sport then. Let's talk about New Zealand through the lens of film. Who's your favorite Kiwi filmmaker?

Ooh, well, I'm very fond of Taika's humor. Yes. I'm also fond of the fact that he's very inclusive with indigenous culture, like when he did res dogs and stuff like that, you know. You see a lot of the indigenous, sorry to jump back to Avatar quickly, but there's a lot of that reference in the film as well.

A lot of the motifs in that look definitely Pacific, but almost Māori in their design. Sure, I think when I first came here, it was interesting. I wrote Avatar in 95, and I came here in 94, and I remembered a lot of the Māori kind of word construction. And I, you know, cultural appropriation was not a thing back then. And so I'm like, I'm going to use some of these words and names. I'm not directly, not literally, but as an inspiration for the language.

And so then when we had to create a new language, Paul Fromer, who was our linguist, came in on the first film. and he started riffing on bits of Native American syntax, bits of Polynesian pronunciation and syntax, and so on. A lot of it will look familiar to New Zealanders when you see it, especially at the tribal markings on Cliff Curtis. Obviously, they're not Māori, but they're... They're inspired by as opposed to appropriated from, and I've spent a lot of time talking to Cliff about this. And I said, all right, at what point are we honoring and celebrating, and at what point are we... we taking something? Yeah.

And he said, I can talk you through this. Okay. And he did. But you know how I got Cliff to be in the movie? How? I showed him a picture of the character and with the full moco and everything, which was, again, just made up. It was our own version of it.

He said, I'm in. That's great. I said, do you want to read the script? He said, sure, but I'm in. Is Cliff your favorite Kiwi actor? He's the one I know the best, and he and I are close mates. So, yeah, I would have to say yes. What's your favorite Kiwi film?

Ooh, tough one. Well, I quite like Cliffs, the Dark Horse. I like the Deadlands. You know, I like the piano. You know, I mean, I'm all over the place on that. I've gotten to be kind of mates with, you know, Jane Campion and, you know, her sensibility as well. It's just unique. You know, Kiwis are just artisanally highly unique.

Are we? Oh, absolutely. It's idiosyncratic, right? This is what Gen A.I. can never do is be that idiosyncratic. It can never master our accent either. Well, there's that. I can't. Yeah.

And we might even have time for one more question. Are you a New Zealand citizen? Yes. You have citizenship? Uh-huh. You do? So you're 100% one of us. 100.

Oh, my God. I didn't even realize that, but. And the rest of us. to my family's close behind me. Last question before they kicked me out, my producer wanted to ask, how did you find time to shoot the Billy Elish 3D movie?

I snuck away. Do you ever sleep? I just snuck away. I didn't even tell Disney that I was doing it. I just snuck away for 10 days and went and shot it. Yeah. And we still delivered on time.

Yeah, there you go. Well, congratulations on the film, James Cameron. People are going to be blown away by this. I hope you're right. We're looking forward to the big red cupboard premiere as well. Yeah, no, it's going to be wild. You're in Wellington. Yeah, yeah.

See if Avatar 4. Oh yeah. Well, we'll see. We'll see. I'm keeping my options open.