ZM's Fletch, Vaughan & Hayley - Fletch, Vaughan & Hayley's Celeb in a Pod - Deborah Frances-White, The Guilty Feminist

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Fletch, Vaughan & Hayley had an extended chat with The Guilty Feminist, Deborah Frances-White! Here's the Uncut chat!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Fleshborn and Hayley, celeb in a pod. I haven't stopped harping on about the fact that the Comedy Festival is on right now. It's started, it's off, and not just the nationals, the internationals are here as well. And we are delighted to be joined by the host of the Guilty Feminist Podcast, Deborah Francis-White. Thank you so much for having me. It is an unqualified delight to be here. Oh my lord. That's the nicest way a guest has ever responded to an introduction. An unqualified delight.

I aim to be the loveliest guest you've ever had. We've had some lovely guests. That's my only goal today. Right. Now if you haven't listened to the Guilty Feminist podcast, which would be honestly an absurd notion, it's had, isn't it like over 100 million?

It's nearly 200 million now. Wow. Okay, that's amazing. Now, I went on the website, guiltyfeminist.com, and here's an example of it that I've taken from your website. I'm a feminist, but, is the statement. One time I went on a women's rights march, and I popped into a department store to use the loo

and I got distracted trying out face cream and when I came out, the march was gone. That did happen to me. And it was really awful because I just had to put my sign in a bin. I remember that. When you were testing the face creams, where was the sign? Like this? I had it with me.

So you put something between your legs and see you've got your hands free. I just lent it up against the counter and then walked out with it thinking, it's a long march, thinking everyone will still be there, you know, it'll just be tail end. Yeah. No, there was no sign of it.

We're like feminists, we move quickly, you know, we know what we want and we just move quickly. When do we want it now? It's not when do we want it in two and a half hours. Yeah, when we're still now. Marching up the street.

What did your sign say that you had to burn? Oh, it probably, I think it was like a reclaim the night or something like that. Great, great, great. But it was like reclaimed the early afternoon, I think. It was, listen, I'm not proud of it, but I confessed it thinking they'd all kick me out of the Feminist Club. It was one of the first things I ever confessed on the show.

And honestly, tens of thousands of women have said to me, I also left it. Do you know, I also left a march earlier. People get a bit claustrophobic. Their back hurts. It's a lot. They think, oh, just stop it. And their mates, they just go, should we just have one quick drink and then we'll go back out? And then they never do.

Oh, my God. Do you know Sandy Toksvig, who hosts QI? Oh, yes. She came on the show and she confessed that she opened, you know, the big women's marches that happened around the world after Trump got in. She hosted the very first London one. So she was the opening speaker that did the rallying cry. She said, I've never told anyone this before, but I did the big speech and then I said to my wife I just I'm short so I don't really like marches because I end up like feeling claustrophobic and like I can't see

yeah yeah she said so we went to Claridge's for tea because it was Claridge's were fancy and she went she went it just was right there was the only thing that was open I just quit it just went for Claridge's for tea and I said you went to Claridge's for tea she said yeah and everyone thinks I did the march but I didn't and I was like. I just went for Claridge's fatigue. And I said, you went to Claridge's fatigue? She said, yeah, and everyone thinks I did the march, but I didn't. And I was like, okay, I feel a lot better now because Sandy Toksvig is one of our preeminent feminists. Indeed. But, you know, she did the speech.

She kicked it off, didn't she? She kicked it off. What more do you want from the woman? You want to keep marching up the street? Nearly everyone's left a protest early. People who go to protests, nearly everyone at some point has gone, I can't do this anymore. But the thing is, you turned up and you were counted. Nearly everyone's left to protest early. People who go to protest, nearly everyone at some point is going, I can't do this anymore.

But the thing is you turned up and you were counted. If you carry that in the body, if you think, oh, I'm the worst one, and you go home and you carry guilt, do you know what guilt turns into if you carry it on the body? Cancer. Cancer. I was going to say shame. But it's so interesting that you've immediately gone for cancer.

Oh, my God. Yeah. But listen, I mean, it does, it can actually affect the body. I think you carry guilt. There's all sorts of ways in which we impact our physical health. But mostly, I mean, listen, I'm not a doctor, and I don't want to get into how medically guilt can affect you, but shame for sure. We're not doctors, but it's cancer.

I assumed all of you were doctors just by your manner how confident we've seen it just by the fact that you're wearing a t-shirt that says chillin vaughn yeah um one of my favorite pokemon it is one of his favorite and favorites you would be concerned if your doctor was wearing that i wouldn't i'd be at ease i wouldn't be confident um no so shame shame what it does is it drags you down and it makes you less than you are you carry that round and then you are in a situation where you want to speak up because something's unjust unfair or unequal in some way for yourself or for somebody else you think you might think well actually it's all right for me

but there are you know hold on how are there any white women on this project? And this project is also going to affect indigenous women in this country. I need to speak up because I know someone who'd be brilliant in this room right now. If you carry shame and you think, I'm not actually that great a feminist, or I'm not actually that good an activist, or I'm not really very good at changing the world, because you're holding on to all of this stuff, you are less likely to speak up when it actually matters. So that's why I think we need to accept that we don't have to be perfect to be a force for meaningful change because anyone who reckons they're doing it all the time, they're thinking all the right thoughts,

they're saying all the right things, they're doing all the right things, they're not. That's a lie. That's made up. Nobody is Instagram perfect all of the time. No, I'm trying to think of an example Of when I've been a bad feminist I mean I've got a very massive Boyfriend

And I weaponise my incompetence Daily You have a very massive boyfriend I like to try to tell all guests that come in the studio About how massive your boyfriend is Yeah So you weaponise your femininity So it's sort of like I'm a feminist

but not when it's time to put the business out but like when I'm like I don't want to do that I'll just you know turn into a bad feminist for a short period of time

for a short period of time for someone to do something for me yeah give me tickles and gifts you know like how bad is that I'm a feminist

but not when there's a mouse in the house is what you're saying no mouse I can handle but if there's a M-O-'s a mouse in the house Is what you're saying Mouse I can handle but if there's a M-O-T-H in the house I'm no longer Wow you have to spell it

She's actually come a long way She didn't even used to be able to spell it I have phobias like that but I'm not saying them on the radio No well done She foolishly said it once And it's been haunting her ever since I would not because people like to wind you up they do things oh my god you know she loved i heard that she hates

tap water and then they'll say oh let's do a funny bit with her where we give her nothing but tap water like that's not funny it was sprayed at her yeah yeah so as part of the festival you're doing a live podcast recording that's right uh the guilty feminist has always been live since day one because we wanted to do stand-up comedy. And I sort of think, you know, you don't really know what's funny or interesting unless there's an audience there giving you that feedback. Yes.

So I really like doing it live in front of an audience. So day one, in December 2015 was our first show. We did it in front of a live audience. We had 30 people in the audience. I knew half of them by name. Yes. And that's how most live audiences go these days. Yeah, that's how it started. But then the next show we had 30 people in the audience i knew half of them by name yes and uh that's how most live audiences go these days that's how it started but then the next show we

had 200 people the next show we had 500 people and then by 2019 we were playing the royal abbot hall we played the palladium uh sydney opera house wellington arena and i will say the wellington arena was maybe my favorite show we've ever done we did that february 2020 it was i thought well this show is absolutely peaking we've there's the only way is up i thought march 2020 he landed back in london and then was not allowed to leave my house legally for the next two years uh so that was a tough time because we had to do it all via zoom and you know to go from the wellington arena to zoom i've got to say was a come down and a half, baby. But honestly, there's something about Wellington and the Guilty Film.

It's the first time we ever went there. We'd never been there, so we didn't think anybody would really know who we were or anything. My friend Grace Petrie, she's a queer protest folk singer and she's a lot more fun than she sounds. You've got the trill there. She is so funny. She is so funny. She is so funny and she is such a brilliant and inspirational singer.

She does her own stuff and we always cover I Will Survive at the end. She gets everyone dancing. She's so wonderful. And she and I walked down the street in Wellington. Neither of us ever had been there. We couldn't get down the street for people stopping us because they loved the podcast there so much. Wow, that's awesome.

Yeah, we went into a lesbian bar and they just said, your money's no good here. And they just gave us free drinks. And I was like, this is what, we just love Wellington so damn much. This is Hayley's dream when you walk into a bar and

Especially a lesbian bar. You were probably trying to pay with British pounds and they're like, that's no good here. And you took up a massive tab and then just put it off. Yeah, how pissed were you? I think that's very much,

when they said your money's no good here, we assumed we were famous. And it turns out, we just stole their drinks. No, they were just so lovely. And I feel like that show at the Wellington Arena kept me going through lockdown because we used to listen to it all the time to go, remember when? Because they were just, what I will say is New Zealanders

know how to bring a rock concert to a podcast recording. Yeah. They just are so, and I think some of it, same in Australia, but some of it is because we've flown 24 hours and they're recording for the flight. I was going to say, because we often just feel grateful you haven't forgotten us. They're just like, you've flown 24 hours.

Thank you for coming. But I genuinely do feel a connection to New Zealand audiences. And that show in Wellington, we used to send it, because I was taking video from the stage. I used to send Grace video of this. I remember sitting on that stage. I was with the incredible Cal Wilson, who so tragically we lost last year.

So surprising and shocking. And I've never done a show in New Zealand without Cal before. So I'm already feeling like crying just talking about doing shows without Cal. Luckily, Michelle Acourt, who was one of Cal's best mates, is stepping into the breach. Another hilarious woman. Oh my God, she's amazing. And so she and I are going to co-host all of the shows. But I would love it if all of the Guilt Feminist fans would come out because it is the first time I've done it without Cal and I'm going to need you. Need some support. So you're doing Christchurch, Auckland and Wellington. That's right. Christchurch

on the 11th of May at the Aurora Centre, Auckland at the Bruce Mason Centre on the 14th of May and Wellington at the Opera House on the 15th of May. And Wellington is, I just, it just feels so, I want to be back there because of everything that I just said. But I love, God, we've had some amazing shows in Auckland and Christchurch too. Auckland was the first place we went and we've been to Auckland

more than anywhere else. You can't forget Auckland or get quite grumpy. Yes, but I really, really do love the, just the, I thought actually we were at the Isaac, Royal Isaac Theatre theater but apparently it's the aurora center yeah okay okay um well if you turn up to the aurora center for the crash at show and and you're not there she's at the isaac she's lost no just go to guiltyfeminist.com click on live shows yeah and it will direct you to the right place um tickets we have got tickets at all levels if you can afford the top price ones please buy them because it is expensive to tour but

there is no there is low as 39 so um get some get some tickets because it'll recharge your batteries if you're someone sometimes it's really easy to think i can't change the world i'm just a drop in the ocean what can i do but do you know what I've discovered is that a thousand drops makes a wave. And together we can make waves in all these different cities. And a lot of waves make an ocean. And that is all we have right now. The world feels like an unfair, unjust, really scary place at times. But we are the only ones who can change it.

People coming together is all that has ever changed the world. If you're someone who thinks, I just feel like my batteries are low, this is a place to recharge. It's a place of joy, connection, just community. We feel like an army together. Music. I love that. We have indigenous performance poets.

We have rousing music. We have local feminists in every single one of your cities who are going to tell us what they're doing locally and what you can connect with. And we have comedy. So you feel you can kind of rise into the whole thing. If you're somebody who needs your gas in your tank, this is the place to come.

You'll meet people in the interval you can do things with. If you're someone who thinks I can't change the world, come along and look out because by the time you leave, you will feel differently. I think we need to get Deborah one of our inspirational calendars, actually. We're actually putting a few quotes that we come up with, inspirational quotes into a calendar by the end of the year.

And they've all got horses behind them. And I feel like a thousand drops makes a wave. It should be on there. It's beautiful. How long are your shows? Why are you shows? Why? Are you thinking? No, you just.

No, well, you said interval. And then you just had so much crammed in. I was like, how are we over a couple of days? Listen, you get your money's worth, babe. Yeah. Doors get locked. You can't go anywhere. Absolutely.

Absolutely. No, I think the first act is usually about an hour and the second act is usually like 40 minutes. That's how we like it. But you know, you've booked a babysitter or you've got, No, I think the first act is usually about an hour and the second act is usually like 40 minutes. That's how we like it. But you know, you've booked a babysitter or you've found parking. You want to get your money's worth. Absolutely.

I don't want to come out for nothing. Come out and like, oh, 40 minutes and it's over. I found a park and it was long enough. Debra, thank you so much. Guiltyfeminist.com. Go to live shows, book the tickets and best of luck. Please come and support us because we need you and i'm gonna need you without cal and i feel like i've got a lockup

with my picture my husband gave it to me it's my picture and cal's picture in it and one of her pegs because we always had this joke and it started in new zealand this joke um that her she said i'm a feminist but my side quest is to find the perfect clothes peg. And we've actually debated this on this very radio show, The Best Peg. Well, she, people used to bring her pegs at the show and she ended up finding the best peg. And her husband gave me one of her, the peg that she found. What type is it? What style? Well, I'm glad you've asked.

It's like a bulldog. I've got it with me, actually. It's like a bulldog clip. A bulldog clip? Yeah, it's like a bulldog clip I've got it with me, actually. It's like a bulldog clip. A bulldog clip? Yeah, it's like a bulldog clip. And it's a rainbow colour. We went the, you know, the wooden ones that you shove down, it's a no-no.

No. But we went the fluoro hinged V-shaped ones were number one. Yes, they're the one. They're the one. Are they New Zealand? They're New Zealand pegs. They're New Zealand pegs. Yeah, New Zealand, mate.

So I have got that peg, which is deep down in my bag now. I can't quite reach it. But I've got that peg and it's going to be on the desk with us every single night. Buy a couple of bags at the supermarket while you're here. Take them home. This is one that Cal owned. Well, you can name that one as Cal's peg, but just for your general washing. I love that you think in London we can peg washing on a night.

Well, of course you can. It's raining the whole time. You need a strong peg because when it gets wet, it gets very heavy and then the wind whips through and you've just got projectiles. We don't hang it outside. We hang it indoors on a little rack or on radiators. Oh, but I use pegs indoors as well.

Yes, he does. He pegs his indoors even though there's no wind in there. He's a psychopath. I know. You use indoor pegs. On my clothes, yeah, because I hang my t-shirt. I literally don't own a peg except Carl's one. He has a naughty cat

And the cat swipes the washing Oh I have three cats who might do that He's been sure they're well disciplined The sort of vibe The sort of vibe of the peg No We're well off Deborah thank you so much

Good luck with the shows Thank you so much Please come Fletch, Vaughan and Hayley And if you'd like to come and see what come Fletch, Vaughn and Hayley and if you'd like to come and see what especially Fletch and Vaughn make of it come and sit around them

at the Auckland shows yes and just watch them watch them surround us watch Vaughn try and get out early no no no I didn't ask the length of it

I was just impressed with how much you fit into a show if he even turned up you're lucky you got him out of the house I'm a house cat. He's in his chilling shirt. He's going to come.

He's going to come. I feel strongly. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me.